Welcome Richard D. Wolff, and Host, William K. Black.
[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]
Dr. Richard D. Wolff is a prominent Marxist economist who teaches at U. Mass and The New School. The book is composed of scores of short essays he did for Monthly Review beginning in 2005. The publicity blurb sent to potential reviewers states that Dr. Wolff “predicted the economic meltdown years ago.” The book does not contain specific predictions of the meltdown beyond the omnipresent Marxist prediction that capitalism is inherently unstable. Dr. Wolff’s articles take note of the bubble and nonprime assets in the articles in the book after the collapse of the bubble and after the crisis in nonprime assets were obvious. Readers interested in the scholars that predicted the specific crisis should consult Jamie Galbraith’s article.
Dr. Wolff’s emphasis is explaining his overall Marxist critique of capitalism’s defects. The articles can be read easily by the general reader. No economic expertise is required and Dr. Wolff writes in English without the Marxist jargon that non-specialists find confusing.
Dr. Wolff’s Theses
Capitalism inherently causes crises. The crisis manifested itself in finance, but was not caused by finance. The crisis arose on Main Street. Capitalism creates inherent class conflicts (though Dr. Wolff is known for rejecting a deterministic view of class). Capitalists seize surplus value that is produced by the workers. In the U.S., rising productivity allowed over 150 years of increasing wages. After 1970, while productivity continued to grow, real wages stopped increasing. Income inequality, which had long been increasing, soared. As the elites grew ever more dominant economically, their political hegemony also soared.
Capitalism never worked in the U.S. Developments that other scholars have praised, e.g., the massive increase in U.S. food production, brought corporate farming, pollution, and excessive energy use. The “things” we have (houses, cars, TVs, computers, Getc.) evidence our morally (and eventually financially) bankrupt consumerism. The consumerism leads us to lead empty lives overwhelmed by stress and physical exhaustion.
As real wages stalled and consumerism increased, Americans sought to maintain their standard of living by going ever deeper into debt. This created an opportunity for finance capitalists to obtain extreme profits and meant that the loans to the financially overstressed borrowers would eventually default. Dr. Wolff also appears to see this process as inflating bubbles.
Dr. Wolff’s solution is to avoid what he sees as “the left’s” strategy failures during the Great Depression. The left sought to save capitalism through regulatory rather than destroy it. Regulation, however, can never restrain capitalism because capitalism provides the capitalists with the riches that allow them to defeat regulation. The capitalists began by evading FDR’s New Deal reforms. As they gained increased power and discredited the government and regulation the capitalists were able to use deregulation, privatization, and desupervision to destroy regulation. Capitalism always trumps regulation. The solution is for workers to own the businesses and elect the board of directors.
His views on Women and Immigrants
Dr. Wolff returns repeatedly to claims about women and immigrants. First, capitalists induced women and immigrants to enter the U.S. workforce in order to reduce wages. (The rabidly anti-immigrant VDare site includes a blog by a rabidly anti-Marxist writer enthusing about Dr. Wolff’s claims that Capitalists caused high immigration as a means of reducing wages.) Second, the entry of women into the workforce has had terrible effects on the family.
With their living standards and relative social positions thus threatened, most American families sent more household members out to work. *** The resulting exhaustion, interpersonal tensions, and financial anxieties yielded crises of divorce, alienation, depression, drug dependence, and abuse (p. 9; see also p. 41).
[Americans] simply kept on buying more commodities. To pay for them, workers took on more hours of labor and borrowed vast sums. Worker exhaustion rose accordingly, likewise the number of family members sent out to work (straining “family values” to the breaking point) (p. 53).
By outsourcing jobs overseas to take advantage of cheaper wages, by drawing US women into the labor force, by substituting computers and other machines for workers, and by bringing in low-wage immigrants, employers drove down their employees’ wages even as they produced more commodities for sale (p. 75).
June Carbone (UMKC Law) is my spouse of nearly 31 years, and she is a family law scholar. Firedoglake regulars may recall that she and Naomi Cahn recently authored Red Families v. Blue Families. June authored an earlier book, From Partners to Parents, which refuted Gary Becker’s criticisms of the increased entry of women into the paid workforce. Becker claimed that the entry of women into the paid workforce reduced specialization. Husbands specialized in men’s work (for which they got paid) and wives “specialized” in working inside the home (for which they did not get paid). Becker claimed this “specialization” was essential to maximizing efficiency. He recommended against providing advanced educational skills to females. Yep, he thought Yemen was the model of economic efficiency. The Nobel committee was particularly enamored of Becker’s nonsense about women. I am channeling June and Naomi’s findings in my comments about the increasing entry of women into the paid workforce.
The data contradict Dr. Wolff’s claims that the increasing entry of women into the paid workforce is destroying families. He is correct that Americans work extremely hard. But “wives” is not the relevant category. Women are a majority of college graduates. Large numbers of American women have college degrees. Women with college degrees overwhelmingly wish to work in the paid workforce and are happy to be employed. They generally find such work fulfilling. While the hours they work have increased materially, the divorce rate for couples that are college graduates has fallen sharply and is now back to the rate in 1960. Indeed, this pattern is one of the reasons why income inequality has increased. Getting married, and staying married, to a fellow college graduate is an excellent strategy for building income and wealth. Some of these couples become “Capitalists,” or petit bourgeois but many form the core of the salaried middle class and upper-middle class.
The divorce rate surged in the late 1950s and 1960s even as women that had worked during World War II withdrew (or were pushed) out of the paid workforce. This surge in the divorce rate occurred even though the average workweek was lower in the 1950s and 1960s than shortly before the Great Recession even though female paid employment (as a percentage of total employment) fell immediately after the war.
Women with more “traditional” values who do not wish to be in the paid workforce but are married to men that cannot make enough money to support them are extremely unhappy. They are much more prone to divorce.
Employers (and unions) generally had to be dragged screaming and kicking into hiring women for jobs that were traditionally viewed as male. That’s why Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was critical to opening up such jobs. Title VII was opposed by unions and employers.
But there are two more general problems with Dr. Wolff’s opposition to the increased entry of women into the paid workforce. More workers do not necessarily mean lower wages. The entry of workers can expand the economy and increase wages. One of America’s key economic, political, and social advantages over Yemen is this nation’s support for women’s rights. And the obvious question: what exactly does Dr. Wolff propose to do convince more women to leave the paid workplace? If the answer is that all workers should receive much higher wages, the question still arises: why should women be the ones to leave the paid workplace?
Even Marxists are unduly Kind to the “Control Frauds”
Dr. Wolff believes that “Capitalists” and the inherent nature of capitalism caused the crisis. He argues that it was non-financial corporations that drove the crisis. Wall Street became so large only because Main Street reduced workers’ wages and fed consumerism. The combination caused workers to borrow heavily to fund their purchases, which enriched financial firms.
Dr. Wolff’s articles vary in what they stress, but his dominant theme is that financial firms acted as they did during the crisis as a means of enriching the Capitalists (shareholders). Investors and lenders underestimated the risk of lending to subprime borrowers (p. 64) due to “irrational capitalist exuberance” (p. 85). This led to a bubble. When the bubble collapsed it caused the Great Recession. Dr. Wolff repeatedly states that all of this was extremely profitable to the shareholders of financial firms.
But elsewhere, Dr. Wolff notes that all of this was exceptionally unprofitable for investors and creditors. Indeed, fears of fraudulently overvalued assets were so great that massive financial firms collapsed. Trust dissolved and markets “froze” (p. 85). He notes that because financial firms knew about the true risks of nonprime mortgages and collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) (financial derivatives whose value depends on nonprime mortgages), they deliberately created a Gresham’s dynamic (when bad ethics produces a competitive advantage the ethical are driven from the marketplace) by placing the rating agencies in competition to secure grotesquely inflated (AAA) ratings (pp. 76-77, 115).
By late 2006, “liar’s loans” became roughly 40% of new mortgage originations in the U.S. Every study shows that liar’s loans are endemically fraudulent. A lender that does not underwrite a major loan creates intense “adverse selection.” The expected value of lending under conditions of adverse selection is negative. The lender will lose money. The FBI began warning that there was an “epidemic” of mortgage fraud in September 2004. The FBI estimates that 80% of the losses from mortgage fraud occur when lender personnel are involved in the fraud. The question that we must answer is why enormous sections of one of the largest industries in the world would lend under conditions that were certain to create severe losses?
The CEOs of nonprime lending specialists did not act to benefit “Capitalists” (shareholders). They acted to benefit themselves – and the best way to do that was to harm the capitalists (the shareholders and the creditors). Dr. Wolff misses this central fact.
No conspiracy was needed to produce the real estate bubble, nor its current, devastating implosion. Just the normal workings of profit-driven markets sufficed to do the job (p. 115).
How quickly we forget – in the prior paragraph Dr. Wolff writes:
Profit-driven mortgage brokers greatly increased the number of home mortgages. Profit-driven banks saw huge fees in converting these mortgages into securities and selling them to investors in financial markets around the world. To do that, the banks entered the market for security ratings and paid the providers of these, corporations like Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s, to supply high ratings. The rating companies complied and made huge profits in that market.
This paragraph describes multiple conspiracies. He states that Moody’s and S&P sold their reputation. The issuers put them in competition and paid “huge profits” to the rating agencies as long as they were willing to rate paper that wasn’t even single “C” as pristine “AAA.” We need to distinguish between real and fictional profits and honest and fraudulent profits. The mortgage brokers are a prime example of the need for clarity. They were the ones that typically found the nonprime applicants for the fraudulent nonprime lenders. In the typical case the loan broker aided and abetted the lender’s fraud in four ways. It was the broker’s personnel that knew the lender’s lending requirements (which the lender wished to evade, but appear to comply with). The broker typically put his personnel on a salary based primarily on commissions tied to loan volume – with no requirement for loan quality. Such a compensation system creates strong incentives for the broker to engage in mortgage fraud. These loans create fictional accounting profits and real losses. They only produce profits if the people originating the fraudulent loans are able to sell them. They can only sell them if they can induce the rating agencies to give AAA ratings to CDOs backed by endemically fraudulent loans. If they are able to sell the fraudulent loans by suborning professionals, then they obtain a real, but fraudulent, profit.
Theoclassical economists made the naïve claim that “accounting control fraud” was impossible under capitalism. “Control fraud” occurs when the individuals that control seemingly legitimate entities use them as a “weapon” to defraud. Theoclassical economists’ creed was that markets were inherently “efficient.” Markets cannot be efficient if they allow material fraud. Therefore, theoclassical economists knew that inerrant markets prevented accounting control fraud.
Financial control frauds’ “weapon of choice” is accounting. Financial regulators, economists, and criminologists agree that accounting control fraud is a “sure thing” for a financial firm. The title of George Akerlof and Paul Romers’s classic 1993 article captures the perverse dynamic – Looting: Bankruptcy for Profit. The recipe for a financial firm optimizing fraudulent accounting income has four ingredients:
* Grow extremely rapidly
* Make bad loans at premium yields
* Extreme leverage
* Establish only trivial loss reserves
This recipe produces guaranteed, record (fictional) profits and massive (real) losses. Modern executive compensation means that the senior executives that control the firm are guaranteed to become wealthy because of the huge, albeit fictional, profits.
The primary intended victims of accounting control fraud are the shareholders and the creditors – the capitalists. The workers may gain for several years. Control frauds seek to suborn everyone that can be helpful (by aiding the accounting fraud) or harmful (by blowing the whistle on the fraud – the primary means in the U.S. by which we discover insider fraud). Eventually, the workers may lose their jobs when the firm fails and may become merely creditors.
The crises that drove the Great Recession occurred in the financial sector because it was the most criminogenic environment available – and entry was easy. The ideal environment for accounting control fraud includes these factors (which characterize the finance industry):
* ineffective regulation and criminal justice
* assets that lack readily verifiable market values
* extreme leverage
* extreme growth
* extreme executive compensation based on short-term reported profits.
Control fraud epidemics can hyper-inflate financial bubbles, which allows loan losses to be hidden through refinancing.
There are vital differences between the actual crisis and Marxist theory. The fact that the managers that controlled the nonprime lenders defrauded the capitalists (shareholders and creditors) and other capitalist firms to whom they sold liar’s loans on the basis of fraudulent “reps and warranties” is not consistent with classic Marxist theory. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the nonprime specialty lenders failed because they made loans under conditions of extreme “adverse selection” (which produces a negative “expected value” of lending) is contrary to the fundamental Marxist theory that assumes that firms maximize real profits for the benefits of the capitalists by usurping “surplus” created by (and justly owing to) the workers. Accounting control fraud produced the ultimate violation of theoclassical economics dogma in nonprime lending. The genius of voluntary market transactions is supposed to be that both the seller and buyer are made better off (Pareto optimal). But the typical nonprime loan made in 2006 made both principals – the corporation (and its shareholders) that lent the money and the borrower – worse off. The “unfaithful agents” (the officers, appraisers, auditors, rating agencies, and attorneys) were enriched. This systematically perverse result is supposed to be impossible under capitalism’s precepts, but it is also not explained by Marxist theories. Capitalism’s most elite CEOs defrauded the capitalists – and were then bailed out by the government. The control frauds pretend to support capitalism, but that too is a fraud. They actually exemplify crony capitalism.
Marxists may find reading modern white-collar criminologists’ research useful. White-collar criminologists take class seriously. Indeed, Sutherland’s classic definition of white-collar crime drove Conservatives berserk because it stressed high social status. Control fraud theory focuses on the most elite frauds and explains how they use their status and economic power to manipulate regulators and legislators. Much of this work would support key aspects of Dr. Wolff’s theories.
Control fraud, however, is not unique to capitalism. It is common in the public sector. In some nations (kleptocracies) it is the norm in the public sector. It exists in the non-profit sector (such as the Baptist Foundation of Arizona – a form of “affinity fraud” targeting the faithful) and in for-profit firms that are owned in mutual (v. shareholder) form. It exists in unions. In some nations, NGOs are often governed by frauds. The people that control the seemingly legitimate entity often use that control to benefit themselves at the expense of the entity and those the entity is supposed to benefit. I have discussed here only accounting control fraud, where the intended victims are the creditors and shareholders. There are anti-customer control frauds that maim and kill or cheat the consumer, anti-public control frauds (illegal disposal of toxic waste, cartels, and tax fraud), and anti-worker control frauds that steal wages or endanger lives.
[William K. Black is Associate Professor of Economics and Law at University of Missouri – Kansas City.]



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Richard, Welcome to the Lake.
Bill, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Thanks for inviting me. I look forward to the Salon and the discussion it invites.
Rick Wolff
Richard,
Let’s start out with your primary thesis and one that is distinct from many other views about the cause of the crisis. You emphasize that this is a crisis that originated on “Main Street” — even though it blew up first on “Wall Street.” Could you explain this briefly?
The crisis begins in the 1970s, when real wages stopped their long (1820-1970) historic rise in the US. Today’s average real wage (money wage adjusted to account for changing prices) equals its level in the later 1970s. Meanwhile workers’ productivity kept rising. In short, workers produced ever more for their employers to sell while receiving the same real wage from them. So profits soared for employers, large and small, on Main Street as well as Wall Street. Workers facing flat wages worked more hours and borrowed ever more as their only ways to realize the American dream. Business leaders everywhere raked in rising revenues that they used to pump up their own pay, to merge and acquire businesses, and to speculate themselves or hire hedge funds to do it for them. Rising mass worker debt finally collided with ever more risky speculative investments to explode the whole financial system when loans could not be repaid and that devalued the investments based on them. Finance was where the system blew. But the roots of the crisis lie in the changing wage/profit relation across the economy: a systemic problem of capitalist class structures. That’s why focusing on finance and financial reform fails to address the roots of this crisis – nor prevent the next one.
Good afternoon Richard and Bill and welcome to FDL this afternoon.
Richard, I have not had an opportunity to read your book but do have a question and forgive me if you answered it in your book, but is there any chance the recently passed “FinReg” bill will do anything to stop the banksters from stealing us blind again in the next five years?
To be blunt, I dont think so. It will cost banks and hedge funds extra fees, but the past shows that regulations are just obstacles for financial (and non financial corporations). They have every incentive and the resources (from their profits) to evade, weaken or destroy them. Thats what happened to most of the New Deal reforms and regulations passed in the wake of the Great Depression. We should have learned the lesson of the limits of regulation by now.
Rick,
Social scientists find that class has substantial predictive power in a wide range of settings. Why do neo-classical economists tend to ignore class or even display virulent antagonism to any investigation of the role of class in economics. You are well known for moving away from the overly deterministic use of class by many classical Marxist economists, but your book returns repeatedly to role of class in causing the long-term failures of capitalism. You argue that the sharp rise in inequality and exploitation of the working class began in the 1970s and has persisted. What are the key changes in the 1970s that caused this break, and why is essential that we take class seriously?
I was going to raise the issue of fraud but I see Bill Black does so in his intro. Also the MOTU didn’t discredit government regulation. They simply pushed their neo-Ayn Randian view that markets are most efficient when they self-regulate. Concomitantly, however, they bought the political process to ensure that there was regulation only just that it favored them.
Hello, all! I just have a feeling that what i have now is what i’ll have for quite some time, so it’s a matter of mending and maintaining clothes, tools, etc.
The other side of the deconstruction of regulations from the moment they are passed is the development of theories that regulation is bad and unregulated markets supremely efficient. Efficient market theories – very old – get recirculated as the needed accompaniment of deregulation
The key change in the 1970s was the end of over a century of rising real wages in the US. Computer automation and the export/outsourcing of jobs reduce then the demand for workers in the US, while the movement of women and immigrants into paid labor increased the supply of workers. Employers therefore no longer needed to raise real wages and didn’t. Meanwhile, workers’ productivity kept rising. Flat wages plus rising productivity mean exploding net revenues for employers and the resulting widening of income and wealth inequality which has been going on now for over a generation in the US. Class differences in all their forms and expressions produced both the overindebted exhausted working class of today and the over-extended speculation with and for profits that produced the crisis. We need to take these class changes seriously because without addressing them, we will not prevent the next crisis and may not even be able to exit soon from this one.
Hi Rick,
I was wondering if you address the relationship between class and family. I used to argue that the women’s movement was very much in the interests of the capitalism. Today, I think the issues have to be separated by class. College educated women have acquired a great deal more autonomy not only because higher income gives them more independence, but because they marry later and have the independence to insist on men who share their values.
Working class women, on the other hand, would prefer to work less and to be married to men better able to support them. Tom Frank’s book, What’s the Matter with Kansas, notes the irony that these women are more upset by the change in family values that expects them to work than they are about the economic changes that make it harder for them to find men who can support them.
Any thoughts on this?
You could as easily say it started with Reagan or the Fed. Reagan attacked unions, cut regulations, cut taxes on the rich, and deficit spent. Meanwhile the Fed raised rates to stamp out wage growth which it saw as inherently inflationary. This began a decades long maldistribution of wealth upwards, and a series of financial scandals, scams, and bubbles. So while the Fed saw wage growth as an evil, it never saw any of the repeated wealth destruction in the paper economy this way.
I think many Americans share a gut feeling that we are in for a long crisis (like the last one of this magnitude that lasted from 1929 to 1939) and are hunkering down. This is a wisdom that the Wall Street booster crowd disparages. Yet it makes the best cautionary sense. My only hope is that it is eventually matched by an attitude of gathering with others to fight back against shifting the costs of capitalism’s crises onto the mass of people.
FYI, the WSJ has a new article quoting a defense lawyer — without factual support, analysis, or any critical response — making the claim that no elites are going to jail because no elites engaged in fraud in this crisis. I’ve written the writers and dumped a lot of facts and analytics explaining why this is nonsense.
Rick,
When it comes to discussing what needs to be done to limit future crises you note your grave disappointment that non-Marxist reformers stress improving regulation. You argue that as long as capitalism is dominant the capitalists will have the financial and political means to defeat regulation. Your analysis led to the conviction that worker ownership and governance of business is essential to any effective reform.
Since you seem to see women’s employment/success as being part of the problem, what sort of role to see to be meaningful for women?
Its a complex relation for sure. Basically I think that the strains and conflicts of class structures on the job always reverberated and impacted household and family life. The household is the site of production organized in different ways from that in the enterprise, yet they are interdependent. When men’s wages stopped rising in the 1970s, it transformed families and households. Not the least cost of the last thirty years of frozen wages and financial speculation has been the transformation of families and households and the yearning after “family values.”
I have been predicting depression in 2011 for the last 18 months. At these salons on economic issues, I usually ask writer and host what they see coming.
It’s not clear from your description of the “main street” causes why this happened. To what do you attribute the change, in which worker productivity is increasing, but real wages are stagnant – since I take it you’re arguing that had not been the case before 1970. Something more than “this is what happens with capitalism” is needed to explain this.
I do not claim that women’s entry into paid labor is bad, or a problem, or causes family break-up, etc. Such cause and effect simplicities never work. The crisis of US families over recent decades has many roots and causes – like any major social phenomenon. My point was modest: the famous “double shift” – adding paid employment to women’s household work – put added strains on families and households already under unmanageable pressures. Of course, women should be free to seek fulfilling paid employment, but such freedom will be very difficult for all concerned if other social changes and adjustments don’t offset that freedom’s costly social effects. Perhaps an historical parallel can help make the point: when slaves were freed after the US civil war, they often suffered catastrophic economic privations. That is not an argument against freeing slaves; it is an argument for other social changes to disconnect freedom for slaves from unnecessary and massive suffering.
I agree, but it transformation differs markedly by class. College grads continue to have pretty traditional families; it’s working class families that have been transformed. And one of the consequences is lower levels of educational achievement, partly because they is less public support and partly because of differential rates of reproduction.
Welcome Bill & Richard.
In the early 1970′s, globalization wasn’t even a glint in Tom Friedman’s jaundiced eye, a race to the bottom in wage cost containment.
What started as a dissociation between productive work and financial rewards bore bitter fruit when the former middle class lifestyle could only be maintained though terminally cancerous household debt overloads.
With the union of the two towers on Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, how do you see the future for working people in America?
A note to Salon participants:
Rick also has a Masters degree in history and has great expertise in U.S. economic history.
By all means. Real wages stopped rising because the long-standing labor shortages afflicting US capitalism ended. There were four key reasons: the computer was a major automation driver and employers started massive movements of jobs out of the US. These two reasons cut demand for workers. At the same time, women entered the paid labor force en masse and new waves of immigrants arrived. These two reasons increased labor supplies. In these circumstances, employers no longer had to raise wages as they had before and the stunning wage stagnation of the last 30 years set in. Meanwhile, that same computer boosted labor productivity. No mystery here.
Your proposition makes a lot of sense to me.
I worked with large numbers young of what I would call upper middle class families the sixties through the nineties and observed from the perspective of a mental health professional just what you describe. Not to pat myself on the back because the results are so tragic. But I did see all the efforts made by these families to keep up a lifestyle consistent with their maturing periods, mostly by working more hours, extra hours and wives entering and remaining working. While as you point out real wages flattened and with out sourcing fell. I just knew they would eventually run out of income and stop buying.
I personally could buy stylish clothes, eat good food out etc when I was younger. Now it is Wal Mart and Target and really bad wine.
It does seem Wall Street failed when it ran out of people with money to plunder.
Actually, the double shift is also a class issue. Hours of employment used to be about the same by class in the sixties; today the more income someone has, the more hours they tend to work. In addition, while middle class men married to women with careers help out the most, all men help more with childcare. The real issue in the divorce studies is the mismatch between men and women, with working class women now more likely to hold higher status jobs than their partners and more likely than middle class women to want husbands who earn more.
Unions have long histories of corruption, and this from a strong supporter of unions. Corruption will occur no matter who is in control. The key is make sure there is always enough political pressure and costs associated with it to minimize it. As our system now stands, our elites are incentivized to loot. Even if they get caught, as with the Goldman 2007 Abacus AC 1, no one goes to jail, no one admits wrongdoing, a fine insignificant in terms of overall operations is paid, and the system of crony casino capitalism goes merrily sailing on.
I see the need to face the facts you summarize. We have a 50 decline in labor union membership and an atrohpy of the left generally. Even in deep crisis, capitalism plods on despite the suffering imposed on the millions in the US losing jobs and homes over the last two and a half years. It is long past due for a massive rethinking and reorganization of labor and the left as the sole means to avoid the American people finding three fourths of their number sinking steadily to the standards of living previously imagined to afflict only “poor countries.”
I was born in Detroit and grew up largely in Dearborn. The U.S. was exceptionally dominant econmically after World War II because of our growth and the enormous destruction in Europe. We also had very cheap energy. UAW workers earned extremely high wages relative to a not very scarce skill. By the 1970s, international competition among automobile manufacturers was already a very big deal.
Wall Street, like Main Street, exploited the American Dream romance. Having taught workers for generations that American is exceptional, that here each generation lives better than the one before, that hard work pays, the system suddenly stopped paying the rising wages to make the American Dream accessible. Yet American parents had promised nothing less to their kids and had measured their own worth in terms of what they could buy. Of course, for such a culture as ours, if wages stopped buying, we would work ever more hours, send ever more family members out to work, and borrow….to realize that dream. There is a deep cruelty in the economic history of the last 30 years.
And progressive women are appalled at the lack of attention to women’s issues. When members of Congress proposed mandating coverage of contraception in the health care bill, for example, it got no publicity, but when Stupak yelled “abortion,” the right rallied and Obama caved.
Richard-
Do you have an opinion on the effect of corporate “personhood” on the inability of regulators to deter corruption?
In your book, do you set how that reorganization can happen? What it may look like? If not in your book, can you tell us now? Here at FDL that is a big part of the conversation…how to empower the left.
There’s something I used to call the Liesure Glut, but have more recently started calling the Progress Paradox, wherein there’s an inherent contradiction between our individual microeconomic incentives and our macroeconomic stability. We need fewer and fewer people in order to produce the same amount of “stuff” through advancements in technology and processes, but in order to keep demand for “stuff” up people need to have stable revenue (employment, etc).
This arrangement works out fine when there are broad new markets growing at the tail end of the current cycle of commoditization, and the trajectory of people between economic functions is reasonably optimal. Except that as markets advance, this condition appears to become worse, not better. Meaning that newer markets require both fewer people, and often of new and specific specializations, making re-employment a rarer and rarer condition. The trajectory gets worse and worse. This makes sense, as any path of specialization is going to take you deeper into a subject rather than provide the broader base required for more rapid re-training. In essence, not only are people becoming less and less necessary, but they’re being forced into a kind of deepening planned obsolescence in order to engage in new markets at all.
These emerging market gaps are where financialization seems to thrive. I watched it at the end of the equities bubble in the late 90′s early 00′s. There was no significant new market to invest in that could employ, or required, huge amounts of resources, and what few new markets did exist required very specialized skills and training (biotech, data-mining, grid-computing, etc). The financial markets just started throwing money at everything, there were bubbles in various asset and commodity markets, and then things finally “stuck” in real-estate/land-development. As soon as that happened, all the money flooded into that market, there was almost no diversity in the drivers of growth.
But back to my earlier poing about the Progress Paradox. I’m for somewhat of a lack of how to deal with this. On the one hand there’s the obvious argument against modernization, as surely the development of the plow put a lot of livestock and farmhands out of work, and we can move that metaphor forward through time as well. Excepting that’s hardly a very satisfying solution. I’m quite stumped on the matter. Have you previously considered this problem from this perspective, and if so, what prescriptions were you able to contrive to deal with it, and if not, what is your take on it now?
I ask because you’ve obviously put a lot of thought into the inherent conflicts and incentives in capitalism, and I suspect this one didn’t escape you. Thanks!
Indeed, and so was competition in a growing list of goods that the US had formerly been the sole or major producer of. And how did US capitalists respond to the growing competition? Two major ways: first, they demanded an end to the US welfare state including cutting taxes, reducing government emnployment, cutting social programs. That meant more and more people had to look instead to private sector jobs driving down private sector wages. Just what those coroporations wanted. Second, those corporations threatened to move jobs out of the US to places with cheaper wages, lower taxes, no envrionmental or worker-protection laws, etc. And they often made good on those threats. Hence the long-term decline you point to represents how a capitalist economy can and often does respond to competition.
This would be about the time credit cards became cool instead of reviled.
That would let you live a life like your wages are going up when they’re not.
So map out what’s ahead. Where do the current situation and the forces you see drive it take us next? Is there something predictable about where we are headed — and is it reversible?
One of my bad predictive jokes over the past five years — The airline industry has been disintermediated for Americans travelling to the third world. It’s here … now … with no airfare.
After the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, are you really asserting that organized labor can break the atomic bonds between Wall Street, Pennsylvania Avenue & K Street?
The melding of corporations and government power is usually referred to as fascism. Does this word enter into your analysis? Personally, I describe our system as corporate kleptocracy because corporate government is just a means to an end, and the end that I see is looting.
I don’t see how a Marxist analysis advances things that much. You talk class. I talk elites. The difference is that even under a Marxist system you would still have elites and so the possibility of looting. My use of elites is non-ideological. I look at our elites, political, financial, industrial, academic, and media and my issue is not their ideology but their looting and failure in basic governance.
Yes, and they moved jobs within the U.S. — towards states hostile to unions. This created the “rustbelt.”
I saw its results many many times as I worked with these families, good people feeling failed if they could not afford the dream. Children neglected by fathers on airplanes all week and mothers who had no choice but to work. No wonder we find the extraordinary sense of disconnection in the younger generations. No wonder we no longer know how to organize for lack of family and community experience.
Could you discuss alienation, particularly as to how it separates workers from each other in capitalist systems? Do you think this concept is useful in understanding why so many workers support Republican economic policies that are inimical to workers?
There is some of that in the book, but basically I think we are talking about the democratization of production, democracy inside the enterprise. After all, if we revere democracy in the community, why not make it the law of the land inside enterprises where we spend so much of our adult lives? And there are already, in past and present, all sorts of models for enterprises in which the workers function as also their own boards of directors. Over 100,000 workers do that now in the famous Mondrago communities of northern Spain. Every year for 30 years, software engineers in Silicon Valley leave their jobs at big capitalist corporations and gather in groups of 20-50 with their laptops insomeone’s garage. From Monday to Thursday they continue to make software programs; but friday they gather and spend the day deciding what, where and how to produce and what to do with their profits. They are, in sum, their own board of directors. No hierarchy, no board of directors chosen by and responsible to “major shareholders”….none of that. These folks have voted against the old capitalist structure with their feet and their lives. They point in a direction we should be talking much more about.
Thank you…looks like hope,it seems.
I’d be cautious about this. How people connect varies over time. We may be “Bowling Alone”, but our kids are far more interconnected with their network of friends than we were.
I agree that it will be interesting to see whether younger generations use the interconnections to aid folks they don’t personally know.
I do think alienation is a major and useful concept to analyze the US today. The stagnation of wages, the resulting turn of American families to having more family members doing more paid labor, the exhaustion of that plus the anxiety of debts mounting beyond what the family could afford. All this made Americans a lot less sociable. The wonderful book Bowling Alone showed how pervasive this became. We became alienated from one another and from community action and from solidarity with our fellow citizens. All organizations of working people atrophied which only facilitated the capitalist agendas. This alienation has to be confronted and overcome as part of a basic set of changes.
It might be worth mentioning here that over 15,000 mostly young people gathered in Detroit a couple of weeks ago in the US Social Forum to spend days discussing exactly how to organize, mobilize, and change this society. There are some very positive straws in the wind. And finally, after a long period of deafening silence, the unions and others have decided to mount a major march on Washington in October for jobs
Those are great notions. I think this should apply to any publicly traded corporation.
Since the urge to gamble seems inherent in the human race I could go for making provisions for truly privately funded businesses such as the gaming industry, basketball players and Lindsey Lohan. :-)
Exactly!
Of course theory and anecdotal observation must be open to caution. But I believe I see some pretty disturbing signs as to the nature of connection and concept of community and community empowerment. But when one is observing those early in life it is just a slice of a very large cake yet to be made.
I wonder how folks respond to my book’s efforts to document the systemic nature of this crisis, its roots in capitalism structures of production, its not being in any way limited to finance, etc.
That’s because bowling country clubs are for oxymorons.
This brings up one of the big problems I have with “free-trade.” In almost every condition we’ve erected trade agreements which liberalize capital movement, but do essentially nothing (sometimes less than nothing) to liberalize labor movement. The people are captive to their domestic markets, while the capital is able to chase opportunity (typically represented as the newest most oppressed and desperate labor force) all over the world.
There have been a lot of calls to protectionism like we saw in the interwar era, which were extremely devastating to global economic stability, and this has been a real cause for concern for me. I’d like to see us move forward rather than backward on the issue, and start a very fundamental, very real conversation on the limits of labor mobility (immigration limitations, cultural preference, mortality, lagging economic repurposing, etc) and get them included into policy. Your thoughts?
Rick,
Why is it that a Nobel Prize winner in Economics, George Akerlof, having written an article in 1993 with Paul Romer (Looting: Bankruptcy for Profit) explaining how the senior officers that control corporations use accounting fraud to loot firms — and how this causes financial bubbles to hyper-inflate — could have his work almost totally ignored by theoclassical economists despite having been proven correct by two massive crises?
I have not read your book as yet but I agree completely in your analysis
The more I have understood how capitalism works it seems obvious that it is as the game Monopoly presents it. I can philosophize long and boringly on how I see its impact on people’s happiness and how they live.
Perhaps the American people are in a state of shock. The promise of prosperity seems broken; peace is fading in favor of an endless, vague “war on terror”; and everywhere cutbacks loom threatening everything from future social security benefits to school facilities for children and young people. Perhaps it takes a while to gather the momentum for a real push back. It took some time after the 1929 depression hit, too. And we are not so well organized to push back. Compare Europe, where Greece has already had several general strikes; Spain and Portugal too; France is now gearing up (all six of its national union federations united) for a massive general strike on September 7 with an all-Europe action set for Sept 29. These are unprecedented push backs that are also straws in the wind.
How would this crisis be possible in the presence of a well run, well regulated financial sector? Where would all the credit and subsequent debt have come from?
Bill, I could provide you with quite a list of such articles. In economics those of us who study, even a little, the history of economic thought can only marvel at how many times an idea can be published before the conditions are right for one of such publications to be noticed, circulated and then become part of “the science.”
Well, we have to talk about labor in both nations — not just the U.S. One of the reasons why China’s exceptional growth rates will not be sustained is that Chinese wages have risen sharply and some businesses are already outsourcing production from China. But wages have risen in China and India for hundreds of millions of workers.
Hi Rick,
Don’t you think we also need to focus on the way capitalist markets work when trying to view alternatives? I say this because I suspect that the success of a democratic coop might be at the expense of another coop of both relate to each other competitively via the market. In other words, what would happen if, for example, coops compete against each other via the market? In this sense we could view the market as a cultural institution that could shape those working within a democratic firm into not caring about others…
One of my thoughts on this is a restructuring of the corporation. I consider it in either of two forms, either all corporations must be structured as co-ops/profit-shares, or all corporations would essentially be reformed into 501(c)(3)’s.
It has frequently struck me that the public gets a pretty bad deal in the bargain between handing over liability protection without any guarantee that corporations will consider the public trust as a primary operational imperative for having been granted that gift by the public trust.
This of course doesn’t mitigate the ability of some enterprise to run amok, but at least that it not be doing so with liability protection for its leadership.
I really appreciate the analysis & specifics. So often when one is hearing of being afraid of “socialism” or arguing for “free enterprise”, there is little to no discussion of the consequences.
From the Macro Macro perspective. To predicate survival on the basis of constant growth is to trust the future to a cancer.
While I am not sure what exactly is meant by well run, I do think that the logic and pressures of the capitalist system (the profit urge, the concern with market share, competition, etc.) shape how finance works. It is not some independent part of the economy. It is far more shaped by the basic labor-capital relation than it shapes that relation. Hence finance always responds to the rest of the economy under the pressures of profit, competition etc. Bankers do what they must and that turns out to generate precisely the activities that contribute to recurrent crises. And in that they replicate what non-financial corporations likewise do.
Absolutely!
Consider this condition, capital movement between say the U.S. and China becomes liberalized and their respective markets opened up, including the labor markets. Meaning that anyone from either country could emigrate to the other to engage in productive activity. Essentially open immigration. This superficially solves the problem of imbalances between capital and labor movement that creates the exploitive conditions both abroad and at home.
The issue obviously being that labor is still at significant disadvantage. A Dollar doesn’t miss its friends and family when it moves from one bank account to another, it also is equally adept at using livestock as it is at using iron forging machinery, then of course there’s the universal problem of mortality. A Dollar doesn’t have only a limited window of productivity, doesn’t starve to death if it’s not being used for a while, and requires a near-zero amount of time to “relearn” new economic functions.
Given that condition it seems first like even completely open immigration wouldn’t solve the problem, and further that a condition of fully liberalized capital movement between markets will always produce labor exploitation, because labor is always going to be naturally captive comparatively.
Does that make any sense?
If you look at China’s control of its currency and European moves to deflate, protectionism is back. It’s just being done through currency rates.
We need to distinguish between “liability protection for its leadership” and limited liability. They’re not the same. Limited liability, originally, protected all shareholders from being liable to the firm’s creditors. The “leadership” (the firm’s officers and directors) wants “liability protection” from the shareholders. One of the truly distressing developments is that Delaware law (and most large corporations are incorporated in Delaware) now allows corporations to eliminate the officers’ and directors’ fiduciary duty of care to the shareholders. Many large corporations (including Lehman) eliminated the duty of care. This makes it far more difficult for shareholders win civil lawsuits against officers and directors.
Quite right, but as a professional economist all my life, I am determined to break from our profession’s habit of obsessive focus on markets. They are an institution, a mechanism for distributing resources and products alongside many other mechanisms of such distribution. In most of the history of the world, we have not used markets for distribution. We rather had chiefs or councils of elders or religious figures or community collectives arrange such distributions. Sure, democratically reorganized production units could interact in terms of distribution of resources and outputs via markets, but they might alternatively utilize other mechanisms (say rationing systems like those used in the US during World War 2 when the market was suspended). Plato and Aristotle long ago debated markets and concluded that they were very imperfect mechanisms that needed to be hedged with all sorts of limits. exceptions, and controls if their positive qualities were not to be overwhelmed by their negative qualities. I would hope and assume that a democratic reorganization of productive enterprises would likewise devise new mixtures of market and not-market distribution mechanisms consistent with the kind of society they wanted.
The other reason that China can’t sustain its growth rates is that it has been blowing bubbles like crazy and these will all come back to haunt it. Then too if we go into depression next year, it will hit their export sector hard.
The current system of Ponzi finance, the paper economy in other words, doesn’t depend on labor to spin its profits out of thin air.
Can you expand on this some more? I’ve only recently learned about this development, and from prior experience it was already almost impossible to show standing as a shareholder to a degree necessary to bring a suit forward against the officers and/or board, so much so that I’m surprised the situation was able to be made worse.
Thanks!
BTW, I’d like you to know that reading your work almost got me to kick aside my business in IT to pursue a career as a forensic accountant. ;-)
Thanks, Bill & Richard — excellent book salon discussion today.
Probably mostly a driveby, due to conflicts in my schedule at this time. But I’ll catch up later.
(The Book Club intro appears to be a Tour de Force.)
You are correct that there is no clear fix that can be achieved via immigration (or blocking immigration). Protectionist wars are not pro-labor. They are typically pro whatever industries have the greatest political juice. I noted that I grew up in Michigan, which still produces large numbers of sugar beets. Sugar beets are not remotely competitive vis a vis sugar cane. Our sugar subidies explain the continued existence of the Michigan sugar beet industry. Some workers benefit, but all workers are consumers that eat sugar and all workers are taxpayers.
The stunning growth of Chinese industry is itself testimony to the peculiar history of US capitalism. The stagnant wages of US workers since the 1970s forced them to shift increasingly to cheaper wage goods. The Chinese could best produce these if only they could find some way to distribute those goods to a desperate US working class. An obscure Arkansas department store saw the opportunity. Thereby Walmart became China’s distributor of cheap wage goods. Walmart became the largest US private employer and a global monster while China is the industrial success story of this generation, fast becoming a world economic power. Us capitalism needs China’s cheap goods to sustain its working class’s purchasing power; China needs the US market because its indystries remain export dependent. Eveyone is locked into a system in crisis. Very dangerous as each player eyes an escape route as capitalism hits the fan.
That would make for a refreshing change, and perhaps more clear thinking. And getting rid of an obsession about the ‘GNP’, which seems to be the economic equivilent of the sound bite, would help as well.
I have a NYT “room for debate” essay that argues that China’s multiple bubbles are unsustainable. China appears to be trying to let some of the air out of these bubbles.
Is that typo or a new economic term for industrial dystrophy?
TalkingStick and I were discussing a sort of reorganization scheme that worked like this.
- Society (government) invests in the long research.
- Once a problem moves from scientific to engineering it’s turned over to private enterprise.
- The market grows, efficiencies are found, and the market moves toward commoditization.
- Once the market has become commoditized, pending a set of metrics (like demand elasticity, natural monopoly, etc.) it’s taken over again by society (government).
This seemed like a much more functional way to utilize markets, rather than relying on them to supply welfare and basic infrastructure (two things that should be ever expanding as society advances, what once was luxury can fast become necessity). Because, as we see over and over (energy, healthcare, etc.) the market incentives are exploitive.
The additional upside is that the markets that eventually get reacquired by society can also act as a flexible labor pool to smooth out the rough spots in economic cycles.
Thanks for this. I believe with the waning resources the fix cannot simply be markets or money but the whole philosophy of how we view ourselves in relation to each other and the planet. ie sustainablilty. Naomi Klein writing about the oil thing has a nice article in The Nation last week on this topic. I will try to find the link and come back at post it.
Thanks so much for this book and Salon.
Right on. As other critics have noted, the GDP is a bizarre concoction that leaves out many parts of a functioning economy (it does not count labor, eg., that done inside households, that has no market price attached publicly to it) and that has become an even more bizarre measure of a country’s economic standing. Yet what matters often much more to (and thus better measures) economic development than a GDP number is how that wealth is distributed, what institutional structures govern production, the class structures of productive enterprises, etc. Using GDP in economics has often worked like using IQ numbers…..very dangerous and easily misleading.
sorry, just a typo
No problem — it actually describes the systemic dystrophy in one word.
Fine, but for anything like this to move from discussion among the likes of us to real effectivity on the world, there have to be the social bases to “realize” such arrangements. That’s the point of focusing on a democratic reorganization of enterprise, since such worker/directors would likely be open to and have the resources to support social movement in directions such as you suggest here.
Individual shareholders, in practice, can’t effectively sue. There are two means by which shareholders can sue the officers and directors. They can bring a “derivative” action. They make a “demand” on the board of directors to sue the officers and directors (and provide the factual and analytical basis for the suit) (unless making such a demand would be obviously “futile”). The independent members of the board of directors then decide whether to bring the action. If they refuse to bring the action, the shareholders canbring an action on behalf of the corporation against the officers and directors that breached either their fiduciary duty of “loyalty” or “care.” (Assuming that the corporation has not eliminated the duty of care to the shareholders.) Shareholders can also bring class actions against the corporation alleging securities fraud (which means accounting fraud).
Always happy to welcome you to the anti-fraud community!
Here is the link to the Klein article.
http://www.thenation.com/article/36608/hole-world
This is sad but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s all about who in power is still listening too. It’s not Dr. Nouriel Roubini. It’s Greenspan and Ayn Rand.
The other day we were talking over at Digby’s blog Hullabaloo about how economic thought at the “kitchen table” level is applied to the federal government. This is an economic metaphor that works against deficit spending. “When your family doesn’t have enough money you cut back. Therefore the federal government should too.”
I think this simple metaphor needs to be actively busted. And it needs to be busted on mainstream media and attempted to be busted on right wing media.
Richard, if you attempted to bust this metaphor on any mainstream media your work would be dismissed as “Marxist” if you even got that far. MSM is still 1950′s 1960s with anything that hints of Communism.
When someone uses the kitchen table metaphor and applies it to government I say. “When your family needs more money why don’t you go to your inkjet and print more?” -they reply-”But I can’t do that.” I say, “Right, but the Federal government can.”
Or I say,’If your family budget is too stressed you should really cut back on those wars you are funding.” == “But I’m not funding any wars!”
I say “Right but the Federal government is and it can cut back there.”
I don’t read very many places where anyone actively challenges this metaphor but is is used constantly in the media.
Professor, on what projects are you working on right now with your long-time co-author, Stephen Resnick?
Can’t disagree here, hence my #62. I suspect we’ll be on our way to real progress when we start to see shifts in bigger numbers from corporations being organized around authoritarian/totalitarian structures, and start to more frequently resemble democratic/cooperative structures.
Are there any existing statistics of any repute on this issue? Like the number and scale of new co-ops, etc?
The debate between free traders and protectionists is something we need not to be taken in by. One group of capitalists stand to gain by protection (those threatened by foreign imports). Another group are threatened by protection (they need imported inputs or fear foreign retaliation that hurts their exports, etc.). These two groups of capitalists battle to win the government’s support for one side or the other. In their battles, they each seek to enlist the working people by spurious arguments about which of the two is better for workers. This is silly. Workers are hurt and helped in different ways by both policies. This is a capitalists’ struggle and far from what the workers need to focus on politically. For workers, it is the capitalist system that ought to be their object of discussion and debate to frame what is in their best interests in terms of changing the system. Distraction into intra-capitalist debates is or should be secondary. The US debates over NAFTA are a perfect case in point.
Late to the party
Since the subject matter seems to be very similar, I don’t think this is too far off topic (I apologize if it is)
But have you Mr. Black or Mr. Wolf seen the video of David Harvey’s lecture at the RSA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0
FYI: my UMKC colleague Randy Wray has very nice pieces on the UMKC economics blog (neweconomicperspectives) and New Deal 2.0 explaining why the metaphor that rightly distresses you is dangerously misleading.
Automatic stabilizers are among the very few things macroeconomists have done somewhat correctly. The hysteria about the deficit, and the even more absurd claim that the federal budget deficit means we should cut Social Security and Medicare could push us back into recession even more quickly.
On being dismissed as Marxist. Yup, that was once true, but it is not now. Over the last 16 months I have done more public speaking and media appearances than in the previous 40 years. The Marxist label simply is not the burden it used to be. I do AM and FM radio programs several times every week. My Marxist label scares ever fewer folks away; they simply dont care. Indeed, many a time I am asked what it means or what “socialism” is. Indeed, i have learned that many such questioners know next to nothing about it all (especially the younger folk), have heard Obama being called a socialist, like Obama and so are very receptive to a non-dismissive account of what socialism means.
Indeed, countless friends sent me copies.
No, sorry.
I’d like to see a few more recognize that both the Capitalist and the Communists are equally extremist on the issue of the place and role of government in the economy.
The middle ground, the place where reasonable people usually find a place to compromise is the ground of the socialists. Socialists are those who believe there is a place for some government regulation of the marketplace.
For example, everyone who believes there is a place for the Security and Exchange Commission watching over Wall Street is a socialist by definition.
Everyone that believes is some form of government regulation of economic activity is by definition a socialist. This is one thing the Tea Party is actually right on. All Democrats and most Repulicans are socialists. The only Americans who aren’t socialists are the neo-cons, and Libertarians like Ron and Rand Paul.
Everyone in the US but the extremists already are socialists.
Thanks for asking. We are working on an update of our textbook, published in 1987 by Johns Hopkins university Press and entitled Economics: Marxian vs Neoclassical. That book was used in classes up to 2010, but it needs an update. We are working on that and it will be published, likely next year, by the MIT Press. You can see other of our works by going to http://www.rdwolff.com
For those of you who want a better understanding of the kind of Marxism and Socialism I am talking about, you can take an introductory course I teach for free online at http://www.rdwolff.com/classes. There are other courses there if you are interested in learning more about the economic crisis, capitalism, and economics in general as viewed from a Marxian perspective. Marxian theory, like everything else, has changed significantly over recent decades. Old tendencies and theories within the Marxian tradition have evolved, some disappeared and new ones are now thriving; it is a vibrant tradition even as the older forms associated with a disappeared USSR fade.
Rick,
Where does your analysis point you towards in terms of the sectors/nations most likely to blow up next?
Great to hear. So when are you going to be on the Sean Hannity show? Glenn Beck? Fox and Friends?
I keed. I keed. But seriously, these are the driving forces in the name calling about Obama and socialism. Hannity wouldn’t have you on the show and would proceed to browbeat you with his skilled browbeating. He would destroy you on his show, because that is what he does. This is how economic views get supported or destroyed outside of the classroom. On talk radio and cable tv.
These are the people who stick to the current metaphors as the country drives into the dirt. Hannity has a 6.8 million dollar house in the 2nd richest county in New York, but he likes to talk about the days as a construction worker so he is JUST LIKE blue collar guys! He plays the aspiration ticket to all the listeners. “The capitalistic dream worked for me and it can for you too!”
i’ve been lurking for this discussion. i don’t have enough knowledge to add to the discussion. it’s been fascinating and i very much appreciate looking at the larger picture and how it might be changed. thank you everyone.
The big issue has become – in service of financial capitalists’ priorities – the need for cutting the recent immense deficits: austerity.“Austerity” basically means charging the costs of capitalism’s crisis to its victims. Private banks collapsed and were rescued by governments who borrowed for that purpose. Those governments’ creditors now demand guarantees that their loans will be repaid with interest. The creditors demand austerity: combinations of raising taxes and cutting government expenditures to secure the funds to be paid to creditors. Think about this: among governments’ major creditors are the same megabanks that got government bailouts. Those who helped produce the crisis and then got hugely generous government bailouts now demand austerity for the rest of the population. By the way, I develop this analysis of austerity at http://www.rdwolff.com/content/austerity-why-and-whom
OK, but why are the Hannities of the world able to pull this off without their listeners laughing at their hypocrisy? Tom Frank ereatedly emphasizes that the Democratic Party has not linked effectively with blue collar workers and that Democratic Party candidates too often do not communicate effectively with blue collar workers.
As we come to the end of this lively Book Salon,
Richard, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and economics.
Bill, Thank you for coming back and Hosting this great Book Salon.
Everyone, if you would like more information, here is
Richard’s website
Bill’s website
Thanks all.
That is fantastic news, although you should probably write an appendix called “Marxian vs Keynesian” given the whole focus on the role of the state as possibly pushing buttons and pulling levers to get us out of the crisis. On the other hand, don’t you think we need to stop saying that we are in a crisis given that capitalism, irrespective of the moment it is in the business cycle (in terms of GDP) is always victimizing people. For example, people like to celebrate China’s economy because of its growth, but right now millions of people are thrown of the lands for the sake of capital and its needs. At the end economics is itself a product of capitalism…so maybe we should stop doing “economics” in terms of using their tools to describe and understand the world.
This may surprise you. I have been on the Glenn Beck TV show. He invited me and I accepted. The topic was the exemption of rich private universities from paying taxes on their property and income. In front of 10 million viewers beck and I agreed in our opposition to such taxation. I spoke in detail about Yale University’s immiseration of New Haven by not paying property taxes there (it is the largest landowner, largest employer, and richest entity in that city). It is the fourth richest university in the US and pays no taxes to the 7th poorest city (US Census Bureau) in the US while demanding and getting the usual fire, police, public education and all other city services from that impoverished city.
Thanks everyone from another lurker. This has been very educational. I look forward to reading the book.
Do please let me know your thoughts; you can reach me via my website rdwolff.com and I would love to have your thoughts, however critical.
Bev,
Thanks for the invite to host this session.
Rick,
I enjoyed the opportunity to learn more about your views.
Thank you Lake participants!
Best,
Bill
Thank you all for the opportunity and a very stimulating afternoon.
Rick
Scarecrow is upstairs!
Republicans Get Their Groove Back — Promise to Head for Same Ole Ditch
I agree. I think the aspirational nature of Hannity’s views are very powerful. He says he was proud to be blue collar, but he definitely wanted out and he is talking to people who want to get out of that class. He never talks about his 6.8 million dollar home or that he lives in an enclave on an island with hedge fund managers and CEOs.
A friend said that the Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math. But the Lottery is about hope, and selling people hope is what people like Hannity do. A hope that the dream is still alive and you can become a millionaire. If another economic system doesn’t offer that to people in a bad situation then they might gravitate to one that does. Or a religion that does, one that offers hope after death.
I just bought a lottery ticket. Wish me luck!
“beyond the omnipresent Marxist prediction that capitalism is inherently unstable…” You mean like every seven-10 yrs? 2008, 2001, 1991, 1987, 1981, 1975, 1969, 1959, 1948, 1939, 1929, etc. back to 1823?
What a great thread. Thanks, all.
“capitalism is inherently unstable.”
Capitalism is alright, it’s those that run the system that suck.