House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has made a deal with Rep. Bart Stupak in order to secure his vote and that of other anti-choice Democrats for the health care bill, which is scheduled to be voted on this Sunday. According to a member of Congress who was briefed on the matter, Pelosi has agreed to let Stupak have a vote on his amendment, which instructs the Senate to substitute his language for the Senate language on abortion.
FDL has obtained a copy of the concurrent resolution (PDF1, PDF2, PDF3, PDF4), which includes cosponsors Marion Berry, Sanford Bishop, Joseph Cao, Kathy Dahlkemper, Steve Driehaus, Marcy Kaptur, Dan Lipinski, Alan Mollohan, and Nick Rahall. A second source confirms that with the exception of Cao, these are the members of Congress who are still on the fence. Cao is still considered a firm “no” vote.
The deal calls for Stupak to have a vote on his amendment either before or after the House votes to confirm the Senate bill on Sunday. Stupak is confident that he has the votes to pass the measure, and is happy to have the vote after the House passes the Senate bill. He believes that by using a “tie bar” approach, his amendment would be “tied” to the health care bill — which would require just 51 votes in the Senate.
Pro-choice members of the House, however, are demanding that the vote on the Concurrent Resolution happen before the House confirms the Senate bill. If in fact it passes, they plan to vote against confirming the Senate bill. They want Rep. Diana Degette to release the names of the 41 cosigners to her letter who pledged to vote against any bill that restricts a woman’s right to choose, and they are angry that the White House has been whipping to push through the Stupak deal.
“It is outrageous that a Democratic Speaker, a Democratic Majority Leader and a Democratic President should support rolling back women’s reproductive rights,” says one member of the group.
Alan Grayson, who voted against the Stupak Amendment when it went before the House last October, now has 80 cosponsors for his public option amendment, but has not been granted a floor vote.
“I wonder why we can have a vote to please the anti-choice clique, and we can’t have a vote on the public option,” he says.
Dave Dayen has an analysis of what’s included in the amendment.
Text of the Concurrent Resolution below the jump
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
MR. STUPAK (for himself, MR. Berry, Mr. Bishop of Georgia, Mr. Cao, Ms. Dahlkemper, Mr. Driehaus, Ms. Kaptur, Mr. Lipinski, Mr. Mollohan, and Mr. Rahall) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the committee on ________
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Correcting the enrollment of H.R. 3590
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring) That in the enrollment of the bill H.R. 3590, the Clerk of the House of Representatives shall make the following corrections:
(1) In the section 1303 amended by section 10104(c) of the bill –
(A) in the section heading, insert “RELATING TO COVERAGE OF ABORTION SERVICES” after “SPECIAL RULES”; AND
(B) strike subsection (a) and all of subsection (b) that precedes paragraph (4) and insert the following:
“(a) IN GENERAL — Nothing in this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) shall be construed to require any health plan to provide coverage of abortion services or allow the Secretary or any other person or entity implementing this Act (or amendment) to require coverage of such services.
“(b) LIMITATION ON ABORTION FUNDING –
“(1) IN GENERAL — None of the funds authorized or appropriated by this Act (or an amendment made by this Act), including credits under section 36B of the Internal Revenue Service Code of 1986, shall be expected for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from the physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, or unless the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.
“(2) OPTION TO PURCHASE SEPARATE COVERAGE OR PLAN _- Subject to paragraph (1), nothing in this subsection shall be construed as prohibiting any non-Federal entity (including an individual or a State orlocal government) from purchasing separate coverage for abortions for which funding is prohibited under this subsection, or a plan that inclues such abortions, so long as such coverage or plan is not purchased using the non-Federal funds required to receive a Federal payment, including a preminum payment required for the qualified health plan towards whith the credit described in paragraph (1) is applied or a State’s or locality’s contribution of Medicaid matching funds.
“(3) OPTION TO OFFER COVERAGE OR PLAN — Subject to paragraph (1), nothing in this subsection shall restrict any non-Federal health insurance insurer offering a qualified health plan from offering separate coverage for abortions for which funding is prohibited under this subsection, or a plan that includes such abortions for which funding is prohibited under this subsection, or a plan that inclue3s such abortions, so long as any such insurer that offers a qualified health plan through any Exchange that includes coverage for abortions for which funding is prohibited under this subsection also offers a qualified health plan through the Exchange that is identical in every respect except it does not cover such abortions.”
(2) In subsection (a) of the section 1334 added by section 10104(q) of the bill, strike paragraph (6) and redesignate paragraph (7) as paragraph (6).



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So… Why can this be used to restore Stupak but not the public option?
Well Democrats — thanks, but no thanks.
And choice gets a good old congressional swirly….
Everybody we can muster needs to be on the MSM screaming this.
I think there are a lot of congresscritters who will be very surprised next fall, when many of their D constituents vote against them.
I’d change my registration to something like Socialist, but it isn’t available in CA. I’m stuck with D, Green, or Peace-and-Freedom, and I understand, from family who have left the latter two, that they aren’t worth much either.
Because it’s just the hippies that want the public option. Oh and support a woman’s right to choose.
I KNEW IT!
When I got that OFA email today, whipping on DeGette, I KNEW something creepy was going on.
I am beyond frustrated!
That’s why I always register Independent. Parties are too much like team sports.
Well, now we know why Pelosi had a behind-closed-doors meeting with Dem women the other day…
If only there WERE death panels in the bill. Would even that be enough to stop it?
Checkmate! This fascist bill is going down.
WTF kinda noise is that…?
It’s been years since I had one of those. Rather not go there right now. Life’s had enough right now.
I predict literally a Category 5 hurricane will hit Washington, D.C. this fall if they pass this Mammon bill over what’s best for the people.
“I wonder why we can have a vote to please anti-choice clique, and we can’t have a vote on the public option” he says.
He wonders why? Maybe because you all already folded.
Christ, two glasses of (real) wine, and getting ready for dinner out, and what do I have to toast to tonight?
The Democrats (including Her Vaunted Most-Liberal Majestyhood, the Entitled and Very Wealthy San Franciscan Nancy Pelosi) are screwing womens’ rights to get this legislative atrocity passed.
Can Speaker Pelosi be muted as a result of this? Where is the “Mute” button for Speaker Pelosi?
Also, what is the name of the third party that people who actually have paid some attention to this, from the left, can participate in now? Which third party is going to forward candidates given that the Democrats are obviously defunct as a platform for anyone to the left of Joseph Lieberman?
That means that no insurance coverage, public or private will be allowed to cover abortion services if the patient is receiving any federal help to buy insurance. In other words, poor woman? S.O.L.
And now add women to those already thrown under the bus by Obama. They’re going to need a bigger bus.
Problem… they cannot “change” the Senate Abortion language through reconciliation…
Even if they had the votes to pass it…
To be sure I understand correctly, now that Pelosi has fucked women over by making this deal with Stupak, the big question now is whether a vote on his assholish crap will happen before or after the House votes on the larger bill?
If it’s before, pro-choice members now in the “yes” column will bolt.
If it’s after, women’s reproductive rights are fucked over more than they already would have been.
can you post part of that email?
Depends on the decision of the Senate Parliamentarian.
I am a trained Paralegal, and, it was a rhetorical question, M’dear…! *g*
This is not in Reconciliation. It’s a Concurring Resolution.
Just like before Roe V. Wade. A woman’s right of choice was reserved only for rich white women.
i think it applies if ya ever got a tax refund from the feds…. or took part in cash for clunkers… if the woman has ever received money from the feds, she must pay out of her pocket for a legal medical procedure
Ah! Sorry. My irony detector has been off all week. Sumimasen.
Yep – let me dig it back up. Stand by.
I’m in CA; ‘independent’ screws up the choices in the primary. There are more conservative parties than liberalish ones, too.
What part of Revolt(ing) do they not understand?
I think it’s a super-seized Greyhound bus. Or maybe one of those land-trains they allow in Utah.
Right? I think it may be time to bring on the train in fact.
Just like Nixon going to China.
It takes Obama and Pelosi to do what Henry Hyde could only dream of.
What it means is that money, being fungible, will not cover reproductive freedom in any way. In other words, any company offering a plan that falls under the dark shadow of this legislation once enacted cannot even offer an alternative plan that would provide payment that creates reproductive freedom.
In other words, Speaker Pelosi (and Obama too!) are performing an act that I won’t mention, a submissive sexual act degrading in the eyes of some, on Bart Stupak, in order to get something passed, because they are self-serving politicians who need the New York Times and CNN to declare “Mission Accomplished” on partisan Democrat health care reform during an election year more than they need a woman’s right to choose protected, or anything else valuable to anyone, as well.
From an earlier comment I made
OFA is whipping DeGette for a yes vote. From Plouffe today in email:
I think it’s working because this is the first time I haven’t gotten through to her office.
She’s Chief Deputy Whip, and OFA is Whipping her! Creeps – I know she really is pro-choice and they’re pressuring her to accept the Stupak shit.
Nancy Pelosi pulls up the ladder: “Sorry, sisters, I’ve got mine!”
Hey! And The Fucking Nation magazine endorsed it!!!!
It does here too but the problem is that I just can’t stand partisans of any stripe. They treat it like it’s a game and the only goal is to win the game and do it without acknowledging that the game pieces are actual lives, real and true.
Ah, time to roll out the ‘Highball Party’:
If they won’t lead, follow or get out of the way, then
drive the f*cking train over them. Highball!
Yeah, my irony has been unplugged for weeks!
I wonder how Catholic Poster Boy Bart Stupak feels about Pedophelia? Think he checked in with the Vatican and Pope Nazi to make sure that federal funding for STD testing for raped parishoners was not included either?
I mean after all, “God” clearly wants those male, Catholic zygotes to be taken care of in utero, once they’re out being done by a Priest, they’re on their own in every way imaginable.
Comrade,
Herein lies the problem with elective “government”. These are the things citizens should be voting on, not “elected” pols.
Just wait until Obama begins tacking SS reeeeform.
Yeah, they are in the same category of Obamabot as MoveOn.org in my estimation.
Okay, I just read dday’s post. This thingy only works for changing minor technical details. Like completely eliminating insurance coverage for abortions.
Exactly! Rich white women like Nanci Pelosi, and her family!
No federal highways for you, ladies!
Good question, ES…! Btw, did ya fix my diary earlier…? I’d inadvertently posted another rather large Utube…! ;-)
Wonder if these restrictions are going to apply also to employer plans that benefit from tax breaks or any other federal subsidies. That would lock out choice completely. Who needs the supreme court.
Have a really nice dinner. Eat. Don’t talk.
Do folks understand now why we had to let the California primary filing deadline slip past before these last deals got made?
The Nation sold out decades ago dude.
It’s a forgone conclusion that none of the good Catholic females in Pelosi’s family will ever want for abortion services of the best kind. Bitch.
Thanks. I think your take is spot on.
Oh yes. The timing fuckery was quite apparent once you pointed it out.
Folks, poor women don’t have access to insurance coverage now. Medicaid does not cover elective abortion. Which brings me back to a question I have asked before; what percentage of elective abortions over the past couple of years actually have been covered by insurance?
Hey there, CT. Wasn’t me…. looks good though.
They’re far, far worse. For decades, they have positioned themselves as The Eminent Journal of Elite Option for angry feminists who want to preach abortion rights.
Trouble is, when their fucking party is threatened in terms office, they don’t have any real principles.
The next time their (rich, white, entitled) editor Katrina vanden Heuvel gets on TV and starts ranting about the “stale, male, pale” party and how it isn’t down with reproductive rights, The Nation’s endorsement of Bart Stupak and Self-Serving Partisan Corruption should be folded neatly, tucked in (overpriced) shoe, and set on fire.
Coat Hangers, anyone…? 8-(
This language doesn’t just restrict insurance paid abortion, as has been pointed out, it means that a woman who receives ANY federal support or services can’t use her own money for an abortion on the theory that money is fungible.
PolitiFact has an article about the tune Obama was singing back when he was running for the Democratic nomination:
There are also some video excerpts of the speech on YouTube.
I plan on eating well, smiling, drinking, and laughing liberally. In all honesty. However, I recognize the evil of what is going on in Washington, DC, amongst the “democrats” or whatever the hell these misbegotten offspring of filthy plutocrats, one of the worst self-serving and corrupt political ruling classes in the Western World, are doing, and I won’t forget this moment in history, no, no, no, not at all. Today was the day when we all realized that the Great Democratic Party is just another fucking tick stuck in the forearm of society sucking blood greedily and hoping nobody puts a match to its ass.
I refute your position utterly; poor women were already fucked so why not let them stay fucked?
And as regards percentages, that is meaningless. Women who need actual care, from ectopic pregnancies, etc. that do have coverage have been spared the costs which often exceed $10,000.
I maintain, yours is a vile position when it comes to caring for women.
I don’t. Please forgive me. Or, explain, please?
Of course not. They are partisans and to a partisan only the game matters.
Oh no no nono no! Health care payment problems … in the eyes of “Speaker” Pelosi … are
(Imelda Marcos)FOR LITTLE PEOPLE(/Imelda Marcos)
I went over to Kos to see if they could still justify the bill with this.
They’re blaming Lynch for this because apparently they were one short and he wouldn’t flip.
Fuck Kossacks.
I did see a few who were sickened by the site saying that, so to all you outcast former Kossacks,
Welcome to the Lake, where the real left is.
Didn’t the Senate Parliamentarian already say that the first bill has to be signed into law, before votes can begin on the reconciliation sidecar?
How come it seems like everyone is proceeding along like that did not happen???
Mahalo…! ;-)
Eat well. Laugh easily. I think people have figured it out before today, tho.
Whatever the case, here is another Seymour who understands that their class ties and prerogatives trump any “value system” in their editorial writing. They’re the latest and Newest New Republic.
It won’t work like that the way Pelosi is ginning it up with Deem and pass.
Obama is a fierce advocate for women’s choice.
We’re learning that there are more positions than are covered in the Kama Sutra.
Breakage is called for.
Indeed, if only there was a real socialist party left in this country.
My life for a fifth international.
I don’t think anyone ever wanted to allow that.
Aren’t the Democrats calling bullshit on that? Yesterday was pretty crappy for me so I’m behind the news but I thought I’d read that.
It is still true that as things are, poor women do not have insurance coverage for abortion. Ergo, talking as if this bill takes away a right from them they don’t have is nonsense. The measure of the actual impact HCR would have on abortion rights has a lot to do with what proportion of elective abortions currently are covered by insurance. The actual impact. Seems to me the actual impact is a pretty important consideration here.
I am confused. Even if the “deem and pass” mean that Obama still has to sign the original package first?
Hi hun!
Indeed people have figured this out before today. I’m working on an Art Saturday Opera Rant, and I remembered “Brindisi” from La Traviata
Just like for gays and the poor and the sick and the…..
Not to piss anybody off. Are there any woman in Stupak’s block?
Speaker Pelosi would shortly become Congresswoman Sheehan or similar if the filing deadline had not passed by now, with Speaker Pelosi indulging Congressworm Stupak and … Obama … as she is.
My, Kelly, when it comes to refutation, your logic wins the prize. That is, of course, what happens when you have no data, nor, apparently, logic. Reduces you to name-calling.
MSNBC online is reporting that President
BushObama will have a meeting tomorrow andstrongarmerthreatenerbribeer…convince, ya that’s it, the Dem sheep to gather into a delectable herd and baste themselves with BBQ sauce to be far more inticing to the wolves that are coming for supper this fall.Every time I think this bill couldn’t get any worse they completely surprise me with another dirty deal to make the entire Democratic party look like one big hypocrisy.
Seems to me like you’re saying is “what are a few poor women being denied reproductive rights more or less?” Very compassionate of you. Aren’t you overdue at Kos?
Good…anyone who has an abortion is just as morally corrupt as those in Washington.
Obama’s next target is Immigration Reform. Roll in another train of buses. He has some surprises up his sleeves for Latinos. Once he has Immigration reeeeform it’s time for EFCA. Cue the bus drivers.
The “Daily Krust” can sink to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, or I’d rather it didn’t because we have problem with pollution and degradation of the oceans, and I’d not have single crustacean damaged by the worthless digital entity.
So why doesn’t Grayson just refuse to vote FOR the health care bill until he gets a deal from Pelosi for a vote on his amendment?
Seems to be working for Stupak, and he’s got only 8 or so votes. Grayson supposedly has 80 cosponsors who supposedly want a vote on the amendment, right?
So what’s the deal, Grayson? Are you just full of shit?
Right now. Tonight. We have to start putting the funds together to help women get abortions. And birth control. The next thing on the list will be birth control. Can we do this at FDL?
Once again, a vile position to take.
There are actual real reasons for a woman to have an abortion that ARE NOT ELECTIVE! Don’t you get that? And poor women, receiving any kind of subsidy are pushed out of that pool?
Do you understand now?
Elbows, folks…
Christ, even a sixth or seventh international! I’d settle for an eighth!
Today. Was. The. Day. We. Saw. The. Truth. About. Democrats.
Don’t forget social security! And maybe if his only term permits, he can totally revamp unemployment insurance! Nowz the time ya know!
*heh* Are you sure it’s the 4th…? Tho, it’s been far too long…
Well, it only means that she has to have 2 separate plans, instead of 1 plan.
Hey, Champ. I think you need to explain your offensive comment @ 85 on an earlier thread:
Obviously Bart Stupak has staked his career on making a vacuous and empty gesture about attacking abortion rights, you couldn’t be more correct. Your analysis is impeccable! He stood and fought not as a regressive anti-abortionist no no no but as a Manchurian Candidate in the ranks of anti-abortionists secretly trying to be part of a grand stand on attacking reproductive freedom that is in truth completely empty and void, and furthermore, the Obama Administration and the vaunted Congressional majorities made no problem whatsoever of giving him what he wanted several months ago because they knew all along they weren’t really sabotaging reproductive freedom.
And as we have seen pointed out on this web site and others … the direct challenge to Roe v. Wade that this legislation sets up? It’s a fiction. No real “impact” you know.
right, he’s got that mandate and the masses will follow him anywhere, including over the cliff. His performance today was sickening. And we were worried that Republicans where fascists at heart. Republican zealots meet Democrat zealots.
Shame on you Nancy. How does it feel to suck Bart Stupak’s cock to please your Corp. masters , is there nothing you won’t do to pass this awful bill?
Kelly can u forward that to me?
I think he was referring to making sure reproduction was performed successfully.
The aide probably lied, but blame the aide, not Obama.
Yes, he is overdue at “Kos”.
Looks like we’re being trolled by Kossacks and Freepers tonight.
When they pass the bill thru Deem and pass the original bill is considered passed so Obama can sign it simultaneously while the Senate is voting on the fixes.
Not a huge difference, but enough for them.
You continue to inspire and awe me.
Watched the Pavarotti and Friends last night on PBS. Cheryl Crow has practiced pipes. T’was good after the families’ sad news yesterday. Did you see the James Brown with Lucianno version of It’s a Man’s world I posted.
Kelly, love you for all those unmentionable reasons!!!
Had shrimp and rice and salad and, now must go epsom & oil soak and read. Kisses to late night for me?
Must porch soon. Not tonight, but my 22 year old said he’d see me tomorry. My sweet BiBoy. He’s the male version of me. Good news and challenging news.
Bye hon, and if I ever make it to Denver…sounds like a song, don’t it?
On the way. Stand by.
Were they really getting all 8 of the other votes?
I’m sure it would be fifth.
The 3rd was the Bolsheviks during the Revolution.
When Trotsky broke from it he formed the fourth, of which the British labour party for example was a member.
There was never a fifth congress called.
I think they swapped out the bus for the Titanic. Plenty of room on the Titanic! All aboard…
Seems you are intentionally missing the point. I would gladly support Medicaid covering elective abortions. What has been repeatedly contended on this thread is this bill leaves poor women out; it is simply a specious argument; they are already left out. Do I think that is a good thing? No, I don’t; it just doesn’t have relevance to HCR as it is proposed.
No idea, that’s the group think over with the Kossacks (I love being able to call them that, makes the socialist in me smile).
I’ll say one thing. I’ve been a cynic for a long time when it came to politics, but this display of the Dems and their online partisan supporters, has got to be the most disgusting display I’ve ever seen. I first started on the “prog” sites after Bush was selected and could not believe how Rethuglicans carried on when in power. But this? This was totally unexpected. This Republican president has trampled all over Clinton’s legacy of Republicanism and raised the bar tenfold.
So now womens’ reproductive health is irrelevant to “HCR”? Spoken like a real man.
They will take it away and women will have to win it again.
Hell, maybe even the vote! They’re on a roll!
Meanwhile, even though Obama’s just a hood ornament on the murkan empire’s mindless vehicle to hell, my contempt for him is nonetheless knowing fewer and fewer bounds.
Are there differences between the reasons they’re left out now and, say, codifying it through legislation?
Speaking of “specious arguments” …
Sometimes that works, but sometimes you end up like California. What we need is an informed citizenry, and that is going to take a sea-change in culture.
Please don’t lump my entire gender into this.
Women’s health and constitutionally protected reproductive rights.
Well, I justified voting Democrat when time after time they sold out to corporations because they’d protect women’s right to choose. So much for that! At least they can’t hold that over my head any more. I’m voting green or independent from now on. Screw them and the donkey they road in on.
And Cao’s a firm no. I got a call back on that.
What a wonderful comment. Yes, it is a historical moment. No, one must never forget.
THAT way, something different happens. Guaranteed!
But it is chipping away at women’s rights. (Stupak sure did make his attitude about women known with his reference to nuns.) Women are in big trouble in this country. We make less. We have fancier parts that need more work. We take care of the kids. We sometimes need abortions. We don’t have equal rights.
Kathy Dahlkemper and Marcy Kaptur
Did the Senate parliamentarian actually say that, or is that just what the Rs are saying he said?
If they really are going to do this, we need to stage a threat to walk out on them and all there fundraising, Jane. They have to know that they have just dumped on the base for the last time.
The challenge to Roe v. Wade has been in the making for many years now. As I have stipulated previously, I resigned from the board of the local PP 25 years ago because no one would take me seriously that the Right was organizing and that if we did not counter it, some day Roe would be threatened. I don’t think HCR as it is proposed hastens that inevitable challenge.
“stage”? “threat”?
This here is what we call a DEE-vorce.
That nasty kind.
There’s one reform that I can’t wait for Obama to tackle.
It’s the surefire one to send the gun toting, racist, bankrupt, jobless,
homeless, warmongering, masses of “American Idol” worshippers into the streets. Immigration Reform. You wanna see anger? That’ll do it.
Everything else, they shrug, grab the Cheeto’s and back to the tube.
If it is for rape or the life of the mother is threatened, women are still covered under the Hyde Amendment.
There are no rational reasons for having one otherwise.
I thought when Representative Kucinich received his most excellent airplane ride he was informed that there was no more dealing–that this is the final bill. Would that mean that they lied to him because I am not sure if that’s a very nice thing to do.
This is all getting a bit too much for me. To think that I have lived to see people who call themselves “Progressive” and “Liberal” dismiss womens’ reproductive choices out of expediency… I guess the Bush kool aide has truly become the Obama kool aide.
Oyasumi Nasai Koinu!
Peg is not a man hater, and is not lumping. (I’ve known her for years.)
But the point is, it’s not Women Who Are Asking for this; it’s indeed men behind it.
Wrong. It doesn’t leave them out, it prevents them from being included. There’s a subtle difference you might be able to understand if your brain worked properly. It’s like saying here’s some healthcare reform, but not for you, and the pool of excluded people gets bigger every minute and with every closer look at this crap legislation.
Sorry. Wasn’t my intention. :-)
Again, you argue irrelevancies and, since you don’t have an argument, you revert to name-calling.
He’s been wanting to slice and dice Social Security since he took office.
No, no, let’s keep kicking the can. At least when a Republican tries to dismantle Social Security, the Democrats will oppose them.
Agreed. There are many men around here who understand the importance of women’s health and reproductive rights.
Speaking of which, did everyone just miss my comment @ 98 re champion88′s views? I think champion88 should have to explain the offensive assertions.
It’s beyond Hyde now. It’s about if you get a federal dollar, at all, in the form of subsidies in this bill, a medically necessary abortion will not be covered.
That’s the point.
But they’re such visually appealing parts. Full of mystery and joy.
On behalf of my Gender, I’m all for you having full control over them, as long as you let me have visitation rights every now and again.
You watch. The next thing they are going after will be the nursing unions. As we all know a predominantly female profession. You undermine women’s power when you take away abortions. You undermine women’s power when you weaken their unions.
‘Scuse me, you’re still not getting it.
Even if they can come up with the money, even if it’s a matter of their own life and health, they still can’t use that money for an abortion, because ‘money is fungible’ and it might mean using one cent of federal funding.
‘Pro-life’ nothing – they’re pro-[forced] pregnancy only.
The “offensive” comment is that I fail to see why women should not have to accept the consequences of having sex, if they do not want children?
The line of thought I am seeing here is that if a women gets drunk at a party, she should be allowed to have an abortion, just because she does not want the child.
Essentially, “me, me, me, me, me, me, me, etc.”
(Terrance and Phillip)
Terrance: O My! It’s beeninthemaking for years, Phillip! That means that the fact that it is happening now, why, it’s … irrelevant that it is happening now, or who is doing it!
Phillip: Your reasoning, is IMPECCABLE, Terance! Hahahahahah!
Terrance and Phillip: (pass gas)
(/Terrance and Phillip)
We have a GREAT argument, and you have no counter.
they don’t want this one either.
Gosh, someone else who doesn’t have an argument and resorts to name-calling.
No offense taken in all seriousness, Sarcasam never translates well into text.
As long as there’s no raving man hating going on, we’re cool.
What “real man”? Sorry I insulted you ma’am. :-)
Where’s the man’s responsibility in all this?
I think you are flat wrong here.
Well said Margaret.
Why would anyone subject ‘emselves to a party label
when both parties are corrupted to the core is beyond me.
So what stops the Senate from rejecting the bill of fixes then?
OK, folks – we all know what this is.
As the wise ones say, Do Not Feed. When you object, object at and with ideas, and not individuals.
Own it, babe.
Just saying that there’s a lot of history. Like me being a white chick. Not you personally.
I try to advocate for no hating…it’s my MO.
WHAT? You have got to be kidding! First off, it’s none of your business what reason any one has or doesn’t have for a medical procedure. Second, there are plenty of moral reasons to have an abortion that don’t include the one’s that you approve of … fetal deformity, maternal health, and for that matter it’s not your uterus or clump of cells, so again, it’s none of your damned business! If rapists in prison can get viagra, than abortion should be safe, legal, and paid for under ANY circumstances that the woman and a physician deems just peachy.
Read the Concurring Resolution.
“It is outrageous that a Democratic Speaker, a Democratic Majority Leader and a Democratic President should support rolling back women’s reproductive rights,” says one member of the group.
and yet this person is still going to vote for this bad bill. wtf
I used to read The Nation in the 1990′s, and I am completely flabbergasted at how it’s changed. I remember back when they were criticizing Bernie Sanders for not being enough of a socialist.
Still no argument, just insults.
I’m gonna get bashed on this but
The man doesn’t get any say on whether she has the abortion or not…you can’t have it both ways.
Please understand, I’m not supporting Stupak, but that’s a convo we need to have one day.
WTF do these comments mean?
You clearly don’t understand Stupak. Or maybe this is some vile form of snark. Not funny.
Nope I love men. Wish I had one to
exploitenjoy right now.in response to aardvark @ 148
I don’t have an argument? You say preventing people from getting care is reform, and I don’t have an argument? Your logic is severely lacking.
I’m doing my best Lurk.
Okay, get yourself fixed, and we’ll talk about your responsibilities. Because you seem to believe that pregnancies only take one person to happen.
LM: your contribution is valued and respected. Have a good night -
and teachers unions
Absolutely nothing at all.
Which is a real problem, because I don’t think the Senate passes Stupak. They can’t.
Unless Obama leans on them, and I’m betting he leans on them.
Stupak is a jerk who has only one issue that matters to him, limiting abortion rights. Yeah he mouths that he is for health care reform, but he wouldn’t mind at all if it died.
Grayson is someone who cares about many things. He believes this bill is an improvement and should be passed. He also believes we should have a good public option and sees his medicare buy-in as a way to get it. But he’s not a jerk who is willing to throw under the bus something he thinks is good just to get his most important concern.
It’s the old relationship refrain, the person in the relationship who cares the least about it is the one with the most power. Oh well.
Not every women who will receive some form of subsidy will be “poor”. Further, not all women who make little money have no insurance today. Finally, isn’t the point of this to expand health care? Pro-choice women believe reproductive health care falls under the purview of health care.
No kidding. Every single blog and site that supports a women’s right to choose should have a header that says we’ve walked out on you sucker and we are not returning!
Pelosi, Obama and the rest of the Dems are betting that Stupak will be struck down as unconstitutional. But let’s just say it isn’t? And it serves as precedent to strike down Roe v. Wade? Are they really planning to put Roe v. Wade on the line for this HCR bill?
Point me the way and I will read it.
Oh fuck off. Most women get pregnant because their birth control fails. And many of those women are married. Perhaps they have two or three children and not enough income to support another. So, should a woman give up sex? You make it seem like a capricious decision. Most woman agonize over it.
It’s in the very post above.
Why not? You haven’t given us anything to argue but your insults to our intelligence.
Jane, does this mean if a woman received a subsidy and then needs a D and C because she’s miscarrying or it’s an ectopic pregnancy or something, it wouldn’t be covered?
Of course.
What’s the point? I make my argument and you reply with the position that poor women aren’t worthy of reproductive rights or that there aren’t enough of them to really worry about anyway. I could argue with a post too and make as much progress. You’re a partisan and you’re not interested in policy, just getting this thing passed so you can congratulate yourself and Obama on a DEMOCRATIC VICTORY, because that’s all that matters to a partisan. Besides, it was a compliment and of course, undeserved.
In some states, if you don’t give a party preference, you don’t get much choice in primaries.
So, anything happening tonight?
Heard on NPR, yesterday I think, that this health insurance reeeeform was going to be the largest expansion of the social safety net since the passage of Medicare. Rather than calling it a safety net a more appropriate description would have been a spider web.
and the Ohio one … lucky for Dennis
I have always believed that if the dems sold us out on health care, it would split the democratic party in two.
I am leaving the democratic party.
Women’s bodies are not bargaining chips to be used to enact the corporate health care industry wet dream bill.
Fuck you Pelosi.
Fuck you Obama.
Fuck you Dems.
I’m sick to my stomach!
And Kucinich couldn’t stand his ground???
In a weird way, I have more respect for Stupak than Kucinich.
I don’t agree with him (Stupak), but he fought and held firm, and got something for it.
*yawn*
Not much here. How ’bout you?
I am sorry I can’t get exercised over this. This is just another step to the coup de grace’ for Roe v Wade.
We have been seeing women’s access to abortion dwindle away to virtually non-existent, especially for poor women, already. Where have been the women’s and civil libertarians voices over these many years of erosion?
And where in the hell have the party pro choice activists vetting and challenging the candidacy of all these anti women’s rights Democrats holding Pelosi hostage?
Someone should ask Bart Stupak why he’s so proud to help unrepentant child-molesters dictate to women what they can do with their own bodies.
LOL!
*yawns*
Wealth transfer seems even more fitting.
thank you so much, I needed the humor.
what are freepers?
I just say we vote champion88 off the island, but that’s just me.
LOL!
Then you have knee-jerked rather than read what I had to say. But, again, no rational argument, just insult. I will say, you are pretty skilled in having no argument but insult:)!
or
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That’s what I asked the other day.
The insurance billing code is the same for a D&C, whether it’s for an elective abortion, or a necessary, sometimes life saving procedure following a miscarriage.
Not to you, so don’t worry.
You’re missing the point. Roe doesn’t have to go down for choice to be dismantled. It’s happening as we speak.
Your characterization of why women’s reproductive rights have to be protected is offensive. It’s also nonsense. Wonder what would happen if we applied your “logic” to other issues…
There you go.
Good evening, Senator.
A beautiful night in NYC
and yet I’m here debating policy on the interwebs.
I think I had a life once maybe.
I wish Jane. Bored silly but I have two new books and I can spend some time deciding which one to read first.
You keep saying “insult” like it’s a charm or a prayer.
Look at section b, and subsections 1,2 and 3 above and come back with refutations based in fact.
i had to turn in off far sooner than Bush. Can’t stand to listen to his lies anymore.
The next time he declares himself a fierce advocate for some group, they should run far, far away.
Denizens of the blog “Free Republic”
Weird. Is this an immaculate conception. She gets prego all by herself?
Oh getting drunk at a party gets you pregnant. Yes She should be allowed to have an abortion. That is called FREEDOM. I know we evil libs will burn in hell for killing the unborn babies. So we do not need fundies to pass laws banning miscarriages or abortions.
Arguing with the ridiculous is an exercise in futility. We’ve had enough of that trying to get democrats to stand up for real reform.
Yes this is just one more step. It was set up with the election unchallenged of these anti women’s rights people calling themselves Democrats.
I think DK was made “an offer he couldn’t refuse.” I would put nothing past these corporate fascists that try and pass themselves off as “representatives” of the people. Did they remind DK of Mao’s dictum that “power grows out of the barrel of a gun?”
Mao was obviously a perceptive falla.
Where in God’s name did I say or imply that poor women were not worthy of reproductive rights? That is totally off-the-wall. I suppose that Planned Parenthood is one of the few organizations to which I donate money proves your point.
My daughter’s an ob/gyn resident. When she was a fourth year med student, a resident walked out rather than do a d&c after a botched abortion to stop the remnants from becoming septic. She had to do it or the women would’ve gotten drastically ill and it was nothing but remnants. She also now has trouble getting nurses just to stand there and watch her insert iuds. That last one was for a woman with four children whose husband has been unemployed for months and had terrible trouble for the last one. I hear her stories day in and day out. It’s horrid.
It’s a mantra. I still haven’t figured out how “real man” or “Ma’am” works out to be an insult. I mean they can’t both be insulting to the reader, right? ;-)
Sadly, you are right here.
“Hitler came to power against the strong feminist movement in Germany, padlocked the family planning clinics, and declared abortion a crime against the state.” – Gloria Steinem
Thanks, Nancy, for putting Hitler back into health care. Unbelievable.
Hey!
Pelosi does NOT have the votes without Stupak’s bloc. Is Stupak really looking for a way to vote for the bill and save face on abortion?
This will start to fall apart IF Stupak is serious about having his language substituted for the Senate language.
Nite, all.
Thanks for making a factual refutation based on the Concurring Resolution.
Where is she doing her residency? I didn’t know it had gotten that bad.
Sound familiar? Maybe I don’t have a command of the language but your argument seems to be that since poor women don’t have access anyway, further restricting their choices is no big deal and besides, there aren’t that many of them anyway.
Those two stories are from Michigan (Ann Arbor actually). She’s in Nebraska at the moment.
It keeps saying we aren’t reading what it has to say, but when we respond, it answers with insults and claims that we’re stupid.
Troll.
But Obama has to have his “win” no matter what we lose in order for him to get it.
Good thing we elected all these Democrats into Congress and even gave the WH to the Democrats. Sure would be terrible to have the R Party running Congress and the WH.
Because the Democrats would not go backwards on womens rights on life choices that a woman should be able to make or not make in private without some Congressman telling her what to do or not do.
Or have a Democrat POTUS giving us a AHIP/PhRMA written HCR that had G.W.Bush sponsored would have been viewed as being devised to mount an attack on Medicare.
Sure is good thing we gave the Democrats control of Congress and the WH.
The alternative would be awful.
You know what? I actually agree with you.
But you know what else? What do I say to the 19 year old girl who was seduced by her church’s pastor and her only life is within her church and if she speaks out against her pastor no one will believe her and her family will abandon her, but if she has the baby without saying who the father is the same thing happens and the only conclusion she can come up with is to have an abortion?
Do I force her to think like I do? Do I use the government to force her to think like I do? Do I throw in prison a doctor who gives her the abortion?
Or do I decide that it’s NOT my decision or the government’s decision or anyone else’s decision and support her when no one else will.
I choose the latter. I will work and work and work to keep abortion safe, available, and legal. Even if I do think that it’s not rational to get one unless it is for incest, rape or to save a woman’s live. That rationality will apply FOR MY CHOICE. It doesn’t and can’t apply for any other woman’s choice,
Get it?
When you decided that we didn’t answer you the way you think we should have.
Quite the comedienne tonight. :)
This is a good point.
I never realized that Michigan was that conservative. Guess I have been in California too long. Although, I have lived in TN,NC,MS and LA a long time ago. I hope we don’t have to go back to those days.
Bush was at least true to his base.
EFCA is going to be one of those carrots that he is perpetually dangling just out in front of labor. Support this terrible bill or you don’t get EFCA! It’s like that old cartoon, with a donkey tied to plow, and a stick tied to their neck and dangling a carrot just past where they can reach it.
I’m not betting on it. I feel like I spent years of my youth fighting for these rights only to have a bunch of throwbacks to the iron age dictate what is and isn’t science and medicine. Italy has more liberal reproductive rights than we do here.
Sigh. Yes, much as I don’t want to believe it, I wouldn’t be surprised if they *reminisced* about Paul Wellstone.
Parts of Michigan are a hot bed of far right wing Republicanism and the militia movement. Mostly located on the western side of the state (Grand Rapids) and in the rural outback.
I already said goodnight once, (okay it was in Japanese), but this time I’ll say it in English and mean it too. Good night pups. Tomorrow’s another day. :-)
The House CANNOT attach any amendments in order for this to pass and not go back to the Senate. Remember how a bill becomes a law? house passes 1 version…Senate passes another…it goes to conference…OR either the House or the Senate can vote on the other side’s bill WITHOUT AMENDMENT (basically a conferenced bill that the House or the Senate agreed not to make changes on). You can’t have amendments to a “conferenced” bill. This bill would be voted on by the House “in toto”…without changes in order to end up on the President’s desk. If they alter the language in any way, it would have to go back to the Senate for 60 votes. Try again.
Nighty night Peg-Koinu!
This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen. I’d be proud to contribute to this and other similar initiatives myself. Far better to do it this way than waste money on political donations in the hope someone will do it for us. It can’t miss, either. Heart + Internet.
Whether you realize it or not, this is actually the seed of revolution. Not a political one, either. I’ll bet lights are going on in other people’s heads right now.
And just like the donkey….. Sickening.
It’s not an amendment. It’s a Concurring Resolution. Look it up.
The union bosses will work with Mr. Bipartisan to come up with a corporate friendly bill and then cram it down the throats of the rank and file. Since the unions have been purged of any leftist perspective the workers will just have to swallow it.
I’ll say this for the man,. in the past year, no one in Washington has more competently set goals, framed arguments and completely own his adversaries like Bart Stupak. IF the 60 Progressive Caucus members who backed down from their public option promise had half the tenacity of the much smaller Stupak bloc…. they (and we) would be living in a better world right now. Since the CPC members are who they are and can’t not be wimps, they might as well ask Stupak to lead them and promise they’ll let him do the negotiating.
Besides being a pro-life Catholic, he has a moderately liberal voting record (voted against Iraq War, supports ENDA and Medicare buy-ins). Just having a leader who doesn’t flinch the first time someone at the White House or the Speaker’s Office looks at them sternly will do the CPC a world of good. Sounds crazy, but by accident or design CPC has destroyed their own credibility with their Public Option climbdown. They need to do something drastic if they ever want to taken seriously at the negotiating table again. Electing Stupak as their maximum leader… that’s drastic. :o).
Will be here when you get back. Sleep well.
This is why government controlled, taxpayer funded health care insurance will not work. A one-size-fits-all system cannot possibly meet the needs and consciences of all of the citizens simultaneously.
No one is denying a women’s right to choose to have an abortion. If she wants one she must pay for it. If she cannot afford it perhaps she could find a source other than the American taxpayer to subsidize her procedure. I am sure that well meaning pro-choice advocates could start a private sector, not-for-profit organization to help those women in need. Private charity has always been more effective than the government in meeting the needs of those who require our assistance.
OT. Was just playing trivia online and one question was “‘who is the woman, born in Greece, who started a popular liberal blog?”
The names to choose from
Katrina van den Heuvel
Jane Hamsher
Arianna Huffington
Rachel Maddow.
Our Jane is really getting famous !
I’ve been SO RESTRAINED – I feel the need to let loose a string of obscenities! Close your eyes, Mods!
Sad.
Abortion is a legal MEDICAL procedure, yet a woman will no longer be covered for it, regardless of whether she miscarries spontaneously or electively.
Will vasectomies still be covered?
And what about those little blue pills?
Will they still be covered too?
You know that David Dayen is upstairs again, right?
Stupak is Back: What’s an Enrollment Corrections Bill?
My suggestion is that we put in a request to Canada to consider granting asylum to US women as victims of political oppression. See if that status helps poor women get access to abortions.
Works just fine in France and Italy (both predominantly Catholic countries), ranked number 1 and 2 by the World Health Organization for the healthcare they provide to their citizens.
The American taxpayers subsidize all sorts of things they personally oppose. Get over yourself. My tax dollars are paying for two wars, and a behemoth defense budget I oppose.
of course!! They even give those little blue pills to prisoners at taxpayer expense!
The unions should be blamed for continuously chasing this.
This is why I bash the unions so much, because they’re to stupid to realize this. They’re NEVER going to give them EFCA.
OK, poo sandwich above.
Do what Jeebus would do.
Dude would scroll…
not to mention state sanctioned torture and executions
Mr. Bipartisan will play his rope a dope with the unions.
And if the unions fall for it they’re not just being fooled, they are fools.
Who wants to keep defending the unions to me? Many have you have tried, all of you have failed.
There is some (?) possibility we’ll get a clarification Saturday from Pelosi on all this. Everyone keep your fingers crossed that she listened to the Pro-Choice Caucus and nixes any deal with Stupak.
She could be, IF the federal government would stay out of the health insurance business.
They’ve allowed themselves to become fools when they purged their movement of real leftists that understood it’s always about class.
if you google for far left blogs, you will have to ask yourself, WTF?
it’s telling though about the state of America’s political wasteland.
She does not have the votes without Stupak. If she did, he and his bloc would be under the bus.
No reason for it not to start here.
The California Nurses Union is amazing. They are unified. Their members make a good salary. They just keep getting stronger and stronger.
Is that why then-Senator Obama, at that point an underdog candidate, rushed to correct the story published by his hometown newspaper? Oh wait…
This is a snark, right?
And how will pissing off the 40-50 pro-choice Dems help get to the magic 216?
We are NOT Italy or France.
I’m thinking no.
mmmhh…imagine that. Lets see…conservative compassion or liberal deception?
Or was it conservatives for less government and liberals for good government? So how do we get conservatives meddling in womens personal choices and liberals doing lousy “Yes We Can” government?
…imagine that.
It doesn’t. So, this is either a clever cover for Stupak and his bloc to vote for the bill or an empty promise by Pelosi. This could be the deal breaker that will kill the bill.
We know. The U.S. has nothing to learn from other countries.
It’s not just reproductive health. At this point, I think “health” in general has become completely irrelevant to the Democrats’ HCR bill.
The VA seems to work.
So does Medicare.
Why do you object to them?
Have you been drinking?
HCR effects every American and to paraphrase Lincoln, “You cannot please all of the people all of the time”. Government does have it’s limits, no matter how well-intentioned.
True.
They have much better health insurance than we do.
And their health care is better, too.
Why do politicians hate America?
Your words, not mine.
You are free to relocate.
On the other hand, pleasing only a minority of the people is guaranteed to get you thrown out of office.
You paying for it, then?
Do you think Stupak is in danger of not being re-elected if he holds firm to his pro-life position?
Nope. You’re on your own. Arriverderci! Bon Voyage!
Exactly. This response should be repeated a million times per day to any issue even remotely related to budgets and appropriations. It’s not hard to make the case for health CARE over war. Nor is it difficult to substitute any other issue when that fight is won.
Cheers to Jane Hamsher! Thru the din of the blog-clog, her passion on HCR has elevated her to ‘Activist-in-chief’ status….Tonight, people are linking to FDL from such (ideologically) distant lands as The Corner. FDL has become a “must visit” site for those taking pulse of the Left….As a common-sense defender of the POTUS, I enjoy coming here, myself. That’s despite the fact that I believe that
mostsome of the commentors here are, flat-out, wacked!Obama’s buddies at the SEIU began targeting the California Nurses Association a year ago:
Looking back, Obama and his neoliberal friends started laying the groundwork for this sell-out on HCR as soon as he became president.
I oppose both tax-payer funded abortion and tax-payer funded war. I support HCR but not this bill.
You will, of course, notify your brethren that your comments, like those of all your fellow travelers, are public, unedited, and open to discussion.
Lurk Rocks!
I’m in CA, too. Wanna start a “Sick of Swirlies” party? Cuz I’m really tired of always being the one asked to come along for something important and cool and ending up with my head in the toilet.
It’s sarcasm and it’s doubtful your ossified mind is cable of learning anything new.
Thirty five years ago…Friday night…sure. Tonight? Watching TV LAND.
Although the suspended reality overdoses might bring on an intoxicated state of mind… ;->
If you think you are being baited, you probably are.
So act accordingly.
I’m driving up there to go door to door for the Republican if this crap goes through.
You oppose logic and thought, too, it would appear. Since you don’t seem to use them.
Do you have to declare belonging to a party in your state? Possible to just…for now…be an unaffiliated independent sort?
I don’t think I’m going to be voting for people backed by SEIU. And not for anyone backed by whichever union Trumka claims to run.
California has closed primaries. No official party means you’re stuck with only the non-partisan stuff. Which means, pretty much, only the propositions. The general elections, however, are open.
Don’t need you to ‘school’ me. A one-size-fits-all system can never meet the needs and consciences of all the citizens. This bill will effect every American, with diverse concerns and opinions. This diversity and our right to live freely as we choose keeps the government from becoming tyrannical.
This is why America IS unique.
Damn my geography teacher! I knew we were studying the wrong side of the globe.
How so? Simply because I do not want my tax dollars to pay for a procedure I find morally objectionable? I do not insist that abortion be made illegal, or criminal, just that it not be a function of the government to subsidize it. Much good for our fellow man has been done outside the government. If you feel so strongly that any woman in need should be allowed to have an abortion, then start a private charity to meet such a need.
HAHAHAHAH! You are very funny!
How so?
I have no doubt that the unions can bargain waged for their own.
They’re just absolutely toothless when it comes to politics.
Obama is going to lure them along over and over again and they’re going to fall for it because they’re so desperate to be relevant again.
They deserve to die for selling us out on the excise tax and everything else.
I’m not here to build bridges today, the Democratic party has killed that instinct in me.
“As a common-sense defender of the POTUS.”
Sounds kind of oxymoronic, doesn’t it? As a defender of the fake, your job’s getting tougher by the hour.
I don’t know about you hotdog, but I’m ok with that.
Because when you live in Europe for a while, you realize the people squeeze the government there more than we do here.
It results in a better standard of living, and all sorts of things.
Yeah, we’re unique here – in that we live less freely than others.
Kelly, by unique, I think he means that insurance companies are allowed to profit from the grievous illnesses of the population.
Yep, exceptionalism.
I think that Blackwater should have to rely on private charity to kill and maim those Iraqi babies because it sickens me that my tax dollars are helping. Where are the right to lifers when the pictures of the horrible birth defects in Iraq are going around? Too busy planning an abortion clinic bombing?
I’m OK with making it tougher, but not with the fact I have to. Witnessing the twisted logic and apologetics is depressing.
Again, you too are free to relocate.
“This diversity and our right to live freely as we choose..”
Sorry lady, you’re pregnant and broke. The only choice you get is to walk out of here.
We’re unique in the use of white phosphorus on Iraqi citizens, an especially evil doctrine. Well, I guess the Israelis do that too…We still have the torture and murder game to ourselves in Central America, though. And we’re big at training mutilators in Indonesia. There are so many examples, really.
And just as free to stick around and bug you.
That dude on the ground in Ohio, with Parkinsons – free to leave.
Somebody get that guy some crutches!
Again, I oppose the war and abortion.
You result to the extreme to try and discredit my objection to tax payer funded abortion and it just makes no sense.
In any event, we will disagree, but in the end, differences over the abortion language in the HCR bill may be enough to kill this bill, which I fell would be a good thing.
Good night.
*hands emerson a fine, domestic root beer*
skol, blood
If you want to win, it’s important not to surrender. That’s something that I hope progressives in Congress learn someday.
Slainte newt!
And you’re free to have your opinions, but not facts
Time to start mailing coat hangers to Democrats. Obama is top of the list… “don’t worry about the women, who else can they vote for?”
Even Obama isn’t this incompetent. This was his plan. No one is this bad a negotiator. He gave away everything and got nothing in return. He sold out to Big pharma and the insurance companies long ago. Where do you think his money came from for the campaign… it wasn’t pennies from children and dollars from the poor.
Start sending them to all your representatives. Let them know they aren’t representing you and won’t have a job come the next election.
What do you think they have their sites on next? Medicare? Social Security? Public Education?
There is no Democratic party. There is no democracy. There are just corporations.
“Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?”
You have all the empathy of that speaker.
They’re going for Social Security and Medicare next, because that will take out the elderly and the disabled and reduce the pool of people who have some idea how governments should work.
Education they’ve been working on for a long time (witness the people talking about keeping the government out of medicare, or some of the trolls), but it takes longer when you have educated people around.
Actually, it’s a lot easier to just go ahead and lose and then CALL it a win. You waste less energy that way, and as long as the marketer in chief does his job at the pep rallies, you might be able to convince enough air heads you actually did win.
Why don’t you move to a Socialist country then? Go to Europe, where you can squeeze the government and have a higher standard of living. Why stay here if you hate it so much?
need sleep. nite
Yes, while you remain so as to improve things…
That’ll work.
I find war morally objectionable.
No it does make sense. Your argument is that you and others find abortion morally objectionable so taxpayer money shouldn’t pay for it.
Well it seems you also oppose war too, so do you favor the idea that tax payer money shouldn’t be used to wage war?
If not why?
Doesn’t matter
The supreme court of the United States has found abortion legal.
A lot of taxpayers don’t like funding tanks or medical research or all the other shit the government funds. But it’s legal.
The later it gets the weirder the thread. How about this for a topic? From an old SNL bit:
“The use of tax free municipal bonds to pay for the forced busing of Chinese Communists into your neighborhoods for the express purpose of killing your children’s puppies.”
Discuss
I don’t believe the Stupak language will be substituted for the Senate Bill’s language.
Honestly, I do not think you have anything to fear here. Pelosi is either lying to him, or has someway around this. There is no way on Earth she will alienate the Choicers…they far outnumber the Lifers.
Believe me, I wish it were true, but I’m sure she has a deeper scheme than what it looks like at the surface.
How many more times do you need to be screwed over by Pelosi et al to realize that she could give a crap about other women? Yes, I was a Hillary supporter and I knew Obama would throw women under the bus at a moment’s notice.
No one wanted to listen when it counted. Are you tell me Hillary would have conducted herself this way? Would anyone believe her health care bill would be this crappy?
Too late. Now look where we are.
Oh well, back to the Stone Age!
I’m a little surprised no one in Congress has demanded a vote for legislation similar to that proposed in Uganda regarding homosexuals as part of this. You could see Pelosi and Reid whipping furiously for that too. Some theatrics from “progressives” and at the end, a massive cave.
On another note, one of your ex-generals blamed the Srebrenica massacre on the fact that gays were serving in the Dutch army. The Dutch reaction was very “frank”.
Most transparent administration ever.
Most ethical congress ever.
Yeah, so are you. [edited by mod]. Unless you hold a signed deed on America?
Tru dat.
Bullsh**. I have a moral objection to war. Unfortunately, I can’t stipulate that my tax dollars won’t go to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many American taxpayers see their tax dollars going places and doing things of which they don’t approve.
Oh damn, I just fed a troll.
Right you are!
Please, PLEASE donate to Bart Stupak’s primary opponent:
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/24052