It appears that most of the drill, baby, drill crowd are more clueless than other people.

I sure do hope that there’s a good L&O rerun I can watch instead of the oval office jerk.

But will someone please do a “folks” count from the speech for me? Thanks.

dewmocracynow: the Newburg, NY “terrorists” were entrapped by the FBI. Dya think? Hasn’t been a case of “terrorism” since 9/11 that hasn’t had a good dose of USG incitement.

For myself, I’m going to watch the speech. Just not the inane , prattling, “analysis” that comes after. I’m perfectly capable of judging for myself what people say, thank you. Except Sarah Palin of course. If I was interested in what she says, I would need someone to translate her words, rather than analyze them.

You have a stronger stomach than I do.

Maybe I’m just a glutton for punishment. :-)

Reminds me of the old joke: Masochist sez to the sadist, “Hit me.” Sadist sez “No.”

Brings back memories of the “pizza terrorists” in NJ.

Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family’s nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza, and knew the area “like the palm of his hand,” according to a defendant.

I’m gonna play a g droppin’ drinkin’ game.

LMAO! I like it!

Exactly. The unfortunate aspect is that the USG strong armed them all into a plea bargains, as the defendants knew that they were up against the full force of prosecutors and pols who needed headline ‘wins’ against ‘terrorism.’ It’s a miracle that the Newburgh defendants got ahold of docs that showed the entrapment.

Oh dear, you’ll be drunk before the third paragraph.

It’s taken for granted here that the offshore oil industry has their act together when it comes to drilling. The flamingo-up (which is a cock-up, only much worse) unfolding in the GOM presents stark and unequivocal evidence that the oil industry is incompetent in basic practices of exploration and extraction of undersea hydrocarbon muck. Forget about clean-up, they’re lacking in the basics.

No doubt the FOX crowd will be annoyed when he doesn’t make any “homey” Bushisms, like “The future will look better tomorrow” or “Is our children learning”.

I’ve been asserting for a couple of days now that there is no way to stop the gusher. I finally concluded that because, if there were, after 50+ days, it would have been done already. So now I’m watching to see how soon it dawns on others. And how long it takes them to outloud it.

I’m not aware of the outcome of the pizza gang, but I don’t believe they had as strong legal backing, and I believe most did time.

In one recording cited in court documents, Tatar raised the possibility that the informant worked for the FBI and acknowledged the risk of sharing the map.

Mornin’, BT, pups

So Mr Obama is gonna tell us how tough he is by asking BP to set up an independent entity to process and pay claims. Gee, I wonder if that will work out as well as tellin’ ‘em to use a dispersant other than the apparently toxic Corexit.

Can’t get fooled again.
Morning all, I’m back.

BP has been more concerned with stopping the leak and trying to recover as much oil as it can. Clean up has been secondary to this entire operation. Trying to lay this off as an event for which we do not have adequate clean up technology is a farce. BP dropped the ball on containment and clean up.

Meanwhile the administration’s top priority was making sure that we all knew that this was BPs fault and that the administration would make them pay. They sent lawyers before they sent boom. Furthermore, state-of-the-art Dutch skimmers were offered to the US on DAY 3. The State Department gave them a lovely ‘thanks but no thanks’ letter.

Kinda makes you wonder why they got permitted, doesn’t it? I mean think about it. What if someone wanted to build a nuclear reactor but when asked if they knew what to do if the thing went critical, the builder shrugged his or her shoulders? This oil has the potential of being much, much worse for the environment but since it’s the word “oil” rather than the word “nuclear”, it was handled with a grin and a wink. I think if you plan on building a theater and an office, BOTH ought to be up to fire code.

I’m countin’ on it!

BP has been more concerned with stopping the leak and trying to recover as much oil as it can.

That, my friend is the biggest pantload I’ve heard in a long, long time. Obviously they’ve been trying to recover it from the start. They have always been more interested in salvaging their investment than the Gulf. And this technology is, undeniably out of date. It’s like trying to fight a fire in a 100 story building with technology designed for a ten story structure.

Hasn’t been a case of “terrorism” since 9/11

9/11 needs to be rebranded from a case of “terrorism” to a case of falling on the sword for the Dick Cheney. Purple Hearts should be awarded posthumously.

Not being a geologist, I was thinking that at some point the artesian presssure will drop to a point where sea water will inundate the well, reducing the gusher to a never ending seepage. Either that or the cavity will collapse, releasing the oil in one few swoop.

Here’s a story that will get a few of you chuckling.

Morning demi? Having a better morning, I hope? :-)

I’m okey dokey. Thanks for asking.

Arms upraised, “May lightening strike me down if I have sinned.”

Right? What if they again tell him, “Nah, we’d rather not”? BP has lied from the beginning and asking us to treat any action they take with credibility is just ridiculous.

Mother nature sure has a sense of humor.

He’ll go back on the tube and say, “Well, we tried but they’re the ones with the campaign money expertise.”

If the pool of oil is as big as is being hinted, and goes as deep, it might be quite awhile until the pressure diminishes.

Anyhow, my hypothesis arises from complete ignorance, just casual observation. Always willing to change my mind on this one.

Thanks. I needed that.

It may be years for the finale , but obama said we will restore the Gulf to it’s former glory right after it stops. Good luck down there.

I disagree.

First, to drill or not to drill is a policy decision with inherent risks. The deeper the drilling, the riskier the venture. So basically you are strting with a situation that is all about damage control from the get go.

Cutting costs and corners to maximize profits and stay on schedule, as well as turning a blind eye to advance warning signs, most likely caused this disaster.

Given the risky nature of deep water drilling and given the propensity for large multi-national corporations to maximize profits, with whom should the responsibility for the deep water drilling policy decision, and the responsibility for protecting our national coastline lie?

Who in this administration trusted BP to put clean up and containment BEFORE stopping the leak and recovering lost oil?

Guest on democracynow sez O does not live in a reality-based world. Dya think?

So you are defending BP? Well, we just couldn’t get on top of it because our technology is sooo out of date. Talk about a pantload.

I always find it interesting how the religious folk always manage to rationalize away such events which clearly demonstrate the randomness of the universe over their organized, sky daddy run model.

He lives in Milton Friedman’s world.

Please don’t feed…

So you are defending BP?

Now I KNOW you watch FAUX “News”! How you get that I’m defending BP is just inconceivable to me. But then I’m a rational reality based person, not a right wing oriented person trying to pass myself off as an independent.

The thing is, I’m never just a little p o’d. When it happens, I go to “eleven”, but I almost always get over it quickly. Although when it comes to things like the oil gush and the corporations getting away with winks and shrugs, I could stay angry for a long time. :)

Yes, on economics. Subject on dn happens to be Afghanistan, where O lives in the neocon world.

I have always thought that Obama is a narcissist who suffers from ‘magical thinking.’ Like a pharoah proclaiming “so let it be written, so let it be done” he believes that the power of his words transcends the need to actually do the down and dirty work of governing. He always seems so annoyed with actually having to do anything other than proclaim his wishes. He prefers to rule. But the problem with that is, we don’t want a ruler, we want a leader.

You’re right. Must we go through this every day? Bye, bye Indie. I’ll no longer respond to any of your comments.

I was at a service once where the electricity went out. The pastor said the devil was ruining her service. It was a blown fuse, for goodness sake. Last time I ever went to that church.

I know a good many people like that demi, my brother being one. I’m much more slow to anger but also slow to get over it. I have been known to hold legendary grudges.

Not a lot of difference. Kristol once said if the term neocon became too divisive they’d just switch to neoliberal.

You just come over and sit with me, dear.

Seems like a string of those in the oval office.

heh

Palin’s preacher would have insisted that it was the work of (Democratic) witches.

Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Smart.

I have been known to hold legendary grudges.
That would make a great t shirt for you, then.

Freakin’ wackos. What was that I said the other day about not liking name calling? I’m a hypocrite.

The technology exists to clean this up. Yes, BP is to blame, but to let them get away with a lame answer like ‘we don’t have up to date equipment’ is ridiculous.

Yes, BP is responsible for the events that led up to the explosion and should pay for the damage the explosion caused but I cannot believe that ANYONE would trust BP with the containment and clean up efforts when clearly they have less motivation for protecting our shores than the federal, state and local governments do.

No doubt I would wear that one until it’s scraps fell off my body

Neoliberal. n. A neocon who wishes to take advantage of the resources of the Democratic Party.

Yeah but sometimes you gotta call a wacko a wacko. :-)

That’s about the size of that I reckon…

Unfortunately. Lately I’ve been running through WWHD scenarios. You know, What would Hillary do?

I wonder if they found any teabags?

My boss is like that. Carried a grudge against his mother until she died, fer cryin’ out loud. Then was all remorseful an’ shit about it. He still holds a grudge against some guy from 20+ years ago. Boss bein’ a control freak the guy prolly wouldn’t agree with him on some idiot idea boss had.

So, I guess my t shirt would read Cute Hypocrite.

She’s more neocon than O, and it was her husband who started the neolibrul economics program. So we can thank goodness we got the lesser of 3 evils.

More wackos.

Carrying around a grudge that long would be fairly exhausting.

This ad shouldn’t be called “gather your armies”. It should be called “gather your period costumes and KMart shirts”…

I was thinking something like Political Vixen for you demi.

Heh. I gave up my antipathy toward the sons of my late husband the exact minute they stopped their lawsuits against me. It is was a 5-year slog, and that was long enough.

Lucky the guards at McDill didn’t shoot ‘em. Testy bunch out there. Small contingent of Veterans for Peace folks are across the street from the main gate a lot. We’ve had stuff thrown at us from cars leaving the base.

Well I wasn’t that silly about it anyway. Though it is pretty much axiomatic that if someone screwed me over somehow in the past, even if I forgave them, I never trusted them again or put myself into a position to be taken advantage of again.

Snort. Made me laugh.

Oh, life’s too short. There’s one person I’ll be holding a grudge against for a long time, though. Break my heart and you’re in big trouble. *g*

OK. dn is over. I’m off. Have great days everyone.

If you make it to the pool, don’t forget your sunblock. Have fun.

Testy bunch out there

Don’t I know it! We had a bird land there once with a bad brake and I went to fix it. I was in the United States Navy and had an active duty ID card. Those guys, while not pointing their weapons exactly at me, were not pointing them exactly away from me either and I was given a long list of places not to go. Here’s another hint: They are serious about security so making a joke about giving away the secrets of the calfax fastener to the Russians is not met with a hearty laugh.

The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. O is such an empty suit, such a purely political creature and as much as you may wish…NOT a progressive.

True dat.

As an aside, I got a bunch of pix from the ex yesterday and omg there’s a pic of me in a flak jacket right after I got to Nam. One of the few pix of me in country. Burglars got ‘em all when I lived in San Diego. Also included some of my bud Rich when we were in SF after we go back. Died in a swimming accident in the mid 70s.

Later eCAHN!

From the story,

The sculpture, 62 feet tall and 40 feet wide at the base, showed Jesus from the torso up and was nicknamed Touchdown Jesus because of the way the arms were raised, similar to a referee signaling a touchdown.

Nonsense! Everyone knows that Touchdown Jesus is on the Hesburgh Library at the University of Notre Dame!

http://media.photobucket.com/image/touchdown%20jesus/inutero2/TouchdownJesus.jpg

LOL

Houston and San Diego. Those were the very worst places I’ve lived when it came to f*cking thieves. Don’t know why but that’s my experience.

And on topic — I am really more concerned about the rising discussions about the instability of the oil under the sea floor, and that we may have many unstoppable leaks that will make a relief well a waste of time.

Or traffic directing Jesus. Or, the one that got away Jesus.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

What If You Knew

US KIA Irak: 4,405

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,115

Iraki and Afghan casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2010: 20,460 and counting

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

I was burgled once. I had come home for lunch and apparently scared them off. They took some stuff though, but the police caught them. I never got my things back. Cops said they needed it as evidence for the trial. Sheet.

BP has lied from the outset. It’s all been misdirection and bull pucky. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are drilling not a relief well but a new production well. That way they can say “Oops! We missed the well” and still recover their investment.

I’m wondering if anyone is studying the effects of this clusterfuck on plankton. Kill the plankton and you might as well turn out the lights…

All of the foreign currency I collected from various overseas places was stolen from me. What makes it worse is that I know when the thief saw that the money was foreign, he undoubtedly just threw it away. Damn it! I’ll never go back to those places!

I hope they’re not reading here. Oops.

I’m not sure what this has to do with my comment. Rachel was talking about BP’s lack of state of the art containment and cleanup capabilities. Someone else here pointed out the technology is pretty advanced and deployed elsewhere.

I argued that BP has no competency wrt exploration and extraction. They’ve shown profound incompetence at the refinery level.

On your point about maximizing profits, these calculations you allude to invariably ignore the social costs. This is where the government could draw the line when permitting.

The one brilliant thing Rachel did was utterly debunk the notion that innovation is a result of free market economics.

Like SD, my parents house was broken into and they took a bunch of slides from when my sisters and I were young. I’m sure they threw those away too. Time for name calling.

I’m also concerned about what happens when this reaches the arctic zone where the cooler water dives underneath. That is a very fragile system and oil is buoyant. Shut down thermal convection and we have real problems.

Same with all my slides and stills. I know they went into the trash somewhere.

There aren’t any names bad enough for a thief demi!

Nothing worse than a thief. Even a murderer is a thief.

Yep. Again, no life form lower than a thief.

I owe you a drink.

But I have to get started on my day. I’ll see you fine folks later on no doubt. Be good!

BP is a thief.

Have a very fine day, my friend.

You do the same. And would you look at that? I’m number 100! WooHoo! What do I win?

Big old hug.

New post up top…

FDL might as well be an arm of the Corporate Democratic Establisment. Folks like Emptywheel would find some place to publish online, so this way a corporate shill site like this can at least get positive PR value out of it by making the overall FDL effort seem progressive and un-co-opted.

Meanwhile, they channel dissaffected progressives right back to corporate propoganda media by their near daily promotion of corporate propogandist Maddow by desperate establishment wanna-be blue texan. Just look at the start of Maddows show last night. She took a shot a libertarians and republicans for a spill that is near fully of Obamas making. Bush didnt appoint Salazar. Bushs MMS didnt waive the need for enviornmental review. But thats not was democratic establishment propogandist do.

FDL also religiously frames the discussion in a right vs left dynamic promoting the fundemental racket of a sham two party system that is really two faces of one corporate party.

And then when you look at FDLs activism, not whats typed but what it actually does, it gathers funds from dissaffected progressives and channels them right back into the Democratic party. Remember the fund drives for Weiner, Grayson, and Kucinich before who all predictiably sold out on HCR? You all do know Halter was a democrat right? That means all that advertizing at its most fundemental level, still propped up the same corporate establisment FDL so often claims to challenge. It was still Democratic Party advertising. Pretty good magic trick. Turn people pissed off with your party into new donors.

I dont know if FDL is intentionally working as a wing of the corporate democratic establisment, but they are doing a bang up job of it either way.

Innovation will therefore be imposed through taxation, and those powerful enough to rig the system will profit handsomely. Cars do not run on wind and solar power or pixie dust for that matter. $8 gas MAY force technological advancement but with great cost to our economy. The ‘green economy’ in Spain, with which Obama is so enthralled, is a disaster.

Obama speaks of ‘transition costs’ but this cap and trade scam will allow Al Gore, Goldman Sachs, BP and every other Obama cronies to profit.

If we want to break our addiction to foreign and domestic oil we should engage on a modern day version of the ‘space race’, a national showcase of American imagination and innovation. Capture the ‘can-do’ American spirit add competition and entrepreneurship, heck package it as a realty TV show and get the public on board. Venture capitalists are always looking for the next, best idea…intelligent and enterprising young minds are always looking to the future.

Did we need taxes to create the PC? Or any other great technological advancement? No, we just needed to create the demand.

Maddow is to the Democratic Establishment and their corporate overlords at GE what Limbaugh is to the GOP Establishment.

I loved that last night on “Countdown”, K.O. finally got around to his version of last weeks’ NY Times story of BP and the Obama Administration double-teaming the media’s coverage of the Gulf Oil spill by restricting access to, and coverage of the disaster site.

Except…in Olbermann’s account, there was no Obama Administration in the narrative. Keith’s “Rashoman” description of the deliberate effort to keep the media from doing its job was eerily reminiscent of news coverage in the old Soviet bloc, or any generic dictatorship, really.

Fortunately for the viewers of this farce, MSNBC is on an ever-shrinking list of MSM outfits still willing to cover up, or make excuses for, the woeful incompetence of the Obama Administration in responding to this disaster.

Imagine how Olbermann’s fantasy alter-ego, Edward R. Murrow would be covering this story…while Keith hasn’t got a clue.

For Rachel Maddow and the oil spill, the Obama Administration has become “the love that dare not speak its name”.

Yeah, well, Keith’s still not over that “2/3rds of his show is entertainment” which all news became during Bush after the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine

It’s now 3/3rds…

Last night’s story about the media coverage was pure fantasy.

So true. Just remember that GE and the Obama administration are thick as thieves and there will be a concerted effort on the part of the talking heads at MSNBC to start pushing cap and trade. The climate profiteers can smell your money and funny, it smells just like the stink from an oil spill.

Respectfully, I am as furious as anyone toward Obama and his serious serious flaws but I fail to see how turning every conversation into a bash him will facilitate the recovery from this disaster.

Rachel Maddow is bringing her educated intellect to an astounding volume of well researched information on BP, the clean up efforts and most important the expanse of the ecological effects.

I personally think the country would be a lot better off if we could support the Obama administration when it is right as well as elucidate its faults.

Good points, TS-

But I would ask…how can you cover this story without ever mentioning the responsibility of, the involvement of, and the accountability of…

The Obama Administration?

How is that possible?

Rachel Maddow is bringing her educated intellect to an astounding volume of well researched information on BP, the clean up efforts and most important the expanse of the ecological effects.

What her efforts seem to be aimed at is isolating the overall blame of this disaster primarily to BP, and then to Democratic party rivals when able in her typical snarky way.

If she were actually covering the story as a real journalist, she couldnt ignore the party thats actually in power while all this happened. Journalist actually challenge the government not seek to immunize it. But she isnt covering the story as a journalist. She is using the crisis to peddle more propoganda. She is on MSNBC. MSNBC is corporate propoganda. And for some reason FDL continually peddles it as journalism to their readers.

Your point is well taken. I think she actually is making some telling points re the failure of the entire system that Obama collaborates in ie trusting our most precious and vulnerable assets to the whims of for profit corporatism.

An awful lot of Obama’s failings with this mess are of style and not substance, and I do think his style of leadership is harmful to the country. But right now the disaster is so great it just doesn’t make sense to me to focus on that.

What perhaps Rachel needs to show more of as Anderson Cooper is on CNN is the obvious lack of organization and capacity to organize and employ assets to deal with a national disaster

That’s your take. I respectfully disagree. I do not think her approach is political as you frame it.

If you would tear down the only leader we have to deal with this cataclysm, what would you replace him with?

Aaaaand so, has the penny dropped yet that the much vaunted private sector is as incompetent or worse than the gov’t at running things?? And I agree with an early eCAHN post that I don’t believe BP is able to stop this oil volcano, although I also don’t believe that BP *really tried* to stop it at first. I think at first BP was just trying to figure out how to syphon off the oil to make gushers of $$$$. Now, they’re *starting* (at day 50 or whaever) to sweat some bullets FINAlLY figuring out that they don’t know shite from shinola.

Has anyone out there – wether right or left, serf or basillionaire – actually grasped the fact that the private sector is waaaaaaaaay incompetent and clueless????

They main way that the private sector makes money – well the really big industries (not talking so much about the mom & pop stuff) – is by ripping off in one way or the other. Using wage slaves here or offshore. Using undocumented workers here for paltry wages in unsafe conditions (and then the workers get all the hassle and blame, while the business owner doesn’t even get a tap on the wrist).

Also by getting loads and loads of tax breaks and incentives by WE the people via our elected lobbyists in local, state and federal gov’t who are literally in bed with the corporations. And then, no regulations to come to bear anymore on private sector industries, even when there are genuine safety concerns. Wouldn’t want to, you know, *inconvenience* the industries in any way, now would we?

I could go on. For the Libertarians out there: the so called “free market” ain’t free. It’s massively rigged in favor of the giant corporations. Everyone is in bed with the lobbyists and the fat cat CEOs. So, the notion that the “market” will “take care” of problems – while *theory* is nice – doesn’t hold water in today’s world.

These corporations are huge, overbloated, the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing. They’re ALL been vastly rewarded for giant incompetence (witness Carly Fiorina for one tiny example), and so, we have situations like this oil volcano. Yet and still, no doubt the Rush Limbaughs of the this planet are busy dissing us DFH enviro-Nazi’s, and the beat goes on….

The private sector is incompetent, run by cronies who reward failure even more than success, they don’t have good procedures in place, and half the time they don’t really know what the heck they’re doing. It’s just “cut corners,” and to heck with the serfs bc there’s more where they came from.

Has anyone out there – wether right or left, serf or basillionaire – actually grasped the fact that the private sector is waaaaaaaaay incompetent and clueless????

I certainly have but my influence is less than that of a tree frog.

I think that is an aspect of what Maddow is doing — presenting the broader picture of how private for profit business is incompetent as to attending to the public welfare — And also a government that functions to serve the interest of business and trade as its highest priority will neglect the interests of the public good. The turning over spill cleanups in 1990 to for profit business was as crazy as anything this government has done.

This is what the voting public must grasp to change it.

This is what obama’ists have been reduced to? Dont critizise the dear leader because the next one could be worse? Thats like pre-emptive LOTE voting lol. I guess it does fit right with Obamas obsessions with preventative actions from renditions, detentions, to assasinations.

Obama is just a new face on the same system. Or are you one of those who were willing to hold Bush responsible for the same kinda stuff you now say shouldnt be laid at the feet of the Obama administration?

Tribalism, its whats for dinner.

The Gulf, in fact the earth, is dying and you want to pick a fight with some other tribe.

Of course Obama is “just another face on the same system.” I couldn’t agree more. I think Maddow is doing a great job of describing and making that system understandable.

Do you want to impeach Obama disempower him, while the Gulf dies?

You did not answer my question; who or what would you replace Obama with.?

I assume the VP would have to take over. And if they also behave like war criminals who violate the geneva conventions with “look forward not backward” rhetoric, then you impeach them, send them to the hague for prosecution, and you keep doing that until you get someone that will actually uphold the US Constitution and its treaty obligations under the Constitution. (you know, actually follow the oath they take)

.

It feels so good to spin these fantasies but they are just that. In the meantime, the planet dies

I had hoped with the election of Obama that GW Bush and Cheney would be being tried as war criminals now. Instead we got the same thing. However there has to be a functioning government in place for all this happens.

Our focus has to be on democratically replacing this administration with one that will reverse the laws and decisions permitting criminal human rights violations and prosecute Bush and Obama administration and the judges and lawyers.

Obama swore , on Lincolns bible no less, to faithfully defend and uphold the constitution. He lied. He had no intention to follow the rule of law rather Nancy’s law of “its off the table” rather than that’s not in the constitution.

He loves killing strangers and I believe you can’t have a moral based president. He loves the power of life and death like god has and has made himself a god also.

Keep quiet or you may be the next illegal combatant not worthy , in obama’s eyes , of living.

I suggest those of you who favor the anarchist’s solutions read something of the French Revolution. It was begun by a bunch of intellectually enlightened basically liberals. Just cutting off heads doesn’t restore virtue.

It’s good to see Rachel holding their feet to the fire. Don’t listen to the whining and crying, keep it up until they say, “Uncle.” Then burn them some more!