Tweet
In the homestretch of the health care debate, one obvious question being asked across the capital is whether Speaker Nancy Pelosi will find 216 votes to pass the bill. For a group of particularly jittery Democrats, the better question may be this: Who will be allowed to slip away?
[...]
There are, of course, very few votes to spare. Yet there are some. And even most Republican leaders concede that the mystery is not so much whether Democrats will reach the magic number of 216, but rather whose names will be included as yes votes in the final count.
“Every vote around here is a heavy lift,” Ms. Pelosi told reporters Thursday.
I’m sure it is.
82 Comments
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Any HCR that ‘cuts’ the deficit is not worth the hot air that went into it.
My Vote Melissa Bean she is as Blue Dog as they come and her District Hates Taxes. Healthcare helping poor/code for Dark people will not sell in that District.
They don’t want their tax dollars to help others.
Melissa should be the Top target for a GOP House pickup this year. Obama forcing the middle class to buy health insurance, trust me my old neighbors will call that a tax.
New U.S. agreement with Israel is that Israel can build anything they want, but they must keep it secret so U.S. doesn’t get embarrassed. democracynow.
It really tells you how bad this bill is when “every vote is a heavy lift.” No one with any brains wants their name attached to it.
It would be strange if Obama protects his Blue Dogs from having to vote for his bill and the Progressives all vote for it.
Snark?
There is little that is genuine and honest in U.S. politics. It’s as staged as a WWE cage match. O now canceling his trip to Asia for a second time is but another staged event to add to the “drama.” It’s really so phony and yet the corporate media willing plays along and the public is never if ever the wiser.
AZ has elimiated SCHIP and will cut back Medicaid. 47,000 children under SCHIP will no longer be covered.
No.
It’s called rope-a-dope and can there be any bigger dopes in Congress than the “progressives?”
Daily Show is not worried about being unemployed with this kind of material.
The Blue Dogs if they bother to run for reelection this year.
You got that right.
Meanwhile, Tony Blair’s role in getting some foreign oil deals in Kurdistan was kept secret for 20 months because of ‘market sensitivity.’
Got stuff to do. BBL.
If the bill actually addressed healthcare perhaps the lift would not be such a heavy load.
Michael Moore said on CNN Wednesday evening that the Obama presidency rests on passage of this bill. I agree with Michael on some things, but this isn’t one of them. The Obama presidency is already a waste. I’m not sure McCain would have been much worse.
What if the President had said instead the following. There would be an impeachment effort by the right.
Of course, it would never happen. Another translation is
By the way there is a wingnut food fight occuring. Insanity Hannity versus Debbie Schlussel. It is something about unethical fund raising practices and misuse of funds. I am on Deb’s side.
Spot-on column by Glenzilla on the ineffectiveness of progressives:
Has Rahm’s assumption about progressives been vindicated?
If those charges turn out to be true Sean maybe off the air. Especially if the IRS gets involved.
Jon Stewart’s explanation of the financial industry earlier in the week, in which he used an ’89 Volvo as collateral was classic. Not only was it hilarious but one of the most cogent analyses I’ve heard.
Mornin’, BT, pups
For one thing McSFB would have caused the deaths of untold numbers of US servicemen, Irakis, Afghans and Iranians. McSFB would have set the entire Middle East and Asia on fire. We’re not there yet but Obama’s doin’ his best.
Ask that question again on election day. I’m betting Rahm blames us for not showing up.
The Dems lost Ted’s seat because of this issue. ObamaHealthcare is a loser.
I see Krugman is still pimping this piece of shit health insurance giveaway.
I don’t understand it.
Hmm… 1993… If only more could remember back at least that far, because then they’d realize we’re getting a slightly reworked version of the 1993 REPUBLICAN faux reform bill.
This hideous bill is looking more and more like a Rohrschach test: those wearing the blue glasses see reform that isn’t there; those wearing the red ones see communist devils and other odd things; those wearing none see a very very bad joke on the People.
I notice that none of the supporters of this pos say anything about the mandate or the anti-choice language, like those issues don’t exist. Well, at least we know who our friends are.
This entire process for “healthcare reform” over the past year has been beyond strange. It would certainly be ironic if Blue Dogs were excused and “progressive” lawmakers took the hit, but damn it, they deserve it. They chose to vote yes when they had pledged to vote no. Although I was pessimistic about any positive results when this “healthcare reform” process started more than a year ago, I have been astounded at the depths to which our lawmakers have sunk. This issue, more than almost anything else, has truly destroyed my faith in my country’s “leaders” and in the majority of people who elected them. Unfortunately, that majority includes me, a situation that I’ll be remedying in future elections. Do I sound bitter? Damn right.
Someone pointed out that this legislation is providing less than the proposed legislation by Truman, Clinton and even Nixon. The U.S. isn’t moving forward but backwards. Pathetic!
Good point lets see Koz sell the anti choice language to his people.
I think he agrees with you but that the ability of Obama to survive 2012 is what he was talking about. He may be right about that and sadly, at this point, he is the one Dem who’s defeat I fear. Consider Palin getting two Supreme court appointments. There’s a 50% chance that whoever wins in 2012 will have two appointments, especially if they are rethug. Scalia, Kennedy and Thomas are getting up there and the odds are not all of them will make it to 2016.
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool. Supervisor is in the hospital so they’re bustin’ my ass.
US KIA Irak: 4,385
US KIA Afghanistan: 1,023
Iraki and Afghan casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M
US MBS 2010: 9,548 and counting
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Guess since Brett Baier constantly interrupted the President the other day, now Mo-whitey Joe figures he has to do the same to the NY state legislator.
Bully thug tactics now the order of the day on MSNBC.
It would be something we can hang the fake liberal politicians and press with.
Wait. What the hell was that? Gosh the poor mods are already having to work hard. Bizarro.
Blessins on the ((Mods)).
Only thing worse would be that we would have bombed Iran already. But wait, that may yet be coming from the Obama presidency.
Oops, this was intended as a response to oldhippie @15.
You know we are in trouble when even Nixon starts looking like a “progressive” in comparison to the corporatist Dems.
I think everyone here feels the same way.
It will have to get much worse before there is even a remote chance of transformational change in the U.S.. If that means putting the Republicans back in power so be it. Let the Republicans destroy the economy again and maybe this time there will be an alternative other than a silver tongued snake oil salesman.
Only 3% of self-defined liberals oppose this legislation.
How did Obama do on the interview I haven’t seen it?
Obama is further to the right than Nixon.
Shoot for the stars, land on the moon?
no. Ok, how about the next mountain top?
no. Ok, how about the nearest tree?
no. Ok, how about the backyard?
no. Well shoot (funny how the word works both ways, huh?), guess we’ll have to just wake up tomorrow and go back to picking cotton.
I close races 3% could cost an election. Then add in the abortion language and how much of the women’s vote goes. Then add the unemployed and the recently homeless.
Despite all that the Dems still lead the GOP in the polls why that is, is driving me nuts.
That’s been part of the strategy all throughout this thing — make the progs pay the price. Suckas!
Mainly because the GOP is so nutty they’re no longer of this earth.
That says a lot about “liberals” in this country today.
Anyone need a diary topic? WikiLeaks is being attacked by our government. US Army, NSA, FBI, TIA, Cass Sunstein, Goldman Sachs? Who can say. WikiLeaks provides a place for anonymous posting by whistleblowers and lamplighters that document corporate and government misconduct. The promise an extra layer of security to protect these sources. Our taxes are paying to attack WikiLeaks.
It is totally LOL that the government is concerned about spreading lies and propaganda. Look into the mirrors fellows! WikiLeaks also helped expose torture by our psychopathic neo-con overlords.
Given how high African American unemployment is I’m doubting Obama can get the same level of votes he got with them this up coming election.
Agreed but its sad
No.
3% of self-identified liberals would only constitute about 0.6% of the electorate, given that liberals constitute approximately 20% of the electorate.
I thought that was Fox New’s job?
I’ve been saying this back when you got called an idiot and worse on this site for saying that. We’re headed for a 1930′s style depression in 5-10 years. Knee-capping dems who deserve it won’t cause or prevent it but if they are not in power when that happens we have a better chance of getting in people who will really will change things. However, if we have two more 50 year old John Roberts on the court we will be totally fucked regardless of everything else. So I argue that we should work to defeat every blue dog and blue dog leaner even if that means they are replaced with a rethug. However, the cost of giving the next set of court appt’s to the rethugs in 2012 is too high for me.
I agree that McCain is too enthusiastic about applying military means to political ends, but no one can say for certain what would have happened had he won the election. Because he didn’t and whatever he might have done is only supposition. What we actually have in Obama is more than bad enough. We have more problems at hand than we know what to do with.
Which they share with self defined everybody else. What percentage of the population is self defined liberals? I’m just asking, as I don’t know. Last I heard there were about 25% dems, 25% reps, and 50% independents.
The rest of the people I mentioned will take the slack besides all GOPers hate this plus how are Moderate voters polling on this issue? How will the polling change when it passes and we find out the hidden details?
When 90% of his base is going to be paying fealty equivalent to 1/5 of their income to the insurance cabal, I don’t see how any thinking person would vote for him, but delusion seems to know no boundary.
True the GOP has made Liberal a dirty word.
Link Please? Thats a very interesting number.
“True the GOP has made Liberal a dirty word.”
But they fuck goats, so..
IMHO, because if he doesn’t, his column at NYT may be threatened and his powerful friends and academic colleagues will be mad at him. Or he’s not nearly as intelligent as he’s always seemed.
Self-defined moderates are 57%/43% supportive.
Only 9% of self-defined conservatives support it.
Moderates and conservatives each comprise roughly 40% of the electorate.
This is why liberal ideas have such a difficult time becoming legislation without being “moderated.”
They blow dead goats.
Trotsky’s to the right of me. Go figure.
New post up top…
But only if you give them a couple bucks.
Right wing Supreme Court justices could always be impeached and when the the economy tanks again during a Republican Administration and a truly progressive if not radical is elected and hangs the failure around the necks of Republicans you can bet right wing judges will be impeached and the people would support that removal. Mr. Bipartisan failed to hang the failures around the necks of the Republicans because he is nothing more than a corporatist, not a transformational leader.
Randy Rhoads mentioned the mandate yesterday on her show, but she downplayed it by saying that the fine would only be around $90.
You’re sure Obama’s will appoint someone you can respect? Based on his record so far?
Howard Dean looked uncomfortable while he gave his positive D Party HCR happy talk points recital. I like Dean. I think he has taken a few for Obama during this ordeal the D Party is calling historic. Others may prefer the word pathetic.
Rachel Maddow has her moments. Does not do West Bank or Gaza. Last night was not doing mandate,the AHIP/PhRMA secret deal details that fully define this Obama/Pelosi/Reid D Party HCR.
Rachel can do sharp questions when she does.
When she does D Party Tonight Happy Talk like she does with Dean Thursday night she reveals her topic sanitizing. But she at least was talking with Dean. Not Rahm or Axelrod. Poor Dean. He looked pained.
Of course he is. He’s a partisan Dem.
Respect is a little strong, just much much better than what we would get from SaraFromAlaska or any of the other likely rethugs.
We would need to end up with a congress and prez much stronger and more left than FDR. I would love to see a gov that would dismantle US capitalism as we know it but I’d settle for 50 more years of an FDR like legacy. If we get that after the next meltdown we’ll be lucky. A congress that would impeach Roberts et. al. It’s a nice dream but…
We need to get away from Moderate/Progressive labeling. America is with us on issues, just not with us on labels.
Sorry to reply so late, my comments are a series of drive-bys (I have a physical life too). The median income is 50k the avg cost of ins per CBO is 15 for a family, and 5 for an individual. I was only talking orders of magnitude so 1/5 is an approximation. Can I collect 400k now or do I have to put it in a spread sheet and call myself Gruber first?
This issue, more than almost anything else, has truly destroyed my faith in my country’s “leaders” and in the majority of people who elected them
Don’t worry, this is a GOOD thing. We are beyond the stage where we elect people to take care of us. Now we take care of ourselves.
And for God’s sake stop worrying about Republican takeovers, Supreme Court appointments, or whatever! It DOESN’T MATTER. :-) And worrying about such things is how they keep you in line…
Will there be a third party? Who knows? I doubt it. And that doesn’t matter either.
There are much, much bigger concerns.
I keep saying that if the republicans are smart, a few of their retiring members will slip over to vote for it and hang this anvil around Democrats’ necks for decades.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been noticing for quite a while: the “supporters” utilizes cliches, vague promises, and scary alternative scenarios [always including "Obama HAS to win on this"]. They never deal with the SPECIFICS.
“It would certainly be ironic if Blue Dogs were excused and “progressive” lawmakers took the hit, but damn it, they deserve it. They chose to vote yes when they had pledged to vote no.” The WH policy seems to be when in doubt kick the dirty hippies and kiss the BDs. I agree , the so called Prog. pols deserve the disdain and disrespect they get because they’re light weights and their pledges to their own base are worthless so why should the WH or the Gopers show them anything but contempt. Especially by the way the people like DK and Conyers.
“Transformational Leader?”
Yeah, he’s going to transform us back to the economic arrangement that existed in the 90′s. The 1890′s.
I happen to disagree with all the folks who are just certain that Obama is toast for 2012. Maybe. I hope so.
But a year is a lifetime in politics. (Remember 12 months ago a lot of people here thought O arrived in Washington by walking across the Potomac,) and we have almost 3 years left to go. There are ample opportunities for him to push shiny object legislation and call it good. And witness all the people who cleave to him no matter what. Obama could brandish a swastika on his sleeve and the Obamabots would gobble up some rationale as to how it is good that he is showing tough, authoritarian opposition against those crazy R’s. And never undereststimate the capacity of the Repubicans to dish up some idiot like Bobby Jindal or Palin or Bachmann who is so rank that many Progs run back into Obama’s arms. And finally, don’t forget what an awesome speechifier Obama is. He will no doubt rattle the rafters with self congratulations about Healthcare and financial reform, Lily Ledbetter and the portentous evils of the Demon Republicans.
I know. The right despises him and so do we on the left and that would seem to preclude all hope for the man. But if you take all of the above and toss in a few adoring crowds in Paris and London . . . I think ejecting his ass will be a much tougher lift than many suspect.
I saw the program last night on the internet, not the teevee, and can only assume that it was indeed last night’s show. What was remarkable to me, a big hater of the individual mandate, was that Dean three times, by my count, went out of his way to attack the mandate. Rachel, as always, was not mentioning the mandate at all — a truth that is inconvenient for her.
Twice, Dean pointed out that in Vermont they did not have the mandate and had felt no need to impose it. The third time, he said words to the effect of “people don’t like being told what they have to do, particularly on personal matters.”
So, two-and-a-half cheers for Gov. Dean!