God is basically Ayn Rand with a great big bushy beard, according to Michael Medved, who may not be a great theological thinker, but who at least ought to know from ghastly misbegotten facial hair.
It’s a stupid article but it does tell us a lot about the beliefs of crackpot hard right wingnut jihadists like Medved, whose belief system is about to run and wreck the country because the Democratic Party refuses to act like liberals.
For more than a hundred years liberals and conservatives have been arguing over the true meaning of justice. The left emphasizes just outcomes—seeking smaller gaps between rich and poor, and a comparably dignified standard of living for all members of society. The right stresses just procedures –making sure that individuals keep the fruits of their own labors and remain secure in their property, without seizure by their neighbors or by government.
This is dogma, which I’m using as a polite term for “a devoutly believed-in article of bullshit right-wing faith.” The actual “left” believes that the United States should not be a game preserve, theme park, or toxic waste dump for a highly privileged minority. The actual “right” believes they should be allowed to use the power of the state to ensure that a highly privileged minority gets to piss on whoever they want, and that they shouldn’t pay taxes because fuck you.
Medved says this is the Message of the Almighty. No, really.
If the Bible is indeed the word of God (as a big majority of Americans say they believe it is), then it’s difficult to escape the conclusion that the Almighty would cast his all-important ballot for Republicans…. the Biblical view directly contradicts the leftist inclination: no, you can’t unjustly confiscate wealth from those who created it to fulfill the righteous goal of helping the poor. The Bible insists that no matter how worthy your purposes, you must employ only righteous means in achieving them.
Which would be persuasive if “taxes” equate to “unjust confiscation,” a view that’s actually fairly extremist by historical and rational standards, even if it’s the Word of the LORD in Medved’s circles. Heck, Medved is basing this nonsense on the Torah; his interpretation might perhaps come as a bit of a surprise therefore to, say, the state of Israel. Don’t they even know over there how badly they are pissing off the Creator of All? Maybe Medved should send them a note.
Medved also seems to believe that the US legal system is Satanically geared towards helping the poor at the expense of the helpless, cruelly oppressed rich. I’d rebut this point but I might be forced to use bad words in doing so, and I am a gentleman.
In short, if your God is all about how you shouldn’t have to pay taxes, but is all right with the state letting corporations sell you salmonella, permitting torture, starting stupid wars, and making kids bring toilet paper to school with them along with their pencils and notebooks, well, your God can blow it out his ass, quite frankly, I say with as much courtesy as I can at present muster.
[edited to correct Michael Medved's name]



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wedthersday nite!I believe the Bible has a lot of remarks about how to treat other people, all the way from Moses to Jesus, and none of which would find favor with Stossel and his buddies on the right.
THERSday!
I do think that Mr. Stossel might want to check out Matthew 25. very instructive. Then there is always that bit about the rich man and the eye of a needle (and it is not a postern gate as there was never a gate of that name in Jerusalem) and “those who have enjoyed their rewards in this life shall not do so in the next.”
Also, taxes are the price you pay for living in a civilized society.
I’m a Christian. I’m conservative on social issues and liberal on economic issues. Stossel doesn’t know what he is talking about. Jesus would take one look at today’s Republican Party and wince. They are fueled by hate and ignorance. I think the only problem Jesus would have with the left is their support for abortion. I’m against abortion unless a woman’s health is in danger or she has been raped. Long story short, Stossel has a creepstache and doesn’t what he’s talking about.
Great post THERS
here is something for Stossel and the rest of the pontificators of elite and wealthy that are so divine….
And we now have the prospect of a Senate full of people like Joe Miller (Social Security is unconstitutional) and Rand Paul (too much foolishsness to list) and even gawd help us, whatshername in Nevada. It’s depressing. I’ve got a temp assignment in the morning — the economy must be improvinng! — so can’t stay, but geez. Wish I could stay for LLN whre the topics are usually lighter.
Suze – do you know if Margaret has heard about her potential job?
It’s not gonna take a whole lot more of this right-wing Supply Side Jesus shit before I start puking green fire and ball lightning.
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Matthew 19: 21
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth Matthw 19 : 22
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19: 23
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19: 24
I don’t think “God can blow it out his ass” is in there either.
You beat me to it. I owe you a drink.
Stossel might have a point if the rich didn’t suck at the govt tit.
*heh* Do you suppose that their minscule brains would suddenly implode if they ever realize that Jesus was really a lentil-stirring DFH…? Maybe the first one ever…? ;-)
Aloha, Thers…!
I hear ya…I think there are millions who are ready to engage in mass projectile heaves in the direction of the ‘holier than thou’….
Also wondering why the wingnuts don’t pay attention to that part of the NT about the Beatitudes. Rhetorical comment.
I do believe that the good Rabbi Yeshua would be sorely tempted to get Medieval on their asses.
raise your glass Hugh…prosit!
hahaha,thats how they got filthy rich
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich
manasshole to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19: 24A fix for Matthew from Matt!
Your outta line there, Hugh. Today’s Xtianists don’t believe in hippy Jesus anymore. That’s so last century, man. No, they’re all on about Prosperity, wherein if you’re rich it’s because God, HIMself, smiles down upon you, but if you’re poor, it’s because you’re an evil sinner deserving of the worst kinds of damnation and retribution imaginable. Plus the Old Testament rules! You know: where God is all jealous, angry, smiting “others” and there’s slaves and all.
Get with the program, dude!! You’re gonna be Left Behind!
thers is picking up mrs thers at the airport — hopefully he will be joining us soon
until then, i guess ya’ll are stuck with me.
God created FDL folks out of clay, then he crapped out the wingnuts.
a lot of that aound here…the church goers FEED each other,not the poor or hungary
scratches head….
bravo!
Wow, I don’t know where to begin. I could only suggest that before making statements like these
that he actually know WTF he is talking about. As he seems to be too lazy to look around at the actual wealthy and their behavior perhaps he can view the documentary “Born Rich”, made by Jamie Johnson, heir to the Johnson & Johnson fortune, in which he demonstrates conclusively that those who inherited their wealth (most of them) are often not within a million miles of the production of that wealth. They do not work for those companies, even as managers: all the work that is done to produce the wealth that they enjoy is performed by other people. If Stoessel insists that one “employ only righteous means” in acquiring one’s wealth then a full confiscatory tax on all inherited wealth is appropriate. Thanks for the idea John.
General comment: Have long been an observer of selective selection of biblical passages to support the meme du jour.
So the one analytical exercise I’ve been able to think of is this: Take the OT, NT, Koran, and make a mark in one of three columns for each paragraph in the following categories: militant, nonmilitant, neither. Then take them as a % of total # of paragraphs. I think it would make a GREAT MA thesis in religion. Guessing that ranking would be, in order of militancy: OT, Koran, NT.
Dya think.
I’m encouraged to see so many here can quote the good book. #3#4#5#8, etc. Praise Jesus
that’s just fine Suzanne…no problem…
Most of the very rich (top 1% of income distribution) have substantial inherited wealth and are largely a parasitic rentier class. The rest are members of a predatory managerial class which bleeds their workers to enrich themselves.
You forgot the part about how the poor could pray, along for their own salvation, for riches too. And if the poor were worthy and born again, gawd would answer their prayers.
spot on
total aliens
that is why i love the story of Siddhartha
God was created in the image of man. I can’t believe anyone really thinks otherwise.
…i guess ya’ll are stuck with me.
Well that totally bites…! 8-P
Most Tea Partiers are not that wealthy. Why they feel beholden to support the uber-wealthy from ever having to pay taxes eludes me.
But your point is well taken. The children of the uber-wealthy usually have little to nothing to do with anything that can be considered productive, esp in terms of, you know, actually working and making money.
But geez, we must protect the Paris Hilton’s of this world. Wouldn’t want Paris to have to tighten her belt in the slightest, now would we?
hahaha how cute
Oh Suz. How much better could Late Nite be? No offense to Thers, of course.
Actually, the data I have seen on the Tea Baggers indicates that they are in the top 5-10%, which is pretty damned affluent.
Yes, and no. Mostly these days, they’ve all gotten so nasty-@ssed that the poor really don’t stand a chance. If you’re poor, you’re done for. Not much chance for any retribution or improvement. Go straight to hell.
There is no god, but myths are an important part of human life.
Well, geez. Who else is more worthy of imitation?
Well, for shame on you. You live in the real world. I’m trying to place myself in their reality-creation world. /s
Some are, including my family… well possibly not quite that level but doing well enough. But plenty are not that well off at all.
But even my family members don’t make that much money. Why they feel obligated to “protect” the upper 3% from any taxes remains a concept that I do not grasp. There is no benefit for my family in that. Makes no sense.
Think this pretty well sums up my theology.
In reflection on Mr. Stossel and the rest of his faithful:
back to the Titanic
steerage was left to die
metaphor
HCR ,SS?
The right wants to make it sound like the tax cuts are for mom and pop and their hardware store, instead they help people like (from the film I mentioned) Jamie Johnson’s dad and Donald Trump’s daughter, bored and trying to buy a purpose in life that they never have had.
I bet God has a “creepstache”.
BTW my sibling told me today all about her “wonderful” experience at the Beckerhead rally…. including the fact that she was very proud that they rode the METRO from MD to the Mall.
I restrained myself from shrieking: you rode the SOCIALIST Metro??? Horrors!!
Reality does not apply in Tea Party land.
I love that video…
: )
Not denying the power of myths. The important Q is why some myths catch on in some environments, and other myths in other environments. Care to opine on why the U.S. is stuck in the OT myths of ‘Promised Land,’ coupled with the NT myths of crucifixion, followed by resurrection, rather than by the Golden Rule Myth? There are many competing myths, so the real Q is why each era selects the ones they do.
If Ronald Reagan was so great, what’s wrong with his tax rates, you miserable shirking rich scions and heiresses?
Indeed, my mother (RIP) used to whine and whine to me about poor, poor “family farm” folks who would just be so overburdened with taxes. When I tried to explain to her that, firstly, the tax rates wouldn’t affect the very few family farms left, and secondly, Monsanto (or similar) had long ago gobbled up most family farms… mom just put her fingers in her ears and went: lalalalalala can’t hear you.
Conservatives seek ways to live in fantasyland. They’re not interested in reality. Guess it’s too depressing or something.
That was nice of you to show restaint. I have family like that too.
trying to remember who was the fool that said this week (or was it last) that if you are in church and the preacher starts talking about social justice, to get up and walk out.
Here is another offering from my hymnal.
power of the myth
i miss that guy and Moyers too
OMG. Did they avoid all the Metro lines that were unsafe? I don’t know the D.C. metro but there was a post by a Maine Teabagger (iirc) about which are safe & which aren’t.
Not to mention your cogent point that riding the metro at all is clearly something only a socialist would do.
Well, Ronnie wasn’t really the messiah they had been waiting for after all. They have now found ones that pay off better.
Hey, you want an in-depth discussion of the bible, find yourself a committed atheist. Not that these posters are atheists, but in general. Just sayin’.
Good questions! I am particularly miffed that the Golden Rule no longer applies. And even with observing my nutty family, I have no answer.
Pretty much any of the wingnut blabbermouthes.
the dementia ridden hater was the sane one,go figur
See my post @29, but in my opinion the overwhelming majority of the population do not know about people like the Johnson’s or the Waltons and how much of what our society produces is controlled by them.
A few more, all except the last are from the Sermon on the Mount, this is King James, so sorry for the language:
Matthew 5: 40-43
And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also
And whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him two
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away
Matthew 6 : 1-3
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth
Matthew 6: 12 (from the Lord’s Prayer)
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors
Matthew 6: 19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
Matthew 21 : 12-13
Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
“It is written,” he said to them, ” ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a ‘den of robbers.’”
no.your kiddin?
Well, a polite suggestion. Next time, ask them what they think about the GR. No need to follow up. The Q sez it all.
Do any of you like jelly on toast?
I don’t hate Christianity, just “Christians.” (Not really even all of them, just the Stossels, the Douchehats, K-Loads, and those idiots).
It is hard for them to be interested in reality, because they never invested anything of themselves into it!
Has anyone here worked along a rich, insulated, conservative in a soup kitchen?. .I have not!
The one they rode was safe; they’re reasonably familiar with the Metro & Wash DC. That said, they were quite proud that the rode the Metro; saved a few bucks & hassle; etc. But no sense of the tax funding of said metro.
I figure it’s just not worth it to get into that conversation. My sister is temp in a wheelchair (recovering from badly broken foot). Hubby made a sign with a photo of my Uncle who died in WWII. Sibling wheeled around the Mall with my long-deceased WWII vet Uncle on her lap. Go figure! Apparently “everyone was thrilled” with Uncle. Again: go figure.
RR, indeed. What a ‘quaint’ idea.
found it.. was glen beck (warning link goes to his site)
or how they live,ive been an observer
Welch’s grape, please. But only after the toast is thoroughly soaped with butter first.
Joseph Campbell
Interestingly my sibling has done some types of “good works” via her church and HAS served in soup kitchens at least a few times. Plus she has done work with prisoners, amazingly.
So, she has had that exposure. Given that, one might think she’d have some compassion, but indeed not. Prospertity Xtianity has rotted her brain, methinks. She is very selfish and self-absorbed, despite brief forays into helping the poor.
Seems like family circumstances & history excuses cognitive dissonance. Still…
uhm, i believe you,wont hit it
Funny, I grew up in a farm community in Illinois, most of the people worked at Caterpillar but there were enough farmers around to know that few family farmers make enough to pay high end income taxes. Property taxes hit them the hardest, so for example all the members of the school board in my district were farmers even though they were only 25% or so of the population. They would never try to raise taxes, and our school was so bad that the state forced it to close five years after I graduated.
i adored him,need to reread
All good verses, but all from the Gospels. I was raised mostly on the “Good News” of the Gospels. But all the churches I knew growing up have been infested by Doug Coe’s C Street “Family” syndicate. Those churches mainly focus on the Old Testament + Revelations. The Gospels are almost completely ignored except when they simply cannot be, like Xmas and Easter.
Really: it’s all retribution all the time these days, and hippy Jesus need not be mentioned.
Bleccch has been on that kick for a while now. Social/economic justice is just a code phrase for communism, dontcha know.
Golden Rule, is that the one that says do unto others before they do it to you? I think the GOP still follows it.
I have sometimes heard some folks in farm country make this lament. On th other hand I have heard people involved in agri-business point out too that any serious farmer has done estate planning precisely to address these issues and that if any of them got caught by estate taxes they weren’t very bright or professional.
Thers Abides.
Nice.
Fuck the fucking decorum, btw.
Let it loose, hoss.
God Hates Shrimp, Cheezeburgers, Lobster, and DIVORCE, too!
Now that’s something I can’t wrap my mind around. Does she think that becuz she does a couple of good works from time-to-time, her good works quotient has been fulfilled and thus she is free to focus on herself?
OTOH, I have a niece-in-law who is intellectually progressive but OCD about herself. So perhaps your sib is like my niece?
Some folks do have an incredible ‘teflonish’ demeanor…even when they are exposed to some pretty horrid scenes and poverty that kills…but then if you are driven to think that the poor serf deserves it, then so be it…all has been accomplished by providence!
It’s all weird, imo. I was being nice to her. Her daughter warned her that she’s in a cult and to be careful about who she chooses for teachers. My neice is correct. It is cult. Beck is very weird. And why roam around with photos of WWII vets? Makes no sense to me. I gave up a long time ago trying to figure it out.
I dunno. I go to church and fed some hungry people today.
Only because the Rabbi Yeshua was a commie.
howdy,i said ..around here!
Also polyblend (it is an abomination!).
speaking of WACKY Xtians,or whatever
anybody read this?
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/10/sarah-palin-201010
Well, exactly. It’s just a ruse used by RushGlenn to fool credulous people like my mother. That generation often came from family farming stock. My mother grew up spending a lot of time on relatives’ farms. But they mostly stopped farming bc no one wanted to do it anymore. It’s really hard work! Plus after WWII, there were loads of other opportunities.
My mom led a sheltered life where she maintained a lot of outdated, romantic notions about farming that had little to do with reality. ReThugs knew that and used it. It worked! And not just for my mom.
It’s my observation that most of these conservatives/Tea Partiers live in a fantasy world that has little to do with reality.
Oh yeah, shhhhurrrrrrre.
But Can Ya Do THIS!
As George Eliot said:
I understand what you’re saying. When it comes to God, some would say it’s easier to believe in God and then reject science.
Others would say they understand science and still hold a belief in God.
The easy way out is to embrace a smug disbelief, risking nothing, today.
Yeah, well, it should be.
Fox Fair N Balanced n all that ya know.
‘You betcha, wink,wink’…is in a class all her own!
On a serious note, my country house is in apple orchard country, 85 miles from Manhattan. You can imagine that the orchard owners’ land is their only asset. If you don’t lower their property taxes, they can’t afford to stay in biz, and even if you do, the next generation does not want the work of running a money-losing orchard when they could sell the land for development. If they sell the land for development, prop taxes on everyone else goes up owing to road maintenance & schools. It’s a difficult situation to find a solution to if you want to maintain the open space.
The Bible doesn’t believe in Democracy — is that what these wingnuts are getting at? Because it sure does explain a lot.
its media enhanced….they watch way too much idiot box
How about the agricultural assessments?
This reminds me of a sign I saw from a pic of the Beck rally, “God only requires 10%” or something. As though taxes are charity. As though most of tax revenue goes to the poor. Please. It’s just crazy. Jesus hung out with essentially the street people. He wasn’t a Republican.
I see we are all maintaining the idea that this is Stossel and not Medved.
Well played.
What did I screw up? Sorry.
Time for me to toddle off. Those fresh young minds won’t corrupt themselves. Take care all.
The only way I’ve ever observed science & religion to be combined in the same individual is compartmentalization.
and to eCHAN at 88:
I dunno how my sister “explains” things to herself. It’s a bafflement. Mostly I don’t talk to her about it much bc it’s hard to communicate with super religious types like her. Plus my sibling has anger mgmt issues big-time, and one has to tread carefully around her or be prepared to be blasted. She can be venomous in the extreme. Clearly, she has some really huge problems, and I think she is mentally ill in some way.
So how she rectifies working with poor and then having her viewpoints is beyond my comprehension. But perhaps her unbalanced nature gives a hint that she’s not really grounded. Clearly, she’s “looking for” something if she can be so obsessed with the likes of Sarah Palin & Glenn Beck.
I would find it sad (and do have compassion for her) if the whole shebang weren’t – in the Tea Party aggragate – so damn destructive to our society as a whole.
g’nite dr dick
Oh yes, very true that. My sibling, in particular, is either listening to RushGlenn on the radio or watching Fox – it’s almost 24/7. My mom was the same when alive. It’s really done a number on their heads. Pretty scary, in fact.
There’s some of those available but they cost money, and there isn’t a lot of that around, plus they don’t seem to offer anywhere near the development value of the property.
eye opener
Long, long ago, when people couldn’t explain shit, they made up something and attributed it to that something.
Multi god civilizations, and such (wade in any time Doc Dick).
Mostly the people making this shit up and giving it a label or name looked to gain tribal control.
Inspire fear, invoke devotion to deity that only the shaman could speak with/to/for.
Deity and religion has been smoke and fucking mirrored con jobs since the first time man beat on a hollow log into the dark.
Well, there is this. I told you the other day that I was going to look into this stuff.
Don’t get stuck in “words”.
Jesus is too soft and hippiesh for them…after all he spoke of love and forgiveness…these cats want a brimstone and sulphur belching bone crusher God who kicks ass and takes no prisoners…ya know like ‘shock and awe!’
You new school punker, you!
*G*
My relatives came from orchard country in western New York. A lot of that country has gone wild because only a few farms and corps can manage the taxes and expenses. And when I say wild, I mean farm land first goes to scrub then fast growing trees and then eventualy the harder woods that were originally there.
I know. Seen similar signs. What a load of rubbish. The 10% refers to tithing, which is quite different from taxes. But Beck was rabbiting on about tithing in his talk. It’s all mind control and nonsense.
I don’t. I’ve heard in various contexts that Jewish law never places unborn above born, and Jesus was quite clear about leaving others to their god-given free will. He was also pro-women’s rights, and I don’t think he’d try to deny them access to safe, legal procedures.
I see the line you draw as to acceptability, do you think others with different convictions should be bound by your position? Your comment about the left’s ‘support’ would seem to equate pro-choice with pro-abortion. They are not the same thing.
Cat’s kung fu is strong.
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/09/01/funny-pictures-gif-kitten-roll/
Hear you.
My niece is different in the sense that her OCD does not overpower her intellect. So I feel free to confront her from time to time (but not too often) with intellectual arguments that point out her inconsistencies. If I press too hard, she shuts me out for awhile, but then comes back later. Works ofr me, but not sure how she experiences it.
Bless Bruce Phillips.
read the Sara article in VF…she has uncontrollabe rage also
When I went to the bank today, to deposit a check and pull out a twenty, I was walking back to my car when a guy asked if I wanted to buy some cantalopes. He said 1 for 3 dollars, or 2 for 5. I said, okay, just one though, ’cause,….blah. And, he said okay, for you (really? me?) 2 for 4. So I bought 2 and then gave one to a young mother with four, count them, kids under looked like about 8 or 9. Por los ninos, I told her. That’s all the Spanish I know.
Actually, there a new book out by a Dutch cardiologist with some actual evidence about near death experiences….”
http://www.pimvanlommel.nl/?home_eng
Compassion, understanding and love are great salves to the wounded heart and mind…and she is family which carries it’s own weight and responsibilities…I sincerely hope something reaches her that is transformational…and I sure as hell don’t think Beck is the answer!
nite Dr.Dick
Thanks for the correction. Medved is worse. I was looking for a copy of John Galbraith’s The Great Crash 1929 at the library and saw some book by Medved on the same shelf. I had a WTF moment thinking that Medved could be on the same shelf as anyone serious.
I quite agree. Some Tea Partiers are upper middle class, but most of them are quite clueless about the stranglehold that the upper 3% have on our country and how the lack of real progressive taxation – plus lack of fairer capital gains taxes – has really messed up this country.
China is getting way ahead of us. I don’t know if you saw that video on an early morning post today – video of interviews at the Beck rally. One person, at least, acknowledged how China is getting ahead of us, but was clueless why… mainly wanted to rant about how we need to “get back to the past.”
So frustrating: yes! We DO need to get back to the past… where the d*** rich were taxed accordingly, like during Eisenhower’s time. Sheesh.
That is soo not me. Not sayin’ it’s not valuable, just sayin’ it doesn’t speak to anything that would influence the way I look at the world. But if peeps who look at the world that way found a way of influencing policy, you can bet I’d learn about it.
Well done.
Yes, she strikes me that way, and I do think it’s part of the reason why my sister worships her. Very sad, though.
I hear ya bro, but certain addictions are mofos!
No sh**! I agree. I do love my sister even tho she infuriates me. But I give her credit that she still loves me too, bc in many ways I stand for everything that she is “against.” So there is that.
I don’t know I was always told that near death experiences often resembled temporal lobe pre-seizure states.
Off to sleepy time. Night all the pups! Thanks for thoughtful “conversation.” Hope we can find solutions some fine day. Amen!
.
g’nite onit
she is completely WACKADOODLE and selfish to boot,worst tipper evah!
How are their personalities changed? What do they do differently or how do they see the world differently?
So is chocolate an addiction or a reasonable response to an otherwise indifferent universe?
See my #116. Noetic Science is checking that out too.
nite,nite…my pillow calls too
I don’t feel like looking up the stats, but supposedly polls show TBers are of above-average education and wealth. I think they lie to pollsters.
OK. Fine, fuck Medved, too, and the donkey he holed in on.
*G*
Hey, can you get me a job in media in Sacto?
*G*
That way, I could take your calls and further your causes!
Win/Win!
g’nite sadly
M’kay. Whatevah. Just sharing.
Geez, that kind of boxes me in.
*G*
Who always told you that?
and that is good and hopefully something that resists being diminished…
The real hook for Christianity is everlasting life on streets of gold near the throne of Jesus — it’s hard to turn that one down.
The alternative? Like the guy laid out in his finest in a coffin, all dressed up and no place to go.
Death, an absolute end to life, and not an integral and necessary part of life, is a giant negative concern to Americans which the church has recognized and used, to make eternal life a main selling point for their product. It works.
I have a sister who is extremely conservative. She’s in her ’60s now. For her entire life she has been plagued by insecurity, groundless fears, and petty resentments. She wasn’t always political but when the right-wing media juggernaut became mainstream in the late ’80s it snared her. Their entire playbook being based on fear, it is not surprising that resonated with her.
Hahahaha. Educated types can spell a lot better than the ‘baggers. There is just no way…
That actually sounds pretty kewl, aside from the ruined farmers part.
Oh, for the love of God. The Bible describes rules for a slavery-based, agriculture-based economy that predates the nation-state and capitalism. Libertarians, by definition, should not look to it for guidance.
well true…if you mean in a way that reflects: within you and without you!
Stupid airports.
and expensive and rude…is all ok?
thers!!!
I have two sisters. One is an intelligent, thoughtful progressive and the other is a blind idiot. Go figure. There’s all kinds of sisters out there.
Yeah. Hubby is Christian, but he’s pretty much given up on religion. The big silly thinks they should know you by your deeds, not your fat holier-than-thou piehole.
No problem. Just pointing out how diff peeps look at the world differently, and in particular, what tipping point it takes me, as a specific example, to try to see the world from the other person POV.
Bueno.
Es verdad su practica.
Or something like that.
Well done, ma’am. I give out bottles of water to all I see at the stoplights.
Keep a dozen or so in the front seat of my car when driving around for any reason.
In Spring thru Fall around here, I always get smiles, and thanks.
And I know they need it. Just a simple bottle of water, they can also sneak in somewhere and refill.
Cuz, they don’t keep good track of their own bottles, only the empty one’s they dive for and sell at the local recycler depot.
Sigh. Too many needy. Nothing like before in MY life, but I read about worse from Studs Terkel, heard about it from Utah Phillips, Woody, and others.
Too many needy today, just like the 30′s.
Dude, I’m NOT talking about the first fermenteds!!
*G*
I don’t understand why that should be so. Might as well use religion and math.
I was at an xmas gift sort with my (ex) billionaire CEO and his family. They stayed Very Separate from the others; when I tried to engage one of his sons in conversation he all but hid behind his dad, like I was going to grab him or something.
Shew-a. You know me. I’m a whatever you decide for you kinda gal.
Hoss, all addictions are reasonable responses to an indifferent universe.
That indifference, it’s like the Catch 22.
Yer screwed, one way or the other.
;-)
Have I thanked ya lately for all yer work? Thanks.
*G*
Nice thing (not really) about the Bible is that it so ambiguous and contradictory that people can find some part to rationalize any course of behavior upon which the desire to embark, or excuse any past behavior.
I once had an evangelical type spend several minutes informing me of the murderous nature of the Qur’an. I finally interrupted and told him not to worry, that like the Bible people read the parts they like and ignore the rest. I imagine he is still sputtering somewhere.
Well, I’ve thought about it some, but am by no means an expert. Was heavily influenced by a session on the subject at a Renaissance Weekend, where that seemed to be the rule. Also have talked to several people who are both scientists & religious, but also have more friends who are scientists but not religious.
But if you have a diff POV, would love to hear it. All my observations are anecdotal, none dispositive.
You can’t take it with you.
And if ya try to, the funeral home or someone will dig it up and take it anyways.
Why not give it away BEFORE ya die?
Prolly so she can say what a great charitable Christian she is. Bonus – she Has Spoken To Poor People, and can now tell you how they think on any subject.
Physicians, neurologists.
Theirs goes, “He that has the gold, makes the rules.”
Well, considering that the current bible is a bunch of stories told for a long time, and we all know how stories shift and change, and then was translated a whole bunch of times and then edited by a bunch of guys, and you know how that usually works, it’s amazing that there are still hints of how to behave better left at all.
That pretty much encapsulates my philosophy.
I wuz makin wordplay.
I’m pretty much agnostic and that other thing when people don’t believe in god, her OR him.
*G*
Wow. You hang with the cool ones. I have no problem with what they’ve told you, but…there’s always more. Ya know?
LMBO!
*G*
I don’t know what you were told or who told you that.
I know this Dutch cardiologist and his team did their research in Dutch medical centers and submitted the paper for peer review in Lancet. Published in Lancet in 2001. I know the scientific world won’t care “what you were told” if it didn’t get submitted for peer review and published.
You know how I’m struggling to understand the Islamic POV and why. Only so many other POVs that one can struggle to understand in one lifetime. *g*
There’s your problem, you’re talking to pseudo-scientists. “g”
Funny how religion is all about faith but people who subscribe to it quickly seize on any pseudo-science that claims to validate their beliefs. Intelligent design, anyone?
No, the easy way is to give up your free will in exchange for being told what to think (because you don’t need to know how). I’ve lost count of the ‘good Christians’ I’ve met who came right out and said they’re covering their bases – they think they’re in good with God, and if there isn’t one, then no harm no foul.
How about the Bible Code?
(((blasphemer))) It’s all literally true, just as Yahweh dictated it to King James.
Just kidding hon, glad you see it in the appropriate historical context.
Matt:
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitudes and to his disciples,
2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
4 Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.
5 But all their works they do to be seen of men…
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides,
Jehovah points to his own name in the Torah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBBqjMgPmYo
Though I prefer a V for the Vav in YHVH.
Yes, I know. And, it’s a big, big world, ain’t it? I hear you, sister.
Has sold a lot of books. Ain’t Capitalism Divine?
Would you be open to considering that there are folks who don’t fit into your pre-formed opinion of certain types? You can generalize if that works for you, but there are people who are thoughtful, considerate people. Seriously.
Umm, Frank Lloyd Wright, Alex, for $1000?
*G*
Chirps, BTW.
Shreds, too.
Aren’t you generalizing? :)
The Other Divine
I’ve done a fair amount of research and studying. And, I’m not alone.
I understand that. But all people aren’t motivated by that fear at all times. To raise a particular counterexample, western Europe is much closer to Islamic lands than are Americans, yet seem to be a lot less paranoid than Americans by the ‘threat’ that Islam poses. (Not saying that Muslims are treated equally in western Europe, only saying that the level of paranoia seems much less.) So my Q, not very well articulated this evening, is why Americans react so much more extremely. Or put differently, and perhaps too simply, why PTB, whether religious or political, are able to gin up so much fear here. Death is universal.
Demi, why would you contest Rat on this?
He’s as much like you and me and Pups as any.
I don’t get why you contested him.
?
Generally speaking, sometimes. Ha!
Must. Get. Horizontal.
Later, peeps.
Ratty, give that beak a peck from me, wouldja?
g’nite demi
It was merely a question. I’m pretty sure we’ll cool. Ratty gets me, pretty much. As much, if not more than most here. :)
Well played. Wright designed structures that had great aesthetic appeal but often at the expense of more practical concerns. Example, I’ve never encountered a flat-roof structure in the Midwest that doesn’t develop leaks. Only works in dry climates with comparatively narrow temperature range.
Bob says “Howdy.”
Hey amiga
Nothing like topping off a crazy day like waiting for a plane that is eternally 15 minutes late.
From New Scientist about on Van Lommel’s Lancet article
John Lennon wasn’t too far off the mark when he sang, “Whatever gets you through the night ‘salright, ‘salright.”
I love that! ‘salright.
G’night Suz and everyone else. Got the yawnies here.
This discussion reminde me for some reason of the end of Wallace Stevens’ poem Sunday Morning:
Only pointing out that you used a generalization to criticize me for allegedly generalizing. :)
Don’t take anything personally. I have no problem with your beliefs, whatever they might be. You’re a good person who acts in good ways, which is all that matters to me.
Peace be upon you, demi.
Hee hee. I was worried that might be a bit too “inside baseball,” or in this case, too “inside stupid mustache.”
My emphasis. Now that is really interesting. Again, anecdotally, empathy seems one of the ways humans are divided. So very interesting that near-death experiences seem to increase empathetic.
Thanks.
On edit: Ooops. Meant to bold empathy.
Oh, big huggy arms around you. MMMMMMMMMMMM.
PS….bzzzzzz.
Geebuz, eCAHN . . .
This country is owned and operated by the richest and meanest fuckers in the universe.
I’ll grant, that is likely the case in most countries, but THIS one tends to overshadow them all, aside from Russia and China.
And frankly, I don’t think the meanest rich fuckers in the universe are really country oriented, but actually wage their power and control over ALL countries.
Given that, and that we are in a class war nationally and internationally . . . why WOULDN’T americans, under educated, a middle class dying, a public school system dying, theological slants of all kinds emerging to claim turf (backed by the likes of the Koch Brothers, Vandebergs, Rockefellers, etc.), why WOULDN’T these people, grouped under one BIG ASS COUNTRY by imposed borders.
Why wouldn’t it be easy for a lot of folks to be fear based, and crazy modeled about Islam?
And I’ll be the first to say, my response to your comment is not all that well formulated, too.
Lemme try this for a better answer.
The rich fucks control it all, and are more easily able to influence the stupid fucks.
And USA is different that way, than Europe and elsewhere.
We are more concentrated under large borders, and the media control and the propaganda reach MORE people per square mile.
Ergo, more people are more easily moved to fear.
Make any sense? I’m woikin on it . . .
*G*
Ok!
Sorry I jumped in . . .
Do love this town and it’s inhabitants, one and all for the most part.
You and Rat, for sure.
*G*
Chirps to ya both then.
*G*
Time to tuck Bob in. Sweet dreams to all.
LaRue! You gets a big hug, too! I do loves a supportive friend, and that was kind of you. S’cool.
zzzzzzzzzzz
Heh, OG, wassup man.
“God Is A Constant, By Which We Meaure, Our Pain.”
Lennon.
Too slick for me, but it’s a good tweak at God, and the reason for her existence, too.
*G*
Lennon was good at that. Snarkin at shit.
*G*
European media is more diverse.
American broadcast TV has essentially stopped challenging any story the military-industrial complex wants told.
They’re not paranoid. They’re sheep. They’re yelling at whoever they’re told to yell at that day. They all yell because it’s made to look like “everyone else” is yelling.
And then there was peace in the village, and the villagers took their leave with their grapes, for the night.
*G*
Dood, not to get nit-picky (but doing so anyway), the song goes, “God is a concept-” not “constant.”
Plastic Ono Band is prolly my favorite post-Beatles former Beatle album. There’s a great DVD about it from the Classic Albums series.
Back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.
Splendid evenin’ to ya.
The first two lines of Sunday Morning opened the doors to a poem as beautifully as any I have ever experienced.
Complacencies of the peignoir, and late
Coffee and oranges in a sunny chair
Thanks. What I was trying to get someone to type. (I have a hidden agenda, too, ya know.)
I agree completely. I would add that end-of-empire phenomenon, which typically involve screwing the ‘small’ person to the benefit of the big guy, is one simplistic way of looking at how easy it is to use fear here vs. other places around the globe, which are not decaying empires.
Not sure exactly why that would be. For example, you might hypothesize that end-of-empire would install more fear in the big guys than the small guys, since the former have so much more to lose. Or that fear is contagious (not kidding) and that, though the big guy has more to lose, the small guy is so much closer to subsistence, the fear factor is more powerful on the small guy.
Just throwing out thoughts & reading reactions.
Meanwhile a gorgeous bronze moth just landed on my computer screen.
NO! Yer killin me!
Really!!
Shit.
I like constant better.
Lennon got THAT one all fuckin Wrong!
*G*
But that only peels the onion back one more layer without answering the Q. Why are European media more diverse?
I think you, me, Hugh and many many puppers are in accordance with a lot of these ideas and posits.
I delight in sharing them and learning from other puppers, as we dissect them all.
Around here, moths brang worms to my ‘maters and basil.
I. Don’t. Like. Moths.
*G*
;-)
N let me say clearly, I dearly delight in your musings, posits and thoughts daily.
Thanks for all you share, I read them all.
The entire song is based on questioning the actual importance of highly regarded beliefs. He ultimately concludes that the only thing really important is “Yoko and me, that’s reality.”
Referring to God as a constant would have totally changed the meaning.
They’re not.
*G*
I do not have a vegie garden, only an herb garden. Read once that herbs are weeds, which ‘splains my success. So I can appreciate the moths for ‘who they are’ rather than ‘what they do.’ *g*
Yep, and that’s my point!
God is a constant.
God is a concept.
Which hurts worse in love?
Which is INTENDED to hurt more, in love?
*G*
Because, except for Italy, they’re not so concentrated at the top? And some of them still support their ‘public’ broadcasters?
I’ll eat yer left over veggies, if ya have any.
*G*
If I had any left over herbs, I’d send ‘em to ya, too.
But, I never will.
I use ‘em and give some away local, to provacate neighbors to start growing shit, too.
I’m kinda sneaky like that. Apartment living provides the opportunity to influence others!
*G*
Ok, I gotta check in upstairs at LLN, and then, hit the Sand Man muhself soon.
Bless all you Pups I don’t always get to chat with, and thank for your thoughts.
Allaz ya be well!
Saying God is a constant is to suggest that God is an absolute truth. Lots of people might agree with that statement but Lennon wasn’t one of them. The song was about tearing down myths and he placed God at the top of the list.
Alright, really checking out now. Down the road, man. “g”
It’s far too late for me to be articulate on this matter, so I’ll refer to Europe’s Promise, which I recently read and whose author appeared on Book Salon. Can’t quite reconstruct Hill’s argument right now, but has to do with (as you point out, with the exception of Italy) support for diverse print media, better education. I would add, oceans separating U.S. from other cultures have not redounded to the benefit of the U.S. in its role as global hegemon.
Going up to LL.
Death is universal, but Christianity, and its historical antipathy to Muslims going back to the Crusades, is very much stronger in the USA than in Europe.
By the way, the Rapture Index is now at 172, near its all-time high.
http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html
Luckily, just because John Lennon wrote the song doesn’t mean he gets to decide what it “really means”.
Every time you pay attention to these third rate rw idiots you just give them more “street cred” and notoriety. Stossels an idiot who has a microscopic following of uninformed elderly folks who the networks foist him upon and the far right.
I think ignoring this would be insane. I kinda think that even SUGGESTING it should be ignored is, well, suspect.
Keep up with the twisted new religion that says Christians should be as loyal and obedient as the Nazis were, as robotically, fanatically ready to cut off their own mothers’ heads on command as were the young’uns of the Chinese Cultural Revolution.
This dangerous sub-world not being talked about enough has everyone forgetting about it, including me–I can’t even summon up the name of the “reverend” who preaches this evil. (It wasn’t just Rick Warren. It was the leader of The Family.) But he’s known to Obama, who thanked him in a speech for the influence he’s had on his life. Hillary likes him, too.
Thers, thank you for posting this on Stossel. It needs much more attention.
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=120746516
You go, onitoges, that’s some righteous ranting. And thanks, Thers, we need much more of this kind of myth-busting.
Anybody still wondering why I’m always on about the power of carefully crafted narratives to jack electorates to hell and back?
Since Stossel is going all OT on our asses, I think it appropriate to remind my fellow fierce firedogs of some crucial facts about myths, especially this recent malicious use of Old Testament myths to jack single voting blocs, or whole nations, to hell and back. (The following also is available as a diary titled, What Are We? Kin, Baby, Kin!)
I think this alarming discovery, that the myths intended to harmonize humanity and nature have been perverted into a mythology of a war-god who conquers Mother Nature, is at the root of much of what ails us today.
Why are we effed in the head? Why do we make war on everything under the sun–and even under the sea? It’s the mythology!
The only way for these believers to get to their heaven is by standing in the proper relationship to the proper authorities of the proper dogma as preached by the proper church. That’s why closeted Republicans end up in denial of mythic proportions about their own true nature.
God is imaged as a man, the biggest baddest man in the universe. To be god-like is to be man-like, and vice versa. Yes, astute readers: I’m saying, it’s a dick thing. Dicking with Mother Nature is the very epitome of the good life, to these believers in half a cosmos.
Campbell continues:
Our mythologies have been historicized (and falsely at that, chiefly by misreading poetry as prose; though both may be true, myths and news are not the same kind of truth, right?); the earth, murdered and mechanized; and us along with them. That’s why I say, reclaiming our unalienable humanity is the first step to humanizing our affairs.
We’re not the toy soldiers of someone else’s god. We’re not slaves on their plantations. We’re not mere automata, either, not just voting machines on two legs. What are we?
Kin, baby, kin!
Does Stossel know Jesus and the Apostles were communists? Most wingers don’t.
The Bible states very clearly that Jesus and the Apostles shared all belongings, with no one keeping anything for himself. They were communists.
Springtime for Gun Guys
Why should the Democratic party act like Liberals? I mean, it’s not like there’s more than one or two liberals in the whole of the party’s elected officials…..
What does John Stossel have to do with the article quoted in this diary? The author is Michael Medved. Granted, Medved may be a right-wing apologist even further removed from reality than Stossel, but nowhere is Stossel even referenced in Medved’s convoluted interpretation of what political philosophy God would favor.
I never trust anyone whose interpretation of “what God wants” rests entirely on the Old Testament anyway, especially when the bulk of their argument consists of quoting Leviticus.
Not only does this writer reference the wrong author (Stossel as against Medved), but the article never mentions Ayn Rand at all. She was an atheist, not a conservative, and creator of a new philosophy which her detractors invariably fail to properly describe. Even many enthusiasts, like Stossel, don’t do her justice. I recommend reading her 1957 book “Atlas Shrugged” which sold over 500,000 copies last year to see what all the fuss is about.
I say this with full humility as an atheist:
Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.
The guy LOOKS like Stossel and sounds like him, but yeah…not him.
Mentioning Ayn Rand is fine. That was this authors’ interpretation. Citing Stossel was incorrect.
Dude, you got greenlit on Fark. Congratulations!