Happy Spring, DeVeria. We expect snow here, later.

My experience of being the main wage earner a couple of times is that for that to work there has to be a full household duty assumption by the one who is at home. It can’t be that one does child and home care and earns wages outside the home.

I think it is perfectly acceptable. One thing, my sister tried this very briefly with her husband but he was lousy as a homemaker(no offense to my b-in-law, love the guy, he just can not keep a home). I think it really depends on the couple.

I should say, ultimately my sister went to law school and they both work, which is what works for their family.

My priest is going to be a stay at home Dad at some point, and I think he is going to be ideal for it.

Good morning DeVeria!

G’morning Ruth…not snow. So, you didn’t have a problem still respecting him as the head of the household. Did it ever become a problem in arguments?

I think this is a rather loaded question. Of course it is fine for the man to stay at home, but I think that it is far too easy for breadwinner (woman) to then turn around and shame the guy for not being out in the workforce. This recession has been very unkind to men and as result many families are facing this scenario, not because of progressive idealism, but just because the guy can’t find a job.

While acceptable, I think it would be very difficult for me to sit back and stay at home while my wife is out working. Far too fickle is the emotional state of people and it is far too easy to shame a man for not being the breadwinner. Women generally are looking for a man at a similar or higher station in life financially, so for this to work would most likely be an issue of necessity and not something that was sought out from the get go.

In fact, perhaps I insinuate too much, but as far as the status of the male in the relationship where the woman is the breadwinner smacks of a double standard. In most relationships both man and woman are equals, if that isn’t the case then something is wrong in that relationship. If it is about power then that’d be a relationship I’d not want to be party to. Neither party to a relationship has overarching decision making powers that the other has to follow. Perhaps that’s in the Bible, but that sure doesn’t work with my ex-wife.

Good Morning, DeVaria
I have a couple of pieces of advice. First, I think it’s best to see it as both people working. Just that one does it outside the house and gets a paycheck. But, keeping a home and raising the kids is also a lot of hard work. Secondly, it’s good to keep in mind that people will always treat us the way we let them. Do you know what I’m saying?
As far as worrying about what other people think is acceptable? Who cares what other people think. I had my third child at 42 and out of wedlock. Peoples reactions showed me who were my true friends.

I’m trying to wrap my mind around it. I am just so funny with money, I don’t know how it would work with me.

Will he be bringing any income into the household? Should that matter?

Good morning DeVeria and all. I did my first bicycle ride of the season on Friday. Hip hip hooray! I didn’t have my camera with, but I should have. I rode by Blue Chip Farm, a horse breeding farm (trotters & pacers) that is 9 miles from my house. The mares foal mostly from January-May, and there were plenty in the fields with little ‘uns. Love the way they go everywhere mamma goes; stick right by her side. Very cute.

I earned more than both my husbands, but they both worked.

I’m glad you responded. I really wanted a man’s point of view.

Hmmmm. That’s one perspective. Another would be a scenario where the man at home still expects the Little Woman to work at the office or wherever all day and then come home to cook and clean. I’ve seen that happen with couples. Hell, I lived that for a while. Just a while, though. :O

Forgot the link to Blue Chip Farm.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. What people say would never be an issue for me. It would be conditioning myself to be respectful and mindful of my comments and attitudes. A man’s ego can be a powerful thing.

Oh no, that’s not going to happen. Not at all.

OK, new scenario…what if you are both working from home, but the woman is bringing home more than the man? But the man, is forthcoming with everything else…acceptable?

Nope. Not once they have the child. She makes a good income so they should be fine, therefore no, I don’t think it matters at all.

That means, I need to do double duty this next coming week.

No. Exercise is not something that you can do double to catch up on missed days. Just get yourself into the rhythm of doing it consistently each day.

Now for your questions. I’ve seen a few articles the last couple of years on this. The house husband is becoming more and more prevalent and it should be less and less of an issue. Emphasis on should. Beyond what others say, it really comes down to what works best for the two parties involved, i.e., if the man and woman can deal with the idea of the man being stay-at-home, then it really becomes the business of no one else.

This is from the Daily Mail in the UK

NY Mag take.

Note: I was seven when my mother went back to college to finish her degree. My father, with his 9th grade formal education fully supported her in this and I learned at a very early age that there is no such thing as a “man’s job” or a “woman’s job” but that it’s work necessary to keeping the house running and “boy you’d best get up off your seat and do what I tell you and clean (or cook or do the laundry or [fill-in-the-blank].”

Oh my, that is beautiful. Funny, I was just thinking about horse back riding yesterday. Trying to decide what I want to do for my birthday. I haven’t done that in a very long time. Grew up in a neighborhood with lots of horses and although I didn’t have one of my own, I had several friends whose family did and I rode quite a bit.

I don’t know how acceptable it is but my husband, who is 6yrs older than me, wants to retire in 2yrs and let me bring in the paycheck. Personally, I can’t wait. If he’s good at it, it means I’ll be free of housework, laundry and cooking. Sounds like heaven.
I’ve always wanted a ‘wife’.

Well, yeah, I mean, here you are saying both spouses work from home but the woman earns more? Of course it is acceptable. The woman in this scenario is capable of making more. Why would she want to earn less than she is capable of? I mean, if she likes the work.

I hear you…my body was retaliating and I think unconsciously I just gave it a break.

I’m going to read these articles, it is becoming more and more prevalent.

This has been going on for a while, at least early 80s. Usually more evolved couples really make it work. Used to work with a Dr. from India who did not believe it. So different from his culture, I guess. In order for it to work, the guy has to be totally involved with all aspects of child rearing , housework etc.Beautiful thing to see.

My 19 year old brother is in love with horses and is driving my mother crazy right now because he is determined to buy a horse before his family horse ride next month.

When the kids were small, I would have gone berserk. Also, I am a compulsive workaholic, so the four months I spent unemployed last year were hellish. Now that my youngest is now almost 13, the biggest chores are laundry and meals. Perhaps it is mellowing with age, perhaps it is the realism of being faced with zero income recently, or perhaps it is a shift in society (or D, all of the above), but I am pretty sure that if it had to happen with me staying home and the wife as chief bacon-bringer, it would be okay at our house.

As several other folks have cautioned, though, I have seen several out of work guys not spend any time looking for a new job, doing any housework, and in one case, even spending the cash his wife was bringing in! Does one have the ability to break down “stereotypes,” which only exist in our heads, and look at your children and your wife and say, “I will do whatever it takes” for them? I think it is a maturity level and a depth-of-relationship issue – some guys are just too selfish.

My 2 cents worth

Personally, I always think the person who is better with money should manage the checkbook, regardless of who is the bigger breadwinner.

I don’t think chores just be distinguished by gender, but rather talents and desire.

Yes, the setting is gorgeous. Must be more than 200 acres. Not much info on the website, except for the stud fees. I actually saw a breeding once; artificial insemination for trotters & pacers. Fee payable on live birth. Mares are given hormones shortly after birth so they can conceive again. Not much of a life for the poor girls.

Hope you find a place to ride again.

It sounds good, but will you really be ok being the one that brings in the money, even if he continues to have to spend it?

True…

ok, how do you become “more evolved”? LOL

My wife right now has a full-time job and our Ins. I was a victim of the economic Titanic were on and was thrown over board with millions of others to lighten the load. For those of us now in the water like me who are 60+ the odds against us finding new jobs at this juncture and with this clueless Admin. are low to say the least. Do I like having my wife have to carry the load, NO. I have worked since I was 12 and I’m from a generation where being at home even at 60 is destructive dignity wise. What do you do? I send out dozens of resumes a week and do the networking calls as friends and family ( carefully as not to hurt these relationships) but all to no avail so far and this is since fall 2008. This is the longest period of my adult life I’ve been without steady full time work. It’s definitely IMO worse for a man then for a women because of societal expectations being different for men then for women. A women is “allowed” even today to be a “house wife” if her husband works and suffers no societal animus or loss of personal dignity , unfortunately this isn’t the case even today for men. Women’s liberation only provided liberation from old stereotypes for women and allowed them to enter the workforce or stay home. Nothing changed for men.

I think you have a point there

Now that I agree with…

Coffee’s gone & so am I. Have a great day everyone.

Oh, I don’t know about that. Women could enter the work force but were also expected to keep everything going at home too. Varies from family to family, but it’s a lot of pressure to be expected to bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never, never let him forget he’s the man! Ha, remember that one?

Have a beautiful day. Say Hi to the Girls for me?

I don’t think you have anthing to feel bad about. You walked you entire life to provide for your family and now due to economic measures beyond your control, you are unable to do so.

Hmmmm…..well, depends. If he buys groceries, that’s fine. If he buys a 52″ tv without my input, not so good. But that goes even if he were still working.

I for one, would have absolutely no problem with becoming a house husband. I’m a reasonably good cook and can fix enough variants to keep people going for a while. The only cleaning chore that I tend to skimp on doing is dusting (which probably goes back to the military school days where we had to dust everything every day).

I’d say that as long as the alpha position on income does not become a cudgel, things should be OK. If both are working, then share the housework, determine which chores both can live with not being done and go on. And these should be the way, no matter which person is alpha on income.

As long as there is mutual love and respect, anything goes.

Enjoy

LOL…true…

And if the man stays home, are the women still expected to respect them and treat them as the “head” of the household.

fwiw, I can’t see myself in a relationship where either person carries that title…

I must tell you, DeVeria, that considering how many pie fights have occurred here at the Lake this week, you’ve raised an issue and questions here that could be seen as a can of worms. Fortunately, we get mostly the nicer commenters on Saturday morning. *g*

And I guess that is the most important thing.

Well, right on, you! Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Thats a good thing…just having a conversation.

I hear you!

Money’s always a sore point. When my girlfriend and I were stay-at-home moms we used to complain that we never had money in out pockets. The ongoing joke was that if we asked our husbands for money to buy gum, they’d give us a quarter. OTOH, a third friend said that in her household, the hubby cashed the paycheck, took a week’s spending money, and she handled the rest. Much better system.

Your third friends story reminds me of the beginning of the Jetsons. With the wallet?

First, I feel your pain. I’m also 60+ and unemployed, although I have been able to land a part-time temporary assignment to supplement that. I’m also a single woman, so some of the other ramifications you describe are not issues for me.

I think the “house husband” role boils down to how comfortable the people involved are with the setup. It doesn’t matter at all what society as a whole thinks; what matters is how much the people involved will let their feelings be influenced by the opinions of others. Are they and is their relationship strong enough to embrace a lifestyle that is different to that of most other couples? I also think it makes a big difference whether they choose to do this or whether they feel forced into it by a circumstance such as unemployment, which is bound to leave a lot of scars.

Yes, money can be a very sore spot…that sounds like that could work.

Yes whether by choice or circumstance would definitely make a big difference. Circumstances could change at any time.

These are tough times for everyone. Keep looking for work, but also you might want to ask yourself what activities you wanted to do but didn’t have time for while you were busy working. This is a good time to reinvent yourself. Maybe you always dreamed of making things, or painting or playing an instrument. Skydiving. Growing flowers and vegetables. Maybe you’re the next world’s best bowler. Know what I’m saying?
Best of luck to you. Keep your chin up.

I agree…take some time to do the things you were unable to do while you were busy working. That will give a new perspective on things.

This implies that your b-in-law is too stupid or too lazy to bother to learn the complexities of laundry, vacuuming, cooking, straightening up around the place, marketing and other “woman’s work.” As a man, I’d be ashamed to be such a worthless slug.

Some people are just not good keeping house…

Sorry but I got distracted by things that had to get done. In answer to your question, DeVeria, actually, I had no trouble with respect, but he did, and suffered diminution of self-respect. And we really didn’t bring it up in arguments, as I recall. Both times, he found something satisfactory but it was only possible because I had taken over for awhile. That made it work out well.

Absolutely depends on the couple. One of my first PC repair jobs was at a home where the wife told me she had always had the bigger job and Scott, her husband, did most of the home stuff and kid stuff. She called herself lucky to have a guy who took care of that stuff with goodwill, but I think her appreciation was part of the package. Everybody likes to be valued.

Trotters!! I love trotters. My mom used to take me to the track when I was real young. Wonder if that’s where I first starting loving animals.

Let me say first of all, that I’m sorry for your troubles. It sounds like finding a job, any job, might be better for you than finding the “right” job. Maybe now is the time for you to think about working for yourself. Perhaps, if you like, we could have a brainstorming session if you provide your skills and desires; maybe we can help you figure out what kind of “second” job you would like to create for yourself. (You MAY wind up volunteering — how does that sound?)

But I really disagree with your second point. I think women’s liberation opened up the society for everyone! If we work, then you get to stay at home! The real questions to be discussed are:

do you like housework (any of it?)
will you do it?
do you BOTH feel satisfied with your contributions?
if you only count your contributions in terms of money, perhaps you and your wife could figure out what your salary is for the chores you do around the house.

I think you are free to do just about anything at this point in time. You don’t just have to keep looking for work every day when there is none. Early retirement is an option at 62. Had you thought about what you might do when you retire?

Seeking “outside work” in your field can get very discouraging, especially after such a long time. Maybe it’s time to take a little break, and figure out what you would LIKE to do for say the next couple of years?

Does your wife feel like you are making contributions to the household?Does her perception of what you are bringing to the table make a difference to your own self-worth? Maybe it’s time to have a little talk to make sure the two of you are on the same page.

Depends what standards they are being held to. They may not do it the way WE would do it, but how flexible are we when judge others’ work?

Some people won’t even let their kids clean their own rooms because they don’t “do it right.” We don’t want to be so judgmental that we hinder contribution to the household.

Reminder: these are learned skills (maybe his mom wasn’t a great housekeeper or maybe she never demanded that he learn how).

I remember a great episode on “Raymond” when his wife discovered that he had purposely messed up the laundry so he would never have to do it. That’s the flip side of the coin.

I totally agree

You’ve done this before haven’t you? :) Excellent responses!

re money in a relationship: my folks solved it right at the start by taking his weekly check and deducting all household expenses. Then, they split the remainder. I, of course, asked about the odd penny LOL. My mother replied, “his, of course.”

They always discussed purchases, always worked and played together.

yes…doing it together and having understanding I think is the key.

Maybe because I am a hetro radical feminist who flirts with the Utopian idea of being a celibate woman separatist, my big reaction to when I hear women complain about the “tables turning” or a “double standard” and is it right or even more nails on chalkboard men whining about how they are feminist BUT it bothers them said in total contempt and freaking disdain.

Here it is folks. If you as a woman can’t respect a man who stays home, get out of the relationship. If you are concerned that in this case, being the major provider for your family which is what a good mother and a good wife/life partner does, whether it’s working at a traditional job or working at the house to provide a HOME, get the hell out of the relationship. If you are concerned that you are hurting his “widdle” ego, doing things you love, and let’s face it, most women are happier at work than being a homemaker, dump him. There’s respecting feelings on important things and then there is pandering to an oversize ego, and in this case listening to a man whine about how ashamed he is that his wife is the provider is pandering. Get out of the relationship. No, seriously, as a woman you work a full-time job, and then probably come home to a guy who thinks since he changed the kid’s diaper, and that interrupted his World of Warcraft raid, he shouldn’t have to take out the freaking garbage, after he works so hard at the house, and he is so ashamed that he relies on you for his money, making you feel doubly guilty. Do yourself a favor and get out of the relationship.

And if you are a man, whining about this, while you are more than willing to go to Hawaii on a two week vacation on her salary, respect her enough to either shut the hell up or go . Seriously, do her a favor and spare her your self-centered narcissistic angst.

Thanks to Laura Kipnis and her polemics “Against Love” and “Its a Female Thing” for clarifying my thought process on this.

And FTR, I am in a relationship. It works because he currently lives 500 miles away from me and is about to be deployed again. So, there’s mine, and there’s his, and there is no possessive “ours” when it comes to material things or money. It works out beautifully and I would so choose the whole Hepburn/Tracy arrangement again and again, separate freaking houses all the time, even if married in the conventional sense.

wow…im gonna have to checkout her books

The comments here show both how far we’ve come, and how far we need to go. I’m betting that those who seem to see no problem at all are younger, maybe under 40. Seaglass is my own age (I’m female), and I suspect he just can’t get over what was imprinted on him all his life. I had trouble discardng it, too.

60-yr. olds grew up in the 50′s and early 60′s, when sex roles semmed set in stone. My few female h.s. classmates who wanted to do things like go to med school were all discouraged by teachers and family, actually told crap like “women can’t be doctors.” Even though there were, of course, women doctors even then. Some did go eventually, though not straight through. It took the women’s movement of the ’70′s to awaken our confidence that we could do such things.

I’ve had two husbands, one slightly older, one 9 years younger. Both wanted to be feminist, wanted to take the egalitarian point of view, expressed the belief that neither sex was better at housework or making money, etc. All of us, in spite of our intentions, had trouble throwing off the deeply ingrained teachings anyway. I know my second husband has deliberately done some household chores badly, just like fictional Raymond, in order to get out of being expected to do them.
Seaglass is having the same trouble, I think, though he sounds like he may have accepted the standards more consciously.
Younger folks, unlike my age group, have grown up mostly with moms working outside the home, and seem to be able to divide up chores with less emotional discomfort.
It’s an ongoing process.