Thanks for sharing this with us, Wes. This corporate censorship by what is supposed to be a social media platform — not a political entity — is far too fuzzy in its operation to be rational if not pointedly political.

Marijuana makes for strange bedfellows.

Anti-war too. Pro-civil liberties. Economics, not so much.

This illustrates the problem of hierarchical web sites that purportedly provide a public purpose. Don’t want to step on too many toes, but FDL has some similar issues. I know anarchy is generally feared, but censorship is worse.

Welcome to Firedoglake, Wes Benedict

Figuratively and literally if the stereotypes are to be believed.

LOL – the Libertarian Party is wholly owned and funded by the Koch brothers, the folks that each inherited several billion from Dad (they are both in the top 20 wealthiest list) – and both continue their dad’s war on all things liberal or progressive – they set up and gave talking points, along with Fox, to the initial Dick Army “Freedom” attack on health reform via scripted “Tea Party Folks” (the interesting thing is the actual people that read the script actually believed the things they were saying. Koch has been trying to tear down Social Security for decades, and funded the legalizing marijuana idea based on their no government ideas. Their idea of gov functions is courts and police to protect “rights” and an army to protect their assets. Nothing else.

The idea that FDL is now in bed with Koch over legalizing marijuana proves the old “politics makes strange bedfellows” adage.

But it brought a smile to my face this morning – and we all need more smiles!

Meanwhile I support legalizing marijuana on logic grounds – 75% of our prison/court/police dollars is wasted on potheads and the system effectively took one of the most law abiding segments of our Society back in the 50′s and gave a large portion of them prison records (black males). The war on drugs is racist and costly – and illogical except for the really harmful stuff like meth and prescription equivalents. Makes the EU seem so interesting as a place to retire to.

But I refuse to agree that libertarians/Koch brothers are using logic – they just want no government! :-)

Koch brothers – and Dad – have fun with “libertarians” – and as a clock is right twice a day, they are on the right side of an issue every now and then.

FACE fuckbook.

I think you’re confusing the Tea Party with the Libertarian Party.

give me liberty or at least free parking. new yorker’s kock bros. piece is must read.

No confusion – they are different

Except they are both funded by the Koch brothers.

Army’s funding for the Tea Party – and Fox’s PR – and funding for all the variations of Tea Party – has come in large part from the KOCH brothers – especially the start up money and the provision of organizers and talking points and scheduling of protests and transport and site hire. Army has been a flow through for the Koch money.

The Koch dad – Fred – was a major source of funding for libertarian and conservative political causes in the United States, including think tanks such as the Cato Institute. Fred Koch co-founded the John Birch Society.

In the mid-1970s the Kochs started to fund a network of libertarian organizations including the United States Libertarian Party, for which David ran as the vice presidential nominee in 1980. Between 1997 and 2008, Koch Industries donated a total of nearly $48 million to climate opposition groups. Koch Industries founded Americans for Prosperity, formed as a successor to Citizens for a Sound Economy. They are known as major contributers to the Tea Party movement. Rich Fink, a Koch executive vice president, is a member of the board of directors of Americans for Prosperity. Previously he served as president of Citizens for a Sound Economy. Rich Fink also founded the Mercatus Center.

Koch brothers no longer try to run the Libertarian Party – indeed they fell out of bed back in 83 – but they have stayed in the same room with Koch still sending funds albeit via the back door.

David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: Marine Commandant Conway: Stay in Afghanistan, Keep Gay Soldiers in Separate Sleeping Quarters

I agree – the NEW YORKER knocks it out of the park with their piece on the Koch brothers.

This is pure tribalism — ignore the issue at hand rather than judge it on its own merits. I agree 100% with what Mr. Benedict is saying on this particular topic, and whether I agree with him about anything else is irrelevant.

We faced that kind of triblism a lot during the Bush years coming from the GOP. Propaganda’s first tactic is to discredit the person making the claim rather than deal with the validity of the claim, as a way to dismiss and discredit it.

It shuts down discussion and sends people scurrying into their “tribes,” where they are manipulated by leaders who are easily bribed with both money and power.

I always hate to see it on FDL because we like to deal in issues on the merits rather than emotional pulls to personalities or tribalistic identity, but we do value free speech too, so you’re welcome to speak your peace.

I’ll repeat my 10; I think you are confusing Tea Party with the Libertarian Party. And it is customary at FDL to link to articles you refer to. Correct spelling of Koch would help clarify your message, assuming that’s who you are referring to.

We do however have some rules about staying on topic, and you passed the limit some time ago.

Thanks to Jane @15 for clarification of FDL positions.

Elder Koch was one of founders of the John Birch Society. The Kochs founded and fund the Cato Institute and other less known think tanks as well as funding and providing logistical support for the Tea Party. They are really anarchists but certainly the Libertarian Party would not exist without them.

Personally I am more than uncomfortable with making any common effort with them. Their reasons for legalizing marijuana are really immoral with no care for public health.

Agree.

Antiwar also. There is no antiwar movement (happens to be the case right now) unless the left & right combine to make one. Scott Horton, a rabid Libertarian, does the best anti-wars interviews on antiwar.com, and prolly 3/4 of his guests are lefties.

Did you catch the bit above about “off topic?”

The subject is Facebook ads. We know you love prohibition and advocate for it endlessly. But please be respectful of the posters and at least try to keep ad-hominums to a minimum and address the topic at hand.

I don’t think people remember what politics, and public policy, were like before this awful tribalism infected our discourse. Used to be, if there was an issue on the table, you found who supported it, banded together, made alliances, influenced legislators to support your issue — and got laws passed.

Nowadays, though, it’s as if every ally must meet a purity, or ideological litmus, test in order to qualify. On every issue, along with every backer, throughout all of everyone’s history: congruity is required.

This is, incidentally, an invention of elites who keep the people carefully segregated from one another on most issues by requiring they agree on everything before they agree on anything.

I’m not a Libertarian. And I don’t have much use for their over-riding philosophy. But JustSayNow and the Libertarian both share a single attribute right now — BANNED ON FACEBOOK — which is the point of this post and the point of intersection.

Thank you for writing this post, sir, and for sharing your organization’s Facebook advertising experience with us. Please let us know what we can do to help you — and JustSayNow — get our ads back on the Zuckerberg platform.

As a resident of Oakland and a student at Oaksterdam Cannabis University, I can say that the Tea Party is supporting the legalization and taxation of cannabis.

Strange bedfellows indeed, but Feinstein wants me in prison and Boxer and Brown are both opposed to legalization and taxation. It has come down to the very personal, nevermind local!

Thanks.Jane. Sorry to have strayed off topic in responding to some of the posting.

I think Facebook, which I never go to, does have a legitimate perspective. And at least they are consistent.

( No I do not love or even favor “prohibition.” I favor legalization for the reasons I have stated. But I also favor advocacy.on the basis of reason. To present it as safe belies the evidence. Just as ads promoting alcohol and tobacco on the basis of safety would belie the evidence and is I believe illegal).

A better characterization of FB’s perspective would be a defensible, and not legitimate. I really don’t have a personal opinion as to whether they should censor it or not.

Because we join a tribe based on a common interest on a single issue does not mean we need to go the French parliamentarian route for elections and support the same candidate so as to get enough mass for one of us to win a vote in parliament.

I appreciate the common interest idea – and support it. But I also watch my step lest the “government is evil and must be minimized” folks start thinking they are converting the “government can do good” folks.

I guess Aristotle’s (and Hesiod, Euripides, Plato, Chaucer, etc) “moderation in all things” is all that I am saying – that and “be careful with anything that has Koch brothers money” :-)

Sorry – Koch seemed on topic – but you are correct

The topic was Facebook censorship – and I drifted.

Again, sorry.

Being old, I gave up long ago on conjecture about anyone’s reasons for doing anything. It’s totally useless. Legalization and taxation of cannabis is a cause that unites many different types.
Banned on Facebook unites Just Say Now and the Libertarian Party. The implications bring common interests into consideration.

Facebook employs variants of Zero Tolerance. How did ZT ever get so ubiquitous? How does it even deserve to exist?

Well, what I hate to see here at FDL is all the bowing and scraping and mea culpas to Jane. Sheesh. You’re welcome to say your piece, but don’t stray even a tiny bit or you’ll get smacked down. I read here A LOT and I’ve seen innumerable “off-topic” posts that no one takes exception to.

I know….I’m off-topic. So shoot me.

I hope no one has imagined I am conjecturing on personal motivations. I have hoped to make suggestions that would be useful in developing strategy to gain passage of a legalization bill and serve the interests of the public.

When this issue surfaced yesterday, I replaced my avatar with one of my own creation using an image from google images with the “Just Say Now” slogan super imposed.

I got one innocuous comment on the picture itself and a lot of blowback from my wife. She is afraid that my kid’s friends might see it and presume that I am advocating pot-smoking. I told her that I am protesting censorship of political speech and will gladly discuss that with anyone who asks.

I told her that I am protesting censorship of political speech and will gladly discuss that with anyone who asks

Is that how the kids will understand it?

First, my kids understand it and can explain it to their friends.

The question becomes how much attention are kids paying to the news. As reported elsewhere on FDL, this story has made it to MSM and if kids are aware of the story, they might get it. Obviously some will not.