Vice President Joe Biden made room in his busy schedule Wednesday to appear on “The Rachel Maddow Show” to address the much-reported enthusiasm gap between fired-up Tea-publicans and a disappointed Democratic base. How do I know that was his reason? He said so:
What I’m doing. . . one of the reasons I wanna be on your show is to tell the progressives out there, you know, get in gear, man. First of all, there’s a great deal at stake.
No duh. Really? Progressives are the ones that need to be reminded that there’s a great deal at stake?
But wait, there’s more. Biden then launches into a list of Democratic accomplishments—tobacco regulation, hate crime laws, insuring kids (SCHIP, I presume—you will excuse me if I don’t transcribe every word, Joe does go on a bit, you know)—none of them, as best I recall, ones that were first enacted during the Obama Administration [on this point, I stand corrected, but that raises other questions], and tries to contrast this out-of-date list with, well, for lack of any specific point, let’s call it the Republican alternative:
If they take over the House and the Senate, don’t kid yourself. They’ve made it really clear. Pete Sessions said [if the GOP takes over Congress], “We’d have the exact same agenda.” And look, there is a lot at stake here, and our progressive base, you have–you should not stay home. You better get energized because the consequences are serious for the outcome of the things we care most about. And I didn’t mention half the stuff we’ve gotten done.
Actually, Mr. Vice President, you didn’t mention a single thing that your administration or this Democratically controlled 111th Congress has gotten done. You are just telling progressives out there that they “better get energized,” that they “get in gear,” that they “should not stay home” come November.
Why? Because. . . because. . . Pete Sessions!
Joe Biden is not saying Democrats need an excited progressive base to win in November, and here is what the administration is going to do to excite them; Biden is saying Dems need an excited base—so the progressive base damn well better get excited. Period.
Don’t believe that the same folks that swept into the White House on a wave of popular enthusiasm could now be pitching this piss-poor woo? Biden was given a chance to clarify. He said that Obama is a gifted politician, but he didn’t “fall out of the sky.” Instead:
What he [Obama] brought out of the sky, down to earth, were really significant progressive goals that have been met.
Wait, what? He brought us goals? Obama gave us the goals? Progressives haven’t been articulating goals since. . . when now? 2006? 2002? 1932? 1916? . . . 1899? OK, maybe Biden just phrased that badly–but still, Joe, what goals have been met, exactly?
Sorry, I interrupted. Mr. Vice President, please continue. . . .
What he [Obama] brought out of the sky, down to earth, were really significant progressive goals that have been met. More to do, more to do. And so I think it’s time for our base to say, “Hey man, take a look, this opposition is for real.”
OK, again, the progressive base hasn’t been warning about the opposition? It has been the progressive blogosphere, far out in front of any Democratic Party organ, that has been telling the establishment that they had created space for the Tea Parties by aligning the White House too closely with the banksters. It was progressives that begged for a bigger stimulus, a jobs agenda, and health care reform that actually helped people and did so before the midterm elections. Jane, early on, warned folks not to take the Tea Party movement (movements?) too lightly. She, Jon, Scarecrow, David, and a host of others on FDL have all pleaded for Democrats to move more aggressively or else incur the wrath of a nervous electorate.
Why, just last night, I tweeted:
O’Donnell & Paladino’s GOP victories should remind prematurely giddy Dems that GOTV will be everything in November.
Does that sound like the twitterings of a guy that does not think “this opposition is for real?”
But that is not the narrative that Biden, his administration, or the Democratic leadership wants to tell here. Joe didn’t come out saying that progressives had the right idea, and though Dems had stumbled out of the gate, from here on it would be full speed ahead; “More to do, more to do,” doesn’t come close. Make no mistake, what Joe Biden was doing last night was blaming progressives now for Democratic losses later.
Maddow, maybe out of deference, maybe out of amnesia, took Biden’s frame as a given and asked, Why hasn’t the needed progressive awakening happened organically?
Joe invokes his grandpa, then reminds us that a lot of people are hurting, and that folks are angry and don’t want to make a choice. He recalls the words of Kevin White (Mayor of Boston, 1968-1984): “Don’t compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. . . .”
Joe liked that quote, so he repeated it:
“Don’t compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. . . .” People haven’t wanted to make that choice, they don’t want to focus yet. . . . . It’s like, “I don’t want to be bothered–I’m angry.” . . . but they’re gonna now, watch them. . . starting the beginning of October, they’re gonna focus. And the alternatives are stark between a Democratic-led House and Democratic-led Senate and a Republican-led House and Senate. . . . We are going to retain control of the House, we are going to retain control of the Senate because, when the American people focus on the alternative, it’s gonna be absolutely clear to them that there is no alternative.
Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, I was a consultant—of the branding and marketing variety–and Biden’s performance reminds me of some of my worst clients from those days. These guys (and gals) would sit behind the two-way mirror watching focus groups, and they would deride the respondents and curse about how their stupid target consumers were wrong—wrong!–about their product. It was the consumer who was doing a bad job of understanding the product. It was the consumer that was not paying attention to the right things. It was the consumer that had failed to understand the benefits of these clients’ brands.
Those were not successful brands. And without a change in their point of view, they didn’t become successful brands.
Let me put it this way: Joe Biden is your cable provider screaming that they are better than the phone company, and you know they are better than the phone company, and if you don’t know that, no matter what your experience, then it is your problem, you fucking idiot.
Compelling messaging, huh?
It didn’t work for my clients, and it won’t work for the Democrats.
It is not enough to say, “C’mon, you know how bad the other guys are.” It is not enough to say, ”Buy my product, or else.” It is not enough to say (as Jon Stewart pointed out to DNC Chair Tim Kaine), “They suck worse.”
If you want to bridge the enthusiasm gap, it is you, Joe Biden, President Obama, national Democrats, that have to provide the enthusiasm. And the reasons for all of us to be enthused.
Another lesson from my consulting days: it is never good to be the “not” brand. That is, it is never good to define yourself as “not the other guys.” By doing that, you are dependent on them. By doing that, they define the space. All that is left for you to do is react to your competition.
In a competitive marketplace—especially in one where you don’t have to buy, where you could just opt to stay home—you have to give people a reason to commit. You need to articulate a distinct benefit.
You need to give folks a reason to vote for you; not just against them.
Without demonstrable benefits—or at least the promise of them—there is no enthusiasm. The winners of the 2008 Democratic presidential primaries should understand that.
But benefits were not what Vice President Biden was selling to Rachel Maddow and her presumably progressive audience on Wednesday. Biden went with fear and loathing, blame and bluster. That strategy didn’t work for my clients in boom times, and it won’t work for Democrats now.
So, Joe, uh–how did you put it?—get in gear!



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You don’t sound very enthusiastic.
Shut up Biden. We’re on to your game.
The Democrats keep telling me that they NEED me in November. Well, I’ve NEEDED a job since January of 2009. Sux to NEED things from people who won’t deliver doesn’t it Democrats? For my part, I’m going to treat them a hell of a lot better than they treated me but not because they NEED me.
I must admit after contemplating the list of nutbags now in the race, voting for the least worst may be my reluctant choice. The inmates are trying to take over the asylum, and it may motivate me to vote Dem despite my original inclination to sit this one out.
On edit: Gregg, I agree with everything you said about Biden and this administration. I have little hope that they will change their messaging or their actions now.
So two months ago, the Obama regime was telling the dirty fucking hippies to sit down and shut up. Now they’re complaining because the dirty fucking hippies aren’t “enthusiastic” enough? You fucking morons should have thought about that while you spent two years on your knees sucking Republican cock.
Nice to be loved — NOW — right?
Um Joe, What the hell have you done for me lately?
My contempt for you and your ilk knows no bounds!
Exactly. It’s fucking insulting. They shit on you and then ask for your help. Fuck that, right wing Demos. You work for the corporate criminals.
What’s at stake, exactly? We’ve been told the Democrats can’t do anything in the Senate with 60 votes, so why is 52-53 a big deal?
howz that saying go?;
“if you can’t bring Mohammed to the mountain bring the mountain to Mohammed”?
sorry, obama is not Mohammed
obama needs to come to the mountain if he want’s the mountain’s support, otherwise he’s history and good ridance to him
he’s more damaging then a republican since he can make believe he’s being moderate with his right wing nut legislation
I was going to vote regardless. Because I’m infuriated at Obama and Emanuel and Reid and Hoyer and Summers and Geithner and Gibbs and Salazar, (the list is enormous), isn’t a good reason for me not to support my Rep or Bill White. Refusing to vote for somebody because they have a “D” is no different than reflexively voting for someone who has an “R” and it makes exactly as much sense: None. Our system sucks ass but the fact remains that if we “punish” the Democrats, we reward that nutbags on the right. And rewarding the nutbags on the right means voting for decades of misery to come. Period.
I would never tell folks not to vote. I always vote; I think everyone should vote. . . every time. . . even if you write in your choices. Not engaging is rewarding all of them. A cynical, disengaged electorate is just what the corporatist doctors ordered.
But that’s me. I am a politics geek. This stuff is always in my head. For other potential voters, they may have bigger worries on election day, and if Dems really, sincerely want them at the polls, they have to do a whole lot more than say “Republicans suck more than we do.”
As a member of the “professional left” I’m fucking retarded.
But I’m not going to stay home in November– I’m going to vote for an alternative party as a protest. Probably the Green Party.
Don’t sugar-coat it ‘dave. Tell us how you really feel. *g*
Thanks, Gregg.
Yup. I was going to get that. . . but it was getting kind of long ;)
Yeah. Take note of how they are cynically throwing us a few ultimately tiny bones….just before November. I remember being called “f*cking retarded” and told that I need to be drug tested. They are going to have to do much better than that to get me to support them in 2012. Like I said, I’m not going to punish my rep for what the Democratic leadership is doing but it will be a cold day in hell before Obama gets another vote from me. I’ll write my own name in first.
I’m peeved. ;)
Yep. I’ve been saying for months that “We don;t suck as much as the other guys” isn’t the way to motivate people to vote but apaprently that’s all they have and all Tim Kaine can come up with.
Do we give up a future vacation to donate to the Democratic party so they can send our meager earnings to the likes of Blanche Lincoln, or support the ideas of Larry Summers, or set up yet another pro-business stimulus?
Do we walk with our canes door-to-door in the waning years of our life for Democrats who appoint Alan Simpson to a Social Security kill commitee?
Do we make calls for a party that elevates someone who says “F_ck the UAW?”
Or do we finally light the torches, march outside, buy tar and feathers, and scare the feces out of these arrogant, gated community aristocrats?
Very nicely stated.
Draw up the full list and you risk exploding the servers, I’m afraid. heh..
Yeah and though I’m unemployed, even I don’t have that kind of time.
And rightly so.
If I may respectfully submit, you really need to stop sugar-coating the message. heh
Yeah, so, this Congress actually did pass all that stuff. They finished off landmark tobacco legislation last summer, passed an expanded hate crimes law with protections for LGBT in last year’s defense authorization bill, and I guess he’s talking about SCHIP (or possibly the pre-existing condition exclusion for children in the health care law, which is now in effect).
Not making a value judgment on this post, but Biden’s technically correct on that.
Well I like Biden and I think he should get a break on this. I mean he is the Vice-president, he has no power and no way to affect any real policy. All he can do is give his opinion when asked, but whether its followed or not is up the Pres. He is supposed to be cheering on the Dems cause he has no other job, hes the Vice-president!
Aaron Burr was so upset at the lack of power of the VP job that he went and shot somebody. Cheny didnt lack power but he went and shot somebody too . . .
Those of us on the left (in my case the far left) have been energized for decades but people like Biden keep telling us our ideas are not possible, that the establishment way is the way to go. Yeah, Biden, it’s easier to do the bidding of large donors to your campaign war chest than it is to do the right thing for the people who really have to pay for the wars (including the War on Drugs) and the rest of that shit.
No vision, no principles, no fight, no real life meaningful acomplishments for Americans. Sorry just more of the same welfare for the wealthy elite oligarchy.
If she were an even remotely competent journalist, asking that question on the spot and sticking to it is exactly what she would have done.
Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
I’m so drug-addled and “fu**ing re****ed,” I can’t find the D candidates on my ballot.
So, I take away from Biden’s message that Obama really IS superman?
What happened to the Rahm meme that “liberals are f88king retarded”? Maybe THAT’S the reason to vote for them.
Or, “we’re just going to “TWEAK” Social Security: the Republicans want to destroy it” meme?
Whatever happened to SS being the “third rail”?…the same thing that happened to our votes counting, I guess.
The obvious answer is to prevent the Republicans from enacting THEIR agenda, (which looks remarkably like what this bunch of “Democrats” has done). Because apparently Democrats can’t filibuster everything like Republicans can.
Good Morning Gregg and Firedogs
I’m with Gregg, this is about losses in November
it’s a ’94 cya Re Mix
Not
A
Fucking
Thing
Accomplished
Rachel is the oligarchy’s wet dream – why look, there’s a loudmouth dyke right there on the TV, talking about progressive issues, and making us far lefties feel like we really do have a voice!
She should have said no, Obama didn’t fall out of the sky and I didn’t fall off the turnip truck. You’re the vice fucking president and all you can offer us is ooga booga, OMG, the other guys are SOOOOOOO scary?
The enthusiasm gap isn’t from progressives anyway. We’re going to vote. Even those of us that don’t vote, or vote a write-in or third party candidate as a protest vote, we’re going to vote. The votes Democrats need are some of the 15 million or so new votes that went for Obama and Democrats in 2008; that block of votes is where the so-called “enthusiasm gap” is. But the truth is, a LOT of those votes were babied and hand-held all the way to the polls in 2006…by those of us that always voted in the past and will surely vote this time around.
The only question is, will we baby and hand-hold a half-dozen others as we go to the polls this year.
Rachel didn’t ask Joe that question. She didn’t come right out and say: You know, Joe, the to get the unenthused newbie voters to the polls again, don’t you need to produce better results for the GOTV progressives? They know the score and they’re not unenthusiastic, they’re pissed. What’cha got for them?
To which we already know the answer: We can all go hang if we don’t do our duty to produce those “unenthusiastic” votes on election day.
We’re going to vote. The only question is, will we get some/enough of the usual non-voters of 2008 to show up with us. I hope so.
The anarchists are right. If voting did anything to change things, it’d be illegal. Herein, I won’t vote. Direct action is the only solution. This has been borne out by history. I don’t begrudge folks if they *do* vote, but in my 40 odd years I’ve never seen anything change by voting. It keeps getting worse and more right wing.
Notice the threatening phrasing? Even when they need us, it is delivered with a kick.
Hey Joe. No fucking way.
His attitude is exactly why progressives need to deliver this message. They treat us like we are poorly behaved children. In fact, we are virtually the only group who stands by their principles.
The progressive agenda and this admin stand in opposition to one another. No way will I support anything about them.
Where do you live, Margaret, and what’s your employment field? I have a rundown house with enough room for a job hunting visitor if you think NJ might be a better venue to hunt in.
Yes, indeed.
hey Neal, long time no see :D
Rachel didn’t ask Joe that question
and from what I saw late last night, she didn’t ask about the recent DADT court decision, which with the proper frame, would have put the Admin on the spot (where they deserve to be thankyewverymuch) Instead, he was allowed to prattle on about compromising to get 55 votes to repeal it
Excellent, excellent point. Yep! I took election day off and DROVE people to the polls using MY car and gasoline that I bought. I knocked on doors around my place and chivvied people off their sofas to vote. Will I do that again? Not a f*cking chance in hell, (to employ a Rahm Emanuel invective)
Rachel did her job.
She wasn’t there to do a critical interview…her role was “set-up man” for President Obama’s VP.
So…is everyone now “fired up, ready to go”?
I currently live in San Antonio but my home is Austin and I’m trying to get back there. My last job title was research data manager and it was collecting and analyzing medical research data.
Or you could do the sensible, gutsy thing and vote Green or whatever other left-wing political party might be on the ballot in your area. This is why the Democrats take us for granted; no matter how much we might bitch and complain, at the end of the day we do as we’re told. And things keep getting worse. Stop the cycle of abuse. Stop the cycle of giving up. Vote for left-wing candidates from left-wing parties. THAT is how you move the Democrats to the left.
And don’t tell me how much worse the right-wingers are, because that argument no longer holds water. Bush authorized illegal imprisonment without charge or trial, with a side order of torture thrown in. Obama is giving us the same thing, only he claims the right to murder us without any due process whatsoever (except at his whim). After a certain point, claiming the other guy is worse when one is doing the exact same thing as said other guy loses all effectiveness. If you accept the false choice of voting for bad politicians or not voting at all, you are surrendering to the controllers of this society. Break the cycle. Vote for third party candidates and make it enough of a showing at the polls that the Democrats can take no other message than that they MUST actually govern from the left if they are to win and retain power. No other method will work without this added to it.
Gregg,
Is Rachel Maddow “USELESS or is she USELESS?????(LOL)
Yes. I won’t vote for the nutters who tell me to my face that they aren’t listening to me. But I won’t listen to the establishment hacks. I just finished a letter to the editor on “Destroying Social Security: Only Democrats can do it”. I am trying to flush out my Democrat Rep Scott Murphy. He won’t commit to not cutting benefits, to not raising the retirement age and to eliminating the FICA cap. I have written to him three times. Crickets. I found the moxie to do this here at FDL.
Oh, come ON. Obama did give the banks and big PhRMA and the insurance corps the right to raise their prices to the moon and he really IS going to gut the social programs in Dec, after the dust sorta settles.
Now those are “accomplishments” I can believe in.
Oh, yeah and they’re cutting off more foodstamps again for Michelle’s “War on Childhood Obesity”.Starvation IS a bit Draconian, but it ought to do the job….
Amazing stuff going on.
The only difference between Obama and Bush is that Obama is more secretive.
My advise to President Obama, start governing like a progressive. He can make the net neutral, demand enforcement of labor, environmental, and financial laws all without going to Congress. How about some serious reshuffling of people at the MMS? How about actually appointing Warren to the financial products board (instead of teasing us)? Until the President starts governing like a progressive, he’ll never get the ENTHUSIASTIC support of the progressives.
What happened was a Democrat attacked SS. The principle of jujitsu.
Wow, I thought that was all last Congress. I stand corrected. Funny how the mind works.
However, then I gotta ask, if this is what you want to campaign on, then campaign on it! (Kind of weak tea with the economy where it is at, but jeez, if you have benefits to sell, then sell them!)
Well, at least it’s out in the open now, that our government can kill us without due process. It’s been going on for years.
THERE’S your transparency
( I feel SO much better now)
Just like Clinton, with the backing of the GOP got rid of Glass/Steagal.
Or you could at least grant me the courtesy and respect that I grant everyone here and give me credit for having the intelligence and judgment to make up my own mind without patronizing commentary from those of us who feel they are better than everyone else.
Those Dems that vote against the welfare of voters let alone Progressive ideals can’t learn anything from their mistakes, it’s who they are, moderate Republicans. These Dems have passed over the greatest chance of a lifetime to strengthen and build on to the Democratic Party. In other words the Dems in name only have helped destroy democratic values and a great future for America. The far Right sees this as a chance to finish off democracy because of of these turncoat Dems.
Shorter Joe: The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Why does this election matter? Republicans will not win back the Senate, and it will be closer than the current 59-41 that cannot seem to do anything. What are Democrats running to do? FFS “those folks are crazy” doesn’t amount to a bucket of spit with near 10% unemployment 18-20 “real unemployment.”
It would be one thing if it were an issue here and there where this administration sold out it’s base, but it’s every. single. issue. DADT/DOMA, nadda, Healthcare and Financial Reform, giveaways to the industries that it tries to regulate, EFCA — how they hold back the laughter as the move that gem further away from the Labor base.
If the filibuster is the problem… campaign on changing Senate rules, is this really that hard folks?
Neither TRMS or Countdown has known what to do ever since 1/21/09. There are fits and starts, but they can’t seem to parse loyal opposition from loyal critic. . . or just critic from the left.
It was over when Obama and Bernanke gave our money all over the world to the banksters with no strings attached.
that was it for America
they got the whole world..in their hands.
“Give me control over
a nation’s currency, and
I care not who makes its laws.”
- Brian Rothschild
(Actually, I thought Nathan said that…goes to show)
Between the “clap louder” folks and of course the DFHs they really dont know what to do as far as this administration. Honestly, let em cheerlead because it’s not like this administration listens to anyone outside their bubble.
Apparently so
Democrats feel the progressive dont have any option but to vote against the wing nuts. Glen Greenwald has something interesting.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/13/democrats/index.html
Vote independent. Send a message to Rahm.
Let me see what I can stir up. Not my field, at all, but almost anything medical is hot around here. Cripes, if you’re a nurse, you can get a bidding war started. This is the Philadelphia, southern Jersey, Wilmington Delaware region. We have a few med facilities. Johns Hopkins is 90 minutes south.
which is why I heartily recommend folks check out Dylan Ratigan. again, I can’t figure out why he is still on the air for a large, powerful corporation – it’s a lot like reading here.
there came an awkward moment late in the HCR fight where she and Chris Hays appeared to be flummoxed as to the need for bi-partisanship – really ? all that brain power ?
and then Ratigan the very next day, ‘it’s a cover to enact Stakeholder-friendly legist’
sssshuh
The fact is that this administration is far more interested in their own futures than the future of this country. Just like Blanche Lincoln is right now picking out the drapes for her nice, new Wal-Mart office, next year Obama will turn his attention to the important matters like the color scheme in his new office, lawyering and lobbying for the health insurance industry.
I never looked at the democrats as a progressive party. There are just too many conservatives among them, people who I suppose would be republican if they had the chance. They are a minority but there are enough of them to join with the republicans and block reform. Taxes will be the next example. So it is not surprising they promise all kinds of shit and then can’t deliver. But WTF should I do? Vote for the hate and crazy assholes on the right? So Biden is a huckster? We knew that, didn’t we? If the republicans win by a landslide, especially in the senate, it will be years – - longer than 6 years – - to get any kind of hope for reform on the active agenda. And don’t play the lets form a new party shit. That will take even longer. WTF. One thing to do is direct the wrath against a few of the republican assholes. What would happen if we knocked off Bachman or a few of them, instead of ranting about the dems. And do you really think the republicans can help the unemployment situation, which is at depression levels already?
If I was a nurse, I wouldn’t be unemployed. I’m a pure researcher.
Stopped watching Rachel quite some time ago. Boring. I can be bought but I can’t be bored.
Me either. I never joined the Democratic Party because they are too conservative for me. I had a very hard time talking to my hard headed, Libertarian sister in law about the important difference between an alliance and membership and she, though very ideological, is one of the most brilliant minds I know.
Anyway, time for my morning work out. Later pups.
But that doesn’t answer my question: would you move?
later. Ms Peg
You make a compelling case, but I don’t see how the capitalist system can be propped up any longer. It’s like what the Communist tried to do for so many years–avoid the obvious. We are reached a crossroads in human evolution. The earth won’t take more of capitalism.
I see our predicament as a major paradigm shift. It can’t be rectified by voting under the current system.
‘Vote independent,’ so the Republican can win. Come on guys, basic math. If Democrats are voting for two different candidates (the official Dem. and some third party guy), they are voting for two different candidates. In other words, you’re splitting the vote. This is exactly why Rubio is going to win in Florida, rather than the much less toxic and dangerous Crist. You guys are refusing to hold your nose and vote for Democrats, and so you’re letting somebody who you would puke over to win.
Well since I’m a drug addicted f*ucking retard, then riddle me this, Joe: how’m I supposed to figger out how to git ta tha polls and vote for anyone??
Hey, Joe, you know what?? Believe it or not, I’m not some battered spouse who keeps “forgiving” the mate for the beatings and then comes back for more beatings based on the “story line” that it’s a “cold cruel world out there.” If you needed ME so d*mn effn badly, then maybe you shoulda paid attention to MY needs, instead of being your d*mn knees sucking off the obscenely wealthy oligarchs who’ve brought our nation to its knees.
Figure it out, Joe! And figure it out fast. Am I a f*cking r*tard who should STFU?? Or am I truly a valued constituent, who, ya know, you’ll start really and truly representing MY middle & lower class needs for a change?????????
If yer sweatin’ bullets, Joe, it’s bc yer afraid of losing yer cushy socialistic gov’t job. Too bad, so sad. Get used to it. Tons of citizens out there without jobs… and without the cushy pension & health care you’ll get for life. Come back when you have something real to offer.
I can’t see how the capitalist system can be propped any longer, either. But that’s because I don’t see a capitalist system in the United States. I see a mixed economy.
Science is witchcraft doncha-know.
“vote independent” means you lose. What is the message? F.U. jack, I made you lose. So now what? O shit, is that my nose there on the ground. I get to live with the really crazy ass like Angle, etc for the next 20 years?
Exactly.
If I felt that there was the slightest chance that Dems would get around to representing their middle and lower class constituents for a change, I would consider voting for them. As it is: we have ample proof that the Dems are only representing the oligarchs. Why reward THAT behavior? Makes no sense to me.
I will vote, but I will be very choosy about who I vote for. I may either be writing in “Public Option” and/or voting for 3rd party candidates in a number of races. I will ONLY vote for Dems, if I believe they’ll actually step up and represent their constituents, not just the oligarchs.
I kind of recall the Dems promising to end Bush Wars if we elected them into leadership in both houses. No more votes from me, until they fulfill their broken promises.
And therein lies the problem. That is not their core function. They are not here to simply bash the extreme right of the GOP and give the extreme right in the Democratic Party a free pass…………..What would make TRMS and Countdown unique is if they would interview someone with views outside of the one corporate party with two right wings…………
With mere weeks before the election, the White House finally realized, “By golly! We might need the liberals in this one.” So he sends his #2 man. Nice.
Oh I’m energized all right Joe.
I’m energized to vote against every Dem on my ballot.
I’ll go for that. Thanks for the link. Get a clue everyone. The Dems just aren’t that into you.
Oooooo someone who wants to appeal to mathematics!
You should take a look at what’s called the “Prisoners Dilemma.”
You’re in luck, because there’s a Seminal diary about it at the top of the reader list right now: here.
Well said.
I watched Anderson Cooper’s interview of Ron Paul last evening and just about threw up on the tv screen. Paul is dandying about claiming the free market capitalist revolution is just about complete. The Tea Party is the icing on the cake.
Of course the dolt Cooper couldn’t come up with the observation or question: Today’s economy is what the capitalist revolution brings the people?
I’d say the value system is capitalist. Make profit at the expense of someone else. Sure, there are some mediating forces but those are, as we have seen, being slowly eroded.
Name your price………..(LOL) Me of course, I can’t be bought……… The world is never boring. Always something afoot………
damn, i felt like i was watching biden give obama a slow handjob–i felt like i was intruding on a private moment, oof, painful and awkward.
and i don’t see an “enthusiasm gap” between the GOP base and dem base. i think that puts the disparate groups on some sort of level playing field, where someone who wants ‘govt to stay away from their medicare’ is on the same plane as someone not rubbing their ears together for a thought, nor led into righteous battle by pseudo-xtians.
the problem is that we have had so much smoke blown up our asses by the democratic party for so long now that our bodies are bloated. for so long the dems have taken progressives for granted, assuming, year after year, that as long as the dems stayed fractionally better than the GOP that we would vote for them. always ringing the ‘just imagine what the GOP would do’ bell, over and over and over again. well, with a huge victory, record number of votes, control of the exec and leg branches, and a huge mandate to undo neoliberal crimes we now see just what the dems are made of–marshmallow fluff squeezed between corporate cookies.
we, the voters, are the most important part of the political equation–not money, not power, not the media. we decide who gets elected. and we should remember just what elected officials and the parties they represent have stood for after they win their elections and decide whether or not those are the people/parties we want to support.
Oh yeah: always vote
That seems to be the thinking of a lot of people on FDL. Six years of Angle running the economy and controlling the social issues is the appropriate punishments for Democrats who actually did do plenty, but couldn’t deliver all the way.
I really can see no virtue in voting Democratic. Getting the GOP in power will just make it more transparent the enabling of the MOTU agenda.
reminds me of the ol corporate bs -
kick, kiss, kick, with Biden being the kiss
which means someone in the WH is soon to have “a bad day” and deliver the next kick – prolly just before the election – joy
Yes, we want instant gratification and when we don’t get it, F.U.. I don’t need my nose anyway!!!
Notice how you can never objectively critique the capitalist system. I mean, does it really work? Does it rid poverty? Does it make people happy? Etc, etc…
tell you what -
you deliver a cogent justification for targeting Americans for assassination anywhere, anytime without due process and I’ll listen to whatever you have to say ‘k ?
With unemployment staying at 10%, a too small stimulus’s money drying up — What pray tell did they do that was so fantastic as to melt faces and blow my mind? Does we could have failed worse constitute “plenty.” Heck of a job.
And if complete nutjobs weren’t what the ‘retaliation’ would bring, if the economy wasn’t in shambles, if the United States wasn’t in the position it is in right now, I might entertain the idea. But, guess what? If you retaliate, it has real-world consequences. Your retaliation results in Angle, O’Donnell, and a handful of other wackos being in the Senate for the next six years.
This isn’t the first time I’ve come across a poster on FDL trying to school me on this issue. The fact is, the time to punish Democrats is in the primaries. That’s what they’re there for. Primaries were created so that you could kick out incumbents you don’t like, and put up somebody who represents your stances. If you fail to do that, tough shit. In the general, you’ve got two choices, then: vote for somebody who’s kind of on your side, or vote for somebody who you know for sure would steal your seat in the lifeboat.
I don’t buy the idea in that Seminal post for one minute. It’s completely illogical, and anybody who would consciously vote third party to punish Democrats is just as illogical.
Either way, as I see it. I’ll support whoever supports me. Put me into the basic survival group.
If the goal is to avoid Rubio at all costs, Democrats would be wiser to vote for Crist than to vote for Meeks. The low information middle will also vote for Cristy.
The more Democratic votes go to Meeks (IMHO, the best choice of least worst, but that is beside the point), the greater the channces of a Rubio win. Because the middle of the road know-nothings are going to vote for the silver-haired-tanning-bed-tanned-closeted-gay hypocrite.
Middlers seek the middle choice. Goldilocks and The Three Bears.
If I thought democratic goals were aligned with mine, I’d be excited about the election. Unfortunately, judging by the actions of the democrats over the past four years, their positions are aligned with the status quo and oligarchy.
How do you stop the righward drift? Primary challenges don’t work because even if you do elect a more progressive pol they end up caving like Kucinich did.
There should be a magic number campaign, the number that turns the tide. Lo and behold, it was 60 all along. Whoops!
For those of us who have to work for a living, there is always a price.
Well, let’s see. I’ve got one off the top of my head, that applies directly to me. I won’t ever have to pay $525 dollars a quarter for comprehensive student health insurance, now that I can stay on my mother’s UFCW insurance. That makes the difference between me taking out or not taking out another loan.
You’re saying we should give our obnoxious donkey a carrot every time he craps on the rug or we’ll be stuck with an elephant crapping on the rug which is even worse.
Probably true but it won’t inspire people to get out the vote.
Not necessarily true. Many nurses are having a hard time finding work particularly new grads. It took my daughter almost a year to find a job and she ended up in Vegas.
since it’s so vital to defeat the “nutjobs” and all the horror they and their Party were to bring in to our lives . . .
why isn’t the DCCC supporting Justin Coussoule against the Evil Boehner ?!? The Tan Man is barely clinging to a 50% JAR in the district. I hear from everyone he is the face of the hell that is to come, so why isn’t our Party backing the opposition ?
Voting for somebody who you know won’t win goes against the survival strategy. It’s like a lion going after a elephant, knowing it won’t get the kill, instead of going after the smaller animal that, yeah, won’t fill him up as much as the elephant, but is still better than wasting all of its energy and ultimately going hungry at night.
Sounds like what Joe lieberman said about voing for Nader , you know that other joe ,party darling, who the democrats ran as VP .
Reading the comment at 25 and 51 reminded me of a post from long ago. It casts some light on how the mind works.
http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/20/worst-inauguration-ever/
Right back at you Emanuel and Gibbs…. “F” you too!
still waiting on a response to my 95
While that is one of the few policies to come out of the healthcare bill that works from the get-go and is nice, what does that do to lower unemployment in any tangible way? That’s the point the primary issue is a crappy economy and they really don’t have an answer.
It’s a fast-moving thread; I didn’t see it. Sorry about that.
Could you possibly point to whatever law/policy you’re saying, and any examples that the government is rampantly assassinating US citizens?
But in the end, you still lose with lesser evilism, as we have seen. It is ultimately self-defeating.
I don’t know of any Democrats — let alone the President — saying that the economy would healthy again by 2010. All I’ve heard is that it would a little bit better. Indeed, I remember being told many, many times that it would take quite a long time for the economy to recover.
Interesting – the Democratic Senate doesn’t need to be told to “get in gear” over Elizabeth Warren, but the people who are losing their homes and jobs need to show some damn enthusiasm.
@36 makes one of the biggest points. When Dems do the right thing, “the base” can, in the end, sell the bulk of America on it. “The base” may get tuned out by Obama, but they are listened to by their friends and neighbors. “The base” had the nation sold on the public option – which Obamaco non-transparently traded away for a series of bad decisions and a public mandate he had campaigned against.
His problem isn’t that they haven’t given “the base” anything to sell to their friends and neighbors.
Obama has been worse than Bush on his judicial assertions of rights to assassinate and torture – Dana Rohrbacher of all people was there, arguing for the release of the Chinese Uighurs that Obama tried to keep in depraved conditions. Obama to the right of Rohrbacher – there’s no coherent, logical way to “sell” his position. McCain would very likely have done a better job on GITMO and on explaining to the nation that we need to own up to our mistakes and do something about them.
Obama selling out the public option through a secret wheeler dealer process that excluded public scrutiny and included sticking the middle class with an outrageously pro-insurance indsutry profit based mandate. No good way to sell that except to the few people – and there are a few – who are going to benefit from the special provisions that look good, but require another, further huge shift of middle class assets to corporate tills for those smaller accomplishments. The Dems over and over allowed the public option to be framed as a far left idea when it had broad, majority support.
Surging away with no purpose in Afghanistan, setting up Bagram as the new GITMO, jumping into bed with Blackwater-Xe interests, etc.
And the viciousness with which the “I’m all about transparency” Obamaco admin has gone after whistleblowers has been nasty, mean, hateful, shocking. Just repulsive. And the whistleblowers he can’t go after anymore, like Taguba, who destroyed their own careers to do the right thing, he’s marginalized and betrayed by his refusal to do they right thing about what they worked so hard to reveal.
It’s not just that I won’t be voting for Obama interests, it’s that all of us have friends who just don’t follow politics much. They aren’t going to vote for someone because you say so, but they are going to now and then float a talking point they’ve heard somewhere and see if you shoot it down or not. ANd they carry that with them. Lots of times to the polls.
I have nothing about the Dems I want to sell. So it isn’t just that I’ll be voting 3rd party, it’s that I won’t be having the mild, repetitive conversations over a couple of months that take some 80 yo women who started out believing that Barak Hussein Obama must be a Muslim to voting for him. Not only that – I’m embarassed to have any conversation about the Dems. I haven’t just been disappointed by the Dems; I’ve been discredited by them.
I just got an email from DNC Chairman Tim Kaine offering me a free bumper sticker (Whoopee!) if I make a contribution to the Democrats. What was amazing about the email was that Kaine didn’t even try to suggest that Obama’s delivered anything for his base! There was no listing of any accomplishments whatsoever. Folks commented that when Clinton reviewed the accomplishments of his administration for his 1996 re-electin campaign (Mostly economic), he sounded like a Soviet spokesman reciting details of the latest Five-Year Plan. But Clinton at least had that much to report!!!!
You make a valid point but the Congress didn’t do that. Obama and a very conservative SCOTUS are to blame for those policies.
Agree.
I’m “a certain age,” and I’ve been voting for longer than I care to remember. I think some who post here may be younger (no slur; just factual, I believe) and haven’t been screwed around, jerked off and fooled as many times as I have been.
What, I think, some citizens forget is that these jerks work for us, the electorate; it’s not the other way around. I HIRED Obama, after I interviewed him – via his campaign – and, based on BHO promised in his campaign, BHO & the Dems deserve nothing more than to be fired. Period. Others may disagree, of course.
The rightward push has been going on since forever, or at least since the 1960s, which some may not realize. Carter got worse, Clinton put the icing on the cake, and with BHO, we now have Republicans running around in the “drag” of Democrats. Spare me.
So-called “Democrats” have traditionally over time done a better (not great, but better) job of actually representing MY needs when they’ve been in the minority. This past 2 frackin’ years, they’ve had one of the biggest majorities EVER (in my lifetime), and they’ve pissed it away sucking the c***s of the Oligarchs. Pardon my french. I’m pissed off. I’m done. Joe can get a clue.
Let them be in the minority; they usually do a “better job” as the opposition, frankly. And with the Republics & T-Party: they make no bones about how they’re gonna run things. So now we know and no b.s.
I suggest voting for a progressive or even a libertarian over any democrat that doesn’t have strong progressive credentials .
If there isn’t one in the race but the race looks safe for the democrat , consider witholding your vote and rattling their cage by making it a little less safe .
Does it have that lame new logo that (apparently) somebody’s kid came up with? I would be tempted to pay for him to NOT send me one of those.
You lose less. If progressives really want to transform the Democratic party, they need to sweep the primaries. The problems is that you’re in the a country where only 22% of the 2008 voters identified as liberal, and where liberals account for only 50% of the Democratic party. Yeah, we’re the largest demographic in the party, but we’re only 50%.
Us dems need to start our own version of a tea party. I’m afraid for my country! I’m losing my freedoms! DC is out of touch! This right-wing crazy talk is scaring me! When are we going to stop wasting money on the military and start taking care of our people? When are we going to start treating all Americans equally? Why do we elect people into office who don’t/can’t do what they promise? Let’s throw out the same ole, same ole! We need a 2nd Amendment remedy! Quit feeding me bullshit!! Where’s my pitchfork??!!
oh yes, by all means equivocate on it now being about how many have actually been assassinated.
This President has claimed the power to target U.S. citizens for assassination – anywhere, anytime without due process – that is fact
now please provide us with a justification for that, thanks
Voting one’s beliefs is voting one’s beliefs. The answer is set by who sets the questions. In other words, why is the question for you always which is better, Democrats or Republicans? The question to me is, what’s best for building the progressive movement? Those are the terms under which this must be discussed. So yes, my answer is Dump Obama. And his running dog lackeys.
Yep. When I was in my twenties I actually believed in the Dems. Been hoodwinked enough. You’ll see young uns it’ll happen to you. Slick Willie was my epiphany–you know, how much the 2 party system blows.
I’m *NOT* going to forgive and forget the Blanche Lincoln bait and switch and the sorry gutted, spineless, muscleless mush the hypocritical Dems (yes, Biden, Schumer, Barney Frank, Dodd, Obama, etc., etc.) passed as “Finance Reform” – I’m with the pitchfork folks on this one. I don’t believe a thing from the DNC anymore. Fool me twice….
Speak for yourself. I’m not a Democrat. That party is far and away too conservative and ideologically driven for my taste.
The letter’s subject is “A new look for Democrats” and they’ve a light blue “D” inside a dark blue circle. Yeah, it’s not terribly impressive.
Hey , atleast if the republicans win in Nov. it will no longer be politically inconvenient to oppose our quick decent into fascism during Bush’s third term !
That might be refreshing .
It’s called Dump Obama!
I am happy with the Dem rep and Senator so I will vote for them. And I will never tell anybody not to vote. Vote–write in a name if you choose. But as one poster said, it is not progressives who will NOT vote, but more the independents who voted for Obama who may not vote.
But I suspect the WH will blame progressives for any losses anyway. Progressives are becoming communally the new “Ralph Nader”.
To me, sending Biden to lecture progressives has to be Rahm mocking progressives. I didn’t pay much attention to Biden before 2008 but as I learned more about him, the more I was disgusted. He has to be one of the most vicious of the corporatists in the Democratic Party.
And I use the word vicious deliberately. He was one of 3-4 Dems who supported Bush’s Bandkrupcy law. He actually voted against an amendment to soften the bill by protecting the homes of elderly people who found themselves in bankrupcy. He voted against protecting the families of soldiers who were in active combat. He has voted for every major law fucking the working classes such as welfare reform, NAFTA, and dismantling Glass-Steigal. And yet the guy is a hero among the loyalists.
For me, maybe my own inside joke, but Biden is basically saying to progressives “please don’t let people like me control the Senate”.
The question for me is, “Which is better?”, because we have a two party system, and nobody’s going to change that in one election. If there was a viable third-party candidate, hell yes I would vote for them. Yeah, there certainly is a problem with people just brushing off any third-party person as unelectable, but the bottom line is still there. We shouldn’t be arguing all these philosophical stances. The bottom line, right now, 9/16/2010, is that there are two very distinct choices, not three.
There’s only so many times that I’ll “consent” to being jerked around.
Fool me once & all that.
I voted for Clinton the first time with great reluctance; voted for Nadar the second time. People who “blame” Nader for Gore’s “loss” weren’t paying attention. The election was rigged, and Gore gave in without so much as a whimper. And then the Dems run Kerry – yet another patrician, rich, egg-head from New England – against Bush (even tho, in fact, Bush was also patrician, rich & from NE but NOT an egg-head)??? How STUPID is that?
What. a. waste. I wasn’t an Obama supporter during most of the primary, although the choices were, frankly, limited. With reluctance, I held my nose & voted for him and hoped for the best. And voila: I got a Republican, far-right, corporatist shill hack POTUS, who sends forth his mouthpieces to verbally abuse me more than once.
Anyone who is willing to put up with or ignore the the very calculated and deliberate verbal abuse from the POTUS is a foolish voter. I’m not a battered spouse. I “got it” the first time.
Get a clue, Joe. Not interested in what you’re selling. I’m done.
Yep, that’s the one! Way lame! Something you’d expect from a Tim Kaine DNC. Him and Steele are peers in that regard.
and I believe I am asking it of someone trying to tell “you people” that POTUS is everything he advertised he was in 08, just that mean ol obstructionist Repubs and Blue Dogs are thwarting him at every move and slowing up all that groovy ‘change’ we ‘impatient Naderites’ are ‘childishly’ demanding
so go ahead, reconcile that with these claims on extra-Cheney powers
I would really like to see that particular “petty grievance” of mine addressed
But as I’ve been saying “We suck less than the other guys” isn’t going to motivate anyone. Period.
I can’t address it. I’ve said you make an excellent point. :)
Decades ago the company for which I worked called one of those all-hands-on-deck mega-meetings and we got the same dumb-@ss speech from the cocaine-addled, hot rod-driving, cigar-smoking, hooker-attended top brass. They said we needed to bring in the contracts to save their jobs otherwise we’d all be out of jobs and the company would fold.
Yea, so I’ve seen this movie. So here we have the failed American leadership (otherwise known as the “The Dark Crystal ReDub OR Where The Economy Is Headed”) trying to pull this stunt.
Sorry, time’s up. We The People brought it and this new Administration squandered it. They had every power at their finger tips to make a world of difference with even the smallest stoke of a pen but THEY BLEW IT! We even gave them a handy check list but they refused to do their jobs.
So you know what? YOU’RE FIRED!
Yep
Exactly, and that is exactly the message they are sending out. What ELSE did Joe Biden say in that instructive video: vote for us bc we suck less. Seriously? No thanks.
An artful dodge, though Biden was touting the Summer of Recovery, but I digress. The point was, maybe the economy will recover without any help, but I seriously doubt it, and what affirmative act(s) are the Democrats taking that will have any meaningful effect? Extending Bush tax cuts (regardless of which bracket) which are expensive and haven’t done jack, more tinkering around with tax policy as though that will ignite anything. It’s more republican claptrap about tax cuts and deregulation that doesn’t work.
Hear, hear! Not holding these clowns accountable for their crappy work performance is about the dumbest thing anyone can do. If I do a rotten job at work, believe me, my boss is on my butt immediately… as she should be.
All this hand-wringing about the likes of Angle & O’Donnell is exactly what our corporate overlords want Democratic voters to get their panties in a bunch about. I really don’t give a sh*t if they get voted in; their “handlers” will hold them in check.
As I said: Dems actually do somewhat better if they’re the opposition.
Bummer, Biden out begging for votes. Obama appointing Prof. Warren when I’m sure Summers and Geithner were pissed as heck about it. Something tells me the WH’s polling number don’t look good.
Well, the 2010 midterm results are pretty much baked in at this point and there’s not much he can do about it.
But Obama has two very short years to learn how to fire up his base or he’s going to get hammered in 2012.
We share the same experience over time and the interpretation. I really gave up on Democrats when Clinton began his run. It was clear he was not going to do anything other then enrich the rich. It’s been the same since.
oh dear, I wasn’t saying you owed me an answer. I’m quite comfortable assuming where you stand on it :D
When “trickle down” economics became conventional wisdom, we were screwed from that point.
oh and p.s. Mike Lux has a piece out this morning claiming the Elizabeth Warren move was a “homerun” IKYN
Who keeps their campaign promises ?….. Nobody !
Who works tirelessly for the American People ? ……Nobody !
Who is a strong champion for peace ?………Nobody !
Who is working to protect the constitution and our basic rights ?…………..Nobody !
Vote Nobody in November !!!
That’s good. Cause I don’t have one! There are a whole lotta things about this administration I don’t have answers to.
Obama isn’t running in November. Just a reminder…
Exactly. Clinton was huge disaster, imo. It’s only under a Dem that many of the give-aways, like NAFTA & repeal of Glass-Steagle & drastically cutting welfare, were more likely to happen. The Big Dawg was a big Republican sell-out. Gore didn’t want to win & made sure he didn’t. Neither did Kerry.
They’ve now wheeled out Obama, the ultimate Republican Trojan Horse candidate. He’s like Clinton on steriods without the sexual shenanigans baggage, and infinitely LESS charming (at least there’s some sense of “transparancy” there). I really feel that Obama totally disdains and looks down on trad. Dem voters in much the same way that Dick Cheney does. Voters who don’t get that really need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Wake UP, sheeples.
How about that! Biden on Rancid Maddow just kicking the can down the road.
Naked as a jay bird. One of those “Emperor Has No Cloths” reruns.
I doubt Democraps can print money fast enough to fade November.
No the democrats in congress who used reconciliation to pass a health bill without a public option are ,over the clear wishes of the electorate when they always had the votes to pass the PO.
You know , the same ones that voted in the largest defence spending bill since the second world war while having a majority that republican haven’t enjoyed since like …. 1930 ?
Good for you.
In a couple of years I will be forced to spend 8.5% of my income on health insurance I will not be able to use (due to high deductible and co-pay.)
At that point I will probably have to move into a cheaper place, because I will no longer be able to afford what I have.
LOL – you should make that a diary
Obama is a supreme technocrat, bottom line. He’s cocooned himself within a gaggle of Ivy League rich fucks. So all he knows is procedure. How the hell could he empathize with a regular slob paying his mortgage? He doesn’t have the capacity to understand. Sure, he came from humble beginnings–but he made the choice to pull up ladder when he got his. This is Obama in a nutshell.
The problem is the real Tea Party is AstroTurfed.
We would never be able to get the shadow sponsorship.
My point is that reflexively voting against somebody just because they have a “D” by their names makes as little sense to me as reflexively voting for somebody because of a letter. That’s something we used to, (and still do) rightly criticize Republicans for doing. Vote reflexively or stay home if you must but don’t expect me to follow lemming like in your wake.
Sounds like a lot of you guys don’t want anything to do with the elections.. seems to make sense given the turnout numbers for BOTH parties in these primaries.. so let’s see…If you average the two totals together for trends over the last 6 months, people (registered voters) that have actually VOTED in the round of primaries is under 15 % …
That’s lunacy but if you clowns want to be like beck and hannratty want you to be, hands back on the fries, pounding that 64 oz RC, and doing snickers bars everyday until you’re in a sugar stupor – have at it..
Name: Obama/Biden
Grade: F
Much of the right has abandoned the republicans ,it’s time for progressives to do the same with the democrats !
The two party system is broken , if it ever actually worked in the first place !
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydj3boQlgSc&feature=related
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=foWx42_1Loc&feature=related
Nobody keeps his campaign promises !!!
I’m voting for nobody , I’m nobody’s fool !
See my post at 121 .
I reject those choices. Stop trying to sell me a used car I don’t want. I preferred Nader in the last election so I voted for him. I’ll be voting “3rd party” until someone else represents my interests. If that causes you to suffer Angle and O’Donnell then you have 3 options. You can reform the democratic party to make them truly liberal. You can vote 3rd party and work to achieve critical mass. Or, you can get used to losing, and complaining about ‘Naderites’ yet again. There’s no way I’m voting for war criminals or war crimes, theft from the lower 99% of the income bracket, or anything else that is against my interests. You are wasting your time.
All this spineless whining about how I should just suck it up and take what I’m given, has given me the only reason I’ve had in decades to vote Republican (if only to spite corporate Dem tools). The juvenile guilt trip is old and tired.
I think there is an excellent idea in there. We should actively be going after some of the republicans like Boehner and Bachman.
It’s just a diversion. Hey, I want to turn this whole conversation to qunatum entanglement. I’m sure there is a connecton there somewhere.
MSNBC: Propoganda Model vs Business Model
During Primetime TV hours, the most lucrative time to sell advertizing, MSNBC forgoes making money, and instead runs advertisments for 5 of their pundits and one ad for their weekend activity.
Every single commercial during the most profitable time promotes themselves.
Thats a model for Propoganda, not a business model designed to make money.
Sorry Joe but having been handed a majority over the last two election cycles come with a price tag , no political cover !
A diary, definitely, well worth the read, Nathan.
DW
Dear Vice President Biden,
The Democratic Party represents the best interests of the MOTU, corporate America, and the MIC.
The Democratic Party is pro never-ending war, total spectrum secrecy, rendition, and torture.
The Democratic Party vigorously supports treating a president like an absolute monarch.
The Democratic Party is opposed to civil liberties and supports surveillance of all forms of communication.
The Democratic Party continues to support free market economics that do not work, never have worked, and never will work.
The Democratic Party opposes labor unions; is indifferent to Great Depression levels of unemployment and its associated human suffering; and has no credible, viable, or realistic plan to reduce unemployment to 5% or less.
The Democratic Party supports the idea that the president has the absolute power to order anyone in the world assassinated at any time, including U.S. citizens, no matter where they are, if the president suspects they are involved in providing material support for terrorism. The party opposes any effort to curtail that power as well as any effort to require the president to identify the people whom he designates to be murdered, or to explain why he believes they have provided material support for terrorism. Given the Democratic Party’s unwavering support for these policies, I have no reason to believe that it would oppose a presidential decision to assassinate Desmond Tutu or the Dalai Lama if they were to criticize his war policies and he considered such criticism to be material support for terrorism.
The Democratic Party supports eliminating social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
The Democratic Party supports eliminating public schools and privatizing education.
The Democratic Party supports offshore drilling, fracking oil shale for oil, nuclear power, and coal mining including mountain top removal.
Last but not least, the Democratic Party supports looking forward and not backward, except in the case of whistleblowers, so it supports protecting Bush, Cheney, Bybee, Yoo, and all of the torturers and murderers who carried out their orders and committed war crimes.
No thanks, Vice President Biden. I oppose all of these policies. Therefore, I refuse to support the Democratic Party and I will never support it until it changes all of these policies.
There is no way in hell that I ever will ally myself with war criminals and it’s just too damn bad if you, your amoral boss, and the rest of the Democratic Party can’t handle rejection.
None of you mean anything to me and I will oppose all of you and your deplorable policies with all of the energy I can muster.
When voters reject democrats at the polls this fall and deny you and your boss a second term in 2012, you need only review this list of offensive policies and look in a mirror to know whom to blame for the ignominious collapse of the Democratic Party.
you are clearly very depressed about the admin and the democrats in general. So you (and most others here on FDL)will do what you must. I am not nearly so upset by Obama and the dems. That does not mean I like it all. But they have tried to make a go of it even in these most trying times and with members of their own party who really belong in the other party. I see no chance whatsoever the other side will do anything at all to try and improve anything. Simple as that, I suppose. But I think I could take the other side of your argument in most cases. It’s just that here on FDL, nothing would help much.
Obama is actually worse than Bush in some aspects. Bush couldn’t destroy Soc Sec. Looks like Obama will.
It isn’t even his own opinion, he plagiarized it from someone else and said the words to get the credit. Fucking hack.
Amen
Here is my strategy in November. I will be writing in “public option” in both the US House and Senate.
BTW there are posters here who also post articles on HP. Could someone discuss the “public option” candidacy over there, please?
It’s why they chose Obama. Let the black Democrat destroy Social Security. Obama has ensured that another black president will not occur in my kids’ lifetime, forget about mine.
I agree totally: he is worse. Obamarahma gives the cover of being from the titular left party to repugnant neoliberal policies even Bush couldn’t pass.
Imagine the uproar of protest had Bush’s WH intentionally leaked the existence of a secret assassination program that was targetting Americans with no due process.
However when Obama did it, most of the people who would have been protesting Bush had he done the same, either stayed silent, or worse yet, defended it.
It seems like a one-two punch. Repubs through Reagan and the Bushes start the radical processes in secret or under the guise of something else, and then Dems through Clinton/Obama come in and make the same extreme secret policies into laws.
Ironic that we won the formal war (WWII) against fascism, only to lose the informal domestic struggle to the same forces.
I would puke over Obama and every single one of the Democrats who’ve abandoned the people for the policy. It’s like to post yesterday on game theory. These people haven’t once been punished for their bad actions and their betrayals which is why a tool like Biden can come out and have the fucking nerve to tell every voter they disappointed and betrayed to suck it up and vote for them again, no guarantees, just vote for us because the other guy is worse.
Well, you know what, Biden? You people ARE the other guys!
Problem is we see it, but most people don’t. And when I try to explain it to them–that Obama is worse than Bush in some areas–they look at me like I’m from Mars. Then again, everyone here is a full-fledged political junkie, so we analyze stuff over and over. People don’t like looking at policy. And–our society now looks down on critical thinking skills. Hence, the deficit in understanding what’s really happening. But none of what I am saying is news to anyone here on this board. It just seems so obvious to me–and to us–yet how do you convince others of these facts?
What the Tea Party and the right-wingers forget; when Bush/Cheney were in power they screwed *everybody*. They didn’t exempt Republicans from their hideous actions. They didn’t *only* torment Democrats.
Bush was loathed by a majority of the population … a vast majority.
So don’t wave the “scary Republicans” in front of me. Democrats have been weak and tentative when we sent them into office with enough “mandate” to do almost anything they wanted. Yes, I know what a gigantic mess the Republicans will make. They’ll be busy trying to control our sex lives while they secretly hire rent boys.
Right now it appears neither wing of the Corporate Rulers cares about the welfare of anyone – anyone – who can’t/won’t donate to them or vote for them.
But Democrats won’t be suffering alone, and if the Republicans take both houses all but the super right-wing extremists will be very sorry they did. I admit that my suffering will be lightened by knowing the right and the tea party loons will be suffering right along with me.
Shrill.
The previous Congress DID pass SCHIP and Shepard/Byrd Hate Crimes, but Bush vetoed the bills that included both, iirc.
But Obama’s DoJ won’t enforce Hate Crimes law in Georgia where a man has $30,000 of medical bills, PTSD and persistent recurring headaches after being beaten by two Marines who thought he “winked” at them one night on the sidewalk. “No lasting injuries” is the reason why: a reason that occurs nowhere in the implementing legislation.
Cowards.
Thanks, Gregg. I saw that interview and was screaming at the TV at exactly the points you mention. And to rub salt into the wound, “Democratic Startegist” Chris Kofinis was on later with the same be-afraid message and again offering us absolutely no love. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
O. has thrown all progressives under his corporate, imperialist royalist bus.
War Crime Team A:
Powell, Rice, Cheney, Yoo, Rumsfeld, Bush.
War Crime Team B:
Clinton, Gates, Biden, Obama, Pelosi, Reid.
Ah, change you can believe in…
Back a few years ago, I proposed an independent Voter’s Internet Party, that would be non-corporate, non-imperialist and non-royalist/tyrant. Listen to liar war criminal Pelosi, impeaching Cheney, Bush: off the table, voting to end war funding: off the table, withdrawal of resolution to allow military action in Iraq: off the table. all this criminality to elect a Dem in 2008. We elected a Dem in 2008 and we got endless war, investigating crimes of Bush and Cheney: off the table, public option: off the table, single payer: advocates arrested. Health care “reform” corporatized by O. in secret… The only thing left on the table is fascism…
We need a progressive Tea Party.
Honestly if I were a senator in any of the parties I wouldn’t give a damn about my so called constituents either. The average american from either side has become a a fearful kitten when it comes to getting what we want from our government. What we should do is unite; both reps. and dems., march down on DC and tell them old farts and wanna be fags to get to work period. Let’s find out if it is still “THE PEOPLE”S” house. When is the last time your local rep. took you out to lunch. If the Dems. want to maintain control then get your asses out and vote. It doesn’t matter much who’s programs are in effect. We are America. We will make the shit work. All they are doing over there is bullshiting us and wasting our monery while they waste our time.
I am staying home. I don’t tell people what to do; I don’t even make serious suggestions unless they ask. BUT, I feel someone needs to put out there the counterpoint to the position that one should vote: whatever good voting may achieve (and that may be a lot of good), it lends legitimacy to our “democracy”-it sends a message that intelligent, informed, engaged citizens think this country’s problems can be addressed through the ballot. I don’t believe that is the case. It truly doesn’t matter, in my opinion. And make no mistake-if you vote for a Democrat politician anywhere, for any office at any level it will be a boon to the DNC, Obama and all congressional Democrats. A third party vote sends a message that is important, but I don’t think anyone who needs to hear it in this country is capable of doing so right now.
If we had Prop 19 here in NY, I’d go vote for that. Other than that, meh-I’d rather spend that evening watching a movie with my wife, reading or just going to bed early.
Right, and having studied the history of democratic politics from its origins in classical Athens through today, I’ve learned that the key thing about it is that voting is all about teh winning!!1!1
Wow. I don’t think anything this administration could do could make you folks happy. I think they did the best possible considering the teabagger backlash which is whipped up to destroy everything progressive at all. And now thanks to the progressive pouting and lack of support, we get to go way backwards, way, way backwards. Thanks!
I think you deserve to have the next 2 to 6 years of tea party mccarthyism shoved [Edited by Moderator. Disagree but do not insult].
Enjoy it, you deserve every inch of it.
I’m sorry, Joe, but I think I missed something. First, you told us you couldn’t accomplish progressive change because you were in the minority. Then you told us, progress had to wait because of 9/11. Progress waited yet again due to Bush becoming a “War President.” We need the house you moaned. We gave you the House. But then you railed “we must have 60 in the Senate” then change would come. We gave you 60 and a Democratic president. Yet, still you whined: “The Blue Dogs won’t come along,” the Republicans must be “on board,” “Olympia Snowe must approve!!
Geez, Joe, what do you REALLY need to get anything done for the people? Alas, ‘wait’ broke my wagon and I’m tired of walking. In short, you can go straight to hell for all I care.
Good point, and one I’ve made to conservatives from time to time.
Same goes for middle and working class conservatives who *insanely* bleat for more and more tax cuts for the obscenely wealthy. It’s like they believe that the oligarchs will toss them a bone because the “small person” conservative supported wealthy people tax cuts.
Boy: how dumb is that? Those rich people don’t give sh*t. Whether I support their tax cuts or not isn’t going to matter. Those rich folks aren’t ever tossing me anything, esp any money or jobs or whatever.
Agree: ReTHUGS are equally destructive to all. Lately Dems have done their damndest to emulate Rethugs.
“These guys (and gals) would sit behind the two-way mirror watching focus groups, and they would deride the respondents and curse about how their stupid target consumers were wrong—wrong!–about their product. It was the consumer who was doing a bad job of understanding the product. It was the consumer that was not paying attention to the right things. It was the consumer that had failed to understand the benefits of these clients’ brands.
Those were not successful brands. And without a change in their point of view, they didn’t become successful brands.”
Why don’t you read, re-read, and read some more of that excerpt. You obviously didn’t get it. It kind of is basic common sense which I know is not natural for you ‘bots. And by the way, the only people who will truly suffer are useless ‘bots such as yourself. We fully know what we’re doing and are at peace with not supporting your corporate policies or constant fellating of Obama and his weak tea policies. You on the other hand, not so much. Believe me, we’ll enjoy every second and every ounce of pain you brought on yourselves by dismissing the base. Enjoy!
Actually, it was Baron de Rothschild, not Brian.
A lot of us have been saying that it seems like more citizens “get it” when Republicans do this kind of stuff, and are more likely to pay attention and maybe even protest it.
Once BHO got elected, a lot of people simply dropped off the map and stopped paying attention. As another post stated, I’ve had some Dem voters look at me like I’m crazy when I start explaining what BHO’s “really done,” and/or I get feeble excuses about how “BHO is really nice” and just “couldn’t get anything done bc of the mean, mean T-party.” Total bamboozlement.
Many feel that the Dems are, actually, more effective in opposition, and that citizens pay more attention to nefarious b.s. when Repubs are in power.
So… eh? Split the difference… Dems have done a horrid job, worse than horrid. And I know for sure that progressives will be scapegoated come Nov 2010 when the Dems lose big. Bring it on.
You and me both.
As I said earlier, it makes be think that Dems are actually trying to lose. Maybe the oligarchs want them to lose? Who knows. But the strategy is the d*mndest thing, I have to admit. Keep kicking the base and then attempt to bully the base into voting for you? Either deliberate strategy or really frackin’ stupid.
In either case? Who wants ‘em? They’re history to me, that’s for sure. A sorrier excuse for “governing” I never did see.
Good Joke!!! I am still laughing!!!
Please think before you type.
Basically your saying Obama had to pass the Bob Dole Health Care Bill, because progressives and democrats all wanted to make health insurance companies rich.
You do know, that for last 20 months the USA has been in a Depression.
Maybe Obama should have focus on the economy a lot more.
However, we all know Obama is a TROJAN horse, a below average democrat could have out perform Obama. I mean 99% of average politician would have just focus on the economy the last 20 months.
Obama is intentionally trying to wreck the democratic party, but as usual he is making the democratic base FURIOUS!!!
Hope a Dope works with GOP, but trying to treat Dems like Morons will end helping the Democratic base weed out the blue dogs like Blanche Lincoln.
By the way Bush done the same thing to the GOP base, ask the republicans in DC how that is turning out? the GOP elite has loss total control of their party.
I like to remind republicans our forefathers kept church and state separate for a reason!!! People have a way of loving Jesus more than rich people, Govt., corporations etc.
Some progressives are actively starting to use tea party candidates like Fox Does.
Welcome to the Games! Fox News can not have all the FUN!
If what they have done and haven’t done doesn’t bother you, then it doesn’t. But I don’t understand how you think you can “take the other side of your argument in most cases” or why you don’t, instead saying that “It’s just that here on FDL, nothing would help much.”
????
If you can’t convince me, how are you going to convince FOX newsies? I don’t know why you think that nothing much would help but I guess it’s based on the Dems doing nothing much worthwhile and that not helping?
If you want to take “the other” side about Obama going further than Buah on asserting the right to assassinate Americans and to prevent their family from even being able to discuss it in court under a states secret invocation – go on, I’m listening. Should be an interesting argument.
If you want to take “the other” side about Obama not really campaigning on no public mandate and then selling that out – go on, I’m listening. If you want to take “the other” side on Obama promising transparency and then cutting backroom deals to kill the public option and drug reimportation (far and away the most popular aspects of any HCR) and not even letting Dems working on legislation know that he and Ben had put the fix in- I’m listening. The HCR we got wasn’t worth having and its political cost was far more than a fight to get a public option or reimportation would have been.
I follow the habeas cases fairly closely and what Obama has done regarding torture, assertions of Executive power, etc. haven’t been Bushlite – they’ve been Bushonsteroids.
You just saying, mournfully, that you think you could make out arguments to the contrary but it just won’t do any good is a cop out.
In particular, though, what I will hold against Obamaco and the Dems is their complete and thorough sell out of whistleblowers and vicious investigations and prosecutions of them, while all the while arranging cover up after cover up after cover up for torturers.
After Obama, no, the thought of McCain-Palin isn’t that frightening.
People may not “self-identify as liberals” but many of them will still support good policies. I’m tired of the too-few-liberals-in-this-country strawman.