Morning, Glenn. This victim attitude seems to have started with the right wing but it seems to have spread after 9/11. Am I right or just imagining this?

Yep.

Hopefully, Dr Forbes’ speech will be available later?

Well ingrained long before that but not as widespread. I’ve become quite used to hearing it.

The Left had its share of victim-itis predating 9/11. Recall the myriad protestations falling under the moniker “political correctness”?

It’s really more a function of how far you are out on the political distributions, left or right.

Victimization has its roots in religion. More specifically christian religions and since America was settled by and large by christians of many persuasions and sects who were escaping victimization and persecution in their country of orgin it only stands to reason that it is now part of what is refered to as the “American identity”.

Or founding fathers successfully formed what is largely a secular government free of any one – if not all – formal religions but the “martyrdom” complex is alive and well in the greater US population.

Shrewed politicians, religious grifters and teenagers in particular use the “victimizaition card” as a means to an end, usually one that seeks to get some response and/or action favorable to their pleadings at the expense of the greater majority.

That describes it well but it has been carried to the ridiculous – we tried to steal Christmas, we wanted to close churches, we had death panels, etc. I don’t think these people are even listening to themselves and how crazy they sound.
I hope Dr. Forbes speech will be available or at least the text of it.

In some respects, the feeling of being a victim, is associated and exacerbated by continually being impacted by things that are seemingly remote and generally out of our conrol. It is, I suspect, the price of the living in an interconnected, at the speed of light, global village.

For instance, last week, something happens in Greece or someone types billions instead of millons and
I am negatively impacted by it damn near immediately.

I have been thinking for some time about the uses of victimization to excuse bad behavior – as if two wrongs make a right. This puts some wonderful meat on the bones of my musings.

As for the Bible quote, I prefer *made whole* to *well.*I think that accurately captures the predicament – our unmet need to *heal the divisions and help a divided nation rediscover its unity and shared vision.* It is in recognizing full personhood – our own and others, all part of the same transaction, that we shall overcome. That is why calls for us *rediscover [our] unity and shared vision* are so essential, and why the excessive focus on the sins of our opponents is so counterproductive.

I don’t know. Hate to play the devil’s advocate, but I think the victim card is played by all of humanity. Christians, Muslims, Jews (you never heard that?), all races, all tribes. I think it’s a human behavior. No reason to point fingers. Unless you really have a need to. Then, be my guest. Doesn’t make it so, though.

I consider myself the victim of no one and nothing except for myself. Every problem I have in life stems essentially from my own weaknesses and poor choices.

Nevertheless, I look around and see predators and prey, and a society which smiles complicitly upon predatory behavior when it does not reward it outright. When I condemn George W. Bush and others of his kind, I do so on behalf of those whose lives have been stunted or destroyed, not for myself.

I can’t be the only one who sees the world this way.

Why are we always at the government counterpart to the Wal-Mart service counter, complaining about the state of our lives? It is so much easier, I suppose, than to build an independent, profitable life. Are `corporations’, `globilization’ and `government’ the problem or is it the psychological consequence of living in a complex modern society where individuals feel impotent or, at least, not as powerful as they would like. The ever-increasing social discourse is producing competitive whining as well as the desired synergy for creativity and growth. The question is – how do you discourage the former and encourage the latter? Too many university programs are getting the answer precisely wrong and training perennial complainers instead of productive problem solvers.

Here’s a taste for now…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNPrmMWKM0

I don’t think it’s a matter of pointing fingers. We need to be aware that some people play the victim card in order to get attention and politically, that’s very dangerous. It would be wrong to compromise to unfounded fears when the result could be bad for our country. We have a right to expect people to be honest in their assessment of what is going on and not constantly using some boogy man.

Sorry I’m late today. I actually joined Dr. Forbes at the Cathedral. Yes, the National Cathedral website will have it available shortly. And let me tell ya, the written version is like a skeleton to a full body. Jim lit the place up. Powerful, progressive call for action.

I think there’s something to what you suggest. The Right has long exploited it — someone’s out to get you, someone wants to take something from you — but it has spread, I’m afraid. When I did a little self-examination I found, sadly, it was foreign to me, though I think I fight my way out of it okay. It’s so easy — lazy, really — to fall into a “we’re doomed,” “the bad guys are so powerful there’s no hope and I’m off the hook for not fighting” kind of thing.

Now our democracy seems to be turning into a victomocracy. Everyone’s a victim of everyone else.

And those who aren’t victims are merely claiming to be ‘market makers’ or use other means to avoid culpability for selfish, socially destructive actions.

I think this whole ‘victimology’ topic merits more thought.
I shall ponder it, because I think it promises to be very revealing of a lot of American society, particularly the cloying, holier-than-thou sneers of the Palins, Becks, Hannities, and (that Minnesota representative) Bachmann.

As I said, I’ve even found it present in myself. I do think this all-too-human weakness is consciously exploited by some while others try to help us escape it. The distinction is worth noting.

More thought. Really, Jim talked to me about this then sent me the speech, and all I can really claim now is that it’s unsettling. As noted, easy enough to point it out in others. The real work involves myself. Also only beginning to think through the cultural, spiritual and political implications. Please, maybe in future posts, let’s return to this and you can add some more of your thoughts.

Victimization has its roots in religion. More specifically christian religions…
Smells like a finger to me. Just saying.

Well, victimhood means everyone else has to change to accommodate your (or my) injuries, eh?

It’s a great way to suck energy and make unreasonable demands without having to step up to the plate and change yourself.

(No doubt this comment will arouse the ire of some; I stand by it. Palin doesn’t have to change; Beck doesn’t have to change because they are ‘injured parties’ or ‘victims’ so the rest of us are supposed to accommodate their claims indefinitely? What poppycock.)

how do you discourage the former and encourage the latter?

That is the question. It’ll take a lot of us to answer it.

I agree that the right has taken advantage of human weaknesses. And, I note that.

Well said. I hate whining.

It’s a complex topic. Prophets and leaders from many traditions have, it seems to me, been all about escaping victimhood. Institutions, like too many political organizations and governments, have found producing that passive, impotent state useful as a means of control. Wow, that’s saying a lot in a very short sentence. It’s a very complex issue. I don’t do it justice here, but maybe open the idea….

Something happened to the rest of this comment….now I can’t remember what it was!!

I wonder if the feeling of victimization didn’t come about when we were children….”Mom always liked you best!”…
Very thought-provoking.

I’m sure I’ve indulged myself in it. It brings in focus why the often repeated, “Yes, but nothing will happen because the American sheeple only care about American Idol, blah blah,” bugs me so much. It’s just negative.

I feel comforted to know that other people do that, too. :)

I think it is very important to keep front and center the distinction between “victimhood” and actually being victimized.

One is imaginary or exaggeration (malingering?) and the other is not.

I wish there were better language that would keep the distinction crystal clear.

The fake victims keep us from paying attention to those who need our care and concern. That’s just wrong.

You have a beautiful and complex mind.
Here are two songs that represent different points of view:
Tied To The Whipping Post
and
Bill Withers

Thanks so much, demi. I think the compliment applies to this whole community.

In any large city(perhaps small towns also) there are organizations whose members regularly submit themselves to various torments for pleasure.

I don’t know if the academic psychologists are interested and have anything to say about BDSM or the “leather” community. I understand these groups are very ethical and take great care to never actually victimize anyone.

How this relates to the Glenn Becks I don’t know but they certainly know how to do the fakery fuckery dance.

It’a a great community.
(You and I were talking about syncronicity last week. When you’ve finished with your post, you may want to read my diary, as CBL2 and I seem to be connected to some similar jungian human mythological sub conscious.)

Would that be the fickle finger of fate???

Waving to demi and wishing all the ladies of the lake a happy Mothers day☺☺

Can’t wait till the speech is available.. Reading it I am sure is just not the same as Rev Forbes delivery of it!!

Fate, Karma, yep. Seems like a tshirt with a target on it, for sure.

The inclination towards feeling victimized starts percolating when the reality of our own mortality begins to sink in.

Ernest Becker:
“An animal who gets his feeling of worth symbolically has to minutely compare himself to those around him, to make sure he doesn’t come off second-best.

Sibling rivalry demonstrates a problem that reflects the basic human condition: it is not that children are vicious, selfish, or domineering, it is that they so openly express man’s tragic destiny: he must des­perately justify himself as an object of primary value in the uni­verse; he must stand out, be a hero, make the biggest possible con­tribution to world life, show that he counts more than anything or anyone else.” [end quotes]

Glenn, great topic.

I agree being a victim is a universal human frailty and I think it takes enormous awareness not to succumb to it in the moment. Blaming others is an attempt to alleviate pain and to feel better, but taking responsibility is the only way to be free. I find it difficult to be politically engaged, where blaming other people for the country’s problems seems to be common, and also a spiritual human being. I work on making small efforts to be conscious of my manifestations in the moment at the same time being aware of what’s going on around me. I think it’s a balance of seeing myself as I am at the same time that I’m looking outside at who’s responsible for our collective predicament. But I don’t do this enough.

Indulge me, as I have written much about this. The following is an excerpt from a paper I wrote; it originally was an invited chapter for a book published by Guilford, but was considered to controversial. They also had to remove the chapter by Warren Ferrell. If you want to look at the whole paper, goggle “IPT/victimization.”

The Politics of Victimization

The politics of victimization is the most popular political strategy in today’s world. Indeed, the creation of socially-sanctioned victims seems to have become a pastime of the media as well, a phenomenon interacting with special interest groups and bringing a new facet to the contest between political groups vying to establish who has been victimized most grievously. Though it has been used skillfully most recently to depict white males as victims, feminist writers have employed the politics of victimization extraordinarily well over the last three decades. It is a uniquely powerful strategy for the group, but one having, paradoxically, an almost necessarily damaging effect on the individual members of the group who take seriously the mythology created. The strategy — and the mythology — hinges on blurring the distinction between one who is actually a victim and one who takes on the victim role. A victim, by definition, is an injured party. The victim role is something altogether different.

The victim role entails dichotomizing two aspects of the relationship between the injured party and the source of the injury; the first is a power differential, and the second is a moral differential. In constructing the victim role, the injured party is always portrayed as helpless, with that helplessness contrasted sharply against the power of the assailant or oppressor. In the moral differential, the victim is always cast as an innocent whereas the adversary is always malevolent. The creation of the victim role is remarkably simple and parallels the formulation of melodrama; indeed, part of its appeal as well as its power lies in how easily it is constructed and the fact that it does not require much thinking to understand it.

The logical and utilitarian consequences of the victim-role mythology are in sharp contrast to the simplicity of its formulation. First and foremost, the individual or group ascribed the victim role need take no responsibility at all for the state of affairs under which the injury occurred. Indeed, if any contention of responsibility is made, it is met with the ad hominem argument that one is “blaming the victim.”

Secondly, the individual or group taking on the victim role has not only the right but the moral imperative to retaliate and defeat the adversary. If the victim is the innocent, and the perpetrator of the injury is malevolent, then justice can only be served if the wrong is righted, with good overcoming evil.

Thirdly, in defeating the adversary, the individual or group employing the victim-role mythology has the right to use whatever means are necessary and available to win; there is no obligation at all for fair play. This is derived directly from the power differential that is proscribed by the mythology, and indirectly from the moral purity that is also proscribed by the mythology. Thus, those in the victim role cloak themselves in the mantle of righteousness while freely indulging themselves in whatever tactics fit their needs.

In some cases there is more than a kernel of truth to the cry of injustice; yet in few instances is the injustice as pervasive and unilateral as portrayed. However, the political value of ascribing to oneself “victim” status is self-evident. One’s position and political goals are automatically validated, one’s motives above reproach, and one’s tactics defendable.

For the individual, there is a very seductive side to this. The victim role subtly offers the individual the illusion of self-esteem through self-righteousness. By virtue of the appointed evilness of the oppressor, those in the victim role gain the status of righteousness-in-the-face-of-adversity, a truly noble role. Such a device for elevating self-esteem is illusory because it rests on the bad faith inherent in assigning dichotomous roles which rarely reflect reality. As the bad faith of the mythology must ultimately occur to all but the most myopic, the self-righteousness is empty, and bitterness and cynicism will prevail. It is the nature of things that the self-made martyr can nail only one hand down.7

“…Everyone’s a Victim of Everyone Else” Thank goodness someone has common sense so the rest of us can stop hearing the race card being used. Whites are also victims throughout history. TRY & be White in S. Africa…racism is not restricted to just Whites……there is also racism among tribes in Africa.

> Bill Withers

Ha ha, I thought you were going to link to this one: Use Me

Thanks for this aardvark. I hope others come back to the thread to read your insight (and the whole paper).

I wanted to quote this from you;

taking responsibility is the only way to be free

— but then I wanted to quote your whole comment. Everybody read peony@38.

It is so easy to blame circumstances beyond our control and let that make us passive, unfree, and unhappy. Meanwhile, those circumstance get worse and worse. But as you said, responsibility is the way to freedom, which is why folks like Jesus and Buddha told us to get up.

The distinction is critical. All I know it do is never forget to state it in discussions such as these.

Lemme tell you, it was really powerful to hear Jim speak it, move it, dance it, even sing it. And he did all that.

I refuse the mantle of victim.

Or oppressor.

They are two sides of the same coin.

Victimocracy starts with the concept of original sin. What a burden to put on an infant! Guilt gets into the mix and then all hell breaks loose.

IMHO.

Yes as peony@38 says: Taking responsibility is the only way to be free.

You have to honestly assess the environment, your self, and your potentials. Then act. Here’s the kicker: your actions have to be consistent with your honest appraisal. Some doors ARE closed ~ with victim written on them. Other doors are ajar ~ throw them open and walk through. If your choice doesn’t work out, reappraise and walk through another door.

There is a Japanese school of self-help (I cannot remember the name) that advises action, just action. Apart from feelings (like victimization) and apart from worry. ANY action takes you forward. You feel but you also act.

Not sayin’ it’s easy. Sure beats sitting in the corner, though.

You have to be able to ignore the advice you get from others that is advice tailored to their needs and not your needs. That’s the know yourself part. That may be the difficult part.

Carry on, pups.

We all have bad things happen in our lives. And some people are actually victimized by others. And a definition of justice is the “moral principle determining just conduct.”

So, my point is, let’s be careful not to conflate when people out there are using the “playing the victim” manipulation tactic vs. seeking justice for actual victims vs. “vilifying the victim.”

One way to keep these straight is figure out if any deception is going on. That’ll help separate out the false victims from the real ones.

- Tom

Tomorrow, that would be Monday, May 10th, I will make my “Victim’s Statement” to the Court, and to the man who brutally sexually assaulted, strangled, and burned my wife’s body beyond recognition. Our children were 11, 8, and 6 at the time. I have, not in five plus years of time, gone through a phase of being angry. I am a psychologist. The only way I understand not going through a phase of anger is that I loved her so much, the pain and anguish of her loss left no room for anger. Yes, I will confront him with the evil of what he did, the pain he caused to me an my children, never mind the awfulness for her of what he did. And, I will assert that I believe what happened was an anomaly of God’s plan, not a part of it. And I will confirm the rightness of his sentence. I will also wish him well on the journey he has chosen for himself, that in time he may find God’s peace. And I will ask for a sense of God’s Grace for all of us.

I know the difference between being a victim, and being in the victim-role.

DM

{{{{{aardvark}}}}}

I am so sorry for your loss and your pain. I have no words. I will be thinking of you tomorrow. Take care. I add my voice to your hope for God’s Grace.

Just the other day, Franklin Graham was complaining for being dis-invited to the Pentagon and he made the statement that Christians are persecuted and will suffer more so in the future. Christian fundamentalists often claim persecution to rally the troops. They need a demon to stir the faithful. The truth is that Christians in this country have nothing to gripe about. Consider a Christian being persecuted in the U.S. to the plight of a gay person, a Jewish person, a Mormon, a Moslem, a black or brown person, or an atheiest and what they deal with everyday. In truth, Christians are the least persecuted and most protected of all in America. Christains in this country claiming discrimination are nothing but disengenuous deflectors looking for a straw man. I consider myself a person of faith, but those that falsely whine about discrimination have never experienced real discrimination.

My dear God….we never know what others are going through. My heart goes out to you and your family. Peace and courage for your day tomorrow. There really are no words….just tears.

RevBev,

Yours and Readers comments meant a lot to me. Makes me weep. Been a frustrating two hours of helping my sixth grader get is project together, which he pretty much did, but neither computers cooperated with. Makes me want to scream. Got a reasonable facsimile done, though I will have to go in and talk to his teacher personally to explain why none of the four computers we have int the house have powerpoint . . . .

RevBev, and I do hope you get this. My father was an Episcopal priest. I recall when he took his first Parish in 1962 is assertion that he would never have a woman on the Vestry. At the time of his death in 1998, he was fully supportive of the ordination of women as priests and their consecration as bishops. As to sexual orientation, he just didn’t think God was much interested in that, one way or the other.

I have been estranged from the church for some time; God and I have had an ongoing dialog for more than thirty years now. None of that dialog is resolved; but, if anything, I have moved toward faith in the wake of Carol’s death.

So, again, I thank you and Reader for your kind thoughts.

I’m just off the airplane and woefully late, but in case you come back here, Starbuck, I want to say that the idea of “fallen” humankind does partake of the poor, wretched me frame. It’s just one reason why so many progressive Christian theologians (the feminist Rita Nakashima Brock, for one) and preachers are taking on the concept of atonement. We’re so bad Jesus had to die violently to save us. Among other things, it teaches that suffering at the hands of a victimizer is a stairway to heaven, and it erases the possibility of freedom in this world. So thanks for bring this up.

Joyce wrote:

We’re so bad Jesus had to die violently to save us. Among other things, it teaches that suffering at the hands of a victimizer is a stairway to heaven, and it erases the possibility of freedom in this world. So thanks for bring this up.” [end quote]

This, I believe, totally misses the meaning, the (recurring) metaphor for crucifixion in mythology, (death and rebirth). Check out Joseph Campbell, “The Power of Myth.”