And then it happens all over again.
It’s very good to see new attention being paid to civilian casualties as the horrific murders of three Afghan women, two pregnant, comes to light – and the new Wikileaks videos are documenting incidents that passed virtually unnoticed at the time. But these incidents are not unique, not surprising, not news to the people of the countries we occupy. And neither are the “regrets” and promises of more careful behavior to come.
They have seen it all before:
Take the murders of 90 Afghan civilians in one airstrike – in September 2008. While local villagers reported the killings, the US military told the western press that only insurgents were killed – and assured everyone that they were certain of these “facts” because a journalist had been on the scene. It was only later, and not in the US press that we learned that that journalist was none other than Oliver North – and it was only after video taken by a doctor on the scene and a UN investigation that the US military admitted responsibility.
Or look at the 2005 Haditha massacre in Iraq: “A Naval Criminal Investigative Service report found that the Marines then killed five unarmed civilians whom they ordered out of a car — one Marine alleged that another got down on one knee and shot them one by one — before storming several houses and killing women and children, some of them still in their pajamas and lying in bed…
A report by Maj. Gen. Eldon A. Bargewell on Haditha, leaked to the Washington Post noted:
“All levels of command tended to view civilian casualties, even in significant numbers, as routine and as the natural and intended result of insurgent tactics … Statements made by the chain of command during interviews for this investigation, taken as a whole, suggest that Iraqi civilian lives are not as important as U.S. lives, their deaths are just the cost of doing business, and that the Marines need to get ‘the job done’ no matter what it takes.”
And the Post’s Josh White reported that Bargewell’s analysis shows that the chain of command consistently misrepresented or refused to investigate the massacre:
Then, no one asked any further questions, Bargewell wrote, despite gruesome photographs circulating among junior Marines that showed that women and children had been killed in their beds.
The attitudes towards civilians which lead to such easy killing have been well known to our military leaders. In 2007, the Pentagon studied the mental health of US troops in Iraq and found:
• Only 47 percent of the soldiers and 38 percent of Marines said noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect.
• About a third of troops said they had insulted or cursed at civilians in their presence.
• About 10 percent of soldiers and Marines reported mistreating civilians or damaging property when it was not necessary. Mistreatment includes hitting or kicking a civilian.
This report led Gen. James T. Conway, the Marine Corps commandant to say:
“I was a little bit disturbed by what I saw because, one, Marines were more likely to do those things than were soldiers,” he said. “I want to get after that because, again, those things are things that either incite the population or, conversely, help to win the fight if you do them right.” and then said that an Army commander in Afghanistan was wrong when he issued a public apology for an incident in March where Marines “killed and wounded innocent Afghan people.”
19 Afghans were killed and 50 injured in the incident the commandant referenced.
Then there’s this, from 10/19/2008:
On 1PM on Thursday General David McKiernan’s senior staff officers “were briefing reporters and Western aid groups in Kabul on the new measures McKiernan had ordered for the purpose of “protecting the civilian population” during combat operations.”
At the same time, a NATO air strike was killing “25 to 30 civilians” in the village of Nad Ali in the south of Afghanistan.
Local officials and residents of Nad Ali said Thursday that a bomb had hit three houses in a village in the Loy Bagh District where seven families were seeking refuge from fighting elsewhere. Mahboob Khan, the district chief, said in a telephone interview that 18 bodies had been retrieved, and that as many as 12 other bodies remained in the rubble.
Followed by this in November 2008:
People near Kandahar in Afghanistan were also celebrating last week, celebrating a wedding – and once again, US air strikes brought death and despair rather than joy to these innocents. 37 died, 35 more were wounded. Nine “insurgents” were also killed…
The U.S. military said Thursday that civilians attempted to leave during the battle in Shah Wali Kott, “but the insurgents forced them to remain as they continued to fire on the ANSF (Afghan National Security Forces) and Coalition forces along the highway.”
The Kandahar attack was followed on Thursday by another:
The latest incident happened Thursday morning in northwestern Afghanistan and left up to 30 civilians dead, according to officials in Badghis province.
There is one hopeful sign however:
“I’ve given direct guidance, and so has my boss to me, that if there’s any doubt at all that the enemy is firing from a house or building where there might be women and children, that we’ll just back off,” Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Schloesser, the commanding general of the 101st Airborne Division, told CNN’s Barbara Starr.
“That potentially is something that we did not do before, but now because of this increased emphasis, we are doing,” he said…
Yet, a month later:
They came in the night and shot Saeed Alam in his bed. His three-year-old son was crying at his feet and his mother had leapt on top of him to try to block the bullets. Both of them were hurled out of the way and an American soldier opened fire…
Saeed Alam was shot four times in the chest in the raid last Saturday. His son landed in a fire pit, used for cooking. His mother died of shock the next day. The American soldiers left, taking 10 other Afghans with them. “We are not Taliban. We do not support al-Qa’ida but if these searches continue we will definitely join the anti-government elements,” said Mr. Janan, a senior member of the Gardeserai shura, or council…
“What laws allow them to kill him without an investigation?” Mr. Janan said. “There are no courts, there is no justice. We are Muslims. Maybe they are from another religion but there are international laws and customs. Who will tell me that killing this person was legal?”
Three recent U.S. Special Forces operations killed 50 people—the vast majority civilians…
Afghan officials say an overnight raid Jan. 7 in the village of Masmoot in Laghman killed 19 civilians. A raid in Kapisa on Jan. 19 killed 15 people, mostly civilians. And a second Laghman raid Jan. 23, in Guloch village, killed 16, they say.
In addition to the 50 listed above, three more civilians were killed by US forces Saturday, including two children in Helmand and a tribal elder in Paktia.
After each such incident, American military officials promise that more care will be taken—yet we still read accounts like these from Laghman:
An angry Afghan man with a thick black beard ranted wildly at the U.S. officials, shouting about how their overnight raid had killed 16 civilians in his village. An Afghan elder cried out in grief that his son and four grandsons were among the dead.
“One young boy said his whole family was killed, and now he wants to become a suicide bomber. This is a very negative message,” Mashal said. ”
These deaths occurred during nighttime raids by US Special Forces.
So many of these raids are tied to US Special Forces. Take the example of one SOF unit — the Fox Company of the Marine Special Operations Forces — “who have been responsible for all three of the largest civilian casualty events, two of which occurred after MSOC was removed from Afghanistan for acting like cowboys the first time around [but] the DOD is not worried: (h/t Cernig for link via email)”
The spokesman for US forces in Afghanistan, Colonel Greg Julian, denied reports that commanders had lost confidence in Marsoc and insisted the group was operating under the same rules as everyone else.
“They have the same rules of engagement that everyone has and there’s a tactical directive for all international forces,” he said. “Marsoc was involved in these incidents, but it’s not all the same guys. They get the lessons learned passed on from all of the rotations and experiences. Yet they are human.”
As Jerome Starkey reported a year ago about the same unit:
Troops from the US Marine Corps’ recently formed Special Operations Command, or Marsoc, were responsible for calling in air strikes in Bala Baluk, in Farah, last week which officials say left up to 147 people dead. The Red Cross confirmed that women and children – more than 90 – according to Afghan investigators, were among those killed.
In August last year a 20-man Marsoc unit, fighting alongside about 20 Afghan commandos, directed fire from unmanned drones, attack helicopters and a cannon-armed Spectre C-130 gunship into compounds in Azizabad, in Shindand district in Herat, leaving more than 90 dead – many of them children.
And in March 2007 a Marsoc convoy fired on civilians near Jalalabad, in eastern Afghanistan, as they sped away from a suicide bomb attack close to the Pakistan border. Eyewitnesses said the marines fired indiscriminately at pedestrians and civilian cars, killing at least 19 people and injuring more than 50.
Their tour was cut short and they were flown out of Afghanistan on 3 April, but they were later spared criminal charges by marine General Samuel Helland, after a three-week “court of inquiry” in the United States.
It is worth remembering that Stanley McChrystal was commander of JSOC at the time of their 2007 removal.
This is just a sampling. These are the big events with many civilians killed but there are untold numbers of little events. Back in 2007, the ACLU released details they uncovered using FOIA of incidents in which civilians were killed by US forces. These accounts represented only those civilians killed in “non-combat” situations. And these are only the ones for which the military accepted some level of responsibility – or rather agreed to pay a condolence fee without accepting responsibility. At the time the New York Times reported that “the military has paid more than $32 million to Iraqi and Afghan civilians for noncombat-related killings, injuries and property damage, an Army spokeswoman said. That figure does not include condolence payments made at a unit commander’s discretion.” And given that the average payment for a dead adult civilian was $3,000, you begin to get some sense of the scale of devastation we have brought to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.
It is good that we are taking notice – and that once again an attempted cover-up of a horrific crime has been revealed. Someday we may also face up to what these incidents say about our military and their “leadership,” and someday we may actually demand a stop to these war crimes.




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The news about NATO admitting a role in the deaths of two pregnant woman in a botched Special Operations raid February 12, has led me to ask for assistance for these poor women’s children and families!
As a current pregnant woman, the admission of this travesty has brought many emotions, anger… confusion… etc. but what I want to DO most of all is to try and get as many pregnant mothers, expecting couples, ANYBODY together to collect sympathy cards for these poor children and families!
Please, especially Americans, let’s show these victims and their families that we are NOT like the perpetrators of these crimes, but that we have compassion and do CARE for their loved ones at this dark time!
Please contact me at: ShowThemWeCare@gmail.com if you would like to help or contribute!
Our armed forces are becoming more and more like the old German army, which always justified its atrocities on the grounds that they were necessary to secure the safety of the troops.
IMO this is nothing new, and our armed forces are behaving as most armed forces do in war time. It’s my opinion, but I really don’t see anything different here than any of our more recent conflicts, overt or covert.
This is what happens in armed conflicts, which is why I’m a pacifist.
I think a lot of people (not pointing at anyone in particular) get confused because of concepts like “the good war,” such as WWII, where the US perceives itself as such a hero and savior (go talk to Australians and Europeans of a certain age, and you might discover that not everyone views the US role in WWII with such rose colored glasses).
I abhor and decry all of these atrocities and all of the deaths and maimings that occur during a military occupation, but to me, this just is what is so.
The question is: how do we stop it now?
I crossposted THIS earlier today at EW,on the thread about the Wikileaks video:
Just out of curiousity, I was researching how many Reuters reporters had been killed since the Iraq War began.
I have yet to establish a figure, but I DID run across an interesting piece about a Reuters reporter who had been involved with the expose of the Haditha incident,one year prior to this July,’07 tape.
Pretty intriguing-and don’t be put off by the title of the link site,btw.
Haditha Reporter Was Jailed By US – Twice | Sweetness & LightJun 1, 2006 … As many as seven journalists for international media groups were held by … So after his first arrest, and after five months in prison at the …. Reuters journalist al-Mashhadani was arrested by U.S. troops on August …
sweetness-light.com/…/reporter-jailed-by-us-broke-haditha-has-familiar-name – Cached
I guess I’m old. I remember when presidents would fire generals for failure in leadership and also for lying. I guess that was before teflon was invented and McChrystal got his coating though.
And coincidentally enough, on a somewhat related note about journalists and whistleblowing,forthwith:
Israeli Journalist Held Under Secret House ArrestApr 6, 2010 … New York – Ma’an – An Israeli journalist has been held secretly under house arrest for months, sources confirmed this week, amid allegations …
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18508 – 13 hours ago
at-Largely: Israeli journalist under secret house arrest for …Apr 6, 2010 … An Israeli journalist has been under secret house arrest since December on charges that she leaked highly sensitive, classified military …
http://www.atlargely.com/…/israeli-journalist-under-secret-house-arrest-for-exposing-israeli-assassinations-.html – 3 hours ago
Ok, I’ll bite. What did the US do to the Australians during WWII (since I don’t leave anywhere near any of them to ask)?
Aloha, Siun…!
Today’s WaPoo had this report…
but are we becoming in-sensitized to it (civilian killings)?
We are not only de-sensitized but we both rarely see it – and have forgotten that there are rules and laws that apply. The Geneva accords require protection of civilians in war zones. But, like our apparent comfort with torture, we have also forgotten those requirements.
The responsibility lies both the the military and political leadership – but also with those soldiers who act dishonorably.
Just heard some idiot ex-general war mouthpiece (gen. Kemme?) on CNN say it was the victim’s fault for getting shot. Glad that is cleared up.
I am from Europe and let me assure you that the US is not looked upon favourably for their actions before, during and after the second WW. And post the war we were all dead scared of the US using nuclear weapons….we did not fear the Soviet Union nearly as much. Nope, America sucks still to the “real” world.
I’d say (as I’ve written before) this is the sort of awakening that occurs at mid-life (for both individuals and collectives), where one starts to be forced to accept one’s mortality.
That means accepting not only that one doesn’t live forever, but most generally that one isn’t God – not infinitely powerful, not infinitely good, not…perfect.
The degree to which one sees in the world the balancing impotence, evil, and fallibility is a combination of the degree of one’s imagination of power, good, and perfection (how high Icarus has flown, the degree to which one confuses oneself with God) and the strength of one’s denial to seeing it. The system wants to come into balance, so it will simply generate enough energy on one side to balance the energy on the other, and to overcome any resistance to it.
Think of the movie “The Miracle Worker,” and Anne Sullivan trying to get through to the young blind and deaf Helen Keller. If Anne’s going to get through to Helen, she has to bring enough energy of awakening to penetrate Helen’s darkness, and to overcome Helen’s violent resistance.
But the goal wasn’t to simply abuse Helen (though Helen felt it that way), or to denigrate her for her limitations, it was to uplift and enlighten her.
The same is true in all lives, and in the lives of countries as well. Thus the overwhelming, undeniable flood of evidence that we’re not Jesus, or Superman, or Icarus, but merely humans doing the things humans do – both horrifying and wonderful.
The sooner we accept these horrors (not in the “mistakes were made, we must look forward not backward” sense – that’s sociopathic denial – but in feeling the effect of our actions on other people, real empathy) the sooner they’ll stop and we can begin to live lives not as superhumanly good, or unspeakably evil, but, with luck and grace, empathetic and enlightened humans.
If Obama fired McChrystal or Gates, the R Party would raise hell and call him an America-hating weakling (see nuke story below). Obama really cares what the R Party says about him. That’s why we elected him because we also are very concerned about what the R Party (which suffered a crippling and embarrassing defeat in 2008) says. We love Republicans, Bipartisanship and Fascism (which Obama has continued. Obama, the Blue Dogs, The New Democrats, The DCCC and to a lesser extent the Progressive Caucus in fact has rescusitated the formerly defeated Frankenstein’s Monster that is the Republican Party).
Helluva job, Obama.
I just saw that … amazing how easily we excuse the atrocities. At least during Vietnam, there was a sense of shame for My Lai even if the punishments were negligible.
Yeah sure, but Europeans still want to wear Levi’s (which are made in Saipan.) Nevermind. /s
When I was putting this post together last night, I spent a long time looking at the photo from my post at the time of the killing of the Reuters photogs – http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/15/this-is-the-face-of-iraq/
Today, reading on various lists, the easy excuses of “fog of war” etc, my only reply has been to look at that photo.
The only way any attention will be brought to these atrocities is to rename civilians “fetuses”.
The warmonger stooge on Ratigan (Greenwald was the lone sane one), said that the Troops needed to secure the area for the residents (by killing journalists and other residents, apparently).
The stooge also said that something good may develop for Iraq in ten years. Isn’t that the same thing Dubya said five years ago?
Also, said the Dubya stooge, History will be our judge.
Siun, Amnesty International just released some pics of our handiwork in Yemen…
A poignant caption under one of the pics…
A destroyed house with graffiti reading: “This is the help Yemen gets from America”.
Evidently ,the military confiscated the Reuters employees cameras after the incident.
According to the articles here ,produced contemporaneously with the 2007 event,by the National Professional Photographers Association website, the films verified that there were no threats from those on the ground.These are very informative pieces.
Reuters Says Killed Photographer’s Cameras Returned; Seeks Full …Jul 17, 2007 … Reuters Says Killed Photographer’s Cameras Returned; … Witnesses interviewed by Iraqi police and by Reuters say they saw no gunmen in the …
http://www.nppa.org › News & Events › News – Cached
Reuters Photographer, Driver, Killed In IraqJul 12, 2007 … Reuters is reporting that Noor-Eldeen called a coworker to say he was … Another witness returned Noor-Eldeen’s press credentials to … it does or does not have the photographer’s camera equipment, … Reuters said the photographer was single, but that Chmagh was married and had four children. …
http://www.nppa.org › News & Events › News – Cached – Similar
Reuters seeks U.S. probe into killing of Iraqi staff | ReutersJul 16, 2007 … Photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and driver Saeed Chmagh, 40, … On Sunday, the U.S. military returned to Reuters two digital cameras that … Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were among three Reuters employees killed in Baghdad in the past week. …
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1617459520070716 – Cached
They took the smart cards out for the sake of National Security, no doubt.
Or, Fetuses,Inc.
Thanks CT … very helpful link.
In flipping channels today while waiting for the Champions League game I heard more excuses for this despicable. violent murderous act. Pretty damn sickening until you realize that America can never, ever do evil things. No torture, no murder, no illegal “wars” no propping up vicious dictators…nope america is wonderful, the beacon of hope for the world, the epitome of a functioning democracy where all citizens are treated equally and workers live and work in paradise.
Also, another link with additional info:
Israeli journalist Anat Kam under secret house arrest since …Apr 2, 2010 … Woman faces treason trial after allegedly leaking documents that suggest military breached court order on West Bank assassinations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/…/israeli-journalist-anat-kam-house-arrest – Cached
A bit like Animal Farm and 1984.
I think there was a vet on standby in Animal Farm. So the animals lived better than we do./s
Yep – the rush to explain and excuse is in full swing. I was listening to the BBC this morning and they at least had a rather broad panel to discuss it … though there were still a lot of voices spouting the “fog of war” line.
And so the killing goes on excused from the top lending legitimacy to murder.
Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were among three Reuters employees killed in Baghdad in the past week.
Gunmen shot dead an Iraqi who worked as a translator for Reuters last Wednesday. His family have asked that the name of their son, 30, not be mentioned.
Two other Iraqi journalists working for Reuters have been killed by American soldiers since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. Two foreigners, a Palestinian and a Ukrainian, have also been killed by American troops.
The U.S. military has said its soldiers acted lawfully in those cases.
Iraq is the world’s most dangerous country to report.
The Committee to Protect Journalists in New York has estimated that at least 149 reporters and media assistants have been killed since 2003. The vast majority have been Iraqis.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1617459520070716 – Cached(7/16/07)
The second shooting, of the van with the kids in it, was entirely inexcusable…! Along with the refusal to treat the kids in a nearby mash unit is unforgivable…! 8-(
I’d be willing to bet that more than 95% of the people our military, CIA, and mercenaries like Blackwater have killed since 9/11 are not terrorists. They are innocent civilians, journalists, or people who just want to kick us out of their country.
It’s a good question, but I didn’t mean, in the case of Aus, what the US did TO the Aus citizens, necessarily. In their case (and anyone from Aus should speak up and resoundingly correct me, but I lived there in the late 1970s and heard PLENTY of gumpf about WWII, as well as Viet Nam), I think there was a lot of anger at our isolationist stance for many years of the war, for not getting involved sooner, and then parading around like heros at the end. In no way do I take away from the courage and heroism of individual US soldiers during WWII; as with anyone in the armed forces, they were courageous and heros in their own right.
I am speaking more about the US as a nation and our overall attitudes and what we did and when we chose to do it. Many Australians are very grateful to General MacArthur with how he overcame the Japanese in the Phillipines and New Guinea. However, the Japanese had already attacked Australia (bombing Darwin) and interned many Aus citizens in terrible camps in the Malay peninsula and Singapore. The Japanese vowed to take Australia, and many Aussies feel that we Yanks waited too long to get involved. Esp. bc Aus soldiers were mostly all stationed over in Europe and Africa fighting those battles.
So, there is some enmity downunder about all that. Someone else provided an answer for how Europeans felt about us. I lived in Europe briefly in the late 1960s, and then again in the late 1970s, plus lived downunder for quite a while in the 70s and 80s. So I am only speaking from personal discussions held with Europeans and Australians, and I have no links to give.
There is an Australian play that I’ve seen called “Na Names, No Pack Drill” which touches somewhat tangentially on these issues:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts-reviews/no-names–no-pack-drill/2006/08/11/1154803061103.html
Yes, well exactly. And it’s called collateral damage, and it’s why I was against even sending troops to Afghanistan after 9/11. This is what happens; it is inevitable. I decry it, but this blood is definitely on our hands. Now what?
See also, the movie and tv show called “MASH.” Been going on for a long, long time, but when we dfh protested Viet Nam, well, y’all know the outcome of that.
bleh
I think there are two separate issues in play. One is that war is horrid and awful things inevitably happen. But the second is that we have chosen to re-engineer our military training to downplay Geneva, etc and hype the kill rate. And all reports are that troops sent into Iraq and Afghanistan with a leadership who never require accountability for actions outside ROE and the laws of war. Even in the most horrific instances, we have not seen heads roll and in the few cases where the public pressure was just too high to ignore, we simply prosecute “a few bad apples” and never touch the chain of command.
I have opposed all of our wars, invasions, incursions, and efforts through proxies to destabilize foreign governments since Korea and probably would have opposed it too except I was too young to even know about it.
I despise the leaders of our government and military industrial complex. I’d like to see all of them, including Obama, spend the rest of their lives in prison.
Siun, you are one of the bravest posters here. thanks for all your great reporting.
I agree that ROE and laws of war have been downplayed for sure. In addition, our civilian leadership has also behaved with a huge disregard for law.
Couple that with the videogame desensitizing of human loss and suddenly life is very very cheap indeed. I constantly have to point out the humanity of the people who are killed or “detained” for the rah-rahs to kind of “get it”. It’s disgusting that all this is just so much primness to them when America’s national security is at stake!!
Well Karzai better watch out before someone sneaks a bomb up next to his building.
For more on this episode see this (3 page pdf):
http://www.au.af.mil/info-ops/iosphere/09spring/iosphere_spring09_zollinger.pdf
The title of which is: “Calculated Information Operations at the
Tactical Level” by Major John J. Zollinger
Additional information and links are found in my comment here:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/39162#comment-169965
The Seminal diary was:
“McChrystal’s Employment of Military Deception”
By: Jim White Monday April 5, 2010
Which is found here:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/39162
Yes, there is no such thing as a “good war”. Young men are turned into killers and they never really recover. WWII did nothing good for my father. Yes, this poor boy from Dearborn was an officer at the age of 21 and commanding a ship at 23. So he had a nifty uniform, but, come on! having a kid commanding at 23?? Um, that’s nuts. And yes, it made him nuts. Our next door neighbor came home and hit his kids. We turn our kids into killers. It’s just wrong and a waste.
Bertolt Brecht did one of the best plays on war “Mother Courage and her Children”. Imagine a 100 years war. Well, it finally hit me that capitalism keeps us at war…endless war… And there is no way I want to defend capitalism anymore. It ain’t freedom. It’s slavery. I’m done with it.
The photo is what drew me in and made me pay attention. During Vietnam the MSM showed the little girl running naked burning with Napalm. This helped change our ideas of war. Keep at this. Demand that we see these images.
Thanks for the PDF – it’s one of the things I’ve covered that has haunted me so I really appreciate the added info.
It’s when we see the faces – and recognize our own sons and daughters that we start to understand.
Thanks but no bravery in posting. Bravery is what the Iraqis who tried to save the wounded in the video did, what so many Iraqis and Afghans do to not only survive but keep caring for their neighbors in the midst of the chaos we sow.
I intend no disrespect. I have traveled internationally extensively, never received that impression. I also descend from German and English, relatives still live there, odd they never mentioned it. Have several very close friends in Germany, France and Swiss. Odd they never mentioned it either.
In fact, those of the war generation in France and Germany that I’ve had the chance to spend more than just cursory conversation with have stated practically the opposite.
Maybe we travel in different circles.
Thanks, Siun. The leaked video/audio are getting heavy coverage here in Canada. Just caught Glenzilla on the CBC News channel talking about NYT holding the wiretapping leak for a year vs. Wikileaks as a whistleblower outlet.
Here’s where I am at on this. I am sick to death of all the mealy mouthed excuses and rationalizations. Like … oh, it’s so sad that we have “fallen heroes” and “collateral civilian deaths.” It’s pretty goddammed simple actually. IF you are a leader and you initiate or perpetuate war, you are *actively* deciding that young men and women as well as innocent children, women, and men WILL BE KILLED. It’s a fact of war. The only fact. Leaders and pro-war supporters dodge their responsibility by being so very sorry (if that). It’s disgusting.
It’s a lot like abstinence being the only real protection against pregnancy and STDs.
Ordering the war is the SAME AS ordering the deaths. It’s intellectually dishonest and evil to pretend anything else. But they do it every day and I am sick to death of it.
Oh, and as long as this continues, well, I guess life doesn’t mean much either. Sacrifice, my ass. It’s all such nonsense.
Truly, I mean no disrespect to those who choose the life of a soldier for their own honourable reasons. But if you carry a gun, well, you will be using it, of course.
General Dwight Eisenhower, 1954
Thanks, I was totally unaware – and we had Ausies attached to our units in the early 70′s. Never heard a word.
Yeah, we were isolationist. But not without good reason imo. We intervened in WWI and what did the Europeans do with resulting peace? They put on their greed and retribution caps and went to Versailles to hammer out some of the most dispicable treaties the world has ever seen. They were more akin to future war plans than they were to peace treaties.
I’d accept critisism for things like Dresden and Hiroshima and our bankers bankrolling of Hitler but not really for WWII in general. WWI… we should have just stayed at home.
As for the Europeans, meh, sadly they are just as barbaric as we are. Possibly even more barbaric, if one compares the situation in Africa to that in South America.