I’m pretty sure bad things will still happen. But my mom is losing her insurance, is too young for medicare, and has a pre-existing condition. Call me selfish, but I’m pretty happy that she’s got some options now.

Someday, we’ll have the same standard of healthcare that every other industrialized country in the world has. Not yet. But I plan to keep working to make it happen. I’ll be interested to see who else is willing to work towards that goal.

I can’t tell the difference between Obama and Romney on policy anymore. They might as well be the same person.

I just checked and my grandma is still here.

It’s a piss poor excuse of a bill considering what could have been done. Will it whet appetites for more if this bill works anywhere close to the “make the cripples get up and walk” prophecies of Peolsi?

Is the Grayson bill for real?

So now the Insurance Corporations will be on wellfair.Insurance coders in controle of your health.I had Health Insurance with Blue Cross and Prudential.I did not get the Health Care for Rheumatoid Arthritist,Polyneuropathy,Vocal Cord Paralysis untill I went to Veterans Health Care.Obama and the Democrats are saying it’s a bad bill.

Two cheers for Romney Care. Or one and a half cheers. Or something.

As the bill comes closer to passage, I’m looking forward to more reasoned debate from our friends on the other side of the aisle.

Medicare buy-in on any serious scale requires subsidies. With Obamacare, those subsidies are being shifted even more to private insurers. Grayson is just politicking imo. Won’t happen. Not before 2020 at least, when the excise tax kicks in in earnest.

Mandates for expensive junk insurance. Mitt knows all about that. Didn’t he used to consult for Prudential.

I, for one, would like to welcome our insurance-company masters.

Phone Calls to Wall Street:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOZTldbo2Fw

It’s not a great day for the millions of us that will remain uninsured for the next four years. By that time this piece of shit will be an even bigger piece of shit. More than likely many of us will die uninsured.

I am not in the habit of offering unsolicited advice, but anyone out there in their fifties and earlier sixties, please consult a lawyer or financial planner you can trust to see what you can do to protect your home and/or any assets from catastrophic medical bills. And to the younger folks, be careful about retirement accounts that are off limits to you before 591/2.

Grason was one of the first democrats wanting the passage of this bad bill.He did not stand up for the Public Option and now he talking about Medicare buy in.Where was Grason’s loud mouth last year.Please

Your attitude is really fucking shitty.

How about you say it’s a good day for the working class? Because, lest you forget, this bill is for them. Everybody here with their college degrees and pale skin… it must be nice to be able to afford to be so demanding. Unfortunately, poor people have been suffering for years. Many have been dying. So while you hop in your minivan and slide that door shut, your child’s happy, smiling pale face and rosy cheeks in the rear-view mirror, try not to forget that you’re privileged. You have been all along.

And try to read a fucking book. Break out of that bubble you’ve been in all your life. Pretend your father beat you, that you have black skin, that you have psychological problems. Here, I’ll start you out: http://3.ly/DU9q

And how will this bill exactly help poor and working class people. Please articulate.

Now that Oh Bummah! has condemned thousand and thousands of women to coat hanger abortions I hope he and his right wing misogynist cronies are happy.

Good morning, pups. It’s Monday so it’s The Pasty Little Putz and Krugman. The Pasty Little Putz says it’s now “Show Time for Health Care.” He says that in time, the health care bill will shed light on all of those promises that piled up as the vote drew near. It couldn’t be more special — he links to someone whose analysis he says proves that health care reform won’t save thousands of lives a year. The link brings you to — wait for it — Megan McArdle. I’m not making this up, you know. If anything she’s an even greater waste of oxygen than he is. Prof. Krugman, in “Fear Strikes Out,” says in the debate leading up to the victory for health care reform, President Obama urged lawmakers to do what is right, while opponents relied on fear and cynicism.

Here they are.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven. Judging from what I read here I’m now going to just go and sit in a corner and wait to die now that this catastrophe has befallen us. Have as good a day as you can.

A bill for the working class my ass. Get it right, we could have nonprofit insurance or for profit insurance. This bill guarantees profits on death and disease for the owner class. The working class may get some relief later, if the owners decide to pay a living wage.

I await the total destruction of America from catering to the bloodsucker 1% that owns the country..

I await the total destruction of America

How long do you anticipate it will take?

President Obama urged lawmakers to do what is right, while opponents relied on fear and cynicism.

And how does the Kool Aid taste Paul? Oh Bummah! used a bludgeon, cut sweetheart deals with InsurPharma, sold off women as chattels and increased jobs in the coat hanger industry. Doing what’s right my ass.

It has already happened

Are you kidding? Because you can’t be serious. Here are plenty of reasons why this is good for the working class: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319

Wish Paul Krugman would stick to economics. When he writes this mushy stuff about politics, honestly, it’s hard to follow what he’s saying.

Well it can’t come soon enough as far as I am concerned. I don’t think I can take another election where “progressives” vote for more LOTE corporatists.

Everybody assumes we’re not going any farther; that this is the endgame for reform. It’s not. We’ll go farther. All the way to single-payer, in fact. This is just a start. It’s all that we could get out of this Senate and this House. This will heal the working class. I mean that literally. Fascists know that keeping the working class sick and in debt is key to keeping us down. If we’re healthy and strong, both physically and mentally, we’ll be able to fight back; both in the workplace and in the streets. So this is the start of something new.

We have to elect more ballsy politicians. And we will. The change will be tangible. You’ll see. Just look or it on the faces of all the people in the service industry you encounter. Trust me, you’ll see a difference.

This is a spoof right? Satire is dead my friend. Kos Kids all over America are using those very words. Those same clueless words.

Workers will still be reliant on their beneficent employer unless they want to pay a “fine”. Women, also workers by the way, have now got “special penalties” by executive order. There are NO restrictions on Insurance premium increases. ….ah shit I could go on but what is the worth.

Nice to see wealthism and healthism is alive and well. I’ll go back to where to poor people are now. Sorry for intruding.

Now whats this crap about NO PUBLIC OPTION? This HCR bill has a public option. We (THE PUBLIC), have a forced individual mandate to buy their insurance, or be fined by the IRS if we don’t…. THERES YOUR P.O.! What? You say this is not the p.o. you were looking for. YOU DON’T SAY???

Good for you but I know I’ll be dead before single payer or the wars end. Keep up your hope though.

Where are they? I mean, where do the poor people meet? When you find it let me know. No job here. No health insurance. No nothin.

Careful what you assume and who you bark at lest you get bit.

Yes, the ban on exclusion of children with pre-existing conditions and the $250 annual filling for the donut hole in Medicare Part D is real. Most else in the near term is spin, and most everything midterm will subsidize and bulk up private insurers while burdening the working class with expensive junk insurance mandates. Hopefully by the time the hefty excise tax kicks in ten years from now, private insurers and employer plans will have restructured themselves enough to allow an evolution to a system that benefits people first…or not. Until then, I’d take care with those mainstream newsmedia press releases regurgitating WH talking points. I mean, did you believe everything Obama promised during the campaign too.

Good morning all.

Trust me, you’ll see a difference.

Somehow, that sounds familiar. Don’t ride that pony too hard, you’ll give it a heart attack.

There are 50 million hungry in the country today. What have you or our President done to help them lately. Has it occured to you that you help increase the pain by being so accomodating to this administration’s policies.

When someone in the House yelled ‘baby killer’, they might as well been referring to themselves and the entire GOP.

Yes, this bill is less than stellar, but it would be nice if there were grown ups on the right side of the aisle.

This is essentially a Republican bill passed by Democrats. If you can tell the difference between the two parties in Congress, good for you. Who really speaks for liberals or REAL progressives in either house these days. Just one or two names even.

You know, that’s funny because I’m an anarcho-syndicalist. I don’t even want the government to exist. Or capitalism. But, see, the difference between me and you is that I’m smack dab in the middle of the working class. I haven’t removed myself from it. I understand the working class. I understand their needs, their desires. I know what would benefit their lives. And I know what needs to happen for the working class to rise up. I’m trying to make that happen.

The petit bourgeois (that’s you!) actually have no right to oppose this bill. You know why? Because by opposing it because it’s not enough is like whites opposing the abolition of the poll tax because it’s not enough. Ultimately, it’s a wealthist and healthist position to take. It all goes back to privilege. You aren’t the victims of discrimination. Are you fighting for yourselves or people less privileged than you? If the answer is the latter, and it should be, why don’t you figure out what they want? The oppressed are the correct. Not the privileged.

I’m sure that O would be happy to feed the hungry if there were ‘private’ corps that would profit from being on the govt dole in the process.

Gee, it must be nice to know so much about other people.

Private insurance is not the enemy. The system is the enemy. This bill will change the system. The system now bends toward total access and decreased costs.

Wise people work to improve the system. Others will try to destroy or talk about how bad he system is. The condemners, either from left or right, are not part of the solution.

You sound like John Galt. Please check in with Ron Paul. Yes I’m a traditional liberal who stands with people with any disadvantage. If you believe this administration stands with you, I would urge you to take a closer look.

Yeah, looks like ol’ Bart Stupidass doesn’t have a friend in the world. He’s managed to piss off pretty much everyone. I love it.

This bill ensures that the system will remain entrenched in the private industry.

Um, the system that you call the enemy IS private insurance. You need to put on your thinking cap before typing a comment.

It’s a conservative victory. But all the conservatives are now in the Democratic party. Our friends on the other side of the aisle are bourbon and branch water reactionaries.

If there were any real consevatives on the other side of the aisle it probably would have been worse.

219 for all Dems, 50+1 all Dems
1 GOP in all the votes on health care; committee, legislation (3)in house and Senate

That is a real difference. The GOP knows it. Listen too what they say about it, not what you say.

Just because it is private does not mean its bad.

I know that. I am responding to views by some on this site that private insurance is by definition a bad thing. I do not believe it is necessarily so.

The only adults I heard from last night were here.

Well, some evidence and links would be a start.

Can not wait to see what insurance cos do with deductibles and co-pays.
It is still going to be a strain on the poor to get medical care.
BUT AT LEAST ITS DONE!!!!

Thats a load of crap. The working class is not correct. Individuals are correct as demonstrated by their choices.

He deserves every problem he is going to face

Oh, so you believe this is a good bill because all the Republicans voted against it. I see. You don’t see kabuki in any of this…that the Republicans might just like the idea of propping up the private insurance industry. Doesn’t matter that the Senate bill was initially drafted based on a Republican blueprint. Or that the final bill bears a striking resemblance to Romney-care in MA which is drowning the working class and poor as we speak. You probably will also believe the Republicans aren’t really behind the banks when the Dems try to push through their wimpy version of the financial reform bill. You need to wake up.

I had my fill of dingbattery yesterday.

I do wish all those Oh Bummah! doters would go back under their rocks and play with themselves leaving the rest rest of us privileged, wealthy bourgeoisie to rejoice in the selling of women and the increase in our InsurPharma stocks.

If the public option had passed you still would be forced to buy insurance.

Let sleeping dogs lie I say.

But without the cost of vast profits, high salaries and obscene bonuses thrown in.

You’ve got a long way to go. You’re not on my level. I’m not a liberal. I’m an anarchist, but that doesn’t mean I’m a capitalist. ‘Liberal’ has capitalist connotations which, I think, apply to you. If you knew anything about actual anarchism (but you’ll never learn, because it scares your privileged middle class mind) you would learn that it’s fiercely anti-capitalist. And you have all these preconceived notions like the idea that we’re annihilistic and don’t support a vast social safety net. We do. We think corporatism and capitalism amount to wage slavery and taxes are fundamentally more just than wage labor. We elect our politicians. No one elects our corporate masters. We support using democracy in every substantial human community. We are the people in Michael Moore’s film occupying houses and factories. So don’t tell me I “sound like John Galt”. I can’t imagine a bigger insult.

I’ve got to tell you guys that your puritanical idealism is really cute in 16-year-olds, but is a little wearing in adults. If you thought that you would get the bill that we on the left wanted, un-watered down, uncontaminated, you’re nuts.

If you want to make the argument that they should have come out strong, done more, gone harder, you may well be right, and I even suspect pretty strongly that you are right, in that.

Where you’re dead wrong, is that this bill is just an unyeilding sack of shit, and if you persist in mouthing this all over the place, what you’ll get is this:
You’ll have made it an excellent talking point for the GOP that “They’re never satisfied, this is just the camel’s nose under the tent. They are going to push for single payer very quickly, and do it so fast that the insurance companies in this country are going to collapse, and wreck the economy all over again.”

INSTEAD OF OUR BEING IN THE SITUATION TO SAY: “We started comporomise health insurance reform, and this was a great step forward, and we did all that we could in that environment, and we staved off a disaster in this country, we retarded price increases, but now they are rising again, and we need to do more. We need to offer a true public option to compete with the heatlh insurance companies to keep prices down, and they need to negotiate prices on drugs and procedures, and the insurance companies should be able to do that, too.”.

AND DOING THAT WE WILL IMPROVE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS.

But if a substantial enough population on the left keeps talking about how this bill is nothing, nothing at all? You’re going to get us painted as people that never will get enough, and it may stick enough to put us right back where we were pre-’08.

So, keep that whining coming, kiddies, and reap the whirlwind.

Well, it does mean that 500 billion out of the impossibly high 2.5 trillion that we spend on healthcare every year will go an insurance industry that doesn’t really need to exist, and that cost is passed on to working people and our children.

No I believe it is a good bill because of what is in it. I was answering a question on the difference between the GOP and Dems. I do not care what the template was. I care about how it will effects the lives of citizens. I believe it will improve the lives of many citizens and it creates a framework for improving the lives of others in the future.

More people with health insurance is better. No lifetimes caps is better.

Hear, hear!

But without the bill it would be a greater percentage and I have no way of knowing if those numbers are correct.is

I hope you are right–but don’t feel as hopeful as you.

Right on.

Oh so you’re still hopeful that we’ll fix this as we go along. Why would you hold on to that hope given the evidence of the past 12 months. Again, do you ever consider that actual CHANGE might be facilitated by the left having a SPINE and standing up to an administration that’s been so smitten with big industry, or by at least holding the admin’s feet to the fire.

If you have no idea that these numbers are correct, you have no basis for evaluating the bill that will pass this week.

More people with health insurance is better. No lifetimes caps is better.

That is change.

I was indicating the numbers you wrote had no source. Besides, not having handy accounting numbers on health care does not mean my view has no basis.

That is change

You mean, Change We Can Believe In..

Yes We Can!

What crap!

First, your statement that the “left” wanted some uncompromised, un-watered-down pure solution and would settle for nothing less is a fallacy. The public option -was- a compromise, and unless you qualify 60-70% of the country as “16-year-old puritanical ideologues” your statement is a load of garbage.

Second, if you think making the observation that a shit sandwich is, in fact, a shit sandwich is “giving ammunition to the GOP” then you have a problem with correctly allocating responsibility to the people who made the shit sandwich. I don’t think the “fucking retards” are the problem here, I suggest you take up the problem with the crew of geniuses who stress “choice and competition” as the basis of this bill while leaving the insurance industry’s antitrust exemption intact.

So let me get this straight:

The Democrats must not be criticized for the bad things they do because if they are, Republicans will seize on it to fear-monger about good things the Democrats ostensibly intend to do (but have no intention of actually doing.) I think you may have a flaw in your logic.

A couple of facts for you to ponder.

Fact: President Obama made an eleventh-hour agreement to issue an executive order lending the weight of his office to the anti-abortion measures included in the bill. This move was designed to appease a handful of anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care reform in an effort to restrict women’s access to abortion. This executive order helps to cement the misconception that the Hyde Amendment is settled law rather than what it really is — an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. It also sends the outrageous message that it is acceptable to negotiate health care reform on the backs of women.

Fact: The bill permits age-rating, the practice of imposing higher premiums on older people. This practice has a disproportionate impact on women, whose incomes and savings are lower due to a lifetime of systematic wage discrimination.

Fact: The bill also permits gender-rating, the practice of charging women higher premiums simply because they are women. Some are under the mistaken impression that gender-rating has been prohibited, but that is only true in the individual and small-group markets. Larger group plans (more than 100 employees) sold through the exchanges will be permitted to discriminate against women — having an especially harmful impact in workplaces where women predominate.

We know why those gender- and age-rating provisions are in the bill: because insurers insisted on them, as they will generate billions of dollars in profits for the companies. Such discriminatory rating must be completely eliminated.

fact 1, the executive order is irrelevant because it change no law

fact 2 that does not sound good, but insurance is about risk and older people are riskier. I would prefer it weren’t there but not enough to keep status quo.

fact 3 that does not sound good, but insurance is about risk and each gender has different risks. I would prefer it weren’t there but not enough to keep status quo.

Good day and God Bless.

Just wait till O-bummer “reforms” Social Security too….will the “Hope-a-Dopes” finally wake up? I’ll be dusting off my spare EU citizenship. Not too fond of cat food in my old age….

Hey Comrade,

Don’t ever forget that a pig can hold a whip and teach itself to walk upright.

Take your fucking fantasy god and stuff it!

Yeah, I’m not from rural Kentucky, so you’ll have to explain what that means.

Thank you!

The other problem I have with a lot of the comments around here is that they are unnecessarily rude, arrogant and downright fucking nasty. Reminds me of the right wing sites. I can’t believe what’s happened to FDL over the past year or two. I used to love it here. Now, not so much.

FDL seems to have devolved into a den of arrogant pricks and spoiled brats. I think that all of you who are sooooooo angry here should go commiserate with your brethren over at FreeRepublic.com

Oh Bummah! used a bludgeon, cut sweetheart deals with InsurPharma

during the 2010 and 2012 campaigns, the republicans will simply refer to it as “chicago-style politics”. this law is such a dog that the memes write themselves.

I love how you whining corporatists keep blaming the progressives. Earth to the idiocracy(Corporatist), y’all made your bed now lay in it. If the damn bill is so good why are y’all so damn desperate to spin it as the Second Coming. We get it. You sold out to AHIP, Pharma, and my favorite for-profit hospitals. You guys are sickening. We are spending more than 40% on healthcare than any other industralized country and they have Universal Care but no our cum-sucking dem corporatists decide to transfer more than 500 billion to the healthcare industry to help out the poor babies. You guys should rot in hell. All roads lead to Wallstreet.

This bill is a good one. You people need to remember change is good if done gradually. We needed change but not too much change. What I don’t understand is where we will get all the new doctors that will be necessary to provide half way decent care for us all. The best and the brightest will start becoming trial lawyers instead of doctors.
As for Grayson, I don’t think he’ll have a job after November.

You said a mouth full. You also hit the nail on the head when it comes to progressives. Liberal Dems and yes, even Repubs want to improve things. Progressives simply want to destroy the system and start again. If destoying the system means destroying the country, the progressives don’t really care.

Um, no insurance is about pooling risk.
If you want to separate everyone by risk you have “pay your own.”

I proudly stand with you as do millions of others. I will not stop until we have Single payer insurance. This the beginning of things to come.

Amazing, just amazing, the willingness–nay, the absolute necessity–to believe. BTW, health insurance and hospital stocks are UP this morning…

I know you people don’t care for Rahm (and he certainly doesn’t care for you) but you must give credit where credit is due. It was Rahm who came up with the idea to push the bill to a vote during the first weekend of the NCAA basketball tourney. This was brilliant.
I’d like to see Obama pick Rahm as VP in 2012 and dump Biden. It would give the Dems a good shot of keeping the White House in 2016 and have some one at the helm with a little sense.

You must be joking! Emanuel for VP? I suppose you thought Lieberman was a real asset for Gore as well?

I can see the difference — the huge difference — between corporate Democrats who voted for watered-down health care changes, and Republicans who have done nothing but scream threats and lies.

The people I’m having a really hard time telling apart are the Beck/Malkin/Limbaugh drones, and the people on this site who rant about Oh Bummah and greet every attempt at discussion with a hearty “fuck you!”

This site really has devolved into FreeRepublic. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same people.

Despite the heavy troll traffic this a.m., this is one of the few places left where boosterism gets challenged by evidence (and folks are generally friendly).

Oh really? Then show me the evidence.

Every comment thread I’ve seen on this site for the last few months has been a long column of cheap insults, screaming rage, and smug hatred directed at anyone who tried to engage in substantive debate.

I notice a change in tone on the front page today — this is a first step, this is a move in the right direction, it could be a lot better and we can all work to make it better. Nice!

You know what would have been really nice? Seeing any of that here BEFORE the bill passed, and having some meaningful discussions about the next steps. But hey, better late than never. I do hope the generally friendly folks return here someday.

I hate the editor here.

You know what would have been really nice? Seeing any of that here BEFORE the bill passed, and having some meaningful discussions about the next steps.

What’s the point of conceding before the votes are counted? To stop the Democratic Party DC hemorrhage come November? I know that the two party system encourages the lesser of two evils but when is enough enough?

The cynic in me knew that, no matter how hard we pushed, the Democrats would be more interested in a perceived political victory and industry support come November than in working to improve the bill. Jon has done a wonderful job of keeping the legislation’s flaws front and center where other blogs and the media have glossed over them, declaring them fait d’accompli and giving Congress room to continue their political maneuvering instead of declaring “we have had enough” and forcing the President and Democratic leaders to stop giving in to outside interests.

The anger against Representative Kucinich from DKos and some in the media was disgusting. Where was that anger against Sen. Reid? Where was that anger against Sen. Baucus? Where is that anger against President Obama? Where *is* that *anger* at Sen. Dodd?

I’ve been reading Emptywheel for a while and only started following FDL after the President took office…about the time the other blogs began anointing Obama’s continuation of many of Bush’s policies as “just good politics.” And, while some of the comments are reminiscent of what one finds on Free Republic and Red State, I find much of regular commentary much more insightful and honest than many other blogs.

Plus, people here get angry.

What’s the point of conceding before the votes are counted?

Not concession — negotiation and strategy. Figure out how to make this better, if not right now then ASAP.

Let me turn the question around… We are going to have universal single-payer health care in America. It is inevitable. Not just morally and logically, but as an absolute economic necessity. The question is, will it happen in 5 years or 25? How do we make it happen sooner rather than as a result of total bankruptcy? Who will do the hard, messy, infuriating work to get us there?

With that task in front of us, what’s the point in screaming “I’m done with the dumbocrats!!!” ?

Anger at injustice is powerful and good, when it fuels strategic work towards a difficult goal. Anger for the sake of purging your rancid bile at anyone nearby is just a tea party.

Some of you don’t read so well. I grant you that had they done this differently, initially, they may have gotten something stronger through, had they pushed this harder, and earlier. Obama could have been involved in that, too.
But that wasn’t done, and nobody can travel back in time and do that, now, now can they?

We now have what we have. Let’s do something constructive and positive from here, instead of being the WATBs we bitch about the Republicans being ad nauseum. And anybody that wants to call me a corporatist? Now you’re just embarassing yourselves. You obviously have never read my posts, here or anywhere else, for that matter. How many ‘brantl’s do you figure there are, anyway?

And Ceasely7? I remember how my first bottle of whiskey was, too.