To bolster their case that the Obama White House didn’t have much influence over the health care bill, defenders of the administration also made this rather weird argument: that Bush/Cheney had a hard time getting their agenda through Congress.
At the time, I argued the opposite, that in fact, Bush pretty much had his way with Congress during his first term, ramming through the biggest tax cuts in twenty years via reconciliation and taking us into Baghdad with absolutely no moderate Republican opposition.
Here’s Ezra Klein’s response to that post.
I’m not sure what good it does for progressives to delude themselves about Bush’s success in passing pure domestic policy initiatives that easily overcame the opposition of Republican moderates, but the reality is that he saw his initiatives watered down at every turn. [...]
There’s a sort of comfort in believing that George W. Bush got everything he wanted, because it suggests that if liberals could only emulate his tactics, they too could get everything they want.
That was written on September 9, 2009, two months after we now know that Obama had gotten exactly the bill he wanted through backroom deals with hospital lobbyists.
Who was deluding themselves?



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Evidently I was deluded. I thought for sure that the President meant what he said about PO. Come to find out it was the very first item tossed.
I don’t get it – are you saying that Obama DIDN’T want the public option? I agree that he didn’t fight for it – but he did want it.
With a public option we would not have had a health care bill. Next item after the next election is to put that Public Option back in.
No one that I know is particularly advocating for “emulating” anything about Bush, but Klein persists in his fabricated delusion that somehow Bush was a wussy-pussy who hardly got anything ever that he “wanted,” whilst Obama is da man, who brought so much sugar to the progressives.
Pull da other one, Ezra. I ain’t buying your revisionist history, nor your revisionist present. I believe it’s called propoganda amongst other things, and I prefer to stick with fact, not fiction, thanks very much.
http://www.correntewire.com/interview_paul_street_author_%E2%80%9C_empire%E2%80%99s_new_clothes%E2%80%9D_part_ii
Afternoon, BT. Although I have a visceral hatred for everything Bush stands for, I have to honestly say he was a more effective leader than Obama. This very professorial, above-it-all distance and willingness to just roll over is a pale shadow of what presidential leadership should be…when the opposition knows he won’t fight, they are further empowered, in the manner of bullies everywhere. Not being willing to fight for it is functionally equivalent to not wanting to do it, as the results are foreordained.
Delude yourselves twice? FOOLS! If you want at least a public option, you’d best Demand SINGLE-PAYER.
PO wasn’t the first thing tossed. FISA was the red flag, signalling the future tossing of everything else that was “promised.”
Link.
No… he just said he wanted the public option. If he had really wanted it, he would have fought for it.
That was when I knew it was all over.
Correct. Oh Bummah! did not want PO. He did not want to upset and go against his masters in InsurPharma and as for even thinking that he and his rather pathetic administration will try to get PO in the next Congress is pure and utter bull.
There is no “health care” reform in the joke of a bill signed by this president there are, however, massive payoffs to InsurPharma in the form of higher premiums, mandatory insurance and no re-importation of drugs.
Single payer, as edur, writes is the only way to go to ensure comprehensive health care reform and that is not something that will come along any time soon.
Based on what is coming to the surface now, your assumption that Obama and the right were on opposites sides of PO does not hold water.
Ditto.
Wow! And here I was calling it the rubber stamp congress….
Yeah that was just the first of his Big Lies. He is, without doubt, a bloody failure as pres. would Mccain be worse probably yes, but I am not so sure that McCain would have been able to continue and expand the police state with a Dem majority so maybe he would not have been worse.
Sorry…I should have been more clear. My statement about O’s willingness to fight was meant as a general statement on his style, not the PO specifically. I make no assumption that Obama wanted the PO….quite the opposite. My point is that not fighting for it is the same as not wanting it, and ergo, Obama did not want the PO.
It was pointed out in previous threads that the discussion about cutting SS would never be going on with an R in the White House.
Very true.
OT: Obama won’t sign the foreclosure bill.
Why do I get the weird feeling that that was the plan all along?
Uh BT I made jokes about Dems with no Stones or Spines during this same period a meme that has crossed party lines and even the GOP uses now.
Dem Mockery is universal.
It would take a blind pig or a gop weasel not to have seen what was going on during the cheney/bush regime.
I can’t read his mind, I can only judge him by his actions.
Understood, but too many folks are confusing style with substance. Obama has NO progressive sympathies. He is a worshipper of the Rockefeller/Kissinger ideal of empire, peasants be damned. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but that’s the deal.
The HCR catastrophe alone is enough reason to remove the Dems to teach them that if they want to hold power next time, they need to do what is for the people, not for their corporate friends.
Bush used signing statements to redefine legislation, as it applied to federal workers. He even attached them to legislation he himself supported. He stacked the government with corporate cronies who obviously despise government. And he had a fawning Republican congress whose legislation got zero vetoes from King George (albeit not without signing statements from the monarch).
That’s how he got his way, Mr. Klein. And you know it.
LMAO! It will “teach” them to be even more right wing than ever.
But…but…he *wanted* $1.6T in tax cuts and only got $1.3. Totally watered down!
[/Ezra]
Obama did not want the PO. Neither did most congressmen. Look, they passed the bill using reconciliation. At that point they did in fact have 51 votes for the PO if you believed what everyone was saying about it. But what diod they do? They pulled the PO from the bill they voted on. They could have easily passed the PO if they wanted to. They did not want to pass it and they lied from the get go.
Not to mention, he had Cheney to threaten anyone who didn’t fall in line. Somehow I get the impression legislators don’t fear Biden the way they did the dark Lord of the Sith.
At least the chimp knew how to swing for the fences, rather than try a squeeze bunt every. Single. At bat.
Yep, that was exactly PK’s point on O’s stim; 7th paragraph.
Squeeze plays are extremely aggressive.
Obama’s doing the equivalent of having his cleanup hitter bunt, down 5 runs, with no outs in the 1st.
Well said. Truly a more pernicious tyrant than the lunatic King George III the colonists broke away from.
So I make crappy baseball analogies. You got it.
LOL!
It’s so difficult these days for good people of wealth and dignity to hire properly documented workers when commoners expect us to pay those beastly taxes the same as they, the little people, do. Isn’t that right, Lou? Crumpets, anyone? /Ezra
You must be channeling Leona.
But there is an R in the White House, he just doesn’t call himself one.
“because it suggests that if liberals could only emulate his tactics. . .”
Liberals? Perhaps authoritarian Democrats but not liberals. Such emulation of tactics would compromise the very meaning of liberal.
Sometimes you want something to be so badly, you shut off reality. I’m a Phillies fan, but I confess I was flabbergasted when a caller on sports radio said the Phillys should have won last year’s World Series because “clearly the Phillies were the better team.” Hey, I wanted the Phillies to kick Yankee butt, too, but the caller and I must have watched a different Series because incontestably clearly the Yankees were the better team.
Klein is being obtuse, he really, really, really wants Obama to be the guy Klein needs him to be. I don’t know, does life work that way?
Neither did ANY Congressman (or -woman). Otherwise, someone would have submitted it.
I’m still trying to figure out if Carly is sufficiently dangerous to force me to vote for Boxer — at the moment, I’m leaning more toward “Public Option”.
I don’t think so.
Boxer has seniority and a lot of good committees. I’m going to forgive her for supporting Lieberman and vote for her. Carly would be terrible for Ca and I care very much about that.
Eleanor Clift wrote last year that the DC power crowd had discovered that Obama could be rolled.
The only thing Bush didn’t achieve was privatizing Social Security. That issue is radioactive for anyone. And I hope it remains so.
I am a Master of the Obvious as eCHAN likes to point out but the obvious never gets MSM coverage:)
It is the ultimate in revisionism to say that Bush didn’t have his way with Congress and saw the powerful stealth moderates within the Republican Party – whoever in the world they might have been – force him to compromise in a way that is at all similar to what we see now. No hint that he remembers a White House that gleefully passed legislation that had no input from the Ds because they didn’t need to talk with anyone besides a few blue dogs.
Powerful moderates within the Republican Party disappeared somewhere back in the 80s but then that was a bit before Ezra’s time.
And that was in his second term, after he pissed most of his capital away with The Eyerack.
Agree with your overall point, but the Republican moderates were all purged in the late 70′s, post-Watergate purge. Anyone perceived as having helped or at least cooperated in the takedown of Nixon was driven out.
Obama and Congress will raise the retirement age and cut benefits. It was critical that it not be done before the mid terms. It is likewise critical to do it immediately after the mid terms. Voters will have two years to forget their anger.
Third party candidates are the only ones worthy of a citizen’s vote.
BT you are here I’m I wrong about asking Jane to cover Glen Beck fair? Yes its not fair to ask an employee this question but in the end is the Lake different or am I wasting my time?
IOKIY not as scary as the Republican? Good luck with that. I doubt she’s moved by your forgiveness. Have you let her know of your displeasure? I hope so, or you’re giving her carte blanche to keep abusing you.
Back in the day, there were many who sought to make slavery more civilized, more humane; pragmatic incrementalism, anyone? They were successfully opposed by those who brooked no compromise with an abhorrent practice.
Way too many Dems these days remind me of the former.
Special Book Salon up with Bob Woodward’s Obama’s Wars hosted by Greg Mitchell
The myth of GOP controlling a majority against my people when the immigrant rights folks get bigger crowds and and the Lake don’t mention it like they did Macacca is interesting and sad(
I guess you’re forgiving her for opposing Prop. 19, too. Among other things.
You are the myth expert and the propaganda expert well my folks need help and this is up your alley.
Yesterday BT illustrates what a complete moron MattY is.
Today, he smacks Fred Hiatt’s cabana boy – Ezra Klein – around.
Little by little, Progs are starting to catch on that these overeducated Dunces are no friend of the working class, the peasants or the Left.
Look forward to Part 3 of the series… there are plenty of stooges still out there that need to be exposed.
Now, if you will all forget about this useless, meaningless corporate slogan “Public Option” and focus instead on rallying the troops behind Medicare for All or Universal Health Care that will be an even bigger accomplishment.
Ezra Klein is a useful
fooltool for the MSM to trot out to give the “liberal” perspective. He’s about as “liberal” as Obama – which is to say, not very.Stenographers of the PTB, keep it coming BT.
Bush got what he wanted at every turn by staking out the far right radical position hard and strong, sounding like he had gone mad so that Dems would negotiate downward and give him what he wanted. Isn’t that the way the game is played? (Leaving aside the pols craven desire and need for pork and K street that is.)
I happen to think that has been the Repug strategy since the beginning of time, and it works. They are constantly driving the narrative beyond the margins, only to come to settlement at the last minute. At least that was before Obama. Now the strategy is to just obstruct everything all the time. Their mission is to destroy and subvert. When nobody is left standing except the corporatists, their world will be complete, and completely corrupt.
And so it goes. Is this a great country or what?
This is a lot like Cheney’s secret meetings with oil execs. I vaguely remember being really pissed off about that. When will the people be allowed back “in the room?”
When O went off on an early, perhaps his first, Presidential vacation, and brought with him books by The Moustache of Understanding and nice enough-but-undoubtedly-Tory David McCulloush, I said to myself, doh, this is not my guy. (Of course, Summers, Geithner and Emannuel were kind of a tip off, too.)
Uh, the who and that what, now?
All last year I had been saying what the people who voted for Obama wanted him to do was to swing for the fences a few times, and at least if he went down swinging they’d know he was really trying to do what they sent him to do and so would keep backing him. And at the same time there would be more pressure on the GOP and Blue Dogs and their enablers to stop blocking what the people wanted. But instead he kept bunting on issue after issue and thus created the feeling in his supporters that he wasn’t really trying. But I think the key baseball analogy for them is that even if you don’t swing you can still strike out.
You have been writing about Glen Beck as much as anyone but Glen can’t get his protest numbers up to what the immigration rights protesters do failure to mention that fact despite repeated protests well what am I supoose to conclude?
Given your from Texas with a huge Mexican population what am I suppose to think?
I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with the argument that you’re quoting or not. But I really get pissed that people seem able to get away with the argument that, since Obama had not described his proposed public option in excruciating detail during the campaign, therefore it was ambiguous, and therefore it was a nullity and could legitimately be ignored by Obama and all other opponents of the P.O.
Not true. Obama gave us enough of a description of the P.O. that he should forever be held to it, and condemned for abandoning it and undermining it.
He said in campaign speech after campaign speech that he wanted a system where a person who was not satisfied with the options presented by the private insurers in his/her area could get health insurance through the government. No age limitations, no geographical limitations, no limitations as to the scope of coverage, no limitations as to pre-existing conditions — indeed, quite the contrary. And I don’t think he proposed any other ifs ands or buts. So, he was indeed promising open access to public insurance to anyone who didn’t like what the private insurers were offering.
Now, the revisionists want us to buy the nonsense that, since he had not given us a 50-page detailed proposal, whatever he did say was just too vague to hold him accountable. We cannot accept such an argument — it is logically and morally wrong.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Liberals? Perhaps authoritarian Democrats but not liberals. Such emulation of tactics would compromise the very meaning of liberal.
Well, Obama IS emulating Bush pretty well in many ways (civil-liberties etc).
But I would like to see a little more Bush-style determination from Obama in fighting for the good things he told us that he stood for. Of course, given that Obama seems more like a republican than a liberal, the real issue is probably that he has no interest in fighting for those things.
Still, if you are interested in seeing a more about the argument that Obama should be emulating some of Bush’s qualities, there is a youtube video by Bill Mahr. . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmruk69SIo (Obama needs a little George Bush)
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/41382
Reply
ThingsComeUndone October 7th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
107
Jane I don’t want to fight but yes I’m concerned why does Glen get the coverage even on FDL when his limp crowds are not even half our sides!
ThingsComeUndone October 7th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
119
Every Post about Glen on the Lake should mention just how small his crowds are the same as the Lake mentioned Maccaca at every chance we got Jane. I love you but I’m disappointed. True Love is telling the truth to someone we love the Lake unlike the GOP does not look the other way!
http://elections.firedoglake.com/2010/10/07/top-10-reasons-the-democrats/
Harsh way to find out you don’t read diaries comments or the source material they are pulled from but you dare write about Texas without doing this?
The Lake seems blind to even stuff that can tip elections the dems way anyone who goes to a protest is that much more likely to vote even if 20% of the protesters are from out of state we still got Glen Beck beat on likely voters.
Is this suppose to be secret Dem news who cares just who reads the Lake or can we change policy kick ass and take names?
Remember Maccaca, Trent Lott?
Well, Blue, I meant Tom Friedman (the Moustache of Wisdom or Understanding or something like that) and David McCullough, an historian who has a sort of conservative – but not overwhelmingly obnoxious- point of view.
Please do not tell GWB agenda was not pulling in regressive taxes, reducing estate taxes & going to war with a country which was not asking for a fight with totally false claims of WMD. GWB had a smooth sailing till he tried to privatize social security.
What was needed for Public Option was will to fight and empathy of what the main street goes through to make ends meet and not mockery of main street health care concerns at $30,000 a plate dinner. If LBJ was present, considering the current unaffordable state of health care whose premium costs have overrun the economic growth mocking our market oriented system, he would have got Public Option or Medicare for all even if his own party was in minority. In short words he would have Republican converts to this cause of health care for all.
“Bush pretty much had his way with Congress during his first term, ramming [...]”
I admit, I thought you were going somewhere else entirely with that paragraph.
Thanks for the link. Maher’s great.