Of course this was pre-ordained and arranged. Probably long before the raid took place as a contingency. Nothing Israel does will ever merit a serious response from the United States.

Verdict first (innocent); then the investigation.

I’m sure this will satisfy Turkey.

J Street doesn’t have anything on this investigation.

Oh, I’ll bet the United States is doing it’s best behind the scenes to woo Turkey. I hope it doesn’t work this time. I don’t think it will. Political realities in Turkey these days probably won’t allow it.

Gibbs’ statement reads like an Israeli Embassy press release.

Rice’s statement at the U.N. was even worse.

Gibbs’ statement reads like an Israeli Embassy press release.

That’s because it was without a doubt vetted and edited by them.

Just guessing here, but I think the U.S. hubris of empire is preventing ANY reasonable discussions with anyone, including behind the scenes. If I had to write the U.S.-Turkey discussions, knowing nothing about them, I’d imagine the U.S. stamping its feet and demanding that Turkey agree with everything Israel is doing.

A canadian is involved… Yeah, I’m sure that will help.

Sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that any discussion would be “reasonable”. In fact, I don’t see how any discussion that reflexively defends a terrorist regime can be called reasonable. For all of those who will take exception to this characterization: “terrorist” is the term for those who intentionally cause people to fear and suffer in order to affect political change. You can’t re-define it to not mean Israel. Sorry. I used to be an Israel admirer. The way a horribly oppressed and downtrodden people managed to rise up and become greater and to defend themselves against overwhelming odds. It was inspiring! They gave up the moral high ground decades ago though and now they are little better than their erstwhile oppressors and sinking closer to their level by the day.

The U.S. has to be dangling the carrot of E.U. entry for Turkey.

A right wing friend of mine claims that Arabs have repeatedly refused to deliver aid through the port of Ashdod, a claim I find highly dubious. He demands as proof that Arabs aren’t trying to deliver weapons a list of Arab attempts to get aid through to Gaza via Ashdod. Are there news articles documenting such attempts, if any, or key words I should be looking for in my search for information? Thank you.

Heh!

Tell him that evidence of such doesn’t make it to US newspapers — but if he’s really interested, he can try and figure out why the IDF hasn’t released six of the flotilla members — or the video and computer files they stole from both Gaza flotillas.

Thank you Siun. Another great video.

Mr. Hate Boat’s goons haben Ungeheuren werden.

Can’t imagine the psychological impact of forever being surrounded by crazies who just want to annihilate you and every one else who is not their religion.

Sorry – until rockets stop being fired by Hamas and until Hamas agrees to reject violence as its official policy, there are security problems that Israel has a right to deal with – and calling them “terrorist” so as to put them on the same moral ground as suicide bombing rocket launching folks in GAZA does not make for solutions. The blockade indeed became more than security – trying to hurt GAZA economy and standard of living – and that must change and I expect it to change. The Turks planned to not do a “non-violent protest” – they tried to kill – and some got killed. One IDF person killed 6 of the 9 dead – and that needs investigation – and this will be such an investigation. One IDF person was nearly beaten to death and is in critical condition.

I may be the only leftie on FDL that does not read this as total proof of Israeli terrorist mentality – but then I am old and have been to the region a few times – although not to Israel.

The only solution is the two state solution as in TABA. Getting Hamas to agree to give up the destroy the Jewish state objective would be more productive of peace than doing hate Israel postings.

Think the U.S. has very little say in that. Latest I heard, Turkey’s entry into E.U. is still “10 years” away, anyhow.

they tried to kill

and this will be such an investigation

Assume much?

and calling them “terrorist” so as to put them on the same moral ground as suicide bombing rocket launching folks in GAZA does not make for solutions.

Of course and slaughtering aid workers does lend itself to solutions? How about shooting at people trying to harvest their crops? How about reflexively defending anything that Israel does?
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

— ter·ror·is·tic ˌter-ər-ˈis-tik adjective
How is that different from what israel is doing in Gaza? When was the last time a rocket was fired from Gaza into Israel? Why do children who don’t fire rockets have to suffer and die?

Once again my country has taken an indefensible position that fully deserves expressions of universal scorn, condemnation, and outrage by the nations of the world. One more time I am ashamed to call myself a U.S. citizen. My government disgusts me.

Acts like this justifiably provoke disrespect, anger, and hatred of the United States. In matters of foreign policy, Obama has established by clear, cogent, and convincing evidence that the only thing he is good at is creating more jihadists determined to annihilate the United States.

We have to force him to resign, decide not to run for a second term, or assure his defeat in 2012, to have any hope of saving our country.

One IDF person was nearly beaten to death and is in critical condition.

Cry me a river. A heavily armed guy who was invading a sovereign ship in international waters is in critical condition? Oh, that’s no different than the DEAD, unarmed aid workers who were just trying to feed some people. I think your moral equivalency compass is in need of calibration.

One IDF person killed 6 of the 9 dead – and that needs investigation – and this will be such an investigation. One IDF person was nearly beaten to death and is in critical condition.

Is that one and the same person ?

I guess when the israelis release the electronic recording equipment this week, since they are not weapons, we’ll see a truer picture unlike the cut and splice job we were treated to by our bestest friend israel. They don’t have anything to hide, by stealing someone else’s equipment, do they?

That’s a good question–when WAS the last time a rocket was fired into Israel? Do you know?

Aw, shit, not more “it’s the victims’ fault” horseshit.

Hoo Boy! Look out!

“IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has vowed to breach Israel’s blockade of Gaza, as two aid ships and a military escort prepare to set sail.”

“Ali Shirazi, the Revolutionary Guard’s spokesman for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said it was “Iran’s duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza”.

“Abdolrauf Adibzadeh, the Red Crescent’s director of inter­national affairs, said the ships were being sent in co-ordination with the Turkish government.”

Link.

“Can’t imagine the psychological impact of forever being surrounded by crazies who just want to annihilate you and every one else who is not their religion.”

I don’t think the Israelis want to annihilate everyone else who is not their religion. You on the other hand, maybe…/S

The question I posed was, when was the last time a rocket was fired into Israel from Gaza. That’s important since we are discussing the humanitarian situation in Gaza. And no, I have no idea but I’m sure it would have been splattered across the headlines in bright red letters if it had happened. Considering the position the IDF is in, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were some rocket attacks from Gaza in the very near future but not from Hamas.

That’s all they have left ‘Dragon

Gee, that’s really funny. I thought the original comment was about the Israelis being surrounded. Go figure lol.

I understood your question, and thought it was a good and relevant one. What if the correct answer is, “Not since the blockade was imposed”?

That’s what irony is. What the Israelis have constantly used as a justification, they are now guilty of perpetrating on the residents of Gaza.

Hey I took your land and now you’re all around me. I feel so…. menaced. GENIUSES

That would be irrelevant since one stated purpose of the blockade is to try to force the Gazans away from Hamas.

.

With the internet, cell phones that take pictures and videos, and all of the other instantaneous worldwide communication, it is impossible for israel to control the message of what happened in any incident. I remember when I kept being told that the israelis were so humanitarian that they would do all they could to save people that they had wounded in an unavoidable confrontation. Occasionally a story contradictory to the party line would leak out, but was dismissed as propaganda. Now, the only way to defend the offensive moves by israel is simply to ignore the facts and repeat the talking points.

Speaking of missiles.

You asked the question you now deem irrelevant.

Margaret, and Siun,

First and foremost, you have to understand one simple premise: The state of Israel is nothing more than a United States overseas military installation. Once you understand that, then you will accept the fact that there will never be any “real” and serious criticism of the Likud mass murder regime. All intelligent people know what the state of Israel represents to the U.S. Uncle Sam could care less about Jews in particular, just ask Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter. Israel is the Cerberus, (Three headed dog that guarded the entrance to Hades or Hell in Greek Mythology) of the Arab Muslim World. If you want real change in policy vis a vis Israel and the Arab/Muslim World, then get rid of white trash like Senator Chuck Schumer, Rep. Gary Ackerman of N.Y. Joe big mouth Biden, and Hillary Clinton. Until then, you can complain all you want unitl cows give birth on your front lawn, but twill do you no good what so ever …………………………….

You bet. If this “success” story was allowed to be printed, just imagine how many lettuce eating, wheat-harvesting, laundry-hanging unsuccessful stories weren’t.

Sues,

Wait: You live in the land of Rightwing evangelical homicidal religious lunatics and you can’t imagine what it’s like to be paranoid? Give me a break! It is this mindset, (minus the particular religion part) that has made Israel what it is today, a nation with a gov’t filled with maniacal murderers……….

Mason,

I agree with you 100 percent! I didn’t vote for Obomber in ’08 and I sure as heck won’t vote for him in 2012………….He needs to leave office, now……………

That’s not going to work. My friend is in his seventies, has no Internet access, and will not accept anything but a list of dates that Arabs are supposed to have tried to get aid through to Gaza via Ashdod and failed. He’s your typical hardcore listener to Beck, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, and the like. As far as he’s concerned, the only legitimate route to delivering aid is through Ashdod and anything else is an obvious attempt to smuggle weapons even though there’s no proof of such smuggling.

Why am I getting censored?

I keep harping on this, but context is everything. Israel is a fascist state. Almost all of its political spectrum falls within this category. In such systems, control of the story is of paramount importance. There are no defeats, only victories. Similarly, the regime can commit no crimes because it always conducts the investigation and never finds any. On the other hand, opponents of the regime are essentially criminal by definition. First, because who could legitimately oppose such a beneficent and right-thinking regime? Second, because as I said, they conduct the investigations.

Sorry, but that is a lie told by Israel and its apologists to justify the inhuman and inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting has two recent posts on the subject. The first has to do with counting the numbers.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/06/11/thousands-of-rockets-millions-of-bullets

If you described the threat of rockets from Gaza in terms of lives lost, it would sound much less impressive: Rockets fired from Israel have killed some 16 people in Israel, going back to 2001. It’s difficult to present that as a legitimate rationale for killing more than 3,000 Gazan civilians over the same time period.

If you describe the problem in terms of rockets launched, though, it sounds much more serious. Who wouldn’t take extreme action to stop thousands of potentially deadly attacks?

The problem is, if you’re going to describe Palestinian attacks on Israel that way, shouldn’t you describe Israeli attacks on Gaza the same way? How many bombs and bullets do you have to drop or fire before you kill 3,000 civilians? Surely some enterprising reporter with good sources in the Israeli military could make a credible ballpark estimate of the amount of ordnance used by Israel on Gaza, and then stories discussing the conflict could include a line like, “Israel, which has fired millions of rounds of ammunition into Gaza….” Or however many the total turns out to be.

The second entry has to do with the dishonest reporting that has its bias in favor of Israel.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/06/11/misleading-media-on-israel-and-gaza-rockets

In much of the coverage of Gaza, there is a media shorthand that is used to recall some of the most important recent history. Like in today’s New York Times (6/11/10):

Israel imposed the embargo, allowing in charitable goods and letting out people with medical emergencies. It invaded in late 2008 to stop a flow of rockets and destroyed thousands of buildings.

Israel invaded Gaza in order to stop rockets, destroying buildings in the process–a shorthand that makes the invasion seem more defensible. But if reporters summarized this history accurately, they would be telling a far different story. It would go something like this:

A mid-2008 cease-fire between Hamas and Israel severely curtailed rocket fire from Gaza. That was broken when Israel attacked and killed four Palestinians in early November. That breach of the cease-fire led to increased fighting and an escalation in rocket fire, culminating in a full-scale Israel invasion that killed over 1,000 Gaza civilians.

It would not be very difficult to report the story this way. (This graph would help make things relatively clear.) As FAIR noted (1/6/09), the New York Times has in the past reported these facts (12/19/08); in fact, the very same reporter, Ethan Bronner, who today wrote that Israel invaded “to stop a flow of rockets” had earlier acknowledged that Hamas had been “largely successful” in seriously curtailing rocket fire from Gaza. He noted then:

Hamas imposed its will and even imprisoned some of those who were firing rockets. Israeli and United Nations figures show that while more than 300 rockets were fired into Israel in May, 10 to 20 were fired in July, depending on who was counting and whether mortar rounds were included. In August, 10 to 30 were fired, and in September, 5 to 10.

As Noam Chomsky wrote recently (In These Times, 6/8/10), the cease-fire rockets that were launched were not the work of Hamas, and that attempts to renew the ceasefire were rebuffed. That forgotten Times account also noted that an Israeli easing of the Gaza blockade–which was promised in return for reducing rocket fire–fell short of expectations.

Time magazine, meanwhile, floats the idea (under the headline, “Can Israel Learn How to Make Its Case?”), that many Israelis see a weakness in their PR strategy:

The way Israelis see it, the failure of the commando mission was compounded by a failure to communicate the danger in which Israel finds itself. The Gaza Strip, besides being home to 1.5 million overwhelmingly poor Palestinians, serves as a launching pad for missiles usually fired by Hamas, the fundamentalist Islamic group that does not shy away from terrorist attacks. The Qassam rockets that reach nearby Israeli towns are cobbled together inside Gaza. The fear is that Hamas will one day be able to stockpile larger rockets that could reach Tel Aviv. These would likely be supplied by Iran and arrive by ship. Hence the blockade.

This is absurd. There is constant stream of reporting and commentary that stresses the threats to Israel posed by Hamas rockets–in fact, as described above, the coverage actually distorts that history to Israel’s benefit.

Apologies if quoting the above material violates fair use, but the articles are short enough that I felt it was safe enough to post them completely. As you can see, the bias in favor of Israel is so extreme that reporting has left out much of the other side, if not all of it. No accurate coverage makes it through US media filters.

Actually this is wrong. Israel is not a US military installation. We build up its armed forces. We give it all kinds of aid. But you would be hard pressed to come up with even a single instance in the last 40 years where our so-called alliance with Israel has been of strategic benefit to this country. On the other hand, the number of cases where this alliance has been a detriment to us are almost endless.

Gee – i wonder where the FDLers think Israel can get a fair shake – right here we have liberal progressives calling Israel a “facist state” – a nonsensical description. Would the UN do? Any one over the age of 35 will realize what an antisemitic joke THAT is – and it can’t be America – because we KNWO that America will rubber stamp whatever that “shitty little country” does. perhaps African or Arab states could hold an unbiased investigation – or Europe…
right…

To give an idea of how idiotic Gibbs’ statement is. Ask yourselves if he would be OK with the Iranians attacking a US ship and then conducting the investigation of the incident.

Nonsense and bullshit. Israel receives plenty of military aid – so does Egypt – but to call it a US military base – when not a single Israeli troop has fought besides us in their own neighborhood, belies any perception of reality…

Try watching a video of a day at their border gate sometime.
You and the US Congress choose to defend a ‘democracy’ that for pure pleasure uses the gates to humiliate and brutalize Palestinians – including women and children – on a daily basis.

For you, and US Jews in particular, to give Israel carte blanche is to ignore completely any rights of the Palestinians to be free of terror and inhumane treatment.

Israel and J Street have used their religion and the money we’ve all sweated to earn to effectively buy the American government’s silence.

I would hold off on responding to papau with the kind of responses being given so far. He or she might not be the extreme apologist for Israel many seem to be assuming he or she is. I think it’s better to provide examples of how reporting on such matters is so biased that it is almost impossible to get an accurate analysis of the war there and provide the more accurate facts.

Hamas must give up the concept of thinking about destroying Israel while Israel actively undertakes in the destruction of a viable Palestinian state while cynically mouthing platitudes about a two state solution.

It works out quite well for Israel.

Oh yes, and the old chestnut about giving up ones weapons when pried from ones cold dead hands does not apply to Muslims and brown people.

I should point out one other detail since Siun is advocating parsing the text. Gibbs refers to Israel’s military justice system. This implies that the investigation will be carried out by the Israeli military. This makes it even less likely to be anything other than a whitewash. In all of the military investigations into Israeli violence against the Palestinians, how many both in absolute and percentage terms have resulted in punishment of Israelis?

Maybe someone will organize a flotilla to ease the pain you’re experiencing by being inordinately shut off from the world, or maybe the moderator will feel a little compassion and send you some sympathy potato chips to enjoy with the Israeli Ambassador.

BTW, I never suicede-bombed anyone, nor fired rockets at their civilian population, nor deliberately elected a terrorist govt that vowed to destroy my neighbor. If I had, I would expect some isolation and other unpleasant consequencces. But here, I only responded to some poorly-reasoned comments.

When anyone jumps in like that to speak of the “rights” of the Israelis without the slightest mention of the rights of Palestinians to ever respond to their daily brutalizing, they deserve nothing but contempt in my book.

Boy, I know what you mean. I feel exactly the same way about people who “jump in” to support the rights of the Palestinans without the slightest mention of the real-life rights and interests of the Israelis.

Last time they tried that the EU commission wrote a very nasty letter to Colin Powell telling him to eff off.

Israel has no use for other people or their opinions. Why wouldn’t they investigate themselves. No one else in the world is chosen like them. What anyone else thinks means nothing. That goes doubly so for their hardships and suffering.

I guess you should be able to identify with the women and kids in Gaza then.

BTW, what kind of chips would you like, plain or ripple? Sorry but bar-b-que is against the rules.

Perhaps the Israel defenders here might like to read this:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/7-questions-for-defenders-of-israels-inhumane-siege-of-gaza/question-1053333/

Sums it up beautifully.

Here’s another good list.

I have to hand it to you-you don’t have a way with analogies lol.I have sympathy for the Pal kids who are dressed up in uniforms and weaponry and trained to be fighters at age 6. I also sympathize with the women who are governed by sharia law. And I feel sympathy, as well as contempt, for people who have a govt with a charter that relies heavily on “The Protocols of the Elders Of Zion” to justify their anti Jewish hatred. And you know what you can do with your chips, I’m sure.

Dude,
Who needs the

“The Protocols of the Elders Of Zion” to justify their anti Jewish hatred.

when you’ve got the IDF doing it for you?

Well, at the least, I think it provides some really good insight into the mindset of the people you are so vigorously and unquestioningly supporting.

I’m a pro-Israeli Jew, but: Fox meet henhouse.

You speak pure garbage and you know it.

How many Israelis are going hungry or living in piles of rubble or are treated like animals as they fend their way through checkpoints to clean the toilets of Israelis fattened on US tax dollars?

The Israelis made a paradise out of desert that the Arabs were doing nothing with. The world was astounded at what they did. They’ve been at risk for violent attacks throughout their history. They have a right to defend the way of life they have created for themselves thru hard work.

The Palestinians also have a human right to exist and enjoy the fruits of their work, if they create any. But threatening to kill your neighbor has never been the best way to get your neighbor to give a damn about your comfort level. We all have to be responsible for our own bad choices, and I see everyone here giving a free pass to their preferred side, and disregarding completely the right of Israelis to live without fear of an attack. It’s like y’all think the Israelis have no right to complain unless they are all actually dead first, but y’all would not accept living under constant threat yourselves without taking every precaution you could to create a margin of safety so your children could play outside without fear. You would not give a damn about a neighbor who put fear in your children. I find the dishonesty here to be overwhelming, and pretty pathetic. And I don’t have any particular affection for Israel, will never go there, and don’t even like the few Israelis I’ve met. But there are factors on both sides that deserve thoughtful consideration, and I see none of that here.

The Israelis made their “paradise” by stealing Palestinian lands and forcing Palestinians into a brutal apartheid state. The Israeli government at this point is no better or different than Hitler’s Nazis. The same hatred and religious extremism is present, the same brutalization and mass murder and pogroms the Nazis visited against the Jews of Europe, the Israelis are now implementing against the Palestinians. You obviously have no problem with this, but it’s an insult for you to defend these pigs and an insult to those who suffered and died in the Holocaust. Those people died for nothing.

The Moderator thinks ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~.

Where are the gas chambers? Where are the lampshades and ashtrays made out of human body parts? Was the land “stolen” when the UN gave it in 1947, after the Arabs sided with the Nazis in WWII because they thought exterminating the Jews was a wonderful idea? Have you ever read anything?

Your prejudice is blatant. Fortunately, ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~.

~~~ModNote: Insults directed at commenters and authors are prohibited, as are attempts to inflame and antagonize. Your comments are subject to moderation.~~~

nice

TO THE MODERATOR: You find this comment by me “an attempt to inflame and antagonize,” but are quite comfortable with the one I responded to, at #71? With all due respect, are you out of your fucking mind?

razorbrain June 14th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
70
In response to hazmaq @ 69 (show text)

The Israelis made a paradise out of desert that the Arabs were doing nothing with.

Let’s debunk this blatant falsehood shall we?

Tell Me Again, Who Made The Desert Bloom?

In December 1945 and January 1946, the British Mandate authorities carried out an extensive survey of Palestine, in support of the work of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine. The results were published in the Survey of Palestine, which has been scanned and made available online by Palestine Remembered; all 1300 pages can be read here. 

One of the subjects investigated in the Survey of Palestine is land use; specifically, which crops were Palestine’s leading agricultural products at the end of the British Mandate, and whose farms were producing them.

So, according to the Survey of Palestine, who really made the barley fields of Beersheba bloom?

Read in full: Lawrence of Cyberia: Tell Me Again, Who Made The Desert Bloom?
Strongly suggest that people read the posting in full.

I.e. No one’s been found to display human skin lampshades and gas chambers aren’t used, therefore the Israelis are not like the Nazi’s. More great logic from Razorbrain. /S

Responding to “no different or better than Hitler’s Nazis,” those facts are directly relevant. Also relevant is that the Jews in Germany did not have a long history of actively seeking the extermination of the German people, which some might view as a provocative factor, no? But then, you’ve already demonstrated that you are weak when it comes to discerning the difference between good, tight analogies and sloppy ones. Whatever you’re comfortable with, hotdog. We each must set our own standards of what passes for acceptable logic. I prefer my standards to yours.

I guess they also didn’t each you much about relevance. Where is the data showing the results after Israel was created, and introduced modern irrigation techniques? That’s the dta that matters. Not to mention the great cities and infracstructure advances carried out by the Israely, which exceed anything comparable in that neighborhood of the world. If your position was any good, you’d be able to deal with all the facts. I’m wondering what your position on the iIRA was, when te IRA was an active player in Ireland? Let me guess . . .

Watching you and macaquertroll digging yourselves ever deeper is quite fun in a gruesome kind of way. The standard Israeli claim is that they made the desert bloom. Which is a lie. It was blooming already.

As to the rest of your sub-sophomoric crap speculate all you like.

Which law school was it that taught you so badly anyway? I suggest you find a competent lawyer to act on your behalf. You’re plainly entitled to a refund.

From you, that’s a compliment. Arrogance is no substitute for competence. Facts are your enemy. Was the IRA right or wrong, in your “considered” opinion lol?

Is that the best you can do? Really, is that feeble little attempt the best you can do?

Loser.

Riiiight…The Israelis aren’t like Nazis because they don’t gas Palestinians or make lampshades out of their skins. Does harvesting organs from Palestinian prisoners count, or will you find some excuse to rationalize that atrocity?

Last week Sweden’s largest daily newspaper published an article containing shocking material: testimony and circumstantial evidence indicating that Israelis may have been harvesting internal organs from Palestinian prisoners without consent for many years.

Worse yet, some of the information reported in the article suggests that in some instances Palestinians may have been captured with this macabre purpose in mind.

In the article, “Our sons plundered for their organs,” veteran journalist Donald Bostrom writes that Palestinians “harbor strong suspicions against Israel for seizing young men and having them serve as the country’s organ reserve – a very serious accusation, with enough question marks to motivate the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to start an investigation about possible war crimes.”1 (The author of the Counterpunch article relied mostly on Israeli information sources, according to answers given by her at an event in Alaska.)

The one who exclusively resorts to name-calling and derogation and ad hominem because he is afraid/unable to engage the facts and arguments presented is the loser. And anyone with a brain knows that. You are destroying your own credibility with these tactics. The degree of your pathetic response is clearly illustrated, as well, by your craven refusal to share your opinion about the IRA’s use of terrorist tactics. It seems I’ve stumbled onto your vulnerability.

Since the Moderator seems to be devoted to the mission of protecting your [edited by mod], I won’t bother to respond to you. But I would wait for the results of an investigation before I relied on raw allegations. On the other hand, you could visit the Holocaust Museum to see how woefully uninformed you are.

[modnote: please stop with the name calling.]

What’s the matter? Is the truth that difficult for you to handle that you can only lash out at those who speak it? I suppose you are one of those who gleefully calls Ms. Hedy Epstein, who knows far more about the Holocaust than you do or ever will, anti-Semitic even though she is Jewish. I suppose you are one of those who label her a terrorist for daring to come to the aid of Palestinian civilians.

I’d like to ask you something. What is it really that separates you from Hitler’s Nazis in terms of your hatred of Palestinians and in your religious zealotry? I read your remarks and I see videos of your sick behaviors (speaking generally of Israel apologists) and I see no difference in tone or content between your rhetoric and that spewed at the Nuremberg rallies. As someone with Polish ancestry and whose Cherokee and Comanche ancestors suffered similar ethnic cleansing by European invaders to their homeland, I’d like to know what you think you’re accomplishing by emulating the very monsters that tried to wipe out all Jews.

Moderator: You somehow managed to miss the “name-calling” directed at me in #81. It would be much easier for me to comply with your rules if you would but apply them consistently. I’m also at a loss to understand why you had no problem with #71. Am I the only one who is required to remain civil on these Israel-bashing threads? Please advise.

I have no religion, I reject all organized religion as unsupported superstition. Maybe you should start your re-thinking process from there. I’ve also refrained from taking sides in the overall conflict under discussion, as you would see if you read my comments carefully. On the other hand, your easy allusions to people being “No different” from Hitler and the Nazis reveals that your thought process is not equally calibrated.

I made no assumptions about your religion, so I don’t know why you felt the need to share that information. It’s irrelevant. What is relevant is the level of hatred you’ve put on display in this thread ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out in the first place.

I call behavior as I see it, and right now I see no real difference between the hatred and religious zealotry displayed by the Nazis and the hatred and religious zealotry now on display by the Israelis against the Palestinians. They’ve instituted a brutal apartheid state against the native inhabitants of their country, whom they displaced when that country was formed sixty-two years ago and whose remaining lands they illegally occupy. That you defend all this speaks volumes about where you stand.

~~~Let’s keep the personal insults outside, please.~~~

You accused me of “religious zealotry” in #85. Don’t you even remember what you accuse people of? Sheesh.

AND, you should send the Moderator a generous check.

Double post. Sorry.

Hey, you’re the one acting like a religious zealot, razorbrain. It doesn’t matter what religion you follow, doesn’t matter if you don’t follow one. Your almost mindless defense of Israel’s brutality (in that it is unquestioning) has the same overzealousness of any religious fanatic. And maybe you weren’t paying attention, but the moderator edited my last post as well. Perhaps you should ask yourself why your posts, with their insults and name-calling, seem to be the biggest target for moderation.

The correct response would have been an apology.

If you’ll notice, I’ve been one of only two or three challenging the view of hundreds, and receiving ad hominem, as opposed to analytical, attacks from all of them. So, I get a little irritated eventually. Since I know what words of mine get moderated, or completely disappeared, by the Mods, as opposed to seeing what attacks and inflammatory comments from others that they permit to stand, I can say with complete assurance that they have me on the very shortest leash of all.

I would also note that the prevailing view here feels like zealotry to me, the willingness to embrace unproven facts is very pronounced. And all I’ve done is challenge the wisdom of e

The correct response would have been an apology. AND, can you honestly say the views expressed by your side of this debate have not been “unquestioning” in their support of the Palestinians? I have not taken the Israeli side, but have just pointed out the rhetorical excesses and factual errors of the Palestinian side of this debate. Personally, I want more information before I take a side.

Sorry, double post. Unruly keyboard. Happens all the time.

The correct response would have been an apology.

Yes, it would have been. So why didn’t you apologize?

Except the “facts” you seem to think are being glossed over in anti-Semitic bias don’t exist — except perhaps in your own mind, set as it is on believing that Israel can do no wrong and that the video evidence showing unarmed civilians being murdered in cold blood should simply be ignored because, after all, there isn’t enough credibility given to Israel’s side of things for your liking.

If you want the “other” side, that is, the side that makes Israel look better than it truly is, then I suggest you look up Fox Noise Channel’s web site, MSNBC, CNN, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time magazine, and virtually every other American “news” outlet. But if you want the truth, I suggest you learn not to have such a thin skin when confronted with it.

No class. No surprise.