Accountabiltiy is getting a working over in the previous post. It is not in the Republican vocabulary.

masaccio! pat tillman’s dad speaks for me too

In sum: Fuck you … and yours.

I am looking forward to seeing the movie on Tillman that is coming out.

The coverup of the circumstances of Tillman’s death must be one of the more minor of all the Pentagon’s sins. Is significant only to the extent to which the Pentagon is successful in hiding everything bad they do.

Is Pat Tillman’s dad part of the professional left?

I despise war and it’s horrors, but the Nation needs to put their hands on their chest and cry out for Pat Tillman and his dad, and all those who are dishonored by the cowards who send our children to their wars to do their dirty work, and then hide and cower when they are asked for the truth about someone’s precious son or daughters lost life…

Fuck them is too generous…we need something more potent that words simply cannot provide!

The Tillman story must stay alive. It’s so important that the military not get away with murder. Thanks for writing this, Masaccio.

is now.

how many other pat tillman’s are there in the tallies of war dead from these wars? how many others have had their deaths covered up like they tried to do with pat’s?

…we need something more potent that words simply cannot provide!

The truth would suffice.

the truth shouldn’t have to be demanded from our government — it should be expected.

Absolutely right!
…just shows how far we have fallen

Massacio! Great post.

I have great respect for Pat Tillman’s dad. General Jones, not so much.

without the truth, there is no trust. why the hell should i vote for someone i don’t trust?

Has anyone read Krakauer’s book? Has there been anyone who has told the truth of what happened to Pat Tillman?

Agree wholeheartedly…

trust is the cornerstone of all relationships…I’ll be damn that I would vote and empower someone that lies and doesn’t warrant trust!

i’ve not. gonna have to add it to my wish list.

My understanding is that his book ‘Where Men Win Glory’ is rather scathing of a host of folks who are deemed responsible, but having not read it yet, don’t know if he reveals any additional critical info. The more telling question is where will this story eventually end…I am sure Pat Tillman’s dad has his hunches where it’s headed…and what he thinks a justified conclusion should be…he deserves that much indeed!

I was checking at Wiki to refresh my mind about the incident, and there is really no story that yet makes sense. Little Momma watches Judge Judy, and I have to say that I think JJ would have about the same amount of patience for the higher ups that Mr. Tillman has. Which we see is zero.

i don’t ordinarily go to movies but i want to see the tillman movie

Watching Patrick’s brother testify in Congress left me in tears. How long ago was that?

I think it was right after impeachment was off the table.

I don’t know if movies or anything else-other than public outrage- can stop these wars. It just scares me that people are convinced that war is the answer.

I feel like I’m 17 again, working against the Viet Nam war. Is there no learning curve at all?

(And why is Viet getting the red line? as though it’s been misspelled? And why in the fuck is Obama still getting the red line? That pisses me off.

per wiki:

On April 24, 2007, his brother Kevin Tillman, testifying at a congressional hearing, stated, “The deception surrounding this case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise.”[24]

your spellchecker doesn’t recognize them as correctly spelled there is an option when i right click on the underlined word to ‘add to dictionary’. do that and those words will not get the spellcheck redline again

Thank you Suzanne, and tears for a nation.

Fuckers — it is Late Night.

The movie is being done by A&E IndieFilms and the Weinstein Co., so hopefully the documentary might reveal a few things and definitely put the tragedy in full view for all who care to know the story…

but as clearly commented here, it is a shame that a story like this and undoubtedly countless other untold stories do not collectively awake the consciousness of those who are in dire need of being awoken! War begets a myriad of horrors…but some still keep selling it like it is some kind of holy water!

on fucking friday the 13th

Hoo boy!

Oh no! Friggatriskaidekaphobia

Apparently courage runs in the Tillman family.

Yes, and it needs to be spread around, far and wide!

I don’t know if we will ever find out the truth of the Pat Tillman story, what say you Masaccio?

Barry-O gave the marching orders: Not go back. Go only forward.

At least nothing horrible happened. I went to work, it was the usual difficult and hard seven hours, and then home to relish in the porch with happiness anticipated…

I couldn’t agree more.

Yes! Indeed a very ‘forward’ looking bunch…quite convenient!

Christine…you need to put on your anti-Friggatriskaidekaphobia (fear of Friday the 13th) cloak, and all will be well!… :–]

That misses the point, Suz. Obama should not be redlined. It’s just wrong.

heh, it was!

I don’t know. I’m not much for conspiracy theories, and there are plenty, including one that the Army sent snipers in to kill Tillman because he had turned against the war. The Army has embarrassed itself so thoroughly that no one trusts them any more, and I certainly don’t.

The lies and half-truths have probably burned themselves so deeply into everyone who knows what happened to Tillman, and how the Army handled it, that truth has disappeared into the ether.

last nights pouting baby now is on twitter

Glad to hear it!

I thought as much. The “theory” of three bullet holes in his forhead — I just don’t know what to believe.

tis a common occurrence with proper names

So sad. I’m back in the world where I believed that if everyone smoked pot, the world would be a better place! I remember telling my dad (when I was 17) that that was the answer!!

Hmmm…Masaccio, are you still here?

Aloha, Ya’ll…! I just had to bust out the Marvin Gaye…

Let’s Get It On…! ;-)

Such respect for the Tillman family…

like the jfk assassination — we will never know what really happened and why

Right.

masaccio…

Is it not amazing that the truth of matters like these have this uncanny way of ‘disappearing into the ether’, and then miraculously re-appearing when most of the prime actors in the play are already long gone? I think this collective evaporation of the truth is going to catch up with this nation, and become it’s sordid history to be queried and discussed by a new set of truth-seekers!

Am I the only one here sitting on his hands so the Lurking Mod doesn’t revoke my posting privileges permanently?

I was surprised that Mrs. Tillman hadn’t mentioned the 3 bullet holes to his forehead, in her great interview with K.O…! 8-(

“Moral hazard” is only for the little people. Just ask Donald Trump.

lurks not around tonight — ya get me

Still here, wondering about the meaning of truth.

CT…love the song…Marvin was marvellous…he sang about love making and certainly disdained war with anyone…righteous musician !

What do you mean?

One does, really.

John 18:38. Years ago I sang chorus for Bach’s Passion According to St. John. That line has stuck in my memory ever since.

Whatever conspiracy theories we construct, we do have a coverup. The deaths of Benzir Bhutto and David Kelly and who knows who else, remain mysteries that need to be solved. Mary Tillman has also spoken about the coverup and the worst general ever, McChrystal.

“McChrystal says they didn’t want to give us a half-baked finding. Yet that is exactly what they did,” she writes. “Rather than being told there were questions about Pat’s death, we were presented with a contrived story, an absolute lie about how he had been killed by enemy fire.”

She adds that her son’s autopsy and field hospital report were very suspicious from the start.

“The autopsy gives a description of Pat’s body that led us to later question if the autopsy was even his, and the field hospital report contains language that suggests he was alive when he was brought back to the field hospital at Forward Operating Base Salerno,” she writes. “Yet soldiers’ statements indicated Pat was decapitated by the barrage of bullets, and he was deemed killed in action by the medic on the scene.”

These discrepancies raised questions, she adds.

“Even the medical examiner called for a criminal investigation, but the adjutant general prevented it from going forward,” she writes. “By covering up the circumstances of Pat’s death, McChrystal and the rest of the chain of command may have, knowingly or unknowingly, covered up a crime.

We’re not even allowed to know about the Lincoln assassination. Or the Ohio vote of 2004. Florida, 2000. Gulf of Tonkin. What am I leaving out?

its been a long time since we heard the truth from politicians instead of pr and party spin. like obscenity, i know spin when i hear it…

Pat Tillman’s Dad speaks for me too. I’m with you too, masaccio.

Impeachment would have been too soft and kind.

Perfect way to put it.

SPIN = MINDGAMES

or more succinct: crazy making tactics!

Truth About Tillman … Murder’s Not ‘Friendly Fire’

…The facts in the Tillman case make friendly fire highly unlikely. He died from three bullet holes grouped together in his forehead, fired from a M-16 that was no more than ten yards away.

Three bullet holes. In the forehead. From a M-16. That was ten yards away.

That’s not “friendly fire.” That’s murder. (Unless Cpl. Tillman stood up in the path of another soldier’s fire, took three hits precisely in the forehead, then fell before being hit again.)

As abhorrent as it was for the Administration to delay telling the family, the handling of the fratricide question was even worse. A killer’s trail went cold. Now we may never know the truth…

CT…
and that’s the way they want it…buried…

Was he protecting someone else?

I want to know the truth. Nothing makes me angrier than being lied to.

No kidding. I’m sick of politicians and pundits saying thing that sound like truth because people are used to seeing things that way. We need people who see what is in front of them accurately, and without pre-conceptions of what they should be seeing.

This isn’t original: Our government, with very few exceptions among its elected politicians, wage these undeclared wars and perpetuate them essentially for two purposes. They demonstrate that the US government cares very little about its own people, including its soldiers, so it’s obvious that it cares even less for its defined enemies. The other purpose is to demonstrate new weapons, which may be purchased by any government who can afford them.

Okay, Bowlers, here’s your toss-up: The US Air Force is the largest air force in the world. Name the second largest.

its insulting… as if they think i’m stupid enough to not see through the lie or remember that yesterday’s lie contradicts today’s lie

But if the info on the bullet holes are there (from ten yards away), what’s the problem for the Tillmans?

The US Navy.

One day all the lies will come back and bite them big time. I don’t know how or when but it will happen. Sooner than later I hope. They are not special and they will find that out.

The medical examiner said he wanted a homicide investigation and the army declined to do so.

Margot, I hear you loud and clear, but these hawks have been doing nothing but lying in both wars currently being waged…and they have done it with numerous blessings from the ruling elite…it is their consistent MO!

for instance, where is the rebuke and accountability for the helicopter debacle in Iraq, vividly portrayed by wikileaks?…the death and coverup of the pregnant women civilians in the Afghan village, where bullets were dug out of the corpses…these are unspeakable and unforgiving horrors…hence where is the truth?

I don’t call getting a presidential pardon a big-time bite. It’s like they all have a pardon statuette on their dashboards.

We live in a world where tv, Karl Rove and Fox make reality. Real people have not bearing on it.

For obvious reasons they squelched that right quick…! It’s amazing how fast a mere Specialist/E-4′s demise quickly went up the chain of command…! 8-(

immoral.
They should all be in prison.

Senator evening to you all. Always find Massacio’s post introspective and morally meaningful. Loo Hoo was a war protester at 17 years old. Good for her. War is good for profiteers who profit on other’s misery. My drill instructor in USMC said to us recruits give your soul to good because your ass belongs to me. UCMJ spells out that sad story.RIP Pat Tillman.

I share your optimism, mary. This will all be sorted out. Eventually. Perhaps more rapidly.

Even the Congressional hearings are staged and scripted (according to Barney Frank and our own lying eyes). During the ‘public’ Watergate hearings they went into Executive Session a lot so we wouldn’t hear the unscripted stuff. During the Iran-Contra hearings they went into Executive Session more than just a lot.

Perhaps the line of command needs to be revisited.

They always seem to pull that ‘get out of jail free’ card Mary. The one where they emphatically tell us all how war is hell, accidents happen, nothing to see here, move on. They are NOT special and I would like to see accountability and due justice visited upon them in a way that poses a deterrent to their lies and atrocities! Possible…maybe…Probable…I doubt it!

‘It’ never has been sorted out before. Why are you optimistic that it will be?

Suz has LLN on tap…

Big Brother, thanks for your trust. I’m only a woman who worked so hard back in the 70′s to fight the Viet Nam war. War is war. It’s about killing and death and destruction. Doesn’t much matter which war unless it’s a matter of survival for America. We can continue to show off, but it doesn’t really help.

Loo Hoo Peace Hero!

Hell, I don’t know. I just like lollipops, I guess.

Oh yes. I still remember the beautiful faces on everyone who knew in their bones how killing is always wrong. I don’t see that countenance anymore. Hell, I stopped seeing it after Nixon’s inauguration…

Accountability used to be one of the hallmarks of professionalism. It still is in the Professional Left, but apparently not in the Professional Right.

I agree LooHoo…war is war, but I was with you back in the late sixties and early seventies, tirelessly supporting our getting out of Nam…but to my memory, there was a very vital and pulsing undercurrent to the whole collective movement to make things change…
I simply do not see that or more importantly ‘feel’ that these days…it seems everyone is burned out with just surviving. With Nam we had so many young people completely engaged as well as middle agers and seniors…today, young people do not seem as mobilized and energetic…I might be missing it somehow…am I?

Anti war movement was low bridged by drug biz. looking for sunshine is disappointing for me too sorry to say.

I’m confident that you remember how Senator George McGovern in 1972 was regarded as weak and effete by ‘all accounts’. But the fact is, he compared Nixon to Hitler during the campaign. Hey, so did CBS’s Walter Cronkite on the Monday night before the 1972 November election. Nowadays we applaud Olbermann and Maddow?

1. A volunteer military + contractors. 2. The body bags are relatively few.

Well, the entire media class is suggesting that war is still the issue. Gotta give credit, though, many fine media outlets are being wonderful.

Totally agree, though, that the anti-war sentiment is far less potent. Why? I cannot imagine. I can only hope that California votes in favor of legalized marijuana and that smoking it will help numb the reality of never ending war.

when will americans learn their sons and daughters are pawns for the industrial military complex and corp profits.

naw keep calling them heros for fighting in these wars for corp profits.

every imperialist nation that every existed called their soldiers heros for fighting in there wars for profits.

tillmans dad must take some responsibility for this as he gave his son that military go get them mentality.

that is what is eating him up. he knows deep down what he did while raising his son.

You’ll need to provide some credible links for that claim.

As with Vietnam and later Central America, it’s so costly in $$ that the Big Shots are saying it’s too costly in $$. The deficits are scaring their backers. No doubt Congress members are being told it’s okay to threaten to cut the funding – after November.

Links? The Internet was only in its 4th year then! Maybe there’s a video record of Cronkite’s Nightly News from that broadcast. He said at the top that CBS had never-before seen color film of Hitler and his gang, and he showed it after his closing remarks. Yeah, it was an implied comparison. Like 2+2=4 is an implied equation. McGovern recommended the recently-published book, The Mind Of Adolf Hitler, written by a psychiatrist who worked for the OSS, and gave the OSS the idea of developing a ‘psychological profile’ – presumably the first of its kind, and subsequently adopted by CIA (and most law enforcement). I could probably find info online that would substantiate my (truthful) claims, but it would probably take longer than easy threadtime.

he gave his son that military go get them mentality.

You are clearly unfamiliar with the Tillmans and their San Francisco values.

Well, here’s one:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,906256,00.html

I wish I could organize my thoughts and construct sentences this well. Perfectly expressed. Bravo!

Even if the second thing the Army said about the incident was completely true, the first thing they said wasn’t, and after that it’s hard to regain credibility. I’m not much for conspiracy theories, either, but the way the Army acted is a great way of starting them.

Pat Tillman didn’t die by friendly fire rather he was murdered, a political assassination.

Pat Tillman was presidential timber and running against betray-us, would have won hands downs. So this is about how the ends justify the means. It’s a state secret, Pat’s murder. Dick had private assassination squads, contractors reporting and taking direction from him. Pat would have been a HUGE election problem if he ever stepped foot in America again so his fate was sealed for political reasons. He suffered a “triple tap” in the forehead physics dictating a close range shot. Two guys , not from that squad, came up in a jeep and ran up the hill firing after Pat identified himself. The president ,to this day, claims the power to assassinate any American on his say so, just like what happened to Pat.

The land of the free and the home of the brave? Not quite, we’re not free and certainly not brave. This is a nation of chicken shits. We watched a President, his brother and his son die in supposed random acts along with a civil rights leader.

JFK, 9-11, Pat Tillman these murders we refuse to investigate and expose the sordid truth of our government’s involvement, of course for the good of the country, in honest open trials. We suffer the consequences of our fear of the truth today and until we face the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth the political assassinations will continue.

May Pat Tillman rest in peace after he haunts george, dick and rummy to their graves , then may he find peace.

In sum: Fuck you … and yours.

Indeed

Thanks for letting me come here and comment on the Tillman family and the tragic events that happened. For the family, and the lessons others take away from this experience; well, it is far from over and the work to be done for us is just starting.

Pat Tillman did a wonderful thing by following his senses and not just orders handed down. He noticed that something was wrong with this picture, and it bothered him. Instead of running away, he showed all of us at his job, and at home, that we must follow his example. We always here of people of the army doing heroic things, but all of them are actions in combat; how often do we here of such bravery for being a man.

If we were to look under the hood, as Pat was trying to tell us, we would find things that would make each of us at home, and the others at work feel ashamed. He was caught in two realities, and what is being said in the news was not what is going on in his job. I bet he had wished that he asked better questions before going into the armed forces, if so, I doubt he would have gone. But he believed in what he was told while growing up, he believed it all as I did. And it is enough to feel the bowels of hopelessness when put into situations like this, it is worse when others do not listen to what you have to say. I feel most men in this situation are no different in noticing this while serving our country, serving the people at home. But Pat did more, he wanted others to know even if it caused problems for himself. Wow, that is some hero; and I wish I had met this great man.

People, we have have a problem here, and we can not let others go through what Pat did. They are martars because we are not responsible ourselves, and thus these few put their neck out for each and everyone of us. I mean, if we were to act right at home, this man and others would not have to find out the truth on their own and in a battle field. And here is where Pat is special, he went first to show us that we too can be brave.

We cab sit here in our denial and continue to look through these rosy eye glasses, or we can respect life and take a look at how we each enable this problem. The man above is right in his comment. We are giving our children to a cause that has nothing to do with preserving our freedom, it is about money as Smedly Butler once said a long time ago. War is a Racket, that was his words, not mine. And we have seen enough of the other news to know that the media sings for war, and pulpit never questions. Furthermore, we have seen news that does not pertain to war, and the coverage, the talk behind the reasoning is just as flimsy. So what do we do.

I think we should honor Pat and his father for what they are trying to do. And we should try to do it ourselves. I think this is what Mr. Tillman would have wanted. To prop up more war, or talk honorable about war would not be right after what he gave up for us to see. His dad, is no different than Jim Morrison’s dad, and ten years later Jim’s dad came under the realization that his son was rebelling for good cause against his dad’s ideologies of war. He gave a beautiful speech for his son to acknowledge this. Jim was also brave, and he also did not let up on his message. He even called the counterrevolution a joke, and told his followers this in a concert. Do you remember that in Florida. The media of course spun the story, and we of course went along with it. But maybe this time we will listen.

My heart is with the Tillmans, and I am proud to be an American now because of your son. It has given me hope in a situation that is anything but easy. It shows us that we must fight for what we believe because those who do not listen do not matter, and those who matter do not care that we speak out for our future; even if our friends and coworkers want to cling and fight to preserve their dignity of a failed past.

I think Tillman’s dad is going through a lot right now, he is seeing through the lies, and how we bahve at home that enable such travesties. That is why I mentioned Morrison’s dad, you are one heck of a dad and your son would be so happy to see you right now with that kind of thinking. I just hope the rest of us can live up to your families expectations of what it means to be a man. Thanks

Anthony Orlando

P.S.
For those who do not know, Tillman was asking questions why he should guard opium fields while there to make America safe. He wrote letters about this and sent them home. He had scheduled meetings with others for when he got back so he could further shed a light on our accountability. He did this amognst I am sure horrific pressure form others to be silent. And if you think this is a stretch for a army guy to guard drugs in another country; then you should watch the movie Tia Pan. In the movie in 1845 the British were trading Opium in great amounts like 40 tons at at a time to China for jade, tea, and silk. It was so bad that China started taking the heads of these merchants. But the merchants still tried to come back, and they would use silver to bribe the officials so they could still trade opium. There is only one place in the world that has this much opium; and it is the place Pat was while at war. It was so bad in China, that the government was worried about all the drug use in China. The movie was great because it showed how arrogant business men and country can be. So do you really want to send your children to war for rulers like this’ pat was telling us no.

Thanks for joining in; and come back again.

Good job & thanks for your effort.

http://ciadrugs.homestead.com/files/cia-ig-heroin-complicity.html

In his “The Fog of War” interview with Jason Guerrasio Amir Bar-Lev, the director of “The Tillman Story,” said: “… there’s been no culpability on the second half of this tragedy, which is the higher ups trying to cover it up. … to borrow a football metaphor, they [the Tillman family] ran the ball 99 yards over four years time, they handed it off at the one-yard line to Congress and they fumbled it….”

Shortly after Sundance, Bar-Lev emailed me that “he was pretty hard on the Democratic Congress in his film.” True, his film does portray Congressman Waxman’s Oversight Committee as ineptly failing to get answers from the top military leadership during their hearing.

However, Bar-Lev’s film missed the ”untold story” that both the Democratic Congress and the Obama Presidency have intentionally protected General Stanley McChrystal from scrutiny and punishment for his central role in the cover-up of Pat Tillman’s friendly-fire death. This cover-up was a thoroughly bi-partisan affair. It wasn’t just a case of the Bush administration and the Army stonewalling the Democratic Congress. Congress didn’t just “fumble” the ball, they threw the game.

Five years ago, Pat Tillman’s family were handed a tarnished Silver Star. It was a travesty of justice that President Obama and the Senate promoted General McChrystal to the Army’s highest rank, and handed him his fourth star.

It’s not surprising that after their initial cover-up of Pat Tillman’s friendly-fire death fell apart, Army officers and the Bush administration lied to protect their careers. But after they took control of both Houses of Congress in 2006, the Democrats (including Congressman Waxman, Senator Levin, Senator Webb, and Senator McCain) could have gone after those responsible. Or at least not promoted them twice!

Just before the 2006 mid-term elections, Kevin Tillman published his eloquent letter, “After Pat’s Birthday”. Kevin had hoped a Democratic Congress would bring accountability back to our country. But, just as with warrantless wiretapping and torture, those responsible for the cover-up of his brother’s friendly-fire death have never been held accountable for their actions.

In the “The Emperor’s General” I described how President Obama’s covered for McChrystal and why Obama made his own “big-time fumble” at Sun Devil Stadium.

On Sunday, I’ll post a new document, “The [Untold] Tillman Story,” that consolidates material from my previous work and updates it with new information. Although it focuses primarily on Congress’s role in covering for General McChrystal, it also discusses the role of President Obama, NYT reporter Thom Shanker, and CNAS’s Andrew Exum. I also describe how Yoni Netanayahu, Rachel Corrie, and Senator Webb are part of the Tillman story.
. . .
The documents referenced above are posted at http://www.feralfirefighter.blogspot.com

Mary Tillman has just published a paperback edition of her 2008 book “Boots on the Ground by Dusk” with a new foreword. It’s available at http://www.blurb.com

Jon Krakauer has also published a paperback edition of his 2009 book “Where Men Win Glory.” He’s extensively revised his book, added about 50 pages, much of it adding more detail to the Army’s cover-up of Tillman’s friendly fire death (especially the role of Gen. McChrystal.

I would recommend that your readers also check out Amir Bar-Lev’s Sundance interview, “Amir Bar-Lev On What You See (and What You Don’t) In His Hot Sundance Doc The Tillman Story”