[Welcome Dr. Larry Rosen, and Hosts Jayan Kalathil and Melissa Bolton-Klinger]
[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]
Rewired: Understanding the iGeneration and the Way They Learn
In his new book, Rewired, Professor Larry Rosen tackles an intriguing subject: the “iGeneration.” The younger brothers and sisters of today’s twentysomethings, the iGeneration is the first generation of what Dr. Rosen calls “digital natives.” In other words, this generation, who are now entering their teen and tween years, has only ever known a world where technology is so commonplace that it is a given part of everyday life. They are growing up in a time when the internet, smartphones, and social networks are as normal to them as the sun and the moon. They are connected, they are social, they are nonstop multitaskers, and they are gearing up to take on the world. The only problem is, the world is not quite ready for them yet.
In Rewired, Dr. Rosen carefully outlines the current gap between how today’s kids are taking to learning and technology, and an educational system that is lagging far behind them. They have been born in an age where they are always connected, for better or for worse, and do not have the patience for an educational system that has not adapted to their times. They want access to whatever they want, whenever they want it and wherever they are, and Dr. Rosen argues that in order to best serve this new generation, the entire educational system needs to adapt to their new plugged-in way of learning and embrace a more immersive educational curricula that incorporates teaching tools with today’s modern technologies. It will require a shift in how the education model is viewed, where the teacher’s role is no longer that of simply instructor and content provider, but is one more like that of a content facilitator and analyzer, where school is built around multitasking rather than unitasking, and where students learn as much from each other while they are outside of the classroom as they do from their teacher while they are inside of the classroom.
At face value, this idea seems like it would be a hard sell. But Dr. Rosen carefully outlines his arguments in this book, and dissects the various methods through which educators can take advantage of the very technologies that kids are so quick to embrace in order to engage them in new and exciting ways. Topics in his book range from how video games and virtual worlds like Second Life can be used as a supplement for in-class discussion, to how social networks like Facebook can be used to facilitate class interaction for socially shy kids, to how texting and writing blogs can actually encourage better writing skills in students. He also addresses some sensitive and hot-button issues, like how to protect kids while using social networks for school, and how the use of texting in class can facilitate discussion, to how the socio-economic disparities that exist between school districts nationwide can be overcome so that all kids are keeping up with modern technologically-based teaching tools.
In Rewired, Dr. Rosen argues that while some of these changes may be difficult to implement, they are necessary if America’s educational system is to best serve her students. Today’s iGeneration kids have embraced technology like no other generation before them, and this book shows how, and why, today’s educators need to do the same.
Larry D. Rosen is a Professor of Psychology at California State University, Dominguez Hills with 25 years of research experience on the impact of technology on children, adolescents, young adults, parents, school teachers, and business people in more than 30 countries. He is the author of Me, MySpace, and I: Parenting the Net Generation and Technostress: Coping with Technology @Work @Home @Play.



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Larry, Welcome to the Lake.
Jayan, Melissa, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Hi Bev, Thanks for having us on today. Welcome Larry.
THanks for having me!
To start off, can you talk a little about the iGeneration that you discuss so much in your book? You call them “digital natives,” can you describe how they are different than previous generations?
I am looking forward to some interesting discussion about my thoughts, writing and research
I talk about a new “mini” generation called the iGeneration with a little “i” to refer to those teens born in the 1990s. my work shows that they are VERY different from even their tech-savvy older brothers and sisters in all ways that have to do with media and technology
They spend more time using media and more time multitasking (or task switching) with those same media and believe that the WWW stands for Whatever, Whenever, Wherever
In Rewired, you stress how important multi-tasking is to kids these days – that it’s an effect of growing up surrounded with this technology. What do you see as the pros and cons to this, and do you feel these kids will ultimately end up as adults with shorter and shorter attention spans?
I do think that multitasking has gotten a bad rap from people. These kids are really not doing more than one thing AT THE SAME TIME. They are really quite savvy at knowing when they can switch to another task, when something takes time to process so they can move on and they also use multiple tasks that are “different” and use different modalities such as studying a book and listening to music. these are much easier to task switch.
Good afternoon Larry, Jayan, and Melissa and welcome to FDL
Larry, I have not had an opportunity to read your book so forgive me if you address this in the book, but.
Where/How do you draw the line on using the technology to help students learn versus using the technology to actually avoid learning.
By this I mean, how do you teach the students the basics so they can grow without their using the technology as a crutch. Or in other words, how do you teach them to print and write cursive when all they want to do is type (probably a bad analogy but I hope you get the direction I’m looking at here)
Great question…
as far as the downsides, well, I do believe that they often don’t understand how to process information at a “deeper” level because they click off of a website so fast (2-3 seconds) and need to be taught that this is not deep processing and leads to less of an understanding of the material
Such an interesting question! One of the areas that I think we need to be cognizant of is that education should not be moving totally in one direction or the other. Children still have to be taught the basics, but those basics have changed. How many people can say that they have handwritten anything in the past 5-10 years? do student need to be taught cursive or can we guess that there will be no writing? THEY DO, however, need to be taught language skills (typed or not) and basic mathematics. The teaching tools are what need to change.
You bring up the topic that mini generations are now being defined in shorter time spans, like 10 years, as compared to say Baby Boomers and Generation X. Why do you think this is happening? Is this based on shifts in technology, culture, or is it one and the same?
Ha, you should see my handwriting :)
I do want to apologize if my responses are a tad slow. For some reason the website is loading slowly for me…. must be my server (who shall remain namelss)
I think that we are seeing tremendously fast changes in technology which are “game changers” in the sense that they make us reconceptualize how we do certain things. For example, texting is a game changer. And it is clear that the teens love it. They send and receive an average of more than 3,000 texts a month. This totally changes communication and adds a new wrinkle to the definition of connection.
I do hear the need for other methods for teaching (I have numerous teachers on both sides of my family for the record).
But I guess, since I’m from out of the earlier generations, I would find it a bit of a concern if the decision is made that teaching printing and writing are no longer that important (and maybe I’m just raising a strawman here) since everyone types as it reflects far more of a reliance on technology always being available that is not really supported by history.
a bit more here …. other game changers include social networking such as Facebook which has more than 120 million active users. that has certainly started to define a generation and the way they socialize. I think we have to understand that technology can and does redefine the way we live, and function on a daily basis.
Well how about the wrinkle of Twitter…What is your take on Twitter? Good? Bad? Any ideas on ways to help shape the way we use it?
i think that we have to recognize (we don’t have to like it) that skills are different now. Is it worth spending most of second grade teaching cursive or would that time be better spent learning keyboarding which is surely a more marketable (and necessary) skill?
Larry,
I teach a college class in music appreciation. Eleven years go, when I started teaching this course, iPods, youtube and wikipedia didn’t exist. The lecture hall had no wifi. And so on.
I use the newest credible text available. The text has a web presence, as do many others.
But I also supplement this in class with ways to get the kids to use their web tools. I usually show three to eight youtubes of performances or about aspects of music history, up on a big 18×22 foot screen, with a big sound system. Now that the kids are used to this level of multimedia, there’s no turning back. The course – limited at 115 – fills up within hours of being opened for registration.
Although I’m not as tech-savvy as most of the kids taking the course, my TA helps me communicate, and I find the more up-to-date LOLspeak I use, the more the kids seem to feel they should pay attention to the course lectures.
Can’t wait to read your book.
Twitter is too young to know what to make of it. I do notice that more kids are using Twitter on the fly to make Facebook posts and perhaps that will extend the wherever part of the new WWW.
You’re going to love his book!
In your book, you advocate for the use of what many educators would see as non-conventional teaching tools. What do you see as the biggest obstacle when it comes to incorporating today’s technology in the classroom?
And i applaud you for not only using the technology but being willing to be aided and taught by your TA. I am 60 and my kids (4 of them) and my students teach me so much. it is about being open to that. In the book I talk about teachers having a “knowledge broker” which could be a computer teacher or even a student, who can help the teacher discover content and technologies to enhance learning.
The results of the effect of the ubiquitous presence of computer chip based technology is certainly evident. My at-the-time 10yo son showed his mom how to operate her digital camera without looking at the directions. He had never seen the camera before she took it out of the box.
I do see some problems with the use of the technology, but perhaps you address them. To me the greatest problem is the dependence on the technology to find answers to problems. Usually the kids will start banging away on the calculator or computer before they have even analyzed the problem. The technology is no better than the input, and that truth has not changed over time. Can the technology help them to slow down to think through problems before using the technology?
sorry again for the slow response…. I think that the biggest obstacle is the overwhelming nature of choices for teachers and school districts. They think “technology” and associate it with expensive and difficult to learn and get overwhelmed. Again, one of the things I talk about in the book is how much material is out there for free and is web-based which most everyone now knows how to use.
I do think that we have to teach kids how not to depend on the technology always being there so they do need to learn many nontech based skills. That’s why they need to know how to multiple, divide, etc., rather than use a calculator. These arguments, by the way, were made when the calculator came into our world and people bemoaned the impending loss of math skills which we have not seen.
On a similar note….Reading. It’s hard to imagine that kids are still reading longer works as our conversational manner and ways of delivering info becomes more and more succinct. Could you talk about that? How do we keep kids reading rather than skimming on-line versions of Cliff Notes?
… i do think that as teachers we have to spend time teaching them how to think. Right now we are teaching to the tests. we spend our time disseminating content that students can find elsewhere which frees up time for teachers to be … teachers who help kids learn how to analyze, synthesize and deep think.
Interesting…I like the idea of teaching how to think. And in some ways we’re teaching them how to “gather” information as well.
Speaking about teachers, one of the topics that you bring up is the changing role of the teacher. You argue that in the future, teachers will go from being a content provider to content identifier and analyzer. Can you talk about that a little more?
Interestingly kids are reading more than ever and are more willing than ever to read. we just have to understand that reading to them is different and we have to teach them to think more deeply. Once you take the content and move it away from the classroom you have special opportunities to teach them how to think. I use an example in the book where the teacher wants to teach about the Sistine Chapel and she sends the kids to Second Life where Vassar College has a Sistine Chapel model that they can view, fly around, learn about and then come back to class to have the meaning discussed. Instead of wasting time with slide shows the teacher can then take those slides and compare experiences of the students.
Sadly teachers are not being allowed to be teachers any more. What happened to the great teacher who had time to really go into depth on a topic? We are so test bound that this has gone away
My kids are 24 and 20, so I’ve got that link too. I don’t quite require a “knowledge broker.” Yet. But I am under a lot of pressure to start tweeting. I’m 63.
One thing I bring into the class that hardly anyone else in my field discusses (or might even be aware of) is the empowerment young female artists involved in the global hip-hop culture are gaining through some of the interactive tools you stress as being important. I like ending the course’s semester by showing youtubes of music that was created or modified within the past 24 hours, and show how it is connected to the stream of what we’ve discussed through the term.
I went to the Sistine Chapel thanks to Vassar on Second Life per your book’s suggestion. It was pretty cool.
That’s cool! I want to take your class…
I don’t think anyone should feel pressured to use any technology. there are so many ways to connect and learn that the best way is to do it only when you find you need to or want to or both. BTW, I use YouTube videos a lot in my classes including showing a progression of three videos to help kids understand the generational similarities and differences on day 1. I play the Who’s My Generation, Black Eyed Peas, and MC Lars doing their own generational tributes. quite compelling!
But the one thing is Second Life is really big. And can feel confusing. Any tips to wrangle it’s potential without feeling lost? When talking about using social networks, texting, or virtual worlds and video games in education, many people will argue that these are for entertainment, and not learning. Can you give your thoughts on how you feel an educator can overcome the stigma that might be related to these when trying to implement them in the classroom?
come join me in california! i would love to put it all on the web and will do so one day. the problem is that things i talk about on Day 1 in the class have changed by the end of the semester. makes it a continual challenge!
Thanks for this whole thread. I want to respond to everything. In terms of the reading longer works, my son has now read all of the Harry Potter books and you know how long those are. The approach that we hit on for him was to have him read at the same time as listening to the spoken book. That has held his attention and he seems to get the maximum out of it. We are hoping that it will translate to reading interesting stuff without the spoken word. We haven’t tried the ebooks yet because the market has not yet shaken out, but that may help to bridge the gap. It may be that using the technology is sort of a comforting feel as a real book is for me.
I give tons of references in the book to groups that help teachers navigate places such as Second Life. Interestingly it is overwhelming to everyone but kids. I had a 10 year old show me how to navigate it! He even helped me “pimp” my avatar!
I need him to come help me with mine too. I wasn’t loving the haircut my avatar had that day. Ha.
Reading as an act is changing. Reading used to mean just the printed word but we have many more senses in which to organize and stimulate thoughts. Why just read written words when the other senses can make it more engaging? THink of reading as watching a play based on a book and reading along with the cast performance.
We touched on this briefly earlier when discussing Youtube in the classroom. User generated content is a huge part of web 2.0. Can you talk a bit of how this can be incorporated into education?
Kids love to use their fun tools to create. They do it all the time in nearly any sensory modality you can imagine. Why not encourage them to create papers which are not standard written papers, but rather allow them to explore a topic through a modality such as a video. They still need to know how to write up a project but an accompanying video or audio or photo album or MySpace page can make a project more engaging and more interesting.
Thanks for being here today, Larry. Thanks to Jayan for hosting.
I’ve got a “first gen” digital native stepson and two “second gen” digital natives of my own. I think there’s actually a need for a different label, at least among members in our household, because these younger two are already at a different place in terms of their consumption and expectations of technology. We’re pretty saturated, have a computer for every room of the house and then some, and have already moved half our entertainment from regular cable to other outlets (on-demand systems like Hulu, Netflix, so on), and the kids have both had cell phones for a while now.
What concerns me is the generational shift which must happen in schools. I’ve already had some challenging conversations with administrators and teachers who cannot see the day is upon them when location-based education is obsolete, and schools must begin to differentiate if they are to remain “in business.”
For instance: MIT’s OpenCourseWare allows virtually anyone, anywhere, even a secondary school, to offer MIT’s curriculum. What value is there in attending any other school, then, if MIT can come to our doorstep?
How do you see this next phase being navigated by educators?
Can i quote you on this? You have given me the perfect example of two “mini” generations. And the next phase is a tough one. I think that we have to convince the younger teachers to get creative and not to teach to a test but that may require us working on a statewide or even federal level. Then we need there to be a climate surrounding a school system that says “we are going to use any technology available to engage and excite our students.” It is not going to be easy which i why i wrote this book. It is not a call to action but a quiet understanding of the generation of learners and the opportunities for more immersive, engaging teaching and learning.
I was going to ask a similar question as well. And to add on to it, do you see this as a positive or negative, and do you feel that students still physically need to be in a classroom with others? Will this eventually bleed into the workplace as well, with more and more virtual teams working remotely?
…. also, isn’t it amazing how many resources there are like the one you mentioned that allow teachers to provide content for free without having to deliver the content? now the teacher has time to be a teacher and help the students understand the MIT lecture (or one from any of hundreds and thousands of free online courses). that is just scratching the surface!
We are seeing more projects focusing on hybrid models of education where some happens in the classroom and some outside of the classroom. I was reading about a program in Chicago i believe that has the students in school 2-3 days a week and working remotely the other days. I have tried this hybrid model and a completely online model and the hybrid is much more effective eduationally.
Then I have to ask this question….
Are you familiar with Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone? He feels like the American community is actually collapsing and disappearing in the new digital world order. This has sprouted organizations like Meetup, that encourage getting out from behind the screen every now and then. What are your thoughts on this idea? How do we keep and encourage face to face socialization in the new world of avatars and 140 characters?
now talking about the workplace, this generation of upcoming workers is the most social ever so virtual teams would fill the bill for many of their needs and desires. They are unique in that they like to work with people but would prefer to do it on their own time frame. If that means virtuality they are ready and willing. Would I rather do this interview home in my PJs or in a studio?
Sure, go ahead and quote me, no problem at all. There’s very much a difference between my 20-something stepson and my teen/tween in terms of usage; the younger ones see it as completely seamless, like oxygen, while the older one’s experience is still punctuated. I expect the next gen to come will be that which has access to pervasive wireless — and I’m afraid this means the next gen is really overseas, not here in the U.S.
Yes, MIT OpenCourseWare is marvelous. I’m afraid, thought, the downside in our country is NCLB, which will prevent school systems from pursuing more challenging open source curriculums.
I do think that this is a critical question. We cannot let our lives be totally virtual. We are not going to learn how to interact with people out from behind the screen which i think is dangerous. Behind the screen we are oblivious to cues that we would see in a f2f situation. Technology is a great connector BUT you have to have a balance. I got into a heated discussion about this with some parents who wanted their kids to get rid of all technology and go totally RL (real life) and I told them that the kids needed a balance and not necessarily a 1:1 balance. It is not bad to use more technology and have less RL time BUT there has to be enough RL time to learn people.
We are moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. Sometimes politics get in the way of action. But, in California and Texas they are working to make many, if not all, of the textbooks open source and online which frees up gobs of money for other teaching tools.
Oh politics! Why do you thwart us so?
Speaking to that parent’s point, with today’s technology, society is always plugged-in, for better or for worse. What else do you say to people who might argue that all this connectivity may not be a good thing for kids and want to take it back to basics? How did you argue where and when educators should try to strike a balance with kids and technology, or do you not see this as a problem?
I am hoping their next step will be moving to devices issued to students so that every child has access to technology from home. Besides, a 500-buck iPad is cheaper than a full day’s text books.
In Paris about four years ago, the school system gave ALL of their students thumb drives preloaded with opensource software and some of their curriculum. Marveilleux!
Now I really want to move to France. Better health care and school systems :)
We gave them tools to stay plugged in all the time. Why are we surprised that they want to use them? It is too late to take it back to basics. I talk to parent groups all the time and there is always someone who has done away with all technology in the household and invariably their kid feels left out of school/friend life and finds ways to use technology at the library, a friend’s house, school, etc. We can’t bemoan the loss of something when we gave them the tools to use … we can, and should, as parents set very clear limits and boundaries about the use of those tools. My last book, Me, MySpace, and I: Parenting the Net Generation, gives many strategies for attaining a balance between RL and SL (screen life).
and there are projects in Maine and Ohio where each kid get an iTouch to use to access zillions of free educational apps PLUS online texts and the entire online world! We are getting there slowly. you don’t have to move to France… but you can if you want! Drink a glass of vin blanc pour moi.
I would like to throw out a question to you: What do you think the next generation of kids, now preteens and children, will be like when they hit high school and college?
Wow. Great question…
Which gets us to dakine01′s question about ensuring separation between learning and not-learning. If my youngest one got an iTouch, phew…it would be tough. He’d have it cracked and hacked in no time for other than school.
Although threats to cut off the network do work.
Firedoglake fans, what do you think?
Just using a touch of Socratic methods to help me hear what others think!
again, parents (and teachers) need to set limits. Here’s an iTouch. You can use it as long as you do X, Y and Z and DON’T DO A, B, and C. It is all about limits. Kids love limits (at least internally) and they will test them and then when you don’t back down, will adhere to them.
Merveilleux that the Internet makes multilingual education and resources available at a click. Kids still need to learn the skills to take advantage of this font of global information, including how to compare and critique the credibility of various sources. I second the observation that real-life experience not get lost in the shuffle. Parisians wearing Calvin Kleins are still Parisians, not American models wearing spray-on jeans.
and our job is to teach them how to take advantage CORRECTLY. That is really a whole area of interest of mine called Media Literacy. It is all about learning to evaluate the resources and not take them at face value. Too many of my college students still use Wikipedia as their only source for research papers. I now have to start the semester with a lesson in Google Scholar and other sources that are more reliable and less accessible to whim and edit.
Larry, I’m going to dive into your question about what kids may be like…
Honestly, I think they’ll be like technology itself, a bit more evolved in the way they process info than their predecessors. Look at Mac, they release a computer, and 6 mths later they release another that has more memory and faster harddrives. Their brains will be able to keep up as more and more ways of gathering and outputting info are created.
But then I have the next question:
The steady stream of information and various ways to receive it can be overwhelming. Do you have any recommendations for ways to manage the constant influx of information we face in the new mobile and digital age being that we’ve been born with “older” processors?
Interesting that you bring up their “brains” Melissa. There is some speculation (not researched thoroughly yet) that these kids’ brains are developing differently than ours did. For example, the prefrontal cortex (up there under our forehead) is the seat of decision making and multitasking. THere is some thought that although it is not completely evolved until the late 20s, teens may be showing faster completion of the neurons in this area. The thinking is that the area is getting more practice multitasking and processing information and, thus, getting better and faster and more “educated.”
What will they be like when they get to college…
In my 16-year-old’s case, probably no different than she is today. (She played her first educational computer games when she was 18 months old and could just manage to stand in the desk chair and hold a mouse.) She’s had her own laptop for more than two years and uses it for everything from chatting with her friends, to research, to creating presentations and reports, to exploring careers online. Generally she’s more productive than the rest of her classmates who are a little farther behind her in technology use, with the exception of one classmate whose father taught her how to build her own computer. I can see college being very similar to her day-to-day experience now, with the exception of better technology and different location since she probably go away for pre-med.
My 12-year-old, though, is a different situation. I think there will be a shift between the two of them, but I can’t quite assess what it will be. I have a suspicion that my son’s inability to pick one subject is a facet of this emergent state. What if the internet allows kids to realize they can do more than one thing well? how do they navigate wanting to be a biologist and a ceramist? Even his expectations of where he’ll go to school are different; while my daughter wants to go here in the States, my son is thinking of Oxford, and frankly, Oxford might be able to come to him in 6 years time when he’s ready.
I’m actually more worried about what these two will do to make a living; how do you keep good people motivated and interested here when their lives are so mobile?
If you are asking how we, as non iGeners, should filter and sift information, that is precisely what we have to learn. Right now information on the web doubles about every three months or so and our “older” processors cannot take it all in. We have to subscribe to the idea that you do not have to know it all. We should learn to strike a balance between the teens who spend 2-3 seconds on a webpage before clicking on a link and us old fogies who go three, four and five pages into a Google search and take hours to get to a conclusion. there are times for depth and times for breadth and usually it needs to be a balance.
I for one can see him being both a biologist and a ceramacist. that is something that the world today allows and promotes. My daughter, who is a junior at Yale, has changed her major for the third time. She thought she knew what she wanted to be in high school but as she learned more (online interestingly) about other areas she decided to try out some courses in another area. The web (and all else cyber) allows them a unique opportunity to try on different clothes.
Shifting gears a little, in your book you talk about how reports of predators lurking on social networking sites like MySpace are perhaps overblown. But still, anyone who has seen a Dateline NBC episode of “To Catch A Predator” knows that they are out there. When using technology for learning, what safeguards can be put into place to protect kids?
I agree with that…I’m a GenX’er and I feel like my generation already has been taught to be a wearer of many hats. For the iGeners, I feel like they’re going to be one-person bands, capable of more than we can even imagine.
I wonder if all this influences the plasticity of the brain itself? Like, how easily the brain finds other pathways to do tasks it once did in the places that are now damaged by traumatic brain injury, stroke, etc. How interesting it would be to see studies on this. Do you have any theories on this?
Parents need d to practice what I call the T.A.L.K. model of parenting. The “T” is for Trust, “A” for Assess, “L” for learn, and “K” for “K”communicate (OK, i know but TALC is a bad acronym). The important issue to me is that parents need to learn about what is out there, assess the potential for problems and talk with their children proactively. Most parents who do this find out that their kids are aware of the issues of predators, cyberbullies, etc from the media and friends and know what to do if they are approached. Having said that, the research shows that the “predator” scare is just that, a scare. There are very few out there and the kids overwhelmingly know what to do. There are always going to be a few kids who have these problems but the research shows that it happens mostly to kids who are already showing signs of being troubled.
I’m trying to brace my pocketbook for that; my daughter has wanted to be a pathologist for years now, but she has a knack for engineering that might yet need to be fulfilled. She spent a lot of time this last summer on line doing virtual hip and knee replacements; I could almost see her going to a school which has a bio-engineering program specializing in developing medical devices.
If only she could see what I see as a parent. The kid who driven by anger took apart a PS2 game system and repaired it on her own using YouTube videos and instructions she found on the internet should be more than a pathologist. Just hoping she figures it out before that junior year at college.
Well, i am not a neurologist or neuropsychologist so my opinion is just that, opinion. But, having said that, it is clear that one thing that appears to happen in the brains of these kids (as seen in fMRI studies) is that they are able to activate multiple brain areas differently than older people. This is all speculative of course but wouldn’t it be interesting if we had this generation of kids who are better information processors to start off life?
Larry, I think the new college and pre-college students will have many careers, and many jobs in their lives. That is the trend. My generation worked one “job/career” and had a pension. Those days are gone. Most 30somethings change jobs without a thought, no loyalty to a company.
You thoughts…..
Sign me up for a brain swap!
I am in awe of what these kids can do. My friend’s son was taking apart toys and building new ones before he hit 5. He knows how to do so many things with technology (he has an iPad!) and he is only 7. So many useful (and cool) tools (but they don’t see them as tools – only as extensions of themselves) and such fertile young minds.
I think that the concept of job, as I talked a lot about in the Me, MySpace and I book, is different to this generation. They are gaining “skills” and are well aware that jobs are emerging and they have no clue what will be there when they are ready to settle into a career. Who can figure out what life will be like in even 5 years and how can you consider a career now when the whole world is changing so rapidly. Many years ago the US Dept of Labor talked about how the next generation would have 7-9 jobs in their lifetime and at least half of those are in areas that are not invented yet! and they were talking about the 1990s college students. I am a Baby Boomer and like most of us, have had only one job. If i were a kid in college today i would leave options open and gain the vast array of skills until i decided what new emerging field captured me.
I hope that she figures out what career really “engages” and excites her. I know too many people in my generation and my parents’ generation who despised their jobs but felt they had no options. The options these days are endless and increasing daily
Very interesting, yes! I can see I’m going to have to get this book.
Yes, we didn’t have a model to follow, but T.A.L.K. is what we did. Spent a year discussing how social media and Facebook worked before letting the teen get her own account, supervised when she first got it, helped her figure out how to do some challenging things like set up security and unfriend a so-called RL friend who turned out to be an online bully. And now I ask a few questions from time to time to check the weather, so to speak.
Son hasn’t been interested in that, actually prefers chatting with classmates in school-provided and teacher-supervised Moodle site. He’s also had World of Warcraft accounts and has learned how to navigate both rough language and weirdos with me keeping an eye on him at a distance.
Both of them know I’m a major privacy freak and for good reasons. So far we haven’t had any major problems. Wish I could say the same about other parents we know, but there’s a correlation between being technologically-savvy or not, and having cyber-security issues. The naive parents are techno-adverse.
Today’s kids are living their lives online, many of whom share anything and everything with their friends on social networks and for the whole world to see. And sites like FB seem to encourage this. What are your thoughts about online privacy and why do you feel today’s kids and young adults feel the need to “put it all out there” so to speak? How can an educator help students make more ethical choices when it comes to sharing information so it doesn’t go the way of narcissism or harmful to others?
You are a wonderful parent! Sadly, the research shows that only 1 in 3 parents do what you do which is to watch, set limits, check on the kids. Another third to a half just let their kids do what they want as long as they are in their rooms and quiet. That, to me, is not parenting at all. That is using technology as a baby sitter. And the net and video games are way more engaging then the TV baby sitter.
They “put it all out there” because they can and also because many lack limits and boundaries. So few kids know that colleges and companies check applicants online before they accept/hire them. Educators HAVE to teach media literacy which includes issues of privacy, netiquette, and ethics to make sure they understand that just because they feel safe “behind the screen” that they should not feel that their words (pictures, video, etc) have no ramifications. Having said that, there are some major positives that happen to shy kids and kids who are hesitant to share. Online they can feel more open and honest and this can help work through teen angst. They have an easier time searching for their identity since they can try on different clothes and different people online.
Let’s talk money and resources for a moment. Many people might say that incorporating technology in school is a great thing, but won’t only affluent school districts have access to this? What are your thoughts on leveling the playing field so that all kids can benefit from these technologies, even those whose districts may lack some of these resources?
I want to make sure that i didn’t miss anyone’s comments. Did I? The slow loading time is making it difficult to scroll back and catch earlier thoughts and questions.
Big picture – how will the world of politics change with this new generation? How can the political parties, activists, reach out to this gen and get them to connect and participate in their government?
I’ll check for you…
I think you are up to speed on all questions as far as I can tell.
I get asked this question all the time when I talk to teachers and schools. First of all, even in the least affluent schools, all the kids must have Internet access somewhere because they are all on Facebook. Second, the new stats show that within a short time most teens will carry a phone that is Internet enabled. Just read something that within 6 months 50% of all teens will have an iPhone. Yes, there are going to be lags for the have and have nots but the have not kids already seem to have access somewhere – library, school, friends – and that means that the gap is narrowing.
This generation of young people are the most politically and socially active since the 1960s! This is precisely because information flows online. They watch The Daily Show (hi Jon!) in droves and if they can’t see it on TV they see it online. They are also reachable online easily. Did you see the campaign led mostly by younger people to get Betty White to host SNL? That was on Facebook! And many kids are “fans” of causes on FB and are more socially aware because of that exposure alone. This generation also has the highest volunteer rate which will bode well for the Peace Corp and similar groups when they hit college and beyond.
And you can check out Jayan and my book Generation Change which shows tons of ways for kids to engage with politics!
Sorry Larry, had to plug our book :)
I hear the echoes of Harlan Ellison’s “The Glass Teat” in your reply.
Yes, we know parents who are quite careless with the digital world. One in particular concerns me; her 14-year-old son is at-risk for a number of reasons, and he spends all his free time playing war-centric video games rated M (too mature for my kid).
He doesn’t need to be numbed to violence at his age, nor does he need to be the next gen soldier trained on his own time to destroy the world remotely. (I say this knowing that Special Forces have consulted on development of a number of games; why are they doing this, one might ask?)
…and all sorts of causes too! (plug plug) :)
I hang out at Science Blogs a lot and a big beef over there concerns people who get lots of health misinformation off the internet. I keep telling them “Why don’t you then publicize those websites that DO have good information? Why not have PubMed at the top of your sidebar blogroll?” They have to get better at marketing truth, because when even journalists are notably science-illiterate, the scientists can’t assume that truth will automatically win out over snake oil.
I’m so sorry I am late to the thread, and I apologize if someone asked this upthread (I just zoomed to the bottom)
How is the best way to address cyberbullying and sock puppetry?
For example, the classic, “mean girl” notes that got passed around class when we were young, now get put on Twitter or Facebook, for all the owrld to see–so they do a lot more damage.
And I’ve heard of a rash of instances where one person signs up an account with a screen name that leads their classmates to think it’s one person, when it’s really that person’s enemy–so the outrageous things said by the psuedonym get attributed to the wrong person.
What’s a mother to do?
Since I don’t see any questions that I missed, let me throw out one thought. People worry about this generation and their immersion in media and technology. I think that this gives teachers a perfect opportunity to re-engage this generation of eager learners who WANT to consume media and want to communicate and want to be part of a social world. Teachers can create projects to let students build MySpace pages for a character from Hamlet (MySpace because of the enhanced video, audio, etc), text one another about their work, use online Wiki spaces to share projects, and on and on. Everything i mentioned is free and available and already loved by the kids. We have to take advantage of these opportunities or risk alienating a generation of kids with “Death by Lecture” or “Death by Powerpoint”.
Basically kids can create their own digital versions of textbooks.
As we come to the end of this Book Salon.
Larry, Thank you very much for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and the iGeneration.
Jayan, Melissa, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.
Everyone, if you want more information, please visit Larry‘s website and Jayan’s and Melissa’s website.
Thanks all.
Excellent question! And a sad one at that. I think i have to go back to my earlier TALK model and tell parents that they have to be aware that these things can happen and to frontload their kids to talk to them if/when it happens to them OR a friend. Also, we have to teach our kids that just because it is online it may not be “real” or what it seems. We have to be what i call “proactive” parents.
Thank you for inviting me to participate! My website has lots of resources for people and other musings on these same topics.
Thanks again Bev for inviting us to host, and thanks Larry for such interesting answers and ideas. It was a great discussion!
Thanks everyone! It’s been great spending the afternoon with you here at the Lake.
and let me add my website to the list: http://www.Me-MySpace-and-I.com. the other link is to my blog
oops…. Me-MySpace-and-I.com
Too funny, I was just thinking of your “Death by PowerPoint” in your Top 11 Recommendations (p. 218). A particular PowerPoint created to depict the military’s effort in Afghanistan was the subject of a snowstorm of tweets over the last week, mostly by young military folks who beat it to death. They hate it, and yet both the military and the business world love PowerPoint. It’s going to be an ugly weaning ahead.
I follow Howard Rheingold on Twitter; he just shared this morning something responsive to this point:
Great stuff; I suspect my kids will love the make-your-own-cartoon tool for presentations.
Just had another acquaintance I follow share this:
It’s an absolutely amazing collection of internet-mediated education resources, blows my mind. You’re going to love it!
Thanks much to Dr. Larry Rosen and our hosts Jayan Kalathil and Melissa Bolton-Klinger for being here today. I look forward to the next book by Dr. Rosen which must surely be in the offing.
oh YAWN. I teach high school math at 1 of those schools where over 50% can’t pass the 10 grade math test based upon what it would be great for 8th graders to learn.
HERE is reality. -2.45x^2+7.4x-3 = a random number, if x = 3/4 or 12/16 or -24/32. basic basic basic arithmetic skills do NOT exist cuz everyone is so busy with the latest b.s. about iberry blackpod whizz bang sparkle flash!
We’ll all connect to MIT and do what? Play with the pretty java applets, when they haven’t a freaking clue what any of it means because they have NO sense of what a fraction or decimal or percent is? I might as well have my kids connect to a web site in Beijing and translate the characters.
IF our kids came up with a way to get clean water and good employment to the billions living in squalor, AND, they unemployed me as a dinosaur, I’d pay for my OWN retraining!
SHOW ME.
here’s updated hamlet
what a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculty … how full of powerpoint flash bang sparkle short cut bullshit.
rmm.
(p.s. before you attack me for defending the status quo … YAWN… please note that I am NOT defending the status quo!)
Right on right on seabos84!
I am an engineer, age 62; I collaborate with university researchers and have much exposure to young doctoral candidates in electrical and bioengineering.
I try to get them to understand problems, and the response is, ‘We don’t have to be smart guys; we have have computers.’ Sorry, but that won’t wash. Their work is often filled with conceptual insufficiencies and errors.
Kids like this are not going to lead us forward.
This quick cutting switching of tasks is a sort of disease. They may be wired for it, but they are incapable of concerted thought. Put another way, quick cutting has wired them for ADD.
I am not a great fan of cognitive science, but I have come to subscribe to the viewpoint that when I labor through the mathematics of deriving the equations which describe some phenomenon, I am in fact wiring my brain to understand that phenomenon, or at the very list, a paradigm of that phenomenon with a certain quantitative predictive value.
I use computers all the time; couldn’t do my job without ‘em. But they don’t rule my life. BTW screw multitasking. Recent research suggests it allows one to perform several tasks at once, all sub-optimally.
Peace.
Some things will never be taught with a computer, like learning how to draw, paint (with actual paint), sculpt, horticulture, wood working, plumbing, etc. I would hate to think that our culture has become so wired dependent that no one is interested in the 3-D world anymore.
BTW, I have many students of this age claiming they can multi-task well. I still haven’t met one of them that can live up to that claim well at all.
magnetics -
over 95% of my kids couldn’t decipher
“when I labor through the mathematics of deriving the equations which describe some phenomenon, I am in fact wiring my brain to understand that phenomenon, or at the very least, a paradigm of that phenomenon with a certain quantitative predictive value.”
how could they argue with you?
I’m 50, I was a cook for 15 years – Fine Dining for ~6 years in Boston, then a few years on fishing boats & tugs in Alaska, then I ekkkkkkk-ed out a math degree at the U.W. in Seattle, then I did various support serf jobs in Redmond, a few years supporting enterprise relational databases for SEC reporting at … a place in redmond.
efficiently making grilled cheeses for 120 hungry fishermen takes a LOT of work and planning, making a 120 fancy fancy meals for rich snobs takes a lot of planning and work, and early in my cooking career I f’d up chicken stock 25 out of 50 times before I nailed making top notch fine dining caliber chicken stock 97/100 times.
and about that computer job … managing data for thousands of employees … that only took 1/2 an hour to learn and master … NOT.
PLEASE PLEASE show me the short cut easy way to do things! I’m ready!
I WISH I could get to all the cool things in quadratic equations in 1 week cuz my kids are NOT dumbfounded by exact values ( sq. rt. 42) vs. decimal approximations… and all the other BASIC skills they stop them and that frustrate them. I’d LOVE to spend all my high school math class day on MIT’s websites doing cool things …
This is my 5th year teaching high school math, and I am FED up with these whiz bang bullshitters.
rmm.
Your beef isn’t with the kids — at least those under 18.
It’s with their disengaged parents, and I say that as a parent. There are a lot of reasons why they are disengaged; some are quite simply unable to do anymore than work to keep body and soul together. Some were allowed to skate along through school themselves. I know it because I saw it when I went to school.
And somewhere along the line NCLB made things worse not better because the kids who cannot learn through traditional methods did not have any options available to them to do something else to learn or as post-K-12 development.
If you are as bitter towards your students as you are in this forum, you may also be part of the challenge. An acquaintance of mine is in the same boat, teaches math to middle school students; she is so hostile because of her frustration that I can’t tolerate being around her for long, and I seriously wonder if her students feel the same way. If you are this unhappy with teaching math, it’s time to move on to something else.
For other readers who don’t currently have kids in school, not all kids are as described by seabos84. My kids are both in gifted or accelerated math, the older taking AP Math this next year having finished Honors Math and Honors Chem this year. They do have classmates who can be pistols, but the most challenging students are not in these classes and are required by our home state to get through a couple years of algebra. You can sense the dynamic tension of children who do not have native aptitude for math, who have not been encouraged at home and discouraged by conditions, meeting up with teachers who are being forced to obtain specific outcomes. The result is a bitter mess.
And perhaps that’s why a “rewiring” of national requirements and curriculum is necessary. When a teacher can’t get through to a kid, technology can. It’s a pretty simple formula sometimes. Remember School of Rock? My kids learned to recite the Preamble and how a bill was made when they were little because of these videos — imagine these kinds of tools being more fully integrated into science and math classes.
I’ve got a GREAT idea – why don’t you take a few random comments on a f’ing blog and make all kinds of jack ass assumptions and conclusions about my behavior and my attitude and … my color of socks ??
“If you are as bitter towards your students as you are in this forum, you may also be part of the challenge. An acquaintance of mine is in the same boat, teaches math to middle school students; she is so hostile because of her frustration that I can’t tolerate being around her for long, and I seriously wonder if her students feel the same way. If you are this unhappy with teaching math, it’s time to move on to something else.”
in general, I like your comments – oh well.
it is too bad you’re thinking is so steeped in the a$piring upper middle cla$$ culture of obfuscation, psycho babble and life-is-$e$ame-$treet that you’ll take some blunt comments and make all kinds of conclusions about bitter, angry, negative, cynical, hostile … yawn.
I better start humming “I love you, you love me,…” then my attitude will fit in with the relatively affluent completely out of touch univer$ity crowd who’ve done as much to fuck up educational opportunity for us peee-ons as the fascists have done.
rmm.
There are some recent studies that seem to indicate lower reading levels and lower comprehension levels for boys during the last 5 to 10 years. I am a middle school teacher and concur with many colleagues teaching grades 4 to 8 that the proliferation of PSPs and other video game devices along with texting may be contributing to shorter attention spans and the inability to make meaning out of longer text.
Your point being …?
Listen, I work on medical imaging equipment. For this stuff to work safely, a lot of people (like me and my colleagues) have to to do perform a lot of complex tasks correctly. I design stuff; I also maintain and fix it in the field. There are no shortcuts — you just have to know your shit.
BTW I was never a cook in a fine dining establishment, just a dishwasher.
I’m still trying to figure out if we are the same side of these issues or not.
Peace.
I thought we were on the same side – learning takes time.
I tell my kids in math class that shortcuts are great for getting lost and not knowing how you got lost -
and given how my comments have been interpreted, I quit.
while I certainly could have been more precise … with every word and comma, this is just some freaking blog comments, and I thought things were relatively clear.
rmm.