Zed! Go Nancy, Go!

WTF? What does this mean? Did she just shaft every older American?

WTF?!?!

Is this the way to get around the BRAC style Commission Obama wanted prior to this Commission’s incarnation?

I cannot tell by the title what is going on. aaaaa.

I guess war isn’t the only thing Democrats are deathly afraid of not being hawkish enough on.

Embedded in the rule is the requirement that the House will vote on the deficit commissions’s recommendations in the lame duck session if they pass the Senate.

Yes what does this mean sorry I’m not to up on the issues lately.

It looks like it’s just a quorum call right now.
What’s the bill #, anybody know?

me, too. ???

You cannot leave a message on the Pelosi number.

House Res 1500 is what’s up this moment.

What’s the War Supplemental?

Yeah Nancy, that’s how you build a strong Democratic Party majority in the House by sneaking crap like this into bills then rush them to vote.

Pelosi is Obama’s patsy. Never doubt it.

It looks to me like HR 1500 is an attachment to HR 4899 Disaster Relief and Summer Jobs Act. War funding?

From the House.gov on the floor now site:
“H. Res. 1500:
providing for consideration of the Senate amendments to the bill ( H.R. 4899) making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2010, and for other purposes “

I would like to recall both my Zed and my misunderstanding of the move. I believed that the vote would undo the debt commission and it’s predictable recommendations.

The so-called Deficit Commission (aka Catfood Commission) headed by Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles is using the deficit as an excuse to cut Social Security amd Medicare/Medicaid. 18 members of the commission with at least fourteen of them being folks on the record that social security has to be cut to save it, even though we have been paying in more than needed since the early 80s specifically to cover the baby boomers.

Funny how they need to have at least fourteen votes for the “recommendations” the catfood commission will make.

They stole the money to pay for tax cuts for the rich now the rich don’t want to pay it back so they intend to default on government bonds being held by social security.

CSPAN feed and xscript can be found here:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/id/227338

Massive fuckery.

We’re all gonna die

415.556.4862.
That’s Pelosi’s SF Office number here in California, and you can leave a message. I did.

The commission, co-chaired by Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, is packed with members who favor the raising the retirement age to 70,

Does Nancy want to tank the election? If this passes before the election were doomed. If this is an issue during the election every poll on the Dems winning goes out the window except in oil spill states.
We might lose the rest of the country and take the South this is the exact opposite of where everyone thought we would be this election.

I take it nobody has thought about cutting war spending now to save money and just blame Bush for our defeats?
I take it Obama wants to own losing 2 wars in the history books?
I smell Rahm’s cunning mind/s

Does this mean that people who now get SS will not get it?

So all of the people who are 65 with no jobs will have to go back to work? How? There are no jobs for young people. Are they pitting the generations against each other?

Somebody’s not going to get it. it’ll at least be cut

Many also support investing 20% of the Social Security trust fund in the stock market.

The stock market is a joke right now most of the growth was in banks, insurance companies etc and their books are funny.
This smells like another bailout of the financial system

Unemployment numbers will skyrocket.

The bill HR 4899 to which HR1500 is being attached, doesn’t appear to have any war funding. HR 1500 text is not available. Not sure what you’re talking about.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h4899ih.txt.pdf

It smells like “lets pass financial reform” and convince everyone the market is safe and then it’s OK to put SS into it before it tanks again because financial reform isn’t.

So the idea is that the vote will be “mandatory” as opposed to something that Pelosi called for?

I’m a little confused.

In any case, Froomkin does the math:

The commission’s makeup and the requirement that all recommendations be approved by 14 of the 18 members make is almost foreordained that it won’t agree on much.

There are certainly enough votes on the right to block any significant tax increase proposals.

There certainly aren’t enough votes anywhere to propose deep spending cuts in the bloated military budget.

The only real question is whether there are five votes — enough to block passage — against cutting social programs, particularly Social Security.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/obamas-fiscal-commission_n_565121.html

I didn’t even know that any official deficit commission recommendations had been released.

Nancy just gave the Tea Baggers an issue to go National. Didn’t she just brag that she was going to still be House Speaker after the election?
If this passes the House I doubt that will happen. Tell me does Nancy have any GOP cover on this?
Or will the GOP use this against us in the election the Tea Baggers certainly will.

I just called the CA number and spoke to a person. Fuckery is as fuckery does.

The Speaker’s Web site for contacts

Nothing they recommend is going to pass the Senate. It’s a whitewash commission.

Yes Wallstreet needs a boost of cash to keep playing their Ponzai schemes.

Yes I would like to see their numbers.

They’re not scheduled to be released until November.

I called and left a message at the CA number.

A – We have to see what the exact Pelosi/complete text language IS before we can really have an opinion

B – If it’s so that it’s for a lame duck session vote, then whatever comes out of the catfood commission in December is what they’d be voting on.

So A is the critical thing for right now. Where the hell is the damn text?

How can they invest 20% of nothing. They are telling us there is not enough money now.

“H. Res. 1500:
providing for consideration of the Senate amendments to the bill ( H.R. 4899) making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2010, and for other purposes ”

Are you saying that the Senate is going to make amendments to a summer jobs bill that reduces Social Security benefits and moves Social Security funds to Wall Street? I don’t believe it.

The rich own more now of America’s wealth than they have at anytime since the Great Depression but we can’t tax them?
America won WW2 and had a great economy when we had the highest tax rates on the wealthy. Government spends on things that build the economy roads, schools etc Yachts and $100 pairs of blue jeans don’t build an economy.

Could this mean that maybe she is forcing a vote to happen during the lame duck session when presumably we will still have the votes to vote it down that we may not have later? (*scratches head*)

Pelosi supporting the back door gutting of SS is old news. Fergawdsake she is the freaking speaker of the House, of course she is for this. Democrats view this as a way to say “we’re helpless” a la “60 votes” cry. The truth is that they are embarrassed to say their true position which is: we need to make Wall St happy, or we won’t get their money!

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/84125-senior-democrats-follow-pelosis-lead-in-warming-to-debt-commission

Typical corporatists–always gambling with other people’s money.

Nancy is done as Speaker she has compromised to much this time going along to get along makes you a good follower not a great Leader.

Interesting

I imagine a lot of lame duck congressmen and women will delight to send a big FU to the voters who kicked them out in November

“This user’s mailbox is full.”

Just a wag — trying to figure out what this gains.

HR 4899 provides $5B for disaster relief, $600M for summer jobs and $174,000 to Joyce Murtha. I ask again, are you saying Pelosi is slipping a rule in that will allow reduction of SS into a bill like this?

My bad, stream here:

http://cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx

Looks like the rule just passed.

No – what’s in the post is that the rule, embedded in the legislation that they’re voting on tonight, states that if the Senate votes on the Catfood Commissions recommendations due this December, that the House will then vote on it too.

Just like how BRAC worked IIRC.

Lots of people are paying into social security. I tend to think this is a good move on Nancy’s part without having any details. Imagine how fast the party voting against SS would be out of power and heros the saviors would be…

“Change You CAN Believe In”

Is this a great country or what?

Not sure what it gains as it stands now Nancy I bet is counting on cushy corporate board jobs as her reward.

An underhanded last-minute thing like this would only come directly from the White House. I wonder why Obama has an “obsession” with screwing over Social Security.

“H. Res. 1500:
providing for consideration of the Senate amendments to the bill ( H.R. 4899) making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2010, and for other purposes ”

HR 4899 is a $6B bill.

Are you saying the Senate amendments to a $6B bill are going to contain reductions to SS? I don’t believe it.

Hey, TCU! $100 jeans? I’ll bet that number’s pretty low since the last time the likes of us perused the retailers…

Man, they best not mess with the ol’ SS. After all of the other shit that has come fallen down about my (our) head and shoulders, that’s pretty dangerous. There’re plenty of us “older folks” who can muster an outrage of consequence!

(Note to NSA: Not a threat.)

Buy stock in Friskies!

Important to add that note!

Imagine how fast the party voting against SS would be out of power and heros the saviors would be…

This works but it would work better if the vote were before the election. As it stands now the perception that she supports this hurts us unless she has a great explanation.

That’s not what I said.

Any SS vote would be, I guess now will be taken by the House in DECEMBER. DECEMBER DECEMBER DECEMBER. If after the Senate votes on the Catfood Commisions recommendations.

IN DECEMBER.

Hey, TCU! $100 jeans? I’ll bet that number’s pretty low since the last time the likes of us perused the retailers…

Fine I’m not up on fashion trends:)

I think they’re saying raise the retirement age on people under 45 today. So full benefits start at 67 for people over 45 in 2010, and retirement age moves up to 70 for people under 45 in 2010.

Then I am going to have see the full text of HR 1500 because the description of it says it is to consider Senate amendments to HR 4899, a $6B disaster relief and summer jobs bill for funding through Sep 30, 2010. I have no idea what the rest of you think you know that says anything about Deficit Commission votes in DECEMBER DECEMBER DECEMBER.

Man, they best not mess with the ol’ SS. After all of the other shit that has come fallen down about my (our) head and shoulders, that’s pretty dangerous. There’re plenty of us “older folks” who can muster an outrage of consequence!

If this passes the Left has to Break from Obama or we lose Cred. Even Koz can’t spin this this.

Then good bye youth vote Obama.

The only thing left to do now is disrupt and discredit the Catfood Commission.

The youth don’t think about retirement age. 70 looks the same as 65 when you are 25 or even 35.

Someone please tell me how a resolution to consider amendments to a $6B bill for funding through Sep 30, 2010 has anything to do with the Deficit Commission.

Gen X doesn’t believe they will get Social Security anyway.

It could mean lower turnout in 2012 though.

Left message with staffer in SF.

Jist: Sneaky to put something in in lame duck session. Leave SS alone, enough in assets in trust find, and is its Fed Gov ash flow that’s the issue, tax people above $250,000, or lift SS tax ceiling.

Putting things like this late in the day in a non-related bill, if not dishonest, raise the appearance of being completely dishonest.

Staffer state my statement was recorded for later review (aka: she listened and the message goes into the bit bucket).

Return Republics to power and make that belief a reality.

Apparently there was a House Rules change that was part of the vote. The report says that if the Senate votes on entitlement reform then the House will be obligated to old a vote too.

It’s somewhat obscure how this operates, but the report seems plausible and FDL is good at digging out obscure inside baseball stuff done by our Congress.

Hi Petro I’ve been busy I’m in Kenosha Wis now been working on a farm. No immigrant labor 3 whites surprisingly working farm work. Getting in shape though and a tan the Pacific NW has no sun.

If I understand correctly, tonight’s vote was just a procedural matter.

It makes it automatic that the House will vote on the commission’s recommendations if they pass the Senate.

Without tonight’s rule, the Speaker would have to bring it to the floor in order for there to be a vote. With the rule, there MUST be a vote if the Senate passes it.

Can anyone tell me if I’m understanding this correctly??

Not that it matters at all, I’ll say again, as I’ve said previously, this is a DONE DEAL. Social Security will be cut, and it will be cut by a Democratic Congress with a Democratic President.

Hope you all remember that when you’re voting in November.

I will.

Assholes.

I suppose I can’t get too excited about raising the full SS retirement age a little, since I was eligible for full benefits at 66-something and am just retiring now at 67-1/2. I think for most people inching up the full benefits age isn’t awful considering we all live and work longer. However, I would truly like to see them remove the earnings cap so that everyone pays into SS no matter their income. Just my $0.02.

Do we know for certain that the Catfood Commission is going to recommend cutting SS and raising the age for eligibility? No.

But 14 of the 18 members of the catfood commission are on record as saying they favor these steps. And surprise, the commission needs fourteen of eighteen votes to make recommendations.

This vote today says that the House has to accept the commission recommendations, in their entirety when presented in December, after the election, so apparently they are thinking they can claim to be powerless in all this while they go about destroying SS in order to save the tax cuts for the rich Social Security.

thanks. I will be on the lookout for the full text of HR 1500.

Bad economy everyone focuses on issues besides what if anything has Obama given the Youth Vote as a reason to vote for him?
I think they will stay home this election.

Agreed still losing SS officially has to hurt.

I wonder why Obama has an “obsession” with screwing over Social Security.

Uh, he’s what we call a real asshole.

He’s already completely turned off the under 30′s

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/election-2009-where-have-all-the-young-voters-gone.html

It’s changing the rules after the fact and makes any Social Security promises look like they could be arbitrarily changed at any time.

Is she trying to sneak through some damn conniving, confusing maneuver right before a holiday weekend? Whenever the bastards try and sneak something past us, they always do it late on Friday or right before a recess. Whatever it is, I’m sure we’re in for a dry fucking.

But yet no fancy maneuver for unemployment benefits. I have no intention of buying a goddamn thing until the bastards pass an extension. Please join me.

Thank you for this number. I called her SF office and chewed on the munchkin who answered the phone.

The Righty Blogs will up their level of death threats I expect more shooting.

Here is the text of the budget resolution (starts at the bottom of page 5):

http://www.rules.house.gov/111/AmndmentsSubmitted/hr4899/hres1493_hr4849.pdf

I thought “resolutions” were non-binding, so this may not be as bad as it seems. Awaiting more info… but if this is how they really want to play it, BRING IT ON.

And the African Americans

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/12/03/black_voters/index.html

It looks like the language is about making sure a vote happens in a LAME DUCK session so they are less likely to be held responsible for the way they vote on it. Presumably this will free them from the consequences of voting to gut Social Security. Pelosi sneaked this in at the White House’s request. This isn’t a unilateral action by Pelosi.

That is the best idea of all. If only everyone would join in. If we all stopped buying EVERYTHING, not spend a fucking penny, in less than two weeks the shit would hit the fan.

Pipedream though. Of course everyone won’t join in.

EDIT: But I’m with you Jan. I pledge not to spend a fucking penny on anything through at least the 4th of July weekend.

That was before this vote I can’t even think how much the polls will drop now.

And the Democrats

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/poll-40-dems-unlikely-or-will-not-vot

Look at the vote on rules for voting on HR1500. I think that’s where the change was made.

OFG’s comment @79 looks like a pretty good synopsis of this. The House makes rules for how a vote will procede – the war supplemental vote needed rules (no amendments, limits on debate, etc). Apparently a rule was added to require the entitlement commission vote if the Senate conducts a vote.

Can we get 41 Senators to vote against cloture so they don’t conduct a vote?

But yet no fancy maneuver for unemployment benefits. I have no intention of buying a goddamn thing until the bastards pass an extension. Please join me.

I’m not going to have much of a choice.

Start With Galbraith?

Obama loses African American voters, the Young the Left all to save the banks…who are still playing Ponzai scheme games. Investing SS is just giving the banks another stake to gamble with because this time….they swear they can’t lose.
Obama is an Enabler.

I forgot to ask, how long were you planning on not spending? If you’re going longer than the 4th of July weekend, I will too.

You and me both; I won’t be seeing another paycheck until September (but hopefully the student loans will come in a week or two before that).

You don’t use a bank?

(WiFi slow tonight, so combining responses)

Really, this is personal. Personal politics.

And thanks for the Wisconsin update. Stay in touch!

pelosi is so overrated by many on the gullible liberal left. She’s the kabuki queen …

Z

I’ll say this, though…Firedoglake may be one of the only outlets playing close attention to this now, but that’s going to change. If this comes to fruition and they come for Social Security, this is going to cause a shitstorm that’ll make the outcry over offshore drilling, the war in Afghanistan, FISA etc look like a picnic.

Social Security isn’t an ordinary issue for the Democratic party; Social Security IS the Democratic Party.

I wonder what Glen Beck will say about Nancy tonight?

I think it is Pelosi being Pelosi. This is being orchestrated out of the WH, but I think that’s Pelosi’s MO – though she gets a lot of cover because she knows the Senate will gut much of what she passes, so her role is less obvious than the Senate’s role.

Small local not one that plays with Credit Default Swap games.

Well, as I read this resolution HR 1493, p.5,
http://www.rules.house.gov/111/AmndmentsSubmitted/hr4899/hres1493_hr4849.pdf
it says if the Senate approves recommendations of the Deficit Commission, it “should” be brought to a vote in the House prior to the adjournment of the 111th Congress. Should. Not must. Not must vote the same as the Senate. Not must adopt the recommendations of the commission. I am a regular reader of FDL, but tonight I am feeling very much like an outsider who doesn’t have some insider information everyone else has that our Congress is going to fuck us.

Won’t be hard for me. I’m broke

I’ll try normally I’m coming home exhausted. But I need the exercise.

The “media” isn’t even covering this…so, i don’t expect much blowback

Pelosi has effectively given up having the House serve its constitutional function anymore

Seems like saving banks was and is a good idea. Restoring regulations is also a good idea, it just can’t be done all at once. There’s still too much power opposing that. FDR didn’t do everything at once, so why expect Obama to?

Yeah, well, it took a Democrat to lose Glass-Steagal too

it says if the Senate approves recommendations of the Deficit Commission, the House “should” be brought to a vote prior to the adjournment of the 111th Congress.

And why do you think that’s in there?

I found the same thing. I’m not positive this is the latest info though.

As Dawg was my witness, a half hour ago HuffPo had an article up on this, and it’s gone.

Mz. Hamsher, yet another grand capture.

The insanity behind all this is unbelievable.

Until we learn more, I’ve seen nothing in comments to lead me to believe much more than what you have posted.

This is a pure gutting of SS, in advance.

Pelosi has sold us out yet again, after FISA, TARP, bailouts for the rich, torture, impeachment and more.

November, despite the rhetoric, is gonna be a crash and burn as the progs withhold their votes for the dem fascists beholden to the corporations and the war machinery.

No jobs, a wasted Gulf (who knows how bad THAT will be in 2-3 years), and domestic cuts to support the masses in favor of foreign war making of no value to anyone except the corporations and the 1% elite.,

This is maddening.

We have calling Nancy Spineless for 3 or more years. Why she surrendered to Bush and YOUR SIDE ON EVERYTHING!
Nancy supports the GOP agenda on everything she’s your puppet don’t run from her now she is no Lefty, Liberal etc a Dem in name only a Corporate GOPer if there ever was one.

Well everyone here seems to think it means so our Congress can fuck us right and good after the election but before the lame ducks adjourn. It very well could mean that Pelosi doesn’t want to leave the vote to the next session of Congress in case the Dems do get the crap beat out of them in November.

If I understand correctly though, in Congreseze (new word, the language of Congress), when it says there “should” be a vote, it means there “will be a vote.”

But no, the vote doesn’t have to come out any certain way. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a vote. The problem is, I/we am/are pretty sure of how it’s going to come out.

I (and this is just ME speaking) believe they will raise the age a couple or three years, and they will cut benefits by about 25% for those not yet receiving benefits, and there MAY be an option to invest part of your SS into the stock market.

Even though Social Security hasn’t accounted for ONE PENNY of the deficit. And it wouldn’t contribute ONE PENNY to the deficit for the next at least 25 years. This is the scam of all scams.

Wait’ll Kagan gets on the supreme Court…everything will work out then…..you’ll see /s

I’m just choking on the irony that a poll of scholars saying FDR was our best president that the current administration is busily undoing all that FDR did.

Lame Duck Session or otherwise, Republican candidates will benefit from this SS Tomfuckery from the Obama, Pelosi and the Democrats and Pete Peterson’s and Alan Simpson’s Catfood Commission.

Its Political Suicide.

Not that the Republicans wouldn’t have loved to have done the same thing in Spades. Dubya Bush gave it a whirl and failed.

Raising the cap would fix SS, but the rich and the rich corporations say do not touch it. Fuck the little people instead.

See. Lower taxes make jobs. (But, where are the jobs?) Democrats believe the same myths as Repubs.

Team Obama and Pelosi to multi-national (American) corporations: “Your wish is my command”.

Until they pass the goddamn extension. I’m sick and tired of these sonofabitches declaring war on poor people. My son hasn’t had a dime in nearly a month and he has aged 5 years before my eyes.

Margaret @#98, I know you’re hurting, too, and feel so bad for you. I hope you have some family to rely on. My son would starve if it weren’t for me.
Hang in there, angel.

I sure hope you’re right. Catfood is EXPENSIVE!!!!

Thanks mocha, what a rush, the bum’s rush I guess. I am not up on House procedure, but trying to learn. What if anything is happening with the war funding request and the UC benefits extension? I don’t have a clue having nothing but dial-up here.

There’s a patch of wild berries down by the railroad tracks. In times past you could wander down alone and pick to your hearts content. Now there are whole families foraging. Good times.

Obama isn’t FDR the SS cat food commission was packed with nuts who wanted to cut SS for years. As far as the economy goes Summers played the Ponzai scheme with Harvard’s money, Geithner is clueless, and Helicopter Ben thesis is Neo Hooverism.
We need Keynes not Neo Hoovers

When I see the word “should”, I don’t interpret it to mean “must” or “shall” or “will”. Apparently I don’t understand Congressese.

It all seems so surreal, doesn’t it??

I’ve had that feeling ever since the health care debate. It’s like a never ending nightmare. The President I voted for, phone banked for, and contributed money to is the very President that will end the New Deal once and for all.

DAMNED, WHAT A NIGHTMARE.

The clause is under the “Additional Enforcement Provisions” after “Descretionary Spending Enforcement Provisions” which means it’s directly aimed at mandatory spending.

Yeah they don’t want anything too truthy sneaking in there. It would scare the “I heart Obama” crowd

You’ll have to purchase my new cookbook, “!,000 Hearty Recipes for Grass Soup.”

This brings to mind a snippet from an old Who song.

We’re the slaves of the phony leaders, breathe the air we have blown you.

Sure looks like it, don’t it. Thanks Jon for that comment, and all your work here at FDL.

A co worker at the Farm says her folks want Obama to do what FDR did. I wonder if FDR is getting a boost poll wise because of Bush and Obama?

Trojan Horse

Well, if it’s good enuff for cows…….
after the first WW many people in Europe had to eat grass…..just an interesting historical tidbit

And Blind Faith was a rock band (one of the great one’s, albeit).

Yep. That’s how it’s lookin, thanks for your comments, hoss . . .

And to deform Welfare and pass NAFTA, I get it, but my point is that Social Security is unlike any other bill or program.

If you live in a friendly neighborhood, stone soup is a very good recipe.

When starving people will eat anything, including each other.

Well, to be fair, the House has been relegated to almost insignificance now.

This is another reason why I so want the filibuster ended. It would make the House more relevant again, and the House is, as bad as it is, more representative of the people than that damned House of Lords Senate.

I don’t get this. My understanding is that she could bring it to the floor for a vote during a lame duck session without this language, no?

Fuck the banks! They pay next to no goddamn interest and make a fucking fortune off other people’s money. Also if the government don’t know you have it, they can’t get it. The rich and corporations have overseas banks, I have a hole in the ground.

Have a great weekend all!

I’m already depressed enuff, cuz that’s been evident since the discussion of Stevens’ replacement came up months ago.

By by Roe v Wade, Brown v Board of Ed, any entitlement program rulings, any equality rulings, and hello to penny postcards as lynchings of us all begin anew.

Kassandra,

Fear not, fair maiden. Oh by the way, Purina Cat Cheow or Friskies Buffet tonight?(LOL)

You too. And be safe.

And please consider joining me and Jan in boycotting EVERYTHING. Beleive it or not, if enough folks stopped buying EVERYTHING, it wouldn’t take very long at all for the message to be received. Hope you’ll consider it, and have a great weekend either way.

The Filibuster is the heart of the problem. Harry Reid and Joe Biden could make the filibuster go away tomorrow. Yes some people will say well, what if the Republicans gain power in the future. True enough. But the main point is that now is the time for elections to truly matter and for them to truly have consequences. If the people vote the GOP into power in November, then they will be getting exactly what they deserve. Time for people to explore new choices and new candidates.

Thanks Jane.

For a second consecutive day, the bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reiterated its request for additional data from Goldman, namely figures regarding the firm’s derivatives activities. And for a second consecutive day, Goldman’s top executives demurred.

“We generally do not have a derivatives business,” David Viniar, Goldman’s chief financial officer, told the panel Thursday under oath.

Goldman Sachs holds more than $49 trillion in notional derivatives contracts, making it the third-largest derivatives dealer among U.S. banks, according to first quarter figures from national bank regulator the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. The commission has found that Goldman is a party to more than 1 million different derivatives contracts, Commissioner Brooksley Born disclosed Thursday.

“We don’t separate out derivatives and cash businesses,” Viniar clarified under questioning. The derivatives units are “integrated” into the firm’s cash businesses, making it difficult for the firm to isolate its derivatives data, he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/financial-crisis-commissi_n_632345.html

My bold $49 trillion and they don’t have even 10% of that on margin if something goes wrong! I feel so safe that SS will be invested in the stock market/s

I think probably the rule keeps someone from using some procedural shenanigans to delay a vote until the next session is sworn in. If the Republicans take back the House and there is some gawdawful Deficit Reduction Bill from the Senate hanging out there, it might be better to have it voted on by a Democratic majority Congress. But apparently I am thought to be naive to believe this and the rule is there just so Pelosi, Obama and Rahm can fuck us all really hard before the session expires.

masaccio is upstairs!
Alice Rivlin, Tell This Woman She Has to Work at This Job Until She Is 70

Been like that for 10 or more years here in Sacto, along the American River.

In the 90′s I could ride my bike along the River Parkway, and pick all I could carry.

By 2000, bushes were being picked clean, 26 miles worth.

Last time I was out in the spring or fall, 4 years or more ago, not a berry to be had.

Homeless, and others, picked them clean as could be in a week, and all along thru the seasons.

Others being those that are not homeless, but live off them and any other means they can.

I wonder how much deer is poached silently we don’t hear about along that Parkway, cuz there are HERDS of deer along it.

Can’t use guns, too loud and a giveaway. But there’s a ton of meat there . . . I’ll bet SOMEONE is getting some of it to survive.

I’ve read every single comment here and I am still mightily confused as to exactly WTF is happening. Anyone have a clue yet? Besides we’re getting fucked, I take that as a given.

Sweetie, I’m already so poor I have no discretionary income to cut. So I guess that means I boycott most everything. And I made petfood for 24 years so I know catfood is actually more expensive than good nutritious foods like beans and eggs and rice. Namaste!

This ain’t neo Hooverism, this is Weimar Republic, hoss.

You and Kelly, well said.,

I can’t believe the pace of the decline of our lives as it’s happening.

It’s happening fast, real fucking fast.

LeSigh.

Pelosi, who bafflingly is held up as some kind of lefty hero by some people, shows her true colors.

Yep Hoover didn’t think to blame Jews or Hispanics like the Germans or the GOP today did.

The more I think about this, the more I don’t believe that Pelosi has done what Jane is suggesting she’s done.

It doesn’t add it: more details needed.

If you think that’s the goal of Pelosi, Obama and Rahm, then you probably spend too much time here.

I agree. Surreal and yet I still think I shoulda seen it coming.

“It’s not bad, but if only I had ONE carrot.”

HA! Happy 4th and everyone just enjoy whatever it i!s you enjoy

I’m gonna start drinking and eating grilled ribs and sausages WAY early thanks to FDL.

If I’m going down, I’m going down happy, by fucking dawg.

Perhaps Obama is trying to do a replay of Bill Clinton. Rahm was blamed for costing Clinton Congress due to NAFTA, but perhaps that was the plan all along. After midterms we’ll see Obama much more vocal on making actual good changes to right along with the decline in the Democrats ability to actually enact it. Clinton did quite well with the Republicans in charge of Congress. I think the Obama plan has been thrown way out of whack with things not going to plan (like the economy being where it is now), so I really don’t think Obama can be successful like Clinton was. Clinton as a leader and administrator far surpasses Obama – about all Obama is good at is reading a teleprompter and cutting backroom deals.

You might want to rephrase that last part.

Who you tryin to kid, mister or miss?

Yer on a big dawg blog, where truth and reality are accurately defined.

And most know what the sitch is.

Yours, is NOT where the sitch is. Not hardly.

Sigh.

So, you rule the sea AND MI-5?

Why would the Speaker of the House make a rule removing her own autonomy to bring up legislation regarding mandatory spending reduction?

Why?

about all Obama is good at is reading a teleprompter and cutting backroom deals.

You left out doing the bidding of the owning class. Clinton did the same thing, he was just better at selling it.

Yeh, my 401k is about 40% of what it was before ’08.

And down another 20% in the past 2 months.

My fund manager says, ‘Ride it out’.

I say to him, I’ll be dead before it comes back, nice ride, huh?

You’re telling me1 I’ve been on it since 1992….and watched it start going to the dawgs. Now, they’re going to take away Medicaid too.
gotta love my gubmint!

Yeah, we the people are getting fucked, again, by Pelosi, House, WH, and Senate.

And likely, those of us who will be entering retirements and depending on SS in the next ten years, are gonna be really fucked.

And those that are on it now, are likely to be fucked further, before all this is over.

Sorry for all the fuck’s, but I’m feelin JUST a tad fuckity fuck today over this news and other news.

;-)

YUP seen it coming since 2000

Exactly.

And the only answer, that I can see, is because she doesn’t want to be “responsible” for bringing it to the floor. This way, it’s automatic.

If there is another answer to Why, I too would like to hear it. There seems to be at least one defender of all that is Obama/Rahm/Pelosi here tonight. Hope he/she will clue us in on why the rule is necessary. After all, if it was a popular provision to be voted on, she would gladly be willing to bring it to the floor.

Won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer though. Hit and run one-liners are about all those defenders have left, although I still haven’t seen a one-liner yet in defense of Obama’s claim he can order the assassination of American citizens. Would love to see that one.

Really, you don’t want Rick to get jealous.

Yep. And don’t be trashing the left of FDL Pups as ignorant libs.

We all knew this shit, so don’t get cocky on us about it.

N mind yer manners, too.

;-)

Lookin ugly, and uglier, ain’t it hoss . . . .

The safety net is now the holey skein of wall street bottom slime.

David, do tell WHY you don’t think what Mz. Hamsher said, is not what you think is going down?

I’m curious, all to hell and back about your comment . . . really.

But apparently I am thought to be naive to believe this and the rule is there just so Pelosi, Obama and Rahm can fuck us all really hard before the session expires.

I’d say that part is pretty spot fucking on, doncha think?

Don’t ride it out. Whatever you lost, is gone. Sell and buy U.S. Treasuries, and when the market hits bottom, sometime at the end of 2012, sell the bonds and buy good quality stocks, like Johnson and Johnson. That’s what I’m going to do. Even in 2013, it won’t be a quick turn around, but at least you’ll be in a cash position to take advantage of a depressed market. We’re heading to a very deep economic downturn in 2011.

You must have done very poorly during the Clinton years. You are an exception.

It seems like the kind of situation where everyone wants to seem “fiscally responsible” and assumes that these recommendations will never make it through.

You’d think that some enterprising politician would want to position him/herself as the defender of the nation’s most popular government program.

I’m gonna start drinking

Let’s hear another one. :^)

I had a moment of disbelief, thinking that Pelosi couldn’t be this stupid. It passed.

Apologies.

nope

This is the kind of reporting that needs to be on the 24/7 cable news. This is what you can’t get on TV.
Thank you Jane.

Bow hunting

I don’t know anyone around here who does, but I know plenty of people back the middle part of the country who do

PS I have a recurve bow (the same as they use in Archery in the Olympics) that I just use for target shooting

But if they assumed the recommendations would never make it through, there would be no need for the rule, or at least I don’t see the need for the rule if they’re assuming it won’t pass. Pelosi could just simply refuse to bring it to the floor for the vote.

It seems to me that she’s trying to remove herself from responsibility for this thing if it does pass. She may be able to vote “No” and thus claim no responsibility for it. If she had to bring it to the floor herself, then obviously she would be looked at as responsible if it passes.

Yes and I see no future in the market unless we change course we need jobs not bankers gambling.

“I think the Obama plan has been thrown way out of whack with things not going to plan”
If Obama didn’t plan on a bad economy, then he’s beyond stupid because it was clear that G.W. pushed the economy into a deep recession or depression.

Like I said, Clinton did a much better job of making us think we were all doing OK. The oligarchy wouldn’t have had it any other way.

That was what I was trying to say above at 43.

Hey TCU,

Ninety days passed and I finally had five billable hours of work today. Unemployment took a real nose-dive. Glad to hear you got a little gig on a farm.

There’s nothing to stop the next Congress from considering any legislation, at all, that it wants to.

There isn’t. So that’s not a factual reason.

David Dayen is upstairs!
HealthCare.Gov: The New Portal That Will Fix Everything!

I’ll try to explain my thinking on this.

It was a precedural vote, stating that if the Senate passes the commission’s recommendations, then the House will vote on it. Without this procedural vote the only way it would get a vote would be if Pelosi agreed to bring it to the floor.

So imagine this. The Senate in December passes the recommendations, and it includes unpopular cuts in Social Security. Now without this vote tonight, then suddenly the spotlight would be on Pelosi. WOW, the Senate passed cuts to SS, will Pelosi bring it to the floor to get it passed?? If she does, and it passes, then she looks responsible.

This way, it comes up for a vote in the House automatically if it passes the Senate.

And I can’t really envision another reason for wanting the rule. She (and the White House) wants the rule passed so that come December, the vote will happen automatically, and it will be conducted by lots of Congress critters that are out of Congress anyway having lost in November. It’s a way of glossing over the Speaker’s responsibility, IMO.

Am I making sense?? Again, if someone has another theory as to why they would want the rule, than I’d sure love to hear it.

That’s rhetorical, right?

I’m slower n you whiz kids, but that’s rhetorical, right?

(3 count Hornito’s, 2 count Cointreu, 1 count Roses Lime NOT fresh lime)

Into iced packed tumbler, shaken, strained into iced martooney galss, quaffed.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Happy 4th to you and Belch!

I’ve had eyes on it all since Vietnam, and Nixon.

It’s advanced steadily since.

And I had to live thru 8 years of Reagan in CA before he ruined the nation.

Heh – we’re drinking Moscow Mules!

She’s doin it to shore up the ’10 erections, and the hammer and boom will lower for the cuts after that.

Simple.

She’s faking it, big time.

Thanks that sounds like better advice than my fund manager is tellin me.

But I lost half (I know, it’s gone and it ain’t comin back like a Greatful Dead song) and if I cash in early I lose another half to taxes, which leaves me with diddly squat to by TBills with . . . .

Your thoughts?

I’m gonna start grillin.

Hoss, it ain’t got nothing to do with stupidity, and you know it.

This, and all before, and all to come, is proscribed and vetted and decreed in our fascist system.

But thanks for comin back to reality, I have liked your posts and comments in the past.

Sorry I harshed a bit . . . . I’m a wee bit more frustrated today than I was when I woke up.

;-)

We disagree, thoroughly.

Buh by.

Wow…a comment that says “mind your manners”?

That’s stretching it, even for you….Hoss.

And oh by the way, I haven’t seen the roll call on this vote.

But if it plays out exactly like I’ve said above, it passes the Senate, then is automatically voted on in the House, where Pelosi can vote “no” anc claim innocence while it passes anyway, then TONIGHT’S VOTE should be noted too.

If Social Security is cut in December, then all who voted in favor of the rule TONIGHT owns it too.

Hey John, good to see yer fonts again . . .

Yeah, a good compound bow can take down a deer at 100 yards.

Likely take a HEAVY arrow, and the deer will still be mobile so you’d have to follow it till it drops.

But it’s food, and it’s silent.

I’ve sat up on the levee behind Cal Expo and the race track, and at dusk watched 30′s of deer move out of the brush into the open and disappear again behind the brush.

I tell Mary Mc, where’s there prey, there’s prey. I can’t believe we don’t have puma problems on the Am River Parkway, where the deer forage and move. And I can’t believe we don’t have cats jumping pets, or humans, on the Parkway.

I can only surmise, if cats are there, they are well fed and don’t need humans or pets. I’ve spoken with rangers who patrol, often, over the years, and they don’t break a face when I ask them about cats. Not a hint, other than their response, “We don’t get cat reports.” Standard reply. Wonder where the carcasses go.

It’s looking like a set up to deny till ’10, and afterwords, say it’s not MY fault.

Yer on it, all the way, this is a huge scam. SS is phooked, and it will be phooked MUCH more after this one phase is over.

All entitlements are phooked.

Wonder when they will come after Section 8 Housing.

Where are people going to go as their life supports erode?

I’d be quite skeptical if that’s what this vote and Pelosi’s actions mean.

Pelosi guaranteed that the commission can gut SS one step at a time, and she can say her and the dems tried their best.

You ain’t reading the throwed bones right, ma’am, IMHO.

Nope, you and more than a few others up there have made it abundantly clear this is the modus opperendi.

Ask Kelly for the correct latin spelling . . . . ;-)

Yer all over it. And I’m with ya . . . simple as The Razor Theorem.

This Wastage?

Way to screw up some top shelf vodka.

Anything with simple syrup is a waste of good booze.

Harumph.

There’s some hoss out there that is not a part of this thread.

Might I suggest is time for us both to find it?

“If Obama didn’t plan on a bad economy, then he’s beyond stupid because it was clear that G.W. pushed the economy into a deep recession or depression”

Actually what lead us here can be traced back to Clinton eliminating Glass-Stegall, but whether it’s been Bush (either one), Clinton or Obama we’ve been the United States of Goldman Sachs with the same people basically running the economy regardless of who was in the WH or what political party they were from. The corporatists thought the economy would be better by now, which was why the pivot was made away from stimulus to austerity. The catfood commission is looking increasingly ridiculous for having been set up in the first place as the economy shows that it isn’t exactly recovering and could in fact free fall. I highly doubt Obama would have set up the commission if he thought it was going to go into effect right when we’re entering a double dip recession. Clinton tried to pull this during his term in office – which he would have better luck as he had a better economy – but Monica Lewinsky did her part to save Social Security so it didn’t happen then.

Hey, we all have our good days, hoss . . . *G*

Sorry if I stepped on yer turf . . . I call’s ‘em like I see’s ‘em . . . ;-)

Que?

Obama and the Democrats are corporatist whores. This just goes to show they will go to any lengths to fulfill that agenda. We can not work with any Democrat. Everyone of them will do something like this. They have done it over and over, on healthcare, and climate change, FinReg, Guantanamo, and now this. No progressive worked with Bush. Well, folks, the Democrats are just as bad.

What we need to do is start a write in campaign for someone in Pelosi’s district, and that person should run on the slogan that Nancy Pelosi sold out the old folks. And if she could do it to them, she can, and will, do it to anybody.

All I’ve got to say is this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons

I have never heard that before. I like it. Is it yours?

Bingo! Exactly.

its never good to piss off the Really Big Guy dood

Fuck.

Really, what else can you say?

What Bush dreamed of, the Democrats make possible.

Are you fucking kidding me? Go, Nancy, go? WTF?

Aside from the fact that people voting on the recommendations of this commission will be lame ducks in many cases and, therefore, beholden to no one, they get to vote away Social Security and Medicare with no personal consequences.

The next problem with this is that Social Security/Medicare have their own taxes and are not an on-budget item, therefore, they do not contribute to the deficit except when they’re used to offset spending on illegal wars and are used to scare people in such a way that they become willing to see their retirement benefits given away to Wall Street brokers and banksters. Once again letting politicians fuck over them.

Regardless if it is sneaky or not, really doesn’t matter FDL pups and dear ones. Why do we keep beating ourselves up with our well intentioned fears and our heartbroken dreams over these asswads who NEVER gave a flying shit about us, never will change unless forced to in some dramatic and meaningful way, and KNOWINGLY with the support of other like minded asswads will continue to crush us beneath their boots because we do not possess the power to do a fuckin thing.

If we choose not to vote in November for the lesser of two evils, evil will still rule the game, because the game is all theirs, NOT ours! We are the grist for the war mill, the indentured slave mill, and the human paint for the the soon to be death panel once they can STEAL OUR SS money. This is not HYPERBOLE, this is fact…look around ya…does anyone see any significant change that is ushering in any hope.

HELL NO!

We can talk here until we are blue in the face…I sure do… as much as I can, because I feel like the people that populate this site are real and trying to sort this shit out everyday…Thank goodness for Jane and all the dedicated and spirited folks who do the heavy lifting and bring us the facts that need to be shared…but I truly feel that on the larger stage nothing is going to beneficially happen until we remember our history:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all (people) men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among (people) Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Where do we start?

Good. The fiscal commission’s recommendations should be voted on and passed. Our debt will be our downfall if we don’t get it under control now. The far left is clueless on fiscal matters and these comments are proving my point.

I’m skeptical of this, because Pelosi can count votes. She must know that the GOP plus the conservadems equals way more votes than needed to pass whatever comes out of this commission. Heck, it’s so obvious that I know it. It’s hard to think that things will be worse on this front after the new Congress takes over, no matter who’s running it.

CLUELESS!
How old are you and what made you so fuckin compassionate about your fellow citizens?

***MODNOTE: disagree with the message but do not insult the messenger***

No, actually, you’re clueless on fiscal matters. We have a sovereign currency. We can spend or not. Right now, we should spend, because not spending means more unemployment, which means less tax revenue, which means less employment.

See 1937 for an example of how that goes.

Impeach Pelosi!

It’s not off the table at my house!

http://scoobysays.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/nancy-pelosi-scary2.jpg

Taking advantage of the 2nd Amendment.

My side, huh? Does someone have to be on a “side” to criticize another “side”? And do they have to be on the opposite “side”?

Z

First they came for the old folks and I said nothing for I wasn’t old. Then they came for the……………………

Very astute analysis.

So I am assuming that you with your deep knowledge of economic matters saw the housing bubble years in advance of its bursting, expected the meltdown to follow, saw too the spike in oil prices because you had been talking and about excess speculation in futures markets for an age. And of course, you predicted the recession back in the fall of 2007. And the current bubbles in stocks and commodities. And the return to recession and depression toward which we are headed.

I assume this because some of us here, including myself, did on all of these and, if your record is not as good as ours, then the only conclusion we can draw is that you are just talking out of your ass.

No, what this means is in the last part of Jane’s post – that whatever the commission’s recommendations end up being – they have not yet made any – the House must vote up or down.
And it will be a lame duck house, meaning that any member who lost his/her re-election bid will have nothing to lose by voting to accept the recs.

IOW, if the Commission, as expected, recommends cuts in benefits, there will be an up or down vote in that lame duck session in Dec.

Jane, is my interpretation right?

Why aren’t you rioting in the streets?!?

Whining into your blogs clearly isn’t doing a damn thing to stop these thieves from stealing the social security trust fund.

Exactly, we have two parties but only one corporatist agenda. We must oppose both to oppose that agenda. There is no middle ground on this.

Stop blogging about it.

Get out in the street and start calling some general strikes.

Ah, OFG. I missed your explanation before I threw mine up; yours is better.

I think that either he’s typing his doctoral thesis on supply side depression economics into the computer as we speak, or he’s a drive by.

So…you missed my point?

Pelosi’s dad’s family has a long tradition of corrupt Baltimore politics.

Yes. If the Senate passed it, the House will give it an up-or-down-vote.

BTW I have decided to include this as a separate item in my Obama scandals list. I would like to link to the vote but am not sure which roll call number is involved (430?). I will amend, update, or cancel as events warrant.

167. On February 18, 2010 created by executive order a deficit commission stacked with anti-Social Security and Medicare ideologues (see item 136). On July 1, 2010, Speaker Nancy Pelosi in an egregiously hypocritical and backstabbing move slipped into supplemental (i.e. must pass) legislation to fund the wars a provision for an up or down vote on the committee’s recommendations. The vote would take place after the elections but before the new Congress came in and would be conditioned on the Senate first passing the recommendations. That Pelosi did this on the sly, that she did it at all, that she did it after criticizing Republicans for wanting to do something similar, stinks of cowardice, arrogance, and bad faith. Basically, she is backing Obama’s attempt to cut Social Security but doing it in such a way that she, like he, can duck responsibility for it, if and when it comes up for a vote. And it is not just about sticking it to future retirees. Deficit reduction as the country moves back into recession is a surefire recipe for depression. All in all it is an action that can be taken to exemplify Obama and the Democrats in Congress. It betrays those who elected them. It is as disastrously wrongheaded as anything Bush ever did, but it is executed with a dishonesty that Bush and the Republicans for all their malicious craziness never aspired to or thought necessary.

Yes!

Actually what lead us here can be traced back to Clinton eliminating Glass-Stegall”

nope

the bank crisis was derivative (CDO – and like mortgage backed derivatives) based and that was From th non-bank banks like Morgan Stanley and Bear Sterns and Lehman and ins folks like AIG – and all of those could not give a damn if Glass-Stegall existed or not since it did not apply to them – they took no deposits – or their operations.

Hard to pin the problem on a Clinton – Bill or Hillary. The liar loans of 2004 were the straw that broke the back, and that was all Bush non-regulation.

Probably the Richmond Fed’s Kartik Athreya unloading on economic bloggers again.

You could stop blogging about me.
You can get out in the street and start calling some general strikes

Don’t give an F..ing dime to a political party. Defund all of this corrupt political action. Just stop the money. And then vote them all out. Decide whether your tax dollars should support such ill-willed policy for hard working Americans who have been duped by bailouts of unaccountable bankers, insurance companies, wall street, health care, and unfortunately oil companies. Just remember that Obama could not find it in his heart to allow Americans cheaper imported drugs or an inexpensive public option. Pelosi was right there with him then too- dishonest and cowardly. Our public money suppors wars in Afghanistan and Iraq where our money is used to provide health care and education to bribe the governments. And these phony leaders have the nerve to try to take down standards of living for our people? They wreak of greed and ill will. We need to take more action. The Obama commission is full of slackers who prey on government (the same cast of awful characters) and want to confiscate more from people they have already burdened. Give them nothing but ridicule. Impeach Obama- he is a straw man for the corporations- it doesn’t matter about party anymore.

Are their no real Democrats left?

This just about guarantees that a Republican will be the next President – guess that doesn’t matter since we have a Republican as President now.

The roots go back to Carter and how Volcker dealt with an inflation led recession. But a lot of that was incidental to those efforts. The problem was that after the recession items like the repeal of usury laws were not rescinded. The ideological roots and the first concerted actions that led us to where we are now happened under Reagan, the deficits, union breaking, the tax cuts, the tax increases, the suppression of wage increases (beginning 30 years of wealth redistribution upward). Clinton built on this with the repeal of the Glass-Steagall (Gramm-Leach-Bliley) and yes, derivatives deregulation (the CFMA). Also under Clinton you had the liberal lending policies at the Fed under Greenspan. Bush II was notable for across the board deregulation, non-enforcement, and the removal of reserve requirements (lobbied for by Paulson while he was at Goldman) that allowed for massive leveraging.

Oh and I should point out that Glass-Steagall originally included both banks and insurance companies so the AIG angle would have been left out. Also JP Morgan, a bank, is the biggest holder of derivatives in the world. It is doubtful that much more than a fraction of those are for actual hedging purposes.

Cloture doesn’t apply here, it can’t be filibustered. It will only need 51 votes to pass.

I would suspect FDR has no more energy left to role over in his grave.

Good. The fiscal commission’s recommendations should be voted on and passed. Our debt will be our downfall if we don’t get it under control now. The far left is clueless on fiscal matters and these comments are proving my point.

I’m afraid it’s you that appear clueless, at least as Social Security relates to the deficit.

No one here (that I know of) is saying we don’t have to do anything about deficits, with the exception of the current economic crisis which could use some deficit spending.

But in terms of long term deficits, I and most here I believe, know that something must be done. Bush exploded the deficits, and we just can’t operate in the red forever and ever. Besides which, if we ever got the deficit down, the funds available for new spending or tax cuts would be enormous, because the annual amount we pay in interest exceeds the Pentagon’s budget from just a few years ago.

But what we’re having none of is the cutting of Social Security to lower this deficit. Why??? Because social security has added ZERO to the current debt, and is forecast to add ZERO for at least the next 25 years. Now talk about clueless, how clueless do you have to be to support cutting a program to reduce the deficit that didn’t even add one penny to that deficit? And the most popular government program of all! That’s clueless.

If you’re serious about cutting deficits, then I can point to examples of a half a dozen ways we can (and should) cut the deficit. But when you’re cutting the most popular government program there is in the name of deficit cutting when that program has had no effect whatsoever on the deficit, then it’s clear to me that your agenda is really to cut the New Deal programs, not to lower the deficit.

Any of us still registered as Dems should de-register NOW — with a call to your Dem reps, the Democratic National Committee, the WH. Follow up with letters. Write LTE.

It would be great if a strong, powerful blog could make this De-Register from the Democratic Party a national movement.

Obama and the Corporatists are the undoing of us all. They’re dismantling the programs of the New Deal, LBJ’s Great Society, everything the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party stands for.

Now, they’re after our meager safety nets in order to satisfy their Corporate Overlords.

To hell with them all.

Well, rule by oligarchy does meet the definition of despotism. Obama has pretty much sealed the deal. We are well beyond voting strategies now.

I have an idea – how about we sit out these elections and prepare to fight Obama and his blue dogs over saving Social Security?

By the way we shouldn’t call it a Debt Commission we should refer to it as a Cat Food Commission because that’s what it’s about – cutting Social Security to save the rich. He doesn’t care if the elderly eat cat food!

It would be great if a strong, powerful blog could make this De-Register from the Democratic Party a national movement.

I would, but all us ignorant, wrong-headed Naderites lost faith in the Democrats a LOOOOOOOOONG time ago.

That’s it, I and my wife are done with the Democrats.

No votes and no money for them EVER again, unless they become a progressive party.

Today, they are nothing but corporate sellouts.

I called Pelosi’s office and it was answered this morning by a young guy. I told him I was calling to object to Pelosi’s sliding the Debt Commissions phony recommendations into the rule on amoral war funding and he switched me directly to recording.

Everybody needs to call and state opposition. 202-225-4965 as above. Be heard.

Guess you are in good health. People with bad hearts don’t have jobs at 69.

I agree Volker using high interest rates to break the back of the oil price increase caused inflation had some incidental effects (usury laws as you noted). But Carter achieved roughly the same GDP growth as Reagan – about 3% – and without doubling the debt – but had bad PR.

Reagan indeed started the serious undermining of the working class and middle class as he speeded up the transfer of wealth to the already rich (the working man wage peaked in 1973 – but that may have been the war caused shortage of manpower).

The Clinton modification of Glass-Steagall (Gramm-Leach-Bliley)with its removal of the prohibition on bank with insurance company mergers had little effect on the derivatives problem as worldwide the hole in that market with no J P Morgan would have been filled by the other investment banks – indeed the investment banks (Morgan Stanley, etc) lead the way into this world, initially with legitimate you own an asset/you own a cash flow derivatives from securiized loans beginning in the 70′s. The one thing that is an obvious error was the signing of the GOP version of commodities deregulation which included derivatives deregulation (the CFMA as you noted).

Greenspan was indeed a major force leading to the crisis, as he refused to enforce regulations or use regulatory authority he had, while giving us the changes in inflation calculation (steak price increase is a decrease because you will switch to hamburger, developed under Clinton, and a vast expansion of the price increase doesn’t exist because you bought a better car concept developed under IKE – so hard drive size increases post Reagan meant there was no inflation). I do not know of any liberal lending policies that were caused by the Fed during the Clinton years. Sub Prime loans did not explode until a few years in under Bush and indeed had solid payment records. Fannie and Freddie were not in this market under Clinton.

I agree “Bush II was notable for across the board deregulation, non-enforcement, and the removal of reserve requirements (lobbied for by Paulson while he was at Goldman) that allowed for massive leveraging.”

Indeed the crisis is best laid at the feet of Greenspan and Bush43.

Clinton (Rubin wanting a job at Citi) has a small amount of blame for allowing the Travelers City merger via G-S modification that allowed deposit folks into the investment bank area. But some on FDL really want to dump on anything Clinton, indeed some in Congress have been convinced that G-S would have stopped the problem forgetting that too big to fail was mostly investment banking who only became deposit banks in the last few months so as to get access to the Fed window and who will likely leave that status in the next year.

To be a bit clearer, I should note that investment banking was never under G-S, and therefor there were no G-S regulations – ever – on the activities of investment banking, so restoring G-S restores no regulation that would have prevented investment banking derivative activities or liar loan securitization.

Well, yeah – but there’s still some value in remaining a Democrat in order to be able to support progressives (should there be any) in their primaries (we don’t have open primaries here in NH) and continue to receive information on what they’re up to (I remain a MoveOn member for similar reasons).

So the question is whether the symbolic gesture of unregistering is worth giving those up, I suppose.

Nice summary. You left out only the part where Nancy gets to vote against SS “reform” to affirm her liberal cred, after enabling SS’s evisceration with this move, as someone else (sorry, can’t find) already noted above.

BTW, whatever happened to Josh Marshall? He was all over Bush’s “reform” of SS, and very effective. Now he’s so busy examining everyone’s dirty underwear that he doesn’t seem to have noticed the Peterson/Clinton axis. Very good, sir. And will you be having the veal or the foie gras this evening?

3 parts Patron Silver
3 parts Grand Marnier
3 parts fresh squeezed lime

Mason jar, rocks (in winter sub tightly packed, fresh snow), stirred.

Because tomorrow we die.

Destitute.

Thanks, Nancy.

This move is surprising how?

Pelosi has been a political protitute for 30 years, a useless idiot whose only real talent – like most of the Beltway elite – was in choosing well-to-do parents to be born to. She married well and throws a mean party, rumor has it.

Other than that she’s a statue with no convictions, no original ideas and an intellectual midget. But this has been known for three decades by those of us who pay attention to such matters.

Anyhow, real Libs, Leftists and Anti-War activists tried to get her out of office years ago and the result was the Demonization of a real-patriot like Cindy Sheehan. But hey, the poor, the elderly, minorities, college and elementary students will pay the price for the modern-day Progs’ “responsible” thinking.

Thanks Obots

I also called her Frisco office an the intern hung up on me,an then transfered me to an automated message on another machine. Shame on that intern, when I did my internships we were told not to do that to the constitutants. The message I left was simple, I vote, and I an others associated with me will be voting for your removal from office.

If you read the resolution here (http://www.rules.house.gov/111/AmndmentsSubmitted/hr4899/hres1493_hr4849.pdf) the language you’re concerned with is a mere sense of the Congress and is not binding, and says nothing different than what the Speaker has publicly said in the past–IF the Commission comes up with something, and IF the Senate passes it, THEN she will put it on the floor. Two pretty formidable roadblocks before it makes it to the House floor, and this language does not formally bind her in any case. If the Speaker didn’t end up bringing it to the floor after (and IF) those other things happened, then everyone would say she broke her promise. They would have said that anyway even without the vote on the rule.

What I think should draw the ire of the commenters on this board is the fact that the Blue Dogs got their preferred budget level (which IS binding in the House) and didn’t even vote yes on it. If these moderates were going to vote no anyway, and we didn’t need their votes, why did we end up with a budget that is probably going to end up hurting our domestic programs?