Screw Schumer and his Israel First policy.

Blame America First. Thought that’s what Republicans called Democrats. Have we switched sides.

We sound so patriotic. Are we now supporting the war in Afghanistan.

Schumer could not undermine Obama’s Mid East policy anymore than Obama himself.

Obama tries to get the parties to come together, and then puts in place policies that drive the two sides further apart and makes them more intransigent. Bottom line, we are worse off today than 18 months ago.

Blame the results on whatever party you want to, but WHO is supposed to be managing this process?

Think like the other side. If I were the Palestinians, I’d just be sitting back waiting for Obama to do my work and get concessions from Israel because that is what he is working hard to do. I’d have NO incentive to do anything.

Likewise, Israel is pissed off and less anxious to do anything.

Schumer just recognized the “Genius” has no clothes.

You might say he sided with good judgment against Obama. Not a foreign government against America.

But, maybe Obama should get Pelosi on the case and just shove something through with not agreement from both sides together. That seems to be the only strategy Obama can manage.

Uhhh…what?

Again this is just a pseudo-difference of opinion. The bottomline is that Washington in general supports Israel to irrational extremes and our country not at all.

The middle east is a conundrum, but what would you have Obama do? He asked the Israelis in private to hold up on the settlements. They told him to take a long walk off a short pier. So he went public. I believe there has to be a one state solution, but it will be a cold day in hell before the Israelis agree to anything like that. It’s like a dysfunctional marriage. Plenty of blame to go around.

Schumer is the typical Zionist who takes his marching orders not from his constituents but from Israel. Hey! Chucky! The people of New York elected you, not the people of Israel!

“It’s like a dysfunctional marriage. Plenty of blame to go around.”

Who knows a good divorce lawyer?

If Obama had an effective policy, Schumer might be able to support it.

So far, in reality, Obama has not shown himself capable to bringing two sides on any issue together. OK, when he gives away something, the other side will come together.

The ONLY way he has been able to accomplish ANYTHING so far is forcing issues through on a one sided basis. Anything he has tried bringing two sides together who are not like minded, he has failed.

Margaret, are you a New Yorker. Me too.

Well, Schumer’s disgusting, of course, but playing the traitor card is straight out of the GOP handbook.

“So in one shot, Schumer 1) publicly sides with a foreign government over the United States.”

There’s nothing wrong with “siding with a foreign government.”

I appreciate the post calling out Schumer on his Likudnik fanaticism but it’d be nice if you did so without the pro-American jingoism.

I’m not a New Yorker but I’m reasonably certain that was who elected Schumer…

Israel get American aid and they get healthcare better than us thanks Chuck if Obama lacks the Stones to deal with you we have the facts that could make it very hard for you to be reelected.

“If Obama had an effective policy, Schumer might be able to support it.”

You’re joking, right? If Obama had an effective policy–that is, actually getting tough on Israel instead of merely pretending to–Schumer would be so pissed he’d probably challenge Obama in a primary.

cregan maybe we have a difference in opinion but I think the whole criticism about Orahma wanting the Israelis to stop seizing Palestinian ancestral land and building on it is way off base. Why is it unreasonable for Orahma to insist that they stop that policy, the policy which Schumer seems to be criticizing?

Look Obama find a Dem to Primary challenge Chuck then campaign for that Dem.

Agreed I like his policy I think he could do more though.

I figured you weren’t.

Hey Chuck: Aren’t you and your BFF Holy Joe supposed to be parachuting into Iran, or something?

Yes there is, when a) you’re a US Senator and b) the foreign government you’re siding with is wrong.

Doesn’t the latest nuclear pact count for anything ? That represents a seismic shift away from another Cold War and upcoming sanctions against Iran. And that takes away one of Israel’s main talking points.

Across the Globe, the view is that Obama, HRC & Mitchell & Co. are doing incredible work towards resolving the I/P mess.

WAY more! And put some teeth in it! Like cutting off the money flow.

Light up his phones:

Washington, D.C. Office:
313 Hart Senate Office Building,
District of Columbia 20510-3203
Phone: (202) 224-6542
Fax: (202) 228-3027

New York Office:
757 Third Avenue, Suite 17-02
New York, New York 10017
Phone: (212) 486-4430
Fax: (212) 486-7693

Buffalo Office:
130 South Elmwood Avenue, #660
Buffalo, New York 14202
Phone: (716) 846-4111
Fax: (716) 846-4113

Rochester Office:
100 State Street, Room 3040
Rochester, New York 14614
Phone: (585) 263-5866
Fax: (585) 263-3173

Albany Office:
Leo O’Brien Building, #420
Albany, New York 12207
Phone: (518) 431-4070
Fax: (518) 431-4076

Binghamton Office:
15 Henry Street, #M103
Binghamton, New York 13901
Phone: (607) 772-6792
Fax: (607) 772-8124

Syracuse Office:
100 South Clinton Street, Room 841
Syracuse, New York 13261
Phone: (315) 423-5471
Fax: (315) 423-5185

Peekskill Office:
One Park Place, Suite 100
Peekskill, New York 10566
Phone: (914) 734-1532
Fax: (914) 734-1673

Melville Office:
145 Pinelawn Road, Suite 300
Melville, New York 11747
Phone: (631) 753-0978
Fax: (631) 753-0997

B.T. !

Great Post … call bullshit on Schumi and his cohorts.

I figured you weren’t.

LMAO! Does the Texas shine through?

What Phoenix Woman Said !

Huh?

Its wrongness is a separate matter. You clearly took him to task for the act of siding with a foreign government. His sin, according to you, was that he:

“1) publicly sides with a foreign government over the United States.”

So what? As for being a Senator, what possible difference could that make?

Treason putting the interests of a foreign country ahead of America. Especially if it leads to the death of Americans Israel gets aid and we fight two wars with Israel’s enemies curiously never going after Ossama in Pakistan.
Because of this we don’t have enough money for real healthcare so X amount of Americans die. Ossama lives or heck its almost been a decade he might be dead of old age and Israel thanks to us gets the healthcare Chuck and Joe think Americans don’t deserve.

1. On the 14th, I wrote an open letter to Sen. Mark Begich, regarding his signing of the letter along with 75 other US Senators, chastising Sec of State Clinton for criticizing Israel’s illegal policies re East Jerusalem expansion. I published it at my blog and at The Seminal. Since then, I’ve been under pressure to resign my leadership posts with the AK Dems.

2. Here’s a link to Max Blumenthal’s video, taken in NYC during the Gaza invasion of 2009. In it Schumer speaks up, beginning at 36 seconds.

Lines are being drawn in the sand, aren’t they? People are picking sides in this internecine war, and it’s long overdue.

Schumer and his AIPAC buddies publicly rebuke Obama for calling out the pubic disrespect shown to Americas Leaders. There is literally nothing Israel could do that Schumer would criticize them for. He ought to be deported to there,and have his citizenship and visa revoked in my opinion.

They must attend some kind of Orwellian school where Israeli supporters go to unlearn critical thinking. It’s like a virus and they pass it on to others. The more it we ignore it the more it spreads and reinforces itself.

From Haaretz on 04/ 21/2010 Indyk says if Israel takes the our money then they have to take our advice.

Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk said on Wednesday that if Israel is a superpower that manages alone, then it can make decisions alone.

In an interview with Army Radio, Indyk said that if Israel sees itself as a superpower that does not need any aid from the United States, then it can make its own decisions. However “if you need the United States, then you need to take into account America’s interests,” said Indyk.

Indyk, who is currently the vice president and director of Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution, and also serves as an adviser to Mideast envoy George Mitchell, emphasized these interests in a New York Times op-ed published on Monday. …

This is important. When Martin Indyk is introduced It’s usually not mentioned that he is the Director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy.
The Saban Center was founded with the help of prominent Los Angeles businessman Haim Saban, who made a generous initial grant and pledged additional funds to endow the Center. He calls himself a one issue guy. Israel is that issue. He is one of the 400 richest people in America.
According to SourceWatch

Haim Saban is an Israeli-American media-mogul, one of the biggest contributors to the campaigns of pro-Israel politicans in the U.S. and has been described by a New York Times reporter as a “tireless cheerleader for Israel.” He has also founded various centers and institutions to produce policy research favorable to Israel.

What a thoroughly absolute view of a thoroughly relative situation. You make it sound so simple. Why don’t you propose the details of the peace plan, or the plan to dismantle the Israeli state, whichever suits you better. The world awaits.

ET !

Could you do a Diary on the pressure for you to resign and give us some numbers, so we can call and express our thoughts on the matter ?

Nuclear Pact is good Agreed but how does that relate to Israel? Thanks to Bush lots of Middle East countries are getting Nuclear Reactors.
I can’t confirm who is building the reactors or what type of reactors are being built some reactors can be used to make bombs the fuel for reactors can be diverted to make dirty bombs given the lack of water in the area a few dirty bombs could cut Israel’s water supply off.
Either we get a peace deal a fair one or it is very unlikely Israel will be able to survive.

Well they do love that world Zionist in Texas.

Great point, but poor choice of words, BT. A rhetorical own goal. Can’t we disagree without name-calling? Demeans us, first of all (aren’t we supposed to be adults here?). And it just gives opponents a handy excuse to dismiss everything we say. How does using Emmanuel’s words move our shared narrative even a syllable forward?

How ’bout we try to understand the background whence this bipartisanship arises, instead of name-calling?

It’s not retarded, my friend, it’s the power of myths. Greenwald notes today that, “Whoever complains about the lack of bipartisanship in Washington should watch what happens when the word “Israel” is mentioned.” So why is that?

What is the organizing principle that explains the strange bipartisanship on all matters Israeli? Obviously, their shared mythology.

No, we don’t do that on the Left, we don’t like religion, so we ignore its role, and the role of the background myths, in our politics. How wise is that? Taking on the shared mythology of the Left and Right, as revealed in policy towards Israel, in public, is a taboo we need to bust to smithereens.

We don’t have to talk about the bipartisanship over Israel in religious terms, we can look up and see how fundamental assumptions about being human are expressed in political economies. I’ll go first.

The myth, that the cosmos is either god’s own, or no one’s own, construct, a mechanism, governed by the laws of which our culture is the (supposed) ultimate expression, sponsors the subordinate myth of American Exceptionalism. The mastery of this Great Cosmic Machine is believed to be all about leverage.

The sleight-of-hand here lies in the perfect conflation of the Throne of Heaven with the Bully Pulpit. To oppose the state is to oppose the natural, some would say god-given, order. The economy and military are believed, in this mythos, to be god’s own, or no one’s own, justice-dispensing machine. If you’re rich, god must love you, or you sure know how to work the system; and if you’re poor, well, what did you do to deserve it?

Both the Left and Right come to agreement in the belief in the supremacy of patriarchal kinetic power as the supreme force in the world. The myths of the supremacy of our mechanistic, reductive, Newtonian science, and our resulting economy and military, power the Pentagon’s doctrine of full-spectrum dominance. For some, it’s life as holy war, just as god intended; for others, it’s all about the raw power of dominance.

Just so, Schumer’s mythology shapes the world in which he acts. What is that mythology? How does his worldview inform his actions?

Wouldn’t that be a more informative discussion?

We have to introduce the actual beliefs about the world held by the actual participants in these events, in order to understand them. Or we can call them names and strut around feeling very cocksure of our self-righteousness. If I wanted that, I’d go to Daily Kos.

There are plenty of other ways of being human, than for Americans to strangely believe themselves to be either servants on plantations, with souls in peril and in eternal debt to our natural born MOTU, locked in an eternal holy war; or soulless Newtonian voodoo dolls at heart, nothing but god-forsaken dirt, ripe for exploiting as fast as industrially possible.

Fundamental change in America demands examining, and likely changing, some fundamental assumptions about what it means, to be an American citizen today. For example, I want to see Israel and the US be honest about everything, and give up this “calculated ambiguity” myth. I want senators like Schumer to put their worldview on the table, so we can see where he’s coming from and where he thinks he’s taking us. I want to see his vision of the world. How does name-calling help?

Also, I really wish, in our forming our more perfect union through the medium of this shared narrative we’re creating, we could stop reducing us citizens to mere consumers, business owners, workers, and other Dickensian stereotypes. I firmly believe that we need to act as citizens, nothing less, in the political arena. That means respecting other citizens enough to understand, not simply vilify, them. And so on.

Are we citizens, or are we servants? Citizens, or mere appetites on two legs, easily jacked?

How should us US citizens behave towards Israel? Obviously, how you believe the world to be composed and the proper human role in it will inform that answer before you type a single word.

That’s not effing retarded, BT. That’s the power of myths.

That’s what I’m saying. And the source of that irrationality is…their shared mythology!

No.

I’m being attacked from the right enough already. I’ve got more important things to do than attack the Democrats on an issue on which they will not budge until a new generation takes over party leadership.

I’d rather sign on as a deckhand on the MV Rachel Corrie than go public on this at this point.

There are a whole lot of active and committed “Zionists” who really are Chuck’s constituents here in NY (and NYC particularly). I take your use of the word as supporters of Israeli dominance over Palestine, including the West Bank. A significant number of current settlers on the West Bank were actually born in the US, particularly Brooklyn.

So, it’s not inconsistent to say that he has zionist supporters who are constituents and, on the foreign policy front, sees his interests and supporters wanting him to take Israel’s side. Many of his constituents and most ardent supporters are American supporters of AIPAC.

I say that as a constituent who vehemently opposes those positions…and, quite frankly, Obama’s minor pushback on Israel has been one of the few brightspots I’ve seen in his administration. Again, it’s been weak, but I’m becoming accustomed to eating crumbs.

It’s not relative. Every President since Reagan has opposed settlements. And I love how criticizing Israel is tantamount to “dismantling” it.

If you’re trying to be the perfect caricature of an Israel apologist, you’re doing a great job.

All that’s needed is for you to call me an anti-Semite, and you’re there.

Your take is off the mark too.
Obama’s administration was ignoring the evictions and settlements in east Jerusalem, but 1400 new homes were publicly announced when Joe Biden was visiting. He had to speak up or lose all credibility because America has been disingenuously stating they are a approaching the peace talks with clean hands, without their thumbs on the scale.

Our leaders were forced into this position.

Treason putting the interests of a foreign country ahead of America.

Man, you sound like Cheney. How did that happen.

Cheney, by the way, would completely agree with what Schumer said.

Part of the problem that the US has been having is the fact that the Jews are severely over-represented in the US Senate: there are twelve Jewish Senators, while only three percent of the US population is Jewish. There is only one black Senator, while blacks are about twelve percent of the US population. Latinos and Muslims are also severely underrepresented in the US Senate, the US House of Representatives and state governments.

thoroughly relative situation.

Israel has been getting aid from us for decades for longer than I’ve been alive I think its a Permanent situation. Israel is not a State its dependent on our aid that makes it our puppet.
A Puppet that thinks it can pull our strings. We get a peace deal Israel can start paying us our aid money back with interest right I man Finland paid us back for WW2 debt right surely Israel is as great a friend to us as Finland.
How much do they owe us?

A depressing article by Alex Kane this morning on just where the East Jerusalem thing might stand right now in the WH.

Essentially, it appears Obama and Mitchell have been cut out of the process by Dennis Ross and our good buddy, Rahm. Either that, or what is happening in that respect is pretty much what Obama is willing to accept.

“Haim Saban is an Israeli-American media-mogul, one of the biggest contributors to the campaigns of pro-Israel politicans in the U.S. and has been described by a New York Times reporter as a “tireless cheerleader for Israel.” He has also founded various centers and institutions to produce policy research favorable to Israel.”

Also, he was the Briber in the Pelosi – Harman wiretapping thing.

“California Democrat Jane Harman, battling a controversy over her interactions with a suspected Israeli spy, was overheard on a 2005 wiretap discussing a failed fundraising ploy designed to get her named chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, according to a former national security official who has read the transcript.

Harman was heard lamenting to the suspected Israeli agent how the tactics of a major Jewish fundraiser to use the threat of withholding political donations to California Democrat Nancy Pelosi to win Harman the gavel of the House Select Committee on Intelligence had badly backfired, the former official said.

Harman’s conversation with the suspected spy was picked up by federal counterintelligence eavesdroppers as part of an investigation into the activities of the alleged Israeli agent.

The New York Times on Tuesday identified the California donor as Haim Saban, “a vocal supporter of Israel” who made a fortune on his Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.”

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2009/04/source-wiretap-caught-harman-d.html

Let’s not take this too far… At the same time as announcing this pact, they are threatening sanctions against Iran and trying to inflate their nuclear ambitions…while continuing the policy of ignoring actual Israeli nuclear capabilities and funneling them giant quantities of cash.

Really? I know precisely one (1) but then I don’t hang out in neocon circles.

When did I ever out an American spy?

Saw that at Glenzilla. Glad you hit this. It is f*&king r#!&rded.

I agree but they couldn’t ever come close to being a majority of his supporters. No way, no how.

Good point, ET, just wanted to let you know that we support you 100% !

Aren’t the Generals saying if Israel attacks Iran things could go bad for our troops? Another Israeli war or slaughter of civilians caught on tape could do the same thing.
Lets see what Chuck says in response to that question.

Is this a typical friday news dump item?
well if not then it may be like that in coming in the midst kind of political chaos of late.

Someone used the metaphor “ratchet effect” earlier in the week, and here it applies perfectly:

Funny, I don’t remember Chuck getting pissy with Israel when they humiliated the Vice President.

this item is a way to move the agenda, and shows how timing to squeek in at a good moment works, but you busted him. way to go!
He makes his points with his people, did anybody expect otherwise?

Chuck needs a nice hot bowl of shut the fuck up.

This will not change for at least 10 to 20 years. Some of the most articulate American progressives are Jewish, and have been for over a century. Since 1948, most elected Jewish Americans have been heavily targeted to buy into the Zionist expansionist narrative. They didn’t run, in most cases, to defend Israel. They ran on a range of issues, most of which progressives heartily endorse. But the reasons Jewish Americans elected to the US House and Senate are ardent Zionist, almost to a man, often has to do with the histories of their families and friends, and is, IMHO, very deep trans-generational PTSD.

Targeting Alan Grayson, for instance, over his Zionist stances with a primary opponent would be much less productive than attempting to engage him in debate or dialogue upon Palestinian rights and American obligations re UN resolutions and other international sanctions against Israel that our government supports.

Geez, you went all Joseph Campbell. I’ll tell you what’s not a myth. The Palestinians are being systematically killed or shoved off their land and out of their homes. They don’t have the necessities of life like food, meds, etc. Israel is doing pretty well, thank you and sneers at us because we are weak enough to bow to their every wish.

Yeah, I don’t remember Schumer ever criticizing Bush on anything as vehemently as he is going off on Orahma over Israel but then Bush loved him some Jerusalem.

*Zing*

Good point:)

Six Catholics on the Supreme Court. No quota system in the U.S.

Thank You:)

I hope that you don’t give in to that pressure. Don’t let the terrorists win, even if you can’t scream to the high heavens about it.

Point taken. But given the singularly monochromatic uncomplicated view of the Middle East morass I see here, I’m happy to be an Israeli apologist, and a Palestian apologist as well. It’s just such a disservice to both their respective realities on the ground. Of course, both sides are probably serving up their own version of the one flavor easy to swallow generalized narrative for the US market. They’re assuming anything more dimensional would be too complicated for American minds. Dunno, they may be right.

Wrong: SEC officials watching porn while wall street crashed is fucking retarded, the SEC inspector general says that this dates back to at least
2007 now that is fucked.

Right? And precisely zero atheists on the SCOTUS and one in the entire legislature.

” But the reasons Jewish Americans elected to the US House and Senate are ardent Zionist, almost to a man, often has to do with the histories of their families and friends, and is, IMHO, very deep trans-generational PTSD.”

Oh, well. That’s fine then. Guess we’ll just have to put up with it.

Okay….maybe it’s a good thing you’re not “perfectiontopic”… ;-)

White House pushes back against Schumer- via HuffPo

I wonder when Schumer’s BFF, HRC is going to show up and smack him down ?

Schumer is just doing what certain donors are telling him to do. Expect nothing less, he’s just a politician.

Woops typo. Was meant to say..

Well they do love that word Zionist in Texas.

singularly monochromatic uncomplicated view of the Middle East morass I see here,

Funny we see people being killed for decades and nothing being done that works to stop it. We think its time to try something else. Cutting off their money is us being nice. Going to the World Court and declaring Israel’s leaders War Criminals and Freezing all Israel’s assets abroad that would be the next step.
Us being Mean would be an air strike and if Israel were Iraq it would have been done by now we airstriked Libya
for less.

Are you calling Margaret antisemitic?

How come nobody ever laments the absence of agnostics? I feel so left out.
Losing faith, as it were ;).

No, it is – again, IMHO – real post traumatic stress.

Sure, the Holocaust industry that Norm Finkelstein has so ably documented, plays a part, but I’ve seen Jewish friends or relatives react to stories we heard together from survivors of the WWII camps and progroms. The transference of the rage part of the PTSD onto Palestinians might fare more productively if we see how this relates to generations through the eyes of real young people now.

The most fascinating thing to me about the BDS debate happening on campuses right now, is seeing young people on both sides reaching beyond the talking points, seeing solutions that people who have experienced the entire history of Israel/Palestine conflict, as I have, find hard to imagine.

I am sure Mr. Schumer will be glad to know that he has gotten his last vote from me, evahr. He’s worse than Lieberman, but thank the FSM, I don’t live in CT. Bye bye, Chuck! It’s been great having you, here are some lovely parting gifts.

Considering that Rahm works for Obama, it is probably true that he is doing Obama’s bidding.

“There’s nothing an agnostic can’t do if he really doesn’t know whether he believes in anything or not”. Graham Chapman.

First, as has been pointed out to me here, both sides in the Middle East are Semitic.

Second, does anyone ever reflect on the fact that the Arab world generally, including the Palestinians, don’t think Israel has a right to exist, and that in their wars they openly stated they would kill every single Israeeli man, woman, and child if they could?

I’m uncomfortable with many Israeli actions, very uncomfortable, but I’d be equally uncomfortable with those other facts. The discussions here do seem to be rather one-sided. Can I wonder why, without calling anyone anti-Semitic?

FDL sure loves the word Zionist. Haven’t seen the word get this much play since, I dunno, Vanessa Redgrave or something. Does Glenzilla give you permission to feel comfortable about using the word.

LOL. Well, at least it makes it easy for me to consider all sides of an argument.

Well Okay then. Please forgive me that I don’t cut ‘zionists’ (what do I call them?) some slack when they attempt to bribe the Speaker of the house to appoint people they like to positions of power because they have PTSD from hearing about the holocaust. I don’t mean to minimize the holocaust, but that’s not enough of a reason to excuse shit like that, imo. Wasn’t a law of some kind broken there?

Thanks, more information makes it more significant that Martin telling Israel if they don’t like our advice, feel free to go it alone, without all the cash.

Just like Obama as a corporatist who ran as a dem can do more rightwing crap than a Republican can get away with, he can use the jewish and pro-isreali people inside his administration to push israel with.

Whats in a name Would a rose not smell as sweet Zionist is a name but its the wrong name killing defenseless people merits the name Murderer. I’ll agree with you on Zionist and I will be nice by not saying Murderer again.
We want peace if Israel doesn’t then we want to stop giving them cash and weapons let them kill people with their own tax dollars.

I don’t need anybody’s permission to feel comfortable using the word Zionist.

Fuck Schumer, fuck the Zionists, fuck the Israeli government and fuck Likud.

Which begs the response: and whose fault is that? Sounds like Blacks, Latinos and Hispanics should participate in politics and, possibly thru some of their ethnic organizations, offer more candidates.

A lot of laws have been broken over the years by people in the USA, acting on behalf of Israel, and against American interests. Most likely, it is happening right now. The chances of anyone ever being prosecuted for any of these outrages are almost non-existent, though.

Numerically no, but I think it is safe to say that they may form a majority of his power/fundraising base.

The Stern Gang, Irun and Haganah were all Zionist organizations. Thugs and murderers all. The IDF was born from Haganah and is no better.

Sharon and Livni were in Kadima, Lieberman is in Yisrael Beitanu, Ehud Barak is in Labor, all of the major Israeli parties, not just Likud, produce monstrous leaders. I’d suggest you don’t focus on just one party.

Well first, regardless of how many groups are semitic, ‘antisemitic’ is generally used in relation to Jewish people. So. Huh.

Second, I think Palestinians have a legitimate beef regarding ‘Israel’s right to exist’, with the british. Also I have no doubt similar words are said every day by Isrealis.

I’m pissed off that as an American I have to be dragged into the whole mess!

You’re right. I focus on Likud because it’s the most right wing but there’s not a lot of difference between the parties when it comes to killing Arabs.

Do you have proof of what the arab world believes? Can you point to that, because it sound’s like hasbara. I’ve never seen any proof, except for pointers to zionist blogs that make the same claim.

There was a time when “anti-Semitic” referred to people who didn’t like Jews. Now it refers to people the Jews don’t like. Alan Dershowitz is famous to labeling “anti-Semitic” anyone who breathes a whisper of criticism towards Israel.

Until we stop doling out 3 billion dollars annually to Israel in a direct military subsisdy, nothing will change. But why not we’ve set up a universal health care sysytem in Iraq and we’re putting Afghans to work.

I’m really tired of the whole ridiculous shtick.

Razorbrain,

That is a very irresponsible accusation. This comment thread represents a lot of things, but I don’t sense actual “anti-Semitism” here. Rather than ask you to define your use of one of the most misused terms in dialogues on this set of subjects, I’d rather you point to specific instances in this thread that you consider cross your line.

What I see here is some commenters being rather well versed on this subject, and others who have just recently become disturbed at the imbalance of U.S. policies regarding Palestinian rights and US obligations under international law toward Palestinian rights.

Me too but this is the first time I can remember where US public sentiment is turning against Israel. I became involved with the Arab community here when Dr Sami al-Arian was first charged. It’s been quite the experience.

too many Jews is the problem?

gotta love that one.

Yisrael Beitanu is the most right wing. This is Israel’s fascist party. The current foreign minister of Israel, Avigdor Lieberman, who lives in illegal ‘settlement’ in the West Bank, is a member of Y.B. and was their last prime ministerial candidate.

@razorbrain:
There is a big difference between the “state of Israel” having a right to exist within an undeclared space without borders or within occupied territory they are unwilling to vacate, and the right of jewish people to live.

Hamas has recognized that Israel does exist as the authority of the state of Israel and who they have to negotiate with. There is a problem with declaring an object as having a right to exist, and especially since it is only an idea, and a social contract between the people of Israel.
And OTOH, Israel doesn’t recognize Hamas, and they are the democratically elected representatives of palestinians.

Do you see a conflict here?

These are manipulation word games played by Israel leaders to keep from having to come to the table.

I have no idea where you got that from my comment.

I know, it’s bullshit. And it just goes on and on.

And Republicans trying to blame Bush SEC actions on Obama: Even more priceless. Still, what Schumer did is unconscionable. I’d rather keep Harry Reid as Majority Leader — he at least, while he doesn’t attack the right folks, won’t attack the wrong ones for the wrong reasons.

Is that what you think? Shame on you!

A Puppet that thinks it can pull our strings.

Could it be more complicated? Like, A cabal or (some other better, non judgemental… term,) pulls strings from other locations remote from Israel propper, though often through Israel, and elsewhere, effecting the appearence of undue influence from that location, but really not initiated from Israil ?

BTW It is understood, ie: many in Israel freely, object to some of the policies,

My laymans understanding of these things notwithstanding… Going back a ways ie: Balfour Declaration and beyond, Israil was set up from England, for semi altruistic purposes of the “return to Zion,” mainly a proxy territory for the domination of the mideast, other uses of the influence channels are probably because it has been so successful as a third rail. Or an especially useful tool, so the thing has grown, but that’s just a through out.

tails don’t really wag dogs.

Above @ budda made a point that seems well based that understanding the situation might be helpfull, so it is time to think about calling it as it is:
I’m too slow a reader to take on more of it.

I want senators like Schumer to put their worldview on the table, so we can see where he’s coming from and where he thinks he’s taking us. I want to see his vision of the world. How does name-calling help?

No, he must really think that, as he said, “too many Jews are the problem”. Why would he say it, otherwise?

sorry, I clicked on the wrong comment. I know you know.. It’s razorbrain that I meant to reply to.

What I really wish FDL had was a regular front-pager or seminal diarist who is a professionalized I/P activist who has been to Gaza and the West Bank, done more there than snap some photos and write a report, but activism, etc. I mean someone who might even know few words of Arabic and Hebrew and is engaged seriously in the issues. This is a figure who is definitely got some standing to write on the issues.

I forgot about Lieberman. Duh. One would think fascism would be less than acceptable to the Israelis.

Nation-states aren’t as important as they used to be, eh?

Write to Phil Weiss. He has a long list of articulate people who fit your set of qualifications.

The summary phrase “too many Jews” is a fairly gross mis-representation of what Teller wrote and is also a very typical response from anyone who really, really isn’t comfortable with reasoned and reasonable criticism of the US/Israel relationship and how that relationship exists in the US.

I would recommend:

Samar Jarrah

Samar Dahmash-Jarrah is a Kuwait-born Palestinian-American speaker, journalist, and educator. She has traveled extensively throughout North America, Europe, and the Middle East and has lived in Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and America.

She is currently the co-host of True Talk,

True Talk is a global affairs talk radio show hosted by Ahmed Bedier and Samar Jarrah. The show focuses on the Middle East and the Muslim World. The show also discusses issues that Muslims face world wide, as well as for American Muslims who are seeking to live as peace-loving Americans in a nation that often has only seen stereotypical portrayals of Islam.

Samar has made a number of trips to the ME lately as her mother still lives there. I’ll ask her if she might be interested.

Are you implying that the 12 to 1 ratio is primarily about the motivation and organization of blacks (and latinos). Are you serious?

I have always been a supporter of Israel but I reserve the right to criticize them when they are wrong…..especially when we send so much money and arms. It’s a shame that Israel is turning into what they hate the most.

Placing aside the insanity of the Hitler regime with respect to Jews, gays, gypsies, Communists, etc. – fascism as a political system is deeply involved with ethnic purity (Zionists: OK with this, they’re “God’s chosen people” and exclude the goyim, etc.), militant nationlism (Zionists: OK with this), and mythical revivalism of an ancient glory (Zionism: Based on this). It is not at all surprising that Israel would have a fascist party if you look at Israelis as a nation of people and a political movement pre-dating the twentieth century, not just solely through the lens of the Holocaust as if this is the only notable historical background through which to understand Israel.

“The summary phrase “too many Jews” is a fairly gross mis-representation of what Teller wrote and is also a very typical response from anyone who really, really isn’t comfortable with reasoned and reasonable criticism of the US/Israel relationship and how that relationship exists in the US.”

He was insinuating that Edward is similar to Hitler.

If such a figure and, of course, FDL itself, were interested, I’d be OK with it. However, FDL is not primarily an I/P zone and it could be that the time and resources a professionalized activist would have to expend to regularly produce quality entries here (for free) would not be worth the impact – there might not be enough readers focused on I/P at FDL.

I think mafr was attributing that sentiment to EdwardTeller, not his own.

And, I’d just like to echo ET on his response to mafr: where did you get that from? It’s incendiary and it’s completely baseless.

I got the obvious ‘anti-Semitism’ bit I was just trying to respond seriously: taking an obviously intelligent and meaningful statement, and attempting to summarize it in a very mis-representative way is typical of someone who simply isn’t up to confronting serious challenge.

I can’t argue with that.

I’d have to think that if it were known that we had a regular writer here we’d be swamped.

Yes, and you said it very well. I think it’s good to be clear about the intent of the cheap tactic, in addition.

!!

First point, that was my reaction, too. Just playing on that one.

Second point, it’s clear to me that there’s plenty of anger, hate, and blame there for all sides. Makes my head hurt to think about it, and I have no workable solution. So, I avoid those issues generally and focus on how we’re getting fucked in this country. That’s enough to take all my energy. And then some.

Swamped might be good. What I wouldn’t want is lots of vacuous angry ranting and trolling. Everyone who tries to talk about the I/P issue always has to watch out as any of us can easily succumb to anger surrounding this issue.

Where I am coming from is, that, so much internet discussion on Israel, Zionism, etc., comes from at best people who have tried to study and learn from afar. There is a small group of political activists who have, in addition to the easy history study, done the hard work of going to the Occupied Territories and Israel, who have developed a language background and cultural fluency of some sort, who have gotten their hands dirty doing actual work and who have at times risked themselves greatly when conflicts devolve into violence. Probably FDL, which is unusual for political web sites in that the content is primarily driven by serious professionalized activists, would benefit from having any Middle East commentary on the site informed by someone with more standing.

Don’t know how old you are, but I was around and sentient throughout the 50′s, 60′s and 70′s and 80′s. Those sentiments were openly and frequently and gleefully expressed by the players. There are no good guys there. It’s a mean neighborhood and they are all willing to kill to get their way. There’s nobody there I would want to defend or associate with, I just don’t like one-sided conversations. I worry that we are on our way to being like that in this country, and am much more conerned about what happens here. Triage, you know?

I’ve been commenting at fdl since mid-2005. I/P used to be terra incognita, in a way. Your comment could go into mod overnight if you typed “AIPAC.”

Thanks mostly to Siun and a few others, this blog gained more perspective. By the time of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006, there were a few diaries allowed that questioned the premise of the invasion. Since Operation Cast Lead, fdl has been rather more open about I/P than most blogs. At Daily Kos there are about 20 commenters who attempt to crash and trash any I/P thread that doesn’t adhere to the conventional narrative that allows for continuing illegal Israeli occupation and expansion. Here, not so many, but if fdl adopted a niche for these issues, we would probably see a few dozen uber Zionists and paid astroturfers show up regularly when I/P was discussed.

My friend, I’m disturbed by everything that happens over there. Which is why I try to stay focused on what is happening here. A man’s got to know his limitations. And regulate his own soul. IMHO

What I want is for FDL to never become another “Daily Kos”, exactly because of situations like the one you describe. From my standpoint “Daily Kos” is the absolute best example of what a politics web site should never aspire to be. Perhaps if a there was a regular “established” I/P diarist at FDL – maybe someone actually posting from within Israel and the O.T. – all the upside would be lost as a horde of trolls pro and amateur descended on the web site to try drown the information.

And I do have a feeling that if a serious observer was to take up a roost here, that a number of people out there with negative intentions would certainly register to be notified whenever the diaries list was updated here …

Frankly, I don’t get why this issue excites so much more energy than that of any other oppressive and/or genocidal situation that exists in the world, and there are many. Something is up when I see that kind of hyper-reaction, regardless of which side of the arguments it comes from or is directed toward. Since I tend to shun the kind off irrationality that frequently accompanies that kind of energy (both sides), I usually obey a personal rule not to touch the tarbaby. So, off to gentler climes, where I can talk about the fascism and corruption right here in my own beloved country.

Anyway – you’ve got a good idea. Let’s keep thinking along your lines. Off to work. Giving early finals to two kids who are about to be deployed.

Sounds fine – if you were to try to invite or recruit someone with real standing, I assuredly encourage you to make contact with someone at FDL first (probably Rosenbaum, as diaries show up on the Seminal which is his) and get an OK for it.

I’ve never heard it come from a palestinians mouth, only as heresy from apologists. The nearest statement I have ever read is the PLO charter that recognized that Israel was an expansionist state that would never be satisfied to stay within it’s borders and they must not give up the fight. Mighty prescient they were, and that Israeli plan to take the middle east is backed up by plenty of Israeli documents.

Appealing to age, then the false equivalency that they are all bad actors?
So are you backing off that statement then? We don’t get to hear the Palestinians side very often and have to rely on historical proofs.

I was here during that time. We’ve grown. The issue is not going away and, imo, “silence is betrayal.”

SF’s right, though, we’ve already seen how the hasbara folks and other trolls have tried to disrupt Siun’s and other posts on US-I/P.

I said EFFECTIVE policy. Not just policy.

We are in worse shape now than before. There is no real prospect of substantive talks and all appears heading in the wrong direction.

Getting tougher on Israel might have some validity, but not in the clumsy, ham-handed manner it has occurred.

The two sides are further apart because:

1. Obama gave the Pal’s incentive to hang back and wait and see.
2. Obama pissed off the Israeli’s with afore mentioned ham-handed, not sophisticated, tactics.

Word! It’s the myth that in-forms, de-limits, de-fines, the actions. Therefore, to stop the actions before they start, to make them unthinkable, bust the myths.

Malicious myth-making is the state of the art, for getting us self-sovereign US citizens, to abdicate our power by believing absurdities (Saddam’s got nukes! Give the banksters all our money or the economy will explode! Iran’s got nukes, Israel doesn’t! etc.), after which we’ll support or commit any atrocity, as long as we believe it’s for the good of Uncle Sam.

The difference is that the oppression and slow, painful ethnic cleansing is being carried out in our names, with our money, and against our will. The passion is driven by the ability to look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others first.

Nonsense. The housing was announced by Israel while Biden was visiting. This is the reaction that should be expected by any self respecting nation.
Saying that the earth is flat doesn’t make it so. I’ve commented on this already

Hey, Chuck. Had Charles Freeman over for cocktails lately?

Effective means that it yields results. I haven’t seen any results. Only a worsening situation.

An effective policy would have a better situation today than 18 months ago.

The housing announcement was preceded by months of inept, ham-handed policy that produced not just nothing, but worse than nothing.

Had nothing been done, the situation likely would be better today. That isn’t a plea to do nothing, or saying that doing nothing is a good idea; only that, in this case, doing nothing would have had better results than the Obama policy has produced.

The US shouldn’t be humiliated, but, then again, Biden is humiliating in and of himself.

ok then the consensus seems to maintain the tail wags the dog. Tiny Israel tells US where to get off.

One of the ways I will use to keep not believing this is to get me a good setter dog, they can control their tails and point their master in the right direction.

If god wanted dog to be led by the tail, he would’a put eyes, nose, and a mustache on it.

Exactly what is this ham handed policy that you are referring to, and what exactly do you mean by ham-handed? I disagree that it is worse than before. Obama is stronger than ever before on this issue. He has much American support in confronting the intransigence. It is Netanyahu that is weaker and seen as a problem by the Israeli people that would like to see a real agreement reached, not just endless dialog, and pre-dialog and dialog about dialog.

Howie Klein has just posted the best essay on the Schumer position I’ve read all day:

Israel is not America, America is not Israel

To:

Edward Teller. Re : “too many Jews”

sorry, should have been more clear:

at 57 someone posted the following:

Part of the problem that the US has been having is the fact that the Jews are severely over-represented in the US Senate:

You responded to that.

I was really responding to the original post, which said there are too many Jews in the Senate.

If that is not simple straightforward anti Jewish/anti semitic commentary, nothing is.

Any think it doesn’t?

hope that’s more clear.

Sorry about the confusion.

sorry folks, again, I was referring to 57.

By the way, I am Jewish, and I do not think that Jews are overrepresented in the senate, or anywhere else.

I better be a little more careful when posting.

again sorry, but please tell me, do any of you want to defend the statement that:

“Jews are overrepresented in the senate?”

accepted.

I look forward to the day when the USA begins reducing our outlandish support of Israel—by about 10% per month. That should get their attention and probably unseat Bibi.

I hate to say this, and rarely do, but you are not based in reality.

Maybe you didn’t see the poll of Israeli’s that said 95% thought Obama was anti-Israeli. That is pretty big and indisputable. Contrary to what you say, Netanyahou can ignore Obama and still be OK.

So, first ham-handed policy was Obama putting himself in such a bad PR position so that his pressure on the PM would produce no pressure in the Israeli public.

Part of that was the ham-handed way he brought up and worked the entire settlements issue. He did it in such a way as to guarantee the response he got. Rather than some more finessed or intelligent way that would have produced movement in the direction he needed.

There is no way the situation is better than a year ago.

Obama is weaker because Israel is not paying attention to him, and he has made himself so unpopular there that he has no public pressure lever he can employ. He is weaker with the Pals because his ham-handed policies produced nothing for them and they see his promises as largely betrayed.

Truthfully, I don’t think anyone over there pays any attention to Obama. Why would they??

He has shown himself to be a paper tiger. And, they don’t like paper tigers in the Mid East.

Worse than the Israeli’s or Pals, the Iranians are really making Obama look like a paper tiger. They mock him, he does nothing. They pass his deadlines and he does nothing. They are not paying any attention to what he is saying because they are now certain he will never do anything effective to them. Note again the use of the word “effective.”

Schumer was only confirming that the “genius” has no clothes.

If you really think that, you don’t know the people of Israel.

It would be kind of like the bombing of the UK during WWII, it would bring them MORE together, not less.

Your whole spiel is one long glittering generality. And I have to ask you who is it better or worse for?
Gaza is receiving only 17% of their needed supplies through check points, and more than half of the children are malnourished. That has gotten a little better in the last few weeks for the first time since Hamas won it’s election.

Polls are most certainly disputable. Who did the one you are referring to?

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” Frederick Douglas.

Cutting aid to Israel would be equivalent to bombing the UK?

Please. Who’s not dealing with reality here?

You’re absolutely right. Here’s a video that clearly portrays how well-loved Obama was in Israel back during the time period you cite.

How could he have been such a fool to throw that degree of goodwill out the window, eh?

Fuck off Chuck! We’re sick of you and Israel! It’s is they who should get their shit together. We’ve got tons of problems of our own. We’re FUCKING SIKCOF ISRAEL! Fuck you and Joe Libermann!