In 1976, the Schlitz Brewing Company of Milwaukee, WI, was the number two beer maker in the United States, its roughly $600 million in sales almost equal to that of industry leader Anheuser-Busch. But trouble loomed. The growing popularity of name-brand light beers, increased availability of niche and foreign brews, and a change in Schlitz’s brewing process, done to make its namesake beer cheaper to mass-produce, all were taking a toll on the market share of “the most carefully brewed beer in the world.”
So, in the Summer of 1977, an new CEO at Schlitz abandoned their heretofore successful “Go for the Gusto” slogan, and turned to the ad men of Leo Burnett to craft a message that would help increase the brewer’s short-term profits (the time between investment and payback was apparently too long for new management). What the boys from Burnett produced was a campaign that will live in infamy:
The commercials varied from one featuring a Muhammad Ali-like boxer with a full entourage to a rugged outdoorsman with his pet mountain lion. In each of the four commercials, an off-camera voice asked the lead characters to give up their Schlitz beer for another brand. The commercials, as Richard Stanwood, at the time Burnett’s director of creative services, would later recall, were meant to be “interruptive.”
At the screening of the new commercials, the Burnett people watched as the boxer told a disembodied voice that he was going to knock him “…down for the count” for even suggesting a switch from the Schlitz label. The outdoorsman in one of the following commercials told his pet mountain lion to calm down after his choice of Schlitz beer was also challenged and snarled back to the animal, “Just a minute, babe. I’ll handle this.”
. . . .
The reactions to the commercials once they went public were almost immediate; people hated them. Burnett officials were appalled at the reaction.
. . . .
Ten weeks after the commercials first began to air, Schlitz management ordered them pulled. Soon after, the Leo Burnett ad agency was fired by the Joseph Schlitz Brewing Company.
The short-lived run of commercials would go down in advertising history as “The Drink Schlitz or I’ll Kill You” ad campaign.
Though perhaps just the most obvious symptom of a systemic problem, the campaign sounded the death knell for “the drink that made Milwaukee famous.” Within a year, the company was in the red; by 1982, Schlitz had lost 90 percent of its market share. The company was sold, and sold again, and by the turn of the century, the brand had virtually disappeared from taps across the country.
I wanted to show you an example of these admonishing ads; I waded through hours of YouTubes to find one (I really did), but, alas, it seems that when Schlitz pulled these ads, they really pulled them. Fortunately, as luck would have it, I was watching “The Rachel Maddow Show” last night, and Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell did a remarkable reenactment:
We’ve been scared. We’ve been hiding behind shower curtains. It’s time to get out there and campaign about the good stuff we’ve done. . . .The opposition is being influenced more and more by wackos. . . . Our base ought to wake up. And anybody who’s watching this show who thought they might not vote ‘cause they are a little disappointed over this and a little disappointed over that, get over it. The stakes are huge; we gotta get out there and vote.
OK, maybe that’s not quite as good as the Schlitzing we got last week from White House barback Joe Biden (“Get in gear, man. . . . [Progressives] better get energized because the consequences are serious.”), but both spots have clearly been crafted by the same (m)ad men. In either case, the message is clear (OK, maybe “clear” is not the best word, but bear with me–I’ll start again. . . .). In either case, the message is clear: Vote for Democrats, or else!
I don’t believe that Rendell or Biden—or, for that matter, President Obama, who has also gone for the gusto lately—threatened to kill us, or even hurt us all that much (though I hear punching is much in vogue), but they are making a dire threat all the same.
[Bachmann terror overdrive! . . . after the jump.]
Bachmanns and Issas and Boehners, oh my!
What they are threatening is vague—“investigations” of some unnamed sort, “more of the same,” “wackos” and “Tea Party Republicans”—but it is meant to be scary. And what they are saying through these threats is that if any of this terror comes to pass, we’ll know whom to blame: those nitpicky, “glass half empty” voters of the professional and amateur left.
Blame game aside, for argument’s sake, let’s take the Democrats’ strategy at something like face value. Is this, as implemented, a winning campaign?
To begin with, examine the “or else.” “Investigations” and “subpoena power” are probably meant to remind us of Clinton’s second term, when a newly emboldened Republican majority brought the Congress to a standstill with impeachment hearings and a trial. I would be first to express my disgust with what that vintage of Republican majority did–it was conniving, irresponsible, and inexcusable. But, do Democrats really want to remind America about what was at the center of that impeachment? In a year when GOP sex scandals are ripe and bountiful, why give folks an excuse to shrug and say, “Both sides fuck around?”
Then there is the “more of the same” or “reversing back to the same” threat. My first thought—or my thought about what some of the truly disenfranchised might think—is, “Which same? The bad economy from before we elected Democrats, or the bad economy from after?” And there is even a recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll that says, flat out, that most Americans don’t believe Republicans will do the same things they did the last time they held power.
And what about those “Tea Party Republicans?” Evidently, some consultant has told Democratic insiders that this is messaging gold, because darn near every Dem surrogate within six feet of a microphone has used the term. Meanwhile, everyone from anonymous White House officials to the President himself has told reporters the strategy is to tie Republicans to the “extremist” Tea Party.
Rachel Maddow praised this move in the same show that featured Rendell, and criticized some inside the party who expressed dismay and warned of a backlash. While I will agree with Maddow that you do not need to refrain from calling the GOP “extremists” because you might have some chance of negotiating something with them if you do (nevergonnahappen), I have my doubts about the amount of benefit you will gain from drawing a circle around the “Tea Party” and the GOP.
Plenty of polls show Americans are dissatisfied with the sitting government at near-record levels. While not every race has proven to fit neatly into the “anti-establishment” storyline, it seems clear that positioning oneself as separate or different from the Washington establishment is a consistent talking point. The GOP crashes that have the national media rubbernecking from Nevada to Delaware are the result of a minority, yes, but a dedicated, enthusiastic minority, mobilizing to vote for relative outsiders over more established government hands.
So, why, in a year where being affiliated with any Beltway power structure is seen as political deadweight, are the Democrats falling all over themselves to tell voters that the previously stale, establishment GOP has been taken over by a fresh group of populist outsiders? How is it that we are to automatically believe that this new crop of “wackos” will do the same things as the old-timers that the Tea Partiers worked so hard to replace?
From a messaging perspective, you can see the inherent contradiction. And a contradictory, confusing message is likely a failing one. Confusion breeds inaction, and inaction is not the answer to the Democrats’ all-consuming enthusiasm gap.
That giant sucking sound
I have already gone on at some length about how an election is not a situation where you can hope to win by simply “sucking less” (and it is sucking less that is still very much underneath most of the Dem messaging). You have to leverage your benefits, and those benefits have to be apparent. Voting is not compulsory in the US, and if the choice for many is between “sucks” and “sucks less,” staying away from the polls is a very understandable third option. That leaves the truly motivated, the enthusiastic Tea Partiers, if you will, to dominate an almost certain low turnout election.
In 1976, there were fresh choices for beer drinkers, and Schlitz’s reaction was to abandon their core identity as well as their winning formula. They chose to eschew long-term investment for short-term profit, and when threatened by fast-weakening consumer enthusiasm, they decided to threaten their consumers right back. Threatening consumers did not work for Schlitz, and that was in a category where people pretty much understand the immediate benefits of their choices.
For Democratic leaders, threatening unenthusiastic voters with vague pictures of doom and gloom, when much of what the voters see right now is already pretty gloomy, is not going to “wake up” very many of the rank and file. Promising little else in terms of benefits if Democrats stay in power—little beyond “there’s more to do”—does not provide enough positive motivation to engender enthusiasm.
Interestingly, in 2008, Pabst, the current owners of the Schlitz name, began to reintroduce Schlitz, selling the benefits of its back-formulated, pre-1970s taste. In that same year, Americans elected a president who asked them to vote their hopes and not their fears. That was a winning strategy. Why, only two years later, has that president and his party chosen to ask us (or, more like, order us) to vote our fears?



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Speaking of fear: The Q-Poll on Cuomo-Palladino was an outlier; a new poll shows what all the other non-Q-polls show, namely that Andy Cuomo has a commanding lead. So folks can unclench their sphincters over this one.
I wonder what would happen if people called their congressmen and senators with this same message. Probably would not be a wise thing to do…
I drank Schlitz for years. Remember those cans that ya had to use a church key to get to the beer? They changed the formula and it tasted terrible. Switched to Miller. Still hate lite beers.
Sounds like the last gasp of a party which is down for the count. Obama and the Democrats are running out of people and parties to blame for their atrocious performance. Maybe they could blame those people who put them in office in the first place for getting them into this fix. The November elections will tell all. Goodby Democrats.
Haven’t heard the phrase church key for many moons. Got a laugh out of that. Thanks.
“Maybe they could blame those people who put them in office in the first place for getting them into this fix.”
heh! pretty much what they are doing.
Kirkland Signature Handcrafted Beer is actually excellent.
They threaten, because they would rather lose than actually govern from the left.
It never occurred to them to change back to the old brewing process 90% loss of market share is allot that and American beer has a Reputation a bad one Mexico sends us better beer than the domestic stuff…that should tell people something.
Watch out for Mr. Ed. He knows how to talk, which makes him a smart horse. He also might sick the PA DHS office on you if you’re not willing to play ball or are gay, black or thoughtful.
This is a carefully crafted D campaign. Heard it from prez Clinton & from a panel of Clintonistas on two separate cspan showings last week.
Scraping the bottom of the beer barrel, imo.
Thanks for the Schlitz story. It’s a keeper.
that scare tactic incantation has lost its magic.
obviously, it makes not a damn bit of difference which oligarchic Legacy Party grasps more power in Washington.
both teams suck, the whole league is corrupt, those with authentic social and political values place them way higher in priority than blind loyalty to a blue donkey.
Coke did the same thing within a decade with its own debacle, New Coke.
At least they didn’t threaten their base and they changed the formula back to keep their base from moving to their competition or giving up on carbonated beverages.
Hello, White House?
It would seem if there were a lot to run on, the Demo party would be doing just exactly that. Instead, they play the fear card, and call out the professional left, amateur left and dirty fucking hippies for their own predicament.
That dog don’t hunt.
I guess I will have to work harder on my sarcasm. Thanks for the heads up on that one. But isn’t that the ultimate irony: They told their base to fuck off and now they have no base, no agenda, and no trust. Sounds like the perfect storm for failure.
Yes you can start by naming some good things you done things we the People and not the Washington crowd think are good things. Its not only the Left and the Tea Baggers who are unimpressed its the majority of voters.
Oh wait on the issues most important to voters the majority of voters think the same way the Left does.
Its Obama and the Blue Dogs who are to the Right and out of step with the majority.
I remember that I was working fast food suddenly nobody was drinking coke:)
uh Gov, why isn’t the DCCC “in gear” and supporting Boehner’s Dem opponent ?
Vote for democrats…
Or I will kill the bunny.
Ah, but the Chair of Coke did famously remark when asked about the difference between Tab and Diet Coke: Tab is for girls, Diet Coke is for real people.
Maybe that could be the basis of the Dems’ next campaign!
Still got one in my kitchen drawer. Not one of the new thick ones with a plastic grip either. It used to live in my old VW.
nice majority you’ve got there. be a shame if something were to happen to it.
Yes we need to send Obama a message keep governing like George Bush one a third term and you will end up like Bush 2 lost wars and a destroyed economy yes Obama you could be in the running with George as worse President ever.
Your fear ad campaign won’t energize us because you already govern like we feared Bush and McCain would. The Tea Baggers are worse yes they are but you are not standing up to them now are you so how can we support you if won’t fight them?
Remember Goebbels & Meister Brau?
Blah blah… fear the ‘baggers… blah blah… f*cking r*tards… blah blah… fear the ‘baggers… blah blah… f*ck the UAW… blah blah… look at the “great stuff” we’ve done (i.e., NADA)… blah blah… fear the ‘baggers…
Shorter Ed Rendell: Dems got nothing; Dems done nothing; fear the ‘baggers. We suck less than Michelle Bachmann. GOTV.
How’s that workin’ out for ya, Ed?
what about coca cola’s excellent “surge,” the official bev of a stable irafpak? soda, war…same thing.
Nothing personal, just business.
There’s even more to the Schlitz story. Before the “I’ll kill you campaign,” the bean-counters at the brewery decided to speed up the fermentation process. The result was a flat beer with no foam, so managers added a seaweed extract, which eventually turned into a solid that looked like snot. Incredibly, management refused to recall the bad beer because it was told the snot-like substance was harmless. Schlitz’s market share went into free fall and never recovered.
Draw your own conclusions.
“the BEER that made milwaukee famous”
and perhaps aiding the demise was a country-and-western song (by george jones?):
“What Made Milwaukee Famous Has Made A Loser Out Of Me”
That one goes out to my beloved Dim leaders…
Democrats seize defeat from the jaws of something less than outright defeat:
Agreed we should be targeting Crazy GOPers and the GOP leadership. But I bet Rahm in exchange for the few GOP votes he got for a few bills promised the GOP leadership no serious challenges.
We need to see if the Dem leadership will admit to that.
I remember Meister Brau. Don’t remember drinking any of it though.
Here in Michigan they sold it in giant bottles, almost a six pack in one bottle.
I remember that. That crap laid at the bottom of the can. If ya poured into a glass it plopped out. Gross. That’s about the time I switched to Miller.
The problem with a “vote for us, or else” is that it supposes people don’t want “or else.”
The D campaign right now seems to be “vote for us, or we’ll lose!” and the response from the voting public generally seems to be “that’s correct!” That should suggest to the Ds in charge that they are WAY off track, but instead they shake their fingers at those of us saying “we TOLD you that you should live up to your campaign promises! NOW what are you gonna do to keep office?” and call us f’ing retarded or say we need to be drug tested.
Tim Kaine tweets:
You mean, like the Dems’ apparent agenda?
We have nothing to fear but fear itself has now changed into we have no reason to vote but fear?
Just what moron came up with that ad strategy?
Who came up with blame the Left your base for why nobody likes your policy? If the Left doesn’t like Obama’s policies does Obama think the Center or the Righty voters will?
The enemy of my enemy is not always going to be your friend Obama. The Baggers hate Black more than they hate Left.
…don’t give ‘em the keys back !
a majority of us handed you guys the keys and you proceeded to creep along the right shoulder with your left turn signal on the whole time
“…what have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? “
Geez.
I’ve drawn the obvious conclusion. Actually I came to that conclusion before your graphic allegory.
They’ll just put the economy further in the shitter faster.
Slurm! the taste that made Milwaukee viscous.
Obama Dems we have ideas! End both wars now and use the money saved to create jobs. Save money with drug price controls and national healthcare. Go green create jobs and stop wasting so much money on oil.
Raise taxes on the rich. Tariffs on everything to protect manufacturing and farm prices.
I loved Schlitz for years -most of which I can’t remember- until they changed it and it sucked. Kind of like the Dems.Schlitz’s demise should be a lesson for the Dems,but alas,they won’t learn it.
Slurms McKenzie for the new DNC mascot!
When bad things happen to good people…
Grim: Democrats Look To Punt On Tax Cut Debate
Gives a whole new meaning to the drunk with a beer in a brown paper bag.
Uh oh, the Obamabots are gonna put you on their list.
I rest my case.
OMG, the metaphors practically write themselves!
You must not have gotten the memo. The WH has decided that for the foreseeable future the U.S. will remain a fossil fuel based economy. All that talk about “green” was nothing more than a carrot.
Wow, do I [heart] this, cbl2!
Jeebus, as if Kaine’s Daily Show catastrophe (we’re the underdog party) didn’t give him the STFU sign loudly enough.
He should be ‘vacationing’ in Guatemala about now.
While agreeing that the Dem government has been disappointing to say the least, and that this is a really lame campaign idea, the sad thing is that it’s true. This clunky, timid Dem government is a life-saver compared to what we’re about to get.
Have you ever seen Tim Kaine in sunglasses?
Just sayin’.
The fear card is all the Dems have in this election. They can tout their imaginary successes but the public ain’t buyin’ it.
The massive turnout in ’08 happened because people felt inspired. Fear will only get a few of them back to the polls.
Might add that Dems appear to have waited until the last six weeks before the election to get serious about campaigning. WTF? What’s the point in keeping your powder dry until the battle is nearly over?
The LST assigned to the Mobile Riverine Force had pontoons moored to both sides of the ship. The river boats moored to the pontoons. During stand down we’d “splice the main brace.” Two beers per man. Schlitz was usually the beer on hand. Not real oold but a beer was a beer.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Gregg Levine and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
As an activist on the ground workin for local and state candidates and tryin ta get the “new voter” base that Obama cultivated to come out this November and tryin ta save my Senator Feingold, I want to tell you what I’ve encountered in the field here. The working folks and young people that voted, many for the first time, for Obama and Democrats 2 years ago are still hurting and still understand that the corporate fascists are the enemy. The biggest resistance to getting to the polls comes from the “usual suspects”, the professional citizen, armchair radicals who are pissed off that they got snookered by Obama and will hold their breath and stay home cuz “that’ll really show ‘em.” If these sunshine progressives would get out here and talk to the folks that matter, those workin folks and young voters I mentioned above, we could save the majorities we won last cycle and keep leverage where it matters most, at the local and district level.
Instead, what is happening right now is that the armchair radicals and would be progressives are bein’ played by their own pique and childish understanding of what it takes to make democracy work. As a result, the folks who are still hurting and don’t look to the Tea Party for answers will stay home because the folks that convinced ‘em to vote 2 years ago are stayin’ home too. The hopelessness I see and hear on the turf in my neigborhood, town and county is bein’ fueled by my brothers and sisters on the left who don’t really understand democracy or what it takes to make it work.
As a result, we are primed for a replay of the last days of Weimar and the corporatists will win not with a bang but a whimper. Wake up Firepups, get out on the street and make contact with those that democracy is designed to serve…if you don’t, you are as responsible as Rahm Emmanuel for the terrible consequences that await us all.
KEEP THE FAITH AND FOR GOD’S SAKE DON’T SHOOT YOUR OWN TROOPS!!
Progressive Party Platform of 1924
1. We pledge a complete housecleaning in the Department of Justice, the Department of the Interior, and the other executive departments. We demand that the power of the Federal Government be used to crush private monopoly, not to foster it.
12. We denounce the mercenary system of foreign policy under recent administrations in the interests of financial imperialists, oil monopolists and international bankers, which has at times degraded our State Department from its high service as a strong and kindly intermediary of defenseless governments to a trading outpost for those interests and concession-seekers engaged in the exploitations of weaker nations, as contrary to the will of the American people, destructive of domestic development and provocative of war.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php
[laughing uncontrollably]
Good for bringing up the Schlitz ad. Democratic messaging since the election of 2008 has become exactly like Schlitz ads. And it is messaging that has hurt legislation and now the general election.
Some nitwit apparently decided that the mood of the public is “I want somebody to hate” and is trying to deflect that to the liberal part of the Democratic base. I’m going to vote Democratic because I have two good candidates here to vote for. I am glad I am not in Jason Altmire’s of Kathy Dahlkemper’s districts; it would be a much tougher choice. And Ed Rendell needs to win both of those if he has ambitions of being chair of the DNC, good party soldier that he is.
You are SO awesome. :)
Well, have you seen the last ten seconds of the clip posted in Teddy Partridge’s excellent diary this morning: LGBT and AIDS Activists Heckle Obama in NYC?
After Obama threatens the protesters with what might happen if they don’t vote Democratic in November, the laughter is widespread and loud.
It is hard to get scared by more of the same.
If you fall thru a crack in their crummy health care ‘reform’.the dems will kill you. If they impoverish people by cutting SS, they will kill people. They do not deserve to occupy public office. And they gotta be voted Out.
A little taste of home.
Take it to the DNC and the WH and put the blame where it belongs
Yeah. I grew up opening my Schlitz with a church key. My dad had a theory that church key’s were the larval form of coat hangers because he could never find a church key and always had to many coat hangers.
What else are they going to say?
“We didnt do almost anything we promised, and infact did a lot we promised we wouldnt do, but give us two more years and we promise it will
Changebe better.”Condescension for the left?
I understand that we have no democracy in America, do you, citizen Norske?
How ya doin’?
LOL
Hey, Democrats, ya’ drive like McCain!
They’re not even promising to do better as that would be an admission of failure. All they’ve got is “the other guys suck even worse.”
Citizen Elliott:
I AM puttin the blame where it belongs…right on those like you who will gladly stay home and encourage others to stay home and let go of the last thread connecting us to power. No, dear, if the fascists like Rahm Emmanuel win this November, it is you and folks like you who we will have to thank. This is not a joke, Citizen, give up your vote this November and you may not get another…for Christ’s sake, wakeup!!
*sigh*
thanks for asking
They’ll be better than McCain of keeping track of the Houses they own. Answer: zero.
We have seen how effective a minority party can stop the majority parties agenda (or so the Kabuki suggests). So why again should we be scared of a Rethug majority? It wont be fillibuster or veto proof, so whats really to be scared of? I dont care if they start investigations on Dems. That sounds more productive than more legislation selling us out to their (dems and rethugs) corporate overlords.
Well, at least the Dem powers that be are worried — it’s better than clueless. However, if their congressional majorities survive this election, will we get anything in exchange for our votes? Or will we be quickly forgotten until 2012 rolls around>
RCP has a poll out showing 45% of Independents are sympathetic to the Tea Party and their cause. It doesnt help one damn bit when the Democrats are telling people they are extreme whackos when almost 50% of the Independents are sympathetic to the Tea Party. We are causing “UNDERDOG” SYNDROME” by doing this. If we had any merits or progress to run on it would be better to run on them.
The “New and Improved Congress” is just like any other product.
More expensive, disappointing, and basically the same as the old product with less in the box!
I will vote, but only because I hate to see what little is left of America to be swallowed up and washed away. It certainly is not because of the threat or due to any Progressive measures congress acted on.
Yeah, I’m surprised the Ds got outside the bubble long enough to notice that they might not get reelected. Though too late to do anything about it.
Deluded and presumptuous, as usual.
What I’m not already?
Fuck Them!
Absolutely! It’s way too late and if they don’t pay attention, the ones that aren’t up this go round will get booted in two years!
Disagree Norske is telling the truth.
Citizen fuckno:
We have a very sick politics and we still have the vote, which means that the idea of democracy is still alive…but if we choose to stay home we give away the idea. This is no joke, Citizen, and if you don’t vote you are as responsible as Rahm Emmanuel for the results. This whole idea that “we have no democracy in America” is a meaningless cop out, a nihilistic, semantically empty self fullfilling prophecy that will surely comfort you in the work camps. Get a clue!!
Brilliant.
The expected retort: “…but at least we’re not in the ditch.”
Me too.
LS
Citizen ratfood:
When I see you out in the neigborhood, knockin on doors and talkin to folks then your opinion about ANYthing will resonate…until then you have been snookered by the fascists and I don’t wantcha in my foxhole.
If you can tell me how you plan to get rid of the ‘protecting the minority rights’ Senate, I just might get on board.
You think he’s right in attacking Elliott for staying home on election day? He doesn’t know that. In any event, his browbeating will never inspire one person to do what he wants. It’s simply bullying.
When you knock on doors do you attack your neighbors or is that behavior reserved for fellow commenters?
The Schiltz metaphor is very apt.
The Dems are screwing up their brand in a major way. Lots of Dems are disgusted by the watered down swill we are offered as a substitute for meaningful legislation and reform.
You are telling the people who got Con by Obama and other Dems to keep voting for the Con Artist, because they are less evil than the tea baggers.
Have you read the Health Care Bill written by the Con Artist that call themselves Dems? How much worse could the tea baggers have made it, you do know that the health care bill Obama pass was written by Bob Dole?
You want Unions to vote for people like Blanche Lincoln, because they are better than the Tea Baggers?
You want Old People to vote for the Obama and his fellow trojan horses who plan to cut Social Security? Why?
You do know evil, is evil!
Are you planning to write the same post in 2012? Vote for the lesser of two evils? base on you war strategy you will ve writing this post in 2012 telling us to vote for OBAMA, because he is a better devil, the republican devil.
The funniest part of your post is it our fought if the tea party wins, you do know Obama pick Rahm, not US! Obama also pick Alan SImpson
I can see you fighting for Russ Feingold he is one of the few good ones, but asking progressives to keep voting for Con Artist is crazy.
Obama mission was to wreck the democratic party, our mission as progressives is to rid the democratic party of trojan horses like Obama, Max Baucus, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, etc.
Remember this simple truth, it only takes one person to change the world.
So the search for one good progressive continues.
Obama is making it easy for a modern day Robin Hood to rise and give the elites hell.
By the way the tea party is an experiment gone very bad, the elites, the dems, the rich republicans all hate the Tea Party. Like they say an enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Every time I hear that patronizing “get over it” it pisses me off.
Do they really think it is going to get people to vote for them?
Citizen ratfood:
Talk to ME, Citizen, don’t go after those who agree with me…take ME on. This passive-agressive, condescendingly cynical, clap trap that comes from you and those like you is the fuel that the corporatists count on to maintain control…it’s a good deal like cowardess.
Amen RF.
Norske is good people, of that I have no doubt. But even good people can have a bad day, and this bullying bullshit transferring of the blame from the Democratic Party to the voters is just that, bullshit.
They work for us, we don’t work for them. And they DO NOT HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO OUR VOTE, no matter how many ways Norske claims they do. They want our votes, they earn them, just like adults who want money for some new toy, they earn it.
Members of the Obama appointed
Catfoodratfood commision:House Democrats: Xavier Becerra (CA), Jan Schakowsky (IL), John Spratt (SC).
House Republicans: Dave Camp (MI), Jeb Hensarling (TX), Paul Ryan (WI).
Senate Democrats: Max Baucus (MT), Kent Conrad (D-ND), Dick Durbin (D-IL).
Senate Republicans: Mike Crapo (ID), Judd Gregg (NH), Tom Coburn (OK).
President Obama: In addition to Bowles and Simpson – Andy Stern, president, Service Employees International Union; Dave Cote, president and CEO, Honeywell; Ann Fudge, former CEO, Young & Rubicam Brands; Alice Rivlin, senior fellow, Brookings.
I responded to you Norske, you need to read faster. Anyway, your responses are so predictable that it is pointless to engage. Wishing you a pleasant day, citizen. :)
the Soviet Union had the vote, but no meaningful Choice, just as here.
most peasants there did not self-delude as heavily as here, and knew it was an empty sham.
we have more sophisticated marketing, indoctrination by far, better red white and blue graphics on the screen, better propaganda, but really, we on the ground are as utterly powerless in relation to the affairs of state in D.C as a factory worker in Irktursk under Brezhnev.
Senator Feingold, ironically, is one of the very few worth caring about, but not because he is a Democrat, but because of who he is, the hard positions he has fought for. The Democratic Party, as a national institution, stands for the opposite of all that, as Obama and Joe Biden exemplify.
Citizen jedimsnbcko:
No I’m NOT tellin folks to vote for Obama…the last I looked Obama wasn’t on the ballot. I am tellin folks to get active at the local level, vote for those who are closest to your values and who won’t get elected unless you and your friends vote for ‘em. THAT’s democracy and it ain’t easy and sometimes ya lose…but if ya don’t vote you stand to lose more’n an election. All politics and all democracy is local…and sometimes ya “don’t always get what you want” but you keep ahold of the means to get it.
It’s not my fault people aren’t interested in voting, it’s Obama’s fault and the D leadership, and I use that term advisably.
If I could vote for Feingold, I would — but it isn’t my fault people aren’t enthusiastic.
Thanks dood. Hope you got your raincoat handy as the forecast predicts heavy spittle headed your way… “g”
We work for those that lobby them and give them money…i.e., they don’t work for us…they work for corporate handouts, and that makes the system fascist per the definition. JMHO
LS
What you describe is correct, but we ain’t got the choices you speak off because the game is rigged in favor of the rentier class by the bipartisan protection racket you fancifully call democracy.
Democrats, progressives, Blue Dogs and all shades in between, will get out and vote despite the disappointment engendered by the current administration. Should the Dems lose one or both houses of Congress it will not be due to the “professional left” staying home, they’ll be voting, it will be due to the fact that Obama lost the “independents” the low information voters. He had them and because of his timid approach to governing, fearing that taking a principled and strong stand might endanger his bipartisan fantasy, he has now lost them. He apparently thought the electorate was more concerned with bipartisanship rather than transformational change that might have improved the lives of the independents. One lost opportunity after another.
This is what I focused on, too. You can’t suddenly turn the product into crap and expect customers to remain loyal. No amount of advertising is likely to fix that, IMHO. That’s what Democrats need to remember.
Hiding behind shower curtains?
WTF does that mean?
Methinks Ed’s got some body image and privacy issues.
“Good afternoon, ITRR. May I help you?”
Citizen OldFatGuy:
Because you are a straight shooter I will tell you now what most people around here are runnin away from. I been out on turf and on the telephone with the “folks” and these are people who don’t and won’t vote for Teabaggers or out of the closet fascists, they just won’t vote. That hopelessness and despair comes from their everyday experience and those who encourage them to let go of their vote are worse than Rahm Emmanuel. That is where it’s at…democracy is an idea, it’s never finished and the cure for a sick democracy is more fuckin democracy. It’s simple but frankly I’m tired of all the bullshit rhetoric around here. If you don’t vote and you make fun of others who do you are as dangerous as any fascist.
Oh Governor Ed: ” a leetle disappointed over this, a leetle disappointed over that?” Don’t make me laugh, we are severely disappointed over many, many things and totally disenchanted with a Democratic Party that hasn’t done shit since the great return to power in November, 2006. “The stakes are huge?” for “professional Democrats” like you and Rahm E. and hapless cheerleaders like Joe Biden and Tim Kaine. Who could have expected that Rahm’s take the base for granted and line our pockets with every lobbyist’s dollars would backfire and cause the potential demise of this whole Democratic Party shell-game!
Let The Tea Party and Boehner and Cantor and Bachmann have their day in the sun; they will melt like the frigging vampires they are and then maybe some real progressive Democrats can replace these “idiots and assholes” who are posing as leaders!
Sorry I must have mis-read your post.
I agree a huge part of Obama and the other trojan horses that have invaded the democratic party number one mission was to suppress democratic voter turn out, to keep the nation moving in a rightward direction.
Obama number 1 mission in 2008, was to keep progressives out of power and keep the progressive agenda from taking over DC. Obama the trojan horse accomplished this tasked
Norske, you can’t ask people to vote democrat because it is in their best interest. Base on the reports from Jane, Glenn, and others just because someone says they are a democrat does not make them a friend of the middle class. Progressives around the nation, because of the work of people like Jane, Glenn, and others now know, who some of our enemies are in DC and they all don’t call themselves republicans.
Good luck with your efforts helping Russ.
For those trojans horse who think they have a home in the Democratic party, they are in for a very rude awakening.
Dems were banking on the idea that it doesn’t matter if the product is crap if the label says “new and improved.” The fallback position is, “Our product is less rancid than the leading competitor’s.”
I would like to make something positive out of this vote vs. no vote battle. But I need help from those smarter than I. What I was thinking was that there must be a way to make our vote conditional on at least pursuit of a set of policies that parallel Obama promises and rhetoric both before and after his election.
For example, I will show up and vote for D incumbents if:
–a strong public option is pursued as promised
–increases in SS benefits and a reduction in retirement age are sought
–reinstatement of Glass-Steagle is the goal
You get the idea. Make our showing up and voting conditional on pursuit of a set of reasonable goals that we thought we would have achieved by now.
Is that feasible — on a national level, across races?
I think Dems were/are banking on progressives being of a similar IQ to Tea Party types, or that progressives are really big on being completely loyal to their “team” no matter what, similar to many Republican types.
When Schlitz went out of business, so did the reason for a great play on words joke.
Schlitz had a commercial slogan: “When you’re out of Schlitz, your out of beer”
Joke:
This fellow decides to count the number of openings between boards in a long pier extending into a deep lake. As he counted, he became quite focussed on the count, and failed to recognize that he was approaching the end of the pier. Unfortunately, he fell off the end and drowned.
The moral of the story? (Yep!)
“When you are out out slits, you’re out of pier”
I used to do commercial disk cuttings for Leo Burnett in the early 60′s. Was mostly unimpressed with their output. But that’s me, I suppose!
In the Bush years the strategy was to use the three Gs — Guns, God, Gays — to mobilize the base and they would turn out.
In the Obama years it seems to be “Don”t worry about the base. Where they going to go anyway? We need big money donations to win the media war. It’s all about television.”
You got that right.
The conditionality is voting them out when they fail you. Unfortunately Dem voters fail on the follow up. Where behavior is not penalized, it’s reinforced.
The slogan was a bit different among us girls at the beach.. Be sure to keep the sand out your Schlitz. or Don’t get sand in your Schlitz.
Sort of a Contract with Progressives
And there’s a lot of truth in that. Which is why I hope everyone votes. Even if you’re unhappy with the Dems performance, vote. Always vote. Register you opinion in whatever way you need to.
I can’t call someone that chooses not to vote as dangerous as any fascist, but I can agree with the premise can’t I?
I, for one (and there have been many others) have pleaded with folks to vote. Always vote even if you don’t vote for the federal spots there are always local and state issues that deserve progressives input. And I damn sure hope, and believe, there are very good, very decent, and real progressive DEMOCRATS out there running in some localities, and by doG they deserve all the support they can get.
I would very much like to send a message to the national party that we aren’t gonna take this corporatist shit anymore, but at the same time it is crucial to have another wave of Dems to take these corporatists place.
By all means do the local work, I applaud you for that and I do what I can do also. The only place you and I disagree on is my desire to have the sitting D’s face consequences for their piss poor performance, whereas you and many others would prefer those consequences be handed out in primaries.
I understand that, respect it, but disagree to the extent that IMO they need to face the necessary consequences even if that means in the general. IMO sometimes it may be necessary to take two steps backwards in order to get around a wall, and these corporate D’s have put up a big wall stalling all progressive goals. If the national Democratic Party got clobbered, and the next set of new national Democrats behave differently because of it, then IMO it is well worth a little more insanity.
Better you tell it than I!
I knew that one too.
I know how you feel. I feel much the same way. But a more constructive approach is to outline (yes, I know, once again) what it will take to get our vote. That way, the ball (and blame) is in their court.
Regarding the Democrats’s election strategy, I’m reminded of the time when
Simon Cowell remarked on Britain’s Got Talent,
“Sounds a bit like three cats being dragged up the motorway.”
I feel a sense of the non-linear breaking point in US politics right now. No matter which way to vote.
Not showing up to vote is not an option for me, but doing write-ins where I can on any issue or candidate is.
Remember, he claimed that HCR and FinReg were just a start. Hold him to it.
Then I would advise you to check out the outlined Dem Party platforms from say, Carter and on to 2008.
If you feel that the previous promises have been met to your satisfaction, then carry on.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php
The Dems who leave office will be handsomely rewarded for their corporate service. In an election cycle or two voters will be completely pissed and Republicans will be voted out of office to receive their reward.
The point is, we have little leverage over pols who no longer fear losing their bids for reelection. The only time they have to woo the voters is on their first attempt and of course that’s all just a lot of hot air.
I agree that it is important for people to at least vote in their local elections. As long as you’re there don’t leave the state and federal lines blank. If there’s no good candidate write somebody in.
Norske can have his say we can disagree with him. Norske can even be rude if he wants too a debate about staying home on election day. Voting only for Lefties I’m voting Feingold too but no I won’t vote for Blue Dogs I will vote Green or Socialist instead does need to be had at the Lake.
We must do this before we form a third party now if Norske was defending a Blue Dog instead of Feingold well I’d be looking for a pod.
Norske is concerned about Feingold I think the guy deserves our support personally if all the blue Dogs lose I think that sends a message.
But if we lose Progressives that sends the wrong message.
What is it with Feingold? We have heard little from him since Obama came in. I wonder if he is just dispirited with the direction Obama has taken. I always admire him for his resolute stand for civil liberties. Not much room for that with Obama.
Rendell says, “We’ve been scared.” Um, no. Rendell, Rahm and Obama may be scared. I’m just plain furious.
If he was referring specifically to Feingold I missed that amid the froth.
I didn’t realize the future of civilization hinges on the outcome in Wisconsin but now that I know, “Go Russ!” :)
Well, if Obama had solidified his base over the last 2 years instead of using his political capital to kiss GOP ass and pass corporate friendly legisliation (and getting a public option passed instead of killing it because of a back room deal with the Pharma industry), the Dem base might be more inclined to come out and vote.
This is really one interesting election coming up. Apparently nothing is quite what it seems. The latest CNN/Times poll show O’Donnell down by 55 to 39. Did people in Delaware suddenly wake up?
You missed the point. The way to hold their feet to the fire is to get them to commit to certain actions going forward. If they won’t commit, it’s on them. They don’t get the vote. We can do kabuki too, you know.
Of course, for those who have already decided to withhold their vote, this is irrelevant.
Just as the GOP exorcised all the moderates from their party, Dems are quietly purging progressives from theirs. Russ has little support from the party, he might as well be running as an independent. That could even improve his chances but of course it’s too late now.
You’re encouraged by a whackjob with almost 40% of the vote? That’s respectable — within striking distance.
Once O’Donnell got the nom her insane statements became newsworthy. That old saw about there being no such thing as bad publicity doesn’t hold true in her case. She can run but she can’t hide.
and how do you do that, legal contract?
The poll shows that if Castle had won, he would be leading Coons by 55 to 37. This tells me that the Rs had better get behind their less radical candidates because these wingers could kill them in the end.
Got my signs up for Feingold, donated and wrote local papers. Lots of ideas at FDL on how to word my reasoning, much obliged to all of you smarter than me. Have (8th District) Kagen, needs to stay, a repugnant R State AG that does not think a DA who texted the victim in a sex abuse trial for a date is unethical behavior worth punishing, a local sherrif’s race and a local state rep race that deserve my participation. Not to mention the gov’s race which is a no-brainer for Barrett.
40% according to the poll.
Polling is no longer “strictly” scientific, in that they no longer choose respondents at random, ask their opinion, and add them all up and come up with percentages based strictly on math. It has become more subjective and because of that, I don’t even know how any poll can really be trusted. If voting machines really are rigged (and I’m not there yet personally, if I were I wouldn’t be wasting my time here) then and you have subjective polling, almost any outcome could be concievable. Including a total nutjob like Sharon Angle running within the margin of error of the Senate Majority Leader.
And it’s out now that she is using campaign funds to pay her rent. And heaven knows what else.
I agree with most of this.
But there are folks around who don’t have incumbent Democrats to beat up on. So they should send the same message about corporate BS to the Republicans.
The reality is that there are 68 seats in play in the House and 16 in the Senate. Outside of some of those races, it’s gonna be tough to send any message to the winning candidate. Probably 20 of the House seats in play are Blue Dogs; the rest run the gamut and include Alan Grayson and Tom Perriello.
Worst case is a 246R-189D House, with Steny Hoyer in the chute to be Speaker if and when Democrats regain power. And a 51R-49D Senate with 7 Tea Party Senators. Best case is a 285D-170R House, Nancy Pelosi as Speaker. And a 67D-33R Senate with no Tea Party Senators. Conventional wisdom is at a roughly 230R-205D House and a 52D-48R Senate. Issa can impeach but not convict in the conventional wisdom estimate.
See, she’s even to stupid to do the right thing, – take the real big perks afterwards.
I’m so glad that came out before the election. The (phony) premise of the Tea Party is that the government should be fiscally responsible. Pretty hard for O’Donnell to lay claim to that mantle when she’s stealing from her own campaign contributors.
But messages can be sent even in races that aren’t in play.
For example, let’s say you have a heavy D district, and it currently has a D corporatist. Now I’m betting somewhere in that district there are more progressive possibilities, and the goal is to get them interested. And if on election day the results are the corporate D 70%, the R 29%, and other 1%, then that sends an entirely different message to potential challengers than if the election day results were corporate D 55%, R 31%, and other 14%. Any potential challenger would see a much better chance with the latter results than the former, and that makes it more likely someone may challenge the corporate D.
I think FDL needs a “Contract with Progressives.”
Just a thought.
Some pollsters (Rasmussen) seek to drive the narrative to help one of the parties. Gallup is pretty old school; I don’t think their methods have changed. Nate Silver is trying to build a good predictive model, but it is still essentially in a testing and feedback stage. It did pretty good in 2008. If it is as accurate this year it tracks the conventional wisdom.
But all polls that are not strictly random fail this year because they are using the last three elections in their estimating model. Voter sentiment is in flux because of a general anger at incumbents.
At the very least it would give the kossacks something new to fume about.
Not all states have “other”. And using the write-in for “other” requires that you enter it validly for your state. Invalid write-ins get disqualified. And some states don’t report write-ins unless there is some reason to–large turnout for, close election, etc. In opinion polls, your argument is correct. But the D has to see the size of the “other” vote for it to be a warning and the R would have to see the size of the “other” vote to consider a challenge.
Primaries work better because you have and alternative candidate and can test your ability to create enthusiasm for the primary challenger and your organization in turning out voters.
An excellent idea.
Before they made that first change I drank coke a lot. They made the change and it tasted really bad, so I stopped drinking it. When they came out and said “Hey,ok, we’re sorry” and changed it “back”,I tried to drink it. It was different, but it was not the same as what they had at first. I never went back.
But it wasn’t a threat. I don’t respond well to threats, and I do believe that one of the most enduring human emotions is revenge. The way I see it, these people – Obama and his “cabinet”, the house and senate democrats – have pretty much trashed whatever I thought was good about this country, and have defiled some of it’s most redeeming qualities. I do vote, and I do give money to political causes. The Dems will receive no money from me, and any voting for incumbents I do will be very critical of their past record.
I used to think that allowing Reps in was tantamount to letting the foxes in with the chickens, but maybe it’s time to thin the herd.
I think progressives should continue to support
good Senate and House candidates. Either through
donations or by working for the candidate,if you live
there-or have time to spend there. Feingold,for me,
is one of those good candidates. As we see from Sen.
Coburn,one Senator can put a hold on something as
crucial as food safety. Progressive Senators ought
to be able to return the favor on things we don’t
want-like Social Security cuts,Bush tax extenders
for the wealthy. Just to be clear,I’m not donating
to the National Committees,nor do I open any mail
from them.
You’re wrong. Phonygold doesn’t fight for tough positions. If had taken the hard road and put a public option amendment on the Senate floor he wouldn’t be in the pickle he’s now in. Symbolic votes for or against measures that will pass (or not pass) anyway isn’t courageous.
I’m betting that if Phonygold could get in the time machine and go back and change his HCR vote, he’d do it in a heartbeat.
one Senator can put a hold on something as
crucial as food safety.
how many holds has Finegold put?
I wasn’t suggesting a vote for actual “other,” it’s just a descriptive term to define all other votes.
And although a lot of states don’t report write-ins unless there is some threshold met, they do still count them as part of the total vote. So for example, the D got 550 votes, the R got 310 votes, and various write-ins accounted for 140 votes, the final tally you would see would show D-55%, R-31%, even if they don’t report the total of all others.
Absolutely correct, and spot on. They completely misread the reality of the situation. They forgot that ultimately, votes count more than contibutions.
As opposed to the Obamarahma contract on progressives?
Well,it’s good to see people finally figuring that Maddow & others @ MSNBC are shilling for the WH…..& thus corporations….
I find it telling that a letter the (progressive caucus??? I think?) is circulating for signatures pledging to oppose any cut in benefits or rise in retirement age, wrt social security, from the catfood commission can only garner between 20-25% of sitting Democrats in the House. If that doesn’t tell you something about the state of the national D’s in Washington right now, I don’t know what it would take.
Imagine only getting between 20-25% support for holding firm on social security?? From DEMOCRATS!! I want my party back.
I agree, but I would appreciate your comments on “progressive” members of congress who chose to cave on HCR, financial reform, and are silent on SS cuts. My congressman is one of them. What do you think of these politicians? I will vote but my question is how do progressives plan ahead when some of their congress people are so weak or ambivalent on important issues.
And they won’t even pretend to stand firm on SS in an ELECTION year. I’m telling you, they don’t care if they’re reelected. As long as they fluff the banks and corporations while they’re in office they’ll clean up in the private sector.
Yeah, I do see your point. They really don’t care if they face consequences from us.
But even though they don’t care, shouldn’t we still show the door anyway? I think we should, but then what do you do about that problem? I never really looked at the not caring aspect until just now from your post. Dammit, what do we have left to do? Are we really getting to the point of the only way change is gonna happen is outside of the system? Man I hoped it would never come to that.
You can bank on the outside. The economy, the capitalist edifice is crumbling in real time, (not MSM real time) but crumbling. When the depression hits, all bets will be off, and it’s right around the corner judging from much chatter outside of the Bloomberg, CNBC talking heads.
I think “hiding behind shower curtains” means this time Norman Bates is on the opposite side of the shower curtain.
Forget a Recession, The Empire is Crumbling, at the top of Zerohedge as we type.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/forget-recession-empire-crumbling
“It wont be fillibuster or veto proof, so whats really to be scared of?”
Gridlock looks very attractive right now. And nothing will expose Obama’s true colors like having to wield the veto pen.
“.. will we get anything in exchange for our votes?”
Remember Lucy and the football?
precisely.
I say he’s naked.
And yet they remind me of the ‘investigations’ that should have happened and ‘subpoena power’ that went unused. Now we know why – they’re just too scary.
Yup, there are only a handfull of progressives in congress and most of them will still play the rotating villian role to retain their corporate donations.
We will NEVER have enough true progressives in congress to deliver us from evil. The game is rigged, voting dems straight ticket does nothing. Hoping we are gonna eventually get enough good dems voted in is insanity.
I feel like it’s hopeless because it is. This country is in a downward spiral and voting in 2010 (and 2012) isn’t going to change that trajectory one bit…
I wish I was asleep.
You mean when I had a job and the economy was booming? Bring it on!
I wish I knew the solution. Since limiting the influence of corporations would require legislation and the House and Senate will never vote against their own selfish interests it looks grim.
My suspicion is that the kleptocrats will continue their looting and ransacking until they’ve undermined everything to the point where it all collapses. Despite what some might fear the collapse won’t happen overnight (unless China calls in our tab). The U.S. can limp along for years with the middle-class eroding and swelling the ranks of the poor while the rich get richer. Makes me glad I don’t have progeny, though.
But then, I’m just an incurable optimist. :)
What galled me was Rendell’s criticism of Maddow on how bad the HCR sucked and how even though some of it went into effect yesterday, I still can’t get medical insurance. I am not working, I can’t get UI, I don’t qualify for Medicaid, so what are my choices?
The reforms still force you into the arms of the private-for-profit health insurance system. California’s SB810 was not voted on recently and will be re-submitted I would guess if Brown is elected because the likelihood of eMeg backing such a plan is unlikely when she’s determine to reduce the size of Government no matter what the outcome.
I have to vote Dem to put Brown in office and not eMeg. I have to vote for Boxer because I don’t want iCarly. I will vote all the Progressive issues that need to be voted locally.
That does not mean I am happy with the overall direction and I feel the only way to show your dissatisfaction is to vote with your feet, by becoming an expat, so many Americans after drinking (America is the greatest) Kool-Aid so long that they believe they would be worst off if they left.
I don’t understand that. Especially if your unemployed here and can find work overseas, I would do it.
Step One: voters don’t like Dems, are “unenthusiastic.”
Step Two: Dems threaten voters, say that voters will be “responsible” if Repubs are elected.
Step Three: Now voters are “really enthusiastic” — if by “enthusiastic” you mean completely pissed at Democrats and their dead-weight, do-nothing ways.
Step They Forgot: “Getting mad” [i.e., voters, after being scolded by Dems] does NOT equal “enthusiasm” [i.e., going to the polls and voting for Dems].
I’m pretty f***ing scared over the idea of Rendell hiding behind my shower curtain — particularly if he’s just taken a shower in there!!