I loved yoga; we did hatha yoga, and our teacher explained, theoretically, what organs were affected by the various poses. It was mellow, fun and meaningful, unlike other yoga classes I took decades later where there seemed to be a level of competition with regards to both dress and the ability to do a wheel pose. I felt kinda empty after those.
Yoga has been in the United States since the late 1800s, and really took off in the mid-1920s. A ban on Indian immigration from 1924 to 1965 kept traditional practitioners out of the U.S.; but in spite of the ban, yoga became an underground staple with celebrities and alternative types.
Then came the Sixties and all that came with that decade of seeking. The Beatles and the Maharishi, altered states of consciousness, health food, and the lift on the immigration ban. Yoga expanded slowly at first, but by the mid-90s, yoga studios were cropping up everywhere, yogaini were appearing on morning news shows and gyms were expanding their classes to schedules to include power yoga with its interminable aerobic “Astanga! Down dog!” Baby yoga! Doggie and me yoga! Yoga pants, yoga mats, yoga magazines, yoga work out videos…and inevitably yoga lawsuits.
In Yoga, Inc., director John Philp takes us through the development and marketing of yoga in the United States including the idea of yoga competitions — which have been around for century, just not with the hopes of a sponsorship by Mercedes Benz, as one promoter wishes for out loud.
Behind the competitions is super yogi Bikram Choudhury, founder of the hot — literally and figuratively — Bik who has copyrighted his own style of yoga and order of poses (asanas), and sued those who dare to use either his name or the poses in the the same order he does. In some cities, chain yoga studios are putting the individually owned studios out of business, and the spiritual practice of yoga seems to have been replaced by a material striving and the desire to have a hard body. Yoga, Inc. asks the question, “Can yoga survive with its good karma intact?” That remains to be seen, as it’s an $18 billion dollar a year business…
(Watch - Yoga, Inc.)



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Before we start, just a couple quick notes: Please refresh your browser ever minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers. To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always after a comment or question hit “send comment.”
Please stay on topic–in this case Yoga Inc America culture/materialism, massmarketing..John’s other movie on Rudy G…
If you want to jump in about health care or anything else not about these topics please find a post elsewhere on FDL to do so. Thank you.
Please–and I can’t believe I still have to say this, but–no ad hominen remarks. And please be respectful of our guests and of each other. And yeah, I tpye badly…
Hi john!
Welcome to Firedoglake!
let the bad typing begin
Thanks so much for making this and joining us–how did you get interested in the marketing of yoga?
i was in a yoga class (bikram) and the teacher told me to ‘work on this pose, it’s in the championship’, and when i heard yoga and championship together i knew i was on to something. so i started researching, one thing led to another, and off we went!
Do you do yoga yourself?
i did, at the time i started researching. not so much any more. that’s for a combination of reasons — less time, more kids, and als a little sick of wokring out next to Type A supermodels and stockbrokers
Thanks for arranging this, Lisa !
John, welcome to FDL. We have a lot of yoga aficionados here. I for one am glad that you made this movie. Was it as much fun to make as it is to watch ?
well, ‘fun’… mostly. it’s always a little bit of a torment, making a low-budget film. you have to work crazy hours, ask lots of favors, etc. but i was really into the subject matter and the people, so it certainly wasn’t like having to do real work.
I concur wiht the latter statement. I foudn I was feeling competitive in classes which to me in contrary to why I was there.
can i just say how impressed i am at my own typing so far?
What stimulated you to make this? And bte, I LOVED the 120s to 1960s history part. A friends mom ran a the only yoga studio in Philadephia in the 60s and 70s–growing up in SoCal, yoga wasn;t new to me, but to hear someone’s mom wasa yoga instructor in PA! Wow!
basically in the west yoga has become a fitness regimen for body-obsessed yuppies. and that’s fine. so what? but why not call it something else? why not call it ‘yogercize’, or something else? i’m not a traditionalist, by any stretch of the imagination (pun sort of intended), but i can see why purists get all bent out of shape. (pun def. intended.) it is supposefd to be about enlightenment, after all
My typing makes everone’s look good I am beyond Lolcatz
Kudos for laying back and letting the people speak. I would have been tempted to challenge their statements more, like calling yoga ‘a religious practice’.
Thta’s why I prefer hatha to ashtanga/power yoga nd kindalini (which is super mass marketed here in LA by the 3H sikhs–Gurumuhk/Golden Bridge et al)
i wanted to make it because i thought it was a great chance to talk about capitalism in a new way, or more precisely, it was a way to explore the age-old war between spiritualism and capitalism. between the sacred and the profane, if you like
The Christian yoga really blew me away, I bet that has raised some evangelical eyebrows! How did you find those folks?
well i always say that yoga should be flexible. (these bad word plays are getting out of control, right?) the reason yoga has been so successful is because it can be anything to anybody. so if you want it to be a religious exercise, go ahead, why not. yoga can handle it. if you want it to be fitness, great, go for it. we should be confident enough in the underlying principles of yoga to let people interpret it any way they want.
Last week there some blog on Huffington Post about lusitng for an Hermes birkin bag while be a yoga instructor and if those goals were compaitble..I was um…maaaaaybe….
believe it or not there’s quite a few of those christ yoga types about. (“rather than sun salutation, we call it son salutation, as is son-of-god’) again, live and let live, i say. but that’s me personally. while there’s def. some crazy things going on, i think poeple are way too think-skinned about the whole thing
I was really glad you explained the yoga competition and it’s ancient history because ot so many peopel that seems contrary to the granola/inner peace aspects we’ve been spoon fed about yoga…
The problem really is between the two extremes. On the one hand, the so-called purists who think that enlightenment is possible after many years and many rebirths, and those who crave instant gratification.
A successful business model means that people have to see results, which motivates them to keep coming to classes, telling their friends, etc. What made matters worse was allowing Aerobic teachers to become Yoga Instructors after a quickie course/test.
Case in point: All the patients in Physiotherapists’ offices. In the 80s & 90s, they were there from injuries suffered in Aerobics classes; now they’re there for injuries suffered in yoga classes. And all it is because of poor teaching – pushing the students beyond a safe threshold.
well what does get up my nose is all the commercialism without any of the honesty. i’d prefer they call it “BlingYoga TM” and have a motto something like “you bend, we spend”. or something. be honest. it’s a business. what, you think people won’t come if they suddenly realizing you’re making money? that’s why i (grudgingly) respect Bikram in a certain way; “i’m a businessman, not a guru. if you want a guru, go somewhere else.”
Interesting; my PC just got changed out, so my sound’s not on. If this is a movie, I’ll probably see it. I have taken several classes at one of the Yoga Works studios in SoCal.
I started doing yoga on my own back in the late 1960s mainly through reading some old Lillias Yoga books and experimenting, which led to some neck problems. It’s pretty important to have a good yoga teacher, who can spot what you’re doing, and so you can be trained to do the asanas correctly.
I’ve been practicing for years, and I’ve studied under many excellent (and some not so great) teachers and masters. Yoga has been a wonderful thing for me on many levels, and now it’s reaching a peak of popularity in the States.
In the way-back times, I was made fun of by folks, who called me nutty, stupid, hippie and worse simply for practicing yoga (which I used to keep pretty quiet about). These days, many might be surprised that it once was looked down on and thought of as weird and even anti-Christian. I think my fundie family still prays for my soul.
Whatever. I was taught that yoga is NEVER about competition. In fact, yoga is about being where you are and doing what works for you and gently pushing yourself to extend further. I have some issues with the idea of yoga competitions, but if it floats someone’s boat, who am I to argue?
The only thing I have to say (after rambling on) is that I suggest caution when doing yoga in a gym, esp if you don’t have a lot of experience with it or having had some training with a good teacher. There are many good yoga teachers in gyms, but there are teachers who are only so-so. I’ve attended some classes in gyms, where the teachers only explain the asanas very briefly or hardly at all. I notice other students “flinging” themselves into the positions, and that’s where accidents and injuries can happen.
Movie looks of interest. I find Bikram’s approach to trademarking his system and stuff somewhat, ummm, outrageous, but whatever. I’m well aware of what he’s been doing. I’m not into that form of yoga practice, but some really like it.
Om shanti om.
That’s been around since at least the 80s … that’s when I met the first person that called it “White Light Meditation”. There are also many Christians who believe that Indus Valley and other ancient civilizations were started by descendants of Adam & Eve.
have to be careful about that yoga competition thing though. while i have no reason to doubt people are telling the truth, there’s no proof for any of it. the bikram people say “there have been yoga cpmpetitions for thousands/hundreds/tens of years”, and they’re really just spitting out what bikram tells them. but yeh, people have been “competing” at some level in yoga for a while now.
really, if you go into a room with other people and strip down to your undies for any reason, aren’t you asking for trouble? aren’t you asking to be judged and expecting to judge back?
just wondering…
I don;t care for Bikram for a couple reasons..classes to full, room too hot (and I know there are arguments pro and con there, I just think it’s germy and fungal breeding)an the “oh you can;t show the soles of your feet to the instructor” Like wtf, pick one–exercise or spiritual practise re: feet. Also frankly his “my sequence is copyrightable” is tragically full of hubris. I can see NOT wanting people ot call their classes Bikram, but a seies of poses..I mena really!
i like your style, onitgoes. similar attitude to mine. but the quickie teacher training can’t be good for anyone, really. you don’t get good teachers, you don’t get good classes.
With due respect, Bikram appears to have spent too much time in Shirsha Asana … I thought this copyright thing was tossed out by the Courts already.
Exactly what I referenced in my prior post. Some yoga teachers in gyms are very good, but you have to be very careful and very picky.
Plus a lot of gym rats (and I can say that bc I am one of those, too) want to take a yoga class that is aerobic. Some forms of yoga can be more aerobic, but, for ex, Ashtanga was developed by a guru some time ago to be practiced only by youthful boys (as a way of dealing with their energy), and it’s not recommended (esp if just starting out) for older adults. Yet I see a lot of older gym rat adults racing to Astanga classes. I wish them luck bc that’s the easiest way to get injured. But they sweat, so they feel happy.
well i’m no big fan of bikram either, i just like his straightforwardness. i think the term is “lovable rogue”.
but i’m glad you brought up the copyright thing, because that’s a different animal. that’s a simple case of legal principles, and he never had a very good case.
The word play is terrific, this blog lurves that kind of humor.
What’s next for you … a new project or are you going to keep promoting this current one ?
Yoga in Los Nagles makes me feel very um, inferior..even in many beginning classes there is so much status positioning, the super fancy clothes and yeah there’s a lot of body checking…
I want to do gym yoga at all…too much down dog and the flow makes no sense and wiht 50 peopel how can you get the proper adjustments. SOme of the smaller studios are excellent. havent tried yoga works…in my neighborhood there are 3 studios in walking distance and another few just 10 mins by car
it settled. essentially (don’t quote me) the studios that were calling themselves bikram said they would no longer use his name i.e. say they were bikram style, and he agreed not to sue the sh!t out of them
Depends on who the teacher is and possibly also the gym. I have had good experiences with yoga at gyms. Generally taught as a physical exercise only, leaving out the various levels and layers of spiritual “stuff.”
So gym yoga is neither all good or all bad. But that’s true even if you go to a good yoga studio. At the end of the day, you have to shop around and find both the teacher and the type of yoga practice that works for you. There’s a lot to choose from these days, which is good but can be confusing for some.
Om shanti om
It wasn’t just about the studio name though, didn’t he copyright yoga poses, including their traditional names and threaten to sue anyone who repeats those names without paying him royalties ?
i’ve finished another doc, nothing to do with yoga. in fact couldn’t be further away. it’s about the 2008 war between russia and georgia, seen through the eyes of the georgian president, mikheil saakashvili. plug it? ok, sure. clips are on my site, baddogtales.com.
also writing a TV show, which is in a little way influenced by Yoga Inc. it’s about a kid growing up in a commune in the mid-seventies, as the hippie dream is dying. based on some research i couldn’t cram into the doc or the book
My suggestion is to look around and check out the different studios and teachers. Both make a difference.
Not sure where Los Nagles is, but try your best to ignore students who are into it for body types and clothing. Even in hotsy-totsy areas, usually there are studios where the students are more serious about the practice and doing it the best way possible for themselves and not about showing off their bodies and clothing. Just takes some checking around.
Plus the teacher will make a huge difference. If you resonate with the teacher, stick it out even if you’re not that thrilled with the other students. Learn what you can.
An don;t you have a Rudy Guiliani doc as well?
I’ve been doing yoga at the YMCA; one morning before class, one of the women in the class explained to another that she was a good Christian, so she didn’t follow some of the inner directions, like opening the heart to the sky or looking at the third eye.
the old saying “buyer beware” applies here too. you have to do due diligence; research the place you’re going to, see what poeple say, examine the course description, ask questions.
I’m sure Yoga will be mass marketed and mass produced in much the way that Whole Foods packaged and marketed the hippie grocery store/coop, or that Starbucks did the same to the local coffeehouse. It will be a boon for those places that never heard of yoga, and (like Whole Foods or Starbucks) it will be seen as good by a large number of people.
There will always be a place for a non-chain yoga studio, and especially for those teachers who understand that it’s not about competition or even physicality – in much the way that there are still coops and farmers markets, even in towns that have Whole Foods.
BTW, I saw Bikram do a yoga competition in LA a couple years ago – it was unforgettable to see about one thousand yoginis on their mats in a gigantic hall, with Bikram on a large elevated platform overseeing the horde of competitors. Weird, but good.
Excellent. The TV show sounds like a surefire winner.
On a personal front, how did you find an Agent to represent you ?
wow, comments fly thick and fast! can’t keep track of what i answered and what i didn’t…
There was something like that, but I forget, too. I’m sure we could google it. That’s why I had some “issues” with him. I could be wrong, but I think he had to “back away” from some of copyright plans bc it didn’t make sense legally. Plus it made him look (temporarily) bad. I believe he might have been sued, as well, by some of those who were running studios offering Bikram yoga. it was messy for a while a few years back.
plus my daughter is falling asleep and very cutely saying “i love you daddy, i love you…”
wow, you’re good! yes, rudyland, also available on my website. that’s all about the Fall and Rise of Rudy Giuliani. new yorkers hated him for about seven and three quarter years. then on sept 11 he became their idol, their father figure, their savior.
then they went back to hating him
Yeah, they get their back up with the whole chanting “OM” thingy as well … thankfully, more people are accepting yoga/meditation for the incredible health benefits.
In LA we have “dani yoga” which is actually a cult recruiting tool.
Thank you, Lisa. As someone who studied Cecchetti ballet for years, just wanted to let you know it’s jeté (which is a jump). I agree with Onitgoes. Having a good teacher who can teach you proper placement of the body is key, whether it’s ballet or yoga. Otherwise you can develop bad habits that can create weaknesses that will eventually turn into injuries over time. I don’t that much about yoga, but I’m reminded of Anna Halperin’s definition of dance, “Breath made visible.”
Ooohh we’d love ot have you on in the near future for that one too!
you should remind here yoga came from hindu teachings
One thing that I’ve found really good with the recent explosion of interest in yoga and increased access to yoga classes, whether good or bad, is that some yoga equipment has gotten much much cheaper in price. It wasn’t all that long ago that yoga mats had to be ordered thru catalogs only and were pretty pricey. Then Whole Foods offered the mats, blocks, straps, etc, but still really pricey.
I was delighted to go into Target recently and purchase some blocks for a $1 each!! Plus mats at Target and elsewhere are something like to $12 or less. That is a plus.
The Indian Gov’t basically called him and asked if he really wanted to take this up in European Court, with million$ in Legal Bills.
Okay here’s what I have been told about TM: that you mantra is a secret, but each person born in a certain time period is given either the male or female one and because it’sa secrt (supposedly) people dont find out that others have the same word of power…
okay and what about “bouncing” or levitating?
hi alyosha. i was at that big yoga exhibit. it was nutty. not much yoga to be seen though.
there’s already a “starbucks of yoga”. that’s what poeple call yoga works. based in L.A., has 18 studios across america. same style of class, same looking studios, etc. some people love it. some people see it as the death of yoga.
awesome!
The opposite … Hindu religious practice came out of Yoga.
i always spell “people” the wrong way. poeple.
found an agent the old-fashioned way; luck and a buddy who was already represented by him
My cousins lives right near the Firehall where they lost 80% of their people on 9/11. Rudy would lose if he ran for dogcatcher in NY …
At least the Xtian lady is actually doing yoga. I went for years with my family and their Xtian friends going nuts about me doing it. They were (probably still are) convinced (seriously) that I was/am worshipping the devil. Sigh. Such nonsense, but that’s what some believe.
Most of the bigger sports folks do yoga these days, including even some top pro bass fisherman from Alabama. As my sweetie says: if some AL fisherman promotes that he’s doing yoga to keep himself in shape for his sport, then you really know that yoga has gone mainstream. ha!
Yep, nothing like inhaling Petroleum fumes from a commercial Mat, to improve your health …
Oh yeah: that’s right. Now I remember. Yeah, it was pretty dumb bc Bikram thought he could get away with copyrighting all those asanas that have been around for years, including not letting anyone use their proper sanskrit names except for those who paid the fee.
I don’t mind if Bikram wants to do his business thing; it’s not for me. But the copyright thing really was overboard.
I’m looking for an Agent for my first self development book … perhaps I can get a reference ?
maybe. maybe. but, as with yoga competitions, and with all things yoga, in fact, there’s really no evidence. a few stone busts supposedly of people sitting in meditation postures. a few scraggly documents, then patanjali, then nothing, a few hundred years, then another screed, etc. it really is a scattershot history.
but yeh, point taken.
that’s why he’d rather run for president
What’s worse was, in the way back machine, using mats that everyone else used (and sweat on) because it was nigh on impossible to get your own mat. Ugh… sweaty mats… so glad to have my own. It’s the little things in life that make it sweet (ha ha).
wow the puns are flying!
there’s many tipping points when it comes to yoga going mainstream. i’d say when yoga shows up in ads selling sonatas and vodka that, voila! we’ve hot mainstream
yes, ugh… in high school circa 1976-79 when I firts did yoga we didt have mats! just rugs
Hot Yoga – Mainstream! Now, With Vodka!
Love that!
I was so thrilled when I go my first mat and my yoga instructor ( lawyer turned yogi, cool dude my age actually who I had known for decades, he’s now a 420 lawyer and stil does yoga but doesnt own a studio anymore) told me :EAVE IT OUTSIDE IN THE SUN FOR A FEW HOURS AND RINSE IT DOWN..smelly ugh!
now they ar ebeing made out of recycled whatevers and the CLOTHIGN MOG yoga clothing
If we ever meet, I’ll show you how it’s the way I say … just using good old fashioned logic.
I have been learning and teaching for 22 years now, and am the [un]official yoga/meditation expert on FDL … FWIW. *g*
he wasn’t saying he owned the poses. what he was saying essentially was that if you put these poses in this sequence and use my teaching dialog, then you’re doing bikram yoga. same way that a composer can’t put the same notes in the same sequence as paul mccartney and get away with it.
that was his claim anyway. but the case as a while never made sense and wasn’t worth the bother and bad PR for him
ask me offline and i can probably help out…
We put the SPIRIT in SPIRITuality … Absolut ! *g*
Hi, Lisa, John, petro, etc., etc.
Interesting topic. I’ve been interested in yoga for years, but generally on too tight a budget to take a real class; tried to learn from books and videos. No more than basics, but I like it.
Signed up recently for an 8-wk class at a small studio. Sigh. Only went to the first class.
What I wanted was that personal attention and adjustment you’ve mentioned; am I doing this right? What do I need to do differently?
Nada. The instructor, a young woman, “certified” instructor, sat on a low platform at the front of the room and demonstrated while giving directions. Never got up, never went around the room, no individual attention of any kind. The class was a dozen or so people, some experienced, some brand-new to yoga.
I have back and neck issues – long-standing, I know pretty well what sorts of things not to do. Even so, my neck and shoulders were sore for a week. I found I couldn’t bring myself to go back.
Maybe all my fault, but it just didn’t feel right.
Yoga does nicely shape and tone, I have ot say…makes for a normal looking body
SO John, Esak, the kid in the Bikram competition, what has happened to him?
and is Yee still with yogini #2?
Hey thanks ! Should I ask on your blog ?
I’ve heard it both ways, but I cannot remember what my current living master has said. I know he’s taught about this. I think it’s something of a crap shoot, 50-50 kind of thing.
However, the yoga masters/gurus that I had always taught (fwiw) that yoga is system/philosophy/process/whatever that is different and separate from the Hindu religion. Many of the yoga gurus that I’ve studied with tended to incorporate Hindu, as well as Buddhist, philosophy and teachings in with the yoga practices.
However, yoga practices – the complete spectrum (of which the asanas are but one of 8 limbs) – can be followed completely on their own with no reference to any religious teaching, such as Hinduism.
Those who live in ashrams or get deeply into yoga may end up studying and/or practicing Hinduism, but it’s something they usually have to pursue on their own.
bring it on!
bummer
you should speak wiht the studio owners definitely!
Got it. thanks for the distinction.
Lisa, what’s a “420 lawyer?” (speaking as a recovering lawyer – never heard this expression)
Tejanarusa !
The reason why the instructor behaved thusly was … for Insurance. If she offers assistance, she and the studio can be sued for “injuries” and it happens more often than not. It’s really sad but true.
So, that’s really not normal/usual? I always figure it’s me, my expectations are wrong…
Rodney Yee and Colleen are still together, as far as I know.
Esak is still doing yoga and may even be coaching now, if I remember correctly. (Coashing for the competitions. Insert gag here.)
Sweet kid. Kind of doc subject your dream about; you may disagree with his position 100% but at least he’s willing to argue it happily
Sorry to hear that. A suggestion is that you ask to watch some classes first to see exactly how they do it, plus also talk to the instructor before you sign up for the class. Tell them about your back and neck issues. If they are a good instructor, they should be on the look out to assist you with how you get into the asanas, as well as giving you specific variations to accommodate for your issues.
If they’re not willing or interested or able to do that, then that place is not for you.
A good teacher doesn’t sit on a platform. A good teacher should be, firstly, providing a demo of how to do it, and then walking around the room and spotting the students.
Ouch. again, speaking as a recovereing lawyer—sigh.
The thing that really bummed me out was I don’t think I’ve ever taken any kind of exercise class where there wasn’t a little speech at the beginning about avoiding anything that hurts, or “if you have this kind of issue, don’t do xxxx.” There was nothing like that, either.
420= pot. He handles local dispensary stuff, he’s the the go-to guy for medical majyjane legal issues in Los Angeles
You have a point, but I still go to classes where the teachers provide spotting for students. I think teachers are out there who still do this.
That was pretty much what I expected. Admittedly, I took this class because it was offered through my local school district adult ed, and it was, uh, ahem, cheap.
isn’t that so dopey though? we’re so lawsuit happy that a yoga teacher can’t teacher a yoga class?
Ah – California speak! Forgot we don’t have such exotica elsewhere, huh? ; )
In Canada, DAHN Yoga is under scrutiny for cult-oriented practices. Getting these cults exposed will only help us all.
actually MI and other states have medical–I think 14 states now…
reminds me… let’s talk sex.
do you know how many teachers (male and female) live in fear of sexual harassment suits? that’s the new hting i keep hearing about
Well, adult ed classes are not necessarily all bad, either. And inexpensive can have it’s value. So just check around and ask questions, and I wish you luck. Once you get into yoga with some good instruction, then you can definitely do it on your own.
When I taught Yoga, I would begin every pose by telling students what health conditions should not do the pose, and what conditions are helped by the pose.
It’s crazy, but how do you get 20 or more people into a class and not give them proper guidance ?
Beyond my own limited experience, the title and theme of the doc resonate. I sometimes pick up Yoga Journal when they have certain articles about asanas or sequences that are good for say, stiff neck.
It’s always disappointing to see how many pages are for “yoga wear,” “equipment,” etc. And pricey stuff, too. It just doesn’t seem to fit with the way I see yoga.
And there are suddenly two or three new “Yoga something” mags on the newsstands; they seem even more trivial. Yoga, Inc., indeed.
Yup, cults must be dealth wiht..actually in Yoga In, John discusses the different guru cults, included Bagwhan Shree rashneesh, and there was a bit of Kirshna in there as well. The DAHN people are pretty old school culty from what I can tell…
as one of the interviewees says in the film, it’s a very slim minority of yoga poeple who are into the cult thing. but it does exist. and yoga is usually used as a way to get people in the door”. once inside they start softening them up and getting them to drink their particular Kool Aid
Prolly more details for LN or LLN, but if you want to shoot me an e-mail about your health issues, I can suggest some yoga postures to avoid. I can also recommend some pranayama exercises, which help the weak areas without the physical duress of yoga asanas.
I used to study with a yoga master, who became a fallen angel when the bad news came out that he was sexually philandering with some of the women students. It was huge at the time, and he lost a LOT because of it (as he should have).
That said, he was an excellent yoga guru; I learned so much from my experiences with that particular group (Kripalu Yoga) that I still donate $$ to the center.
I think it’s like everything, though: let the buyer beware, including be cautious with your spiritual teachers. At the end of the day, everyone is still human, fallible and subject to doing the wrong thing (sometimes a very, very wrong thing). But I still have good feelings for this person, despite his wrong-doings. He at least owned up to it; stopped; paid off his legal bills, himself; and tried to make amends (in a way) by doing a lot of work with prisoners.
That’s understandable actually…the fear of “bad touching”
Side note: From yoga has come one of my least favorite phrase “SIT BONES” as in butt.
And while we’re on the subject of sex–tantra…
Rajneesh was a great idea gone bad. His ashram in India has incredible meditations and the music is out of this world. A lot of work went into cleaning up the muck in that org. …
this is why you also have people asking for some regulation of the industry. this is a huge issue. yoga has no standards. zilch. zero. no code of conduct barring teacher-student interactions, no official outline about how to treat injuries, no edicts about confidentiality. the only guidelines are entirely voluntary and unenforceable.
In all my years of yoga, I’ve run into very little cult stuff. I do know some who get very involved in a yoga lifestyle and who live full-time in ashrams. Some *might* think that they are part of a cult. In the cases that I’m thinking of, though, I don’t see them as a cult.
It all depends on your definition of a cult.
and i know what poeple say; “yoga has the yamas and niyamas, it’s own moral code”. sure. but then we need some karma police to enforce them
Some good points and quite true. It’s really up to the individual to have integrity, and sadly, not everyone does.
It is somewhat difficult to imagine how to regulate it though.
The folks at Kripalu deserve a round of applause for turfing him. All too often, this criminal act gets papered over, or the student gets blamed, etc. … like what’s happened with the current Pope.
I believe that he is now teaching classes with Deepak Chopra in San Diego [Amrit Desai, not the Pope].
i personally couldn’t care less if you live on an ashram or a moonbeam. for me the new cult is commercialism; $800 yoga bags? come on!
sadly the original meaning of “cult” has been lost ot the likes of Scientology, Children of God, and the late 70s to mid 80s Krishna/Moonies etc.
As long as there is no abuse and people are free to leave, whatever works for them…
Totally, but look at the Catholic Church (sorry, don’t want to offend anyone of that faith), which allegedly has the 10 commandments, etc… and so on.
The yamas and niyamas are so valid, but if you just pay lip service to them, well…
I fainted when I saw Louis Vuitton yoga bags, like srsly wtf?
amrit also teaches in florida.
he really got raked over the coals for his transgressions. if i were him i would have just left the “celibate” part out of the admission handbook. really, has that ever worked? in this country?
context is important
Karma Police … LOL … Excellent !
Amrit was teaching at one time with Depak in San Diego. I still would go to his teachings, but I haven’t seen anything about him in San Diego lately. Deepak tends to spend more time in LA these days; he likes to hang out with the stars (no offense intended; just seems like it’s what he does; he’s a business person).
Yes, Kripalu handled it well when Amrit was busted, and Amrit got out and paid his dues. Still a fantastic teacher is all I can say, but he had to go.
LOL. Quite a mental picture.
Thanks for the note above – prolly right about LN. In fact, need to sign off right now and make an important ph. call. This has been a great thread.
Thanks Lisa and John!
I get upset about very few things, but to hear these guys go on about how women have caused the downfall of humanity, therefore celibacy is the only way to enlightenment, etc. … makes my blood boil.
Thanks tejanarusa, se eyou soon! good luck wiht the clasess!
Maybe I’m just an old grouch, but I have a problem with any kind of fundamentalism; ten commandments, yamas, Prime Directives (Star Trek, to the unititiated…)
See ya later … be sure to wear your Red Prada Shoes ! *g*
I defrocked a Tibetan monk once… I didnt know he was a monk,elseways I wouldnt have. but it was his decision… I was just a vehicle fo rhis karma LOL
The Prime Directive is a hard one, so it “and it harm none” Uh..for every action there is a direction and opposite action and reaction…
Kripalu is my favorite yoga … it really has to be seen to be understood. I saw a demo by Brahmanand, but I don’t know his new name, now that they have all dropped their Sanskrit names.
Talk about mental pictures!
Funny about women and downfall, blah blah. if not for women aged between 25 and 42 there be about six people doing yoga in america…
I could write a book about that, but I won’t go on. I never bought into the celibacy thing. There were some serious issues (looooong stories) around the celebacy thing and the ashram up in MA (which I went to a lot at one point in my life, and had fabulous experiences there).
I think it was one of those things where Amrit was trying to impose some type of control over people that he was not doing for himself, and it got really whacky for a bit. The last time I went to Shadowbrook, there was some real dissonance in one of the lectures (which I happen to have on tape somewhere). I knew there was a problem, but I’m satisfied with how it was handled.
I give Amrit some kudos (now, not then) for the fact that he has stuck around here in the USA and taken his licks. FWIW, that had to take some courage, and some of his students were really really really (justifiably) hugely angry at him. He talked to many of them after the fact and faced them rather than running away.
The celibacy thing was handled poorly, but OTOH, it IS part of ancient tradition, which IS what Amrit was teaching. It’s a teaching that he got from his Master Babuji. So the students who DID follow that should have been doing for their own reasons/edification, not just bc Amrit “said so.”
anyway, enuf of that for now. it was something at the time…
Nirvana means more when it’s shared with someone else … *g*
*never knew that yoga had so much sex and Star Trek – taking notes!*
I like bendy stretchy hatha
I believe that some, including Brahmanand, go by both their given names and their sanskrit name, although some have changed to a different sanskrit name. Kripalu yoga is an amazing practice; no doubt about it. Really one of the best, but I also like Swaroopa, which has similarities.
yeah, I’m offically a dakini LOL, me every other girl on the planet…
It’s my hope that you’re learning something Kelly…
So, quick yes/no and one line reason why/why not… Should yoga be in the Olympics?
Celibacy is a Christian/Western concept and has no root in Yoga Culture. In Yoga, the word is Brahmacharya, which simple means: Brahma – Creator. Acharya – Teacher.
Every yoga master had a wife and family and lived his teachings on a daily basis … until this idiocy about celibacy took hold.
Hey now, just you wait a minute… the PRIME DIRECTIVE!!! Well now there’s fighting words, if yer not gunna foller that! ha ha
My current spiritual teacher says: these are things that I’ve learned from my masters, and these are teachings that I believe will help you to lead a good life for yourself, for others and for society. Here is the info; it’s up to you to follow it, if you think it works.
I like his attitude. A very saintly dude, btw.
NO! Just my “humble” opinion.
Good pint. Classic example of how westerners think they’re being all Yogier-than-Yogi and missing the point entirely…
No !
I’m glad you brought up Bikram’s notion of competition … in the old days, it was an exhibition, to see how much people have been able to transcend physical and mental limitations. It did not involve Gold Medals …
That’s why I said earlier than context is important. There may have been competitions decades ago, but they didn’t happen at the Staples Center with girls in string bikinis wandering about…
Ummm, not so sure. I do think the celibacy thing started quite some time ago. I do think it works for *some* but I think the issue is when it’s put out there that *everyone* HAS to do it. That, for sure, doesn’t work.
I’m sure you’re aware that “they say” that there are aspects of enlightenment that can only be achieved by becoming celibate and using the “life force” in ways other than sex. In India, there is a tradition of the householder leaving the wife and kids to go off and be celibate and be a saddhu to achieve enlightment. That’s another kettle of fish, but one thing with that system is that the man (nearly always a guy) has had his day sexually, and then gives it up to pursue a type of enlightenment.
On some levels that makes more sense bc at least the dude wasn’t forcing himself to do something unnatural while young.
Without meaning to spit on “Yoga Gurus”, most of what I learned over the past 24 years was absolute rubbish and this trash is still taught by many yoga organizations and reputed teachers as sage yogic wisdom.
That’s what inspired me to write my first book, and I have 7 more on tap.
Okay, when you mention that … maybe not such a bad idea ! *g*
Although now I shall play Devil’s Advocate…
Why not have yoga in the Olympics? They way we practice yoga nowadays is almost purely as a physical practice. And the Olympics are merely the logical and fitting conclusion to the way we have redefined yoga. What are we afraid of? That yoga will somehow be corrupted beyond viability by this single trangression?
No.–and I’ll get to why in a minute, but didnt th Olympics used ot jsut be amateur athelets who didnt get paid etc?
Okay no: because the Russian judges always give 6. No because it’s not a “sport.” No because it would be self promotion for Bikram who seems to have the lock on the competition.
One the other hand that gymnastics wiht the twirly ribbon is REALLY dumb and yoga is more fun to watch than that.
But a perfect corpse pose is every bit as challenging internally as a pretzely pose is physically…
Well yeah, exactly. I have been to a few very small yoga demos and seen some people do asanas that blow your mind. It’s great as someone who practices yoga to see a teacher demo their “thing.” Can also be informative.
But, much as I love the Olympics… spare me the tiny tots in tights being forced into unnatural positions in the name of a gold medal. Ugh. Not at all what yoga is about. N.O.
If you ever catch a demo or Kripalu, you’ll love it. Perhaps onitgoes can advise where Kripalu classes are taught in L.A.
so John, I thik we’re gnna have you back for Rudy if you want, you ROCK! I am so glad so many people were eager to chat about this–it’s something I was into, but I wasnt sure how it would fly..thanks Pertocelli and onitgoes and tej for jumping in and really propelling things
I guess you can say that the way yoga is practiced these days is purely physical, but as opposed (it seems) to Petrocelli (no offense intended) I am still practicing in spiritual groups. So I have to admit that I am totally and completely biased.
On a practical level, it would be difficult to determine what style of yoga to have for competitions, how to judge, etc.
If it is judged like Rhythmic Gymnastics, that would be one thing.
But Yoga is about inner stability and inner bliss. How can you judge that ? And will the Bulgarian Judge cheat ?
i’ll come back any time. i’ll be sure to wear my yogatards
I don’t know what’s taught in LA bc I don’t live there. Check out YogaWorks and see.
In my experience, Kripalu is mainly taught back east. I haven’t seen it so much out here in CA.
Thank you all for being here was we wind it up and i get ready for a dinner party here at Chez Sorceress in half an hour wiht 25 people, paper plates and sterling silver flatwear because I know how to be all elegant and stuff…facepalm.jpg.
John, you are awesome as is Yoga Inc! THANK YOU!!!
as one dude says in the film, “can you reach enlightenment faster than the guy in lane three?”
Elliott gave me the heads up first thing this morning and I’ve been looking forward to this all day …
har har… I’m outta here. Thanks for the soapbox. And thanks for the enlightening conversation to everyone here tonight.
Om shanti om yoddel lay eeeee oooooh rama lama ding dong
thanks everyone!
LOL … that was a great line !
LOL indeed. I may give Yoga Works a try, I loved Yoga on Melrose, but now he’s a pot lawyer, so whatever…
Night all and thanks!!
Thanks Lisa, John, everyone else !
John, I’ll reach you via your blog, about that Agent.
Not so sure myself about the comment.
Celibacy is an important aspect in 3 out of 4 phases prescribed for an ideal life in hindu scriptures.
1. Brahmacharya: Acquisition of knowledge, student phase and Celibacy must. Next phase is Samsara.
2. Samsara: Householder life. No Celibacy requirement. Next phase vairagya.
3. Vairagya: After Householder life, Non-attachment and preparing for final phase sannyasa with gradual relinquishment of responsibilities.. Celibacy required.
4. Sannyasa: Abandonment, final phase where one leaves everything material, seeks enlightenment & peace and release from body. Obviously celibacy a must in this phase.
Some of the people in acquisition of knowledge can remain in Brahmacharya phase throughout their life. Most of the people typically do not adopt the last two phases which is a quite hard for the obvious reasons.
As John said, you are free to believe as you choose.
Much of western philosophy has corrupted ancient vedic philosophy and the two are distinct, although you will find lots of yogis today mirroring your thoughts.
Ancient Hindu epics have protagonists following the lifestyle listed in my post taken from Ancient vedic philosophy and in my opinion this has no relationship to western philosophy celibacy principle having influence over texts written thousands of years back.
Just for example if we remove those epic examples and take life of Buddha born more than 2000 years ago which is more well-known here it mirrors the above four stages almost completely. So celibacy concept is no modern western phenomenon in my opinion.
Great thread Lisa:)