The Earth is as old as his dad.

Sounds like that question is “above his pay grade”.

I like that.

Except if he wants to be a senator, that’s a pay grade waaaaay above his capacity.

Erm, on second thought, not if you grade on a curve of current senators, e.g. Boehner, Coburn, etc. Aren’t m.d.’s supposed to be, like, science majors?????

I wouldn’t be too hard on him. It’s possible that he fell off the commuter dinosaur he was riding to the office and landed on his head…which would explain a lot, actually.

OT – but an issue FDL has followed closely:

Supreme Court Orders Review in Siegelman case:

Hmmm, link didn’t post? Trying again:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/supreme_court_orders_review_of_siegelman_convictio.php?ref=fpb

Maybe he got his data from Research 2000.

Maybe he got his data from Archbishop James Ussher.

Ussher pulled it out of his ass.

Bring on the fundies and the Paultards.

Still, it makes a great excuse for a party.

fyi, it was in Louisville, KY. The crowd was probably a little over 100, too. Thanks for the linkage!

How many people know how old the Earth is? And who gives a shit in relation to unemployment?

Most people know it simply as “pretty old.” I doubt Obama even knows “how old the Earth is?” beyond “pretty old.”

Rand discovers once again that the questions asked of Senate candidates aren’t quite as easy as the questions for a professional certification (especially when you’ve invented your own certifying organization)

He does not have to answer religious questions. He is right. I will answer what all Christians think. Over 8 billion years or so. Maybe more. Whats the big deal? Are there people that think differently?.

Speaking of ducking and dodging, MSNBC doing a nice job of drone-on Petraeus discussion while blocking out the Franken speech at the Kagan hearing. Must keep the realities of the corporatist Roberts Court from the great unwashed…or they may realize how they’re getting screwed, one 5-4 at a time.

Well there is a pretty big difference between the generally accepted scientific age of 4.5 Billion years versus the Creationists/Humans rode dinosaurs crowd’s age of 6 thousand years.

But you know that already don’t you?

SD! You have the most interesting esoteric knowledge. I had to look him up.
Um, that goes for you, too, EDP.

Maybe he got his data from Archbishop James Ussher.

Didn’t his house fall down or something?

4.6 billion years

Yup. He built it on sand. ;)

state the age of the planet in front of 300 people Christian fundamentalists in Bowling Green, KY.

I’m not a fan of Randal by any means, but there are any number of politicians who would chicken out on this answer in front of cameras and a crowd with a known bias. Nearly all Rs and probably most Ds would find ways to not answer this one. Being booed and scorned on camera is not generally a way to win an election.

Of course he could have been more subtle. The classic – he said, she said – being the standard response style.

Where do you get that from? Christians do not believe this. Is that just a slam against Religion or what. Is that in the Koran perhaps?

“Paultards.” I like that. I have a feeling it’s gonna stick.

Some Bible literalists do. Well, not the dino part.

The usage of “crowd” pretty much defined it as a subset of Christians and the subset is not shy about their claims.

Uh, that’s 5th grade science you’re talking about.

I’ve always read a lot and my curiosity leads me down many paths. It ain’t how much ya know, it’s that ya know where to find it. Ussher I remember from “dialogue” with fundies during our anti-war protests.

LOL.

Speaking of pulling it out of his ass, Kos is claiming Research 2000 polling (often quoted here) is made-up crap.

Google “creationist museum dinosaur saddle” for links. If you hit the link for the pictures, you will even see one of Jesus cradling the baby dinosaur.

A pandering pol. I’m shocked.

Having said that, Rand is a pretty poor excuse, even for a pandering pol.

Where do you get that from? Christians do not believe this.

Depends on which “Christians” you’re talking about. Because there are a lot of Christians — especially evangelicals — who do.

Actually, there are bible literalists who do believe that humans and dinosaurs hung out together. In other words, “The Flintstones” was a documentary series.

Of course there is a creationist museum that shows the Dinosaurs and humans hanging out together. It was quite popular when it opened it’s doors. Easy way to keep the dinosaur loving children from asking questions.

Someone finally explained it to me a few months ago, why the creationists suddenly decided that the Earth was only some six thousand years old and not several billion years old. It seems that science has traced back human evolution in Africa for millions of years. So the human species evolved in Africa millions of years ago. The creationists freaked out on the idea that their ancestors lived in Africa, so they invented creationism, which ignored scientific history and neatly started the Earth only six thousand years ago, when whites were white…

Creationist Museum

It is usually people who believe that the King James Bible is the “inerrant word of God” and is to be believed explicitly. When confronted with evidence of carbon dating of bones, fossils, and rocks they will claim it was all part of God’s plan and that s/he salted the earth with things like dinosaur bones just to fool people.

I stand corrected dino-wise.

LOL

Easy way to keep the dinosaur loving children from asking questions.

“Mommy, is it true that dinosaurs taste like chicken?”

Well, good ole Randy is not at all interested in science or fact, that upsets that apple cart he is pulling around, selling those ‘shiny’ apples to the lo-info, ‘compassionate christian” charlatan crowd that is so enamored of him and his dehumanizing dogma!

I am actually waiting for the ‘witch trials’ to begin, because we all know that anybody who does not drink the koolaid and bow down to the teabag leaders, must be practicing some evil craft and trying to spread it to the ‘good folk’!

Christians read the bible. The bible does not say anything about how old the earth is. It does say after God made the earth, he rested. When it comes to time, the bible says a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. Christians believe that Adam and Eve were the first life forms to have souls that could be used by God for his purpose. You can make fun of that if you choose, but miss labeling them is not the way to have a good discussion.

One of my most interesting conversations with fundies was when 1 woman didn’t know that the Old Testament was the Hebrew Bible and that the first 5 books were known as the Books of Moses. It went downhill from there. I think I spent most of the time slack jawed whenever she or hubby spoke. Unreal.

The six thousand year thing, as far as I know, is a bit older than that, being based upon the lives and longevity in the old testament from Genesis onwards. The earliest descents of Adam and Eve being the longest lived supposedly.

I’m Skeptical.

The early books of the Bible list lineage.

“Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; / and on and on.

Someone added it all up back to Adam so those who believe in a flawless bible decided no one was missing, so it must be x thousand years.

If Christians read the Bible like the fundies I’ve met read they Bible then they’re in big trouble come judgment day.

You are simply misinformed. There are millions of young Earth creationists running around.

You’ve obviously not had the pleasure of extended time around folks from some of the more fundamentalist groups that have “worked out the mathematics” to arrive at the six thousand year old figure.

You’re using some semblance of logic. The folks who offer this gibberish as “science” are immune to anything resembling logic.

So Steve, not to make fun, but do you believe a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years? If so, how old do you tell people you are? Where do reality and the Bible intersect in your opinion, and where do they diverge?

The ever-tan man is not a Senator.

The other white meat.

The whole dinosaur craze has been a major problem for the creationists. Kids like to read about them and play with toys that represent them. The decision to stop saying that dinos exist and instead put them all together and have them wiped out by the flood is almost certainly because the fundamentalist parents could not shake the fascination of kids.

stevepatriquin…

It’s all about perceptions and blind faith. I have read the bible front to back (King James version, thank you) a multiplicity of times and I never indulged myself in thinking it represented scientific fact. It is a historically inaccurate interpretation of facts as someone perceived them to be, and then passed it on as solid evidence of such. I have no desire to make fun of someone’s closely held beliefs, but just because they feel it is factual does not make it so!

“I’m gonna have to pass on the age of the earth.”

Pitiful, Paul.

May my political beliefs never dictate how I deal with basic scientific facts.

I don’t think he said 6,000 years did he?

And, as I said, what does it matter in regard to unemployment? Health care coverage for all, etc.?

Old Testament Timeline

Yeah, you looked at the post above didn’t you?

And, guaranteed, that figure will change to something else 50 years from now.

matters a lot in re REALITY

So much for scientific evidence, eh?

Edit: No Rand did not SAY 6K years. He ducked the question completely since he either:
A) did not want to p*ss off the fundies or
B) did not want to be seen as a young earth creationist to the sane/educated voters of the state.

But after all, he’s running as a Republican so I guess to you that means he gets a pass on actual facts and things like that. After all, who needs science.

R(ayn)d shrugs. I get it.

inaccurate interpretation of facts natural phenomena

Fixed it for ya

If you’ve ever watched that show Are you smarter than a 5th grader–which I did a few times a few years ago–you’ll know that many “5th grade” knowledge is forgotten by most people soon after they leave school.

As I said, I doubt Obama would have an answer beyond “pretty old.”

Since “science” gave us Zyklon B and the Atomic bomb, I’m not so sure they are infallible either.

Good, tell me how the age of the Earth affects unemployment and getting more people to work?

You seem to be pretty smart, or at least think you are, so I am sure you can draw some direct connection pretty easily. I am sure you can demonstrate how the a person not knowing the age of the Earth could not possibly get more people working.

Quit believing in myths.

This is true because if the Earth was only 1 billion years old, unemployment would likely be only 8%.

We are lucky, because if it had been 8 billions years old, unemployment would likely be 13%.

Since “science” gave us Zyklon B and the Atomic bomb, I’m not so sure they are infallible either.

Uh–what?

Wow. Twisting everything into something to bash Obama.

Thanks SouthernDragon…works better now!

May my political beliefs never dictate how I deal with basic scientific facts.

Or any other kind of facts, for that matter. That’s what I tend to use with wingnuts and it does have some effect, if only to get them to shut their yaps…

Not every post needs to be about what time the man brings your relief check.

Good one.

Afternoon, all-
“Any faith that cannot survive a collision with the truth isn’t worth many regrets.”
-Arthur C. Clarke

Nice straw argument.

I want someone representing the state of my birth who believes in and understands and accepts science, not someone who panders to the minority of folks who refuse to accept the objective, scientific evidence that the earth is far older than 6K years

We already have enough morans in Congress.

Some of us read books covering cosmology, string/membrane theory and stuff like that. The age of various artifacts in the universe are often given for perspective in some areas, the earth being the most common.

Science has not given us all rainbows and lollipops.

It has provided the tools, including guns, that have helped to cause untold cruelty on this 4.5 billion year old Earth, so it is not some wonderful God.

yes, I understand the morons are now in the majority.

Be careful throwing that word ‘myth’ around too loosely. We just spent 8 years with a leader and a party that takes myth as empirical evidence…and now we have a cat who seems to eloquently explain to us why he has accepted the same path!

And people misuse cars, guns, computers, clothing, alcohol and other products, what’s your point?

That we should ignore science at all levels because some people and organizations do bad things with it?

Paul is not an idiot. He most likely knows the approximate truth, but was smart enough to know that to answer truthfully would have discredited him in front of that particular audience. The questioner threw him a grenade, and he ducked it. Pretty standard stuff, really-what makes it stand out is the answer required by that audience is so ludicrous. Paul-1, questioner-0.

I would normally agree, but unfortunately for Paul — this was videotaped and is now being seen by everyone.

No, not consider it some infallible God with all the great answers. Aristole believed a lot of weird shit by today’s standards, but he was a pretty smart guy who had some great ideas.

No. God says a thousand years is like a day to him, not us. It is his way of saying do not worry about time. Mostly it is a reference to how old the earth is. He never tells you how long he rested. He says in his way, you do not need to know how long I rested. Remember, it is Christians that give Christians a bad name with some of their actions. That group from Kansas being one. Not to disparage to much, but many true Christians look at the Catholic church as being pagan. One of the reasons, and there are a few, is confession. A Christian is called upon to ask for forgiveness from Jesus, and only Jesus.Catholics go to a priest. But who am I. Ask yourself this. If you know the bible, Jesus said woe to the ones that hurt the little ones. Why would they cover up the child abuse? Not very Christian.

True-science does not have all the answers.

Just all the answers that can be proven.

In my book the inability to tell the truth at anytime qualifies as a discredit to the person and a significant character flaw. That is what is wrong with the body politik these days. That is what is largely ludicrous!

this was videotaped and is now being seen by everyone.

“Huh? You mean they keep the tape, and..like..they can play it more than one time..like…over and over again? You’re kidding, right?”

Sorry Ron. Afraid you stepped in some serious dinosaur shit…

Yeah, you looked at the post above didn’t you?

The approximate age of the earth is common knowledge, just as the approximate age of the universe ~13.7 billion

the inability to tell the truth at anytime qualifies as a discredit to the person

I agree. Paul was, very cynically, trying to avoid the truth without telling a bald-faced lie that could bite him in the ass later.
Although, disregarding all empirical evidence to the contrary and clinging to a 14th-century calculation, and treating it as infallible eternal doctrine, is pretty ludicrous.

Hey Shoto. In the end, IMO, Paul evaded the trap. Not gracefully-but the tape won’t show him either losing his audience or saying something bizarre. Just avoiding the question.

Finished cleaning my shoes, I hope.

So, let’s say the determination of the age of the Earth changes to 6 billion in the future. Does that mean that all people who now believe it is 4.5 billion, such as dakine have a significant character flaw?

Obviously, they didn’t have the ability to “tell the truth” since that 4.5 billion figure proved to be false.

So, you can only say, “what is believed to be the truth at this moment.” Not “THE TRUTH.”

Forgot to note in last post that scientific “truths” are constantly changing.

OMG. Does that mean they quote him as accurate, now, in the 21st century????

This is because science is not rigid and dogmatic. A scientist confronted with new evidence should be willing to alter their views, as knowledge progresses. I wish, just once, someone in religion or politics would do that.

Yes, science does constantly change as more and better information becomes available.

So why don’t you explain what your real agenda is with your straw arguments? There is obviously something behind all your BS that you are throwing out here. Even though I know you are much further to the right than I am, you have often seemed to be somewhat reasonable in your presentations so why the sudden desire to be trollish in your responses?

Oops, my bad. Wrong house.

You really don’t understand the scientific method, do you? It is not about your kind of absolutes so your contention that oh look, science doesn’t have absolutes is meaningless.

Well, Isaac Newton is right on, until velocity goes way up or things get very small or large. Then-a miracle occurs-the facts change-and Einstein takes over. They are both right, but in different contexts.

Aargh. cragan is deliberately missing the point.

The point being, IMHO, Rand Paul either (1) knows better but is too cowardly to tell the dinos-with-saddles earth-60000-yrs-old-believing folks the truth, or
(2) he believes the above-described s***t and wants to keep the non-believers from finding that out.

Either way, he’s a lousy candidate for Senate. (1) he’s as cowardly as all the pols we have in now, or (2) he’s an idiot, possibly even stupider and more ignorant than the ones we have now. Either way, baaaaaaad.

Arguing about the actual age of the earth or whether science makes mistakes, leads to discoveries that are bad for humans, etc., are just red herrings. nothing to do with the point being made here.

Some knew his name but most use his date without knowing where it comes from. My observations were that the fundies were familiar with those parts of the Old Testament they heard over and over from their pastor or teebee/radio evangelicals. Their knowledge of the New Testament was abysmal.

Give Rand a break. He was raised and educated in Texas, after all.

Texans: Dinosaurs, Humans Walked the Earth at Same Time

Texas Tribune
Feb 17, 2010

Nearly a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time, and more than half disagree with the theory that humans developed from earlier species of animals, according to the University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll.

[...]

dakine and other folks are not actively arguing in front of a crowd of potential voters trying to have an open and frank discussion about the age of the earth in order to sway their reception as ‘chosen ones’.

There is a real difference when you subscribe to a particular ‘truth’ that has the inherent potential to change based on the discovery of new information and fact! You state the truth as it is at that particular moment as commented. That does not make you a charlatan or smear your character.

But a person’s inability to honestly state their beliefs or their truths when attempting to garnish votes in order to be a leader, but simultaneously trying not to upset their particular apple cart…is both devious and a character flaw in my opinion.

..and that flaw and deviousness is not Randy’s alone…hence that is what is wrong with the body politik these days!

Center of attention seeker.

It’s Rabbi Hillel II (not to be confused with Rabbi Hillel the Elder) who first calculated the creation date an 358 AD establishing the Hebrew calendar.

To be precise, Creation day would be the 1st of the month of Tishri, 3761 BC.

You didn’t exactly answer the question I asked but you did give me a hint. You believe that the Bible was written by God, but that we mere mortals shouldn’t really worry about WTF he’s talking about.

This is why this post about Rand Paul exists. Either a person is a critical thinker who is able to separate truth from myth, or he’s not. Many of us prefer that people who represent us in Congress have critical thinking skills and leave their religious dogma out of policy decisions. I don’t believe in God. Christians and Muslims and even Scientologists are perfectly welcome to their beliefs, whatever they may be, but they don’t get to impose them on the rest of us.

Their knowledge of the New Testament was abysmal.

Figures. Some Christians. When I was going to Sunday school, I was taught that the New Testament laws (Golden Rule, Sermon on the Mount) replaced all those 692 (probably off a bit on that number) laws in Deuteronomy.
Funny how many of these “evangelicals” – the word means spread-the-gospel — seem to prefer the OT to the New T, which requires them to love their neighbor.
Oh, and I grew up in a “mainstream” denomination – Lutheran Church in America.

Excellent digest of principle. I especially like these parts:

Many of us prefer that people who represent us in Congress have critical thinking skills … but they don’t get to impose them on the rest of us.

The Southern Baptists that I grew up around were the same, with one exception-they were very familiar with the parts of the New Testament where St. Paul was keeping the women in their place.

Bible was written by man. Moses was one of the few who saw an Image of God. Remember the holy spirit is a big thing to Christians.Holy spirit is a guiding force in Christianity. Christians are used to being mocked. many have been killed over the years. Atheists mock them today. No big deal. I would help an atheist as quick as I would a Christian.One of the bible writers actually killed Christians. He saw Jesus in a desert and became Paul.

Special Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs with Daniel Okrent’s Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition hosted by Jon Walker

Many evil atheists have come and gone. Let us not forget this.

Well, Steve, we could do this all day and at the end I would still be a critical thinker and you would still be presenting random nonsense as facts and interjecting new and unrelated fairy tales into the conversation. Someone with more patience than I have may wish to proceed, but I do not. Best wishes, seriously.

You know, I guess I am just missing the sophisticated gene necessary to properly belittle other people’s religious beliefs. I guess Rand must be missing it, too.

Does that make us worse than the authors of the smirking articles on this topic that are circling the blogosphere right now?

Well, you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Indeed. Couldn’t agree with you more, especially these days. I’ve commented before on the rise of the “prosperity” Christian churches (most, imo, are off-shoots of one sort or another of Doug Coe’s C Street “Family” fundies who push certain agendas through the churches to accomplish political aims, even if somewhat veiled). Most of those focus almost solely on the OT (I speak from direct experience of attending such churches with my very rightwing fundie family members). I am always saddened by this bc of how nasty and vindictive a lot of the OT is.

I was raised in similar churches before the radical infestation of Doug Coe’s political philosophy, and I was raised being taught the “good news” of the NT and the teachings of Jesus, as in “love thy neighbor,” the golden rule, and so on. These churches of my childhood are now almost solely focused on the OT and pushing out the notion that, if you’re not rich, it’s because you are “bad person” who has done something to displease God. And then they go on to focus on how God is “jealous” (yes, I know it’s in the scripture) and vengeful (ditto) and so on.

These kind of teachings weren’t prominent in my youth (’50s and ’60s), and IMO it’s no “accident” that many of these churches switched to the OT and stopped focusing on hippie Jesus and the “love one another” b.s.

’nuff said. If you don’t realize that MANY fundies think the earth is something only like 6000 years old and the WHITE people roamed around with Dinos, than you haven’t been paying attention. In addition to that creationist museum outside of Cincinnatti (in KY? I think), there is another one in Santee eastern San Diego County (unsurprisingly a renowned hold-out of the John Birch Society):
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/9416

And if you do teh google thingie, there are other such museums around the nation, also unsurprisingly, include Tejas….

And so: on it goes…

Ayn Rand Paul has done worse stuff, though, but he’s pandering to the crowd. It is what politicians do. No great fan of Mr. Rand Paul, though. He seems dumb as a post to me.

You may have a point about the belittling of religions, but otoh, too many religious people (speaking from direct personal experience) want to ram their religious beliefs down my throat. One such example on the national level is the extremes that many religious people go to bar women from getting abortions, as well to enact legislation to make it illegal. That’s shoving their religious viewpoint down my throat. I’ve always said: if you think abortion is wrong/murder/whatever: fine. Don’t have one, and leave everyone else alone.

Two wrong’s don’t make a right, but some people get frustrated with how the religious right has been permitted to ram their agenda and religion down everyone else’s throat. I would say that’s where the belittlement comes from. Not good, but there you have it.

So have many evil folks who called themselves “Christian”

What’s your point?

Let us not forget that many evil people come and go all the time, every day, throughout the history of mankind, and they will continue to do so until the end of time. Some are out front about their evil, and some mask their evil with religion. What’s your point?

My point is to a Christian, the devil will and does afflict anyone.

But you were quite specific about evil Atheists without noting evil Christians.

Evil is evil.

Not on purpose. So many people here are hammering Christians so I threw that in to remind people that all are afflicted. I posted about Christians giving other Christians a bad name earlier.

The problem is you’re not differentiating between run-of-the-mill, practicing Christians (everyone from Catholics to Lutherans) and fundamentalists.

The focus of this post is on fundamentalism. Not Christianity.

To be honest I am naive as to what a fundamentalist is. There is only one bible. I do know this. Beware prophets seeking profits. That is a good rule of thumb.

Actually there are hundreds if not thousands of bibles, which is part of the problem. Different versions have different language; some have ‘books’ that others do not.

So now we’re expected to explain fundamentalism so we can extend the thread ad nauseum. No thanks. Colour me gone.

The atomic bomb is infallable. Its use is the problem. Don’t fault the atom for containing so much stored energy. Don’t fault the science for leading to conclusion drawn from investigation. Fault the douchebags that wave their warheads at eachother whenever someone’s grumpy.

God and humans experience time differently. When God fails to answer prayers, it is not because He is ignoring you. He took a short vacation when his son was born and won’t be responding for maybe a couple thousand more years. In the meantime, we’re on our own. (I’m pretty sure if you die before He clocks back in, you’re basically screwed, so you’d better hope you make it to the nanotech singularity.)

Mark Read Pickens

How big was the sun all those billions of years ago?

The earth can’t be very old. We know, we do know, don’t we? that the sun shrinks so much over time. So, has sun shrinkage been factored in to all those billions of years?

If the age of the earth is taken back to far, we could not possibly be here.

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=165

Any hoo, ya all can think whatcha want. Make fun of Rand, his Pops & the Bible. I do know that the Bible has a 100% accurate prediction rate. See Josh McDowell’s Evidence That Demands A Verdict.

Rand didn’t know how old the earth is & we get all this diatribe about nothing important.. Seems to me ‘progressives’ are so bent out of shape by any one who says the US should be returned to Constitutional law that they pull out all the trivial stuff they can & holler & scream about how bad a Const. supporter is. I looked up Wiki/ They say “The planet formed 4.54 billion years ago, and life appeared on its surface…”. Thought the age was settled. Oh well…

You call Rand & Ron Paul stupid & so on. Riddle me this: How smart is it to SPEND our way out of a debt based recession??? Try that at your house & see how far ya get. CAN’T be done. Ask Greece. But the Dems & R’s have been trying this insanity over & over & all we get IS MORE DEBT!! Obama is now trying to do the same & is spending US into oblivion, but nary a word because he’s a prog lib Dem. Where are all you who dumped on Bush FOR DOING THE SAME THING?? O is STILL doing thew Bush thing but since it’s a prog DFem no protest. We still have over spending in O like we had in Bush, just more of it. We still have open borders. We still have HIGH UN-employment. We have even a larger, MUCH larger, national debt. O is Bush on ‘roids. O has not had a transparent administration or rescinded the ‘Patriot’ Act.

Rand has not claimed to be a rocket scientist. Neither has his dad. But they ARE smart enough to know that to save the US republic we HAVE to change DC. You know, stop big govt expansion, over taxing & spending, keep out the world’s business, restore personal liberty & responsibility, return state’s rights… It is hard to believe that the progs are so desperate that they continue to stoop to the level of the main theme of the article, which is to trash a patriot with irrelevant accusations they pretend are serious.

SamFox

Welcome, Sam.

It is hard to believe that the progs are so desperate that they continue to stoop to the level of the main theme of the article, which is to trash a patriot with irrelevant accusations they pretend are serious.

Fair enough. But consider this: If your ‘Patriot’ had been in the United States Senate when the Civil Rights Act was passed, he would have tried to ensure that you had restaurants all to yourself. And to top it off, he would not have done it out of racism, but out of utter ignorance.

Some Patriot. You cannot possibly hope to play that game here.

99% of Christians give the rest a bad name.

Mark Read Pickens

Aw, shit, another libertarian. Give. Me. A. Break. with that bullshit.