I’m glad to see that “The Glenn Greenwald Dramatic Reenactment of the Health Care Timeline” is the first “Related post” – I came awfully close to linking to it.

Eli –

If you think the bill that’s moving through congress is insufficiently progressive, blame congress, not Obama.

Matt Yglesias

One of the other lessons out of this is that even though a relatively huge amount of money (from my perspective) was raised for the Reps who ‘took the pledge’ – and they took the money – in the end, to be rude, they wouldn’t STAY bought.

Funny how that only seems to work properly when it’s corporate money.

NBC news in Seattle just showed Obama whipping up a crowd with a real barn burning speech … IF NBC / GE is for it, it must suck.
IF he would have fought like this for REAL health CARE reform a year ago, a dead body could have won Teddy’s seat.

check out this poll on my 2 worthless sell outs, murray and cantwell (they’re not worthless if you’re a sell out)

“The poll, conducted by SurveyUSA for KING 5 News and KATU-TV in Portland, finds 42 percent approve of the job Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., is doing, while 45 percent disapprove.
They look at Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., even less favorably. Only 38 percent approve of her job performance while 49 percent disapprove.
The poll of 600 Washington state adults has a margin of error of ± 4.1 percent.
Both senators have seen their approval ratings fall since the start of the year. A similar survey by SurveyUSA in January showed Murray with a 55 percent approval rating while Cantwell was at 52 percent.”

funny how DFH’s are sneered at as marginal, fringe … ummm. O.K., if DFH’s are fringers, who are the 14% who are fed up with patty cant-do-shit?

p.s. will you guys get comment threading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eli!

Dang, some strange fellow got my zed.

Egr!

Aloha, Eli…!

Hey there Eli, sorry I missed you last Friday.

‘Sokay, I’m here every week. Almost.

Hey, remember last year when it seemed like everyone was repeating FDR’s “I agree with you. I want to do it. Now make me do it.” mantra to suggest that despite Obama’s apparent lack of enthusiasm for progressive policies, he simply needed us to push him

Actually this time last year I was comparing Obama to Hoover.

Which makes me wonder what Obama really wanted to do and who he wanted to make him do it.

No one makes Obama do anything. He is the President for chrissakes. This is just who he is and what he believes: Blue Dog, corporatist, status quo. I have said this a million times but, forget the speechifying, look at his actions this way, and he has been amazingly consistent.

Obama is a Republican trapped inside a Democrat body. The guy can’t catch a break.

Why do people on the left in the face of all evidence continue to believe Obama is in any way on their side? Simply because he says so? Gee, the check’s the mail, liberals! I promise not to cum in your mouth!

Lucy’s gonna keep pulling away that football until Charlie Brown wakes up.

That’s because we can’t break their legs. ;)

I’m looking at it as “Who is providing him with the pretext for doing what he wants to do?”

Since what he wants to do is deliver corporate giveaways, then it’s pretty clearly not us.

(There are, sadly, a lot of progressives who are making excuses for him after the fact, but I don’t think a whole lot of them were actually pleading with him to abandon it beforehand.)

Obama is and has always been DLC through and through. Nobody made him do it. Nobody had to.

I have a fleeting twilight zone-like feeling that I’m stuck half-in some other dimension where the raucous enthusiasm Obama is unleashing actually pertains to some sort of worthwhile health care legislation. Like Single Payer or strong PO, etc. But, no.

Of course to the insane chorus frothing and screeching about “Obamacare” it doesn’t matter anyway.

When has Obama said that he’s on the side of the “left”?

Biggest fraud ever marketed to the U.S. public. If this reeeform passes it will be unbearable watching this peacock strutting about.

I was generously willing to give him the doubt as perhaps merely an incredibly weak, cowardly centrist until I saw the full weight of the Obama machine swing into action for the Senate bill in a way that it never came close to doing for the public option.

That settled any remaining doubt once and for all for me.

Stop hanging out at Daily Kos. They will give you that impression. Based on what, I don’t know.

Lemmings come in all different stripes…! ;-)

Obama only cares about voters…voters who will reelect him to a second term. He subscribes to that first rule of corporate management: the first thing you do when you start a new job is begin planning for your next job. He takes the left for granted because his progressive base let’s him. So he’s focusing hard on his conservative wing right now. As long as the veal pen keeps showing up with their pom poms, he will not change that strategy. Why should he.

And, of course, it would have also been nice if he had said to Stupak and Nelson, “No, fuck you, reproductive choice is a key plank of the Democratic platform and I’ll be damned if I’ll let you two assholes rip it out.”

But obviously that was never going to happen either.

And we were worried about the fascism of the Republicans.

If he cared about voters more than corporations, he would have pushed for the public option, which has something like 65% public support.

I don’t believe Obama has convictions that run that deep. Just my take.

And that machine is in high gear today. I commmented earlier:

OFA is whipping DeGette for a yes vote. From Plouffe today in email:

So we’re aiming for 1,530 calls to Rep. DeGette from Denver before offices close this evening. Whether you’ve called your representative before or haven’t yet spoken out on health reform, it’s now time to raise your voice.

Your representative, Rep. Diana DeGette, has stood with the President and fought for reform since last year. But with special interests attacking anyone who pushes for change, it’s important for voters in your district to call and say “thank you for fighting for reform.”

As an active constituent, your voice has particular weight with your representative — so all those who share our commitment to reform are depending on you to speak up. According to our records, you live in Colorado’s 1st congressional district.

I think it’s working because this is the first time I haven’t gotten through to her office.

She’s Chief Deputy Whip, and OFA is Whipping her! Creeps – I know she really is pro-choice and they’re pressuring her to accept the Stupak shit.

?
The “Progressives” didn’t make him do it… the public option. This Sunday, is a public plan healthcare bill going to be on his desk? No. What he means is ‘make him support’ the legislation that they (in Congress, not the Blogosphere) draft in committee and make him sign one. And they didn’t do that. He didn’t want to push it publicly because it was considered by him and his inner circle to be “too left wing”. NO a public plan was not promised by him when he ran for president. Why don’t you look and see now, how he’s being considered a polarizing president by ramming this thing home- a bill which isn’t even very left wing at all. Or even very progressive. This nation is unfortunately, rather right of center, I believe due to the overwhelming influence of fanaticist churches, a very powerful big-business community, and poorly qualified educational institutions who don’t teach our children honest history and politics- but right of center nevertheless- and that means our president wanted the HCR to also be a middle ground move- which *might* play better with middle-ground America.
It’s working.. almost. It is within inches of passing, and he’s the last of how many?Seven presidents to try HCR in 100 years? It deserves some credit. I support the bill, because I support 30 million people getting insurance with my tax dollars more than my tax dollars paying for wars, and I support my president. So If you were putting so much pressure, where are your marches on Washington? Where were your screaming and threats at the town hall meetings last summer? Were you on the other side of the street taking on the TEA klux klan rallies last year? NO. So this is the bill you get. If you don’t like it, join those guys- they’re with you!!! (And you can wear that shirt that says “I’m with stupid —->” and totally not be out of place at all)

Now I can’t claim Ive done any better, I didnt write my congressmen, Larry Kissel, who will vote against the bill (yet) and haven’t formed any pressure groups. But then, I’m not claiming to be the ultimate Cool Liberal Blogger™ speaking for millions of Americans, either.

He wanted to pass something he could proclaim as huge historic victory. He sought the path of least resistance, ie give the big stake holders everything they were looking for, rely on liberals to fold, and at least create the illusion of Senator Snowe “making him of it”. It’s all very Chicago. it’s not even difficult to read.

Ha! The Orange Beam of Death :0)

The status-quo crazification over there is another sad development of late (esp today, yowza!).

Republicans and Blue Dogs are his natural foils. He can veer right trying to be bipartisan. Then he can work with Blue Dogs and remove any progressive ideas that might have been included to get the veal pen initially on board.

Yeah, pretty ugly.

…Or he could have taken the 50 votes that were there in the Senate to pass the PO through reconciliation, and picked up all 60+ of the PO pledgers without breaking a sweat. That seems a lot less resistance-y to me.

He’d still have to work on the Stupak caucus, but that was true either way. At least he’d only have to whip one front instead of two.

Well, he never actually said he was in favor of that, either.

People thought I was crazy for having a bumper sticker that says ‘Get Disappointed By Someone New’, but I think now they understand it a bit better.

Yep, Thanks Eli well put. Just more change we can believe in as long as it doesn’t upset corp. no matter witch one DFC, WS, and now health care. They’re all now at the public feeding trough. It’s a beautiful thing as us little people go down and when he signs this bill the champagne will flow it just won’t be for us.

Everything is on schedule, please move along.

Yes, we can just add women to the list of people Obama’s a fierce advocate for.

The crazification is a lot higher here than it was a few months ago, too.
(Can someone tell us which side of this we’re supposed to be on?)

…first rule of corporate management: the first thing you do when you start a new job is begin planning for your next job.

Heh. The Peter Principle enshrined.

So he’s focusing hard on his conservative wing right now. As long as the veal pen keeps showing up with their pom poms, he will not change that strategy. Why should he.

Because voters are going to kick the Democrats’ asses in 2010 and his in 2012.

Is he actually an advocate for anyone who isn’t a corp-rat?
Just asking ….

In an earlier thread this evening you said:

If this pos passes it’s going to be unbearable watching the peacock in the WH strut about.

Now, you say:

If this reeeform passes it will be unbearable watching this peacock strutting about.

It is offensive.

So If you were putting so much pressure, where are your marches on Washington? Where were your screaming and threats at the town hall meetings last summer? Were you on the other side of the street taking on the TEA klux klan rallies last year?

I indeed WAS in the middle of the screech fests, and worked my guts out for real reform, including preserving the reproductive rights of women.

And for you to baldly state that you haven’t even written your congressman, and SCOLD ME?

Umm… Lemme get back to you on that.

(also replying to TarheelDem@19)

Yeah, my lament was the painful cost of the left blindly believing its hopes, rather than requiring some real evidence before signing away the store.

It’s not like asking for real proof is difficult, or that the call to do so wasn’t made often and forcefully. The warnings were happily and vigorously ignored.

It’s self-destructive behavior, like drug addiction or self-mutilation, and it’s f*cking painful to watch – and even more painful to suffer living through.

What delicate sensibilities.

Kelly, I’ve written all of mine more than once, and I know damned well that at least one of them doesn’t bother with the contents of the e-mails. I suspect they’re going to do whatever the WH wants, so I haven’t written this week.

kevincharlottenc, on the other hand, shouldn’t be telling other people what to do, if hse won’t do it hirself.

Whose side? The People’s side of course :))) Truth, justice and the American Way.

And bacon.

My expectations on outcome probably weren’t much different from yours, just on motivation. But I think we’re in sync now.

*ouch* That had to have left a mark…! ;-)

Not here. (And, despite all the complaints, not at the Great Orange Satan, either. They’ve had a lot of arguments too.)
Ezra Klein and Yglesias, on the other hand ….

Really, the point is I come by my conscience “No” vote by the virtue of tons of time and effort and study, no airmchair bullshit, and I will not be scolded by someone who has not lifted a finger.

On matters concerning racial slurs, I plead guilty to having delicate sensibilities.

Well…clearly it didn’t work out for us, so what do we do now?

My poor mom, I almost bit her head off over the phone today. Told her I’d probably have to drop my med ins because I can’t afford the prem. anymore. “but you can’t afford to be without it”. Well, WTF do I do in this effed-up country, Mom?
“well…and to have the system so upset…” for reals, that’s what she started to say…the “oh, slow down now.” meme.
“well…it NEEDS to be upset, Mother, that’s the point. And the R’s could not have done a better job of handing more money over to the corporations than is happening right now!”

Aaaaaaand, much as I’ve been missing the Lake and all of you fine denizens thereof, my reasons for taking a sabbatical are all too clear again.

Sigh.

FunnyDiva

Oh, and from #39:
I feel like Treebeard: I am on no one’s side because no one is entirely on my side.
There aren’t two bloody sides. Both major parties are clearly on the same side. I’m on the side of doing what’s bloody right and socially responsible for ordinary people fallen on hard times. And I don’t understand why that concept is so bloody difficult for some to grasp.

I was thinking the same thing. Bravo.

This nation is unfortunately, rather right of center

Our elites are right of center. On the issues, such as a public option or Medicare for All, voters and the country favor these. This is an old line that our elites use to whore for corporations, that voters are somehow forcing them to do this when a majority of voters in fact don’t agree with them at all. On the issues, (forget how they self-identify) the country actually tends to be left of center.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m on the side of me first and then the American people second. I have a broken tooth and no way to fix it. :-(

One thing I know – whether HCR (“High Corporate Returns” – Chris Floyd) passes or not, puke outrage at everything and msm amplification thereof will continue and escalate. that continues to be our real problem.

hell, manufacturing – of lizard-brain tropes, alas – hasn’t left the US – it’s never been more robust.

Have you seen this?

Congress has managed to get its approval ratings back down to the pre-election level, with just 17% of voters saying they approve of the job Congress is doing, according to the latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll out later today.

The trend line has been sinking for the past year, after a post-election peak of 31% in February 2009, a month after President Barack Obama took office and the new Congress began. More than three-quarters of voters, 77%, said they disapproved of the job Congress was doing.

In fact, when it comes to Congress, many voters would like to start anew. Asked if they would “replace every single member of Congress, including your own representative” if they could, 50% said “yes” while 47% said “no.”

The voters who supported the clean-slate approach largely didn’t care much about whether the Democrats or Republicans ended up in the majority.

Those that said yes were asked if they would still be game if the Democrats kept the majority in Congress, and 72% said they would, while 22% said they wouldn’t. Asked if they would go along if replacing all lawmakers would put the Republicans in control, 73% said yes and 24% said no.

> But I think we’re in sync now.

I hope it’s just more than you and me. ;-)

I moved back to D.C. in 2006 to help the D’s retake the Congress, precisely to eventually make undeniably clear there’s no meaningful difference (from the standpoint of us chickens) between D and R. So I’m getting what I’ve worked for for years this week.

It still hurts.

But if enough people wake up – and that’s happening – it’ll be worth it.

All predictions of what happens in November are inoperable until the dust around this settles. Give it six weeks after signing or declaration of defeat.

I understand Obama’s strategy although I don’t particularly like it. (1) Hold a “summit” with stakeholders to see where the opposition is going to come from. (2) Cut deals with as many stakeholders as possible to either lower the cost or silence the opposition ads. (3) Test how obstructionist the Republicans will be by letting the whole process play out before going public with your own plan. (4) Do what is necessary to pass a bill that is labeled as “historic”. (5) Start tinkering thereafter to get it closer to healthcare reform.

It seems we might be at step 4.

In order to make Obama do it, we have to make Congress do it. In order to make Congress do it, we have to change the political climate by ensuring that some obstructionist go down; Blanche Lincoln may be the poster girl for this. And ensure that “progressives” get the message that playing Lucy looses financial support and volunteers.

Our local agenda in NC is to get rid of Virginia Foxx and replace her with Billy Kennedy, hold on to Brad Miller, and let Larry Kissell know that you don’t stab ActBlue donors in the back. And get Richard Burr out of the Senate, replaced by Elaine Marshall, Cal Cunningham, or Ken Lewis. If we do that, we are closer to making Obama pass more progressive legislation.

Making him do it has to do with getting legislation on his desk that he has to sign or look foolish vetoing. If we had succeeded despite his deal with the AHA in getting Congress to pass single payer or a public option, he would have been faced with that choice. Folks in Congress know which other folks are sold out and how reliable they are in following Jesse Unruh’s advice. They have a better sense of a whip count than any outsider can muster. And courage never has been a large commodity in Congress from the founding of the Republic. Otherwise Kennedy’s Profiles in Courage would have been a much longer book. And courage is not necessarily remembered by history. How celebrated is Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus Lamar?

Voters also favor heavy taxation for millionaires and billionaires over cutting public school funding and firing teachers. Voters favor increasing the minimum wage. Voters favor freedom of religion and trial by jury. Voters favor equal rights for all. Voters favor the repeal of DADT.

The center right crap is media-driven propaganda.

Congress has managed to get its approval ratings back down to the pre-election level, with just 17% of voters saying they approve of the job Congress is doing

I guess we should take this as more evidence that we are a center right nation. /s

Obama is the “New Coke” of politics. A frenzy whipped up by Madison Ave. the media, and pundits. A marketing campaign, nothing more. Once tasted, you discover it has no flavor, no depth, and it leaves a bitter aftertaste. Kind of makes you appreciate a good old cold glass of water without all the hype.

Well that’s it, we just need to create a lizard-brain trope futures market, create a few derivative instruments, get a fat rating from an Agency (4 a fee, natch!) and sell the whole damn bundle to a State Pension fund. PROFIT!

Thank you. And that’s a big, fat “DUH!” to everyone here, of course.
Except for the “even putting Rs back in control” That just shows once again how Stoopid average America is.

Hugh, you’re correct, it’s the elites and their Media Machine Mouthpieces that are “right of center” while on issues, actual American People do tend to center somewhere on the left. Such clever marketing to divide us…all courtesy of those same elites who profit from the division. May they all rot in a very painful section of Hell.

oldgold: the words “strutting” and “peacock” now have racist connotations?! what am I missing? I’m all but certain sure that come Monday, if this passes, Rahm Emmanuel will be strutting like the little peocock he is, and it will be unbearable for me to see.

FunnyDiva

Right, and the only way we can show them otherwise is by defeating them any way we can. Maybe they’ll wake up, maybe they won’t. Not much we can do to control that but at least we can deliver the message. Primary them, run third parties, vote and donate rethug as a last resort. But I will not support people who so blatantly betray their supporters and the American people.

Asked if they would “replace every single member of Congress, including your own representative” if they could, 50% said “yes” while 47% said “no.”

That is a new milestone…! ;-)

One other observation. The tone of the White House has seemed to change since Plouffe got back.

Aloha, Funny D…! It’s been awhile…! ;-)

Except for the “even putting Rs back in control” That just shows once again how Stoopid average America is.

I read that as the deeply frustrated feeling that it JUST DOESN’T MATTER.

Or, alternatively (if they’re optimistic about who the replacements would be), that they would prefer a Congress controlled by honest Republicans than crooked Democrats. Come to think of it, maybe so would I.

The deals were already made and no doubt many in the Senate expected those deals to be honored. He could have trusted the voters to continue to support public insurance no matter the noise from the big stakeholders from the beginning. But there was no doubt that if he allowed the big health care industries design the bill they were not going to quash it.

I got the same notice to call my rep McCaul…cannot think of more wasted time…his rep. was against it all when we had a local meeting called together by the local med. association where the crowd seemed strongly pro reform and pro-PO…Sure, call McCaul what?

(I should probably amend that to honest, *non-crazy* Republicans. And yes, I’m aware that there probably aren’t enough of them in the political sphere to even fill a congressional majority.)

Peacock is a racial slur? On what race? Parrots?

Some of my best friends are parrots lol.

The NATION isn’t right of center but the government and the media sure is.
they keep “catapulting the propaganada” (Bush) and everyone, like you, keeps repeating it until it becomes fact.

Fox 35 10 PM news – “What happens in Florida could kill the bill”.

The shitstorm thus begins, before the bill passes.

Hey, buddy.
Yeah, missing the old Lake-stead, but my mental health just can’t withstand this.
Hard to stay away with the crisis this imminent, though.
Maybe I’ll try me some Late Late Night later on…

FunnyDiva
y’all can visit me over at Holmesian dot Net if ya want, though!

“(2) Cut deals with as many stakeholders as possible to either lower the cost or silence the opposition ads”

This one pretty much assured a crappy bill.

True dat. True.
“correct as usual, your Majesty!”

FunnyD

I know iglesias said that but we can easily blame both

obama let the blue dogs have their way, in fact encouraged them

Cesar Chavez said, “One person at a time.” Been doin’ it a long time and there’s a lotta people out here.

because it was with “as many stakeholders MONEYED INTERESTS as possible”

As Jane and so many others here have been pointing out for so long.

FunnyD

they weren’t bought, they took the pledge with no promise of money from us, we gave them money as a reward we didn’t dangle it in front of them as a carrot

What evidence do you have that there is any intention to get to step five? All the evidence points in the other direction.

Do what is necessary to pass a bill that is labeled as “historic”.

Labeled by whom? The media? The Democrats and Obama? And historic how? As a truly epic sellout?

Voters may not be following all of the ins and outs of the debate but I think that 17% approval rating is a good indication of their general sentiment on healthcare and many other issues that Obama and the Democrats have screwed up on.

Honestly, what does that mean? Does that mean the passage of a really crappy health care bill is now better because the tone has changed? This is as good as it gets with Obama. He may improve his ability to pass corporate friendly legislation, and really, after the prolonged health care fiasco, he has no where to go but up. But Plouffe isn’t going to make Obama a liberal, and he isn’t going to improve the Senate.

Problem is that Congress doesn’t represent voters in general, they represent the voters in their districts. And their contributors. And all of those things that voters generally favor are not necessarily favored in a specific Congressperson’s district. Members of Congress poll their districts on issues informally, but there is not the frequent scientific polling of individual Congressional districts.

And the Senate composition is such that Republicans and folks like Ben Nelson and Kent Conrad have been elected in small and rural states that have been heavily saturated 24-7 with right-wing talkers on their local stations (with small conservative business owner sponsors). FDR had strong support from farmers. Now, the farm vote tends toward Republicans.

Yes, of course, but “stakeholders” is pol speak for “moneyed interests” doncha know.

still, we could have pushed him but we didn’t. Yeah, we know well who he is but who the fuck are we when we don’t put our bodies behind our beliefs?

We cannot even claim that we responded to the call to make him do it.

What plagues me the most, is that this bill is the Harbinger Of Things To Come. Having ripped off women of a crucial right, and getting away with it, I say there will be no:

-Meaningful Wall Street Reform
-Jobs programs
-ENDA
-DADT
-War Crimes prosecution/accountability

And I think those issues will actually go backwards. What will go forward is more:

-War
-Corporatism

Speak for yourself – see my #44.

Obama wants the Dems to take a bath this fall. It’ll put him in better position for 2012, and he wants this bill to be his milestone first term achievement when he runs. He committed against the public option, and that secured enough promises to make this weekend’s bill passage possible. Everything else was kabuki.

Yep, but assured that a “historic” bill might pass unlike the Clinton bill or the Truman bill. Truman was strongly opposed by the AMA. Johnson was strongly opposed by the AMA. Obama got AMA support (for rejiggering Medicare and Medicaid rates).

If Obama succeeds in getting this POS bill through the Senate, it is no longer a heavy lift “ONE SIXTH OF THE ECONOMY” to make changes here and there in subsequent legislation. The tinkering is where progressives might have more influence than in the original legislation. That certainly was true with both Social Security and Medicare.

fuckno is convinced that he or she is the only one who has ever marched or screeched or lobbied. Kinda sick of the dripping sanctimony personally.

The only ones of those that I might disagree with are DADT (partly because he needs to do *something* to pretend not to hate gays, but mainly because there’s no corporate constituency against it) and the jobs program.

Now, I’m not saying that it’ll be a *good* jobs program, or that it won’t be mostly corporate tax cuts, but I do think there will be a corporate giveaway in the guise of a jobs program at some point.

Obama could have gotten a PO instantly if he wanted.

I fully blame him.

What I’d like is evidence of the activities that s/he advocates. I do so routinely.

Oh, I understand that fine. It wasn’t you I was aiming at, anyway.

I don’t disagree with you at all. Crumbs at best. Nothing real.

Sorry, I wasn’t aiming at you, and should have taken a bit more care in that regard.

a movement of one Kelly ain’t much of a movement. I applaud your personal efforts, but where was the Peace movement, the left activist organizations?

I’m being chaperoned, which leaves me at a disadvantage.

But he did get just enough visibility on the public option to be able to blame Congress in the public eye. He stayed out of that fray until that perception was well registered.

I understand where fuckno is coming from. I personally tried to get all liberals to walk out of work for one week and shut the economy down during the Bush years as a way to get their attention and couldn’t get the time of day but for him or her to come here day after day and pretend that the rest of us are a bunch of fat, apathetic keyboard commandos, having no idea of who we are really, is too much. It wears very thin.

I marched, I was beaten up by security services, – you don’t know )*)<(&, 140-150 IQ.

Something that makes the paper burst into flames when it’s written down? *g*

But, Obama is so much easier to blame. As you know, everything that is wrong with Texas is Ann Richards fault for losing . . . .

Yep, labeled by the media.

Thereafter all the tinkering with the bill is no longer “historic”. Adding a public option is not “historic”, it’s just making a popular fix. Accelerating the protection of people with pre-existing conditions from 2014 to 2011 is not historic, it’s just making a popular fix. And both of these will be popular. The public gets what the public option is about. Making the public option the ability of folks to buy into Medicare at cost, which is popular, is just making a popular fix. All of these can be easily framed as a healthcare agenda for the 2010 elections and used to hammer against the repeal it now frame. And get into Congress some folks who are committed to actually seeing these into law.

I would not assume that 17% approval rating for Congressional Democrats is set in stone until six weeks after the denouement of this healthcare push–pass or fail.

Save the social security and medicare talking points for someone who doesn’t understand the difference between social insurance and an individual mandate to buy a private corporations crappy product(I’m, personally, not even convinced you buy this one). Never mind tinkering down the road, this bill tinkers, and it’s a stop gap on the way to real reform, which IS public insurance. Obama’s plan is a small regulatory approach, NOT a social entitlement approach, which is what Medicare and Social Security represent, hence their lasting power and public support. If Obama wanted to take a programmatic approach to health care he would have EXPANDED the Medicare program. See, we already have a behemoth social insurance program to “tinker” with, or at the very least he would have lobbied Congress to create a public insurance plan that mirrors Medicare. That’s not what he did. He choose the small regulatory approach, and this country does not have the political capacity to effectively regulate insurance markets, and I will bet his “historic” approach will be wiped out by the first President that expands Medicare.

I agree… The bulk of the Brass seems to have finally gotten behind the repeal of DADT…! However, it’s still a tough row to hoe…! And, there’s still that pesky; ‘devil in the details’ thingy…! 8-(

Congress doesn’t represent voters in general, they represent the voters in their districts. And their contributors.

Congress doesn’t represent the voters, that’s the f*cking problem here. They represent the corp-rats who give them money and other stuff; the voters can’t provide enough to even get noticed. (When was the last time your congresscritter had a dinner that wasn’t at least three figures between the dollar sign and the cent sign, just to get through the door?)

Provide some sort of evidence, anything since 200 would do.

Otherwise, without practicing what you preach, your credibility is suspect.

Just remind the conservatives that it would mean more gays would get shot at and blown up in hellholes like Afghanistan, and I’m sure they’d come around in no time.

The media is state media. Just look at the Sun. morning political shows. Do they reflect the last election? How long will it take for US to wake up. During the impeach bill clinton extravaganza, we were told the media had to make money so it was impeach bill for a blow job 24/7. Well when Jeff Gannon was slipping out of the WH press corpse up into the WH for over night visits, suddenly , the media was all silent. They didn’t have to make money any more.

The public is not informed because we have state media. It is for and by the corporations who make a lot of money off of health care. Let US please not blame the victims for the perps crimes.That only further divides US and plays into the hands of those who really control this country…and it is not the WH or the congress.

No problem. It’s Friday, anyway, and I have a lot of chocolate in my fridge, and I don’t have to deal with work stuff for two whole days (not that I wouldn’t, if I could extract the stuff from the computer – there’s some databases that need cleaning up).

Yer evil, Dood…! ;-)

You are ubiquitous. Kelly!!
You have more energy than I. S’okay, of course.
Inspirational.

I’ll just opine a bit;

Sheehan’s testimony has riled up the Dutch, and put the argument on the defensive, rather than the offensive it had before. Also, I’ve noticed that the terms have changed.

Now it’s all “homosexuals,” the clinical term, rather than “gays,” the cultural term that is dominating the arguments in DADT and in general.

It’s getting worse than it was.

The only ones of those that I might disagree with are DADT (partly because he needs to do *something* to pretend not to hate gays

Not so sure about this. Obama deferred on this for a year, saying he wanted to go through Congress. Then just as Congress looked like it was ready to move on it, Gates announces a year long study on DADT kicking any decision well past the November election. Of course by then there will be a much more Republican Congress. Obama never pushed on this and I don’t seem him pushing on it now, or in a year.

I suggest that our focus should be less on President Obama’s reasons for disregarding progressives and more on why our strategy as progressives has not been a winning one. I am very sorry for those who worked hard to make this a good bill. I myself am not a good strategist so I don’t presume to know the answers, but one question comes to mind:

Has it hurt us that there are many progressives-in-name-only? Many people call themselves progressive but will support any Democratic president who knows how to win elections, no matter how conservative the policies.

I was born in Poland, lived in Germany, went back to Poland in 1980, marched with Solidarity, suffered through martial Law. Spend two weeks in lock up, – nothing pleasant to report.

140-150 I.Q.? What’s that supposed to mean? Dig how smart you are? Okay. I’ve taken three tests. The average came out to 154.66. Good enough for you?

Well when Jeff Gannon was slipping out of the WH press corpse up into the WH for over night visits, suddenly , the media was all silent. They didn’t have to make money any more.

Ex-fucking-zactly. I have been saying that for years. My very first post at FDL:

Why am I so positive that propping up Republicans is more important than ratings? Two words: Jeff Gannon. The Bush administration allowed a right-wing male prostitute with no journalistic credentials into the White House press corps. Said male prostitute posted explicit pictures and, ah, “client” testimonials on his website, made numerous solo visits to the White House, some of them possibly overnight, and no-one cared. And more recently, the #3 guy at the CIA was indicted in a prostitution scandal, and no-one cared. When was the last time the media voluntarily passed up a good sex scandal when Republicans weren’t involved? No, ratings are simply an excuse to flood the zone with frivolous distractions, blotting out stories that are inconvenient, and pumping up any Democratic missteps like the Clinton-Obama fracas.

That’s your IQ i’m quoting, Margret.

I wouldn’t be totally surprised if it didn’t happen. But I wouldn’t be totally surprised if it did, either.

I have seen zero evidence that Democrats are going to come back and revisit healthcare. And with Republican gains in November who are these people who are going to be making “popular” fixes. I mean a lot these fixes would be popular now.

As for the 17% approval rating changing that would be predicated on the Obama and the Democrats actually accomplishing something. A sellout healthcare bill hardly qualifies and I see them doing little else substantive, at least in a positive sense before the election or perhaps ever.

Why do you give me such a hard time? Wanna know.

You’re a common bully. You come here day after day and badmouth the rest of us and make really broad and unsubstantiated accusations. You have issues. Even your pseudonym is belligerent. I’ve tried to be nice but you accuse people of the very same thing you are guilty of.

demi, I have not addressed you in ages now. I don’t know what you are referring to.

Why do you give other people, what are Nice and Smart a hard time?

Plouffe is going to improve the Senate because he will be strategizing the defeat of Republicans and the preservation of Democrats in the Senate.

If Bill Halter can defeat Blanche Lincoln in the primary, the White House will campaign for him, preserving that seat for Democrats. The White House will campaign for Blumenthal in Connecticut, preserving that seat for Democrats. The White House will campaign for the opponent to Richard Burr in NC, all with better progressive credentials than Kay Hagan. The White House might even consider going after Jim DeMint, making this his Waterloo. The White House will probably succeed is saving Harry Reid’s race. If Rubio wins over Crist in Florida, the White House will pull out the stops to elect Kendrick Meek. All of this moves the Congress in a more progressive direction.

In terms of the big pendulum swing, Obama is presidentially in Nixon’s position relative to conservative ideology (Nixon’s followed a perceived failure of liberalism). Nixon looks like a liberal sellout to today’s conservatives for some of the same political reasons Obama looks like a corporatist sellout to progressives. But Nixon was a known quantity. We can only see what Obama is about as he gains more support in Congress. And a Congress stacked with Blue Dogs and Conservadems is like Nixon’s Congress stacked with liberal and moderate Republicans. Of course, Nixon diddled about ending the war while not ending the war. Of course, Nixon implemented revenue sharing with states, created the EPA, and went to China. Of course, Nixon played the games he knew to reduce Democratic power in Congress.

If Obama really in his political make-up is progressive, Plouffe will enable that to emerge. If he isn’t we will know by 2012 without a doubt.

fuckno apparently has nothing better to do than pick on people and I notice he picks on women much more than anybody else.

If I had a printer I would tape that (Funny Treebeard) to my fridge.

According to him I just stay in my kitchen naked and bake cookies.
Well, not how it is, but it could be worse.
Sorry for the vision.
Not really. Again, could be worse. :)

jane has a new post up

*sigh* i’m gonna need stronger chocolate

Veal pen progressives must have know when Obama committed against the public option in negotiations as early as last spring. The point was always to support Obama, regardless of policy.

((((Suz!))))

I thought you didn’t do chocolate.
I gotta keep up.

“If Bill Halter can defeat Blanche Lincoln in the primary, the White House will campaign for him.”

Yeah, so? So Democrats may hold a Senate seat. I don’t think Halter is a liberal. Really, I don’t understand your point. It will take years to make the Senate more obviously liberal than it is today. The House has actually passed some pretty good bills. They are stacked up collecting dust in the Senate.

“If Obama really in his political make-up is progressive, Plouffe will enable that to emerge. If he isn’t we will know by 2012 without a doubt.”

Oh dear…no comment.

Hey Oldgold: I don’t know anything about peacocks?….but I sure feel bad for the black people; they got screwed again. They thought they were getting Jackie Robinson, but instead they got a Step-and-Fetch-it for Big Pharma. There won’t be another “black” president in a long time, sad to say….maybe Jesse Jackson was right?

Here, Margret – your IQ by you. Now you just need to get those memory banks to fall in line.

http://firedoglake.com/2010/03/09/marco-rubio-helpfully-illustrates-the-vapidity-of-todays-republican-party/#comment-2098812

There’s a guy on my train who thinks like you. He was telling us about taking the Mensa mail-in test. He looked at the questions, decided they allowed too much time, cut it in half, and was complaining because they scored him at 138. I could have told him what he did wrong, but he’s a pr*ck and not worth it. (I was in Mensa for a year, based on my SAT scores. It’s not worth it.)

70 percent dark? Lindt ‘Touch of Sea Salt’ dark? Republic of Cacao varietal?

Ah, here we are: Davis [CA] Candy House filled chocolates. (Liqueur flavored fillings. Really good stuff.)

You’re not nice.

I will bet his “historic” approach will be wiped out by the first President that expands Medicare.

And given the agreeable members of Congress, Obama might even be that president.

Or the tinkering might result in stricter regulations, such as exist in Netherlands, Germany, and Switzerland.

A lot depends on how the politics evolves, and progressive can be actors rather than bystanders in that evolution. Beginning with watching the creation of the implementing regulations like a hawk so that we do not give back through the drafting of HHS regulations what little we get in this bill. And framing further reform items to get out the vote and create a legislative mandate to get them. It is an open question as to whether pushing for single-payer will turn out the vote in 2010 should the bill fail.

The current bill is a cheap knockoff of Romneycare. There’s little doubt about that. But Massachusetts is beginning to tinker with Romneycare to move it toward lowering healthcare costs without giving up coverage.

If they don’t voluntarily, events and trends will cause them to. But it is likely not going to be large efforts but a tinkering here and there between now and 2014. Unless the political winds shift more than they have thus far.

Yeah, I know all about Romney Care. The insurers are helping develop plans to lower costs. LOL. they shut the state advocacy group for single payer out of the deliberations today.

“And given the agreeable members of Congress, Obama might even be that president.”

Given this plan doesn’t kick in until 2014, I’m guessing no.

“Or the tinkering might result in stricter regulations, such as exist in Netherlands, Germany, and Switzerland.:

Again, we are not Europe. We don’t have the political capacity for that kind of regulatory oversight. Not gonna happen.

Frankly, I’m going to continue focusing my efforts on expanding Medicare and getting my state to dump RomneyCare for state single payer. But I wonder which is more important to you, that we someday have universal public insurance or that this legislation be remembered for all time as “historical”? Because if they wanted historical they need to pass some kind of social insurance program.

Oooh, that smarts.

SMARTS, get it? lol

How about we all lighten up a little? we’re all on the same side here, generally speaking. The enemy is out there.

NO a public plan was not promised by him when he ran for president

That is an absolute lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cET2OSbtj0g

(5) Start tinkering thereafter to get it closer to healthcare reform.

This is in Easter Bunny, Unicorn, Leprechaun, fantasy land.

Obama’s strategy was to put together behind the scenes a plan that was 180 degrees from what he campaigned on. I literally can’t remember seeing such a brazen act of betrayal from a Democrat. Despicable.

The tone of the White House has seemed to change since Plouffe got back.

None of us here give a fuck about tone or horseshit speeches anymore.

You want to get Obama’s attention, show him we are serious about letting him and the dems lose the next two elections. The only way grass root progressives are going to get respect is by earning it.

Kelly, I got the same email only telling me that 1297 people were needed to call Keith Ellison’s office.

So I called and asked what dictionary Mr Ellison was using because after he said:

“I will not vote for any healthcare that does not include a public option. I will not do it, that’s a guaranteed no vote and I will not be dissuaded from that.”

it was clear to me I needed the new definitions for:

not,guarenteed, no and dissuaded.

I was advised that my comments would be passed along, so I asked if she would guarentee that and by whose definition, mine or Washington’s?

methinks we all forget the real power of lbj. his mastery of the congress relied upon blackmail. and it was edgar who delivered the goods to him in that era.

since then, the eavesdropping of the members of the congress has been institutionalized, legalized even. echelon and its successor programs have allowed the executive branch to data mine the “affairs”, romantic and financial, of anyone that it cares to target.

oddly, the congress has countenanced what i consider to be illicit scrutiny under the threat of being soft on terrorism.

and now, i think that the congressional submission to nsa wiretapping, has resulted in their subservience to the defacto emperor. he has the results of those nsa taps. and this allows him to put the genitals of every congressman within the confines of the vise.

i assert that there are virtually no congresspersons with no litigable skeletons. or no embarrassing skeletons.

and there is always this consideration…wayne madsen[you may not like him]asserts that barry soetero has long been an intelligence agency asset. and the way his regime is unfolding, i find it difficult to argue with wayne.

if wayne is accurate, this would make barry the last in the line of intell agency assets. and the intell agencies never work for the serfs[aka the citizenry].

censor that you moderators!

The whole argument of making Obama “do it” is crap. It places the responsibility on us to masses. Due to the fact that we have a representative democracy, we can not do much other than pointlessly pressure politicians via their offices and answering machines. We unfortunately all have our own individual views and cancel ourselves out for the most part.

The only one who gets listened to are the “monied interests”. They are the only ones who can force a politician to do anything.

The sooner we realize that our democracy has been bought and paid for by the corporations, the better off we will be. Obama will not listen to anyone other than his banker friends.

It wasn’t my fault that he didn’t pass a progressive bill, it was his own doing and he should be accountable for that. It is sad, but I admit whatever right wing reactionary moron that gets elected in 2012 to replace him will be the Democrats just dessert for their betrayal this weekend.

That’s right Democrat lemmings, rally around Obama, cheer him on. Applaud that crap bill that is being passed. It isn’t an accomplishment, but a dagger in the back of any progressive.

I won’t be party to the lesser of two evils argument that will theoretically be used to encourage progressives to vote for Obama in 2012. He sold his soul to the corporations, let them save him.

Its True. Thats what Sen. Lieberman stated seeing progressive wrath. Just a word from executive branch he would have gone along thats what he implied.

I think Executive branch & Senate democrats are totally compromised with Pharma, AHIP & Wall Street lobbies. Public Option speeches during elections which captured my imagination of cost-control now seem to be just a ploy to get the bill moving through reluctant congress which stood to lose a lot and they will lose big time for sure in next elections irrespective of number of election mercernary people they get from Pharma and AHIP. Whole group of democrats in congress will be routed in next elections and they will watch from side-lines sadly with guilt after a decade when the next batch of AHIP executives will wreak havoc on their own grand-children besides other countrymen with Premium increases and mandates since most of the congress members are not super rich.

Please do vote but for a party which does not take corporate donations as a badge of honor. Middle class and Poor class pay more than 50% of their income in taxes both direct and indirect taxes(sales taxes, fuel taxes, rent etc) and none of their hardships, feelings do not get across even though they are 90% of the population. Your voting is the only way you can reduce middle class and lower class direct and indirect taxes and spend it on your familys well-being without affecting rest of the economy.

My suggestion for you to consider is never ever contribute money or time or vote to a party which accepts corporate donations. You will never be counted by your rep as significant in that immoral race. Vote to a party like GREEN party which does not accept corporate contributions as party charter. You will make a difference, your conscience will be clear that you did the right thing and thats what I will be doing from now on.

Yes. Thats why I decided the best way to exercise my vote is to vote for a party which does not accept corporate contributions as a party charter and I am really hoping this election cycle there are few GREEN reps and atleast one GREEN party senator.

This will change the behavior of congress for good and hopefully instead of a race to the bottom by congress members to please parasitic corporations at the expense of American people we will have a race to the top where Americans are taken care of first with progressive taxes instead of current regressive taxes with indirect taxes like sales taxes, fuel taxes, phone taxes etc affecting middle class and poor classes more as percentage of their pay checks.

Apparently during FDR’s day our leaders still had a thread of integrity. That day is long gone now. I don’t see things getting any better until the Republicans are elected again and we hit a deeper bottom.

It’s more than just politics, it’s Obama’s personality and psychological makeup. As someone who lived in Illinois when he was a state senator (where legislators have a unique option of voting either ‘Ay’, ‘Nay’ or ‘Abstain’ on every bill), Obama voted ‘Abstain’ 229 times: basically, he steps away from a fracas and says “I’m not going to get involved. You guys fight it out among yourselves.”

As far as any questions about Obama and a “secret deal” behind the curtains, read what should be front page news across the country: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

We were “bamboozled.” Remember Obama using that reference during the campaign? Groups like MoveOn, unions, and many others joined in — even though they knew this was a Sham: http://seaclearly.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/moveon-org-sells-us-out-again/

And sadly, FDR never said any such thing. Every progressive policy that has ever come to fruition happened after all other alternatives were tried and found wanting, not because it was something the DFHs wanted.

Individual Mandates Bootstrap the Homeless

Thank You, New Majority

Since when did progressives “make Obama do” anything? They could still do exactly that by walking out on the Democrats’ vote right now unless they got any of the following:

Robust Public Option
Medicare Expansion
Drug Reimportation
End to ERISA
End to Insurance Industry Anti-Trust Exemption
Insurance Industry Oversight Agency
Drug Price Negotiation

et al.

They got not one god damn one of these things because progessives were never willing to say no to this bill.

We need to start primarying Dems in safe districts that don’t vote progressively enough, period. It’s the only way to get them to “sack up.”

We should call Obama what he is, and that is a corporatist. Its nothing short of government corporate collusion, whereby the government seeks out reform of the particularly egregious aspects of corporate domination and makes a deal that appears to solve the problem, but actually works to the further benefit of their interests without addressing the root of the problem. HCR will work exactly like the credit card reform bill, as any potential corporate deficits created by reform is assumed by the taxpayer. So instead of paying twice the amount for half the coverage (as the rest of the world) we will pay three times as much for a quarter the coverage, when the additional taxes are added on. The public option alternative, of course, would have circumvented corporate dominance by forcing the insurance companies to compete with each other and a government run program.

There is no other conclusion possible. Obama is plane and simple, a corporatist. There was a choice. He could have reformed health with the public option. That would have circumvented the insurance monopoly, and solved the root problem. He chose to side with the insurance monopoly and put the burden of reforms onto the taxpayer’s back. Like the credit card “reform” bill and now HCR, this is how a corporatist “solves” problems.

sorry bout that, but i thought the first post got eaten so wrote another abbreviated post.