As spotted by The Agonist and Alternet, the Anti-Defamation League manages to denounce, appease, and embrace anti-Muslim bigotry, all in one two-faced statement:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
Yes, the ADL actually condemned the anti-Islamic opposition to the Not-Actually-Visible-From-Ground-Zero Community Center With A Mosque Inside… and then recommended giving in to it. But wait, it gets better:
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming….
….The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain unnecessarily and that is not right.
Amazing. It’s like the ADL is pro- and anti-defamation at the same time. It denounces the right-wing bigots while using birtheresque we’re-just-saying-there-are-questions-that-need-to-be-answered weasel words to echo their talking points.
For an encore, maybe the ADL can announce that it “categorically rejects” homophobia but is mindful of the “legitimate questions” about whether gays make suitable parents or undermine military unit cohesion, and therefore recommends that they stop trying to get married or enlist in the armed forces because it upsets too many people.
Or maybe it can denounce anti-immigrant xenophobia while pointing out the “legitimate questions” about whether Hispanics are dangerous disease-carrying criminals who will steal our jobs and social services, and oh-so-gently suggest that maybe they should find another country to emigrate to.
Look, it’s very simple really: You don’t oppose bigotry by tut-tutting it and then siding with the bigots. You oppose bigotry by opposing bigotry.




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I want to like this post, but there are legitimate questions about a writer who covers one eye in his photo.
Snort! I think I used that one a long time ago. But, Gawd, you have to love ELI!!!, don’t ya?
I consider myself a victim of 9/11 too — long story, not to be shared here — and I am having pain over this Not In My Ground Zero story. The ADL? I hate to use cliches, but, Get Real!
Bravo!
Eli’s going to replace Glen Beck just as soon as he figures out how to keep both eyes tightly closed to the truth …
Eli !
Actually, I think I only called Eli out for calling his girlfriend “Dude”, I profoundly apologize, a day late and a dollar short, for. My kids started calling me Dude and I got over my big bad self.
((ELI))
ELI!
Most excellent that the accompanying photo is of flying buttresses!
I doff my tiara to you – exquisite artsnark!
Petro !
Hahahahaha. It’s really more natural than it seems…
Now that’s a big ding ef’fing Ding
KELLY!
I wish I could take credit for that being intentional, but I just liked it.
Go, Eli. It’s about time.
Are y’all taking good care of Doc Halliday ?
How did they ever let this happen ?
You remember, I am blond. Sometimes it takes me a minute. But, my heart’s in the right place. Or, at least, I try.
Have you mistaken me for a Phillies fan?
This post is anti-Semitic.
Sincerely,
Abe Foxman
Yer not ?!!
ROFL !
I think it’s called a “thought disorder”…or used to be.
Umm… New Yorker? Transplanted, but still and always a New Yorker.
I know, I know … Let’s Go Mets !
I totally have that song on MP3. Also (IIRC) two different versions of Meet The Mets.
I wish you wouldn’t say things like that. Blonds are not stupid.
Hey Eli – great post!
Thanks, egreg!
Meh. All you Met fans really should be Giants fans. It’s where you got your orange.
I have more of a soft spot for the Brooklyn Dodgers than the New York (baseball) Giants, really.
C’mon guys, bmaz just put up a trash talk thread over his place. (Giants are better than Dodgers, though).
Eli! And while we are at it, if Iran could just get out of our neighborhood. Also.
I’m opposed to mosques anywhere; and churches of any denomination, too.
Not really. I love religious architecture, actually. All of it of any denomination I’ve seen. (Admit to not having seen any megachurches, which I’d guess I’d despise, no matter where.)
Anyhoo, with my incoherent comment, …
bg! (Can I call you bg?)
I was formerly bg in the olden FDL days. Then somehow, I got messed up in a transition. I prefer bg, frankly.
All this in the shadow of the Shirley Sherrod story, to boot…
Eli!
Did anybody really think that the bigoted and Zionist ADL would really be fair when it comes to Muslims?
Excellent, that works better for me too.
I call it Borg Ambition.
“We oppose bigotry in all forms, but there are legitimate questions about whether Ms. Sherrod hates white people that need to be answered, so it’s probably best to fire her just to be on the safe side.”
Oh, just to add some local flavor, I went to Friday services at the mosque at 96th & Third about a year after 9/11. Not for wimmen, who (like Jewist tradition) are kept in a balcony). Nonetheless, and despite its modern architecture (I think its Saudi Wahhabi financed, but never bothered to verify that), is an extremely beautiful building with a very kewl experience to be inside. Shades or green & gray green walls & carpeting, with clerestory windows.
In another, purely local, but interesting irrelevant detail, it turns out that Manhattan is 45 degrees rotated from N-S orientation. Therefore, in order to get the mosque to face east toward Mecca, they had to get a zoning variance to put the building at a 45 degree angle on the building plot. Apparently that was not an easy battle for them.
Margaret!
It’s the “but we totally oppose bigotry” spin that they try to put on it that bothers me the most. Well, or the actual bigotry…
I did a Flickr search for “mosque” to find a graphic for this post, and there were a *lot* of breathtaking photos to choose from.
I thought it best to let a slew of approving posts get posted before I disagreed.
As you know Eli,the closest mosque before this proposed new mosque is the Masjid Manhattan, on Warren Street, four blocks north of the World Trade Center.
This proposed mosque is to be two blocks away – and many feel it is in your face to have Saudi money building it after the terrorists of 9/11 where Saudi muslims killing for religious reasons (non-muslims – the US – out of Saudi Arabia).
The Anti-defemation leaque statement seems quite reasonable to me. I’d love to see another mosque built in NYC – indeed any structure for those of faith – Christain, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, diest, Buddist, whatever – is always welcome. But there are many rights in play here – and there is no need to offend anyone unless the goal is “in your face”.
What, now?
Yep, trying to have it both ways. I’ve never understood people who think bigotry is bad….unless you hate (insert group here) of course because THEY deserve it.
Two blocks away and out of line-of-sight, funded by a moderate Muslim society is “in your face”? The artist’s rendition I saw didn’t look anything like a mosque, either.
So a non-mosque-looking building that’s not visible from Ground Zero, funded by moderate Muslims, is a provocation?
Yep. Best to take each experience fwiw. I tried to do that in my short comments, as I had a very mixed experience. But ‘mixed’ is not totally negative. Mixed in this particular experience was a wonderful combination of learning, aesthetic absorption, and intellectual caution about who was paying for & inspiring this building and what was coming out of it, and what that meant for the future of the U.S. and wider interests.
Yes
And it’s not a provocation to send it elsewhere?
Personally, I find all religious structures to be in your face and offensive. Particularly any of the thousands of opulent structures in the midst of destitution and poverty stricken areas. The point is that it’s pure, unvarnished intolerance to say it’s okay to build a church or a synagogue there but not a mosque.
A mosque in the neighborhood of the 9-11 tragedy could be considered a good thing by the Muslim community and the community at large. To paint a mosque as a bad thing is discriminatory.
To quote Juan Cole:
So you would be against all high culture, I suppose, because most of it, whether painting, music, ballet, architecture, etc., all comes at the expense of food for the poor.
That would be a silly assumption. Painting, music, theater, and etc aren’t supported by exploiting peoples’ fear of death but that’s exactly what religion does. How many people do you suppose who can’t pay for food or proper shelter still tithe to the church because they think it’s their duty? Now how many do you suppose tithe to the local art museum because they think that will get them into heaven? Your example is not analogous.
I’m wondering how many people who think this mosque is a provocation would think the same about a church being built there if the terrorists had been Basque rebels or some other group whose members happen to be Christian? They did this because they are violent extremists, not because they are Muslims. Islam is an excuse just like Christianity was Hitler’s excuse, the Inquisition’s excuse, the Crusaders’ excuse and et cetera.
Oh, eCAHN, but faith will save you. The poor need not want.
I think perhaps this is the sad part of building the church, perhaps another take on Margaret’s remark.
51 and 52 are interesting comments.
I think that there is an aspect of the attraction to theatre, music, art and your sweet aunt, etc. that is definitely connected to our fear of nothingness. But, I’m an artist not a scientist. YMMV.
Almost all the high culture of the middle ages & renaissance was supported by an autocratic RC church or autocratic rulers. While lotsa real peeps were starving. So that is not relevant?
So is 56.
If the ADL had been in the South during the 1950s, they would have decried racism but felt offended that the government in Washington was trying to take their Southern way of life (with its Jim Crow laws) away from them.
Anderson is putting the Boot to Sheriff Arpaio …
I would bet that the ADL and it’s followers manage to stop the mosque from being built. Lots of power and money there.
“We condemn racism in the strongest possible terms, but there are legitimate questions about whether Dr. King is actually a Soviet agent working to undermine American democracy…”
I hate to break this to you but we aren’t in the Middle Ages. What can I do about the people who were crushed in the Middle Ages? How is any of that relevant to a mosque in contemporary times? I don’t know what you’re getting at. I am, (or was), an art student so I know a bit about the history. I’m sorry that you found my comment offensive or whatever but you seem determined to misunderstand my meaning.
The Mosque will be built, cuz Bin Laden’s is POTUS !
Twain !
LOL. Hey, Petro. How goes it?
Didn’t find your comment offensive in any way. Just trying to probe, in the light of history, why you typed this
Beer outta my nose … the idjit on CNN just said that 9/11 was carried out by immigrants.
Would the world be a better place if Pope Julius II had fed and clothed the poor with the money he payed Michael Angelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?
I guess it might have been in 1512.
I typed it because that’s the way I feel. Their architecture is sometimes beautiful, I thoroughly agree but the idea they represent is offensive to me. I think I get where we’re missing each other. Yep, I believe that a lot of good and beautiful things have been created by churches but I’m still appalled at their cost.
I’ll remind you that I was roundly criticized on this blog once for pointing out that I liked the art of Salvador Dali in spite of his fascist leanings. I guess none of us can be perfect. :)
The country had gone crazy. I was just thinking that we didn’t say that Timothy McVeigh and his friend blew the building in Oklahoma because they were white and Christian. We know they were filled with hate and did a horrible thing because they could and wanted to.
WooHoo! Wish I could be so clear and concise. EXACTLY! How many people would have objected if a church had been built on the site of the Murrah building?
begin rant/
I’m often tempted to make a religion or dogmatic philosophy out of High Art.
Take Beethoven, 9th symphony for example. One can be moved to tears, and feel a certain exultation of spirit listening to it, especially the 4th movement.
That’s the part that is just terrifically wonderful about humans. From time to time, such feelings are articulated and replicated. And repeatable!
The problem is the dogma that would arise if Beethoven or High Art were to actually become dogmatic. Things that were not Beethoven or High Art but which articulated a sense of exultation or humanity would be shunned by the dogmatists and driven into the shadows.
So I resist.
The skin of the dogmatists just simply isn’t worth wearing when there are too many fabulous and faulted “wonderfullnesses” in the realm of being human.
Take that which exalts you, and drink deep of it. Laugh at the rest I say.
And none of that gives a badge of “You can’t disagree with me because I’m a person of faith” a pass. Because no one gives a damn what one believes except oneself.
People only care about, and measure, what you actually do.
/rant
Brilliant, Kelly !
Now go sit near the Piano and make a song outta this rant … *g*
Lovely. The 9th is my favorite.
So you’re saying you prefer the smorgasbord to the fixed menu, then.
Very excellent rant.
But no one’s said “Amen” yet…
Yeah, rijstaffle for me please, but hold the damn anchovies.
I exalt and I laugh. And, I love the way you over think things. Glad I’m not alone.
A large AMEN!
My biggest problem with buffets is that I always eat too much because I have to sample everything. Repeat visits are easier because I know what the good stuff is.
The Arts and Music…the elixir of life!
One’s relationship with the divine is so very personal. How can anyone really tell what makes another get a tear? I think that’s one of the challenges of art. And, to some, architecture is art. Just like words, drama, humor.
Or Werner von Braun. here was a guy who thought Robert Goddard was the most brilliant man who ever lived and all he wanted to do was design rockets to go into space. He belonged to a rocketeering society but when it folded up he began to design rockets for the German Army because under the terms of the Armistice, Germans couldn’t have heavy artillery. This was before the Nazis were more than a fevered dream. Then Hitler came to power and he started a horrible, atrocious war. Von Braun was a pacifist and certainly wasn’t anti Semitic but he was stuck by then. What the Fascists did to Europe can never be justified or excused but it cannot be denied that the man did some incredible science while on Hitler’s payroll.
The ADL, to which I once gave generously, would have you believe that it’s title applies not just to Jews, but to people of any race, color or religion. After this, it has some work to do.
I wonder who will be considered the great artists of these enigmatic times?
It’s been a long time since I remember the ADL caring much for anybody but their own faith.
This incident makes their name a joke.
Yes it is very personal, including the definition of divine.
Part of it, to me anyways, is there’s this divide that gets trumped up by dogma, which is so often developed in history, but then forgotten, but a divide remains.
Example; the nuns of the order of the RC Order of the BVM (Blessed Virgin Mary) wear a 15th century garment, virtually indistinguishable from a burkah, and follow the Book of Prayer, which is a 5 times per day call to prayer, rung in by bells.
That’s hardly distinguishable from orthodox Muslim women in many countries. And there’s this “badge” of “I’m a person of faith, and may not be questioned, nor disagreed with” for either set of humans.
I just think that’s bizzarre.
Attention Deficit Liasons.
That’s an easy one …
Thanks for the explanation. In my comments I was trying to convey my mixed feelings about what I think is a radical Islamist built building with all the trappings of an antifeminist structure with my thorough enjoyment of the architecture itself. Your Dali example clarifies your position for me. (I didn’t know about Dali’s fascist background, so would evaluate him on artistic merit while noting his other aspects.) Those are the difficult evaluations we, as complicated humans, must come to grips with.
I get your point about the cost, but my trade-off would be different from yours. To be blatant: many more humans would have lived if the cost of feudal & renaissance art & architecture had been used to feed the peeps instead of going into art & architecture, but also huge numbers of currently & previously living humans have been inspired by the extant history that the super rich have created (not to mention the still existing medieval old towns of middle class humans remain in Europe).
Not that I think the current super rich in the U.S. have or ever will create anything that anyone will ever consider worth saving or inspiring.
YMMV.
It seems like all of the great artists these days are employed doing paperback covers and eye catching ads. It’s sad. :(
Yeah, sometimes it takes me awhile. I saw belatedly what you were driving at. No harm, no foul. :)
I think something can be divine without the dogma. For example, Darling, that tiara is just Divine! Or, maybe there is dogma there. I dunno.
Thin Places – those places or events in life where the dividing line between the holy and the ordinary is very thin… to the point that the ordinary becomes holy and the holy becomes ordinary.
But, then, we have the whole, what’s holy conversation. Still, I think it can exist without any dogma.
Nice to be able to sort it out.
You know why I love this place ? Both your comments, demi’s incredible insights, Kelly’s comments, Eli’s wit … incredible !
Come on Lurkers, hit that donate button and support FDL !
Excellent choice Petro…
That’s sweet to say Petro but let’s not forget your knowledgeable analysis while we’re spooning around the compliments. :)
Definitely! :)
I didn’t want to start another fight by choosing this dood …
Shite…i sincerely hope thats not the sum total of this era’s art…that indeed would be sad!
Good Lard, it’s now a smooch buffet!
SmoocheySmoocheySmooches!
Aye Kelly…ya such a buttercup ya know…
SMOOCH Kelly! And Smooch, smooch!
Petro!! Bowing to you sir!
Do you think this would be an easier world to live in if we had more catma than dogma? That’s it for me. I’ve hit the wall.
Here’s one for Phyllis Schlafly
Aww shoot, I’m just fillin’ in until ratfood shows up …
heh, Buttercup…
Back later for LLN; belch needs some attention. Poor dude had his knee treatment again today, and I need to make him a new ice pack.
Laterz!
Better either than magma….
Nah! no fights…the dood has taken a long ride and still tickin…
see ya then
swopa has late nite upstairs
Har har. That’s my girl. See you later, hon.
*Sending positive vibes to Belch’s knee*
Ah! the Zappa…RIP!
:)
Besides, if you’d gone native, wouldn’t you be a Pirates fan now?
So, are the ADL a bunch of pompous imbeciles? I’m not saying they are, mind you, but people want to know.
For the record, I hope the Phillies are taking good care of him. Without him, the Phils are about one bad Jamie Moyer pitch away from having a rotation that couldn’t stay above .500 .
Right. But the best that can be said is that I don’t particularly dislike the Pirates and Steelers most of the time.
What gets me is that we forget (and therefore fail to mention) that Muslims were murdered on 9/11 at Ground Zero, along with Christians, and Jews, and agnostics, and atheists, and Hindus, and Buddhists, and probably other religions since there are so many on the face of this planet.
Muslim families lost family members, loved ones, including maybe even among the children that died, due to some radical religious nuts on a suicide mission hijacking and flying airplanes into buildings.
So, even though I view myself as a Christian, a liberal who finds compatibility with liberal-leaning factions in other religions (and among the non-religious) that embrace and advocate peace and non-violence, I don’t see this Muslim Community Center as a problem.
Wasn’t there a Christian church at the foot of the World Trade Centers? Is it still there or was it torn down due to damage? Where’s the closest synagogue to Ground Zero? Hindu temple? Buddhist temple? I’m just asking this because I don’t view their location as being any more important than this Muslim center’s location.
A building is just a building. It’s the message inside that is the only thing of importance. Peace? Acceptance? Tolerance? Forgiveness? Sharing? Caring? Love? Or hate, bigotry, inciting people to violence, preaching inequality instead of equality, teaching that some are less loved than those teaching that they are more loved by God? And in my view it doesn’t matter which religion (or those of no religion at all) teach the former or latter. “By their fruits ye shall know them,” and a building or it’s location has nothing to do with this.
Oy, the Humanity! An Israeli Jew Takes on the ADL
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2010/07/oy-the-humanity-an-israeli-jew-takes-on-the-adl/
Mondoweiss.
Kelly–buttresses are on the outside of a gothic building, and ‘flying’ means that there is daylight between most of the outside wall and the supporting buttress (see Notre Dame de Paris for exquisite examples). What shows in the photo are essentially groins, where vaults meet inside the space (cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groin_vault). In gothic architecture there likely is a more specialized name.
I love it
We are now saying that certain religions can’t build near places because some are offended
I wonder if Catholics will be fine if we start denying them the ability to build Churches in certain places?