Richard Posner writes that income inequality will not affect the bonds of a political community like the United States. Posner is a judge on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, and an influential conservative thinker. His paper, Community, Wealth and Inequality (.pdf), concludes that the level of income, rather than inequality, is the threat. Even by 1997, when this paper appeared in its first incarnation, it was apparent that income inequality was rising in the US. Now, of course, it has reached gilded-age levels, increasing the importance of the question.
His explanation for increased income inequality is the usual conservative meritocratic view: technology has increased the value of the services provided by a few, and decreased the value of the work done by everyone else. He also cites increased competition from abroad and increased occupational mobility.
He is primarily concerned about the threat to political stability posed by a “restive, potentially destabilizing underclass, who though democratically impotent because too alienated to participate in voting and other civic activities are potential recruits for violent protest movements.” He tells us that this group is not dangerous.
In countries in which the vast majority of the population is reasonably well off, and able and willing to finance a formidably large and powerful apparatus for the maintenance of public order, an underclass has no significant political leverage or opportunities.
As long as this “repressive apparatus (a criminal-justice and internal-security system)” is effective and civilized, society will be willing to fund it. I note that members of the underclass whose appeals are before Posner might think he has a predisposition to convict. This leads him to conclude that only where the income is held by a tiny few and the rest of the people are poor will inequality be a problem.
As to the rest of the population, we needn’t worry about income inequality, according to Posner, because it is much less than in eighteenth-century England, a society with wealth concentration levels society that Posner agrees would be problematic. Look at New York City, he says. It has a vast income disparity, but it is stable and democratic.
This is standard fare for the conservative intellectual, a paean to social mobility and the great melting pot, peppered with authoritarianism. I ignore the gibes at the possibility that a sensible democracy might support income redistribution, and turn back to the beginning of the paper where Posner explains what he means by political community: “a group of people whose relations with one another are essentially cooperative rather than destructively adversary.”
Willing submission to democratic government implies a degree of trust of one’s conationals— this mass of strangers of no particular distinction to whom one has entrusted one’s fate—that in turn is a plausible precondition of cooperative relations and hence of political stability.
Posner’s inquiry is only directed at how these conditions might be affected by income inequality. It didn’t dawn on him that while he was writing and appearing at delightful conventions with his intellectual peers, the rich were wrecking the foundations of a democratic society.
First, they unleashed upon the nation a form of destructive capitalism, unrestrained by any consideration other than their personal wealth. They purchased the creation of an economic theory (one to which Posner was for years an enthusiastic adherent) that justified their rapacious behavior. Congress and the executive branch were influenced to accept this nonsense, and changed the entire regulatory structure of the nation so that every economic venue would be a playground for wolves.
Now we live in a society in which there are no restraints on the greed and corruption of the wealthy. No one is accountable for the destruction of trillions of dollars of wealth or the Gulf of Mexico, killings in mine disasters, salmonella poisoning, or any of the countless other examples of economically driven crimes. Punishment is reserved for Posner’s underclass. We are subject to “destructively adversary” capitalism.
Simultaneously the rich funded a group of people who preach that government by Democrats is illegitimate. That group now dominates the Republican party, whose leadership will do absolutely anything to prevent governance by Democrats. They represent a huge number of voters who are unwilling to be governed by Democrats, or by anyone who doesn’t completely agree with them.
Income inequality put trillions of dollars under the control of people who intend to destroy political community. Posner didn’t notice. It isn’t a surprise that one of his most well-known works is entitled: Public Intellectuals: A Study In Decline.




55 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Masaccio, you may be aware of an absolutely brilliant guest post that William Black wrote in the past month or so at NakedCapitalism, in which he tracked the development and funding of the Olin Foundation’s endowments in business (and legal) education — basically, all funding explanations of an economic model based on the fiction of ‘equilibrium’. And if you have ‘perfect equilibrium’ in markets, well then markets must be ‘self correcting’.
And if markets are ‘self correcting’, then you can’t possibly (swoony, kerchief-waving flourish of dramatic whinery here) intervene in markets… and since markets have perfect equilibrium and are self-correcting, then there can never be any problems with fraud… wheeeeee!!!
The stupidity of these people is just breathtaking to me.
But boy, howdy — it’s more and more clear as the body of evidence collects that they have truly PURCHASED the creation of economic
theoriesfictions, suited to pawn off profligate corruption and greed as ‘dynamic innovation’.I do hope that progressives work with Prof Black to bring these relationships to public notice. Because it’s breathtaking to see how ignorant these people are: their economic beliefs are about as plausible — if you start laying out how it actually works — as claiming that darling little flouncy-skirted, ballet-dancing economic fairies come put cream puffs on our pillows in the night.
Their slippery logic is simply breathtaking.
Posner is a confessed authoritarian with no patience for popular democracy. In fact, he’s written that broad enfranchisement and political engagement endangers society by distracting people from their most important function: buying things.
More alarming than Posner’s beliefs are their legitimization by those who simply agree or who cannot see the threat because to them democracy is an intangible, something like a forever young god that will transcend and survive all attacks.
Hobbesians like Posner first create the conditions (an underclass) they then attribute to natural causes which justify their, “See, we told you the people were irresponsible and unable to rule themselves. Hence, we must rule them.”
Richard Posner writes that income inequality will not affect the bonds of a political community like the United States
NOT FOR HIM and his family
Ah, yes.
Hobbesians who can’t trouble themselves to read an iota of anthropology research, nor social science or social psychology research.
Posner’s ideas can’t stand up one bit against the research of Drew Westen (sp?), nor Lakoff, nor quite a few other people who actually do…. you know, ‘experimental design’.
Posner’s thinking is rather 1950s, methinks. Or may 1880s?
I thought Posner was a jackass when I first read some of his stuff in 1972 and he hasn’t disappointed me yet. Whatta gift from Ronald RayGun and the USeless Senate. A reich Intellectual supastar.
Good article. Posner certainly is an articulate apologist for those who plunder a willing people. But is in substance correct. As long as there is order and some modicum of lingering civility the people will collaborate with the system and the chance of rebellion is slim. I think people are on whole contented where there is order and predictability and some rationalization of fairness. IMO That is where we are now. Posner is one of the many scoundrels who are so far successfully providing that rationalization.
I am coming to view the money class as all great shills for what they revere most, their money.
Cowboys and snake oil salesmen. The imaginary old west had it all.
Why should Posner disagree with the societal conditions that gave him such a comfortable living? It’s not like he needs a conscience or anything.
What Posner is describing is a definition of fascism. The Merriam-Webster definition:
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”
is too simple.
Italian fascism gives a better view of the show to come, particularly when placed under the magnifying glass of Gramsky’s concept of cultural hegemony as the primary means whereby the working (i.e., middle) class identify their own well-being with the well-being of the upper classes. As a result, they willingly participate in their own repression against their own self-interests. That’s what this guy is preaching. Not what’s good for IBM is good for America, but what’s good for the Forbes 400 is good for America.
BTW, I’m a social democrat so I tend to believe in economic progress. I also believe in a free market, but I can’t seem to find any of those anywhere.
In Posner’s model, where democracy is concerned, there is no there there. We are an empire in decline. We have very little of democracy in our current society. What we have a great deal of corporate monopoly, oligarchy, plutocracy and fascism.
His housekeeper needs to go up on her rates. Say, 200,000 a month? Maybe more? There is no way I would do a thing for the scum!
Really then why do the rich who have no tech skills get richer? Also man does not live on tech alone he needs food last I checked.
The rich have forgotten we can revolt and take it all away from them. The rich seem to be believing their own lies about the Tax Payer financed bank bailout that saved the economy.
We own the banks the rich owe the banks so we own them after all nobody uses their own money to finance anything anymore only poor people do that.
“We own the banks the rich owe the banks so we own them after all nobody uses their own money to finance anything anymore only poor people do that.”
Well said!
Not to mention the fact that the Banks, Funds, and other vehicles that took our savings and ran with it during the meltdown haven’t given that a second thought. They should be on the hook to return at least 30 percent. But, ya know they are just fine now that Ben begged and Bush pushed!
“The rich have forgotten we can revolt and take it all away from them.”
Social unrest predicted after UK Govt unveils austerity measures
http://www.neurope.eu/articles/Social-unrest-predicted-after-UK-Govt-unveils-austerity-measures/102688.php
So, the Uk is training 40,000 front line police to make sure nothing is taken away from the sociopaths.
Remember the guillotines!
[modnote: no real or imaginary violence.]
I agree with Michael Moore that at its core capitalism is antithetical to democracy. We’re seeing that fact demonstrated in the worst way.
The Gini index is a number between 0 and 100, where 0 represents perfect equality (where everyone has the same income) and 100 represents perfect inequality (where one person has all the income, and everyone else has zero income).
The Gini index for the United States has trended upward since 1968, from 38.6 to 46.6 (for 2008, the latest figure available). If the current trend continues, the United States will likely reach a Gini index of 54.6 by 2043. This is equivalent to Mexico in the year 2000.
Unprecedented income inequality in modern America and historically low rates of taxation on the MOU are expressions of explicit, intentional government policy, not just rewards for greater merit. Several Waltons, for example, are among America’s top ten wealthiest Americans, while few of them actively contributed to creating those billions. That ought to worry Judge Posner, who knows his French history.
I remember some famous author came up with a ratio of rich to poor at which governments become unstable. I don’t remember any key words that would let me find it. With the number of people this recession has hurt, I wonder if we are a lot closer to that ratio than we were 3 years ago.
Here is how Posner thinks of himself.
But the trend is unlikely to continue, because it has been broken by Wall Street and the Fed’s response to the mess.
The Market is tits up, QE II is on the horizon, and gold is, well – shooting for the moon.
His hero is Joseph Schumpeter, who hated democracy. Posner, in those footsteps, is a strong advocate of what he calls “elite democracy,” that is, rule by the self-selected few over the many. It’s good that people can vote, he argues, just in case the wisdom of the public might one day be needed. Until then, we shouldn’t bother our little heads with worldly problems best left to our betters.
Posner is a judge who has ruled in many election-related cases. Needless to say, he shrugs off challenges to voter suppression.
Poor buzi bee. I saw two full days of work in there, nothing more. He thinks way more of himself than any human should.
I remember the days when I would have asked if that story was Snark. The Tin Foil hat crowd was if anything not paranoid enough.
Well the Lefty Tin Foil hat types the Righties still think Clinton had black helicopters.
Here a bit of support for the notion that Posner doesn’t think much of democracy:
The economic and political costs are “increasingly recognized” because of the efforts of Posner and others, all supported by the wealthy who would be affected if people voted in their self-interest.
Exactly! That is a perfect response which brings me to this:
It’s time we started discussing the difference between INCOME and WAGES.
The wealthy in America today desire a more formal aristocracy without the titles , although I think we should allow titles again, ( just nor hereditary ones), the Gov’t should sell titles to the oligarchs. They already have acquired the “rights” and privileges of an aristocracy so why not the titles. LORD GATES anyone or how about Baron Trump? If the shoes fits I think they should wear them.
We have power we do own the banks we do own the rich we just need to remember we have power and act like we have power.
The rich used to own the banks we do. The banks we don’t own well if we pull our money from the banks we do own the economy and those banks we don’t own fail he can destroy a thing can control a thing.
If we want power we must show we can use power. Boycotts for example Target backed down fast after giving cash to anti gay pols. Whole Foods they demoted their founder and CEO because he was very publicly anti healthcare.
We are starting to change companies minds. Next step break a company. We need to show our power in increasingly bigger steps we need to gain experience and confidence doing this.
We need allies. As far as targets go we have plenty lets wait for a fat one.
Speaking of helicopters, Shalom Ben has green ones, and he plans to use them. The race to the bottom will be accelerated come January, and then all bets are off.
We have a fat one. I should say most of my progressive buds have one now. It begins with a “K” and ends with an “och.” Oh yeah, let’s not forget the huge one with the “M” and “anto”.
From a recent study, Building a Better America:
http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/norton%20ariely%20in%20press.pdf
“…we observed a surprising level of consensus: All demographic groups – even those not usually associated with wealth redistribution such as Republicans and the wealthy – desired a more equal distribution of wealth than the status quo.”
Posner might like things to stay the same but most Americans would like to see more equality.
Yes, the neoclassical economics models, to which Posner obviously subscribes, are irrefutably broken and cannot explain current conditions.
We are urgently in need of figuring out what went wrong, and of using new fields (including psychology) to build new, more accurate models of economic behavior.
Economics is a social science.
Posner and his fellow muddlers appear to think that it is either philosophy, or mathematics. They are greatly in error, and they bring those errors into their views of political behavior.
They’re not evil; but very, very misguided.
He also cites increased competition from abroad and increased occupational mobility
Uh huh, I’m sure companies are busy using labor arbitrage to hire CEOs from Canada for 50% off.
http://www.realitybase.org/journal/2009/1/17/two-hypotheses-for-why-us-ceo-pay-is-so-high.html
Are you a “cleaning lady” too?
My republican mother had a cleaning lady when I was growing up and out of all the examples I had, I chose to emulate her. Go figure.
There is an argument or two for keeping them but Posner is a living argument for abolishing all lifetime appointments “in a democratic society”.
and old, dont forget old.
We’ve monetized craving and institutionalized greed into a muscular, aggressive, competitive system that is measured by winners and losers – hence the systemic inequalities.
Tumors like Posner will go away if we adopt a new approach to society – based on a ‘qualitative’ approach to life – where everyone can rest assured that ‘the basics’ are guaranteed for one and all who participate in good faith.
Our current run-amok system has encouraged, among other things, sociopath-producing MBA Programs to churn-out ‘conscience-less’ predators who think nothing of destroying the lives of others to get ‘rich’ themselves – and they call it ‘winning.’
I think civility movements like “The Coffee Party” do serve the right more than the left, by buying into the left is as bad as the right narrative, and disarming the left, but thankfully hardly any lefties fell for it!
So you’re going to revolt and take wealth away from the rich.
LOL.
Look people, there will always be poor people. It even says that in the bible (or so I’ve been told). The main reason we have poor people is because we have lazy people. We’ve never had more lazy people on a percentage basis. Government handouts tend to make one lazy.
I’ll be waiting for your revolt. I’ll try not to laugh.
I’m not so sure. I think the old saw about the students all getting the average grade is actually very true. If I know I can have it pretty easy and do nothing, then that’s what I’ll do. So will everyone else. Pretty soon no one will be working. But I guess we can still print money.
S
C
R
O
L
L
Past the
T
R
O
L
L
Why is he still here?
Thomas Hobbes (5 April 1588 – 4 December 1679)
Beats da sh*t outta me
Capitalism is slowing dying. What will take its place is the thing that scares me the most. I know most of the people here are liberals, and therefore believe in capitalism–but as we have seen liberalism has failed us in the face of a virulent strain of authoritarian capitalism. It’s just not up to the task anymore. Both parties have been taken over by the right wing.
We need to think about a new system free of capitalist hierarchy and exploitation. In its stead, mutual aid and worker control will take its place, offering every human being true freedom!
Can someone explain to me whether Posner [a full time judge] uses public resources in the creation of his other intellectual endeavors? Are taxpayers getting their 40 hours a week from him or are his clerks doing his job?
Unfortunately Jon Stewart’s “Rally To Restore Sanity” is based on the same false equivalence, for example saying that Code Pink is the lefty equivalent of the Tea Party. It might be, if the Democrats never dared to criticize progressives. However lately, dumping on us seems to be their main preoccupation!
By contrast, on the rare occasions when Republicans deviate from the Tea Party line they get the axe (Senator Bob Bennett, R-UT) or are forced to instantly recant (Karl Rove after dissing Christine O’Donnell).
That Posner dude has a high octane rap that I expect is the end result of a very fancy education. But I dispose of his arguments with a low octane response. ‘Richard, you are a mean bastard.’
1. as a matter of principle (say wha’?), i am for true free speech…
for whatever reasons, most blogs -pwogs or konservatives- do not believe in free speech… they do not believe in it so much, they resort to a type of genteel CENSORSHIP they lovingly call ‘moderating’…
(its for our own ‘good’, really… *snort*)
i think it is subverting the core principle upon which all our other rights are predicated… that even koo koo kwazy, commie, free-lovin’, dope-smokin’ dissolute treehuggers can’t abide free speech is very disappointing…
2. i don’t see how ms pithy’s (love that name) statement was anything radical that deserved a smackdown; i know i have said MUCH more radical rantings and generic ‘threats’ which have not merited a ‘warning’ or CENSORSHIP (that i am aware of, CENSORS -no matter *what* political stripe- are sneaky liars and hypocrites, aren’t they ?)…
there is a difference between ‘threats’ by a party -like the gummint- who CAN (and DOES) have the ability to carry them out; it is quite another thing for powerless nobodies at the bottom of the food chain to ‘threaten’ our superiors… they laugh at the sheeples baring their teeth, they know it is no real ‘threat’…
3. so let me get this straight: korporadoes can directly and indirectly kill tens of thousands of workers a year, and their REAL violence against society is not to be spoken of by the korporate media, a type of CENSORSHIP…
but you want to be on *that* side ? ? ?
gummint war kriminals can order the slaughter of millions of brown people the world over for no good reasons, but if the korporate media doesn’t talk about them, they -literally- don’t count…
and you want to be on the side of those angels ? ? ?
reichwing bloggers will not brook ANY dissent on their sites, and you want to emulate *them* ? ? ?
geezus, is there not ONE so-called progressive who -in their OWN li’l sandbox- will defend free speech instead of destroying it ? ? ?
4. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
THAT is one of the BEST principles of our democratic heritage; if it was necessary once, [Edited by Moderator]
…and if so, please tell me how that is to be accomplished without making an omelet ? ? ?
MILLIONS of mostly poor, brown, and disenfranchised can be directly and indirectly actually and really MURDERED by the kapitalist imperialist War Machine; but a few rich white men and other power elites [Edited by Moderator.] is beyond the pale…
if you don’t defend -and practice!- free speech, you have beaten yourselves…
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
artguerrilla@windstream.net
eof
[Mod Note: While you may not agree, when you are playing in the FDL sandbox, you will abide by the FDL rules. Which means no violence or threat or violence against other humans. You may disagree with others at all levels of society but will do so respectfully or yes, your comments will be removed. The comment you ae concerned about was not edited, just a caution was issued. And yes, we know the words of the Declaration of Independence. 2010 is not 1776. In an era of virtually instant communications especially.]
For the uniformed (moi), what is QE?
Thanks.
Joseph Schumpeter, who hated democracy.”?????
I always thought Joseph Schumpeter was simply telling it like it is – as he saw it – projecting a US that was moving to corporatism, with the rich controlling the democratic process. Posner seems to feel that Schumpeter advocated that result, despite Schumpeter stating he was not doing so. He was one of my favorite readings before I moved over into physics and math and finally actuarial work. I disagreed with much that he said (he was not anti-Keynes but not totally sold on Keynes – whereas I was sold on Keynes) and I thought and think one must fight those trends he saw developing.
well said.
Excellent diary and lots of great comments, but this is the one I had to stand with and say “YES.”
In October 2008, I stopped and bought a copy of Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations” in order to go back to the roots of the capitalist theories. I wanted to reexamine what went wrong. I looked at a lot of other sources since then as well. But one thing kept resonating with me.
It was about “Wealth of Nations.”
Today, the nation-state is in decline. The rise of the multinational conglomerate has eclipsed the nation-state. That is a major shift in the paradigm. Now, the new book would be entitled, “Wealth of Multinational Conglomerates.”
So, we keep hearing about the one-line phrase of Adam Smith discussing the free market and the “laissez-faire” concept, yet it has no practical applicability anymore. None of Adam Smith has any applicability to the extent that the fundamental paradigm has shifted so dramatically. He was writing in the CONTEXT of a NATION-STATE having the fundamental wealth. He was talking in the context of a regulated economy, where the idea of a “Corporation” was still somewhat novel and limited.
The entire game has changed. So, our entire model and framework and theory has to change with it. Great diary. Recommended.
Queen Elizabeth. The QE II is a cruise ship. Or, the Second Queen named Elizabeth. Or both. Cheers.
I agree “greed” motivates and society must have people who are motivated, but the prior post suggested a “basic” level safety net – get more by working hard was implied I thought.
QE2 = Fed policy to ease monetary situation with something other than lower interest rates and bailouts that balloon its balance sheet. In practice it seems to be more ballooning of the balance sheet via purchases of longer term government – and mortgage backed – assets. In effect a plan to keep mortgage rates low.
QE= Quantitative Easing
Adam Smith is still important – mainly because he was on the left by modern standards.
When Adam Smith lectured that the cause of increase in national wealth is labor, rather than the nation’s quantity of gold or silver, which is the basis for mercantilism, he became a major influence on Marx.
Indeed, Smith was in support of helping infant industries via a subsidy, and wanted tariffs on imported goods to counteract all the internal taxes/cost of doing business on the same good. He thought their was a major need for government involvement in writing the rules on how to enforce contracts and provide a justice system, to grant patents and copy writes, to provide public goods such as infrastructure (such as a FDA or SEC, etc.), to provide national defense and to regulate banking, feeling that only government can provide that “of such a nature that the profit could never repay the expense to any individual” such as roads, bridges, canals, and harbors. He also encouraged infant industry monopolies and he supported public education and he supported religious institutions as providing general benefit to the society. In addition, he was in favor of retaliatory tariffs and believed that they would eventually bring down the price of goods. He even stated in Wealth of Nations:
“The recovery of a great foreign market will generally more than compensate the transitory inconvenience of paying dearer during a short time for some sorts of goods.”
The Wealth of Nations also includes the following statement on the payment of taxes:
“The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”
Chomsky argues that Smith supported markets in the belief that they would lead to equality, and that Smith opposed wage labor and corporations.
Hard to see that Smith is totally out-dated, or an enemy of the left – but it is obvious that the right has stolen him and our media is too stupid or too controlled by the rich to do more that repeat whatever PR piece the WSJ puts out about how a given action is needed by the rich because that is what Adam Smith would have wanted.