Tara Siegel Bernard wrote an article in the New York Times describing the impact of cutting Social Security benefits by raising the retirement age to 70. Alan Simpson will be shocked to learn that he was dead wrong when he said
We’re trying to take care of the lesser people in society and do that in a way without getting into all the flash words you love dig up, like cutting Social Security, which is bullshit. We’re not cutting anything, we’re trying to make it solvent.
The relatively objective financial advisers interviewed by Bernard call that nonsense. They are advising their clients to assume that their benefits will be cut by 19%. They recommend that clients increase their retirement savings by an amount sufficient to make up for that loss. Bernard gives three examples of the amount of loss for three different age groups. She only addresses people in the upper income brackets, assuming, for example, that her 35-year old couple is making a combined $120,000. This couple will have to save an additional 9.4% of their incomes each year, just to make up for the loss of Social Security Income.
Note that these aren’t even the lesser people; these are people with good jobs and lots of disposable income, who have to save more so John Boehner can have his wars, and Peter Peterson can unclench about tax hikes on his gigantic income.
But that’s not all. More savings means less current consumption. What is the effect of that in an economy already suffering from low consumer demand? My back of the envelope calculations show that for just the group 25-55, there would be a permanent reduction of consumption of $65.9 billion every year. That’s over 1% of the total consumer expenditures in 2008. We should add something for increased savings by the rest of the population, but that is harder to estimate.
Savings are equal to investments. If there is no demand for investment, as is the case now, the returns to capital will drop, especially for small investors. That means an even greater amount of money will have to be saved, resulting in a greater decrease in consumption.
Republicans and Democrats who want to cut Social Security benefits are going to wreck the economy.
______________________
Calculations. Let’s assume that we are only dealing with the cohorts from 25 to 55. According to this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Expenditure Survey (CES) for the year ended 2008, there were a total of 68,656,000 consumer units in those cohorts.
This CES chart tells us about income: 14,479.000 consumer units have incomes greater than $120,000 annually. For working purposes, let’s assume that none of them are younger than 25. There are 43,888,000 consumer units over 55. Their average income is substantially lower than the 25-55 group, according to the first CES chart. Let’s just estimate that about 2,479,000 consumer units over 55 have incomes greater than $120,,000, conveniently leaving 12 million in the group that has to cut its spending to increase its retirement income. Since this is a rough estimate, lets assume they are distributed ratably over the three cohorts. This will give a lower number than the actual number, because most likely the higher incomes are in the top two cohorts. Let’s assume everyone reduces spending by the same amount, which we will set at 9.7% to offset the lowering effect of the previous assumption. From there, thank you spreadsheet magic.




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I don’t have a link handy but I think it was at CNN yesterday I saw an article about someone who was I think 28 who wanted to save a million dollars for retirement.
The article went on and on about how big an ROI would be needed if the investor started with $100 per month and then the author/adviser went up through the steps.
I gave up when he started talking about how if the person could save $750 per month, then the ROI would “only” need to be 8% or so.
Of course, the article ended with “But why choose $1M as it probably won’t buy what $1M buys today.
Pretty much a worthless exercise since few people, 28 or 58, can actually save $750 or more a month, regardless.
Take away this prick Simpson’s govt benefits, every one, retroactive to his birth.
That the CES uses “Consumer units” instead of “people” or “citizens” really says it all, doesn’t it?
There needs to be two prongs of the spear to save our Social Security; one, this cold actuarial language to fight the frikking robots programmed to destroy it, and two the language of humanity and suffering to arouse the populace.
I am not really understanding your math but I do not think it is because you are not clear about these things. Everyone’s situation is different and people plan on retiring at different ages. So I fall into a kind of mental paralysis because I am depending on the SS benefit to be there for me at 62. Looks like if I already get a smaller benefit for taking SS early, I am going to get zapped another 20% if they raise the age for full retirement:that would be a 40% total cut on SS. If the average benefit is 1000 for examples sake, then that is a four hundred dollar cut. If SS makes up a person’s entire expected retirement because they lost their savings/stocks/house equity, and if they retire at 62 under an age 70 regimen, they stand to lose 40% of their SS. That’s how it looks to me, but that is just a guesstimate and not a fact.
Book Salon upstairs with Justin Krebs’s 538 Ways to Live, Work, and Play Like a Liberal hosted by David Swanson
Social Security Administration has a handy calculator. No need to make WAGs.
Massacio. I apologize for missing the point of your article. I am not in Tara Siegel’s target audience. I personalized the issue and my comment above was a reaction to the proposed rise in the retirement age. I also get kind of mad that the royalty who are making these pronouncements are fully aware that we lesser people are depending on SS to be there for us when we retire and half of us are going to be fully dependent upon whatever the royalty deem to allow us to have.
Maybe you can help me with applying it.
I’m thinking they’re probably closer to ‘households’, which would make sense, but why they used that WTF name instead is a headscratcher.
The assault has already begun. By using a jerry-rigged CPI multiplier the government decided that those of us already collecting Social Security weren’t experiencing any inflation and, therefore, no COLA increase for the first time. So as the cost of fuel and food increases, along with prescription drug co-pays, we get by with less while Citigroup, AIG, Goldman Sachs, BP and sundry other corporate criminals rake in obscene profits.
I’m waiting to see how long it’s going to be before the members of congress decide they need a raise while the rest of us fucking suffer out here.
Dear wmd1961,
I used the calculator where you sign in to your own account. The age 62 benefit is 75% of the payout at age 66. Since raising the full retirement age to 70 is different from delaying receiving of benefits to age 70, I don’t see how the SS calculator is AT ALL capable of answering my question. But thanks for the suggestion.
I just had to fix this sentence, anyone who thinks Barack Obama does not now deserve full credit for Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan just ain’t look’n at what’s happening out there.
I’ve never known a couple that makes $120,000 per year, not even close.
I was kinda taken aback with the phrase “so John Boehner can have his wars”. I haven’t seen Barack Obama fighting tooth and nail to stop either one of these clusterfucks.
Retirement age and full and reduced benefits are calculated based on your birth year. Wikipedia explains it in lucid prose. For example, the full-benefits age of 67 applies to persons born in 1960 and after. Those born in or after 1945 but before 1960 fall under the 66 age for full benefits. Similarly, the reduced-benefits at 62, 63, etc., also apply to a person’s birth year. I don’t know if there’s a birth-year proposal for the debated 70 age, but it probably applies only to persons who are quite young at this hour.
Alan Simpson: Doing for SocSec what he did for 9/11.
That closest can, the Friskies salmon, is what I generally gave my cat, but they pulled it out of production earlier this year for some reason, and so now she is eating Friskies Tuna. She is a Florida beach cat (though we are an hour from the beach).She prefers Pro Plan Salmon but we’ve had to cut back, I was spending more on food for her than myself. So for those partaking Princess recommends Pro Plan Salmon.
Slightly OT, but maybe not…
From HP
Can anyone tell me what this means?
Is he really going to implement the Republican plan and dare them to vote against it?
Good luck trying to run in November on that strategy.
In The Graduate remake, “plastics” is replaced with ‘fish oil’.
For him “calling their bluff” means lots of talking. “Passing the public option” also means talking, “closing Gitmo”: talking, “restoring habeous corpus”: talking, withdrawing troops from… well, you get the idea.
LOL, or “The future is in dumpster diving.” The students are moving out here, a neighbor found a whole big bag of unopened Friskies dry.
I posted this the other day, but I think it will help you to figure the amount you will lose if they raise the retirement age to 70 for full retirement benefits.
The annual brochure that I believe everyone gets from the social security administration has a chart that shows the amount of additional money you will receive in benefits if you delay your retirement until age 70. It is based on your birth year, but it shows that for each year you delay receiving your benefits past the full retirement age, you will receive up to 8% more per year.
I think that your estimate of 40% is close to the amount you would lose under the plan to raise full retirement to 70, if you retire at 62.
Therein lies the unanswered question in your last sentence. They have not described yet the reduction in benefits that are implied in moving the full retirement age up to 70 years. But thanks for responding. Your thought is that this will affect younger persons. Is that correct? I think this is a divide and conquer strategy (if you are correct that young people are the target group). Older folks vote and see changes to Social Security as a direct threat and younger people tend to think SS won’t even be there because of the propaganda. To make this into a young person’s problem is to bypass the voting elders and to target the more ‘hopeless’ propagandized youth. Generations of unionized workers have given back benefits by starting new tiers for new hires with reduced benefits for pensions and medical insurance. We should not let this happen to younger people as it pits different age groups against each other, creates unfair differences and resentment.
Thanks.
There is no Soc Sec Administration official number for what you get if the ago is raised to 70 -
we only have what GOP minority leader Boehner has proposed:
RA=Age at which worker starts receiving benefits
A=Statutorily-Defined “Retirement Age” of 65
B=Statutorily-Defined “Retirement Age” of 67
C=Statutorily-Defined “Retirement Age” of 70
“65-67″ =Percent decrease from 65-67
“67-70″ =Percent decrease from 67-70
“65-70″ =Percent decrease from 65-70
Then:
RA….B=65…C=67…..D=70..65-67..67-70..65-70
62….$800….$700….$565..12.5%..19.3%..29.4%
63….$867….$750….$610..13.5%..18.7%..29.6%
64….$933….$800….$655..14.3%..18.1%..29.8%
65..$1,000….$867….$700..13.3%..19.3%..30.0%
66..$1,080….$933….$750..13.6%..19.6%..30.6%
67..$1,160..$1,000….$800..13.8%..20.0%..31.0%
68..$1,240..$1,080….$867..12.9%..19.7%..30.1%
69..$1,320..$1,160….$933..12.1%..19.6%..29.3%
70..$1,400..$1,240..$1,000..11.4%..19.4%..28.6%
The dollar amounts are based on a hypothetical worker who would be eligible for $1,000/month benefit at the statutorily-defined “Retirement Age.” The percentage reductions are the same for all workers irrespective of their earnings. 65 is the statutorily-defined “Retirement Age” for beneficiaries born prior to 1938; 67 for beneficiaries born 1960 or later; and 70, the age proposed by House Minority Leader, Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)- this is his chart which uses the new 4.5/12 reduction factor for months after the first 60. Although the statutorily-defined “Retirement Age” is increasing to age 67, the earliest age at which benefits can be claimed, remains age 62. This chart assumes that the earliest age at which benefits can be claimed will remain 62 even if the statutorily-defined “Retirement Age” is raised to age 70.
I don’t know what kind of ‘strategies’ there are whenever Social Security ‘reform’ gets plopped onto the table. I don’t know what other people think about it, even when they post here. The shouting on TV is self-serving nonsense: babies are made to join grandmothers under the bus. Past reforms of Social Security are easily understood and available to read about.
Propagandists have drawn their lines. This here place isn’t where to be informed without bias.
Whether it’s a ‘strategy’ or an unintended consequence of the debate, there’s little doubt that the wonderful program itself has become regarded with suspicion, cynicism, and contempt.
It’s always infuriating to wage earners under 55 when they see how much of their earnings are deducted from their paychecks. Some scream every week, some every two weeks, a few only once a month.
Federal workers received a cost of lounging increase, while elderly are at zero. Simpson is evil.
I think you missed statutory retirement age of 66 for those born between 1945 and 1959.
EDIT: Darn reply feature isn’t working; this should have been reply to papau@24.
Why is it only infuriating to workers under 55? I think people of any age would regard it as the price we pay for living in what (at least until recently) was a civilized country.
I admit it, I can’t figure out that chart. Do you have a link to an explanatory document describing your chart and its source? Thanks.
Social security was supposed to unite us and bring us together in a social contract of caring for each other’s most basic needs. Not supposed to divide and discourage and alienate us from each other. Thanks for writing.
One reason for the attack on the middle class was that the elite realized during the anti-Vietnam war protests that middle class people had too much free time and discretionary income, which allowed them to meddle in the affairs of the rich and powerful.
Now that more people are living more active lives after retirement, and seeing how politically active the gray demographic is, I’m pretty sure one tangential benefit to pushing back the full retirement age and other cuts to SS is a predicted reduction in the time seniors have for meddlesome political activity.
And like we won’t notice the cuts in medicare either.
Maybe that’s congress’s answer to solving the SS problem.
Just cut our medical care
Incorrect birth years were given. Those people born between 1943 and 1954 are the people who become eligible for full Social Security at age 66. (Source: ssa.gov)
Even if one is successful at saving/investing and works until 70 or beyond (I have a pt job where I work with lively folks who are in their 70s to early 80s), most middle and working class citizens still need to have the “third leg” of the retirement stool (a metaphor used in many retirement seminars), which is Soc Sec, to survive.
My dad had a pension; made great investments that grew (not too long ago, this used to work; these days it’s much more dicey & unreliable); plus for the majority of his retirement, he and my mom had most of their health ins paid for. Yet it would have been a tremendous struggle without Soc Sec to top it all off. My parents lived frugally and managed to save/invest quite a bit. A lot of citizens don’t have the financial resources and/or know-how that my parents did.
Soc Sec is a life-line that is really needed by the “average” citizen, and it’s something that I’d like to be able to count on when I retire. But I’m saving and doing what investments I can and pretending that the obscenely wealthy, like Peterson, have already ripped off my Soc Sec.
It’s not right. Citizens work hard and deserve what they put into the system & saved. Ptouiii!
the chart was put out by the GOP.
the early retirement factors used are 5/9ths per month early relative to the normal retirement age for each of the first 36 months, 5/12ths per month for months 37 to 60 (which are current law for the Reagan age 67 “normal retirement age”), and 4.5/12ths for months 61 to 96 for the 3 year GOP addition that gets one to age 70 from Reagan’s age 67.
The chart then assumes the earning history under 3 normal retirement ages – age 65, Reagan’s age 67, and the GOP’s age 70 produces the same benefit of 1000 per month at that column’s normal retirement age. That 1000 is then reduced by the above early retirement factors to give the benefit at the selected early retirement age, or is increase by the late retirement increase factor now in current law to get a benefit at age 70.
The final three columns are just ratios to show the reduction in benefits from current law. It is remarkable how consistent the 20% reduction is – regardless of the early retirement age you chose.
I am in the camp of giving the GOP its retirement age increase (phased in of course to be totally in effect 40 years from now at the earliest) – but only if the retirement payroll tax wage cap is totally removed – phased in removal of the wage cap is OK with me, but it must be totally removed (we should go for inclusion of investment income, as in the health reform, also).
Top 5 Social Security Myths
Myth #1: Social Security is going broke.
Reality: There is no Social Security crisis. By 2023, Social Security will have a $4.6 trillion surplus (yes, trillion with a ‘T’). It can pay out all scheduled benefits for the next quarter-century with no changes whatsoever.1 After 2037, it’ll still be able to pay out 75% of scheduled benefits—and again, that’s without any changes. The program started preparing for the Baby Boomers’ retirement decades ago.2 Anyone who insists Social Security is broke probably wants to break it themselves.
Myth #2: We have to raise the retirement age because people are living longer.
Reality: This is a red-herring to trick you into agreeing to benefit cuts. Retirees are living about the same amount of time as they were in the 1930s. The reason average life expectancy is higher is mostly because many fewer people die as children than they did 70 years ago.3 What’s more, what gains there have been are distributed very unevenly—since 1972, life expectancy increased by 6.5 years for workers in the top half of the income brackets, but by less than 2 years for those in the bottom half.4 But those intent on cutting Social Security love this argument because raising the retirement age is the same as an across-the-board benefit cut.
Myth #3: Benefit cuts are the only way to fix Social Security.
Reality: Social Security doesn’t need to be fixed. But if we want to strengthen it, here’s a better way: Make the rich pay their fair share. If the very rich paid taxes on all of their income, Social Security would be sustainable for decades to come.5 Right now, high earners only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,000 of their income.6 But conservatives insist benefit cuts are the only way because they want to protect the super-rich from paying their fair share.
Myth #4: The Social Security Trust Fund has been raided and is full of IOUs
Reality: Not even close to true. The Social Security Trust Fund isn’t full of IOUs, it’s full of U.S. Treasury Bonds. And those bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.7 The reason Social Security holds only treasury bonds is the same reason many Americans do: The federal government has never missed a single interest payment on its debts. President Bush wanted to put Social Security funds in the stock market—which would have been disastrous—but luckily, he failed. So the trillions of dollars in the Social Security Trust Fund, which are separate from the regular budget, are as safe as can be.
Myth #5: Social Security adds to the deficit
Reality: It’s not just wrong—it’s impossible! By law, Social Security’s funds are separate from the budget, and it must pay its own way. That means that Social Security can’t add one penny to the deficit.8
Defeating these myths is the first step to stopping Social Security cuts. Can you share this list now?
Sources:
1.”To Deficit Hawks: We the People Know Best on Social Security,” New Deal 2.0, June 14, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89703&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=4
2. “The Straight Facts on Social Security,” Economic Opportunity Institute, September 2009
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89704&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=5
3. “Social Security and the Age of Retirement,” Center for Economic and Policy Research, June 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89705&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=6
4. “More on raising the retirement age,” Washington Post, July 8, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89706&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=7
5. “Social Security is sustainable,” Economic and Policy Institute, May 27, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89707&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=8
6. “Maximum wage contribution and the amount for a credit in 2010,” Social Security Administration, April 23, 2010
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/240
7. “Trust Fund FAQs,” Social Security Administration, February 18, 2010
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html
8.”To Deficit Hawks: We the People Know Best on Social Security,” New Deal 2.0, June 14, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89703&id=22140-3622808-9ybxFAx&t=9
yep. Force these people to worry about eating and looking for work and they’ll leave the rich alone. Democracy is for the winners not the losers is how most Rethugs see it. If your old and poor you shouldn’t have the right to vote or drive.