Welcome Justin Krebs, Living Liberally, and Host David Swanson, Let’s Try Democracy , War is a Crime blog
[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]
Become a Liberal in 538 Easy Steps
Justin Krebs is the cofounder of Drinking Liberally and its spin-offs Eating Liberally, Screening Liberally, Laughing Liberally, Reading Liberally, and Living Liberally. Over 50,000 people take part in weekly gatherings in 300 communities around the country (and some outside it), including in my town, where liberal political talk is on the agenda. Given the inclination of many, if not most, Americans to avoid politics, and the lack of any support groups for liberals in the most right-wing communities, this has to be a good thing.
Krebs would point out, I’m sure, that getting together to drink and socialize is a good thing in itself for most people, but I mean that it must also be more than that, and Krebs notes that Drinking Liberally “has been a gateway” into political activism for a lot of people. Krebs’ new book is not, for the most part, an account of what’s come out of these gatherings (we can ask him about that today), but it is an account of the thinking that inspired them. The book, “538 Ways to Live Work and Play Like a Liberal,” is largely a flowing and readable list of things you can do, large and small. OK, mostly small.
The book just inspired me to ask someone at a nearby table here on the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville to watch my books and computer while I went to get the taco I’m now spilling on the computer, and inspired me to get the beer I’m having with it. Perhaps I’ll make friends with the person who watched my stuff. I certainly saved time and now have some glorious Guinness inside me. And yet, the wars-and-wall-street economy rolls on unperturbed by my small steps for liberalism. So, one question is this: if I were not already a fulltime activist to the left of Krebs would I be moving in the direction of liberal political engagement? Or this: am I beginning to build a community through which to mobilize for the liberal agenda I already favor?
The book seems addressed to both such audiences. It seeks to move people toward useful engagement with their societies at all levels, including national politics. And it seeks to provide generally liberal people with ways to spread the word and organize. And the book is packed with great ideas for each. Krebs defines liberal as follows:
“Liberals believe that we are better off when we live for each other than when we live only for ourselves.”
Krebs elaborates and gets more specific, very specific. Personally, I’m going to try to find one of those solar-powered backpacks, learn more about seed banks, and join the Freelancers’ Union, among other of the 538 liberal moves. There are also good lists of films, tv shows, theater productions, books, magazines, and websites in the book. They’re center-left, not progressive or radical. But that seems to be the point: nudging the inactive into comfortable engagement. These are great lists for that.
Krebs makes clear that his 538 items are his own, idiosyncratic, and New York City-centric, and that the liberal thing to do is to add your own, and even to disagree. So, here begins my quibbling: A lot of the things on this list can only be done if you’re an extrovert – I know people who really can’t do some of them and are still politically left. A lot of them can only be done if you work in an office, and many only if you own the office, others only if you have money to invest in the stock market (an at least questionable liberal practice). I want to complain that you also can’t be a busy workaholic, but Krebs’ point is that you shouldn’t be just that — and he’s right. Other items appear only possible if the president happens to be a Republican. Billionaires for Bush and Run Against Bush have been shut down for partisan reasons. Krebs tries to keep State of the Union drinking games alive, but tells us we don’t have as much to oppose in them anymore. (I’d like to make a toast: to a liberal debate on that point!)
The steps into full-fledged political involvement are very slow. My garden just can’t counter pro-oil government policies. Items #30 and 67 start to include advocacy for better public policy, but item #50 moves away from that. Items #74-78 lay out a broad political agenda, and it’s a good one. But I have to wonder why peace didn’t make the cut, especially since all the things we need money for in items #79-93 could be paid for if we ended the wars and cut the military.
The U.S. entry to World War II is praised as one of the great feats of liberalism to be celebrated, but it was the result of endless deadly blunders, had nothing to do with the holocaust which had been buried in the back pages by Krebs’ beloved New York Times, involved the indiscriminate mass-slaughter of German (and French by us) and Japanese civilians, expanded our already well-developed imperialism, added abuse of Japanese Americans to our abuse of African Americans, and ended with the criminal dropping of nuclear bombs on cities.
But Krebs also cites Nixon’s resignation as one of the great feats of liberalism, and that is one I think we all need to learn from. Krebs develops ideas for purchasing-power consumer activism that will interest a lot of people. His final chapter on political engagement touches mostly on elections, not legislation, but it includes a wonderful example of how the Idaho Falls chapter of Drinking Liberally got involved in anti-war activism — which I hope Justin will talk to us about.
I’m already on board with Krebs’ agenda of political engagement, and so I’m picking out the bits that are new to me and the bits I disagree with. What I’d especially like to hear from Justin and from the rest of you is experiences of moving from “I’m not political” or “I like Rush Limbaugh” to something more useful for the world.



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Welcome, Justin, and everyone! Thanks to FDL.
Justin, Welcome to the Lake.
David, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
David, thanks for the thoughtful post and for hosting this salon.
Justin, I have two major themes for this grilling:
1) Are you at this very moment drinking liberally?
2) Do you think Fire Dog Lake would be a great name for a beer?
David -
Happy to report that I am drinking at this moment. OK, at this exact moment, it’s just water. But I have a cold beer waiting just an arm’s length away.
I figured it would only be appropriate to do so…
Are you?
Hi there – love this subject and glad you are here!
*brb, getting some wine…*
Also it would be very cool if you could tell us the story of how one of your Drinking Liberally chapters got involved in anti-war activism, picking up the lead of some students who got into a bit of trouble.
Also, I would take a deep sip of “Fire Dog Lake” — but what kind of beer would it be? A craft beer obviously…maybe a refined taste, one that has kick, but goes down smooth.
Starr Hill, local Charlottesville brew.
It’s like we’re all sharing a drink…we’ll be here when you get back, Kelly.
It would have to be a “lager” :) Just saying…
Only if there’s a non-alcoholic version that I can drink too.
Exactly
Good afternoon Justin and David and welcome to FDL this afternoon.
Justin, I have not had an opportunity to read your book so forgive me if you answer this there but how did you come to pick 538 items? Random number or did you just stop there because you could?
Definitely a lager.
Fire Dog Lake Virgin
And when you answer that, Justin, could you explain the appropriateness? Shouldn’t the electoral college be scrapped, and don’t we obsess over the quadrennial imperial ritual a bit much?
David -
In your post, you noted that I didn’t speak much about the peace movement, at least not early in the book. As I was thinking about it — and about how of course the peace movement is so integrated into “living like a liberal,” I remembered exactly the anecdote you are referring to.
In Idaho Falls — a place not famous for its liberals — the chapter of Drinking Liberally really serves as a progressive hub for that part of the state.
The value of this hit home when I heard about the trouble a few high school anti-war protestors got into.
They had vandalized public property…going to “STOP” signs and stenciling the word “war” beneath “stop” — hence, “Stop War.”
This was creative and catchy…but it also defaced public property. Not a great idea for a couple of minors.
The court fined them for the cost of replacing the signs and sentenced them to community service.
The Idaho Falls Drinking Liberally chapter decided to take action.
1. They raised money — but selling “Stop War” tee shirts with images of the Stop signs…and selling the signs themselves! — to pay for the fines and legal fees.
2. They joined the teens in doing the service — so community service wasn’t just a punishment but a real community activity.
3. They got involved with high school peace groups to create protest opportunities that wouldn’t involve breaking the law…so teens could protest but also not have it on their record as they were applying for college.
The Idaho Falls chapter is inspirational. Dan, their host, was out at NN last week in Vegas. I highly recommend you visit if you’re in that part of the country.
“cherishing the environment, cultivating peace, and working with other nations, other communities, and our neighbors to develop solutions that work well for all of us”
Thusly to you describe liberals.
Isn’t this majority opinion?
Doesn’t it have almost zero overlap with the behavior of our government?
If Yes to both of those, isn’t something so fundamentally broken that getting more people to vote might not fix it?
What’s step 2? How do we get from engagement to sacrifice and transformation?
538 is a magic political number — the number of electoral votes.
So while the book is not about electoral politics, it is a number that resonates with political wonks.
…and when i realized I had 524 ways at the end of the 2nd draft, it just felt right.
This story is worth the price of the book, I think, and would be even if you hadn’t sent me a free one :-) It should be told far and wide, made into a Youtube, etc.
I didn’t put that together – I thought it was a jab at:
Congress – 435
Senate – 100
Line of succession, Prez, VP, Speaker – 3
Total – 538
Hah! Live and learn…
Are there other stories of what chapters have done?
Have chapters shared stories through a national network?
Have you ever urged a national action agenda on chapters?
I agree with David’s point (which I read after my first response — getting the hang of an online salon…bear with me…) that we do obsess too much about the one election every 4 years.
I actually had this conversation with a handful of Communists two days ago at Mayday Books in Minneapolis. It’s a great underground (literally) shop with a terrific selection. Those who gathered for our book event definitely found “liberal” to be too conservative / establishment / compromising for them.
They wanted to push me on how it is I can vote for people every 4 years who don’t live up to my ideals. But as we talked more, we realized it’s the work that happens day in and day out — some of it electoral, some more broadly political and some more generally community-oriented — that lead to real change…and that set the stage on which the Presidential race is just one scene.
FDL of course does a great job of that — not losing steam because an election has come and gone, but digging in on more than the 538-obsession.
That said, it’s a fun title.
At the risk of making our Idaho friends turn red in the face, one more story about them: Loving Day.
Every year, they throw a Loving Day Celebration. Loving Day commemorates Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court decision that stuck down laws against interracial marriage.
In mostly-white Idaho, they throw an annual picnic/barbecue celebration in a local park honoring progressive heroes. It’s their way of embracing Loving Day — a day that I think could be marked around the country. (and #298 in the book)
There are plenty of stories of chapters that have done direct action, or raised the profile of liberal causes (marching in their 4th of July parades) or finding other ways of connecting activists and newcomers with candidates and media.
We try to tell many of those stories on the Living Liberally blog (livingliberally.org) but we could always do a better job of it.
Do the Drinking Liberally and Screening Liberally and so forth chapters tend to vary in terms of their political outlook? Do some include Minneapolis communists? The one I’m familiar with is dominated by Law students and Democrats involved in the local party, some probably with ambitions in that line. There’s not much overlap with the local peace and justice community. It sounds like that’s our fault, given the Idaho example above.
It’s also the title of Nate Silver’s blog, of course, so the number kicks around out there.
I do get asked about the number at almost every Drinking Liberally chapter I speak at. And almost everytime, before I can respond, someone in the crowd shouts, “The electoral college!”
We’re all learning from each other…
Ought to shame us Virginians actually
Every chapter of Living Liberally is different and has a certain about of autonomy — so the chapter you know might be more local law students and the chapter in Milwaukee, Wisconsin might be more local bloggers and the chapter in Kansas City might be a loose-knit group of people searching for a political home.
Each one ends up reflecting the interests of the hosts, often — though usually the hosts are happy to adapt to whomever the attendees are. Most of the hosts, also, are eager when someone suggests programming.
For example: Participant Media, which distributed the Oscar-winning doc, “The Cove,” worked out a special arrangement for Drinking Liberally chapters to host free screenings.
About 40 chapters have done it. They are not chapters that had necessarily been big on environmental issues before, or on animal rights, or as food activists — some of them have never shown a screening.
But approaching them with an opportunity excited them. It’s all still a case-by-case basis (we have 300 chapters…only 40 decided to do screenings) but it gives you a sense of how a campaign or national project can engage our groups.
Very cool blog
Didn’t know Chelsea Clinton was in the club
Maybe Virginia can turn it around and embrace it as a mark of pride — “See, we were part of the battle that ALLOWED marriages between people of all races”…a little revisionist history…
We have a “Working Liberally” chapter that meets here in Denver too. It got made in response to the current economic challenges, and people meet to network.
I finally convinced my partner to go to the next one.
Poor thing, used to work for the reich-winger printer who donated some printing to a R-Candidate in the CO Gov Race. Suffered at work tremendously as they’d forward the “Liberal Hunting License” type of emails to him.
I said “Fuck that, quit. We’ll find you some commie-pinko work, baby.”
One of the most active parts of the Living Liberally site is our Eating Liberally blog. Kerry Trueman writes there. She was a contributor to the book, a CREDO Mobile Blogger-Activist-of-the-Year, and a great writer and convener around food / environment / sustainability issues.
She’s also got flair in her writing.
She enjoyed talking about the vegetarian side of the Chelsea story…
Kelly -
I love the “Working Liberally” group. It’s a sign of how each new Liberally project begins — someone says, “Well, how about Cycling Liberally” or “Can’t we go Hiking Liberally” or “I want to be Investing Liberally”…and before you know it, it happens…
That’s how Reading Liberally, Screening Liberally and so many others first started.
How’s the group going? Any great ideas coming out of it?
Isn’t the new title The New York Times? Is he required to believe all election results are accurate now? I’d love to see the list of things you’re required to believe. The Times reported that Gore won, yet will without a doubt lead Nader’s obit with He gave us Bush. Sorry, I detest the New York Times and would rather listen to fingernails on a blackboard than NPR. I grant you, they’re better in a way than Fox, but they’re also worse because they’re advertised as liberal opposition.
YES
Justin
I’ve been thinking a lot about your Epilogue, in which you describe how easily you got along w/folks in Holland, MI. That’s because mr. ew just moved me to W MI. And while there ARE great aspects of Holland (the water, the very cool hotel), what gets called liberal is in some key regards just good governance (I’m beginning to think Holland is the far right bookend to Ann Arbor as the moderate left small well managed city on the other side of the state).
Though there is no recycling.
How do you separate out good governance and community from liberal policies?
One more note on this point: there are communists who come to chapters. And socialists. And Greens. And independents. And occasionally Republicans.
I had a long conversation with a Libertarian Tuesday in Chicago. Wednesday in Milwaukee, they told me the Tea Part Senate candidate had come by — and was surprised to find that nobody jeered him or chased him away. Everyone said, “We don’t agree with you, but come have a beer.”
We’re not looking to have intentional bipartisanship, but I am proud that there isn’t a simple litmus test to coming in the door — and that we are not a capital-D Democratic club.
Maybe Hickenlooper is hiring.
Denver’s a great place for liberal groups.
PETA should offer Chelsea a million dollars if she can turn her father vegan
Also isn’t this the town in which Jeremy Scahill BEGINS his book, with a different slant? But he also says he’s been there and met with good progressive groups.
I honestly don’t know what ideas etc. they’ve got going on. From the last email John (local Drinking Liberally Coordinator) sent out, I think there’s about 12-15 regulars, and if I recall correctly it just started in April? I don’t remember exactly.
Anyways, the first one my partner will go to is the August meetup in about 2 weeks.
Sounds right to me!
It’s true than anyone living in Holland, or passing through, would know immediately it’s not a paragon of liberalism as I playfully compare it to in the epilogue.
What emptywheel is referring to is that I go to a very conservative town and discover the fair-trade coffee shop, the LEED certified hotel, the local environmental paper. All more typically “liberal” innovations.
But I also really like their walkable downtown, and their serious investment in civic amenities like parks, public benches and a waterfront.
It’s true that it is probably self-proclaimed conservatives on the town council that approve these investments — or even conservative business leaders that call for them. What struck me, though, is that behind these civic amenities is an understanding that:
a) we need government to invest resources into common improvements
b) things that improve our collective experience in a public way are important for a town
c) not everything should be left to private enterprise
Those are core to my liberal approach. In some ways, good governance may be inherently liberal (as i define Liberal) since conservatives would rather see a dysfunctional government.
In other ways, I would hope it ignites a conversation with conservatives who do believe in public infrastructure, parks, open spaces, diverse, community-wide celebrations…because I think those become challenges to so much conservative rhetoric we hear these days.
Hickenlooper (Praised Be His Brew Pub Foundingness) is bizzy running for Governor!
that would be an amazing campaign — start the Facebook group ASAP!
I think it can be hard at first to reconcile working for a conservative or a-political company — but if you need the paycheck, what are you supposed to do?
The book gives ideas for creating change within the workplace, but you can’t always have say over the CEO’s actions.
Actually, one of the folks from Mayday Books works for Target…which is the target of a lot of criticism of its own right now…
That’s great
I’m sad to say I don’t know how Jeremy began his book — really? In Holland? What’s the scenario?
Those good Hollanders are going to think there’s a nefarious underground ring of liberals there after they read all this…
My pint exactly
The Times news coverage should not be confused for the liberal position. They are better than Fox without doubt, but their reputation convinced a lot of readers to support the Iraq War — they were quite complicit in that.
They do give us Krugman, Herbert and Rich all of whom I read regularly.
I’m on it
Oh, incidentally, do you have the million $ ?
i’m going to start saying that — “my pint exactly” — the beer puns never stop once they start flowing…
Erik Prince of Blackwater is from Holland, Mich., and his father is local royalty. HE funded all the nice stuff downtown. See Chapter 1 of “Blackwater” by Scahill.
Heh – the last time I made beer with my brother-out-law, it was an IPA we called “Hop and Change-y.”
*quaffs*
Another story from a chapter has to do with our Laramie, Wyoming group. Now, I’ve never been to Laramie, but their host there was very active in a group called Stand Up for Peace – Wyoming. He saw DL as a way of continuing that work.
I learned that because, sadly, Mike Oxley — the host in question — died quite suddenly about two years ago. In his obituary, it talked about his dedication to peace efforts, and said he was a man who “laughed liberally, loved liberally and lived liberally.”
Through these obituaries, I felt like I got to know the man — even though I’d never met him.
“The Times news coverage should not be confused for the liberal position”
I agree
And I love your book
But I’m not sure your book agrees
Yep. He had a really good reception the last time he came though: he appeared on the same day as Prince showed up somewhere else and apparently had a packed place.
Sounds like he lived up to your book
There’s an explosion of home-brewing going on — and a really robust microbrew movement.
The microbrewers are the types of folks that should be politicized. They are fighting against some pretty big opponents — but are creating better product. They are more connected with their communities, have less adverse environmental impact. But I’m willing to bet we can’t name one prominent politician who has tried to think about engaging the microbrewing community.
And it’s not like they aren’t organized. There are microbrewery conventions and associations and publications…yet no politicians try to appeal to them.
Is it true Prince denied his wife medical treatment that interferred with pregnancy because her duty was to breed, and that he filled her in on her replacement when she lay dying? That’s got to merit a monument of some kind.
Are you promoting DL through that network? Great idea.
There’s a part of the book, in the section on “Learning Liberally,” that has a quick comment on the fact that “professional papers with publishers and editors get things wrong.”
In an earlier draft, that actually recounted in greater detail the Times and its role in the WMD fictions. It didn’t make it into the final, but I hope I don’t over-celebrate the Times too much as THE source for info.
Dunno. In Ann Arbor, the Greffs (who own the Arbor Brewing Company) are very active in the party (I know them from the Dean days and from playing ultimate frisbee). They offer a cross-over there w/MI’s excellent beer culture, I think. (And a lot of the fundraisers in MI are at ABC.) So the Dingells, at least, spend a lot of time there, though it hasn’t prevented John from reneging on his brief commitment to net neutrality.
#82 is Police, as opposed to rent-a-cops, as a public good.
That ought to almost qualify as anti-liberal as well as liberal.
I liked Jay Inslee opposing the war $ last week, complaining that we’re laying off cops to pay for training Afghan cops with money borrowed from China.
But of course, cops’ unions and most cops themselevs will never oppose wars, even if it means firing all cops.
How do you move from “paying for police is liberal” to turning police themselves liberal?
I wonder where he spoke?
I personally enjoyed Lemonjello’s coffee shop — not only did they essentially serve by the honor code, they also had a sign pinned up advertising: “Finally, a church as liberal as Jesus.”
i imagine he didn’t speak in that coffee shop but that might be where i head if invited
One of the 538 things I’m looking into:
http://www.freelancersunion.org
How did State of the Union drinking game viewings go this year?
I happen to be in the Twin Cities today and was hearing folks from St. Paul and Minneapolis talk about their police. The consensus was that the Minneapolis police are a pretty rough lot — there are bad community relations, race issues and unnecessary violence. The St. Paul’s residents feel better about their police — they feel like the culture set by the police chief creates and demands a very different tone.
I haven’t interacted with the police much, but it was interesting to hear this agreement that the culture could be set very differently starting at the top.
(Note: if you were in St. Paul for the RNC, as I was two years ago, it was the Ramsey County cops, not the local police, that were complicit in brutal and anti-democratic acts)
One more note: at the Minneapolis DL chapter on Thursday, a regular came in…in uniform. They have a liberal police officer who attends frequently. I’ll ask him how we can convert more cops.
Why is Oligarchs for Obama so less appealing an idea to people than Billionaires for Bush?
Our friend who did Run Against Bush now works at the AFL-CIO which is scheduled to seriously oppose an elected Democrat sometime in the year 2037 I think it is.
How do we get back the energy of such campaigns, with or without targeting a particular individual?
THAT’d be a good blog
Freelancers is a great group. They said, OK lots of folks are freelancing, are facing the same issues, getting screwed over in the same ways…let’s do something about it.
Two things I find particularly inspiring:
1. It is not a government project. While I spend a lot of space in the book highlighting things I think the government should be doing, the point is not that the government should do it all. Collectives are a really powerful approach for local folks to take ownership over their lives, organize with neighbors and really live liberally.
Food collectives. Work Collectives. Bicycle collectives. These inspire me. And Freelancers is in that same mold.
2. I happen to think it’s funny that they are a Freelancers Union — Working Alone Together (not sure if they use that slogan, but maybe they should)
Went well. It’s as easy to predict the words and tropes Obama will use so it’s as easy to create drinking games.
That said, while in the past, we all needed to cringe and jeer together at President Bush, it’s different now. People ended the speech feeling decidedly mixed about President Obama. It actually led to more engaged conversations afterward because people were pushing back and forth on whether it was a good speech.
“The resignation of Richard Nixon. This was a momentous event, but is often looked at as a sad moment for America. It seems to me to showcase America at its best.” So begins #299. I think it should be a national holiday, and August 9 is coming up. But I’m interested in what you think can be done to restore the rule of law at the highest levels.
It’s hard to create any of that energy targeting President Obama.
1. Many of us like him. We may be disappointed, annoyed or mixed — but we still like a lot about him.
2. Many of us worked for him. It’s really hard to get people to join a protest targeting someone we gave our time to.
3. He’s doing better than the other guys. So while there are a dozen issues any of your community could rattle off without pause where he has not made change, he’s also not an ultimate villain.
That said, there are villains out there. Oil barons are villains. Banksters are villains. We could probably name a dozen Senators who are villains — including some from the President’s own party.
So while there needs to be pressured directed at Obama, you’re only going to get the outpouring of energy around some other targets.
an uptown question: what’s the liberal thing to do about Charlie Rangel and what do you think of Jonathan Tasini whose successful lawsuit agianst the Times on behalf of freelancers ties together just about every post in this thread except the food ones (and who’s running for Rangel’s seat)?
It wasn’t in my mind that it was on August 9th. Love the idea for it to be a national holiday. How wold you celebrate it?
(I’ll answer you more substantive question in a sec)
Jonathan is a regular visitor to Drinking Liberally and a great guy. It’s actually a shame more folks don’t know about the Times suit — I feel like it establishes such credibility.
Do you want to take a moment to fill in your community on that suit? Or is that ranging off topic…
Of course you’re right about how people think, but is it 100% clear they’re right to think that way?
“He’s doing better than the other guys. So while there are a dozen issues any of your community could rattle off without pause where he has not made change, he’s also not an ultimate villain.”
How so? More military money, more war money, more troops, more mercenaries, more bases, more secret military opps, more firmly established powers of aggressive war, lawless imprisonment, rendition, torture, assassination, assassination of Americans, warrantless spying, stripping of citizenship, greater claims of secrecy and impunity and the power of retroactive immunity, worse abuses than signing statements in altering laws, greater willingness to openly ignore laws, etc, etc.
I’m looking at things getting worse, not just staying the same.
Nixon pinatas
18.5 minute beer bongs
Well, isn’t it so that liberalism isn’t defined by any one person, and so feelings about Obama should be mixed, at best, and pissed at worst?
It’s ALWAYS something political at my house. Always. So back in 2006 when Pelosi to impeachment “off the table” when friends/company came over to eat/drink, I treated them to a variety:
Peach Liqueur and Slo Gin with with a splash of 7 – “Peaches Under The Table”
For dessert: A brownie, with peanuts, chocolate ice cream and lit on fire with brandy, called it “Flaming Monkey Poo” ’cause the wingers were going yo fling it anyway.
In other words, and with crazy humor, at my place we just always lampoon about the human’s foible against principle, principle stands regardless of what the elected actor does, and it’s a winner every time I will say.
We can restore the rule of law by RESPECTING THE LAW.
no – that sounds creepy. i have this image of propaganda posters with little children saluting police officers…not the route i was going…
Believe it or not, August 9th parties — marking Nixon’s resignation — would go a long way toward it. Hell, if you don’t want to demonize the guy, call him a patriot for recognizing the law was bigger than him and it was duty to step down.
(OK, that may be a stretch…)
Seriously, though, if we’d all been taught in schools that his resignation was the epitome of our system working, then we wouldn’t have been so scared about bringing charges against Bush and Cheney. We would’ve said, “This is what a responsible Congress does to embody the will of our engaged citizenry — just like we learned in school.”
Wikipedia:
New York Times Co. v. Tasini, 533 U.S. 483 (2001), is a leading decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of copyright in the contents of a newspaper database. It held that The New York Times, in licensing back issues of the newspaper for inclusion in electronic databases such as LexisNexis, could not license the works of free-lance journalists contained in the newspapers.
The lawsuit brought by members of the National Writers Union against the New York Times Company, Newsday Inc., Time Inc., University Microfilms International, and LexisNexis. The freelance writers charged copyright infringement due to the use and reuse in electronic media of articles initially licensed to be published in print form. In a decisive 7-2 ruling delivered by Justice Ginsburg, the Court affirmed the copyright privileges of freelance writers whose works were originally published in periodicals and then provided by the publishers to electronic databases without explicit permission of, or compensation to, the writers. As a result of the decision, plaintiffs won a compensation pool of $18 million, which has not yet been distributed.
I bet we could find a great Nixon impersonator too…
a dunking booth?
thanks – hey everyone, take a moment to read about this court case – it’s an interesting episode to know
ooh…it says the 18 million settlement from the Times case has yet to be distributed…maybe that can fund our Nixon pinatas
He had some shame, or we had a communications system and/or a congress
Something was different worth honoring about that era
Worse people since have retired with honors and started think tanks where they complain about too much thinking going on
I’m not naming any names
It’s all coming together
LOL!
Shots of “Rosemary Woods” – 1 part Absinthe, 1 part silence, throw Quaker Oats over your shoulder and toss in one gulp.
Obama’s birthday and Nixon’s resignation in the same week…i bet we could find appropriate drinks for both.
Actually, we have done an competition for “The Official Unofficial Drink of the Obama Presidency” and come up with something called the Hope Float. but that was in early ’09.
Per David’s comments in the other thread, it would be worth hosting a new competition to see what people would call an Obama-inspired drink now
While I’m arguing with everything and before I get another beer, can I ask how Harry Potter made it into the Liberal Book List? This is a book about good and evil people that encourages two standards of behavior. It is right to mock and attack and ultimately kill the Evil people, but right to be undertsanding and empathetic with the Good people. This is US foreign policy for children.
Thsi could actually become the BEST holiday we have. Sure beats “honoring our brave men and women … “
Pandora’s Box?
do you feel it’s getting worse because you think:
1. Obama actually has worse ideas than Bush
or
2. Obama has less of a counter-weight against bad ideas because liberals give him a pass
or some combo of the two? i’m curious.
-j
Purchasing Power is a big theme in the 400s of the 538. What hopes do you put there, relative to the power to influence representative govt?
I know the drink:
2 jiggers of 151 proof rum, called, wait for it…
“What Works.”
I wasn’t thinking about Obama’s ideas at all, and was never clear that Bush had any. I was comparing Bush’s actions to Obama’s actions. Of course Bush advanced abusive imperial powers 60 yards down the field, but advancing them 20 more still makes you worse than him, no?
Sold!
Hawaian of course.
I think the Left and Right should have a throw-down argument about Harry Potter. I’m only sort of kidding.
While there is an absolutely evil force in the form of Voldemort and his immediate folloers, there isn’t a whole lot of this type of person is good / this type of person is bad. Interactions with the different types of creatures — Giants, House Elves, Centaurs — reveal them to be at-time self-interested, at times open to reason — but not a lot of, “Those wizards from that country are evil” or “That non-human race needs to be colonized.”
To the contrary, the world is at its best when the different backgrounds of folks work together, when they embrace hope rather than fear and unity rather than division. Messages against racism, slavery, class warfare are throughout the texts.
There’s a great group called the HP Alliance using the texts to engage and inspire fans to greater social action.
They got me thinking about the book and how liberals would do well to point out where our values coincide with the values of this cultural phenomenon
Investing liberally: When I worked at the AFL-CIO we could never find an investment fund that didn’t invest in non-unionized companies. Ever heard of one?
I hope we all shop at Target and Best Buy as a way of showing our support for the pro-corporate anti-worker policies of Minnesota gubernatorial candidate Tom Emmer…
Well it’s true there’s good in there and I’m glad people are finding it, but enough to recommend the books to people?
In “Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone,” a boy is born a good wizard, as distinct from a mere human or a bad wizard. As in Star Wars, there is a good side and a Dark Side. Harry and his little friends on the good side wish for and strive to produce pain and suffering for the children and adults on the bad side. When they discover that the bad wizards are planning to steal the Sorcerer’s Stone and take over the world (or at least the world of wizards), they avoid passing this news along to the head good wizard or making the danger public. When the danger is near, they tell themselves that they should have warned the head good wizard long ago but that now he won’t believe them. When the danger is present and a confrontation is guaranteed, they send word to the guy, and the book offers no explanation of why he should believe them at that moment but not a little while earlier. In fact, it goes on to suggest that he would have believed them all along because he knew everything all along and was allowing the conflict to happen because putting the world at risk was a price worth paying for allowing Harry a chance to avenge his parents’ murder by the head bad wizard.
So Harry fights the bad wizards and is nearly killed. He murders a lesser bad wizard, and the head one gets away to fight another war in another book. Harry is a hero and heads home to happily torture a bad human with some spells he’s learned to cast. Meanwhile, those who ignored the danger and contributed to it are almost thoughtlessly forgiven. The only ones not forgiven — the possibility is truly unthinkable — are those on the Dark Side. How you get on one side or the other in this book, as in our wars, is usually a matter of birth. No one on the Dark Side can be better understood, communicated with, lived with in peace. At best, perhaps someone could be converted to the good side, but the Dark Side would go on existing as a hidden threat, ready to be exploited when another book needs to be sold or another president needs to be elected.
It’s been great being in Minnesota right after Target’s donations to Forward Minnesota — a right-wing independent expenditure campaign — came out.
This is what folks who were deeply troubled by the Citizens United decision have been predicting. But many folks simply responded: “No – companies won’t want to seem political…they won’t donate.”
Well, they are donating — and Target only happens to be one of the most public cases in part because it has always tried to appeal to a more “liberal lifestyle” clientele.
They’ve been feeling the pressure and it’s not letting up. Whether it turns into a boycott or not may not matter. Target’s execs have been forces to scramble to restate their commitment to rights for gay and lesbian workers. They are feeling intense heat. And that’s because their customers are pissed.
The only bit of irony is that people are pissed about Emmer’s views on gay rights — but his economic views are just as disastrous…yet it’s harder to get regular folks take to the streets around issues like that.
The Revolution of 1800. This is #286, one of our liberal great moments. You celebrate the peaceful transition and the overcoming of factionalism. Agreed. But this was also the moment that institutionalized factions, establishing two parties, rather than three branches, as the locations of power, putting the executive who was the execute the will of the legislature in charge of roughly half of the legislature as the head of their Party. I have very mixed feelings about this, as I do about the slaveowner whose house I can see out my window.
I bet http://movetoamend.org and http://freespeechforpeople.org would like to team up with Living Liberally.
Frances Perkins may be the least known of the Great Moments. Want to talk about?
Quick point of clarification: you’re not born a good wizard or bad wizard in Harry Potter.
Some head onto certain paths because of parental upbringing and, essentially, class (most of the old money wizards are more likely to be the bad guys and to be less tolerant of wizard-human unions) though they can deviate from that path as well.
The Repeal of Prohibition … I guess that figures. Did you see Cenk from Young Turks this week on “What if they’d never ended the War on Alcohol?”
You put Howard Zinn’s masterpiece on your excellent list of great books. Did he ever participate in DL?
Are you sure? In any case they can’t deviate once Harry’s murdered them, no?
I think we need to talk about the problems of Thomas Jefferson — but we also need to talk about his very many strengths and contributions.
No surprise the Texas history book edits wanted to take him out. The guy was a bit of a radical.
Someone asked me the other day at the DL event in Minneapolis about taking into account the intentions of the founders.
One, I always like to defer to what one of our Laughing Liberally comedians says: “When people tell me that our founders would never have imagined men marrying men, I say to them, ‘You know what else our Founders never imagined: iPods.’”
Secondly, I point out that TJ believe all laws should be rewritten each generation. That usually surprises “strict constitutionalists”
That brings me to a question. Background:
I’ve been doing the Drinking Liberally thing since ’07. During that time until a couple weeks ago, I’d been labeling myself Progressive. I haven’t weighed in on FDL before here in any meaningful way until right now about the difference.
Back in early June, aimai or digby or somebody, can’t remember attribution, put up the Republican Party platform, which would be quite liberal sounding today, minus a plank or two. And the point was about “progressive” vs. “liberal” and I decided, for myself, that no way in hell did we have any liberal machine, message, etc.
And that I would style myself a “progressive” only in the sense of “progress” to frikking actually RECLAIM liberal as a viable, vibrant modus vivandi.
What are your thoughts on the 2 terms?
LINKS!
http://livingliberally.org
http://justinkrebs.com (This one for the book!)
Makes a great Nixon’s Gone Holiday gift.
yes he’s one of the greats
said you might as well wear the clothes you wore as a child as try to keep the same laws around
yet we’ve never once held a convention and have barely tweaked the constitution with only about 15 amendments since the original ones
and 2 were to ban alcohol and bring it back
he’d be outraged
Didn’t see Cenk this week but I will look up “What If They Never Ended the War on Alcohol” — it’s a great premise.
December 5th is celebrated in many places as Repeal Day. Now that’s a great holiday.
Not that I think drinking is everything. That’s why we have all manner of ways to participate in Living Liberally — and many regulars at DL drink water, soda, coffee…
You don’t need to be a drinker.
But what’s the quote that’s always attributed to Ben Franklin? Something like: “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy”
Are you on book tour?
What other plans have you got?
How do people stay connected?
sadly no – i got to see him speak in person about a month before he passed away — i wish i had been a bigger fan sooner
Where will Living Liberally be in 10 years?
Just a random thought – it would be great if there was a “Ganja Liberally” group in CA for Prop 19.
There’s been a union for everyone for over 100 years.
Industrial Workers of the World
http://www.iww.org/gu/node
Might want to get try to get your history accurate.
If you want a different union, that’s fine, but wobblies have been getting killed and imprisoned working for the rights of workers to organize for a long time. One attempt to google “labor history” would have found that out. The IWW deserves a little bit better treatment than being dismissed and forgotten due to sheer laziness.
A question for all of us here today: “Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink?” http://davidswanson.org/node/2120
Justin, THANKS for your chatting and your book and all your work to improve our world!
Thanks to FDL too!
Many people ask how I differentiate liberal and progressive — and the short answer is “I don’t.”
My connection to liberal comes from a few places.
I was raised thinking it was a fine word, a legitimate spot on the political spectrum. Of course, as I grew up, I discovered it was really vilified in many corners of our country. I still held onto it, but also knew many other folks didn’t.
Then we started Drinking Liberally — a name that only works because of the pun. So, like it or not, liberal became my brand.
Then something happened: people around the country started thanking us for reclaiming the word liberal, for being proud of it again. They said they’d wanted to come out of their closets as liberals and we were helping them.
The word hadn’t died. Far from it. People just got scared of it because of a concerted effort to demonize it for 30 years. So now it’s become more intentional to take it back.
There are people who call themselves liberals who shouldn’t feel they are alone. And if we don’t defend this word, next we’ll yield progressive and call ourselves “people-powered” or something…
So I use them both — I don’t make too much of a distinction — but that’s why I’m a proud liberal
Great answer!
Signed,
Proud Liberal
David -
I’m on tour now. Tomorrow in Convinton, Kentucky. Then Cincinnati on Tuesday and Indianapolis on Wednesday. After a week back in NYC, I’ll be on the road to Kansas City, MO; Fayetteville, AR; Oklahoma City, OK; and Lawrence, KS — four cities I’ve never visited in three states I’ve never stepped foot in.
The tour is fun. A great excuse to visit DL chapters and a great opportunity to meet local liberals all over the country.
Also, people can stay connected through justinkrebs.com to find the book, livingliberally.org to find your local chapter or find me on Facebook — or on tour — and virtually or in person, let’s hang out
As we come to the end of this lively Book Salon,
Justin, Thank you for stopping by the Lake today and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and being liberal.
David, Thank you again for Hosting this fun Book Salon.
Let us know when your new book is coming out.
Everyone, if you would like more information:
Justin’s website
David’s website
Thanks all.
Dude, come to Denver and I’ll drive you up to Wyoming.
2 locales, one trip, great beer!
Sounds good. So freelancers can see how to get involved at that site? (I can’t check it now as this salon pace is pretty rapid)
David – thank you for your thoughtful discussion and for your work.
We’ll keep the conversation going — over a beer when we can, and maybe we’ll bring in some other Harry Potter experts to weigh in.
cheers
Denver has to be on the list, of course — not until the fall, but I’ll make it there.
Thanks
Thanks, Bev – and thanks citizens of FDL.
Look forward to more lively conversation, more activism and more progress in the weeks, months, years ahead.
Keep reading liberally,
keep acting liberally,
keep living liberally
-j