swopa!

Americans, it has sometimes been observed, are idiots.

Intelligence is overrated.

Several people who also blog on DailyKos, including me, have questioned the phrasing of the question on the R2000/DK poll. The wording seems muddled. I’m no expert on formulating polling questions, and will gladly defer to anyone who is.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if those numbers change as more oil comes ashore.

Oil gushing from a blown-out well at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico could force closure of the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port next week, authorities said Friday.
The port, known as LOOP, is a platform off the Louisiana coast about 80 miles southwest of New Orleans. It is one of the leading facilities for imported oil, handling up to 1.2 million barrels a day and feeding half the nation’s refinery capacity.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_oil_spill_could_reach_lou.html

My Bold Next week the numbers could change allot.

For everybody else, it seems to be that as long as the oil doesn’t wash up directly in their backyard, it’s not that much of a problem.

If we lose half our oil refining capacity that changes just how long can the strategic oil reserve hold out?
Once thats gone oil prices sky rocket.

It’s moments like this that make me glad I don’t own a car.

Funny Polls I was thinking the same thing.

Same here.

For everybody else, it seems to be that as long as the oil doesn’t wash up directly in their backyard, it’s not that much of a problem.

We’ll see how they feel when they can’t get a shrimp cocktail at their local TGIMcFunsters.

Asshats.

The bigger a problem is the more some people try to ignore it we have seen this with the green house effect.

During the Exxon Valdez spill, health problems among cleanup workers became so widespread, so fast, that medical doctors, among others, sounded warnings. Dr. Robert Rigg, former Alaska medical director for Standard Alaska (BP), warned, “It is a known fact that neurologic changes (brain damage), skin disorders (including cancer), liver and kidney damage, cancer of other organ systems, and medical complications–secondary to exposure to working unprotected in (or inadequately protected)–can and will occur to workers exposed to crude oil and other petrochemical by-products. While short-term complaints, i.e., skin irritation, nausea, dizziness, pulmonary symptoms, etc., may be the initial signs of exposure and toxicity, the more serious long-term effects must be prevented.”[1]

Totally depressing.

Is it possible that people think “stop drilling” means “stop pumping”? That all the existing rigs would just be shut down?

When this crap starts washing up on shore, people are going to change their opinions pretty rapidly. If people understand anything that isn’t money, it’s graphic images. Why do you think the Pentagon has kept such a leash on imagery? Will the traditional media put it in peoples’ faces though is a very valid question.

i think the gusher in the gulf is going to be too big for them to hide. they may succeed initially but it will become too big to hide.

I really don’t think they will. With the major networks being sponsored by oil companies so extensively, I think they’ll control that reporting. Even when it comes time to tell the story of prices at the pump going up astronomically, they’ll just show lousy interviews with people fueling up their cars, and still shots of price signs outside gas stations.

I don’t think we’ll get the kind of imagery we got out of Exxon-Valdez.

For some reason, I don’t think of crude oil as being hydrocarbons, but it is. Maybe that’s because it’s all brown and gooey. Since it is a hydrocarbon, though, and a rather volatile one, the same health effects you see with other volatile hydrocarbons, like gasoline, would surely result from prolonged exposure.

I’m stating the obvious, but I’m fairly sure I’m not the only one who needs reminding.

*heh* I know I’ll have job security in July with this disaster…! ;-)

the networks can’t prevent citizen journalists with cameras from reporting what the oil companies do not want reported when it washes up in their backyard.

*heh* I know I’ll have job security in July with this disaster…! ;-)

what do you mean?

Nowadays, just about everybody has a digital camera. There’s even a news service, Getty Images, that buys images from people on Flickr for publication. They may keep it off TV, but people will know.

I just read that. That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking about is that the air alone is going to be toxic. Thanks for the link.

They asked the wrong question in the polls. Economics is the basis for change, and 4 dollar gas is still a recent memory, one that banning all offshore drilling would be revisited–at least in most peoples minds.

The proper question would be “Since the BP Gulf spill, are you more likely, or less likely to support alternative energy sources.”

and then there are the youtubes….

Does anybody have any idea how long you can safely work cleaning oil?

I’d love to see that question asked in a poll.

“For everybody else, it seems to be that as long as the oil doesn’t wash up directly in their backyard, it’s not that much of a problem.”

Nimby at work, as usual.

I’m headed to the Gulf Coast in July…! I’m truly looking forward to the experience, and plan on blogging it all the while…! ;-)

Imagine the effect on the economy if we lose half our oil refining capacity for a few months? Imagine the effect on the stock market never mind the regular voter.

I’ve been wondering what the hazmat and hazwop training consisted of? if it really is enough. i can’t imagine that they’ll be giving all the workers all the necessary equipment to keep them safe, if that’s even possible.

How far will the smell carry if the wind is coming from the sea?

what job will you be doing there?

Everyone I know in the “bidness” and I mean everyone, hates going to BP locations and refineries.

Why?

I guess it depends how much BP wants to spend to clean up the gulf.
Honestly I doubt they got the cash to clean all the mess, even if they used immigrant labor and no safety precautions.

can you explain what it is about bp locations in particular?

I seem to recall seeing they posted a 1st quarter profit of 2.4 billion this year. Could be wrong. But wouldn’t that mean that they certainly have the cash?

the ads i saw for workers on links from mary’s site were saying you needed to get the training to work. not that i expect that will happen everywhere or even in most places.

Whatever needs to be done…! Right now I’m trying to scrounge up $350 for the federally mandated OSHA Hazwoper course, available online before I arrive there…! *g*

Check this.

I wonder if BP is prepared to pay all the restaurants which will be virtually out of business on the coast. Their menus are for the most part based on fish and that’s why tourists go there. Every business will be effected with no end in sight.

I keep worrying about the fumes people report. Is there no analysis on that?

Nowadays, just about everybody has a digital camera. There’s even a news service, Getty Images, that buys images from people on Flickr for publication. They may keep it off TV, but people will know.

and then there is us.

i bet a lot of that hazwoper training is about how to avoid breathing in fumes, etc. training that the residents won’t get unless they personally decide to pay for the course.

The proper question would be “Since the BP Gulf spill, are you more likely, or less likely to support alternative energy sources.”

Good question OFG. Time for a serious boycott if they don’t put everything they have into cleaning up our gulf.

Is that cause their facilities tend to explode? And they lie about having rescue/clean up supplies available? And cause they try to get scared, desperate people to sign away their rights to sue? That everything they do is on the cheap except the pay they take?

Sort a like that?

Not for the reasons most would think. BP has a terrible safety record so they put everyone through these orientations and you get read the riot act. You have a job to do, but you feel like you are wearing a straightjacket the whole time. Every stage requires a committee meeting. Sometimes doing something safe can be deemed unsafe by some safety expert fresh from school.

An actual example: I delivered a gas compressor to a BP location. The met me 5 mile from the location at the junction of 2 state highways. Bear in mind this was the tail end of a 600 mile haul for me. Nevertheless, every wire that crossed the highway on power poles from where they met me to the location, they stopped me, got out of their pickups (three trucks full of important people) surrounded me and my load, and gently waived me beneath the wires.

The load wasn’t even very tall, and stopping in the middle of a Texas 70 mph two-lane, doesn’t strike me as safe.

I haven’t seen anything. Just common sense that you can’t work in a toxic environment and not suffer.

Uh no they don’t have that kind of cash maybe over 20 years they could pay that kind of cash but how likely is that.

They should be boycotted NOW and never allowed back in our waters and/or land.

I’m late to the party so I might have missed it. However, does anyone know what the story is on the giant, magic steel-concrete hat that was to be dropped over the leaks? Did it work, or is it still too early to tell?

They have to let the thing settle for 12 hours and then hook it up.

I think that would be called justifying your existence. :)

People who live in the area should get a course like that for free. They’re the ones inconvenienced by this. Why should they pay to be educated on how to clean it up? At $350 per course, they could afford to train hundreds of people for what it costs us to blow up a house full of non-terrorists in Pakistan.

Always interesting to see the bribe list. In this case, it would be the grease list.

Looks like the industry has been doing a bit of influence peddling.

How many workers does it take to clean a mile of coastline after an oil spill. How long does it take them to do that? If the spill gets as far as Florida I have my doubts if the spill gets past Florida I’m guessing no.

Too bad they no longer have service stations around here. I can’t boycott them anymore.

So I guess they did manage to hit the target. Now they hook it up and see if they can slow down the gusher? 85%? Um….I dunno…

geez louise – i bet they also left the tail of your rig unwatched and unprotected from a rear end collision each time

Saw an article somewhere that said they would have a handle on this disaster in about 3 months.

Rachel reported tonight that there were seven “top executives” of BP on the rig when it blew to bestow kudos for safety. I’d like proof.

Still too early…! It hasn’t been tried yet…! It merely hovers above the main seepage point…! Of the three acknowledged leaks/seepage points, one is capped, another has that ‘coffer dam’ hovering over it and the other one, well we shall see…!

Reminiscent of the folks who helped on 9/11 and ended up with cancer.

i wonder if the 7 got off the rig and were the ones who preventing the rescue ship from taking them back to land.

Looks like our girl Blanche is right up there at the top of the Whore List.

Not for the reasons most would think. BP has a terrible safety record so they put everyone through these orientations and you get read the riot act.

Window dressing to satisfy the fire marshal a fire marshal who is paid to look at showy surface stuff but ignores the real violations?

A handle to fix it, clean it, or just how big it will be?

They have a lot of offshore drilling in Arkansas. s/

I don’t understand. We’re they looking for terrorist type stuff? Isn’t there a way to discern?

It seemed to say to clean it – which I don’t believe for a minute considering they are still finding oil on shore in Alaska.

Natch. Drilling for Dollars.

I’d like to see the skidmarks in their panties.

How often is that list updated I’m sure every name on the list is asking for more money for their support as this crisis gets worse by the day.

Soon it will be drilling for Jesus.

and the title of that exercise was “maroons on a mission”?

Agreed I doubt 3 months would do it. Is ET around do people fish in that area of Alaska? Do they notice any funny taste to the fish?

But I thought Jesus was celibate.

For everybody else, it seems to be that as long as the oil doesn’t wash up directly in their backyard, it’s not that much of a problem.

Ya mean we ARE supposed to give a shit if somebody’s else’s back yard gets all screwed up with oil sludge?? Come on where is the I got Mine and Fuck you if you don’t spirit??? Shit we gotta DRILL baby DRILL Baby so we can make us all warmer.. Who likes winter any way??
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they still find oil on rocks on the shoreline

i thought that was how long it would take them to drill the relief well and get the oil to stop gushing from the wellhead.

I suspect they update as soon as the regulatory filings are made, whenever those are.

I’m not the conspiracy type, but it has long nagged at the back of my mind (such as it is) that these legislators could also be being greased into offshore numbered accounts. With far-flung, transnational corps, it would seem relatively easy to push a little off-the-radar cash around. Again, probably a nutty idea, but I can’t help but think it…

The place is still fucked up. The fishing never came back. And BP was in charge of the clean up. Had told the Alaskan government it had stored booms on an island. They lied. If they had the supplies they were supposed to then the oil would have been contained around the ship. Greg Palast wrote about it yesterday at truthout.org.

I’m sure they’re already dreaming up their ad campaign.

Its a razzle dazzle a big show to make it appear they care about safety when the real stuff is not checked or even regulated.
The bigger the obvious and stupid the safety rule the more BP can complain please don’t regulate us more.

They really need to put some profits into infrastructure. They have a lot of creaky junk. Imagine a bright, shiny new sign, with a special, snappy typeface that says, “Safety Pays!” hanging on a rusty pipe with half of the rivets missing. If you can imagine such a thing, you can imagine my reaction to taking out my ink pen and writing across the bottom of the swell sign: UNLESS IT COSTS EXTRA!

That was my understanding, too.

12 disciples the desert gets cold at night. Plus he liked to hang with fallen women I think he was Bi.

what? their was a rescue ship prevented from going to land?

Careful, you don’t wanna piss of George Rekers.

I agree..boycott BP now. Arco is BP.

Yet ANOTHER environmental disaster unfolds out west…

http://www.bgladd.com/WindFarmAirSpill.jpg
http://www.bgladd.com/NYTimesAirSpillReport.jpg

That “safety pays” sign is a helluva lot cheaper than actually doing something constructive. And these guys are all about cost-savings, as we know…

No fishing 20 years later hmm? So no fishing in the gulf from New Orleans to Florida and thats if they stop the leak now.
No swimming means Rush’s beachfront property just lost a ton of value and every beach front hotel well spring break just got canceled.

am trying to remember where i read it… it was in an account by those rescued speaking out for the first time — they were on that ship, which was a delivery ship already there iirc, and the ship stayed there and they had to watch the rig burn knowing that 11 folks were not accounted for

then when they did get to land, they were taken somewhere and forced to sign statements that they were not injured etc.

No its not nutty This is a great question. I’m not sure who even to ask to answer it.

ha!

At the very top. Halter will benefit.

Several people who also blog on DailyKos, including me, have questioned the phrasing of the question on the R2000/DK poll. The wording seems muddled.

I agree, but the problem wasn’t the main question about favoring/opposing drilling, but the follow-up question — and the dKos post has been updated to say the question was transcribed incorrectly (i.e., it was OK in the survey, but botched in the post).

I suppose if they hadn’t signed they’d be sleeping with the oily fishes.

hey swopa — how ya doing tonight?

Aside from the fact that most of these Senators are power-mad ego-manics, why else would anyone in their right mind spend tens of millions of dollars of their own money to land a job that pays about $200G’s, give or take? I just can’t get my tiny little pea brain around that one.

After the Santa Barbara spill, I was getting oil all over my feet while surfing in 1971 in San Diego. Couldn’t wash that off.

I’d normally say piss on…but he might enjoy it.

*heh* That would be the 100 ya just snagged, M’dear…! Oh Noes…! ;-)

thank goodness its not my thread :)

If Blanche’s slavish whoriness gets sufficiently publicized. Hear that MSM?

Inside stock tips? Call your cousin tell him invest in KBR they just got a big contract in Iraq building showers for the troops.
Then have your cousin write you a campaign contribution. Or set up a secret Swiss bank account for you.

Yup.

in israel in the 60′s and 70′s there were black gobs all over the beach and at the exits to the beach were these roller kind of things sitting in gasoline or kerosene iirc that we rolled our feet over before we left the beach to clean them. then hot soap and water when we got home to clean that.

They need gold glitter.

“I see” says the blind mouse to the mute mouse…! ;-)

The connections you make being a Senator allow you to build a network that will serve your family for generations.

Anyway, the salary and other compensation is secondary, most Senators are already millionaires. You have to be well connected just to get the job.

What happens if hotel’s along the gulf coast all start going bankrupt? Gulf coast sea food restaurants 1/2 of them go under, home foreclosure’s are up but if a bank repossess a beachfront home now that has a back yard covered in oil what price could they expect to get 1/2, 1/3 the original price even if the rest of the housing market recovers.

Like Jay Rockefeller. Maybe they want to keep their hands on the reins.

This is joke stuff, right? Onion reporting? Neither of your links worked other than as photos.

True but lets not forget power and fame anyone can be rich but power and fame can get even Newt laid.

Aloha, rf…! I do plan to be in central Fla. in late July/early Aug…! Any chance I could say ‘hi’ to Bob…? ;-)

The connections you make being a Senator allow you to build a network that will serve your family for generations.

I guess that’s why they blow smoke up each others’ asses with the phrase, “The most exclusive club in the world.”

I have a client that lives in Destin, Florida. He used to be a wingnut repug. Now his info facebook page has his Political View as None Anymore!

I wonder how the oil spill is going to effect Disney World? Sort of takes the glow off of Snow White doesn’t it.

Yep, and it’s not necessary for them to be super greedy or do anything illegal. The connections they make will allow them to make legitimate investments that will end up making them quite rich, or richer. John freaking McCain is supposedly worth $40 million WITHOUT Cindy’s inheritance. He didn’t get that being a financial wiz, he’s just well connected.

And the fucker still cashes his social security checks.

You bet but Bob and I will be here in central Illinois. :)

I’m worried about spocko. He’s a hero.

And congrats on the 100!!!

Yep and I hate to think how much more he gets from SS than I do.

hahhaahaha.

There is, thankfully, a limit.

Almost, the former presidents club is probably the most exclusive.

Like these guys…

Dangnabbit… I thought you were both Floridians…! My Bad…! *g*

Which makes me wonder why Beau Biden decided not to run for his dad’s seat. Maybe he actually has some principles.

or he got a better offer.

I’m worried about spocko. He’s a hero.

why are you worried? what’s he done?

Being rich will usually suffice, or so I’ve been led to believe. Will never be a factor in my case.

Oh, man. Really good point.

Maybe Disney will change her gig to something involving hot oil-wrestling? After all, it is the “magic kingdom.”

This part of the country already gets too hot and humid for me. We are probably just as flat as Florida. Haven’t seen mountains in 35 years. I miss that. Can’t travel though because there’s no one to look after Bob. On the bright side he keeps me from talking (exclusively) to myself.

This oil spill could give us a few southern states.

Well, Beau is in Afghanistan as I type…!

He’s just worked his ass off on calling the sponsors of Beck/Hannity/etc. to account, and has done it to the point of giving up other things. He says he may have to cool it.

He’s truly a hero of mine.

Our county is having a free electronics recycling drop off tomorrow. Got a truck full of old stuff to haul out there first thing so I will now bid you all adieu.

LA, AL, and Florida. Maybe MS. If the spill travels up the East Coast then we get:
GA
SC
NC
and
VA.

oh geez. Please forgive me.

Not necessary, M’dear…! You’re absolved…! ;-)

I knew a woman about 15 years ago who had a collection of birds you wouldn’t believe. About an acre of international birds in cages, many having come from illegal sources ( She just cared for them, she wasn’t doing anything illegal). Many were from the San Diego Zoo as birds that had been “extras”. Many had been abused…ie tropical birds living in freezing climates, so their feet had been frozen on the perch…

Basically, I just know this woman (who made bird gruel in the middle of the night) cannot still be able to do it. Wonder what happened to the birds.

Plus, you couldn’t possibly imagine how loud it was. One visit was more than enough for me. These suckers are LOUD!

I know this sounds trite…but..We Are So Fucked.
We have friends involved in the Exxon catastrophe in Alaska. Fucking lawsuit lane. It is SO propaganda spin to think there’s any legal venue against big oil lawyers. This is the end of our America as we imagined her to be.
Rest in History, you proud vision of a Governed State.

The facts are our friend. Hyperbole is our enemy.

Many have said this and I have to agree: As long as there are minimal oil and tar stains on the tourist beaches there will, sadly, be little public outcry.

Marine life, food chains and ecosystem are sufficiently out of sight & mind that their total destruction would only begin to register on the minds of the Consumer Republic when the all-you-can-eat Shrimp & Crab specials vanish.

Came in way too late for this one, but just want to say this was an illuminating thread, on a lot of levels. I love the FDL community (and thanks for the post, Swopa.)

Special hail to TCU, my friend…

There’s green clean 4th generation nuclear power http://energyfromthorium.com

Ya think? LOL.

Two of my 3-minute Photoshop spoofs.

The point being _______________________________________________________?

I worked on the Exxon Valdez when it was in drydock in San Diego. This was late 80′s early 90′s (don’t remember the exact dates). They were changing the name.

The names on ships like that are welded on big steel plates shaped like the letters. You don’t just go up on the side of the ship (or stern) and paint on a new name.