NPR’s story on Tim Kaine this morning featured this comment from a college student, who volunteered to help elect Obama in 2008 (audio ca. 2:55).
“We thought there was going to be a huge change in the country, and a lot of people aren’t quite sure that it’s worth putting in the effort this time around if we’re not going to get the promises that were made.”
Yep.
When you campaign on CHANGE and you double down on the Bush/Cheney wars, expand the Bush/Cheney police state, extend the Bush/Paulson TARP program, and deliver Mitt Romney’s health care plan – you have to expect a certain level of disillusionment.




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Wait…a college student in 2008 is too young to have voted for Nader. How can we blame him for the huge Dem losses this fall?
Holy Crap the media is finally clueing into what we have been saying for months?
Hehindeedy.
but, but, you get a groovy key chain !
Thats exactly the question Rahm must ask or convince the media not to ask before he runs for Mayor of Chicago.
The Dems expected election year losses this year the polling tells us are expected to hit the Blue Dogs worse.
Why because in a close race where you need every vote even if 1% of Lefties don’t show up because they feel disillusioned by Obama that is enough for a Blue Dog to lose a close race.
Change was served for dinner at Feinstein’s house
in August 08
With some fava beans and a nice chianti.
Folly of Youth I suppose.
Thanks BT. Although, I’ve been disillusioned befor. This however, feels more like f*cked.
p.s. my link above comes from last night’s Daily Show w/ DNC Chair Kaine – Stewart was devastating
The problem is that all of us can stand up and say that from now until the election day and people like Kaine and Emanuel and Alter and Begala will just say “No, that’s not it”, and there we still are.
By trying to save the blue dogs by giving them everything they wanted Obama screwed us because he thought we would never leave him.
Mary’s thread about abusive men fits
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/69866
After all we know Rahm likes to bully men while nakid in the shower
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
/Obamabotting
Blue dogs lose big on election day as I expect we lose a bunch of enemies. Obama however will go to the GOP to get things passed:(
However every GOPer knows thats part of what got Newt in so much trouble I don’t think any GOPer wants to help Obama before the Presidential election.
LMAO!
o/t note to Blue Texan –
The Secessionist just declared disaster in 40 Tx counties – no doubt in hopes of getting some of dat intrusive Fed cheddar
Or bow before Satan and get he will give you the world. You can get the world easy by accepting things as they are or you can try to change it and risk never getting the world.
What happened no tv here?
Election day’s coming and Bill White is tied with him. He knows what his only chance is, the big, coiffed hypocrite.
Why, we Texans don’t need no help from the federal gubmint — we can handle a little rain.
Yep – feels like the morning turn in your pass, do not go to your desk, don’t ever come back and expect anyone to listen to you – but do buy our products in the future.
“no place to go” folks are just too sensitive.
The youth vote seems to have left Obama how is his African American support holding up? Hispanics are scared of AZ and the constant hate for immigrants which even if your legal you can be mistaken for one.
Us I think will vote in numbers but thats just us.
Goodhair is a velveta type of guy.
didn’t want to distract from thread – will send to your FB :D
OT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/09/arthur-sulzberger-we-will_n_710251.html
Maybe if the Times printed news like this instead of Rahm’s press leaks they might have more readers.
Bobo and Friedman bring in how many readers?
Is this story being picked up by the rest of the media yet or is this an after the election story? Still this kills Rahm’s rep just when he is thinking of being da mayor.
“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!”
Translation: Don’t let the mediocre become the enemy of the truly awful.
You guys have such low self esteem. If he likes you he can’t be any good, eh?
Here’s that link, it is fascinating. Lotta balls (didn’t expect to say that about a democraven), he says about the repugs: “we want to put people in office who want to get rid of social security, as 15 or 20 of them do.” I guess he meant to add “as much as we do.”
The Media is owned by a handful of Republicans. They are making a case now against the Democrats to benefit the R Party in November. Sometimes telling the truth is all that is necessary to malign the D Party.
They neglect to mention, of course that the R Party would have done nearly the same things albeit with more intensity to inflict greater damage to working people and the poor.
They passed “Credit Card Reform” and my APR went up.
They passed “Health Care Reform” and my insurance premium almost doubled.
They passed “HAMP”, but allowed my lender to “opt out”.
It’s not only that they haven’t changed things. In many tangible ways, they have made things worse.
Jane and I watched the hapless Tim Kaine get eviscerated by Jon Stewart last night on the Daily Show. “We Suck Less is not a great campaign slogan, Tim.”
I wish Obama would do us a favor and resign. NOW!
Obama like us? He has stood us up, betrayed us for slutty blue dogs who cheat on him openly and the cheap cash of the healthcare and financial industry.
We gave up liking him a long time ago. Its only breaking news to the Media now that we have broken up.
He resigned two years ago.
True but as my 25 points out GOP propaganda does not sell newspapers media stocks dived under bush despite 2 wars and 9/11 driving media coverage.
If you can’t sell newspapers in wartime you really have to ask yourself whats wrong with your newspaper. Ruperts Wallstreet Journal I suspect is lying about their circulation and financial numbers.
Same as he lies about Glen Becks show making money with an advertiser boycott.
I was a college student in 2008 and voted for Nader in 2000. But I get your point, and expect to read comments from the same embittered posters about how Nader caused AIDS, or something.
yeah, “such low self esteem” we take issue with things like targeting American citizens for assassination anywhere anytime without due process – only a wet dream for Mr Cheney
your shit is as rank and plastic as that key chain
Its like Bush was elected to a third term or Herbert Hoover.
I LOVED this exchange:
“Haven’t you had a bad day, Joh?”
“Not as bad as you’re going to have in November!”
If he likes you he can’t be any good? After the big talk the man’s actions were lacking to say the least but hey if you want him he can be your nominee for President next time around he can talk better than Sarah, Jeb or Mitt.
Its sad that the GOP ran out of ideas after Newt, ran out of good candidates for President and ran out of smart people with Nixon. (evil but smart)
The corporate owned rightwing media (corm), which includes Nice Polite Republicans (aka NPR), is only “owning up” to this because it makes great campaign fodder for Republicans.
Previously corm mostly ignored the growing (and rather vocal) disaffection between the leftwing base and BHO. CORM didn’t want to acknowledge how disgusted us “socialists” are bc CORM wanted to dictate to the Tea Party that BHO was so incredibly socialistcommienazistalinist and only the bravery of the Republics was saving conservatives from immenent peril and socialistKenyanMarxist doom.
Now CORM can shift the fearmongering doomsdaying to teh dirty Mooslinz, and admit the troof that the f*cking r*tarded “professional left” is disgusted with BHO. Great for the campaigns. The end.
2000 is so ancient fucking history.
Tim Kaine’s DNC hasn’t even kept its website current. Here are the last entries on the top five agenda items.
“THE LATEST”
Healthcare September 15, 2009
Energy Independence August 5, 2009
Secure Retirement August 14, 2008
National Security June 4, 2009
Economic Stewardship November 25, 2009
The Democratic Party
http://www.democrats.org/
Musta been an old college student…
Damm the Daily Show showed the Dems have nothing but they are so proud of their nothing.
Maybe thats the only good news to mention on the site?
Well you know he was dumb voting for Nadir.
Obama’s re-election slogan in 2012 will be “Stasis We Can Believe In”.
There’s a reason why Coca-Cola, Apple, and Chevy Trucks never used that slogan to advertise their products.
Nice to see DNC has a bunch of computer savvy staff.
“Paralysis We Can Believe In”
Ditto that!
When Kaine rolled out his great new slogan
I at first thought it was a joke. But he was serious!
I went back at 53 and got a computer science degree. Lotta fuckin’ good it did me when they shipped all the jobs to India.
Kaine was, in fact, terrible last night. “Don’t give them back the keys!” Isn’t that what you were doing with your futile pursuit of bipartisanship? To tell us we can’t have anything that Olympia Snowe or Lindsey Graham doesn’t like, then say “don’t let Republicans back in charge”, is some of the most rank and cynically dishonest campaigning I’ve ever heard.
“He had a bad day”. Oh please. Just pathetic.
Well, I’m not going there but even if he was a senior in 2008 but at least 18 in 2000, that would make him older than the average college student. By almost a decade at the least.
Kids say the darnedest things!
Hmph! Don’t tell me! I got a graphic design degree in 1985 then joined the Navy to serve and to see the world. By the time I got out, pencils and drafting machines were obsolete and I’ve never used my degree!
I find Kaine to be pathetic 110% of the time, but I agree with you.
The whole thing is rather paaaaaaiiinful. I cannot stand Tan Man Boehner, but at this point what difference will it make if he’s the Speaker of the House? Ditto McConnell in the Senate.
FUBAR.
Amazingly Obama somehow seems almost Bush-oblivious to the pain of the middle-class that his detachment from “politicking” has caused. He’s set for life, whether he’s a one-termer or not, and just seems to not give a shit.
I have not seen any evidence of leadership from Obama, just genuflecting towards the money-givers he hopes to contribute heavily to his 2012 campaign.
The only “change” I’ve seen is a continuation of the Bush-era policies of torture, rape of the Constitution and utter detachment from the political process while claiming hollow victories over things like the alleged Health Care reform, written by the Insurance companies, the banking reform written by the banks (which is why they so heartily oppose the nomination of Elizabeth Warren) and the summary execution of American citizens without due process likely based on the word of some penny-ante warlord looking to make a buck off the CIA (and they’re never wrong, are they?).
Hope and Change went out the window when Obama ceded his leadership role to Rahm, and put his manhood in blind trust with Goldman-Sachs.
We’ve been advising friends NOT to send their kids to law school for the same reasons. More and more, even legal work is off-shored to the third world. And that’s a whole lotta $$$$ to end up with no job.
But Obama’s attacking John Boehner!
Talk about punching down. Pitiful.
Yep. NPR only puts this idea up for comment now because they understand that the chance to change the ship’s course is long since past. Now they can bring on boat loads of conservative thinkers to explain why Obama, and the Ds, have lost touch with their base. The explanation will be that Obama has suggested that he might get rid of the Bush tax cuts for the rich, a failure to eliminate terrierism around the world and not being able to close all of the borders to immigration. Fortunately NPR and the rest of the Republican party have a proven solution – abstinence.
Fascinating.
What you say in your whole post is spot on! But…
This is what is so gauling and on some days so painful. That the Barackstar just doesn’t give a sh*t. He got his, eff you. OH, but don’t forget to vote!! Cognitive dissonance, much??
Margaret –
Never found out: what happened with the latest job interview?
Yep. Even in 1985 dollars. And I had a full time job that whole time I was going to school. Wasted, just wasted. Money, effort, sometimes health, all wasted.
Isn’t bipartisanship sort of like taking turns driving?
Apparently nothing. I never heard back and when I followed up, he didn’t seem especially happy to hear from me. :
It’s not just Obama. All of the on-going supporters of the status quo marketed as change want us to be very afraid of the tan one and his ilk. Oh, and send lots of money because it’s the progressive thing to do.
I think it’s more like letting somebody else drive while the people being “bipartisan” laugh and party in the back.
Don’t forget the initiatives to privatize public education and destroy teacher’s unions via Arne’s Race to the Top and progressive think tanks
promoting ed reformspropaganda spewing from Democrats for Education Reform (DEFR) and Center for American Progress(CAP)(John Podesta’s baby).Pffft! I delete dozens of those every day. Got tired of responding that I might consider it if I HAD A JOB!!!
Perfectly stated.
You’d be surprised to know how many folks do not fit the traditional image of the college student. I entered college in 2000, had to stop taking classes for a year or so because I couldn’t afford it. I got my BA in 2006, MA in 2007, and have been working on my PhD since 2008.
I got my CS degree while I was on active duty (got out in ’82)
At least I was able to use it for 20 years before the jobs got sent away.
No, I wouldn’t be. I was hardly a “traditional” college student either. It was just an observation and wasn’t meant to imply or impugn anything.
Where I come from we call that Sick Burn.
I just received a new begagram from DFA:
While I am not in favor of seeing Congress turn over to the republicans, I can’t say I would be sorry to see Nancy and Harry move on down the road.
I loved Stewart’s reaction to the pathetic key fob. Too bad Howard Dean is no longer chairman. The sad truth is there are only a handful of real Democrats left in DC and they are rendered impotent by the so called leadership. Just imagine how many more seats the DEMs could have picked up if Obama and the Senate had even spoonful of political courage? The tragedy is not what we will loose in November, but what we could have gained had they only tried a little.
Sorry to hear that. Cold comfort for you but a common story. Best to you.
My fellow progressives have adopted the mantra being “cry babies”. It’s time to toughen up and stand stall despite what the Democratic Neo (“arch-conservatives) Liberals have designated for themselves to be our gatekeepers for the Democratic Agenda. Of course, I am speaking of the national follies or what passes in politics in our Nation’s capitol
Now, as to my particular circumstances here in Arizona, I am being stalked by SB 1070, and relative to racial profiling. Furthermore, I am being vilified for my human existence due to HB 2281, and thusly, my language, history, and culture, has been eliminated from the public schools. Consequently, the majority of white Democrats approve of all this crappola, and which signifies to me that these white Democrats are actual and practicing arch-conservatives.
So, if Progressives are into the Cup of Joy for not voting for the Democrats during this election cycle, that will, in effect, become a detrimental decision to those of us still practicing our politics here in the Sonoran Desert.
But, as to the election cycle for 2012, or President Obama’s re-election effort, his success will be dependent on Congress passing legislation that implements On-the-Job Training Contracts beneficial to the 15 million of our unemployed citizens. And if this doesn’t occur between now and January, Hispanics and Native American voters are going to “disown” the Democratic Party, and done in large numbers. Obama and Biden will become this proverbial and historical “toast” for practicing their “criminal stupidity”.
Jaango
Cripes. Grow up already. There is no perfect candidate, no perfect president, no instant fix or magic panacea to make things go your way and make all the problems magically disappear and erase the mistakes of the past and present. You have to start somewhere and you do the best you can with the hand your dealt – you set the groundwork and you get to it. Instead of whining because change didn’t come fast enough, how about volunteering to get things done – pick a cause and work for it. Ah, it’s easier just to sit and complain, I get it.
I know, I agree!
That’s why I’m surprised that whenever we see a new post here which details how, in 2010, the Democratic Party is hemorrhaging votes and support from most of its constituencies, a few folks will inevitably make some kind of remark about how the Democratic Party’s failures are Nader’s fault, or that people who voted for Nader in 2000 are dumb, etc. A curious electoral strategy, for sure.
See my post @50. I’m serious when I say: I don’t think we’ll see much difference. BHO, Reid & to a somewhat lesser extent, Pelosi, have spent the past nearly 2 years bending over to take it from the Republics in the name of “bipartisanship.” It’s beyond a sick joke. FUBAR.
When I see the scary scary Boehner emails, I just hit delete. Why should I be any more “scared” of Boehner? Boehner’s getting “his” way already.
Maybe you’ve got other ideas, but I never considered “you’re dumb” to be a particularly effective electoral strategy. But hey, let’s see how it works out for you.
Sadly disappointed in the comments here. Imagine if the progressives had a greater majority in the Senate and Landreu, Nelson, Lieberman,Lincoln voted with us. Would we have the public option now? The way this conversation is going apparently you all think we wouldn’t. You seem to think that the results of the last 20 months are due to a sell out on the President’s part and that there were no outside forces acting in concert with the billionaires who want to run (ruin) the country. Every bit of legislation the President signed was a big fight, with the Republicans saying no to everything. It is all watered down; it is all imperfect; But it is SOMETHING, more than we could have ever gotten with McCain.
So just keep it up. Stay home. Let the Republicans take over and finish ruining the country. George Bush and the neo-cons almost “Starved the Beast”. I’ll bet they were real sad when we won, but with your help they will be back, and their faces will light up when they finish stealing the rest of everything. I guess you guys don’t actually own anything to lose so you don’t really care, but I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and put my retirement in jeopardy because of these thieving bastards and the philosophy of no regulation and free market for the rich. I’m not going to sit by and watch those people who really hurt the economy, the country and all but a few of the American People, get in office again and do their worst.
#if (“the healthcare law is terrible” OR “Obama cares too much about the GOP’s point of view” OR “Obama does not care about the average American”) {#cond (rant about the perfect being the enemy of the good);
#cond (rant about waving magic wands);
#cond (rant about the left wanting ponies)
}
{continue hero worship and belief that Obama and the Democrats cannot fail, they can only be failed}
/end Obamabot
#loop Obamabot
Yeah, like I’ve never done a darn effen thing in my entire life except sit around complaining. It’s a good fictional story to tell yourself… since you *appear to think* that you know so much about everyone’s life stories. Good for you.
Oh, carpooling in a limo charged to someone else’s credit card…
Eh – if that’s what you believe, good for you. I gave up on fairy tales around about March 2008 myself. The truth hurts, but it will set you free.
BTW I think most plan to vote, but we will vote sparingly and only where it makes sense to do so. State and local elections are different.
That pissed me off when Tim Kain claimed Robert Gibbs was “just having a bad day.” Especially when Gibbs came back a couple a days latter and, in essence, apologized for saying out loud what the WH was thinking.
I feel for you and believe what you say. Some of your issues are, of course, localized mainly in AZ for now. Not that those dreadful laws aren’t harbingers for all the rest of us.
I plan to vote, but I will choose carefully who I vote for.
That said, I fail to see how re-electing BHO in 2012 will somehow “save” us or “be better” than a Republican in your case. That’s just me; I may be missing something.
“… but what we could have gained had they only tried a little. “
I think this is the part that bothers me most. The democratic leadership is willing to take any watered down piece of crap and call it a victory but seems unwilling to go to the mat for something worthwhile and lose.
I would rather see them take an issue like the public option to a vote and lose than toss it aside with the “we don’t have the votes” mantra. I want every member of congress put on the spot and made to vote on these issues so that I know who to support and where they stand.
And that is exactly what they are afraid of.
The public option was sold out in a backroom deal, it wasn’t killed by Landrieu & co.
I guess according to Daily Kos, Jon Stewart is now a disloyal Republican sympathizer or something, too. Along with this college kid.
I thought that Gibbs actually refused to apologize about his “professional left” bashing and said he continued “stand” for what he said. Maybe I’m remembering it incorrectly but I didn’t think he walked it back.
But if Kaine said it was just bc Gibbs “had a bad day,” that’s a lie. They’ve been bashing the left base since day one. Which begs the question, why should I behave like a battered spouse as some seem to suggest?
Bingo! Thanks.
Dkos is about 40-60 Obamabots to Professional Left. That 40% though is particularly trollworthy though.
Hmm,
and
You are in the wrong place, lesser evilism doesn’t sell here, the lesser of two evils is still evil.
“why should I behave like a battered spouse as some seem to suggest?”
Exactly.
The flaw in your argument is that many folks in the U.S.–including many progressives–don’t like the ‘something’ they supposedly got from the Democrats during the past two years. You can patronize them, criticize them, yell at them in voice or print, attempt to guilt trip them, call them stupid (as nomolos feels comfortable doing), but none of those strategies work nearly as well as convincing them that the Democrats are worth voting for. Tim Kaine has trouble making this argument, which is why the DNC is running on the whole “We’re not as bad as the other guys” message. Maybe you can do better to convince those of us who have been turned off from the Democrats?
I saw a post here this morning that was at least a little inspiring. This person wanted to go after a few of the republican stars like Backman, Boehner, Foxx and Grassley. Claims a few of those high profile races might be won. It would be nice to turn it around just a little. A few losses could make them a little more agreeable, he thinks. Who knows. But to your point there is a good deal of malaise here. Ever see a losing football team on the benches just before the end of the game? that’s what it’s like around here.
Many, many, many people who read/comment/lurk here at FDL did volunteer time, money (if they had it), both if they could because they were tired of complaining about the previous administration.
Instead of delivering on the promises of “Hope and Change”, Obama seems to have delivered on “there’s a sucker born every minute”. In many cases it’s not that “Change” didn’t come fast enough, it’s that it didn’t come at all.
As a long-time FDL’r, please allow me to say, [Edited by Moderator. Do not insult those with whom you disagree].
Seen at the coffee counter in Portland OR airport:
If you fear change, leave it here….
We are not whining because change didn’t come fast enough.
We are angry that every change takes us more to the right.
No you don’t.
Obama is taking Republican policies and expanding on them.
Open your eyes.
You go, Jo Fish!
I agree. We’re are way past whining, protesting, and stamping of feet. This is a real, deep-seated anger and resentment building. Something’s gonna give.
Rejecting the premise that the GOP are worse, therefore accept this slightly watered down version of Neoliberalism causes the dead enders to “blue screen”.
Next thing you know you will want ponies or a magic wand or you need to seriously grow up and realize that a 59-41 Senate is helpless, helpless, to the whims of a minority. (See also: Bush Tax cuts, Bush War(s, etc)
No we wouldn’t.
Obama traded it away before the bill was even drafted.
The thing is if the other guys win they could be in office for a long time (like 6 to 10 years) and could effectively block any legislation we would like to see, like improved health care. Further, it now appears O is out in 2012 and so that majority really could pass whatever they wanted with no veto threat. That is not what I signed up for either.
Register. Vote. Share the links. Change the world.
As a Christian who takes seriously Jesus command to do unto others what I would have them do unto me, I know that if my child were using marijuana, I’d want to work with him or her as a parent rather than seeing him or her with a criminal record, in jail with the sexual predators, lose their college financial aid, and all of the very real harm that would be caused, not by the marijuana, but by the law. I would hate for that to happen to anyone’s child, but it does, every day. Every single day. It’s the law.
Likewise, if my aging parents were to try a little marijuana to ease the aches and pains of growing older, I would not want to see the police confiscate their home and sell it under the property forfeiture laws. I’d hate for that to happen to anyone’s parent, but it does. Every day. Every single day. It’s the law.
All the anti-prop-19 arguments boil down to “it’s better to put people in jail than to let ordinary Americans grow a little marijuana in their own back yards.”
The key to putting an end to this mess: Register to vote. Just google your state name and the phrase “voter registration”. You’ve got to register well in advance of election day; it only takes five minutes (even if you have to download a form and take it downtown, it’s well worth the effort). All of these links use the usual h t t p : / / w w w prefix:
California:
sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm or to vote by mail
sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_m.htm
Vermont
vermont-elections.org/elections1/registertovote.html
South Dakota:
sdsos.gov/electionsvoteregistration/registrationvoting.shtm
Arizona:
Voter info:
azsos.gov/election/VoterInformation.htm
Register: azsos.gov/election/voterregistration.htm
Michigan: michigan.gov/documents/MIVoterRegistration_97046_7.pdf
Oregon: oregonvotes.org/votreg/vreg.htm
Others: Google your state name and “voter registration.”
College students: You can usually register as a citizen of either your hometown or your college residence town. Share the voter registration info through your student newspaper, twitter, etc.
Everybody: Most states allow early voting and/or vote-by-mail, so once you’re registered, go ahead and request a ballot (at the voter info site for your state). Save a trip to the polls and get it done while you’re thinking about it.
5 minutes. Change the world. Share the links.
Thank you! I’m tired of fools dissing me here because – according them(based on some crystal ball they look into, I guess) – it’s ME that just hasn’t “done enough.” Jesus on a PogoStick. Really beyond annoying given all that I’ve DONE and the money I’ve DONATED over the course of my life, including now. Just bc I blog doesn’t automatically connote to mean that I do “nothing else.” Sheesh. I am capable of doing much more than just blogging.
Piss off, indeed. I concur.
Less lousy than them. Nice.
All anybody here has ever asked is that the President FIGHT for the things he campaigned on. LEAD on the issues he promised change on. ACT on the problems he swore he would address. If you have seen that, you have different vision than me and most of the commenters here.
No comment on your content: just pointing out that boilerplate comments are really really frowned upon here. Please stop it.
You can write your own FDL diary and post your content there. thanks.
I sympathize with your plight. Your conclusions, I think, are what people here are objecting to. What if, during the SOTU, Obama stood up and unzipped his veneer and out popped Bush? That’s basically what’s going on, except we libs were thrown a few symbolic bones in Jan 2010.
So where’s the veto threat now?
I get what you’re saying, but with respect, I believe that ALL of the Dems sold out a long time ago. The SCOTUS decision “Citizens United” effectively put the oligarchs in charge. THAT’s the reality that needs to be grasped, imo. I firmly believe that the 2 party system is no more, and engaging in “us v. them” politics as usual is just playing into the hands of the corporations.
We need to come up with something new. What’s that cliche about doing the same other over & over again, while expecting to get a different result is the definition of craziness??? Continuing to believe that voting for Dems is somehow “better” than Rs is, uh, not such good thinking. Something different is needed.
“…is that the President FIGHT for the things he campaigned on.”
Please note that I expect that he would lose on some of them but I STILL NEED TO SEE SOME FIGHT.
(and not with the progressives in his own party!)
Amen
“Would we have the public option now? The way this conversation is going apparently you all think we wouldn’t.”
No, we wouldn’t, because Obama gave it away in a secret meeting.
“It is all watered down; it is all imperfect”
Obama wants to be able to assassinate Americans without trial, which W never even asked for–what is that a watered-down version of? Illegal immigration is down but Obama is deporting more people than Bush; what is that a watered-down version of? Same with his increase of Predator drone strikes, his expansion of executive privilege secrecy, his increase in offshore drilling, and of course his escalation of the war in Afghanistan. Not to mention his long-running quest to cut Social Security benefits.
This “sure it’s imperfect, but it’s a step in the right direction so you have to be patient” nonsense simply doesn’t apply to most people’s criticisms of Obama. Stop knocking down straw men and engage people where they are.
If my memory serves, he didn’t “walk it back” and stood by what he said. But conceded, he should not have said it to the press.
Exactly. He hasn’t actually fought for anything. As a president, he’s been impotent.
Good show, I think you’ve got it!
yes, but you see, we lost but not by a hell of a lot. A few votes, like the man said, and it would have been all different.
Spot on. I’ve seen the President doing more in the past few weeks than in two years. It might have been true that the PO was never going to happen, but it had what 60-70% approval? Really could no one whip votes for that or go to congressional districts and move Congresspeople? He either laid around and did nothing or intended the outcome from the get go. I have no idea which, one is a question of experience/judgment the other a question of good faith dealing.
EXACTLY!! We’ve never seen BHO fight for a d*mn thing that he promised he would over & over in his campaign. Look, I’m an adult and clearly have NO expectation of fairy tales. I know that a lot of campaign promises never come to pass. But BHO’s “track record” is less than zero. Spare me. BHO campagined as a somewhat left of center politician, but he’s run his Admin as a corporatist rightwing politician. Let’s not mince words, and let’s not blame it all on the Blue dogs. sheesh.
Not to mention Obama authorizing the use of Predator drones INSIDE THE U.S.!
And these fucking automatons want to argue we’re making progressive strides. Jeebus.
No offense. I completely disagree. I think what you’re saying is continuing to live in a fairy tale (said with respect; I know it sounds means; sorry).
I think what killed me was that drug reimportation had the fabled bipartisan support, was probably going to pass and got the shiv to the kidneys at the 13th hour by the White House. It was good policy, popular, and was bipartisan, but it didn’t help big business.
heh… yeah, I’ll BET he did “regret” saying it to the press, who’ve done nothing but spank him ever since. Joan Walsh was spanking him & Rahm last night on Tweety… was rather amusing.
So, ok. I see what you’re saying, but Gibbsy stood by it. Thinks we’re all a buncha truth-telling louts, I guess.
Gosh darn golly hot damn. Y’all get NPR down there in Texas? Ain’t that like Russia Today? [Was stationed down there in San Angelo whilst in the Army -- holy crap, what a hell-hole.]
Nowadays gotta listen to the Trolls posting on FDL: “Stay home come election day, papa want a brand new bag!” is about the same message over and over here.
Why doncha just admit it that you’re a closet conservative working out of the Hoover Institute and pumping your swill like you is some disaffected Dem. Admit it. You love John Boehner and wanna see his orange face banging the gavel at impeachment hearings! But can’t point to any Repug programs to flaunt, so the better angel is to tell the dems to stay home.
Screw you. I’m voting and voting Dem come November.
Yeppers. That one is a particular classic, so let’s see who we can BLAME that on… bc some here will have it that somehow Pres Hopey-Changey really really really really wanted to do but – facepalm – just couldn’t.
As I said: we’re in a new paradigm, which is that it’s not about Rs v. Ds, and citizens need to wake up to how “had” they are. There really won’t be much difference if Tan Man Boehner is the Speaker (ugh puke).
All the pols are owned by the corporations, as your example so aptly illustrates. Thanks for that reminder. A good one.
“We’ve never seen BHO fight for a d*mn thing that he promised he would over & over in his campaign.”
What does he fight for? He fought for the Catfood Commission after Congress said no thanks. He fought for Ben “Do Nothing” Bernanke when Congress was considering turning him down. But if Congress says no to protecting the environment or helping unions, Obama just throws up his hands and says “nothing I can do! don’t have the votes!”
Go for it.
Exactly. More good examples. Thanks. Keep ‘em coming. Some here persist in the belief that we’re all “secret Republicans.”
Well, no, not really, but I stand on: believe what I see, not the lies I’m told.
Do you think that some of the doubters here today will wake up when the Obama Catfood Commission takes away some of their Social Security? Or some of their Medicare?
What will it take?
I found it quite gauling that Democrat Bart Stupak managed to make inroads on abortion rights via HCR, and the Barackstar clapped and cheered. Yeah, that was a GREAT eye-opener. 8 years of the Bush admin didn’t result in nearly as much damage to women’s right to choose as – what? – about 15 months of Democratic BHO’s Admin???????????????
Wake up.
And we still have DADT, which, if nothing else, is wasting a lot of money kicking out highly trained military personnel who really want to serve… for what reason?? None that I can see. And BHO won’t even take the step to put those currently under review on “hold” until the final decision is made on DADT.
Change that I canNOT believe in.
We can say he would have voted for Nader.
I’m actually glad you mentioned health care, because that issue in particular (which Obama claims as the centerpiece of his administration) illustrates my point. Most posters at FDL and most Americans prefer some form of public health care system. The Democratic Party drafted and signed into law a HCR bill instead, one that I think most posters at FDL and most Americans don’t regard as facilitating “improved health care”. In fact, many people here think that we’d be better off without the HRC bill at all. Obviously, the Republican Party will not draft or pass the kind of health care legislation we want to see either. So… neither party will give the majority of Americans what we want. Can you blame voters for shrugging their shoulders and saying, “Well, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t, so I’m going to focus my attention elsewhere”?
Indeed. They’re lining up the predator drones right now to use at the border. Good going, Barack! That’s the change I voted for!!! NOT.
Oh – was Barack just “forced” to use the predators by ??? someone??? And he couldn’t “help it.” So we should vote for BHO again, bc who knows? Maybe he’ll “do better” the next time. Sheesh.
Does that ever actually work?
“I stand on: believe what I see”
No! No! Believe in Tim Kaine’s little keychain!
The beatings will continue until morale improves. I for one am ready to stop my abuse cycle with the Democrats, though I bet if we have even larger majorities then, then they will love us, right?
I forgot about HAMP, too. My dogs distracted me. Obama could have put forth any mortgage modification program he wanted and Snowe or Lieberman or DeMint or whoever couldn’t stop him. What did we get? A program that helps banks and hurts homeowners. I know, I know, don’t let the perfect be etc.
Just got an OFA “Astro-Turfish” Letter from BHO’s copy of MS Word asking me to go vote for a Dem this fall.
Rewrote it and posted both on a Seminal diary. Can you imagine what might have happened if he’d have sent my rewrite when he needed it?
But then that might have been construed as actual “Leadership”.
That’s what I use the “junk” button for now, Democratic appeals.
That made me laugh. Thanks.
Darn that doggie!! arf arf. Ah yes: the fantabulousness that is HAMP, which inured to the benefit of the rip-off banks & mortgage lenders, certainly NOT to the benefit of the “small people.”
Sure: change I can believe in… /s
I like the straw man stuff pretty much – except for the straw man stuff.
So we’re either with you or we are against you. Everyone that disapproves of the current path of the Ds and Obama is actually a Republican. Dissent over policies that generally appear no different than the previous administration is not acceptable and observations that running on “We suck less than the other guys” are completely out of line.
If I thought blind acceptance was the best way to get the Ds to change their currently disastrous course of being pro-war and pro-corporate bailouts I’d be right there with you.
Democrats can’t failed, they can only be failed.
Battered wife syndrome works so well – eh? Well said.
I reckon that even IF we got 100% of the voters to vote 100% Democratic, we’d be in the same boat we’re in now. “Citizens United” changed the paradigm. Keep voting for Ds if it pleases you, but the only “joy” you’ll get is when you pull that lever. After that, all bets are off.
I remember when people used to argue whether writing code was an art or a science. Now we know. It’s labor.
You nailed us,
that is exactly why we keep hounding the Democrats for not supporting the liberal agenda.
Made me laugh! thx.
Gotta run (to go work at the local Republican headquarters… /s). It’s been real. Keep the faith or something, firepups.
Actually the government has been calling programming a service for quite a while. Much like washing dishes. This was done so that bringing in H1Bs – indentured servants – would not effect the professional classes nor would it effect tracking of professional wages.
C#, the lazy programmer’s C++.
…me too. I got mine at age 57, same result.
Actually, they didn’t bring programmers in, the shipped the specs to India, modules coded by various firms, the modules assembled by Micro$oft. I remember when folks at M$ complained that IBM programmers were shitty coders because of all the extraneous code they wrote. I don’t know how many million lines of code makes up Windoze 7.
C# – Visual Basic with some C++ syntax merged into a package designed to cure Java envy and avoid platform portability.
Yeah but there are plenty of other non-MS jobs that have been eaten up via H1Bs.
And it’s actually used by a lot of firms. My boss’s son is a whiz and now heads up the programming dept (250K+/yr) at a big financial firm in NJ. They like C# cuz it saves ‘em so much time. Lot of code being written in it today. I still like C but then I’m just a dinosaur. Still like Java, too.
Oh, I certainly won’t argue with that.
Weak minded Democrats were encouraged to become Nader haters by their tribal elders. They got a lot of positive feed back for a long time. It’s nonsense but we are still hearing it ten years later.
Y’all are killin me today. (yes I can still write code)
That’s actually very interesting. I had no idea.
Btw Dkos has diary up accusing a FDL poster of “doing the full nader.” You stay classy obamabots, stay classy.
“….hounding the Democrats for not supporting the
liberal agendaparty platform.”Well, y’all have done a fine job, but I can’t resist my two cents. Our critics here seem to think people like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln obstructed Obama’s wishes. They don’t seem aware that, even if for the sake of argument, we agree that their votes for health care or anything else were obtainable, no one in the leadership, from Obama through Reid on down, ever tried to get them to change their votes. Lieberman wasn’t even punished for running against the Democratic nominee in his state (see what Repubs plan for Murkowski if she tries it).
There are 2 explanations – either O and Reid etc have no guts, or defeat was what they really wanted. The prevailing belief here is the second.
I noticed that too. I liken it to Glenn Beck trying to turn “social justice” into a dirty word.
We ‘uns should get together and code up some AI to replace the neoliberals.
HEAR HEAR! Great post!
???? Great post? Apparently the poster has never read any FDL, certainly seems ignorant of Jane’s “Just Say Now” campaign. The post reads like an argument aimed at those who’ve never thought about the issue.
Even worse, all th info on how to vote? Here? at FDL? Like we don’t already know all this?
Definitely in the wrong place.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation.
James Clarke
OK so we disagree, but to me a few votes is not that bad. It is not a fairy tale. What we need is an improved strategy to put more of our people in office and knock them off balance (you know like taking out Bachman, et al and keeping out the rif raff like Angle, et al) so they are more amenable to what we want. There’s a little psyc there too since if your stars get picked off you will be more cautious. you could say it like a military campaign. So I don’t like what has happened but we need to rebuild and counter their strategy of “no”. It is not time to run and hide or you may be hiding for a very long time. That said, every race is different.
I agree with goes. Citizens United serves to consolidate their power. Its just another brick in the wall. People who want to spend the next twenty years “reforming” the Party just don’t know what time it is. It’s later than you think.
According to NPR headlines Pastor Jones has canceled his Saturday Extravaganza.
What a rookie move on his part, you have to go through with the crazy to be eligible for wingnut welfare.
A Christian appeal to new voters to support the repeal of prohibition. I think you are being a bit stuffy. I like it.
If I were still a registered Democrat, that would certainly give me pause.
It’s interesting that all through this thread there are the “it’s your fault” theme for not voting for this or that or the other thing. This is another twisting of priorities designed to further strip democracy from the voters, and a key way to neutralize the left. If the Dems want the left vote then they have to get to the left of Nader or whoever else is running. That of course, violates the unwritten rule that punching down at hippies is always the correct thing to do.
Let’s just get back to basics:
If you want somebodies vote, find out what they want and do it.
And
If you don’t do what that voter wants, you don’t get their vote.
I still would like to hear from you how the Democrats are going to change any of this. It’s interesting that you assume that Progressives “don’t own anything to loose”. Are you by any chance calling us dirty f***ing hippies? I’ve lost quite a bit myself, but my personal situation doesn’t change the facts–the Democrats are going to continue to screw us just like the Republicans, they’ll just be a little sneakier about it.
I like your response. It asks the right questions. Let me see if I can improve on my argument and perhaps you can see it from my angle. “The flaw in your argument is that many folks in the U.S.–including many progressives–don’t like the ’something’ they supposedly got from the Democrats during the past two years. But none of those strategies work nearly as well as convincing them that the Democrats are worth voting for.” Tim Kaine has trouble making this argument, which is why the DNC is running on the whole “We’re not as bad as the other guys” message. Maybe you can do better to convince those of us who have been turned off from the Democrats?”
I did not say that I “liked” the somethings. I said they were far more than we could have gotten with McCain. I believe that to be a true statement. “Secret back room deals” can’t really be a secret if we know about them and if they really are secret then we don’t know about them for sure do we? (replying to some other comments here). As far as the key fob, that is a poorly designed strategy, but it is a strategy. I would rather the talking point be expressed in positives rather than negatives, as in: “We are absolutely better than the other guys.” Considering that our choices are limited, it is a viable option to vote for the lesser of the two evils, and for some here the argument seems to be that they are both equally as bad and it doesn’t matter which one wins. I disagree. There have been positives from the Obama Administration. They just haven’t been advertised like they should. My biggest complaint like many here is that the Dems aren’t fighting back like I wish they would. Maybe we will see a change in the next 2 months. I hope so. But back to my main point. I believe that if we allow the Republicans to get back in power, then NONE of the things we as progressives want will EVER happen, and that over time, things will swing our way as long as we keep on fighting and winning. If we give up, and I guess that is my main issue with this whole topic, then we will have nothing. So this is a long and hard fight, not just one election but a generation where we have to keep struggling, and we cannot give up just because we don’t get instant gratification. If we got this President a Congress that would pass what he promised us and he vetoes it then we need a new President. But when he is faced with all the problems he inherited, along with a Congress that is often his opponent rather than his helper I will cut him some slack.
Full disclosure: I’m a centrist (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) so I knew I was going to hate his fiscal policies at least as much as I hated Bush Jr’s.
I never believed in the “Obama as the Agent of Change” or all of his vague Hopery. From before the Democratic Convention I saw him as just another politician with a wafer-thin resume’. The two things that I hoped he might actually go after – even if just to keep up appearances – were DADT and Global Warming.
Absolutely worthless.
I hear you, and my political “persuasion” is perhaps not so different from yours. Republics dropped the mantal of so-called “fiscal conservatism” a long time ago, imo. That’s one of my bigger arguments with the R’s. They bamboozle their voters with promises about making life miserable for gays, minorities, women, etc, but “claim” they’re fiscally conservative when they’re not. That’s the biggest rip-off of all.
I wasn’t thrilled about BHO, myself, but, like you, I thought he’d step up to accomplish a few things, such as what you mention: DADT, global warming, maybe some tweaks (at least) for infrastructure.
Boyohboy, not even close. As fiscally irresponsible as R’s, as beholden to corporations as R’s and a worse record than R’s in many ways on social issues. Ptoui! Voting for this mob is just nutty, albeit I’m not at all thrilled to think of R’s in full power. But D’s did it to themselves (maybe their goal). Whatever… the die is cast now. Too late to make any “real” change, not that I expect that.
Yes, the usual conservative “slander” that us liberals are nothing other than a bunch of lazy, worthless, no-job-by-choice, welfare bludgers who had “nothing to lose.” That is yet another RushGlenn corporate rightwing talking point that they love to toss in our faces here. Heard it all too often, along with other junk like we liberals never pay taxes, so we’re all happy to spend “other people’s” tax money. A load of bull, but who’s counting?
Totally untrue; many liberals lost just as much or more as any of the ladeda wealthier citizens… in fact, it has probably been much more harmful for those in the middle and below.
To suggest that we don’t give a crap bc we’re poor, on welfare, don’t have savings, own a home, own stocks is just a load of crap and an excuse for lazy or no thinking. Great way to blame the battered wife for what happens to her, especially when she finally says: enough!! I’m outta here.
You don’t have to “shout.” I think most of us read your post without the bold. You’re certainly entitled to your point of view and to vote however you want. We will have to agree to disagree. Can’t see the point in going back to my hubby who beats me senseless, but then later apologizes and promises to buy me a new dress.
I’m done with that, thanks.
Thanks. Short and to the point. I fail to see how this simple concept eludes some voters. Why I should waste my time “hoping” that “some day” the Dems will “finally” do what they “promised” is beyond me.
Say what you want about compromises, the blue dogs, the nasty repubs, BHO did NOT try… not at all. There was a LOT he could have done. IF he failed TRYING, that’s one thing. But BHO did not even TRY.
Get over it: he’s just not that into Democrats and what they stand for and what they vote for. Bait ‘n switch. Time to cut bait and move on.
Dear Progressive
I have seen and had ENOUGH failure from the progressive side of politics. ENOUGH! I want progressives to succeed. We cannot play nice with conservatives. I save my compassion for the poor, the working man and woman, the unemployed, the retired elderly and disabled and the disenfranchised.
This failure comes from the REFUSAL to use consumer boycotts against conservatives and their friends by progressives suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. In fact I now refuse to help so called progressive organizations that will not boycott the friends of conservatives in order to put pressure on the conservatives to do as we demand.
I do not have compassion for bull headed conservatives bent on ruining other people’s lives.
The way we do not play nice involves what Gandhi would do, namely shun those and their friends who seek to ruin other people’s lives. I did not originate boycotts but I appear new in adapting the boycott to political and legislative outcomes.
I have created the following strategies for getting other legislation and it appears easy to create something as I had for busting up the deal between Google and Verizon. I cannot easily drop Verizon but I wrote to Google and told them I stropped using their search engine and other products and I told them that I will get other people to contact them to threaten a huge boycott of them until they capitulate to our demands that they stop that deal with Verizon!
Also
I have created a new liberal legislative political party: The Liberal Democratic Party of the United States.
We do not raise money.
We do not handle money.
We do not break up your Party. You remain in your own chosen party for the purpose of elections but you also join mine for the purpose of getting needed legislation and political action.
We tell you how not to spend your money and get legislation for
not spending money with well known conservative contributors.
It costs nothing to join this party but some of your day
sending these emails and getting many others to send these emails.
We can get progressive legislation with a new strategy.
Please pass this email to your friends as soon as possible. Thank you.
Instead of petitioning a corporate corrupted congress for legislation, petition the corporate friends of conservatives in both the GOPranos and the Democratic party for legislation and include a boycott threat in your email petitions as you see below. Spread the word please.
You can find the full list of emails here
http://www.hoflink.com/~dbaer/help-me-change-america1.htm
Below, you can see some of the examples of emails found on the web site.
send this email to contacttheboard@riteaid.com at Rite Aid for a strong public option.
To the Rite Aid CEO:
I join with many other people who demand that you get congress and the President to enact a single payer health care plan that will work like HR676 but will not ban private insurance. Your company PAC has given money to conservatives over the years.
This public option will get fully funded by US government general federal taxes.
People will have no monthly premiums, no copays, no yearly deductibles, no coverage gaps, no means tests and no yearly or lifetime caps for coverage.
This public option will cover 100 percent of the cost of: all doctor’s visits including dental visits, all generic and patented medications, surgery and all hospital visits, hospice and nursing home residence and abortion, contraception and other family planning costs.
People can choose this single payer public option health care plan at will even if they had or have private plans presently.
People will have the option to choose private plans or keep the private plans that they have now.
This legislation should appear implemented as amendments to HR676
Until this legislation gets enacted into law, I REFUSE to do business with Rite Aid Pharmacies
Do as I demand, or you will lose my business and the business and income from many other people as myself.
Good day.
send this email to Brown-Forman@b-f.com at Brown Forman to stop conservatives from filibustering legislation.
To the Brown Forman CEO:
Your company PAC has given money to Sen. Mitch McConnell in the past. I will not buy Jack Daniels Whiskey and Southern Comfort until you convince Mitch McConnell to stop all filibusters on legislation and holds on appointments for the duration of the Obama administration.
Good Day.
send this email to contacttheboard@riteaid.com at Rite Aid for a Real prescription drug benefit in Medicare Part B.
To the Rite Aid CEO
Congress and the President must enact a new prescription drug benefit in Medicare Part B covering 80% of the cost of all patented and generic drugs with no extra monthly premiums, no extra yearly deductible, no means tests, no coverage gaps, no late sign up penalties and remove the means test for Medicare Part B and this benefit will get administered by the government and not any private company and until that happens, I refuse to buy ANYTHING from Republican contributor Rite Aid Pharmacies.
Good day.
send this email to john_barker@wendys.com at Wendy’s corporation for a $10 an hour minimum wage.
To the Wendy’s CEO
Congress and the President must enact a $10/HR MINIMUM WAGE into law and until this happens I will not go to any Republican contributor Wendy’s Restaurants.
Good Day.
send this email to Brown-Forman@b-f.com at Brown Forman to get the employee free choice enacted into law.
To the Brown Forman CEO
Brown-Forman of Kentucky, the maker of Jack Daniels Whiskey and Southern Comfort gave Mitch McConnell money for his campaigns. SENATOR McCONNELL MUST MUST GET CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT TO ENACT HR 1409,S 560 THE EMPLOYEE FREE CHOICE ACT INTO LAW AND AND UNTIL THAT HAPPENS I WON’T BUY JACK DANIELS WHISKEY OR SOUTHERN COMFORT OR ANY OTHER OF BROWN-FORMAN’S PRODUCTS.
Good Day.
send this email to war contractor General Electric Corporation at gary.sheffer@ge.com and demand a resolution from congress ending the Iraq and Afghan wars.
Dear Sir
I demand that your CEO get the Congress and the President to enact a resolution to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and remove the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and until then I will not buy any consumer items from war contractor and Republican contributor General Electric Corporation.
Good day.
Socially liberal fiscal conservative? LIBERTARIAN! GO join that party.
These are loony, of course, but I’ll defend your right to be silly.
Last year, during the phoney health care drama, I said to my spouse regarding Obama:
“I bet on the boxer in the blue trunks, and he threw the fight”.
My spouse replied, “Threw the fight? He didn’t even show up for the fight!”
Bush did everything via a 51 vote required Budget reconciliation bill. Obama CHOSE to follow a 60 vote path – and when forced to go the 51 vote budget reconciliation route on Health care reform, Obama ordered the public option to not be part of that vote. Your point that Congress forced our progressive president to act like a right wing GOPer flies in the face of the facts.
I will not be con’ed again – fool me once and all that….
Well then, the die is cast. Most of us are just echoing the thoughts of the whole country, or so I believe. The vote will prove us right or wrong. Can the Democrats accept the evidence or will it just be 2 more years of denial leading up to another defeat in 2012?
This time for sure!
You’re extra-convincing when you accuse left-wingers of being poor to try to push them to vote for the Democrats.
However, have you considered that people who vote for the Democrats are unable to achieve orgasm without using a pair of ladies’ shoes?