
Dear Intern: What's wrong with this picture? (photo: Funny Biz via Flickr)
Your peeps have been dropping me hints and talking about you; dammit, we have to talk.
You know those four little words don’t bode well; they’re enough to make your boyfriend’s blood run cold.
But seriously, even your boyfriend knows I’m right.
THIS is not acceptable office attire. No. And I mean, HELL NO.
Neither is this outfit volunteered at a college advice site written by students. You might do well to check the age of the person posting style suggestions and their agenda when they give you advice, because some people will steer you wrong and they won’t even realize they are doing it simply because they are too young or never had a job in an office environment.
Stiletto heels and a pink tennis skirt? Your mother needs to ground you to your bedroom for a weekend without your cellphone. Who ever told you that looking like you make money in the oldest profession was a sure thing in an office environment? You realize when we talk about “corporate whores” we’re talking about politicians on the take whose campaign coffers have been lined with company money, right? It’s a figure of speech, not a choice in couture.
Just because it’s hot and sticky outside does not give you adequate reason to dress like a bimbo, either. And that means these things are out of line: . . .
– Skirts with hemlines shorter than the ends of your fingers when your arms are relaxed; an appropriate length is 2-3 inches above the knee to at the knee.
– Tank tops, especially those which allow your undergarments to show. (No, removing undergarments does not count. NO.) A cap sleeve or short sleeve is appropriate, a sleeveless shell may also work if the neck and armhole are not too aggressive in cut. That’s the same reason why this dress does NOT work, no matter what the silly college students at the advice site tell you.
– Bare midriffs are an absolute no-no unless you are working for a strip club or a specific kind of sports bar which encourages ample display of skin.
– Sheer fabrics which are unlined. C’mon, really now, I shouldn’t even have to tell you this.
– Too metallic, neon, shiny, Lycra-stretchy, animal-printy. These kinds of things are appropriate for afterhours events at certain venues like clubs, not in the office. It’s called work, not a party. For example: again, even though some silly college students may try to tell you this pantsuit is cut conservatively and may work for the office, the shiny factor is reason to stay the hell away from what looks to adults like summer pajamas.
– Speaking of undergarments, wear them, and keep them out of sight. Perhaps you were in high school when this was discussed last, no matter. The rules have not changed.
Do you know what to wear to an interview for an office job? That’s what you need to wear every day, perhaps a little loosened-up version if business casual is in order. As an intern, every day is an interview for the next job; with your attire you are telling people before you even open your mouth that you are a serious person who intends to work hard and make a difference. Serious attire is NOT a pink tennis skirt with spike-heeled strappy sandals. Take a look at what the most respected woman in the office is wearing and use her attire as a guideline if you have difficulty figuring out how to master this.
Yeah…I know this is late, I’ve been putting off having this little chat with you because, well, I figured you were smarter than this and that you’d eventually clue in. But after a few weeks on the job, I’ve been getting more frequent pokes about this problem and smart-alecky remarks about you, to the point that I am certain the attire problem is causing serious damage to your future prospects for a reference. This stuff can poison the well for a long time, too. In a sea of fresh young things they may not remember you were the fastest at the printer or smartest on research, but they’ll remember the poor child with the bad sense to wear a tennis skirt with stiletto heels.
Sure, you’re going to call me a bitch and ask me who died and made me the mother-of-all-things. Whatev. All I know is that one of us lived through a similar come-to-Jesus moment as a student and worked in the business world longer than you’ve been here on earth. And one of us still has to survive the summer as an intern and score a reference.



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FYI, I received multiple messages on this topic, including several from a young straight male working in Washington DC. When straight guys complain, it’s bad. Some mothers out there need to have a chat with their kids before letting them ship off to internships.
Any of you seeing this kind of ridiculous behavior from interns?
And yes, this is focused on women, because men have it very easy. They can blindly grab a shirt/jacket/pants/tie and they’re done. They need to learn grooming and etiquette, but I never hear people with hiring authority complain about young men’s attire if the grooming is up to snuff.
I wouldn’t know. I’ve been unemployed so long that those clothes may very well be appropriate these days.
rayne!
Margaret (2) — nah, you haven’t been unemployed that long. It seems long in the wallet, but it’s not that long in terms of culture.
Suz (3) — nice to see you again on Late Night!
Counting down the minutes before I get smacked up for being 1) sexist and/or 2) too hard on poor students…
oh dear, i guess i should put on my nomex and kevlar, just in case.
If at conference, male or female, getting totally smashed is not a good idea. Word gets around.
Fortunately I rarely need a tie. And most conferences I go to usually people are dressed appropriately.
Yeah, I have my Kevlar on already.
You what’s crazy is that the interns in DC actually have a blog about all the silly stuff that interns do; they are submitting content about each other. And yet they don’t straighten up. Even WaPo has a blog about interns and the students still don’t get it.
oh geez, someone just needs to flat out tell them ‘this ain’t mtv, its an office’. sheez, i hate it when i sound like an old fuddy duddy.
Nah. I’m inclined to agree with you. I know I would have sent an intern home for wearing any of the outfits that you linked to. Particularly in a clinical setting. Science interns do mostly tedious, repetitive work and the last thing they need to do is be distracted by sexy clothing. People should be comfortable but inside with the air conditioning on, there’s no reason to wear so little.
Where are conferences held in your industry? I think that makes some difference.
Also makes a difference what industry, too. The manufacturing and technology conferences and conventions are pretty staid affairs, a sea of polo shirts and khaki pants broken up by the occasional suit/sport jacket.
as i’ve come up through academic and corporate culture i’ve heard and learned that one should ~always~ be dressing toward
. . . . (:>
I’ve yet to run into somebody who has sent home an intern in DC. Have heard of/seen it here in fly-over country.
Really makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with the Beltway, especially when I hear about this stuff in congressional and Pentagon offices.
That’s what the rules were last I was in the corporate drone sector. I still use that rule of thumb when I interview people; those who are aspiring to get ahead dress ahead of, not behind the job they are targeting.
While I haven’t had to dress like this in many years due to working on a jobsite most of my career, I HAVE had to actually purchase clothes at retail establishments. I can say that part of the problem is that about 90% of what I find, even at department stores like Macy’s and Nordstrom’s is:
1. Too sexy. Too tight, too low cut, too SitC looking. Too frilly, too young, too see through, Just TOO MUCH. Even so-called “career” wear. It is totally depressing to try to find, oh, I don’t know, a WHITE BLOUSE or something basic like that. The other side of the coin is that stuff is
2. Old Ladyish/Too casual/Cruise Ship Wear (Will those damned pedal pushers EVER go out of style?)
I find shopping via catalogue is way more satisfying, and you can find things that you can “personalize”. Think Land’s End or LL Bean where basic things like that are modestly (but closely!) cut and can be dressed up with accessories. Get out of the mall, because I find most of the stores there are totally geared for teenagers and early 20s people on a hunt for club wear.
Would you like it alphabetically or in order of importance? ;-)
I’m intensely glad I only had to wear scrubs.
But I did hear muttering about young secretarial staffers who wore shorts in the summer. Somehow the rules were changed so that wearing “dress shorts” with hose became OK.
University level professional societies that aren’t usually to too strict as to what you wear.
Agreed! 99 percent of retail clothing stores are aimed at a demographic I left long ago.
Guys occasionally get gigged for being sloppy and tattered, wrinkled shirts, frayed jeans, disgusting sneakers. I really think some women, who, after all, look in the mirror in the morning and know what they look like, want to see sexy in the reflection. A head hunter, a woman, commenting on inappropriate office attire summed it up perfectly: too competitive, too much information. God, I am glad someone said it. The office isn’t the time or place to display the wares.
As a man I’m envious of women, they have so much more flexibility in what they can wear at work (discounting the above-mentioned don’ts). Men wear slacks and a shirt, possibly a tie and jacket. Long sleeves or short sleeves are about the only flexibility, whoop-de-do. I wish we could at least have knickers.
Long before Monica made it a dirty word, I was an intern in DC.
I don’t recall any outfit problems among the interns I knew, but then again, I’m old (or so my kid tells me). Could be that it was a different era, or maybe my memory is slipping.
;-)
Too many women have internalized the femmebot imperative and taken it to its logical conclusion, what?
Hi Rayne!
This is a great post, and I’ve been laughing my butt off. Well, at least the age of the low-rider butt crack seems to be over. My supervisor and I spent years trying to avoid the low-rider jeans sitting at the public service computers, we’ve seen more tatoos than one ever should.
Our interns are dressed pretty well, mostly because we are over air-conditioned. Too cool, too still in the library, everyone is covered up. But the shoes, please! Some of them are crazy high and gladiator armed, as you mentioned.
All of the above! ;0
Is she wearing her Corp. knee pads? If not shame on her.
ScoutFinch (14) – I think there’s some decent togs at both Target and Walmart (shock!). Target has a line which is business-focused as does Walmart (their George label). Have a link to a Target blouse to show a cap sleeved blouse, for example. This is not an endorsement for either store, but I think it’s kind of ridiculous that with this kind of availability that there isn’t more pushback at wearing club clothes at work.
Margaret (15) – oh, we’d probably have to set aside an hour an evening to write that encyclopedia.
Margot (16) – I think business shorts are okay, provided they are long enough. I used to have a tech job which required a fair amount of physical work; business shorts are much better suited to that over a skirt.
I’ve never been much of a wearer of heels. I know an attorney who will send an intern or even a client home for wearing shoes that are too high and sexy. Give me a pair of trainers any day though. I hate it these days when I have to wear leather, hard soled shoes.
An hour an evening every evening for at least a year.
One thing I do recall from my intern days was overhearing some of the career folks talking about the interns. These DC executive branch career people noticed a difference between interns in agencies and non-partisan think tanks on the one hand and those in congressional offices and political party shops on the other. The former came to work and learn; the latter to schmooze and . . . schmooze some more.
AZ Matt (17) — yeah, education isn’t unlike manufacturing/technology in that respect. Politics must be part of the problem. Over-glamorized, I guess.
Margaret (18) — Arm holes – what is it with armholes? the demographic clothes are aimed at seems to think we all have little tiny chicken wings.
liberalarts (19) — I will have to remember that one, “too competitive, too much information.” TMI could come in handy as a short-cut to tell somebody they are a little too exposed.
puppethead (20) — the grass is always greener on the other side. I have two words for you as a rebuttal: bras and pantyhose. Ugh.
Oh, my. It must r-e-a-l-l-y be a Slow News Night if this is all FDL can offer…
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread – have been over the subject so much. But, as a former lawyer, my eyes boggled at this:
How the hell can you send a client home? For any reason? The only circumstance I can think of is where I once had a court-appointed client who was mentally ill – the manager of my office building threatened to bar him from the building for certain bad behavior – and I had to lecture him about behaving properly.
But a paying client? Without mental issues? How do you do that?
Ahhh good, they’ve finally showed up …
Get yer swatter, Rayne !
When we needed to dress MsCE for NYC interviews, I took her to Nordstroms and let the saleswoman dress her. She picked a wonderful outfit, beautifully appropriate, and I just handed over the money.
That’s entirely unsurprising. I’ve had interns that came there to work and learn and those that came there to satisfy a college credit. It’s really easy to tell the difference. When one is engaged in clinical research, filing is the most tedious part of it but one of the most important also. That separates them in a hurry! I was never a push over on signing off on that credit either, though I’m the easiest person in the world to work for. Do your best, do it when you’re supposed to be and we get along famously.
you must be new to late nite — which is a breather, a snarky place to relax from all the serious stories of the day.
Yes, sigh. Once upon a time I did have tiny little chicken wings – skinny, skinny arms. I never imagined that after menopause I would suddenly have the dreaded flappy upper-arms that I now squeeze into too-narrow sleeves.
Christine ! Suz !
You’d have to ask her. She’s not a criminal defense attorney and she is absolutely adamant about women not wearing sexy clothing or shoes for their court appearances. She insists on looking sober and professional and she turns away clients all the time because she is in such demand.
EDIT: I’ve known her to send inappropriately dressed men home on many occasions too.
Don’t know why anyone would be surprised that girls today look like tramps. Just take a look at any Hollywood magazine or even a lot of tv shows. The girls are half naked. The stars go on Letterman and talk about what they have had “enlarged” or whatever and their sex lives. We have lost any sense of embarrassment.
i too have chicken wings that flap with movement. i tend to wear long sleeves to avoid smacking myself in the face when waving.
Class, you haven’t been paying attention to the assignment. Six demerits, plus Study Hell. (:>
*MODNOTE: link fixed, extra http removed*
Petro!!! Swatter in hand!
ChristineEdmonson (23) — What is with the gladiator sandals? I don’t even know how people get into/out of them. I bought a fairly modest pair for my daughter, who’s taking to walking around in them unbuckled.
And yes, air conditioning does have a way of fixing some of the wardrobe issues, doesn’t it? Even for menopausal types – phew.
Margaret (27) — I’m very fond of Aerosole brand shoes; flexible rubber sole, leather uppers, no more stiff or hard leather soles.
Peterr (29) — Don’t you think money has something to do with the difference? if you go to work for think tanks, they are often 501c3 entities who are on a tighter budget than a party organization, for example. And then there’s the legacy factor – you can see a Bush family member working for one rather than the other, right?
Ooooohh. Dress for court. That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Yes, there you are the boss, and part of the job is instructing clients (especially those who don’t already know) how to dress for court. I was picturing sending the client home from your office. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Lighten up. This is late night at FDL. This is one of the more serious topics I’ve seen on the late night thread here. :-)
Oh no! Not that at all! The first time I went to her office, I was in jeans and a tee shirt and though I didn’t need it, I got the admonishment about dressing appropriately for court. :-)
That would be because of a combination of the fact that most young women are being pushed out there to find a husband (yes, even in today’s supposedly more progressive society), and the fact that we do not, as a society, tend to teach women what is and is not proper attire for work.
I have one business suit. The rest of my wardrobe is not bad attire either. Most days I work in shorts and a t-shirt because I’m a blogger and college student right now, and I do not exactly have to get dressed for the office each morning. I do have to say that I do at least get dressed before I come out and report the news for my LGBT blog.
I should add, given that I saw this in another post, I can manage to get out somewhere between five and fifteen stories in a day depending on the news cycle, and the amount of time I have. Each story has an average of 750 words.
I’ll look into that…if I ever get another job.
What Suzanne said — this is an opportunity to chill out after busting chops all day.
And there’s an important issue here even if you don’t personally see it: young women are getting conflicting messages about what’s acceptable at work, and it hurts them. How are we going to reach gender equity and parity in the work place when we get messages from the fashion world and corporate retail which says one thing, and a completely different message from the workplace itself?
Maybe that doesn’t bother you or affect your life. It makes a difference when you walk a mile in my pumps.
I’m a dedicated Marshall’s shopper, with great success. There is plenty of choice for me, and for young people too. A great place to find a cardigan (and that is NOT easy) and cute shoes.
Fortunately I don’t suffer from the flaps but only because I worked them off. Now they are just thick but at least not flappy. I hated that!
The people in authority at my place of business dither and hedge every few years and produce a revised dress code that they are terrified to enforce. Nobody wants to send anyone home for even the most egregious baring of flesh, so there are some ugly sights to behold -especially in summer.
I haven’t had a great deal of success with them though I found a pair of trainers there in 2006 that I still wear today, almost every day. I do a lot of thrift store shopping when I do any shopping at all.
Love this, Rayne.
They can call you a bitch, and much worse.
You are doing them a ***huge*** favor.
If they’re too self-obsessed, snotty, princess-complex impaired, or knuckleheaded to recognize that you are doing them a favor, here’s hoping they sure as hell don’t land a job that requires an iota of judgment.
Excellently well done post.
You may also want to give a pointer or two about the need for occasional dry cleaning and ironing.
And damn me for a snob if you want to, but an enterprising young person would go to their nearest Nordstrom’s (or store that sells clothing made to last more than 6 months), and ask for assistance.
Call me snotty, but Nordstrom offers a ‘personal shopper’ service: tell them your budget, tell them what you need, and you’ll get excellent advice. If a young intern is more comfortable at JC Penney, Macy’s, or other larger stores take a friend with good judgment, taste, and enough integrity to tell you what not to buy. (I also know two professional women who dress beautifully, and haunt consignment shops, so this isn’t about money as much as it’s about ‘taste’ and judgment.)
I sincerely hope some young interns read this, Rayne, because your advice is invaluable.
I don’t know about the husband-hunting angle; maybe it’s there and I just hang with the wrong people. Most of my teenage daughter’s friends and families are simply focused on getting into college and selecting a career.
On the other hand, virtually none of them are look at politics as a career, let alone think tanks or nonprofits which might be located in larger cities and in DC specifically. Most are looking at technical, educational or medical professions.
Aerosole’s are great shoes and last forever. I realize my comment at 40 was a little more serious than intended but I have a 15 year old granddaughter who loves to shop. It’s actually sorta difficult to find things today that cover the “essentials.” When she was 6 she kept pushing her jeans down below her belly button and my daughter would say “pull your pants up” and her reply always was “but Britney Spears wears hers like that.”
It’s a difficult time to raise females.
I’m always looking for solid colors and cotton clothes — I’m allergic to wool, and live in the land of snow and cold. Marshall’s here has great shoes, both athletic and stylish. And I love the cotton shirts.
Barbie is the archetypal femmebot that little girls were urged to model. Then came the Brats. A sort of devolution from chattel status.
Yep and a culture that can produce those obscene young girl beauty pageants is a sick one indeed.
Nordstrom has outlets stores, too.
And very dangerous.
And some judges are a**holes about it, too.
I was at a custody hearing in the late spring, wearing a shirt/tie/dress slacks and my favorite camel-hair blazer. What I didn’t know was that they hadn’t turned the heaters off in the courthouse. I was getting overheated, and asked hizzoner if I could remove my coat. The answer came back, “No, you may not. I will have the bailiff get you a glass of water, though.”
As far as interns go, I think they take their dress habits to work from campus. I’ve had students this summer turning up in class wearing what had to be an unslept-in set of PJs.
I live in central Texas and cotton is the ONLY fabric for summer! I have a huge collection of white cotton shirts, some pretty, some plain but all loose.
I once broke down in tears, standing outside of an Abercrombie store in our mall. I sobbed so much that the family led me out to the car — all over a teen wanting a down coat, not needed and priced at $350.00 (with money that she saved herself). Crazy times those teen years. Oh, coat not purchased, thank you very much.
Dru (53) — Oh my…hasn’t anybody figured out that a discreetly placed anonymous note can do wonders? Even a timely reminder about dress code helps.
Margaret (54) — you and me both, I still do thrift store shopping. My mom volunteers at a facility in Florida in a well-to-do community; she often picks up items of designer clothing which have never been worn, still have the original store hang tags, for next to nothing. She bought my daughter two designer sun dresses with $200 price tags on each of them, for a whopping $9.
rOTL (55) — Oh, we may never actually hear them, but I suspect this missive is already being copied to a few folks right now who might feel a little disconcerted.
I didn’t even get into maintenance because that would be a couple pages more. Almost need to write an “Angry Mother’s Book of Care and Feeding for the Intern.”
Yep. I can’t imagine the parent that would parade their daughter around like that? Who would dress their daughter like a prostitute barely out of toddler stage? Who would put make up on a kindergartener? I’m not usually for morality laws but one banning those pageants I could support.
Saw a news show from L.A. and a group of very rich teens were shopping. They were buying small Gucci bags that were priced at $400.00 like they were nothing. I was totally shocked.
at the oregon coast, its pretty much fleece for me… warm and comfy too.
I bought my black silk dress for six dollars I think. Another good thing about thrift stores is that they don’t always know what they have. That thing must have gone for well over $200 new.
Mmmmm….I love fleece. It’s a great Fall fabric here.
Just a thought. It also is very difficult to buy clothes if you are older. I can’t find anything that doesn’t look as if I’m trying to be 25. Wouldn’t be seen in anything like that so I just keep wearing what I have.
Yes, we had to deal with the Britney crap. Fortunately have a kid whose innate self-consciousness combined with her mother’s insistence that midriff exposure is never appropriate in school/work/church means I never had to deal with that.
Except for the cut of clothes — for a while it seemed like all girls’ shirts were also cut shorter. Thankfully we live far enough north that undershirts and camisoles provided both warmth and extra coverage.
Hey, I’m from the 70′s…everything expensive shocks me.
LOL ROFLMFAO!!! Great one Suz!
Indeed. Earlier I was lamenting the fact that 99 percent of retail stores are only interested in serving a demographic to which I no longer belong.
i had to deal with madonna with my first daughter. my second thankfully never liked the britney look and was more comfy in khaki dockers and a cotton tee and refused to listen to her fashionista friends and sister.
Margaret and Suzanne,
I couldn’t live without fleece, and I did get cashmere socks at Marshall’s (the only place that wool can touch my body).
My teen years were in the 40s and 50s. Imagine the shock it is to me. My mother had rigid control of my clothes and always made me buy a size larger than I needed. I guess she didn’t want anyone to know that there was a body under there.
i have one pair of cashmere socks and i cherish them and take very very good care of them.
Oh yes, most definitely, thrift stores may not know what they have, and/or may not have staff who can price appropriately. I had a two-piece silk pant suit I bought for $10. It was a very odd outfit for this particular store and its location, which tended to sell a lot more outdoorsy stuff. Bargain!
Two years ago my mom bought a set of folding chairs for her enclosed patio. The store was stumped on pricing because they were so unique — leather seats on walnut frames. Another bargain at $100 for six chairs.
I hate that! I’m sorry if my proportions aren’t what is considered “ideal”. Honestly I think almost all womens’ clothes are designed with men in mind. They’re designed so we look fetching more than they are designed for utility.
Hey Suzanne!
I have two pair, and am known to wear them both at the same time in winter!
I have seen/heard lots of comments from mothers over the past decade or so that finding clothes for pre-teens that are not Britney-ish is what is difficult. The stores are filled with that stuff, the kids see them on their (unfortunately) star role models, and want them.
Actually, I recall when our public schools decided to go to uniforms (white shirt w/ sleeves and collar, khaki pants or skirts) in the ’90′s, this sort of thing was part of the reason.
I find myself, an old feminist from the early ’70′s, looking around and wondering how this happened.
I was fortunate enough to get all the right advice at the right times.
Right before I started student teaching during college and didn’t look any older than the high school students I was about to teach, my mom took me shopping and bought me 5 suits so I’d have one for each day and there’d be no mistaking that I was the teacher.
Then when I started my first real job at Chase Manhattan Bank downtown New York, after about a week of work, my supervisor told me to lengthen all my skirts (on those same suits). He also told a couple of the guys to wear dark sox instead of white sox. We all did what we were told.
Then, much later, when I was going back into computer programming ahead of the Y2K expected crisis, my friend who was a head hunter in the industry told me to buy two suits – one for the initial interview and one for when they called me back for the second interview. She said I’d have no time to shop for just the right suit from when they called me and when I needed to appear. She was so right. When I got the job, she’d just lost a bunch of weight and had no money so I sent her a check so she could go get herself a slinky blank dress. Win-win.
I totally agree; it’s also hard to raise males.
But if you’re at all familiar with Hanna Anderssen children’s clothing, I can’t say enough good things about that company (!). They have clothing that is made for kids — not mini-sexualized adults. The fabrics are beautiful and last wonderfully. And kids look like kids.
When my daughter was in kindergarten and 1st grade, I was just appalled at the lacy, tight things some of the kids in her class were dressed in — apart from the fact that I have no idea how a child runs around and plays in those little tight, lacy, sexual things.
Hanna clothing is made for kids to look like kids, but still be able to move easily.
And having spent her childhood in Hanna’s, it was a lot less traumatic when my daughter hit the teen years to steer her toward some attractive clothing. And she’s since watched other young women make some ‘clothing errors’ that cost them promotions or credibility.
I wouldn’t look fetching in Armani. I’ve had 4 children and the waist went away a long time ago. I need tube clothes.
MrCE and I are also fems from the early 70′s. We blame SEVENTEEN MAGAZINE.
my second girl went to private school and wore a uniform from k – 6th grade. sure made finding school clothes a much easier parenting process — maybe that is why she never went into the britney preteen look — she didn’t have much exposure to it other than when hanging with her non-school friends.
I know the feeling, though I never had children. I rue the long nights with a movie and ice cream. I’ve finally gotten back down to a size ten but I’m afraid I’ll never be smaller than that again, short of forced starvation.
Thanks, Rayne. The post is a crack-up! And needed.
Rayne, I hope that it lands in a few Inboxes of people who need it.
One of the less pleasant tasks that I ever took on was tipping off a young person about the need for improved Personal Hygiene. She was really, really hurt initially — and I nearly got sued. Fortunately, I’d cleared it ahead of time with the people who needed to know. And basically, that person would have been DOA without the heads-up.
Very awkward, unpleasant, and difficult.
But not as bad as seeing an earnest young person sidelined because they happened to come from a family that didn’t explain the basics of deodorant, dental floss, and appropriate necklines.
It all turned out well in the end, but I do have some sense of how really tough it is to have these kinds of conversations — which is probably why this post is being cc’d. Because no one wants to get sued for telling their interns to raise the dress code bar, and it’s hard to find the energy to do the work that their own parents should have done, but didn’t.
You’re doing yeoman’s work here.
Good on you.
HAH! Instant flashback!! I was a young 20-something when Madonna’s first couple of albums were released. One Halloween my then-boyfriend and I were invited to a Bad Taste costume party — the kind where everybody’s costume is over the top, outlandish and horridly un-PC. One couple we knew went as Central American hurricane victims, another couple went in blackface as pygmies (never spoke a word of English all night, had bones in their noses and used canning jar rings as earrings).
I went as Madonna, ridiculously short skirt and fishnet tights and wild hair — and fake fur under my armpits, held in place with eyelash adhesive.
At some point I’d had plenty to drink but was getting annoyed with the flap of fake fur hanging under my arm. While chatting with someone, I casually (and inebriatedly) yanked at the fur. AAAAGGGHHHHHH!!!! I’d taken a hunk of skin with it.
Yes, young and stupid. Been there, done that. Even interned, too.
When I was a kid there were stores in the area that sold clothing that complied with the local dress codes. I guess there just isn’t enough profit in it anymore. Why sell a plain white top for 15 dollars when you can sell one with less fabric for 200?
Suz,
It’s amazing how kids are different. My older son was always pretty independent about styles and the ‘in’ crowd. But my younger son has been driven by that stuff all his life. He even drinks some ‘energy’ drink or another. He offered me a taste of it once — I thought it was pretty foul, and asked him if he liked the taste. He said, not especially, but all the cool people drink it.
Sigh.
Ouch! That hurts me thinking about it. On that note, I’m off to bed. Oyasumi nasai kaji koinu. :-)
Yep, as I am still hoping to find another job one day (weak grin here), and my proportions don’t match what’s in fashion, I am thinking I need to revive my sewing skills.
Honestly, the return of mini, or even just-above-the-knee skirts is killing my ability to find even an interview style suit with a skirt that’s long enough, especially for my now old knees. 35 years ago I wore skirts to work at a length that I would now frown upon, and my legs were my best feature. No longer, at least above the knee.(Well, and besides, at my age it would just look silly.) But since I’m tall, and live in a region where stores stock more petites than regular sizes, even expensive suits hit 3 or 4 inches above the knee, and that just won’t do.
ROFL!
g’nite margaret
In 1970 I was a freshman at the University of Delaware. I think that every piece of clothing I wore was embroidered to death — jeans up and down the legs, vests and even headbands. History, pals.
Oyasumi, anata ni kansha!
Ah, memories! Around that time I was attaching embroidered appliques to jeans and t-shirts, and even made my own “Mexican”-style embroider blouse. Some hand-embroidery on bought stuff; I remember one where I covered a stain on the collar with a stitched flower. Tye-died in the sink, too.
Aloha, Ya’ll…! I’m at the base camp fixing to head up the mtn…! The next three nites even…! ;-)
tejanarusa (97) — yes, might be time to dust off the sewing skills. One of my close friends who “retired” recently as part of a corporate downsizing is actually looking at doing some sewing and teaching sewing from home to augment her income. Might be an opportunity for you and someone like my friend who can help, who knows? There’s probably somebody in your community who’s pretty good at sewing tailored clothing who can do the parts you’re not comfortable with. Personally, I’d ask my friend to do the jacket to a suit and sew the skirt myself. I can manage a skirt, but not a fitted jacket.
ChristineEdmonson (100) — I took up embroidery right about that time; it’s why I have carpal tunnel today. Remember having a heavily embroidered jean jacket that I wore to shreds.
Oh for sure! I was a stitchery student, so I did a lot of my own, especially to cover stains and holes. Also bought a lot of taped embroidery to sew on hems. Geez, I haven’t thought about this for decades. Thanks Rayne!
Hey, CT! I see you became a front-pager while I was away the last 2 wks. Congrats!
I missed what/where the mountain is, CT — is this on Hawaii or on Maui?
Hey CT! How are the skies there?
You know what’s funny? When embroidery made a come-back a few years ago, I spotted an embroidered ribbon at the fabric store just like one I put on a pair of jeans in the ’70′s – my favorite pair, also worn to shreds, like Rayne’s jacket.
Mahalo, TJ…! Sunday and Mon. LL Nites…! ;-)
seems this is ladies fashion show tonight CT……..☺ ☺ ☮ ☮ ☮
peace symbol, peace symbol, peace symbol…
Woo hoo!
Mauna Kea, on the Big Isle…!
Oh nahant,
that wasn’t our intention. Don’t tell me you didn’t have a hippie outfit that you LOVED!
Oh, gawd, yes. Today, of course, having become an ol’ curmudgeon, it kinda ticks me off to see all the peace symbol jewelry. Guess I feel like it’s just for show, no meaning to it.
OTOH, the other day in Baltimore I saw a bumper sticker: [peace symbol] Back! By popular demand!
is this really on firedoglake? disappointed.
Straight guys only don’t complain because they don’t know how to put it appropriately, unless the person is a direct report. But it would be a mistake to think they don’t appreciate professionalism in attire. It makes it easier to concentrate on the job, which is why one comes to work in the first place.
Hey I am guy.. clothes .. so!! But I was at Woodstock … dose that count for anything CE?
Oh, check back in the morning for crying out loud.
Oh yes! And I SO WANTED to be there. I was just a shade too young. Like by a year. My brother went, and I was so envious.
My first embroidery project was on a male friend’s plain grey vest. I made snakes coming up out of each of the pockets with the heads of goats in profile. It was really cool. He loved it.
Oh cool! if you’re near a drug store, be sure to pick up a small bottle of white rum or vodka for Pele. Pour it out near a vent for her – just be sure not to inhale near the vent.
And I hear it’s really dry, especially on the west side. Be careful.
It was my welcomed back to the USA celebration after two years in Europe in the Army…
Wow! I am impressed. My speed was more like roses and and butterflies and those paisley-shapes. No imagination.
I wasn’t too young – except that the age of majority was 21, and I was 19. My parents wouldn’t let me go. And I was basically obedient. Didn’t know anybody going from Indiana, anyway, or I might have been tempted to try to make the trip without their finding out.
With my luck, I’d have been in one of the iconic photos published everywhere and the jig would’ve been up.
Yes, I think the straight guys are feeling the last couple decades of diversity training, are worried if they say anything it will be taken the wrong way.
That was one reason I had to write something. They are uncomfortable with it in the work place, it’s confusing and sends conflicting messages to see such relaxed attire. They’d rather the environment was more predictable and safer, no chance of slipping and saying the wrong thing if there’s nothing inflaming them. I know I’m going to have to have this conversation with my son in a few years when he’s old enough to intern.
Pick Yer Genre’s, Dalhing>
*G*
I knit my first sweater for myself with a very intricate pattern of American Indian birds – black on a mauve sweater. Lots of work. When I was finished I had to find someone who had big breasts to give it to – it sure didn’t fit me. Did I mention that was also the last sweater I knit?
Ya tenderfoot, ya . . .
Nice post, and a great rant!
Blessings Of Teh Dawg Upon Ya!
*G*
Yeah but your parents would say “That a Little birdie told them”.. and you would have been grounded… damn..
LOL!
You have to ASK these questions?
C’mon, yer as well informed as the rest of us.
It’s all crooked, it’s all rigged, and sex sells.
Yer not naive, are ya?
;-)
Wow! That must have been a shock!
My situation mirrors yours.
I guess I should get myself to sleep, y’all. This has been fun. G’nite, everybody! West coasters, carry on!
Look, I’ve worked in the corporate world and in the nonprofit world. Whatever’s going on in the Beltway is very different from what’s going on out here in the real world. It’s been bad for a long time, have a cousin who worked in DC back in the early 1970s who literally fled some unspecified, never discussed scandal. But it’s not getting better, it’s getting worse in spite of years of the Bible-thumpers who’ve been beating a tattoo on the pavement and in the hallways of DC. What the hell does this mean? It’s not that sex sells, because for the interns I’m addressing, it will actually do quite the opposite. It’s like the city needs a plague of locusts or frogs to snap it out of its toxic descent.
g’nite tejan
Sleep well!
Ok, but ya shifted gears here.
DC is full of locusts, that’s a different post.
And I loved yours, up above.
Thank you.
*G*
A very welcomed one though Very Welcomed!! Ya kinda miss the states after two years away..
Lord that describes me and mine.
It’s all gone insane. ;-)
Yeah, and not a spit lickin bit about lingerie . . .
Or other female accroutements.
*G*
Or they could just want that job you’re applying for, and figure that knocking you out of the competition, based on your totally inappropriate attire, is okay in today’s competitive environment.
Just wanted drop in and say hi,
and please, I hope that you are laughing
as hard as me seeing another Democrats
picture all around the web claiming to be
the peace candidate. I gues you know it is Grayson
I am talking about, the Dems new Saviour, probably
along with Whitehouse. They don’t give up
trying to decieve , do they.???
Oh my goodness. Had a car speed through our neighborhood. Woke our youngest up and I could not get to sleep. It’s 4 AM…So I decided to read…Rayne.
Love the post. So spot on. My daughter cannot stand the “Hoochie Mama” clothes out there. We have to go through quite an effort to find tasteful, well made clothes at bargain prices. This past Spring, a group of parents found themselves all enjoying the 80% off sale at ColdWater Creek in order to put their daughters into something the daughters were comfortable wearing for Easter (not to mention something with sleeves).
We all were thankful to meet one another. Our daughters were glad to meet other girls who like to wear sporty, classic, tasteful, and practical clothing.
“Sluts R Us” designs seems to be the majority of clothing out there. My sewing classics also helps the budget. Our thrift stores are hit and miss on classic and tasteful items.
So I have a question for everyone. How do you like the paper thin cotton t-shirts out there? I have yet to find a good quality tailored double gauge 100% cotton t that is not see through. Unless I layer three, which is such a wonderfully green fashion concept./s
hate to rain on a post, especially after it’s long old but I must
as far as I’m concerned one of the very things wrong with our society is how even the liberals have turned into concervatives
sorry, there was nothing wrong with mini skirts when I was growing up and there’s nothing wrong with them now, there was nothing wrong with sexuality when then nor now
sexuality happens to be a force of nature, it’s vilinizing that force that gives political figures power and they know it and use that power
but that’s just me I suppose, though I haven’t read the entire comments section to see if others have made similar points
anyway, I loved my childhood, loved the way we lived and learned, about life and ourselves and as far as I am concerned, even the liberals are starting to act like the concervatives we once deplored
I’ve worked at a job that’s so casual that when people wear a collared shirt, other people ask if they’re going to a funeral. I’m ruined in the workforce and can only work for my company ever. I have not even gone to the level you would consider “business casual” in twenty years. Actually, I think I might own one or two suits and the tuxedo I bought when I got married. Honestly, if I ever worked at a job where I needed a suit, I’d just wear the same one every day. Much more economical.
I know a gal who works in DC and she says the interns have been trying to wear midriff tops there for the better part of a decade. They haven’t quite succeeded yet but she dreads the day when they do, especially those in DIA.
Mauimom (144) — yeah, that goes to the agenda. The majority of interns are still too young to have a finely tuned sense of skepticism.
klynn (146) — hope you were able to get back to sleep! Went shopping with my teen daughter this week, ended up frustrated trying to find clothing that actually offered some value for the money — you know, actual fabric. The t-shirts are very crappy, don’t hold up. I think as somebody mentioned upthread, Land’s End is one of those better outlets which still produces a better quality product; I know their t-shirts aren’t transparent.
perris (147) — when you have a teenage daughter or son, come back and revisit this topic. And mini-skirts back in the day have nothing on what’s being offered for clothing now. If you’ve never been sexually harassed at work, perhaps you don’t have an understanding what’s at risk. Many of the women I know have been harassed, and clothing tends to exacerbate the problem with a number of lecherous assholes.
Regarding sexuality: interns are at an age where they are still learning what’s appropriate in the workplace. Sex isn’t; it puts young people in a vulnerable position when they are unwittingly sending messages about availability in the workplace while they are subordinates. Adults are supposed to know better, but they obviously don’t; removing the non-work-related messages about sexuality due to inappropriate clothing from work environ will reduce the opportunity for abuse.
Phoenix Woman (148) — Funny you should mention DIA. Ahem.
the mini skirts when I grew up were the same, certianly not longer, it all depended on who was doing the wearing
the conditions are the same as they were when I was growing up, some people liked wearing them and the attention, some people didn’t
the only thing differant is our perspective
Love this.
Really? I’ll call bullshit on that. I actually wore miniskirts back in the 60s-70s; they didn’t have skirts that literally consisted of a six-inch wide swath of Spandex fabric that didn’t cover one’s derrière cleavage and allowed a glimpse of briefs while standing. Nor were there thong underwear back in the day worn so that the top of the band was clearly visible above the top of the skirt (I can’t call this a waistline because it’s well below the top of the hips).
And any girl who attempted this kind of stuff back then would have been physically removed from school or work, so attitudes have clearly changed.
What hasn’t changed is how men treat women who wear this kind of clothing; they think of them as sex objects and not as legitimate partners in business, politics or education. It’s a very simple proposition for young women to learn: Keep the focus on the brains by removing other points of focus.
I agree with you on this Rayne. The new mini is not called “pee length” for nothing.
Just how do you measure “Pee Length” for a woman???…