Teddy!!! ☺ ☺

Teddy!

Shit. Shit! SHIT! Norman used to be an island of sanity in the sea of redneck crazy 20 some years ago. It was open and tolerant and welcomed everyone. Now it has become this. SHIT!! I really did leave at the right time.

What a tragedy and the last 2 weeks have been awful.
It does have to stop and we need to get angry and in the bigots faces every day.

How is it that this culture allows these people in Norman (and apparently everywhere) to show their faces in public after perpetrating this villainy?
Where did we go?

‘It Gets Better’ is great outreach.

I’m not sure it does get better. From my perspective, it seems to be getting worse, both for me personally and my community as a whole. We have to lay some of the blame at the feet of our “fierce advocate”, who has been fierce only in his haste to get away from his promises to us.

Hey there Peninsula Man!

Observe the toxic face of christianists, who rabidly infect Oklahoma and Texas and so many other bastians of ignorance. Save the last few nukes for these places, make them think they are undergoing their stupid end of times.

Yes, you did. The full report sounds absolutely awful, if you want to click through for the really bad news. People getting up at the meeting saying they moved to Norman because they were sure they’d never be faced with anyone wanting to honor gays.

And you straight parents with straight kids? Listen up. Your kids are getting bullied, too — if they aren’t complicit with the bullies.

We just had this conversation tonight while the 12-year-old was working on a “core democratic values” project for his American Government class. He needed a graphic or photo representing the concept of equality. Of course we had plenty of lovely graphics from protests against Prop 8 and DOMA and DADT, but he and his 16-year-old sister told me he didn’t dare use them or he’d be harassed by his classmates for doing so. (And this is the second time in a week I’ve heard about this kind of bullying…)

Yeah. That’s how fucking ugly far too many straight kids are to other kids — even those who aren’t gay, who are merely trying to show their own tolerance and understanding of this core democratic, American value.

I can’t even imagine what these little monsters do to gay kids; it horrifies me. And I am certain it starts at home; they didn’t just get this hate and ignorance and intolerance out of thin air.

In the mean time I’ve asked my kids to understand that if it’s this bad for them, it’s worse for gay kids, and that if their gay friends need someplace to go, they are welcome here. It will get better. We will make it better.

It seems like there’s a tremendous number just recently, but I wonder if parents are emboldened by activism to come clean and tell about their kids, where they wouldn’t have done so before. Also, a return to school might yield a spike.

I think we simply must live the best we can, and challenge bigotry whenever we see or hear its ugly face. This can be hard. But it it for the best.

My niece and her family live in Norman and she is a complete homophobe. She has never discussed it with me but I hear reports from other family members. I think it is somehow related to their conservative church. She’s smart too, it is disappointing because I know she should be capable of better.

Anyway, I’m not saying she is representative of the Norman population but I don’t think she is atypical.

Much blame goes to Senate leaders, and the new chief of the Marines, for his testimony last week that he opposes repeal of DADT. What kind of people are unworthy to die in our empire’s wars?

If we must, okay, but let’s give our good progressive friends plenty of good warning. I know wonderful people who live in those places, even though I’d never go there myself.

Thanks, Teddy!

There’s no place for hate in a civil society.

This is the collateral damage that comes from hate boiling over – precious lives lost – because they felt so viciously excluded that they took their own lives to get away.

Stop the mad-ness…

When I left there, gays and lesbians would come there from all over the state because they thought maybe it was a place where someday they might actually honor them. I often want to cry when I see what has happened to my home state. The rest of the time I just smile because I got out.

Wow, that’s horrifying.

I know parents have to pick your battles, but that screams out for an intervention with the teacher or PTA. Seriously, if straight kids can’t stand up for tolerance by showing symbols of equality, something is really wrong at school.

The stupid, it burns…

Carl Paladino Says Homosexuality Not a ‘Successful Option’

I fear that she is all too likely typical of far too many there. The whole goddamned state has gone stark raving mad over the past 20 years. I have no idea what happened. It was never a center of enlightenment, but it was nowhere nearly this bad when I was there.

Kind of a redneck Austin, then?

i can’t find an everyone but the gay exception in this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

People listen to their leaders, and learn from them.

I mean, if they are listening to Inhofe and Coburn, what can they be learning?

The same could be said, with far more accuracy, of being a conservative.

Wow. Rough.

Bill Donohue, Torquamada of the Catholic League, has an opinion, if anyone cares:

All of these deaths are tragic, but it is factually wrong to say that all were the result of anti-gay bullying. Worse, it is libelous to suggest that because Christianity (and Judaism and Islam) is opposed to homosexuality that somehow it should be held responsible for whatever bullying did go on. Indeed, to suggest culpability is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to stifle religious speech.

Oklahoma’s answer to Austin. It is where the University of Oklahoma is. It is (or was) the state’s “liberal” university. Legislature always kind of hated us because of that.

…19-year-old Zach Harrington took his own life at his family’s home in Norman.

What a tragic loss to Society, an aware individual exercises his civic rights..! 8-(

Ignorance is truly an ugly affair…! 8-(

Oklahoma went for McCain by over 30 points in ’08, widest margin in the country. Talk about yer dubious distinctions.

Just you wait for the rain…+

Yeah, but it comes from somewhere else, because they elected those fuckers in the first place. Hell, we used to elect real liberals to the Senate and Congress.

I really appreciate y’all’s indulgence in allowing me another bite at this apple, after Friday. It just seems like it’s not gonna stop unless we make an extraordinary effort. Plus I thought both of these contributions to the project were valuable. Buck Angel, for those who don’t know of him, is a transgender (FTM) porn star with quite a following and career for himself.

We had a rainy day yesterday — real rain, not that “public relations” rain Portlanders go on and on about to prevent over-inmigration. Then this morning was drizzly, but cleared up after noontime to be a shiny sunny reflect-y kind of day in the trees in the neighborhood.

Lots of people used the break in the rain to do grocery shopping, I noticed.

Weren’t Harold and LaDonna Hughes from Oklahoma?

I pity the poor persecuted Christian minority in this country…

People like Donohue, Gallagher, Limbaugh, Beck, Phelps, Dobson and Perkins, to name just a very few, all share some blame in this too. They are the ones who have mainstreamed this kind of hatred. And let’s not forget the self loathing closet cases and the “ex gays” that do an even more insidious type of harm.

Bill Donahue can rot in a fiery pit in the deepest depths of his hell. The
Rabbi Yeshua never said one word about homosexuality, though it had to be fairly common in a Roman province with a lot of Greeks in residence. Also never once mentioned abortion. He did speak at great length about forgiveness and tolerance and letting those without sin cast the first stone. He also hammered on taking care of the poor and that the rich would all burn in hell.

The only state in the union where not one single county went for Obama.

David E has the video of the entire meeting linked up at his Fablog if anyone’s moved to go watch it.

I live in an area which identifies as 70% Republican. There’s not much the school board will do except tell me they are trying hard to encourage tolerance and are doing what they can with limited time and resources to stop bullying.

Last weekend started well; my daughter went to a dance as another girl’s escort (they don’t have boyfriends and didn’t feel they should miss the dance for it — good for them, I couldn’t do that when I was her age). The other girl spent the evening dancing with a openly gay classmate, and my daughter spent most of the evening dancing with a friend she says is “gender confused” (hasn’t sorted out which if any direction they want to go). The other girl was teased and harassed by straight classmates because of her dance partner; my daughter hasn’t said whether she’s gotten any garbage, but I know she’s strong enough to tell them to beat it. What must their dance partners be going through every day?

And the overwhelming majority of parents are completely clueless about this, in spite of the fact a thirteen-year-old hung himself this summer because of bullying. Having to break that news to my son and watch his crestfallen face was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.

Oh yeah but it has just begun. My oldest have been up there for 30+ years and the moisture over that time has been growing mushrooms in their houses..

Hung around with twelve other guys and an emancipated woman? I bet he had LOTS to say — favorably — about homosexuality; it just never got recorded much later on when the legacy was being buffed.

Fred and LaDonna Harris :D

evenin’ all

Good for your daughter and her friend! Tell them both they have a late-middle-aged male admirer on the West Coast, please. And my condolences to you and your son on his loss. It’s just so hard, and unfair, and wrong.

Yes, exactly. Hughes was from Iowa.

Do you mean Fred and LaDonna Harris? They were, as was Carl Albert.

They share a LOT of the blame in this.

When I was in junior high and high school any weak and/or disenfranchised kid was taunted as “gay.” It was always the first line of attack. It was a long time ago and not having kids of my own I have no idea how much the environment might have changed but I imagine anyone who stands apart from the herd still runs the risk of being tormented.

Heh. If she decides she wants to take a closer look at that college near you trying to recruit her, I may tell her to look up Uncle Teddy.

A lot of it where I grew up as well. It would appear that it is even worse now. Back then we didn’t really even know what gay was.

I’m never willing to write off an entire state or region because I know there are decent, fair-minded people living everywhere. Must be a lot more frustrating in some places, though.

It hasn’t changed much at all. My daughter’s favorite movie is The Breakfast Club; the themes and the personalities and the stereotypes that John Hughes captured in that film 25 years ago still resonate with her because they’re still all the Jock, the Brain, the Criminal, the Princess and the Kook.

I try not to and I know that there are some decent people there, but it gets increasingly difficult not to just say fuck it.

teddy, thank you, thank you, thank you. My heart has been aching all week about these tragic deaths. Don’t let up on this.

Then there are those of us who were the kooky brainy spaz.

Thusly.

Just the kooky stoner spaz in my case.

Yeah, except Montana isn’t really Jesusland. Lots of unaffiliated folks up here.

I was a really smart kid, a stoner (before it was cool to be one), and I have Tourettes. Let us just say I try as much as possible to forget high school and how my nose got broken twice.

That was what Hughes was getting at; while the principal might see them as a specific stereotypes, all of them were a brain, an athlete, a basket case, a princess and a criminal. They all had something in common.

Just as we all do here; you’ll find most of us are kooky brainy spazoids to some degree.

On the subject of jocks I’ve always questioned the wisdom of allowing kids to risk debilitating, possibly life-threatening injuries playing football. On the other hand, maybe it’s a good idea to let the big dumb kids run off some of their aggression outside. Probably doesn’t help though, maybe even makes them more aggressive than they might have been.

I’m willing to let them be on the good side.

Certainly did at my school.

Was there ever a shorter Speaker than Carl Albert, do you think?

amen ratty. by no means am I excusing institutionalized hate as it spews from Churches, Paladino, Inhoffe, whatever

but fitting in and conformity is EVERYTHING to teens – it could just as easily be some non fundamentalist dem kid sensing “different” about another and openly hate out of fear for their own conformity

we used to call it conciousness raising and it needs to begin anew – at home, school, and communities

We should talk about that.

There’s more rigorous places to matriculate, but few of them have such an outstanding policy as giving grades but not disclosing them.

Most of them are wishy-washy Christians who just don’t want to commit to a particular denomination or go to church regular.

I won’t.

Thanks for the feedback. You’ll hear lots more from me on this.

I tried to fly under the radar as much as possible. Having a sadistic older brother at home provided good early training in the art of invisibility.

Not sure, but he was awfully damned good at the job. Was always odd seeing him on national TV and then on the local news. In Washington he spoke like a Rhodes scholar, which he was. Back home in Oklahoma, he talked like a redneck boy from Bugtusle, Ok, which he also was. Damned smart politician.

If gay men and women had finally been allowed to serve openly perhaps, just perhaps, that little bit of light would have been bright enough to stop some of these these suicides. Are you listening now Obama?

I only just learned about your Tourettes when you mentioned it on the blog recently; now that you’ve mentioned it again, can I ask? How does that intersect with your teaching in the classroom? I’m only familiar with cartoon-Tourettes from late-night comedy and Law-and-Order episodes, I’m afraid.

Is it controlled by medication? How do your student react?

If you’d rather not, that’s cool; I ask because you’ve mentioned it twice, and my curiosity got the better of my good manners. Also, it’s my thread.

That was my problem, I was the oldest child.

Patrick has a new theory that ‘fundamentalist Christian’ is in fact an oxymoron; that the forgiveness, understanding, and mercy required by Jesus cannot allow for a fundamentalist viewpoint.

That’s quite interesting, hadn’t even thought about that facet. Have been just focused on the grades, getting her through two AP classes and her Int’l Baccalaureate classes, and making sure she’s got as many options as possible. We’ll be looking at schools with good biology/bio-engineering/pre-med programs for the next six months, will start applying next summer.

Is the herd mentality learned behavior or is it instinctive? Perhaps a bit from column A and a bit from column B. Evolution would have favored banding together to improve survivability but why the reflexive hatred of outsiders? Competition for resources, I suppose.

I suspect our resident anthropologist has a more enlightened perspective.:)

how is this WH’s silence on the hate that is driving these suicides any different than Reagan’s refusal to say the word AIDS ?

Considering how few statements in the New Testament are attributed directly to Jesus it amazes me how easy self-professed believers find it to discard the ones which are inconvenient. The Sermon on the Mount, the one instance in which he purportedly spelled things out with reasonable clarity, expressing sentiments such as, “-judge not, lest ye be judged,” is routinely ignored.

While not the resident anthropologist, it’s possible it’s the banding process and competition for resources.

It could be due to different cultural identification, too, which has different roles for individuals.

In Hawaiian culture, gays were often the keepers of culture; without them much of what we know of the undocumented Hawaiian culture like hula would have been lost. In contemporary American culture there’s not a more formal acknowledgment of this need, let alone a formal comprehension that every individual can and should have an important place in society. We’ve become the disposable society in too many ways — except for those snowflake babies, don’t you know.

Because comparisons of Obama to Reagan are unfair to the comparatively liberal 40th president.

Mind you, I am no fan of either.

Yes, I recall his hometown now that you mention it.

Friend of mine, long ago, was a bioscientist, quite successful in the gene industry, who got her start at that school.

Excellent parallel, and one I hadn’t thought of at all, until now.

I do not mind talking about it. The symptoms tend to fade as you age and these days I don’t generally have much if any obvious symptoms (they do show up when I am tired or stressed out). When I was younger I had fairly sever symptoms and high school was hell.

Tourettes manifests in a variety of ways and those tend to change over time. When I was younger, it was mostly muscle twitches and tics (often quite pronounced). I never had much of the vocal tics then, though I have more of them now, but they are subtle and do not attract attention. For the record (it is something of a pet peeve, though I try not to make a big deal out of it), only about 10% of those with Tourettes have copralalia (involuntary swearing and obscenities) and I never have.

There are also a wide array of related conditions associated with Tourettes in addition to the tics. ADHD, OCD, and emotional votility (all of which have and to some extent still do affect me). Had a hell of a temper when I was younger, because our emotional regulator does not work too well and our emotions can spiral out of control. Lots of depression as well over the years.

The disease, which is hereditary, tends to show up (i.e., there are obvious tic symptoms) around puberty. The more obvious symptoms then tend to fade, usually in your late twenties or early thirties, though I was in my early-mid 40s before they really faded. Nobody really knows what causes it, other than it is genetic, or how to treat it, though they are getting better at that.

There are medications used to treat it now, but they only abate the symptoms and I find the side effects (they make me fuzzy headed) unacceptable. I was not formally diagnosed until I was in my 20s though I have been manifesting since I was 11. Back in the early days they tried barbiturates and anti-psychotics like thorazine, which only made me a zombie and did little for the symptoms. I have not really taken anything for it since I left home.

Hope that answers some of your questions. I would be happy to answer any others anyone has.

I was at the funeral of a relative who was a priest. I went over to my aunt (the one who likes Matt Drudge) while she was talking to three priests.
“She introduced me to the three priests as her nephew from San Francisco, “who’s not gay” she said. I almost said, “Not that there is anything wrong with that.” Then as she told me the names of the three priests I noticed that the one with the stylish glasses, 80 dollar haircut and neatly trimmed facial hair. He was wearing an elegant bracelet.

I’ve lived in SF for over 20 years. I don’t have a perfect ability to pick out gay people, but I’m not blind. It occurred to me that 1 of those three priests were gay. My aunt might not have cared just as long as he followed the church rules on being a gay priest which I believe can be boiled down to , “You can be a dog, but don’t bark.”

I still wish I had said, “Not that there is anything wrong with that.” in front of them. But hey, it was a funeral.

“Fundamentalist Christians” are, for the most part, objectively anti-Christian as they reject all of the central teachings of the Rabbi Yeshua.

As humans, we are social animals and there is a need to fit in and belong (which also manifests itself in how we rebel).

And the numerous cases of him saying that the rich are going to hell.

Which school are we talking about? There are a number of good ones in the area.

Thank you for discussing it here.

I’m certain those portions will be omitted when the newly discovered Ayn Rand edition of the Bible is finally published.

Time for this tired anthropoid to call it a night. Thanks to Teddy. Splendid evening to all.

Nighters.

um, yeah — I’m gonna leave that up to Rayne to disclose, otherwise we’ll just leave it at ‘one of the number of good schools around here,” since it’s her kid we’re talking about….

“Auntie, why are you cutting into my social life here at the funeral?” with a broad wink at the well-groomed priest would have been one way to handle it.

Hmmm. I have a pretty visceral reaction to this. Trying to formulate a coherent and transmittable opinion.

Sounds reasonable.

‘night ratty

ROTFLMAO!

“Blessed are the cheese makers?” that one?

I’ve studied the bible with a Ph.D in homiletics at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. She is gay. I attended a meeting of the “Jesus Seminar” who put out a book on the “red letter verses” of the bible, the text most likely to be actually things that Jesus said. There are only a few. The parables of the Prodigal son is one, the good Samaritan is another. You find out that the early church put words in Jesus’ mouth. The holy video recorder wasn’t working at the time, so we don’t have an exact record to work from.

The nasty things that are attributed to Jesus aren’t from him. The famous person who also noticed this in American History? Thomas Jefferson. He did his own textual analysis and split out the words that were inconsistent from Jesus to “Jesus”. He physically cut out the “diamonds” from the dung heap and made his own bible called the Jefferson Bible. Until recently a copy was given to each new President. And of course what is interesting is that what Jefferson picked out as authentic sayings of Jesus in the Bible was similar to what the scholars of the Jesus seminar picked out.

All of this is discussed in a great book by Stephen Mitchell THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS, New Translation and Guide to his Essential Teaching for Believers and Unbelievers

Where does one sign up…? ;-)

I’ve done it before…

We’re going to keep that info inside the fenceline for now. ;-)

Besides, I suspect that we may have some other issues to deal with that might encourage looking at a first-year school closer to home. We haven’t worked this all out yet, still a lot up in the air. I’ll be sure to ping you when we get closer to looking at west coast schools, though.

Don’t really think it is the kind of thing one wants to do voluntarily.

I understand, but if you decide you would like an “insider’s” view, I would be happy to advise. Choosing the right college is really an important decision and there really is no rigid formula that works for everyone.

I was pretty sure about the copralalia, although it’s a horrible shame the disease is defined this way in popular culture. Must make diagnosis, or acceptance of diagnosis, very difficult.

I think the fundamental premise for both Testaments is set forth in Genesis. Adam and Eve are punished for partaking of the fruit from the “Tree of Knowledge.” The subtext is, “Don’t ask questions, if you’d kept your fucking mouth shut we’d still be in paradise.”

Not certain the above was pertinent, my mental faculties being pretty much reduced to white noise at this point.

Greatly appreciated. This is the best part of a community like this, lots of helpful resources.

Yeah. I am not sure how they do it these days. I was in graduate school before I encountered a doctor who even knew what it was. I have had probably every brain/neurological test known to man (at least in the late 60s).

“Don’t ask questions, if you’d kept your fucking mouth shut we’d still be in paradise.”

Yes, even…! Aloha, rf…! ;-)

It Gets Better is one of those omg, why didn’t we think of this already ! deals

and Teddy, you are right – the beauty of this incredible outreach is the tribal elders welcoming the youth to their futures without any interference

now I have a damn Greater Tuna bit formulating in my head -
the interwebs are the devil !

Yep. I really want to see students succeed and getting the right match between student and school is an important part of that. Academics are an important consideration, but not the only one and, especially at the BA level, students often can get an excellent education at less prestigious schools. Fortunately, there are usually several “right choices” available.

Hey DrDick! What a night for you. I do admire you so. Hey, how about Cassie, hey?

I should probably toddle off as well. Have to be presentable in the morning (no classes, so I do not actually have to be coherent). Take care all.

Hey Christine! Just on my way out, but yeah, I am totally stoked by Cassie getting into Princeton. Gives you a little faith in the world.

the interwebs are the devil !

*heh* More than ya think, too…!

g’nite doctor (pause) dick

Indeed! It really does make me feel just a bit better about our world.

Yeah, this project has me thinking a lot, too, about ways to get around the filters in our system. It’s cracked open my own head.

I’m wondering how to set up a local outreach program which is low-key and can act as an emotional safety net; may have to put my head together with some of my LGBT friends and brainstorm.

It gets better..IF:

You leave your abusive situation, strike out on your own and tell them all to go to hell.

This may take you a while, but do it.

The truth is kid, you didn’t ask for it, but all kinds of people are going to shit on you. And keep shitting on you. What you need is armor.

The kind of armor that comes from real friends, real allies. And it’s going to take you a while to sort those people out.

You will make mistakes. And you will learn from them.

But don’t give ONE ASSHOLE the satisfaction of another dead gay kid. Just don’t do it. There’s one good reason to put up with all the crap now and in the future.

The Assholes Are Wrong – You Are OK. IN fact, you’re better than OK. You know why?

You have a special place in the world, seeing it differently than the 90% of privileged people who have NO IDEA of their privileged place in the world.

So everything you do, everything you’ll learn, every love you’ll have will be sweeter for the greater price you are forced to pay.

You can only know this in the years ahead of you, not the years behind you.

So get these years, take these years, hold these years, fiercely.

You’ll find that those around you who have done the same, are the same people who will be your friends, will be the same people who are not shallow empty husks of humans, just rummaging through the motions of life.

From your outside status of living a long life, you will see the true joy of living, instead of merely existing as so many do.

And that is the best revenge; living well in the best sense of it.

I have a little scar over my right eye, from a gay bashing. And from time, I’ll catch a glimpse of it when I’m shaving and just burst into tears. Sometimes it’s from grief, disbelief of “How could they hate me so?” and sometimes it’s been from pride.

I am still fucking here, and bring it on.

That, as we editor types say, is a post.

Teddy, thanks for posting this. I have two gay friends who killed themselves – one 30 years ago in a rural town in Texas, and another a few years ago who grew up here in the Bay Area, bastion of gay pride, and yet he jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. I like to think that the “It Gets Better” project might have made a difference. Dan Savage’s statement that successful gay role models are not invited to talk to junior high and high school students really resonated with me – it was kind of a “duh” moment where you realize how provincial and isolated high school can still be. This outreach is so important.

Hopefully, Cassie will be contributing her work alongside, this Princeton Soph…! ;-)

Not knowing the original’s language or received text, I can’t disagree with its being called the ‘Tree of Knowledge’. The common English translations I know call it the ‘tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ (the other of two trees there is translated as the ‘tree of life’). It’s anyone’s guess what’s meant by ‘good’, ‘evil’, and ‘life’.

What a moving and passionate response, Kelly. Here is another.

Kelly,
So glad to have you here, that’s all I can say. AND, you make me laugh! Kisses.

the stuff of nightmares – but appeciate the link, esp the opportunity to google the 2008 Report debunking it’s utility

CTuttle is upstairs!
Late, Late Night FDL: The Joker

oh my god, Kelly Canfield

Magnificent, sir — have you thought about a video for the project, with just these words? It’s inspirational. Really, truly.

I am now.

I just typedbyblurting. Then snagged my merlot and went outside. Looked at the house, Belch sleeping downstairs.

Sometimes, shit is just too much.

I know, honey.

I know.

It needs to stop, this shit. It simply needs to stop.

What do you want to bet that a longitudinal study of school bullies would show them growing up to be self-described conservatives, Republicans, teabaggers, Glenn Beck followers, “authoritarian personalities,” etc?

The It Gets Better program is an intervention for gay kids (although, as you point out, you don’t have to be gay to be the recipient of this sort of crap); I wonder if it’s possible to intervene for the bullies themselves; by school age, are they already doomed to be life-long assholes?