Are we? I suspect not if the votes get actually, accurately, counted.

Heh! No sign of a tax-cut job anywhere. Do you see any?

How many times do we have to prove there is NO trickle down?

But But but but AL GORE’S FAT!11!!!!

Part of the problem is a GOP/Media Complex that actively works to push Republican framing.

And he takes lots of plane rides!

Who is the ‘we’ in your last line, that are losing, and who are ‘these’ guys?

You keep forgetting that the lines of division are on a vertical, not horizontal axis. Class warfare is a bipartisan phenomenon, no?

one of the best posts ever and if all of the democrats repeated all of these points on every show we would actually hold our majoritys

Muhaaaaaaaaaawaaaaaaaa. PW, you are too much some days. Ouch! my cheeks hurt from laughing.

“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base.”
–George W Bush, Al Smith Memorial Dinner in New York, 19th October 2000

Couldn’t Obama now give that exact same line in a speech? Especially after he signs the exact same Bush Tax cuts into law in December (or February).

The average family in the private sector should be able to get by with maybe $60K a year, don’t you think? Why not just forfeit anything more than that to the government to do with as they see fit? People with too much money just spend it on dumb crap like beer, cigarettes, yachts, and cars with funny wheels.

“Why not just forfeit anything more than that to the government to do with as they see fit? ”

Really?

this is how they accomplish their means

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html

Why not have a fair, progressive tax system like that of the 1950′s (mostly under a Republican President)?

90 % is onerous,my Dad paid it,he was going to quit working

50% is plenty

Did he quit?

Tom is a no-taxer. The word “forfeit” should’ve given you the hint.

I’ve suggested he move to Samalia before, but apparently he’d rather stay here and bitch about taxes rather than move to a country that doesn’t have any.

There’s also no one on the non GOP side challenging the GOP. You can’t tell me that if Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, or either Clinton can’t make the news and loudly challenge the GOP, over and over. For some reason, they just won’t so the GOP just lie and lie and lie.

I fear that because the Dems are complicit in the creation of offshore tax havens, accounting bamboozlement, and other ills, they are too timid and compromised to call out the GOP on precisely the kinds of problems outlined in the post.

This is an increasingly asymmetrical economic system.

One problem that the Dems have failed to exploit is how much of this money ended up offshore, untaxed at all by US government.

Bush has never been held accountable for that, which is an outrage.

he left the job,and did alternative things

That depends on where you live. Some places, $60K isn’t that much.

Why don’t we make the cut-off $75K? That’s the point where money stops buying happiness for folks.

It might actually prolong life on earth if people weren’t p*ssing away money on yachts

Bush has never been held accountable for anything during his entire life.

50% at the high end would work well

For some reason, they just won’t so the GOP just lie and lie and lie.

Exactly!!! PW is correct in that the R’s will always have it easier than the D’s to get out their message, but if they wanted to, really wanted to, they could get it out better than they do.

And you’re last line is the key. “For some reason” they don’t. When you realize the reason, you’ll be making posts similar to me. (I know, I know, that’s a scary feeling. But there really is only one rational “for some reason” that they don’t. Come on, you know it, just say it!!!! It’s liberating!)

Still can’t believe we’re losing to these guys

When only one side is campaigning, that side tends to win.

Alternative things, eh?, – that explains it.

Would you compromise at 70?

It’s as if, “Who are those guys?” were a question asked in front of a mirror.

i dont think that is fair for wage EARNERS
for capital ,yes
but if i were to make 250,000 $ a year working…50% of my hard earned labor i feel is sufficent.

ya know,now that i think of it
take 50% of FORBES 400 1.4 trillion bucks…thats plenty

Now THAT’s a great idea. Don’t know how you’d do it, but we do have it backwards in this country right now, taxing capital earning less than we do labor earnings.

Are there any links or some talk about that, actually making capital rates higher than wages? I think it’s a great idea, and wonder if anyones worked out any of the details. (you know, like a person makes $200,000 in wages and $200,000 in interest/dividends, how would you do that?)

I like that idea. Which of course means it has no hope of ever becoming reality, but I’d love to read more about it if you have any links.

Per Dave Dayen, 16 House Dems demand that the “carried interest” tax break, which allows hedge fund managers to pay a 15% marginal rate, be continued.

“Tax Cuts for the rich create jobs outside the US,” Ian Welsh, Sept. 19, 2010

Why, oh why are the Democrats so cowed by the magic words “tax cuts”?

They’ve allowed the myths that the Repubs and their corporate masters have peddled for 30 years to take over the entire discussion.

Where’s the “educating” of the public, like asking them

**do you like the education your kids are getting, whether in elementary/high school or college? Tax revenue could be applied to make education better.

**do you feel okay about the services available to those who need them — veterans, the elderly, the handicapped, those out-of-work? Tax revenue could be used to help all of these people.

**are you happy about the degree of oversight and regulation protecting you from dirty air, rancid food, contaminated water, dangerous medications? Tax revenue could beef up all these protections.

And on and on.

I don’t think the American people think they can walk into a grocery store or a restaurant or Home Depot and just pick up what they desire & walk out without paying. It’s the same in “civil society.” The Dems are petrified of reminding people of their obligations as adults.

So much easier to whine, point fingers and guard “mine” like the Republicans. And it makes the Democrats just like them.

excuse me,what is it your biz?

Still can’t believe we’re losing to these guys.

Just goes to show how incompetent the Demo party brass really are. The only good thing I can say about the Rethugs is that they know how to fight dirty. The Demos need to learn this lesson, and fast. Will they? Um….prolly not.

I’d be happy with that. Plus, the other part of the question is, if there are two different tax rates for two different kinds of income, how long do you think it will be before much more of that total income looks like the kind of income that’s taxed at the lower rate?

Tax law changes beget tax shelter changes. It seems to be an immutable law of the universe.

I’m not sure why Democrats are letting Republicans tout the Bush tax cuts as though they were so awesome for the country.

Because Democrats want to extend them.

I think we’re seeing the end result of the DLC philosophy – they went for the easy money that the rich were happy to provide in exchange for screwing the rest of us. Unfortunately, it’s “the rest of us” who vote for Democrats. When they screw us, they make us weaker and more apathetic.

That’s a simple progression that should have been obvious back in the 1990s.

Unfortunately, we live in a world of instant gratification. Not enough Democratic leaders were willing to take the longer, harder road that Glenn Smith was referring to this morning.

yup,90 % tax es are a diensentive to work…50 seems equitable to me…15% is too low

Yes, but you don’t make $250K.
It’s easy for you people to throw out high tax rates for those who actually do something.
Raise rates to high and the people who actually do something will stop.
Know what I’m sayin’?

Try 40%. Many states will tack on the other 10%.

You have no idea what people make who post here. You enjoy tossing out barbs based on no information whatsoever and love to paint with a broad brush that every single liberal/progressive/Democrat in the USA is lazy slacker who never works and only gets welfare.

Yet I bet you know that’s not true.

If you came here and engaged in a sensible conversation/debate, that would be one thing, but what you do is boring and borish with no outcome other than sticking out tongues and going nanny nanny boo boo.

It’s clear that Obamaca plans to extend the Bush tax cuts. They are republicans & will do what their corporate masters tell them to do.

As an aside, I know quite a few Democratic voters who make way more than $250k per year, and althoug no one loves paying taxes, they really believe that – for the good of the country – progressive tax rates should be increased.

Frankly, the increase on those make around $250k is minimal and doesn’t amount to that much of a tax burden. It’s just corporate-owned rightwing media that makes it seem that way.

KO this week had a great segment about what really constitutes “small business,” and in the main, they’re not small and their earnings are quite large. Re-instituting a more progresse tax rate with the highest amount being at least somewhere in the 40% range would make a lot of sense. It’s not socialism to have enough money to spend domestically on such shared “goods” as infrastructure, public schools, public safety, etc.

Won’t happen though with Obamaco, and that’s one thing that we can take to the bank.

Hear Hear!

Allow all the tax cuts to expire, then increase the tax cut for under 100/150k. That IS America’s middle class.

Book Salon up with China Mielville’s Kraken (novel) hosted by Henry Farrell

Still can’t believe we’re losing to these guys.

Answer is simple. Medical Reform Act with Mandates. Already Massachessetts people spoke with Sen. Kennedys seat election and Democrats did not listen to it.

Coming back to the topic colossal Failure is the one word to describe tax cuts. Lets look at facts.

Year Top Tier Tax Rate
1920 73%
1921 73%
1922 43.5%
1923 46%
1924 25%
1925 25%
1926 25%
1927 25%
1928 25%
1929 24% <—- Great Depression Starts
1930 25%

Year Top Tier Tax Rate
2000 39.6%
2001 38.6%
2002 38.6%
2003 35%
2004 35%
2005 35%
2006 35%
2007 35% <— Great Recession Starts

Why did we not get Great Depression right now.
Answer is simple. In 1930 we did not have Social Security concept at work. This is the one and only thing which saved the system right now.

Why did we have Great Recession instead of usual tepid Recession.
Answer is simple. Glass-Steagall Act Repeal with a high sounding Act called Securities Modernization Act which had salient features of no regulation of derivatives and besides usual tax benefits for investing in totalitarian countries so that those countries can use surpluses to buy our countrys debt, control our country while their own people still do not get their fair share of the prosperity.

Don’t feed the idiot troll.

He’s obviously impervious to reason.

“Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty, and the pig loves it.”

If someone doesn’t believe in government, why would they believe in taxes?

Is someone doesn’t believe in government, why wouldn’t they move to a country where for the most part there isn’t one? (like Somalia)

So when are you moving to Somalia? The lack of government there seems as if it would be the Galtian utopia – everything you look for in a “society” is right there waiting for you.

What cha drinking there?

Heh, just popped open an ice cold can of Ginger Ale, so guess I’m good.

Thanks though!! I guess great minds…. you know the rest.

Never heard of correlation/causation have you?

Studies seem to show that 65% is where not working starts – and even then it is very few folks. When the Brits had near 100% marginal tax rates on things like dividends (for the very rich) the economy moved along quite nicely.

Glass-Steagall Act Repeal with a high sounding Act called Securities Modernization Act which had salient features of no regulation of derivatives ” –

true that the repeal had no regulation of derivatives – but then without repeal there was no regulation of derivatives. G-S repeal had little or nothing to do with the banking crisis. Regulation of derivatives waited on action by the Fed under Greenspan – and he refused to act.

true that the repeal had no regulation of derivatives – but then without repeal there was no regulation of derivatives.

When Glass Steagall Act was passed there was no derivatives in the form we see now. When some act is labelled Securities Modernization Act it has to cover regulation of those derivatives and it was a sarcastic remark that it did not have that.

Glass Steagall clearly put delimiters between Commerical and Investment banks. Now Banking crisis was caused by intent or non-intent when they mixed commercial and investment money, lost or stated they lost all the money and asked for the Government bailout and also played Depression card. Congress would have never authorized bailouts if commercial money i.e. main street private money was not mixed into the investment banks and if they were not worried about the depression. If it was only investment banks at play they would have let them get into bankruptsy.
As a unrelevant side-note congress at the time did not realize we will not get Depression as long as Social Security is present and viola bailout bonanza began. Thats why all the brouhaha on Main Street till now.

The Bush tax cuts were all about funding the right-wing Fascist Revolution in America, with the Bush administration’s unitary executive tactics being twofold: 1) cut taxes for the wealthiest donors to right-wing fascist causes and 2) funnel any remaining taxpayer money, through no-bid contracts, privatizing everything public that they could and by trashing the Hatch Act in federal hiring practices, to pack the pockets of right-wing individuals and corporations.

All this was mapped out in the 1990s at places like PNAC as part of the Fascist Republican’s plan to seize control and maintain control over our liberal democracy for a thousand years. Dissenters would be identified and neutralized. The media would be used to spread talking points meant to brainwash American citizens into subservience to their new Fascist masters. The educational system would be restructured so only what the right-wing Fascists wanted children to learn would be taught. The federal judiciary, including the Supreme Court, would be packed with loyal Fascist Republicans who would interpret the law (and the U.S. Constitution) according to the right-wing Fascist ideology. Federal agencies would be packed with lobbyists for and employees of the Bush tax cut-benefiting wealthiest individuals and corporations, corporate lobbyists and corporate employees who would gut the regulatory function of federal agencies. The Department of Justice, similarly, would be packed with Fascist Republican lawyers who would use the DOJ for solely political purposes, launching investigations and prosecutions of political opponents, gutting civil rights and worker protections, supporting corporations. Expanding the surveillance state, using new technologies to track and monitor anyone viewed as a threat to the Fascist Revolution. Starting wars so even more taxpayer money can make it’s way into the pockets of Fascist war profiteers, to continue the funding the right-wing Fascist Revolution at taxpayer expense. Funneling taxpayer money to right-wing religious organizations and individuals, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, adjuncts to the right-wing’s no-bid contracts and privatization schemes, similar to the overall Fascist Republican scheme to keep taxpayer money circling back into the campaign coffers of the right-wing-billionaire-backed corporate-owned Fascist Republicans, all to fund the right-wing Fascist Revolution and the planned thousand-year reign of terror of a self-perpetuating Fascist right-wing unitary executive.

And then the 2006 elections happened. Ooops.

But the corporate backers of the Fascist Republicans had a fall-back plan…turn to the DLC wing of the Democratic Party. Billionaire-backed corporate-owned DLC Democrats helped select Nancy Pelosi as the new Speaker of the House in January 2007, after which complicit-in-Bush-crimes telecom companies got retroactive immunity and Nancy Pelosi announced that impeachment of Bush and Cheney was off the table.

Then the November 2008 elections approached, and the corporate backers of a Fascist Revolution in America threw tons of money into Barack Obama’s campaign, especially with former DLC head Rahm Emanuel running it. Simultaneously, they donated a lot of money to Hillary Clinton’s presidential run, especially since she and her husband Bill were DLC alumni, with Hillary actually having been a Goldwater Girl back in the day. All the other more liberal progressive Democratic Party primary candidates fell by the wayside, leaving only Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton vying at the end.

Either one would have served the un-American, nefarious, middle-class-busting purpose of the corporate Fascist Revolution dreamers and schemers, until they could get more loyal, Koch-sucking Republicans back in control on Capitol Hill and in the White House. They have the money. They can bide their time. Their dreaming of and scheming for a permanent right-wing Fascist Revolution in America continues unabated, with the Tea Potty movement being just the latest manifestation of this right-wing corporate-Fascist-driven madness.

I’m voting straight Democratic Party ticket in November.