Although the bill is not what progressives wanted, it is grand to see the panderers of misinformation get a taste of defeat. Let’s move on to financial reform. Who knows, we might make a Roosevelt out of Obama yet.

panderers of misinformation

Like the liars in the WH?

Is that you, Joe Wilson?

Anyone want to venture a guess about how many of the 30 million forced to buy crap insurance will refuse to do so?

29,999,999

My thoughts exactly

Oh come now. Name names. Who is the one who will?

From NOW

Fact: President Obama made an eleventh-hour agreement to issue an executive order lending the weight of his office to the anti-abortion measures included in the bill. This move was designed to appease a handful of anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care reform in an effort to restrict women’s access to abortion. This executive order helps to cement the misconception that the Hyde Amendment is settled law rather than what it really is — an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. It also sends the outrageous message that it is acceptable to negotiate health care reform on the backs of women.

Fact: The bill permits age-rating, the practice of imposing higher premiums on older people. This practice has a disproportionate impact on women, whose incomes and savings are lower due to a lifetime of systematic wage discrimination.

Fact: The bill also permits gender-rating, the practice of charging women higher premiums simply because they are women. Some are under the mistaken impression that gender-rating has been prohibited, but that is only true in the individual and small-group markets. Larger group plans (more than 100 employees) sold through the exchanges will be permitted to discriminate against women — having an especially harmful impact in workplaces where women predominate.

We know why those gender- and age-rating provisions are in the bill: because insurers insisted on them, as they will generate billions of dollars in profits for the companies. Such discriminatory rating must be completely eliminated.

douvie

My biggest concern is how many will buy it who can’t afford it. Then after they have it, they won’t be able to afford the health care. Health care isn’t free even with insurance. Insurance isn’t a panacea and nothing was done to bring down the cost of health care.

Agree.

I just watched a lead report on Al Jazeerah television. They mistakenly claimed that Obama has achieved something that TR, JFK, and Clinton never achieved: “universal health care for Americans”.

Wow, where does the news media get this stuff?

The only people I saw negotiating health care on “the backs of women” were the right-to-lifers such as Bart Stupak.

Good luck defending the mandate in this year’s elections.

Maybe they deduct the copay and additional cost from their “fine”

Stupak did not sign an executive order condemning women to coat hanger abortions, that was the prick in the WH.

From WH propaganda.

C street needs to be shut down.

Time for your meds. Have a great morning.

My rep, Carol Shea POrter, voted for the POS despite saying all along that she would only vote for a PO. I will vote for her GOP challenger this year as at least he is not a spineless democrat. I know he is a nut case but so what.

Meds? I can’t afford no stinkin’ meds.

With apologies to John Ford

The health insurance is not crap, now maybe you don’t like the idea of having to buy something you don’t want to buy but that is your thing. My Father was a self-employed person and his cost of health insurance was exorbanat and this was in the 80s. So anyway people are free to go out and become self-employed without being restricted because of the enormous price of health care can only be a good thing for them and the country.

democracynow just replayed O’s speech. What a cynical man he is.

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

By a crushing 7 votes.

Please document the parts of the bill that will make sure medical insurance will be affordable. And I am not talking about govt subsidies to those with lower incomes. I’m asking for measures that will restrain insurance corps from raising prices and cutting services.

By the time the November elections roll around, I very much doubt that passing the health care bill will be a negative for most Democrats and I will be very surprised if you are correct.

Well you tell me what is your solution to this problem then.

Nice try at avoiding the issue.

Prepare to be surprised.

How about Single Payer?

Mike agree that insurance for self employed is a real problem. Insurance shouldn’t be tied to employment and it would be much cheaper. We own a small business–voted best small business to work for in our state. The more the government “helps” the harder they make it for small businesses to stay afloat. All of the added taxes and mandates will be a problem for everyone. We need reform and there could have been real change if politics, greed and political self interests weren’t the primary concern.

Those stupid Great Orange Barbarians keep sucking up all the bandwidth, and they are boring.

Mornin’, BT, pups

I wanna know the names of the pro-choice Dems who voted against this pos. They at least deserve a look before November.

Sure single-payer is the best solution but it wasn’t possible politically. So I agree that this bill is really watered down but I am still glad it passed because it gets our foot in the bill. Now we have won a battle not the war so we have to keep fighting.

I guess we’re gonna hafta put up with the anti-abortion and neoliberal trolls puffing out their chests for us for a few days. Fuck ‘em.

Uh, look around, Sparky. We didn’t win shit.

If this is such a great bill for the U.S. why do most of it’s provisions not go into effect for 4 years?

Goooooooood mor-ning, Gil-e-ad ! ! !

Democratic Party mail out flyers of course.

If it was such a good bill why did the WH have to lie, cheat and steal to get it passed.

They thought the wars were a good idea and we didn’t have to wait 4 years for them to take, or have an, effect.

Mike I am glad if this bill helps you and your dad but for most—the results of this bill will do more harm than good. I hope you are right that they can now improve it and make QUALITY health care available for all. I am not confident.

You have to remember, it’s David Frum. Speechwriter extraordinaire, that knows jackshit about anything. He’s such a popular Canadian, that they gave him to the US. Bastards, eh? Won’t take the little weasel back either.

Arundhati Roy is the guest on democracynow. She points out that democracy is highly overrated, as it is the democracies that occupy other countries: the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel in Palestine, India in Kashmir.

“single payer is the best solution but it wasn’t possible politically”

Yeh, because Obama DIDN’T WANT IT. (see Glenn Greenwald)

Don’t you remember what Dubya did with “only” 51 votes?

Agree nomolos–the lies bother me as much as the bills. It is as though they think we are stupid and if they say it—we will believe it. I just want them to be honest and up front.

They are out in force rejoicing in the victory against women, elderly and the poor.

I can retell my sister’s tragic story over and over. It is so powerful a story regarding the medical need for abortion in some pregnancies and it usually makes them leave.

Is it you who has problems with FDL closing? Yesterday I couldn’t get in at all until after dinner. Kept autoclosing.

Methinks ya hit the wrong reply link. My dad’s been dead for 30 years.

True, the best solution is single payer, but because of entrenched money in our system that was not attainable immediately. In WWII after the Pearl Harbor bombing the U.S. couldn’t invade Japan or Germany right after that they had to work towards it, one battle at a time. So what I am saying is take this and keep fighting for more. It will be four years before all of this kicks in so there is time to make fixes. If I am hungry I am not going to throw out the cooked beets when I wanted ice cream.

You really don’t get it do you? Obama sabotaged what could have been a far better bill with a robust public option and lower drug costs by his backroom deals with big pharma and AHIP, all to keep corporate campaign cash flowing. Is that your idea of “leadership.”

Sorry SD I was replying to mike

I don’t know how this health care bill will turn out but at least for today I am clicking my heels because the economic elite will have to pay more tax.

I don’t remember the same amount of passion from Boehner over the Patriot Act…oh, and he mentioned Thomas Jefferson, who according to the State of Texas is a non-Person. Why pay attention to him?

Yes. And when I did a scan of my computer yesterday, it said that FDL was reported to Microsoft as containing malicious something or other. So it isn’t my system.

Huh? The “economic elite” paying more tax are the middle class in this bill. So if your family really does own a small business, that would be YOU.

Who fucking said it’s impossible, the greedy rich pricks that run the country and control the media, that’s who.

This was a stark choice between for profit from death and disease and a single nonprofit payer. We LOST.

Cuz he’s orange and glows in the dark. If he had a D after his name he’d be all the rage on a certain website.

I’m still waiting for mike to tell me how the bill will rein in insurance corp abuses.

I realize that but what I am saying is he may have had to do that to have an opening. Don’t you think that with the moneyed interests they would have killed it from the start if Obama would have said the single payer is the way to go?

There’s only one reason Medicare-for-all wasn’t possible. Obama said it was off the table during the campaign, giving every congressscumbag a tailor made excuse to say it wasn’t possible.

ROFL. Another blind faith believer.

I’m going to email your comment to them. I’m hosting a book salon on 4/11, and I don’t want to have problems then.

“Moneyed interests” are the ones that wrote it after having “private” meetings WITH Obama. Mike, where have you been for the last year? Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to this crap.

And many thought only Republicans could be nothing more than blind partisan followers. The “Party” right or wrong.

I deleted all my cookies, history files and everything, and it still is not acting right with Firefox OR IE.

Prolly because of the language we allow. Switch to Firefox or Safari and you won’t have that problem. IE blows.

Ah, Blue Texan, always ready to waive the victory flag for the ‘dems against repubs’.

Except everybody lost, who cares about the repubs when facing the enemy from within?

Mike–that would be me and I can guarantee we don’t live a gilded life. We provide work for 100 people and have worked our tails off. The government takes more and more. The truly rich hide their money, don’t pay their taxes–ie Gietner and get away with it. I fear this class warfare tactic is winning and it is hitting the wrong people—the very people who work hard, follow the rules, are successful and pay more than their fair share of taxes. We wouldn’t feel so angry about taxes if they were being used efficiently and to help the people who need help but we all know that doesn’t happen.

It’s like the toothache. Disappears when you get to the dentist’s office.

The money interest had THEIR interests served not average Americans.

O and the rebate or whatever comes in the next tax year after you pay the full freight. NICE.

Try reinstalling Firefox. Remove the current program first then use IE to download the current version. The system will keep the ancillary files so you won’t lose your bookmarks, etc.

Teddy Roosevelt went after the Robber Barons at the height of their power with nothing more than the bully pulpit. Mr. Bipartisan had that same bully pulpit and with his oratorical skills he could have done a far far better job of taking on corrupt entrenched corporate interests if he had truly wanted to. No amount of apologizing can change that fact.

Tried that. Doesn’t work right in Firefox either at times. I get alot of internet connection errors just from this site. I thought at first it was my computer, but it isn’t. This doesn’t happen on any site but this one, doesn’t matter what browser I use.

Thanks SD, I’ll try that!

The Emperor represents the corrupt entrenched corporate interests, not the proles.

Sorry, this is where I get off the bus completely. A dumb bill from a dumb president and a dumb congress. A horrible approach to this problem, and a continuous and even frightening trail of lack of leadership, clear thinking, honesty, imagination, and courage. And this drumbeat of bad taste, soap-opera speeches form the president and others. Barack Obama is becoming more an more obviously an almost perfect reflection of our country at this time: shallow, limited to a degree which is crippling, unsophisticated, and guided by principles which are ghastly in their resemblance to reality TV. We have achieved a level of crudeness equal to our lack of culture, and a level of discourse equal to that of a failing sixth grade.

Bush was awful, but expected. But this president is wrecking what I care about, and has made intelligent liberalism into an animated television commercial. Disgusting in his terrifying level of cynicism and the magnetic force he exerts on an electorate pitiful in its sheer inability to see with any sort of clarity. A nation of drunk sheep, drunk on infantilism and the wishful thinking of prepubescent brats.

It’s over.

I think we are going to see a whole bunch of cat litter Republicans winning this fall.

Al Jazeerah television is news media?

Or buy a MAc!!!!

They are merely reporting the “spin” and not the reality of the legislation. I don’t think the French or the Italians have to worry about U.S. “health care” overtaking their systems. Not even close.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4,386

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,025

Iraki and Afghan casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2010: 9,920 and counting.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

That was going to be MY suggestion!

So if this bill is the “first” step in health care reeeeform what is the next step? Have to wait at least 4 years before the next step can be taken?

Well said–agree totally.

Yes, you are exactly right! It seems that many people believe that the entrenched system built over years and defended by “the party of no” can be removed by successfully passing a law or two. This is simply one battle in the long civil war ahead.

karen

In all upcoming policy debates, this question must be asked:

WHAT PRINCIPLES ARE YOU WILLING TO SELL OUT FOR A PARTICULAR OUTCOME?

The question must be asked at every turn throughout the process. To the corporatists, values are bargaining chips in realpolitik, nothing more. And your values are the cheapest ones to give away!

The Corpodem Party has demonstrated a willingness, nay, an eagerness, to throw progressives and their priorities under the bus, even before substantive negotiations begin.

When it happens again, and it will, we need to be ready to jump with both feet, repeatedly, down the throats of our elected officials.

They are not to be trusted (big revelation) and deserve NO LOYALTY WHATSOEVER, beyond what they give away of ours and what they get for us.

Even if you sucked it up for this bill, you ought to listen carefully and critically when you hear (Party unity,” “pragmatic,” or any sentence starting with “The American People…”. Those are buzzwords for “Shut up and sit down. The big boys are going to work, now.” You are a pathetic mark if you take at face value any word that comes out of the mouth of the President or any lawmaker, right up to your *hero* of choice, whether it be Dennis, Bernie or Alan.

Now, it’s obvious that we have to work with them (for now) — there is no alternative (for now). But, it needs to be strictly business.

HUH? Did you reply to the wrong comment?

If you’re BOA, AIG, Citigroup, or Bear Stearns it’s “here’s the money right now.”
If you’re Blackwater, KBR, Lockheed, Raytheon etc. it’s “Billions, Schmillions…who cares if a little cash gets lost. Here, do some more cost-plus tapping into the old treasury.”
If you’re a working American it’s “Gee, we’d like to help with your economic situation and lack of healthcare. How ’bout you pony up a huge cut of your income so we can give it to the Insurance Cartel so they can then charge you co-pays and deductables and you still get shitty care?”

My bad. Replying to someone that said this is just the “first step.”

I agree with Mike of Clearwater. The bill was the best we could get, and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming in technicolor. The public option would not have passed the House on final reading. They didn’t have the votes; otherwise Pelosi would have forced the President to push it through the Senate. Mike is right. This is a plutocracy. Get used to it. That’s why big pharma got their sweet deal. They were prepared to throw several hundred million dollars at the Dems in the event their sweet deal was annulled. That’s the way it works here. Money talks, and even louder than before since the Supreme Court decision. Tough to live in the US. I’m glad I don’t anymore.

Great post thanks

Can see the Dem adds for the fall now. Boehner, Pence, and the rest of the Rethugs repeating that if this legislation is passed there would be “armaggedon, the end of times, socialism, communism, it was all over for this country as we know it etc etc” The endlessly repeated inflammatory screaming by the Rethugs is going to come in handy.

While single payer advocates including myself are deeply dissapointed that there is no public option in this legislation. Just cannot hold back my support for the Dems who worked so hard for a big step forward in health care reform.

I was surprised that they did not allow Congressman Dingell gavel the votes in for historic context. Was also so surprised as they ended the vote that more folks did not focus a bit more on him sitting right up there in front. Dingell should have been up on that deck to make the point of how this has been a long time coming.

Is anyone else tired of the MSM repeating that the Dems are finished in the house this fall. Bullshit

Take the partisan blinders off.

“How come I still can’t afford healthcare and the CEO of Cigna gets a 110 million dollar package?”
“Because you’re not as important as Cigna little guy. Hey vote for me.”
We’ll see how well you can spin it. Good bye sell-out dems. It’s not been nice knowing you.

David Frum at least is an honest conservative:

The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s

Now when anyone asks me why I changed my party affiliation to Unaffiliated from Democrat, I have a pithy answer. The Democrats have just passed a bill based on 20-year-old Republican ideas.

It wasn’t John Ford. It was John Huston.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to write in the name of a real Progressive candidate?

So we get the political success that the MSM and folks like Reich say will help the Obama Administration. Help them do what might be and interesting question. Certainly the progressives and liberals, in the traditional meaning of the word, are on notice that their ideals are always going to the first things traded away when everyone sits down to the table.

Those that think this has weakened the “party of no” are living in a dream much like those that think this victory in anyway suggests that this is Obama’s transition to FDR. Obama has not convinced those on the right that didn’t like this going in that he is correct – now they have energized the conservative single-issue base. Other than a handful of Ds, that need White House support to get reelected, few others have been persuaded on the left that the corporate bailouts and forcibly reducing the amount that companies pay for employee insurance were more important that creating a path to single-payer.

Next up – triangulating on the latino vote, via emigration reform, in an attempt to survive the elections in the fall due to a disappointed part of those that always vote for those that lean left.

Obama and the centrist base seems to have won this battle.

What do you mean “they can now improve…”. Are you done fighting for single payer?

No wonder you’re not confident. You’ve given up.

Hear, hear! Great post.

“My biggest concern is how many will buy it who can’t afford it. Then after they have it, they won’t be able to afford the health care.”

That would be my wife and me. We could swing the premium, perhaps, but I don’t think we could afford to go to the doctor.

And what would your post look like today if the HC vote had failed? I am a progressive, and the bill is woefully inadequate, but at least I can see a small victory here. I’m sorry, it is satisfying to see Boehner turn from orange to magenta.

From the story in the Times:

Democrats who support abortion rights refused to accept any legislative changes. But on Tuesday, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), the leader of the antiabortion faction, ran into White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel at the House gym, and Emanuel offered a compromise: Obama could issue an executive order clarifying the ban on federal funding of abortion. Stupak and six colleagues eventually agreed to the executive order, which was announced by the White House on Sunday afternoon and is scheduled to be issued after the bill is signed. [emphasis added]

But unfortunately, a lot of people like jonboinAR @ 102 had to get shafted so you could get that satisfaction. In the long run, I don’t think the momentary satisfaction is worth it.

“Gee, I spent all this money. I still like this car even though it won’t take me anywhere. I can sit in it and listen to the radio.”
Turns on the radio.
“COME ON DOWN TO SCHEISTERS AUTO. WE’LL GET YOU A CAR, NO MATTER WHAT!”

I would imagine folks who don’t have insurance but will now have to buy shit they can’t afford and won’t help don’t give a rat’s ass about Boner’s skin tone. I know I don’t. Who won? If “we” won it’s like winning the ugliest and smelliest contest.

Please consider what a loss would have meant.

We’ve been through this. Take it somewhere else.

A loss would have meant we didn’t give AHIP exactly what it wanted. Consider that.

The tryout for Sunstein cognitive ninjas is down the hall.

Brings up the image of winning “king of the mountain” where the territory fought over is a mound of cow dung.

I wonder if Mike from Clearwater still believes that we are going to find the WMD. They are just buried in the desert somewhere.

It is strange to see a low information hopeful, we’ll get the PO later, voice in the comments here.

Heard a song on yrock/xpn this weekend about a breakup and the female singer is saying – you want to keep in touch. but – how can we keep in touch when you don’t call?

It’s the same here. Getting dissed, in writing, by the full Congress, and signed in a televised ceremony. And — you think it will get better later? As has been said sooo many times, this is likely the biggest majority Obama is ever going to see. Whatever was going to be done– just got signed last night.

Mike,
You need to affix your skeptical goggles.

You will not receive a pony later. Or a phone call. Or a Valentine card.

Thanks to the blog and its writers for shining the light of reality on things.

cc

One image that really got to me centered on Rep. John Lewis, who was my House Rep. for many years. Yesterday, across the street from the House, Democratic House members were getting ready to go vote on the Health Care bill. The Tea Party had taken over the street and were raising hell. Speaker Pelosi locked arms with Rep. Lewis and others and they marched out together and crossed the avenue as the Tea Party people screamed invective, terrible, hateful things. The House members were silent and resolute as they marched up the House steps. John Lewis held his head high, unafraid for he’d been there before. Many years ago the voices of hate tried to shout him down and yet he spoke. Hatred struck him down and yet he regained his feet and marched on. He bled for freedom and yesterday knew no fear. He’d walked this road before.

That was a great image and a proud moment.

Politics is the art of the possible – not the ideal. And it is certainly not the “do it my way or I take my ball and go home” – that is the way of the immature and naive.
People on this site talk as though corporatism started with this bill. America is entrenched in corporatism. Obama proved once again that he is smarter than the cynics and the status quo. This bill is the start. You can either get to work helping to improve health insurance or you can complain.
That is your choice – get to work to improve it or go lick your wounds in the corner.

Yes. This became symbolic of so much more. And don’t knock symbolism. It can be what drives the inspiration. I was glad to see the bill pass for those reasons.

Also from the political standpoint. Mr. Obama. Meet Mrs. Pelosi. She saved his ass. They both know he owes her.

Would that any Tea Partier had the courage of John Lewis.

How does a dragon breathe fire if it has cut off its own nose?

Your common sense is not common here.

It’s hard to lick wounds when they’re all lethal stabs to the back.

“Obama proved once again that he is smarter than the cynics and the status quo.”

Obomba IS the status quo. See ya in Nov.

People on this site talk as though corporatism started with this bill. America is entrenched in corporatism.

No, we knew corporatism was the religion of Republicans. Our naïveté was in dreaming that our OUR OWN PARTY didn’t gleefully embrace it.

This bill is the start.

The corporatists got what they wanted. If you choose to believe that they will have ANY inclination to give *fixing* this POS anything but lip service, you’re kidding yourself.

go lick your wounds in the corner

No, not planning on that. Just leaving the Democratic Party behind.

Yes our nation’s life has become contaminated and now enfeebled by corporatism. It has been there a long time but the hubris that led to the loss of half the nation’s wealth in recent years is breathtaking.

I think one of the two most important effects of the prolonged debate on health care and the health insurance industry has been an educational experience for us all. The Tea Baggers are as wearied of corporatism as we liberals are.

I think that in the long term the insurance industry is dead meat and will be pleading to get out of the health care business and the people will demand it.. Things have a way of working out.

Although I am disappointed by lack of PO, it is the lowering of Medicare eligible age that I feel was the great loss. Because, believe it or not, incremental change is only what we could have gotten this time around. That is just the way our system works. Yes, FDR did enact Social Security in one go, but then the country was hurting much more. Thanks, in part to that program, the long recession has not exposed people to the same horrors. Therefore, they will not accept change of this magnitude easily.

you can count me as one.

good one. we have been well trained, winning at any cost. doesn’t matter what you win.

Really to bad about the teabaggers. If they had the capacity to be against this bill for the right reasons, based on facts, they could be allies. Doesn’t appear they will get out of the gutter to do that and I’m afraid they can’t read.

He’s smarter because he gave them exactly what they wanted? I’m sorry, you’ll need to explain how that works.

I have every intention of licking my wounds, I have been wounded by this democratic party and I may not have a right to health care, but I have a right to be outraged and wounded. But I am sure not going to be naive or immature enough to think that this democratic party is going to fix this. Obama got exactly what he wanted and the sooner you see his expertise in giving all of our hard earned money over to his corporate donors, the sooner we can do something about it. It is not our politics that is the problem, it is the uninformed people that keep supporting the politicians that are the best at fooling them. It is time to support the best, not the most electable(whatever that is). Until people figure out they need to shut the corporate media off, because surprise, surprise they are only telling you what is in the best interest of them, this country is going down. Amy Goodman does not answer to the corporations and if anyone else has a source of real news out there not beholden to or controlled by the corporations, please let us know.

As long as the GOP is the party of crazy, you betcha.

“We pushed back on the undue influence of special interests,” Mr. Obama said. “We didn’t give in to mistrust or to cynicism or to fear. Instead, we proved that we are still a people capable of doing big things.”

And, this weasel said this with a straight face. He either must be a consummate/pathological liar or the most self deluded human being on the planet.