It’s always going to be easier for them to win the message war when they control almost all the messengers.

Interesting post, BT. Of course, one should never trust the government no matter who’s in power. That’s why we have a *supposedly* free press. And, ironically, it was Reagan who said, “trust but verify.”

And, ironically, it was Reagan who said, “trust but verify.”

He stole that line from St. Paul, of course.

How can the Democrats hope to win any messaging war when they insist on colorless leaders like Harry Reid?

Reagan was an actor. All his lines came from someone else.

The Apostle?

Yes they are.
Republicans are also allowed to lie, as it is understood that any lie they tell is in service to the cause, and thus acceptable-even admirable. Also, given a choice between voting for a real Republican or a fake one, people will vote for authenticity every time.

How Very True… Someone had their hand up his butt and made him do/say what they wanted him to… Just a good shill thats all he was…

It’s also fascinating because the GOP used to talk about running government like a business (eMeg still talks this way, but she hedges). And yet, any business run as idiotically as the GOP runs government would go belly up, and quickly. As businessmen, the GOP rank-and-file must understand this, looking in from the outside when the GOP poobahs run the country.

Why do they put up with it, and even trust it? Is it all low taxes with these people, and (if so) how do you explain their Reagan worship?

I really believe they live in an alternate FOX universe where a different fact pattern prevails.

Great post, BT, thanks.

I prefer to think of Harry as “Mr. Thunderbolt.”

The very same.

Who knew they had nukes back in the day?

*g*

I agree it was lifted, but I’ve never heard St. Paul?

Yeah, I don’t think they’ll go back to that particular talking point anytime soon, with the crooks at Goldman Sachs in the news these days.

The rank-and-file Republics don’t focus on that because the Republic Party keeps them distracted with sensational rhetoric on social issues. The Party knows that the rank-and-file will never notice that those issues are never actually addressed, just rolled over from election to election.

Thanks B.T.

I didn’t see anything in those number that’s encouraging (other than the smallest difference between D’s and R’s was during Jimmy’s turn).

Amazing how well liked JFK was.

I think there are still a lot of GOPs who are intoxicated on the “run government like a business” kool aid. And Whitman? I hate to think she might be the next governor of California, but with a war chest like hers, it’s possible. Next stop: Veep nominee for 2012? Palin-Whitman? Nice ring, but Bachmann would be pissed, no?

I suspect some of that was because of the assassination and how he was “hero-ized” after. I was a newlywed and my husband and I bawled our eyes out that entire weekend.

Thanks for that observation. I was in grade school at the time of his death but do remember the feeling of Camelot. It doesn’t say the date of the poll for his numbers does it?

I also just noticed that LBJ is left off.

Look at the Republicans and Independents during the Kennedy administration. What kind of permanent trauma was caused by the assassination of JFK, then MLK and Malcom X? . Remember the dixiecrats fled the Democratic party when Johnson created social programs, and Republicans helped him get them passed?
Magnetic pole flip?

I’d like to see the numbers go further back.

I suspect that the JFK numbers were probably similar for Ike.

And Vietnam and Watergate.

All of that in just over a decade, 63-75. I’d have to say we seen some shit. Then add Darth/Shrub.

BAGHDAD — U.S. and Iraqi forces killed the two top al-Qaida figures in the country in a nighttime rocket attack on a safe house near Saddam Hussein’s hometown of Tikrit, a joint operation the U.S. called a significant blow to the insurgency and a sign Iraqi security forces are strengthening.

From HuffPo

Remind me again how many times we’ve killed the number 1 and 2 guys of al-Qaida in Irak?

What kind of permanent trauma was caused by the assassination of JFK, then MLK and Malcom X?

And the Specter is still on the Government payroll Aarrggghhhh

Remind me again how many times we’ve killed the number 1 and 2 guys of al-Qaida in Irak?

5 as of this morning

doveryai, no proveryai. A russian proverb

And Vietnam and Watergate.

Different Decade. Same or Blood Related Cast.

And yet, any business run as idiotically as the GOP runs government would go belly up, and quickly.

I would just like to point out that our former Prez, W (you know, the guy with the MBA), supposedly did run the country according to the Rethug concept of how you run a company, just as Michael Steele is currently doing at the RNC. That is likely the reason that, at the end of his term, our economy all but crashed and burned. It would have, that is, were it not for the TARP bailout. That is not capitalism.

That’s going on today with the self deluding obama followers. It’s not limited to Republicans – there are rightwing authoritarians following this democratic President but they believe they are progressive.
The preacher and author Frank Shaeffer of CRAZY FOR GOD is a classic example.

- http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/2009/12/obama-will-triumph-so-will-america.html

There are Obamabots, sure — but look at the overall numbers. There’s no surge among Democrats of love for the Great Leader’s Great Government as you get with Republicans.

Republicans love government when they’re running it.

Yeah, this is probably not measurable except to say no one trusts any of them much.

I also just noticed that LBJ is left off.

Johnson is combined with JFK in this poll, apparently not taking into account his second term.

I trust ‘em. About as far as I can throw the structure I live in.

You’re right.
Probably the upsurge in Dems during a dem presidency is the Authoritarian Dems the twin of Republicans wearing a different color outfit..

“The party of “government sucks — vote for us” is still winning the messaging war.”

The republicans are very good at articulating core principles and sticking to them. Anti abortion, tax cuts, even the government is evil mantra.

The democrats have no core principles. You cannot win the “messaging war” without them.

Well that’s because of your superior powers of observation. I think politics attracts a pretty nasty kind of person, just like used car lots.

Oh I dont’ know I think the Democrats, with the sellout in the WH, have nailed hypocrisy as their core principle.

neither has many principles. They both have wedge issues they manipulate the public with.

I’ve been thinking about that lately– how Democrats repeatedly fall in line behind Obama. First he pees all over them, they complain, then they quickly fall back in line. Look at how the Orangutans caved on HCR. They’ll all vote for him again in 2012, like a bunch of sheep. It’s discouraging, and disgusting.

Used car salesfolk will just take your money. Politicians will not only take your money they’ll take your life and the lives of everybody you know as well.

That’s a funny thing.. how many number 2′s are there in a complex network in loya jurga council?

You bring up another excellent point, BT…we have a major political party in this country that has as it’s creed that government is the problem. Ideologically pure, when in office they dismember and discredit the government any and every way they can…and then hold the failure of the now-dysfunctional government up as proof they were right. We have a party with a vested interest in governing badly, in order to prove themselves correct.
And people vote for them.

That’s a funny thing.. how many number 2’s are there in a complex network in loya jurga council?

I believe the number theoretically is related to the absolute value of the number of alternate realities existing within that spatial plane

Jon Walker has a fresh cross-post available: Americans Want More Diversity in Their Political Choices

I should be more respectful and not compare them to any profession, illegal or otherwise.

Yep. “Heckuva job, Brownie” really works for them.

See? Government sucks! We told you.

The Democrats and Barack Obama must make an affirmative case for government or this trend will continue.

Which tells me that this trend will continue. Obama isn’t going to make that case, and as long as he isn’t it’s pretty clear that other Democrats won’t make much of a case, either.

Yes. Along with the kind of blind faith that one normally associates with religious extremism and the self-image of a persecuted fringe.

People who think that the government should be run like a business don’t know what it takes to run a government, and probably don’t know what it takes to run a business, either.

I wonder what Senators and Representatives would do in a government run like a business. Seems they’d be unnecessary, even undesirable.

You mean like Decider Bush (MBA Harvard ’75)?

Authoritarianism is the key to this issue, as I recently blogged. On the economic and taxation front, the war is corporatists vs. populists, but on the philosophical front it’s authoritarians vs. small-d democrats. The reason the gun-toting lunatics emerge from the woodwork when Democrats (to say nothing of a black Democrat) take the White House is that AUTHORITARIANS ONLY RECOGNIZE AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT. This can include Democratic party members. Racism contributes some of the negative energy, but if Colin Powell were Republican president right now I don’t think we’d see the same problems we’re seeing now, because he’s military and military=authoritarian.

Different parties exploit this just like they exploit other forms of bigotry, but the real philosophical challenge right now isn’t Republican vs. Democrat or white vs. black, it’s authoritiarianism vs. democracy.

I’m sure they fancy themselves as being just the sort of people who would be on the board of directors, or shareholders, as the case may be.

Yes, that’s who Ann in AZ was referring to.

Had some discussion about this over the weekend. There very different skill sets to run gov’t, than to run a business. Not that a *skilled and competent* business person couldn’t learn and figure out how to run gov’t and vice versa. But so many people, esp Republics, simply ignore this fact or don’t get the difference.

Our gov’t is NOT a business, and, frankly, it’s not supposed to be. Yes, yes, running the gov’t efficiently and effectively, employing some sound business practices is all to the good. But it’s not a simple apples to apples situation at all.

Plus you have the fact of someone like W, the legacy ‘Vard MBA, who is known only for his ability to run businesses and the US gov’t into the ground. WTF?? Like who’s kidding who here? Pull the other one, please.

Most Republics with any brains are just in it either for the tax cuts or the draconian social stuff or both. The palaver about running the gov’t like a business is just window dressing, imo. Nothing to see here, kiddies, move along now.

Don’t get me started on the dolt-in-chief, Carly Fiorina, and her bid to run for CA Senator. Talk about running businesses into the ground. Sheesh! Yeah, right: I really want her for Senator… NOT!

That be the one!

Interesting point and agree for the most part. Stated somewhat simplistically but definitely part of the equation, for sure.

Again, the bs about running the gov’t like a business is, imo, just window dressing and really has no meaning, other than as stick to beat up on Dems.

BT

Just wanted to throw out a thought. It hasn’t been thought thru, but what the heck.

What if all legal entities, those that can vote (us humans) and those that can’t (corporations) were limited to a maximum dollar amount per year in political and/or campaign contributions (including political pacs).

Let’s say it’s $100 per year. Total.

What would the affect be. Any?

That’s an interesting way of spinning the fact that 4 out of 5 Americans don’t trust Washington, Blue Texan. It has to be your most ridiculous and vicious post ever. Your own link explains why, but apparently your hatred blinded you from seeing it:

Distrust of government soars when the public is unhappy with the way things are going in the country.

If Democrats think that the public is mad now, just wait until the VAT shows up, and other Taxes start going up even higher.

just wait until the VAT shows up

There’s a dandy that’s blowing in over the horizon.

And it’s not all that regressive either (eyes roll)

How do you explain the wide swings of the Republican “trust” numbers, and the consistency of the Democratic ones?

It’s a dandy, for sure! A Federal Tax on everything purchased by ANY American. A Federal Tax that will grow from 23-25% to 50% within a decade…at least. Yes, American’s will love it, especially after Obama and the Democrats run some 90-second videos propagandizing for the nanny state in support of the VAT.

Why are you giving the Government all of your rights, even with a huge history of what BIG Governments do with that power?

Perhaps Republicans are living up to their base’s expectations better than Democrats are living up to theirs? I might just be speaking from personal prejudice here, but that works for me as a potential explanation.

As explained in the EPA press release announcing the contest, the purpose of the videos will be to remind the public that federal regulation touches “almost every aspect” of their lives and to promote how important those regulations are.

Ha – just read this off of the EPA Press Release

Who’s writing these? Make good humor anyway.

Just to follow up – note the last line of that graphic, the Kennedy/Johnson years. That was the last time a Democratic Administration stood for real progressive values on domestic policy. It’s also the last time there was widespread trust in government.

Obama doesn’t seem to be acting all that much like a small d democratic these days. He’s talks like one, but his actions are anything but like one. It seems the Corporatist tag fits him well enough and it’s toxic enough to also effect the philosophical divide you pt. to.

We didnt hear a peep from them when Bush was running roughshod over the constitution or drowning us in debt. That is why all this teaparty movement noise is pure bullshit. The republicans dont like America unless they are in charge.

You accuse me of “spinning” — then you dodge the point of my post. Solid.

Yeah, but it’s before the Warren Commission and Goldwater and Civil Rights and Vietnam. As I wrote above, I think Eisenhower/Nixon probably had similar numbers.

Might have. I’d be more inclined to make conclusions based on the Nixon Administration years, which were in many ways progressive on the domestic front, if it weren’t for the fact that the numbers don’t add up. I also don’t think that peoples’ attitudes would have stayed so bad if what government did since had been good for them.

Anyway, it’s an alternative explanation with as much time correlation, and at least some justification. The implications, though, are rather different.

Reid will be gone come November, so this won’t be a problem for long.

I don’t see how this is news. Democrats are generally only unhappy with government when GOP is in charge.

With the exception of people on this blog. They seem to have more principles than the average person and express unease with Democrats also.

In fairness, a lot of the GOP didn’t think much of the government during Bush’s term. And, didn’t like the spending of the GOP controlled Congress either.