Life…comes from disorder, destruction and chaos…You see Father, by creating a little destruction, I am in fact encouraging life.
Uh-huh. But in the aftermath of the passage of health care reform, Republicans are learning a downside of melodrama. They are hoist with their own violent, anti-health care petard, much like Zorg is smithereened by his own bomb. Keith Olbermann warned them about this several years ago, employing that wonderful French pun of a word.
The Republican leadership aggressively encouraged violent, hateful rhetoric from their flying monkeys. Casting health care reform as the coming of the communist apocalypse, they are now struggling with the growing perception that the bill just makes it possible for our hardworking next-door neighbor to see a doctor.
The Right’s eliminationist actions are disturbing, of course. When they knife gas lines, spit on congressmen, or threaten supporters of reform, the radical rightists, like all bullies, betray their own deep feelings of inadequacy. The obsequious loser Greg Marmalard in Animal House comes to mind (Babs to Marmalard on Lover’s Lane: Greg, honey, is it supposed to be this soft?).
The Republican leadership deserves the ridicule as well as condemnation for feeding the fires of racism and hate. The mockery works because they are inadequate to their own impossible authoritarian desires. There’s no ideological integrity to their public attacks on health care reform. Mandates were a Republican idea way back in 1993, much to Mitt Romney’s current embarrassment.
But behind their attacks there is an ideology of control and authority. Health care reform is liberating. Fewer people will be locked into dead-end jobs. Young people will find it easier to get a head start on their dreams. A robust public option would have been far superior, but it’s still the case that we have taken some small steps toward liberating Americans from the deprivations of the insurance industry.
It’s our freedom the Right is most afraid of. They hide behind the rhetoric of liberty, but authority is their god. They truly believe they are God’s Elect and that they are supposed to enjoy unrestrained control. This explains, in part, their move to replace Thomas Jefferson with John Calvin in social studies textbooks. Calvin’s Doctrine of the Elect guides their political thinking.
How, you ask, can the right-wing zealots be compared to both Zorg and Marmalard? Isn’t it the case that Zorg relies upon chaos and destruction where Marmalard stood, so to speak, for order?
There is a difference between the mad and the madcap. In Animal House, the Delta House free spirits created chaos in the name of freedom. The brand of destruction favored by Marmalard and Dean Wormer came in the form of expulsion and the military draft. Otter, Boon and the boys didn’t invade the homecoming parade so they could take charge. But that’s exactly why the Zorg Republicans tried to rain on the health care reform parade.
It didn’t work. It’s their parade that’s collapsed in chaos, and it is an entertaining spectacle. The Authoritarian Party, like Zorg, is undone by the chaos it unleashed on the country. Even Shakespeare couldn’t resist the gibe, giving Hamlet the words:
For ’tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard; and ‘t shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon: O, ’tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet.



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Well, Zorg had it wrong, and so do the repubs. Order arises from chaos by moving a system far from equilibrium, not mixing it up. And there is no certainty.
Love Luc Besson’s work, and The Fifth Element is one of my favorite movies.
I always think of Michael Ledeen’s “universal fascism” as the philosophical model for Zorg — but that’s essentially the Shock Doctrine of “creative destruction,” the core of disaster capitalism.
The ranting, foaming-at-the-mouth eliminationist talk is merely a subset of that model; it’s the leading edge, the envelope pushed outward, making normative creative destruction.
Right on target, as usual, Glenn. Do you think the Republican leadership will be willing or able to draw the wingnuts back from the brink of real violence – maybe they don’t even want to.
You’re right. And in any case, their cynical presumptuousness is staggering — and definitely deserves the mockery.
Thanks for the reference to the Shock Doctrine. Most relevant. I’m not familiar with Ledeen, but checking out your link now…
When No! Nothing! is all you have, and No! fails you have Nothing!
And Nothing Right is all the Rs have Left.
I don’t think the GOP leadership cares. In the warped view of the extremists, a little social chaos can only help them. They will, however, try to duck responsibility. And that’s what’s behind some of their recent, weak comments opposing violence etc. But we just had Palin and McCain tell us that the violence isn’t violence, you know, rifle sights in direct mail is just a metaphor…..
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Glenn W. Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“But behind their attacks there is an ideology of control and authority.”
Right to the heart again, Brother Smith. And camouflaged beneath a rhetoric overstuffed with “liberty” and “freedom”, is an ideology that arose out of the need to rationalize chattle slavery inside a governing contsitutional structure. This ideology synthesizes a concept of individual liberty with fielty to a dizzyingly vertical social heirarchy that results in an aweful monstrosity that has appolgized for or rationalized out of existence some of the most horrible social crimes in the history of man.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS STRUGGLE HAS BEEN GOIN ON FOR A LONG TIME!!
Y’all should check out the polls a little more often.
they betray their teeny weenies.
hey pups. i been gone awhile. still doin good with my givin’ up cussin’ for lent. was really hard during the last few days of that health care reform stuff. one more week. on Easter Sunday I can unleash a barage of pent up 4 letter words
How right you are:
Authoritarian freedom means obedience and discipline. I’m gonna elaborate on this in the future, but one place it’s easy to see is in differing conceptions of the Fall. Authoritarians see a Paradise in which obedience to God is foremost. Progressive humanists think we fell into Paradise, and it’s paradise because we are free to make our own choices. Lakoff traced these trajectories in our language — the strict authoritarian on one side, the nurturant, free and responsible on the other.
Great post, Mr. Smith.
Hey Wingnut Republicans: Control and Authority This!
Thanks Glenn!! Love your Sunday posts… Never did find last Sundays post…
Oh well at least health care passed no matter how fucked up it is it is law now and the pukes should just pack up and go home for all the good they do for the country. Then they can explain to their constituents why they should be allowed to represent them if they can’t do anything but be the party of Dr. NO!!
The Beckmeister was here in The City Beautiful yesterday.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-glenn-beck-american-revival-20100327,0,2682478.story
Congratulations. The temptation to cuss NCAA basketball referees is just too great. I would never have fulfilled such a Lenten pledge….
How ya doin’, Flamethrower? You are tenacious and committed.
Nahant, last Sunday’s post got bumped by the pressing news of the day. Sorry about that. You can find it at my site though.
I Think It’s Going to Rain Today
Thanks again for the kind words, Nahant.
One Cool Cat!
And, a fine one it was. Kinda disappointed me that you got bumped for that. Like, there’s a lack of the latest updates. /s But, that’s cool. But, I thought you did another fine job, Glenn.
i wish i had fulfilled the diet part of my pledge and berated a few refs and Repub whackos
Thanks, demi. I was happy enough to get out of the way of passing hcr, and, in any case, just proud to get to write here and engage with you fine and thoughtful people.
Ledeen forged the Niger Documents which led to exposing Valerie Plame. Ledeen was also a major accomplice, conspirator in illegal weapons dealing during Iran-Contra.
I’m just glad hcr is over with, ya know? I’m so tired of it. But those OFA people better just leave me alone.
On a personal note, and not to blog whore, I think you will find my diary today interesting. No, really. :) I mean it. It’s about good things, socially.
I meant on a personal note to YOU!
Moving and heartening, demi. Here’s the link to demi’s diary for others:
Food Sunday: Food For Thought/ My Son Wants to Educate Our President.
Smart cat!!
He just lurves those wingNuts…
Very thoughtful and kind of you to mention it and I so appreciate your lifting up peoples diaries like you did a couple of weekends ago.
What demi said Glenn!!
Waving to demi ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Hi ya, nahant! Hope you and yours are all well and happy.
Okay, how did you get those wonderful musical notes to appear?
Oh here we go again. “Behold the evil Republicans!” Buying in to the same old left-right, good-evil, Democrat-Republican paradigms.
The R’s are easy to stigmatize, demonize, and hopefully, marginalize. They are all crazier than shithouse rats and who doesn’t know that by now?
No, by far the more insidious evil, the true Trojan Horse, the clear and present danger is the Democrats. The corporatist-Democrat Bund is now not only strong, but nimble. Witness how agilely they outflanked every maneuver we threw at them on HCR. The true FDL Progressive left had better quit wasting its time and energy dancing around the carcass of the Republican party and focus on where the real fascism is in play.
We be doing great today…And you?
After reading your diary a question are you a teacher??
Nope. Just a mom. Ha! Just.
And, my runaway bunny boy, the 22 year old is again the Prodigal Son. So great to see him sleeping on the couch. Gosh, I love my kids.
alt 14 on your num pad… just put a couple of characters in then highlight hit alt 14 and magically you get ♫ ♫ ♫
For a complete list go here
disclaimer: do remember the MODS are not always happy with us using Alt Codes…
Rats. My unmusical macbook is sans number pad….
Oh, Glenn. You win some. You lose some. But, yet, aren’t we all so blessed? I just love this place. Give or take….I am human, still.
that would be a mac thing, right?
I know demi… Being Dad is almost as much work… I was a single Dad of 5 for 5 years before meeting my sweetie and her son!! They are all growed up now with just the youngest home after college… Damn this economy…(:>((
nope PC but I would think that MAC should be able to enter Alt Codes but being a PC person I wouldn’t know for sure… Ask Newt he is the MAC guru!!
You lurking out there Newt??
And along comes Malloy, jumping into the same cesspool from the other end. Mike, it’s NOT HELPING!
But, we have love and music, and gorsh darnit. That’s a lot.
That IS the most important thing in life demi, the love you have for all your family. As I always said of a new baby in the family ” Another one to Love”
But now I have eight grand kids??? How did that happen??? And they are not all married yet…
Music!! Yes we have Music here in fact Ms nahant is performing as we speak at church… Got to hear her all weekend as she rehearsed for her parts.. sheer pleasure to hear her sing…
I was reminded the other day (by Princeton philosopher Mark Johnston, in his book “Surviving Death”) of something nihilists, cynics and pessimists often forget: just consider the evidence for human goodness and love made obvious by the overwhelming nurturance present in the raising of children! It’s right before our eyes.
They couldn’t have picked a better grandpa. Swear! I’ll tell you a cute story. I was at my aunt’s funeral service on Thursday, and one of her great grand sons, whose parents are not married, but they lived with grandma and who is three years old and deaf from birth was one of the pall bearers. Little tiny hands dwarfed by big white gloves holding the bottom side of the casket as he walked along with the adults. Just said so much about love and life enduring and the continual path we are on.
(Not going to get tears. Oops. I lied.)
(((Glenn)))
Oh, boy! Tell it, brother. Over and over again.
One of the best lessons in life is to be part of saying good-bye to a loved one. My family always made sure we went to all the services for all of our departed loved ones.. In fact they used to hold the Wake in the home and the Priests/brothers and Nuns would come to say a service right in the front room… taught a very important lesson in my life and how I view family. Family first and if we all did that there would be a lot more love ♥♥♥ in this world.
Glenn you are so right, I can’t understand those who choose to ignore such vivid proof of the inherent good of mankind… Well at least most of mankind…
Aunt Ginny was an Irish Catholic and yes, my husband and both my sons went to the Rosary and the Service. Guess what, we can all now say the Hail Mary. Ha! We’re sometimes Methodists, but I like to church hopping to see other stuff. We had a kick ass party at her house after the graveside. Packed House. Such a great tribute to her. And a very diverse crowd. (From FBI looking guy to the totally tatted other.) Another tribute to my family and a great lesson for my sons. (Big Sigh)
It’s about people “knowing their place” in society so long as right wingers are the ones who decide who the knowers should be.
Which “right” are you talking about Glenn? The NEW improved right, The Dems? Or the batshit crazy Republican Replacement Party?
We need to stop using this right/left ideal. There is no left in the political landscape right now. Assuming there is, and letting the current “right” off the hook for anything by falsely calling them left, plays right into their little games. The left is dead right now.
You have a point about the right-left stuff. That’s lazy of me. In this instance I am referring specifically to authoritarians who believe the advancement of their power justifies all means.
While it’s convenient shorthand to speak of right and left, it rather misses a far broader and deeper cultural contest among authoritarian true believers, progressive humanists, and folks who have a little of both. Lakoff calls the latter “bi-conceptuals.”
I don’t agree with you, however, about the dead left. It is certainly the case that the political left, across the world, has had difficulty getting its bearings (post-WW II) and finding authentic political representation. However, the values behind progressive humanism — I’ve called it prairie humanism — grow stronger and stronger in the political sphere.
We should be cautious about measuring progress by some un-achievable absolute end or victory. While disappointed somewhat in the limited reforms on health care, those that are there are meaningful, and they do represent care of and responsibility for others.
New Improved Rightist Dems (NIRD) vs. Replacement Republican Insanity Party (RRIP). Hmm, I think I’ll go third party.
Great post — as usual Glenn…
We share an interest in authoritarianism. Have you seen Hetherington & Weiler’s new work entitled Authoritarianism & Polarization in American Politics? Its an interesting new work… kinda “deep weedsy” in the style of actual social science research — y’know… footnotes, charts, graphs, bibliographic references and other such factual bulk which seems only to appeal to those of us inhabiting the “reality-based community” — but I’m persuaded from your writing that you’re somewhat partial to factual bulk & empirical reality :-)
Authoritarianism and Polarization in American Politics [Cambridge University Press; 2009]
PJ, I have read that book. It’s an important one, and I hope visitors here see your link. Among many interesting things to note is the fact that it’s authoritarianism that’s behind the much-bemoaned polarization. It’s not a failure of “bipartisanship,” it’s the presence of the power-driven who are unsatisfied by everything short of absolute power.
There’s a serious question about whether authoritarian thinking is even legitimate within a democracy, which is premised upon the distribution of power to all. It’s always puzzling to me that more people don’t want to pick up on the evidence — Judge Richard Posner’s overt anti-democratic theorizing, for instance — and join the real issue. Authoritarian means and ends simply have no legitimate standing within a democracy.
Glenn, your MacBook has a numlock key, correct?
Thinking out loud,
Though I certainly abhor authoritarianism I really wonder if it is that or necessarily any model of government that deserves blame or credit for where this country finds itself culturally. Governments until recently have been as far as I know mostly authoritarian, some benign, some especially malignant but it has been possible for rich cultures to flourish grow and collapse.
In my almost eighty years it has seemed to me almost like a viral madness has taken over some half of the people, to the point now that I and many of my close associates cannot find respectful conversation with some of our once closest family an friends. There has always been politics and religion etc to argue over but I have never seen this degree of intolerance of any divergence of opinion. They permit not a single ray of light to self-examine. They only hate and seek demons. They are terribly unhappy and unreachable.
Every day I have different ways of describing it and different speculations. But I really remain mystified and a little frightened.
The only response that seems to make sense to me and those of my friends who think like me is to turn to art and a determination to preserve small or large enclaves where the joy of living is celebrated.
If I do, I can’t find it.
It’s like a malevolent fugue state, isn’t it?
It is very hard to see into, the kind of absolutism and hate you speak of. I used to cover prisons for a big newspaper, and I was always struck by how impossible I found it to get a clear picture of truly bad criminals. Try as I might, I could not understand them. Not all authoritarian-minded folk are criminals, of course, but communicating with that basic worldview in any meaningful way is damned difficult if it is possible at all.
Yes, they do believe in the concept of “God,” but, as a individual of a super-human but fallible race of beings not unlike that of the ancient, melodramatic Greek pantheon. They claim they believe in one “God” and appear to have take one of these to which they apply the label. I would say they have chosen Ares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares) given the attributes. So, by observing their behavior, they are better described as pagan devotees of Ares as they believe in might-makes-right and eating their own. Compassion (empathy devoid of pity as pity makes the other a lesser, not an equal) is no where to be found in their basic view of their relationship to each other and the world. They are the ultimate narcissists teaching god-worship of those who have, through treachery and deception, fought their way to the king-of-the-hill position and who then become priest-generals among the lesser mortals. The lesser mortals must submit to the authority of the priest/generals without question as there is no critical thought, only indoctrination (see the documentary, “Jesus Camp”; http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com) which beings immediately at birth (hence the interest in the unborn, babies and children to the exclusion to the rest of humans to be protected or cared for). I have actually met survivors of these programs housed within the right wing “Catholic,” Evangelical, and Mormon institutions and which have been going on for a long time to the point of institutionalization within the family unit. Incest, rape and torture (can involve drugging for compliance or to render vulnerable) are common tools for cultivating and enforcing submission and compliance along with a code of silence and a system of co-opted enforcers. The psychological frame begins with the core self-destructive premise of dualistic thinking (e.g., black/white, good/bad, right/wrong, included/excluded, superior/inferior) which gives way to a basic intellectual dishonesty as there is no room for “I don’t know” which would beg exploration within and without oneself for truths or answers and give an opening to the development of critical thinking. Next, there must be the establishment of a human-centric cosmology and very truncated approach to “theory of mind” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind which is considered to solely attributed to humans (scientific evidence shows this is not true as animals exhibit theory of mind [e.g., "Animal Minds" at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text and "Meet Koko: Introduction" at http://www.koko.org/friends/index.html ]). Next, there must be a self-destructive conflation of people with the concept of being essentially, permanently “bad” (or “evil”) and “damaged goods.” So, humans are in a permanent down position. Next there is a human caste system into which one is fitted (see the multi-part article, “A Lesser Species” which beings here at http://agonist.org/adrena/20081203/thoughts_on_human_heterosexuality_part_1 then augment with “Bacha Bazi – Boy Play in Afghanistan, and Elsewhere” at http://agonist.org/numerian/20100319/bacha_bazi_boy_play_in_afghanistan_and_elsewhere . Also see “Las Castas” as a template at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta). After those two ideas are accomplished through violence toward the individual as necessary, then an anti-thought/anti-intellectual attitude and unreasoning blind faith are compulsory. Meanwhile a system of tithing, pardons and indulgences allows individuals to bargain or improve their position within the caste system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pardoner%27s_Tale). Logical discontinuities and magical thinking is bound to be common place and encouraged so as to keep as many adherents unmoored and, hence, easy to control and skim (e.g. documentary “The Eyes of Tammy Faye” which touches on the rise of “The 700 Club”).
Actually I did a year of forensic psychiatry and I can understand sociopathic killers better than some of my friends and family. The latter were not always that way. It is like a fugue. They are simply not themselves as I once knew them. As I say I daily have different explanations but perhaps pure terror may be the best. But then maybe it is shame from losing control.
Frank Rich today may approach some of the causes.
I think a lot of the religious stuff is simply domination/submission. The archaic , orthodox religious notions taught by Dobson, Rushdoony etc that freedom is total submission.
Perhaps that is the terror driving some of them. “The lightening of his terrible swift sword.” But then not all these folks are that religious.
My main observation however is that I don’t believe there have always been millions of people in this country with such perverted knowledge and belief systems.
I would say one would have to be very integrated, mentally clear, emotionally disciplined, an optimist at heart, and very, very healed to do forensic psychiatry for much time at all. I had a very bright acquaintance once describe to me what it was like to work as a psychiatric nurse in one of the worst institutions in the country. Another professional I spoke with years ago in passing used to certify the mentally insane with respect to the federal system of courts (yea, I would described that person’s mind like a steel trap). I would also say that one has to be very careful to maintain their moorings. That’s why such professionals have a monitor unless that check has now been dispensed with as to get as low as this nation has gone, all the corners have to be cut.
And it was during the time we were looking for the Atlanta child killer. I was terrified we would have him and send him back out on the streets undetected. I was a lot younger then which helped. The trick is to keep a bright line between empathy and sympathy. One does have to be able to empathize in order to understand.
Psychiatry was under great stress when I quit. I really have not kept up for some years but I suspect it is much worse now and may not survive other than as a prescription writing resource. I give the American Psychiatric Association. for their stance opposing any collaboration with torture, enabling legal executions etc. — unlike the Am Psychological Assoc
Just a comment in passing. I think it is a mistake to think that bullies are fundamentally motivated by their own inadequacy. Was a neo-Freudian formulation dependent on the defense mechanism of reaction-formation. Not much data to support that. Bullies are bullies because they can, and it gets them something they want.
Wow and thank you for the clarification. When you speak of the psychiatrists being reduced to the status of formularies, I’d say the doctors are too. For those who want to heal (I’m also remembering the book, “I Never Promised You A Rose Garden”), pills might be a temporary aid but in the long run could get in the way. It’s case by case, dependent upon the individual and is a long-term commitment. On the Federal employment side, I understand that the way the culture of silence is constructed these days is an impediment to constructive change as it just protects abusers who infiltrated the system (e.g., no protections for whistleblowers).
Oh, yea, no disagreement there.
I think this is a very, very important concept, talkingstick. Research on empathy has come a long way since the word first appeared in the 19th century. We now know we come wired with an “override” that inhibits empathic identification with abusers, for instance. Fears of such a loss of self led many progressive thinkers in the 20th Century — Edith Stein, for instance — to rule out a role for empathy in morality and politics. Earlier, of course, Kant had rejected sympathy because of it’s irrationality. Anyway, I mention it because some attention to how to “keep a bright line” is needed.
I’m afraid I took a cheap, if, I hope, humorous shot. I was interested in making the point, however, that authoritarians are necessarily inadequate to their unquenchable thirst for power, just because the thirst is unquenchable.
Well, then check out this interview of a torture survivor (33 year of it): “Annie and Palden Gyatso” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWRdfriizYE). OMG– look at this man’s amazing comportment. He appears quite sane. I wasn’t sure that was possible after such experiences he describes.
I had a feeling that you may well have read the book… but as you picked up on, perhaps there are others who wouldn’t necessarily know of it but may benefit from having observed our discussion.
No. No they don’t. But what has been described as a basic psychological orientation in a certain subset of the population seems to make it a largely ineradicable feature (read: bug) which democracy must then both confront and successfully manage.
One key may be to actively prevent authoritarian leader-types from illegitimately manipulating the public threat environment. How that could possibly be accomplished without Congress legislating comprehensive media reform is beyond me, though.
Power-driven because they feel fearful and threatened unless they are in absolute control… never mind whether they’re actually competent to govern or not.
But the problem of a polarization structured by authoritarianism is that there is no possibility of middle ground… and no possibility of even finding common ground with those who strongly prefer ‘scorched earth’ — as a badge of ‘honor’ — to negotiation and compromise. Bipartisanship is impossible where one side views conciliation as contemptible weakness which will surely yield further in the face of obstreperous intractability.
No… these authoritarian-types are the dimwitted and spoiled children acting badly, and until — and unless — some adults take over on the Republican side then we need to simply marginalize them and keep them that way until adult supervision arrives.
I would echo the bright line, having done many forensic evaluations myself. What I would add, as I did on another thread, is the goal of a forensic evaluation is understanding and explaining, not justifying. Too many prosecutors miss that nuance; just because a behavior can be made understandable is not tantamount to defending it and justifying it.
It is a serious mistake to see them as dim-witted. Yes, they are either/or folks, no middle ground, but unintelligent? I don’t think so.
Well… your caution is well-taken. But such either/or, black/white thinking does strike me when I encounter it as a particular form of ‘dimwitted’ (there are probably better terms available)… which doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be considered smart enough to be dangerous. Quite the contrary… they may be just smart enough to follow such black/white thinking into making rash judgments and disastrous decisions, for all-too-often the crucial, pertinent information lies in one of the grey areas of nuance. I seem to recall Bush saying “I don’t do nuance,” and being one of the dimmest of dimbulbs ever to reside in the White House… and also be one the most sadistic, deadly and dangerous.
I agree.
Well. You have to be pretty certain you are and where you leave off and the outside world begins.
Now that we have all these psychologically learned and sophisticated folks here mostly agreeing — What the hell is it with the RWNs? And what do we do about it? :-)
Hanna’s analyst Frieda Fromm Reichman is one of my heroes and mentors. With all the downsizing and throwing out books I have not yet been able to part with her Principles of Psychotherapy
Dangerous, yes. But as a matter of fact, and there is a very large body of research on this, starting with Adorno, whether you call it authoritarianism or conservatism, and as personality traits they are essentially the same, these are uncorrelated with intelligence. It is the rigid personality structure that allows them to ignore the nuances; they may know well the rules of logic, but those rules don’t apply to them; working in conjunction with magical thinking, they are able to twist the facts into their preconceptions. That is why they don’t much trust science, because science, done properly, has no ideology.
That’a a lot of description and applying terms but I don’t get much understanding of the dynamics, much less how to address it. Not that I have any special wisdom or answers but I seem to get a bit of a handle by looking at them from a developmental and anthropological perspective. ie they function at a very primitive level.
Offered for your consideration and reflection… not as any sort refutation:
They go on to discuss preference differences between authoritarians and non-authoritarians for simple as opposed to complex problems, noting that the population as a whole is “almost evenly split, with 52 percent choosing simple problems and 48 percent choosing complex ones.
They continue:
From there, they discuss a few other points of the ‘cognitive power’ constellation which all do suggest a strong correlation… so I’m hardly “coloring outside the lines” (a somewhat funny reference, in a discussion of authoritarianism… but I’ll leave it there anyway).
I would only add that Adorno published his The Authoritarian Personality in 1950, and has not been viewed with much favor since the 1960′s. As Bob Altemeyer pointed out (among others), the Freudian approach (relating childhood experiences to later manifestations of authoritarianism) is inherently nonfalsifiable. There are methodological criticisms as well.
To sum: there is renewed interest in the study of authoritarianism… and much new ground is being broken. I’m not as certain (as you appear to be) that the “large body of research” is telling us everything that there is to know, or that we need to know. Some of it is clearly wrong, and was set aside decades ago. Then the subject went dormant (in academic political science) until recently. I’d say “stay tuned,” for we’re still in the middle of the ride, as it were.
Very interesting. Thanks.
I haven’t read the book or any of the other descriptive material you reference.
But as I noted, this is all descriptive with no real information on how you believe these traits arise, interact with other emotional complexes, including those created in the process of experience. And I don’t see much of what we need to know.
I am very open to diverse perspectives but I don’t see much different in this from more traditional sources.
I do not believe this complex is necessarily inherent. As I said I have observed with some alarm it taking hold in people who have been much more emotionally and intellectually flexible into maturity. Others have are making similar observations.
Gotta say I hope readers continued through the thread to your very valuable, open-ended discussion. Let’s return to this subject when we can. Thanks, PJ, aardvark, talkingstick and everyone else.
I’d throw in one more caution: I think the self, even the authoritarian self, is a loose, narratively driven, protean thing. I myself cross the line too often and essentialize, even, god help me, infra-humanize, these folks. I can excuse it as a function of writing simply and quickly, but….
My point is, the people I’m speaking of seem to be stuck in an authoritarian narrative that guides their choices and behaviors, but there is not a little green Hitler sitting inside their brains, a deterministically certain and essential little evil fella bound to remain there hell or high water.
Thanks Glenn. I need the exercise.
Coming from my perspective I would say they are locked in by a powerful set of emotions. But I am perplexed by the uniformity of their traits as well as the rigidity. I do think the lack of empathic connection with other life may offer some clues to cause and fix.
Or we can just decide to go along with Melanie Klein and say half the world are paranoids and the other half depressives.
Good night
TS… the subject matter is complex (but interesting, and from my view imperative to understand… which I’m still working on), and we do seem to be holding the discussion ‘several layers into the onion,’ as it were. You might get started with Robert Altmeyer’s work entitled The Authoritarians… he answers most of the questions that you ask, and he provides his book online for free.
And now back to bed…
Cheers!
Yes… let us do that.