Mornin’, BT

What’s Markos gonna do when this bill bites the dust?

This is a perfect example of subservience to the alpha male.

“This was a detour,” the Ohio Democrat told CNN’s “Larry King Live.”

We can always do more for mankind by following the good in a straight line than we can by making concessions to evil. The illusion that it is wise or necessary to suppress our instinctive love of truth comes from an imperfect understanding of what that instinctive love of truth represents, and of what damage happens both to ourselves and to others when we suppress it. The more closely we look at the facts, the more serious does this damage appear. And on the other hand, the more closely we look at the facts, the more trifling, inconsequent, and absurd do all those reasons appear which strive to make us accept, and thereby sanctify and preserve, some portion of the conceded evil in the world.

John Jay Chapman, Practical Agitation, 1900, Preface.

I don’t take back anything I said.

Oh fucking really? You lying POS

Nah, that could never be.

If this law passes, or if this law doesn’t pass, my insurance premium will go up to a level that I won’t be able to pay. One way or another, next year, I am either going to have crappier insurance or no insurance. I’m done with Markos. He’s more interested in keeping Obama’s poll numbers up than actually passing good laws.

I’m talking about Kucinich’s caving to O.

Markos is a Republican.

Have no fear. If you cannot afford health insurance you will not be able to afford the fine for not affording the health insurance so you will………

I know. I have run out of snarks so they will have to be assumed from now on.

I figured you knew, but my comment was a bit ambiguous, so I thought clarification was in order.

Kucinich is up on democracynow.

DK was a progressive’s mirror.

You could look at his politics and say, “Yeah, awesome, my way or the highway, stand strong!”

Then there’s a compromise here or a justification there, and one day you wake up and the mirror’s not your friend anymore.

Is it the mirror’s fault?

I want to know what can be said in the span of a day that would change a stance that had all the appearances of a principled opposition to onerous legislation. Or has DK just played us for fools all these years?

Kuchinich “hopes” he can build something from the “ruins” of this bill. Geez.

Kucinich sez that he thought that if this bill doesn’t pass, any further discussion of HCR would be dead. Sez states are now the hope for futher reform.

“….the president has committed to working with me to seeing further health care reforms ….”

When hell freezes over.

Markos is back to posing as the progressive populist. I’ll bet most Daily Kos readers were transported with fits of rapture after that interview. Glad I stopped watching Lawrence O’Donnell after his love fest with Ken Starr.

Kucinich sez he will now vote for whatever gets sent down.

If he really believes that he is quite as stupid as he sounds.

Years ago when DK was making mutterings about being Pres. he was at my house for a fundraiser (I was a foolish youth back then) A few hours with him convinced me that he was all for DK and bugger all else. He is a self centered little prick according to my spouse.

That seems born out by recent developments, yep.

Nader’s up with Kucinich on dn.

I always saw him as a kinda weird dude with some good ideas. Now, however, I suspect your spouse may be right.

Hoooo, I might wanna watch that later.

Nader sez ‘pay-or-die’ system. He can turn a phrase.

Rest in Peace, Alex Chilton

Bring out the clowns…….

Back to the strippers. Do ya think the place would be packed with C-Street Rethugs with McArdle, Bachmann and Perino each on a pole?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

I wonder if Kucinich actually did get somethin’ or a promise of somethin’ goin’ forward: the “retirement” of Rahm Emmanuel before the fall election season. I watched Rachel Maddow’s interview of Geithner the other night and it seems the White House people were goin’ all out to posture themselves as doin’ the hard stuff to save the system for “the people” and Geithner seemed to flinch when Maddow made reference to populist mobs with pitchforks outside the White House this fall. I think that Obama is gettin’ the picture that if he has any chance of savin’ his majorities in congress this Fall he’s gunna hafta do sumpthin’ more with jobs, bankin’ reform and EFCA and to do that he’s gunna need the “progressive” whimps and a mobilized base. If he’s gunna do any of what’s necessary he’ll hafta get rid of The Tiny Dancer before the Summer recess.

And now, in the cool of the mornin’ I wonder if some a the people around here are thinkin’ better of makin’ Kusinich the scapegoat for this mess in congress and look at the real perps in the White House…or maybe not, I guess I wouldn’t be surprised at any self-destructive shit that comes down from what passes for our Revolutionary Guard.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, JUST THINK BEFORE YA SHOOT NEXT TIME!!

This is Dennis. He postures strongly for principles as long as his vote is not needed. He fold dutifully when the Causus needs his vote. He never bucks the party, so he never ultimately brings about any real change. This was an important bill for him to stand firm on for once. Too bad he capitulated. The bill would have passed without his vote.

Amy asks Kucinch why he didn’t hold out for some goodies. Kucinch sez they weren’t budging on PO; it’s all about maintaining a private system.

Dennis, good luck with the ‘next’ health care bill that will have those items you value so much you’re willing to give up NOW so you can fight for them in 2038

Whimp

Amy asks whether Kucinich will respond to Jane Hamsher about giving back the money & he sez he’ll give it back.

They’re all self-centered pampered and priviledged little pricks with the possible exception of Bernie Sanders.

If EFCA gets anywhere it’ll be so watered down it’ll be worthless. Don’t need all that govt bullshit if workers would just join the IWW.

My thing with DK is just that after all this time he folds, unnecessarily imo, overnight. The Dem Party is just as corrupt as the Rethugs but it was nice to know that someone was going to be the lone voice of reason once in a while. It’s gotten to the point where all of the pols have developed the habit of saying exactly the opposite of what they’re going to do, unless they say up front they’re gonna fuck ya.

Soylent Green.

Didn’t Bernie vote for the Senate POS?

Juan asks Kucinich about role of unions, esp. SEIU. Kucinich sez unions are not a monolith, blah blah blah.

Citizen eCAHNomics:

A real test of the character of this guy, Kucinich, is that he said he’d give it back the first time Jane asked “im for it after the presser. And I find it interestin’ that Nader is appearin’ with Kucinich today to try and rehabilitate Kucinich with at least the four or five unregenerated Naderites left in the population. I think there’s much more goin’ on here than we who are suffering the main attack of final stage rogue capitalism can see.

In any case, there is nowhere to go but forward and we learned that politicians like field grade officers are worthless in a firefight.

I don’t see much alpha male in Obama, fwiw. He strikes me as more of a junior management type, good at office politics and CYA, nowhere to be found when work needs to be done. Whatever got Kucinich to fold, it wasn’t Obama’s idea.

Amy brings up the cost of war vs. medical care. Heard it all before & the weather is great, so I’m off. Wonderful day to everyone.

And just what is it that makes you surmise that Obama is “gettin the picture?” Expecting Obama go “get rid of Tiny Dancer” is as likely for Mr. Bipartisan as it was for the Decider to get rid of the Turd Blossom. All evidence at the present would suggest that Obama would relish working with a Republican controlled Congress.

After a years worth of flying BS has this American HCR been deeper or went much farther than the Clinton’s attempt back in early 90′s? No.

Did AHIP just win again only the win is being marketed differently by both AHIP and Obama WH and Democratic Party so this “win” closes out/shuts out a return engagement of single payer ideas for a decade or two? Yes.

We know American healthcare is all about the profits — profitcare as it were — so were the profits protected/extended/better entrenched here? Yes.

So this win goes to AHIP. The “reforms” claimed to be have been made make for a nice list but did they require a years worth of WashingotonDC two step and process hokum? No.Some health insurance law changes,rule changes and regulation changes could have done as much in one,two or three month process.

Has the needed reform of American healthcare off of for profit/employer based/being poor sucks/being rich makes it work much better taken place?

No.

About same result as the Clinton attempt.Framed and marketed better.

And which side was Barack Obama on? Who did he cut deals with and where did he expend his political capital? Honest answer here is not with poor,at big disadvantage Americans. He went with the money people.

We get to “elect” them. The money people “own and run them”.

Watched some of MSNBC this week. The propaganda was flowing out of the TV.

Compared to FDL conversation and viewpoints both Countdown and Rachel Maddow are truly painfully lame and way off in happy mindless blather territory. Some version of TV “news” reality that comes off as not being real. Is this what television was like in Soviet Union? Or is in China?

You know what is being said is not true or truthful but there it is.

This fraud laden HCR we are being told is going to be so wonderful ought to be quite the box of mislit fireworks debacles a year,two or three from now.

I can’t argue with any of that.

O’s alpha maleness didn’t come out until he couldn’t get his own HCR bill without it. I agree that his alpha maleness is weak, but what does that mean about Kucinich’s subservience to it?

That’s why the Democratic “Left” is such a tremendous waste of time.

Citizen SouthernDragon:

Ah yes, the Wobblies, now there’s some folks to go to a street fight with…Grampa Ole told me about those folks when he was workin’ the lumber camps, nuthin’ but good things to say.

Yeah, “It’s the best we could get” philosophy is exactly the reason this weak party has no future.

If the bill passes HCR is over. Does Kos really belive that congress or Obama will be picking through this carcass anytime during the remainder of his presidency?

This is what you supported. This is what you got.

Enjoy.

In fact, it will, if anything, only get worse.

The only tweaking will be done by Pharma or the insurance companies as they see fit.

HCR is over

Nothing is forever. A lot of us may be long dead but it will happen. I’m just gonna hafta work a little harder for it I spose.

Dennis. I don’t take back anything I said,Dennis Kucinch.We understand NO to Yes will put more of The People’s Health in the hands of Insurance Coders and not your Doctors that will be chosen by the insurance we have. Not by The People’s Freedom to choose.We may never visit Health Care Reforme again when the Health of ower children’s lives has been given to the Health Industry.

Didn’t you get the memo? This is the most awesome piece of health “care” legislation in the history of the world.

I like your term “profitcare.” Obama Profitcare has a nice ring to it.

Nobody knows why Kucinich did it but him. He doesn’t strike me even now as someone who would sell out as he did because of “Alpha male” type shit. Threats of violence or dirt on people he cares about are certainly possible when the stakes are this high.

Actually the fine for not having the health insurance looks affordable. It’s the one thing about this bill, in fact, which does look affordable. This will doubtless disturb the insurance companies, who will lobby to increase the fine.

This alpha male language is likely to be misinterpreted. Wisdom might lie in using different terms.

I think this is painfully true. When K’s vote counted he ran for cover.

Bluntly, I think Obama’s a lying little punk. I’m familiar with the type.

I disagree. Neo-libs or neo-cons. call them what you want. They are one and the same thing.

Citizen SouthernDragon:

I wish you could share your understandin’ of the struggle with some a the kids around here…’cuz after it’s all said and done there is only the struggle and it’s a hell of a lot better to accept that everyone has a role ta play and that it gets pretty lonely fightin’ it alone. Well off ta take 85 year old Mother to get a new eye…cataract surgery this AM. Namaste or whatever that is…

Funny how the liberals are never “my-way-or-highway” kind of guys.

A-freakin’-men. They should just change the party name to “The Kumbayahs.”

Idea: It’s about getting stories out there. Real, true stories of what happens to people going forward once this thing gets enacted.
What about a website that lists, individual by individual, each not-so-great thing that occurs, be it raised premiums, no real choice in “The Exchange” because they’re all charging the same, refusals of treatment and processes gone through to try and reinstate, etc.?
Could be pretty compelling. And with the specificity, along with names of real people…real events…real consequences…don’t think it could be ignored.

Don’t count on California doing anything for single-payer any time soon. In the governor’s race we have Meg Whitman in the lead, with her promise of a 10% across-the-board tax cut in a state which is about to fire 40% of its schoolteachers.

Good luck with Mom. Gonna hafta go through that myself if I can ever afford it.

What’s the difference between a BK special and a DK special?

With one you can have it your way and with one you can’t have it your way though DK said you could.

That paycheck the congress people receive is in exchange for spine.

Great idea.

I don’t know what you’re disagreeing about, but go ahead and disagree. Maybe more people will read the link and find out what it’s about.

Coffee party anyone?

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4,385

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,022

Iraki and Afghan casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2010: 9,424 and counting

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

Republics can always be counted on to propose tax cuts as the solution to every economic problem. Democrats can always be counted on to be unable to point out that Republic solutions never work.

But this health insurance insurance sure did take the war/depression and torture off of the front pages for more than a year, enough time to run out on SOL’s on a lot of thievery and assorted crimes.

They already are, but if you are someone without insurance(I am) there is nothing affordable of now not only not being able to afford decent insurance but also being fined.

The Democrats’ penchant to capitulate is what leads to Republican majorities, the Republicans’ trait of incompetence ushers in Democratic majorities, both parties’ desire to bleed the country dry to the benefit of themselves and their close relatives and associates, will ultimately lead to our demise as a nation.

Re: the fine…I’m assuming you saw there are TWO different formulas being used, and the one anybody gets slapped with is the one that will cost you, me the most? And as a percentage of your PRE-tax income, the eventual ongoing rate of penalty is being raised, year by year, up to 2.5% of that income? So for someone making $30,000 a year, penalty will be $750? Someone making $40,000 a year will be $1,000? $50,000 is gonna be $1,250?
P.S. Remember, the penalties are based on PRE-TAX income.
P.P.S. Also remember, there is NOTHING in the law that would prevent our merry band of robberbarons..from jacking the rates even higher. Nothing.
Blessings.

Prob a great article, but, this is your brain on DKos _____________

Oh, I fully expect the privatization of America’s public schools and the return of child labor. Don’t expect bankrupt states to enforce child labor laws any time soon.

America can’t afford its education system anymore, and that includes college. I’ve got a friend who’s getting her Bachelor’s this June: she’s out $55,000 in student loans and can’t get any money for graduate school. I did far better in the 1980s with a far less impressive resume of accomplishments.

Meanwhile Obama will be pursuing “entitlements reform” with a Republican Congress next year.

Obama was NEVER a leader in the truest sense of the word, he sat on his ass from Jan 22, 2009 until yesterday and “hoped” that if we clapped loud enough BiPartisan Tinkerbell would not die. As-fucking-If.

If EFCA or any other program that this speech-making fool passes, color moi pleasantly surprised, but neither EFCA nor any other “vital” piece of legislation that O-Rhama campaigned on will pass because our “Historical Figure(head)” in the Oval Office is not going to do jack shit except work the phones to raise money for Term 2, because Dog only knows, the folks who gave their last $10 to his campaign in 2008 aren’t going to do it again.

2012: Almost Any Dem but O-Rhama.

2.5% of income will appear mighty affordable when compared with the junk insurance which will be the alternative.

I’m not a ‘my-way-or-the-highway’ kind of guy

Of course one of the questions then is why did he want to have Obama’s job in the first place? Ignoring why Obama wants the job for the moment, it seems that DK is saying that he wanted the job because of the position rather than the ability for force change.

He says he’s a proponent of “Medicare for all” but is willing to settle for private insurance mandates with relatively unconstrained costs for private insurance. Adding a big fat excise tax designed to forcibly kill the part of the insurance cost paid by employers as an acceptable alternative. Protecting the corporate welfare provisions, until someone leads the way to a better alternative at some undefined future date. Forcing people to buy insurance from corporations and making sure that other corporations have a solid excuse for cutting their part to the insurance premium. Maybe the goal is to put so many people in health care danger through lack of effective insurance coverage that future politicians will have no choice but to fix this mistake as it contributes to civil unrest. Jiu jitsu politics using the Crane Method.

Seems like the only time a D has a spine is when they are kicking around whichever lefty that hasn’t discovered the joys of corporate assimilation.

Good Morning Blue Texan and Firedogs,

firedog Kelly Canfield has a great suggestion for what to do with your returned Kucinich donations .

it’s a very short diary, take a moment to read and rec it up.

Bingo! And THAT my friend is exactly what it was all about. Distract, distract, distract. And everyone fell for it. Everyone. Is there a need for reform? Yes. Are there far more important things that this Congress and President should have been doing for the last year? YES! And THAT is the real truth. Millions of unemployed who’ve lost their houses or are losing them AND their jobs, don’t give a sh*t about this entire scam. They want jobs. They want a place to live. There is a time and a place for everything and the last year was NOT the time and place for this healthcare scam.

This exemplifies the problem of representative democracy, the confusion between the collective good and individual desire (I want to get reelected). Before we get too exorcised with good old Dennis, we should try empathy, what would we do in his situation? Are we all stalwart, idealistic, courageous sorts who can be counted on to choose death before dishonor? Nothing personal, but I don’t think so.

All is not lost, but we must lose our need to follow leaders and we must think of new ways to organize ourselves on the internet. It’s either we the people or representatives who for one reason or another lose sight of why they were elected. Dennis is more to be pitied than censured. What does that make us who curse the darkness rather than seek the light?

What Margaret said.

both parties’ desire to bleed the country dry to the benefit of themselves and their close relatives and associates, will ultimately lead to our demise as a nation.

Fuckin’ A.

They learned from the Bush years how to perfect the Shock Doctrine. Now it’s institutionalized.

Ah yes, that unimpeachable source of information, the Daily Kos. There is no difference between partisan Democrats and partisan Republicans. Most of them are well educated, well off people with decent and stable insurance policies. None of them are as interested in policy as they are interested in how many people in government have a D versus how many have an R. No thanks. I’m perfectly capable of reading and analyzing information for myself without viewing it through the “we have to support __________________”, filter.

Recommended. And, that Kelly is surely a keeper too.
G’Morning Texas Cutie.

I am so damn tired of hearing the democratic fascist politicians and their fool progressive fascist supporters say this is the first step. Earth to fucking fools there will be no second step because you fools will be swept from office this fall due to your fascist health insurance bailout. Markos you little bitch you own this fascist bill.

I am so damn tired of hearing the democratic fascist politicians and their fool progressive fascist supporters say this is the first step

Hear! Hear! This is addressed to anybody who truly believes that: I have a nice bridge for sale. CHEAP!

mornin’ ! just loved his idea. seemed so obvious once I read it. and yes, he is truly a firedog and we are lucky to have him. after such a dark day, he and Eureka Springs had me up and ready to go again

Well, it seems we’ve reached the point where it’s impossible to deny the corruption of our government. Nader was right, same shit different pile. The process is always the same, both sides profess a principled pov to lull their base into inactivity, then at the end after all the noise what appears was what the corporations wanted, and Americans get fucked.

“Gee base, really sorry – it’s THEIR fault!”

Bear that in mind when cap and trade rolls around, trust none of them because they are all lying.

So? Read the version that was crossposted to Docudharma then.

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/17274/fundamental-flaws-in-progressive-ideology

So long New Deal, hello Raw Deal.

I’ve been very much pro cap and trade but after this fiasco, there can be no doubt that they will attempt to use this very real crisis and the mass extinction event that we are witnessing unfold around us to enrich and empower themselves further. The whole western world has become a culture of shiny baubles while we go down as the greatest failed civilization in history.

Kos is an arrogant newcomer to the political world who thinks he has the answers to everything.

Rep Kucinich has been fighting and working for the public good most of his life. I trust what Dennis says and continues to fight for far more than the ego maniacal rants of Kos.

Rep Kucinich “I’m not a ‘my-way-or-the-highway’ kind of guy,” he said. “This is a first step. By no means is this bill the bill that I wanted. I’ve been highly critical of it, and I don’t take back anything I said.”

WHERE THE HELL WAS JANE IN THAT CLIP. THEY MENTION JANE AND THEN DO NOT HAVE HER ON TO ARGUE HER STANCE. WEAK AND PATHETIC ON THE PART OF THE PRODUCERS OF KEITH’S PROGRAM

So long New Deal, hello Raw Deal.

I knew we were screwed during the primaries, when the favorite tactic of the Obama supporters was to call their fellow Democrats racists.

“Cap and trade” is of course a sham.

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/17894/to-solve-the-climate-change-problem-end-the-class-divide

There is no difference between the two terms. You seem to differentiate. Neo-cons/libs want globalism. That is they are trying to destroy democracies (Iceland, Greece) and have the world controlled by multi-national corporations. Richard Haas, neo-con leader who runs the CFR literally says our government should be controlled by the richest man in the world, Bill Gates, and the most corrupt corporation ever, Goldman Sachs. Except, Goldman Sachs already has already hijacked the government and given us oil wars.

“This was a detour,” the Ohio Democrat told CNN’s “Larry King Live.”

Good luck finding your way back to the single-payer highway, Dennis. You can always ask for directions at FDL.

Oh they did that with “health insurance reform” too:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/16/13056/0019

I’ve wondered

Listen to Markos. What a hypocrite.

Markos “This is not about a single vote. This is about a pattern of votes” This is the same arrogant ass who threatened a primary challenge (impossible) to Rep Kucinich just a week or so ago if Rep Kucinich voted No on this legislation. What a hypocrite. Kucinich has the most progressive voting record of almost any other Rep. And Kos was ranting just a while back about he was willing to stir up a primary campaign against Dennis.

This was a moment that Markos should have apologized for his insane rant just a while back. What contradictions, what hypocrisy out of him.

Jane did MSNBC call to have you on the program? Did they make an effort?

“Neoconservative” is a subset of “neoliberal.” All neoconservatives are neoliberals but not all neoliberals are neoconservatives. Not all neoliberals, for instance, belong to PNAC.

The interntet would lend itself to this well I think.

Personally I am able to say as a uninsured American who is taking care of a elderly parent who is not rich and on SS/Medicare and is unable to navigate any paperwork trails/paths if this so called Obama/AHIP HCR creates more paperwork,more processing hoops,loops and oops it will have failed already. We are in process of getting more care for my parent and the paperwork/records search/information compile and sort out is such we have a professional coming in to help complete the forms and process.

Making things more complicated,more based on employment/income triggers and application paperwork and record compilations at mercy of AHIP run healthcare puts many Americans at extreme disadvantage. Now they want to bring in the IRS to make it more dicey for poor,near poor,not lucky or undereducated,unemployed,underemployed Americans?

I think Barack Obama and his family should get the same deal I am getting as a family caregiver who has no health insurance. See how he likes being at the mercy of chance and unforseen circumstances. I bet he would be doing a different talk and walk might damn quick. What a prick this guy has turned out to be. He jumped in bed with AHIP/PhRMA last year and made sure single payer got taken off the menu period and sabotaged any PO as well. What an asshole.

We got rid of G.W.Bush for this guy? What a letdown. Sad thing is we are stuck with him for at least three more years. Or worst yet another seven years if his BS flinging does not catch up with him by 2012.

I want Medicare For All,One Card System with no difference from one city to next city,from one state to next state. Where ever I am the deal is the same. One system. One payer. Open access. Knowable delivery.

Social Security and Medicare are already in place and can be built off of for American Single Payer/Medicare For All/ American MedSecure Plan idea.

Barack Obama is a sell out. His D Party little better or different than the R Party. In fact worse because they make claims the R’s do not make.

Pitchforks and torches time folks. They will not get it otherwise.

Good luck finding your way back to the single-payer highway, Dennis. You can always ask for directions at FDL.

Would anyone at FDL give him the time of day next time there’s a fight to be fought?

He had an opportunity to make history by standing up to the corruption that is ruining the country and failing the American people. And when it came time to stand strong, he folded.

EFCA is another sham. Labor is in for a very rude awakening.

Cap and trade, according to financial industries, would be a boon because it taxes the consumers (mostly the middle class) for the express purpose of making trading in carbon pollution a profit center. Some of the California regulators (I’m missing the link right now) who were involved in a variation of it said it failed to reduce pollution and provided incentives to keep environmental regulations unchanged. Cap and trade would make profits for traders who will then probably attempt to keep regulations off the books in order to protect the market. Strong local environmental regulations are contrary to the goals of cap and trade.

As I understand it, there’s a difference.

Neoconservatives think that they’re using the people to serve the interests of corporations. Neoliberals think that they’re using the corporations to serve the interests of the people.

I’d say that the biggest difference between them is that the neoconservatives know what they’re doing, while the neoliberals are just delusional idiots.

Was anyone as impressed as I was by O’Donnell casting Markos as the reasonable one who’s just being practical and Jane as the idealist – i.e. the “unreasonable” – one?

Pitchforks and torches indeed. Maybe when the unions get shafted on EFCA they’ll see the light but likely the union leadership will tell their members to just shut up and accept a watered down meaningless bill. The collapse of the commercial real estate market in the next 2-3 years may well be the catalyst that sends tens of millions out on the streets.

Yeah, he’s good at folding to Obama. He did it with his delegates.

“Obama and I have one thing in common: Change.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502163_162-3664667-502163.html

Ha ha ha!

neoliberals are just delusional idiots

You are far too kind. The Dee Cee villagers favorite “neo-lib” is Cass Sunstein. He wants censorship imposed because the confidence in the government is being undermined by all the revelations about neo-con/lib crimes.

It’s not about “debate”, it’s about presenting a point of view.

Okay, maybe I should have been more clear: I’m very much pro legislation to address the crisis that we’ve caused in the Earth’s atmosphere. I did point out that cap and trade is probably nothing but a profit making enterprise.

No need to cherry pick. Blame the whole CIA, not just an individual member (Markos).

Well, O’s got The Corporation on his side. they probably told him to get butch.
can’t fight The Corporation anymore, not in Washington.

Obama probably promised Kucinich that he’s Wellstone him if he didn’t get with the program. Talk about an incentive!

If you really want to address the problem with abrupt climate change, you’re going to have to put an end to the capitalist system, which operates upon a basic modus operandi of constant increases in consumption of fossil fuels. “Alternative energy” will only serve (under capitalism) as a supplement to fossil fuel consumption until it is too late, and at that point the system will just collapse anyway.

Lawrence O’Donnell adds insult to injury when he asks – Is where we are now in effect proving Rahm right that he was taking the liberal side for granted – they will be there no matter what we drop out of this bill. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In other news, General Betrayus, the warmongering piece of “whatever the wind blows” sets up the new war with Iran…nice

On Tehran’s ties to al Qaeda, Gen. Petraeus said the group “continues to use Iran as a key facilitation hub, where facilitators connect al Qaedas senior leadership to regional affiliates.”

“And although Iranian authorities do periodically disrupt this network by detaining select al Qaeda facilitators and operational planners, Tehrans policy in this regard is often unpredictable,” he stated in written testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/17/tehran-aiding-al-qaeda-links-petraeus-says/

Is that the smell, of yet another war on the horizon from the Nobel Peace Prize winning president?

The whole point of Obama’s strong arm tactics vis a vis Dennis K was basically to serve as an object lesson to real leftists. Basically…”don’t screw with us, or you’ll be beaten into submission.”

Somewhere along the line you gotta start fighting. That time is now. They are/have been declaring class war on us.

Kucinich was on this morning’s Democracy Now, and Nader was there as well.
What a study in contrasts. I sensed Kucinich was blathering.. trying to talk his way out of a bad vote…hesitating….equivocating..
Nader, however, came out swinging and appeared to be very decisive about his position against corporate profiteers in the health insurance industry..
I just faxed this note to Kucinich at his D.C. Office:

I watched you this morning on Democracy Now, and your whole position in the aftermath of your press conference is very disturbing.

You looked like a beaten down man, who could not muster the courage to vote according to your hard fought principles. (Please read, John F Kennedy’s, PROFILES IN COURAGE)

Ralph Nader, by comparison fleshed out the sham of this so called HCR bill. . that those who are uncovered by insurance will not avail of its provisions until 2014. In the meantime, hundreds of thousands of Americans will die.

Dennis, you know full well that a robust public option or buy in to Medicare would have accomplished coverage for needy Americans in just a few months.
You had had a defining moment to make a difference. If Blanche Lincoln and Senator Landrieu from Louisiana cut their own deals by holding out, then YOU COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME and in the process, would have won the support of the American people.

You have disappointed so many who believed in you.

Sorry but once this insurance interest entrenched bill is passed, it will be virtually impossible to make real, progressive change, and on top of that you will never be trusted again. (Please watch Dr. Marsha Angell’s segment on Bill Moyers Journal where the bill is appropriately analyzed as a basic giveaway to profiteering insurance companies)

Finally, how on earth can you run around the country championing single payer or a strong public option, if you capitulated and voted for a bill that will hurt Americans and keep the status quo in full force.

We’re going to need a draft to improve the employment numbers, and give people something more to worry about than their lack of health care and house-payment sized insurance premiums and unaffordable medications, don’t you know?

nah… this was the big one as far as joe public was concerned. He can touch and feel health care. Financial reform would have to be real and people put on trial , neither of those things will happen. Dems are toast absent large scale fraud to keep them in place.For example you see boxer’s poll numbers down huge vs. repub challengers in just 6 weeks ?

By putting a loaded gun to Kucinich’s head and demanding that he vote “yes” or die, Obama, the alpha male of the Blue Dogs, has driven the final nail in the coffin of the Democratic Party. Obama and his vicious pack of Blue Dogs have fully republicanized the Democratic Party. Thanks to them, the Democratic party is now playing second fiddle as the party for the rich, leaving the non-rich of our country party-less. So nothing short of a revolution — at the grass roots, of course, and a potentially bloody one at that — is needed to prevent our middle class from fall into the ranks of the poor.

“Workers of the world Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!” Where is Karl Marx when we need him most!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/greatest_philosopher_vote_result.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9jg

“Funny how the liberals are never “my-way-or-highway” kind of guys.”

Premise 1: The close-mindedness of “my-way-or-highway” is antithetical to the principles of liberalism.
Premise 2: Firedoglake seems to be chock-full of “my-way-or-highway” kind of guys people.
Conclusion: Firedoglake is not a liberal site.

There are lots of socialists here. Kinda cool, isn’t it?

Speaking of Villagers, O’Donnell (believe it or not) had an excellent point last night on the Charlie Rose Kabuki show: He said something like the CBO uses a great deal of “fantasy” in their predictions, that they sit back and wait to see which way the political tide leans and tilt their estimates to support that position. Someone needs to get him to elaborate.

Bye.

The idea is to get the best legislation possible, for EVERYONE not just “us” or “we”, so the thesis of FDL not being liberal is probably false.

After watching “progressives” embrace an “Our way (AHIP that is), or no way,” healthcare bill written by AHIP and for PhRMA, I’d have to say those liberals don’t know what they themselves are.

“Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!”

I’d have to say those liberals don’t know what they themselves are.

Oh yes they do. They are called Dems. Not liberal, not progressive, but party faithful that like to call themselves progressive and liberal, like there is some world where it states that Dems are lib and progressive. Reality is that the Dems told progressives and real liberals to shut up and go away, we don’t need you. And if you need proof, go to HuffPost, DKos, C&L, Digby, etc. They play this card ALL the time. Easy to spot too. They are the sites that call this sham Healthcare Reform, when it isn’t and they know it.

touche’

Let’s say I’m eligible for Canadian or UK health care.

If I have an open ticket to Canada or UK, can I call that my health insurance plan?

Chewbacca is an illegal immigrant? I’m shocked, shocked.

And Kos’s “point of view” is often full of serious contradictions and inflamed rhetoric

I’m a leftist, in the European mold. The USians hate European leftists–and to a degree Europeans themselves. I don’t blame the anti-American feeling in Europe. The US is an infantile nation, full of ignorant, entitled babies.

Clinton and Obama despise European leftists,IMO. That’s why they like to hippy punch us.

Thanks to them, the Democratic party is now playing second fiddle as the party for the rich

This is news? The Democratic Party has always been the party of the rich. Its “second fiddle” status was cemented in ’81 with Reagan.

If you are a Canadian citizen, you are already covered by healthcare. Each province is a little different, but, the healthcare is basically the same. You can buy extra insurance to cover diff things if you want it, but if you go to a family doctor, you are covered without being sent bills. In Ontario, they tell you on your income tax forms how much your share of the cost is.

Holy crap, and just how does that system support any yachts for executives? Pinkos.

Firedoglake is not a liberal site.

I keep saying that also. Liberals such as DKos and HuffPo practice censorship.

He came to Endor to deal drugs and take advantage of their healthcare. He’s a filthy long hair and they don’t need his kind on their planet (at least not as many as keep going there). He’s the real reason their economy and healthcare system are in the tank.

Passing Obamacare is going to set back real health care reform for another 10 or 20 years.

Unfortunately, until the private health care system crashes, I doubt there will be any meaningful reform. That could take another 30-40 years, possibly.

We’ve had a corporate takeover of our country, a silent takeover. Obama tap danced in on a platform of hope and change. If someone with that kind of election rhetoric reveals himself to be a corporate toady, we are all effed.

Not even George Bush would send the IRS after us for 2.5 percent of our income if we didn’t buy a product from a corrupt industry.

Obama is a corporate hack of the most craven and evil kind.

Revolution starts now.

Humans of the world, unite! I don’t think Americans self-identify in the same class-bound terms as European political theorists propose.

I’m not a worker, I’m a human being, a self-sovereign citizen, not just a factor of production. All that does is set up another “Us v. Them” dynamic, of which the world is too full already.

Citizens of the world, unite! It’s the best thing to do with brains.

That said, I totally agree with your obituary for the Democratic Party. And the following comment @121 fits very nicely. Steve Benen, of the Washington Monthly, recently advised Dems to adopt the Republican strategies and methods. Brilliant! Then there’d be two major parties dedicated to kicking our asses.

The Republicans have a strategy for kicking Democratic Party ass, not for forming our more perfect Union. But the Dems have, indeed, done just as you said, Cynthia.

THE REAL NEWS NETWORK FEBRUARY 3, 2010: Progressives and the Democratic Party Pt.2

JEFF COHEN: What’s not talked about as much is that there was a parallel movement that started in the 1980s, which was to take the other major party, the historic party of the people, the Democratic Party, and turn it more toward the corporate right. And what happened in the 1980s—and it was in fear of these same forces—labor unions, new left, antiwar, environmentalist, feminist. There was this sense that the Democratic Party was too allied with these movements, these social movements that were representing millions of people, so the Democratic Leadership Council was set up. It was set up, funded by oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, tobacco companies, some of the biggest companies in the country. It was largely a corporate front inside the Democratic Party to fight the movements in the Democratic Party and move the leadership of the party toward corporate prerogatives. Who were the leaders of it? Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman. … So now let’s move to 2006, and a new group is formed as part of this constellation of moving the Democratic Party to the corporate right, and it’s a group called the Alexander Hamilton Project of the Brookings Institution. And the director of it is Robert Rubin, who had been the Treasury Secretary for Clinton, had been at Goldman Sachs and, later, Citigroup. Roger Altman had been US Treasury Department under Clinton. And there’s an amazing thing. And this group is set up for budget deficit, international trade, taking on the teachers union, and they had their founding meeting in April 2006. And only one US senator shows up to speak at this founding meeting, and that’s a very new senator, Barack Obama from Illinois, who’s only been in Washington a little over a year. So for a lot of us who were tracking Obama in 2007, of course he got a lot of $25 and $50 donations from people that really wanted change they could believe in, but in 2007, way before he was a front-runner, he was out-fundraising all the other candidates from Wall Street. And it was something I’ve never quite been able to figure out. There were two presidential candidates from the state of New York, Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton, and Obama was out-fundraising them from Wall Street early in ‘07. Now, Wall Street money and corporate money always goes to the front-runner. Obama was getting this money before he was the front-runner. So the missing piece to the puzzle is this clip where Obama is the only senator who shows up at the Alexander Hamilton Project.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP] SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): Thank you very much. I would love just to sit here with these folks and listen, because you’ve got on this panel and in this room some of the most innovative, thoughtful policymakers. I want to thank Bob and Roger and Peter for inviting me to be here today. I wish I could be here longer.

COHEN: By the way, Alexander Hamilton in American history was, you know, leader of the Federalist Party, was seen as the elitist party. And the Democratic Party of Thomas Jefferson was founded as a party of the people that would challenge the elitism of Alexander Hamilton. And here you have all these Wall Street Democrats setting up this group, had Obama as their first speaker from the US Senate, and in the clip Obama says that he wants to thank Bob, Roger, and Peter. Bob is Robert Rubin. Roger is Roger Altman. These are Clinton Wall Street Democrats. And who’s Peter? It’s Peter Orszag, the first founding director of the Hamilton Project, who then becomes, later, Obama’s head of Office of Management and Budget. So what you’ve had is the Democratic Party since the ’80s, big corporate money going in there, trying to elevate these candidates, giving them money, giving them a lot of media protection. This is a Democrat who can get elected, who can appeal to those swing voters. And so we’ve had Clinton, Gore, Lieberman, and now Obama that are part of this. Now, Obama was never close to the Democratic Leadership Council, but it’s interesting that a newer incarnation of Wall Street Democratic think tank, he’s there at their founding meeting. [Emphasis and link added.]

Obama’s fealty to the Wall Street Democrats is our real problem. And more generally, the ethos of greed, of everyone wanting to be a billionaire. We may carp about their wealth, but many of us secretly desire to be rich, rich, rich, not just comfortable. Vices tend to turn into virtues, just as soon as one is able to indulge in them.

Bottom line: we don’t need no stinking corpse of Marx to lead us out of this Waste Land (no disrespect for his elegant theories). We need fully human self-sovereign citizens to become the heroes and heroines of our own life stories.

Here’s my paraphrase of the worst type of comments here:

O powerful and principled politician, save us save us save us! Oh you damn dirty ape, you didn’t save us! Go to hell, I never liked you anyway. Next! (Repeat ad nauseum).

I disagree. Without some kind of class struggle, there is no human freedom. The reason why so many people are unhappy here (look at all the shooting/suicides) is because of the elite’s class war on us. Yes, this is only one component of being human, but right now, at this time, in this stage of our development, it is a VERY big part of who we are.

How did Medicarare part D score with the CBO ?

yep. I dislike the pinos cause they support the wrong things and because they are wimpy and deferential. No way they will get my vote in 2012.

It really is, I suppose. In all sincerity, I wish America was a socialist country, and I hope eventually it will evolve into one, but for now we’re stuck with the citizenry we have rather than the citizenry we wish we had.

Agreed. I like to dream! That’s how they did it in the Sixties. Boy, do we need a resurgence of that kind of thinking! That’s what’s wrong with the US. We’re stuck with too pragmatists and not enough dreamers and idealists.

Right. If he does not tow the FDL line Markos is a Reagan youth, CIA operative and Republican.

Wow. Maybe they will both run in 2012…Nader Prez, Dennis V Prez.

I think what we’re stuck with is too many “my-way-or-highway” kind of guys people. They create the kind of infighting that has killed the right-wing in this country (hasta la vista, MFs), and they don’t advance the cause of the left. You hope we become America in the 60s, I fear we become Spain in the 30s.

Freedom is inalienable; liberty is not. We aren’t at liberty to form our more perfect Union. Why is that? Aye, now there’s the rub.

How do most Americans self-identify? Not as workers, as “middle-class,” irrespective of actual incomes. I’ve read Zinn’s classic, I’m fully aware that the basic business model of our government has been plantation America from the very beginning. I’m talking about how Americans self-identify individually.

For most people, war is the way the world was made to work. People say, as Obama did, “Make no mistake: Evil does exist in the world.” Oh really? Can I get me a pound of that, with a side of fries and a shake? No, make that a bottle of holy water to wash it down, and a nice holy air space breeze blowing in my barely-there hair.

The implication being, of course, that some of us are Evil, some of us are Good; by opposing the USA, they reveal themselves to be Evil, so it’s our righteous duty to rid the world of evil-doers, right? In this way, like all the presidents before him, Obama preaches a bogus holy war from the bully pulpit.

For many others, such as Buddhists like myself, life is not a war. It’s more like a dance.

So talking about life as an American in terms of class warfare, to Americans who dream of lives of leisure, hasn’t been a winning strategy. I don’t think most Americans want to be workers, we want to be the kings and queens of our own castles.

I cast it in terms of inalienable human rights. I see more potential for organizing people as fully-human self-sovereign citizens, than as representatives of this or that group. For example, I don’t want consumer protection, I want sovereign protection from the robber barons who think it’s their god-given right to screw us royally and call it good governance.

I don’t want worker or employee rights, I demand my rights as a human being, as a self-sovereign American citizen. And so on.

Class warfare, IMO, adds more fuel to the fires of dividum et imperium. I don’t deny that classes exist, nor that we are being targeted by elites. But I’m not going to join that battle. I’m not at all interested in making war of any kind.

Humans of the world, unite! It’s the best use you can make of your brains.

Well, when things get a lot worse–and they will–class war is inevitable. Call it what you like. It’s all semantics. You have to define your enemy before progress can be made. I think your critique is a bit too nebulous. Plus, we need to be organized around concrete ideas. The elites don’t want us to do that. That’s why they continually talk about the “middle class” What is the middle class? Workers. If you are a wage slave, you are a worker. The elites don’t work, they push paper.

Meanwhile Obama will be pursuing “entitlements reform” with a Republican Congress next year.

Yep, it ain’t like the relationship with progressives will improve in the future. Just write off the dems and work on individual issues.

uberVU is back. Do not feed.

Obama can’t be all that much of a power-hungry, money-grubbing corporate Democrat, otherwise he would’ve had Kucinich killed in a plane crash, instead of taking him for a friendly ride on Air Force One. But this still don’t take away from the fact that Obama is doing a major Wellstoning of Kucinich!!!

I think FDL folk have been using the public option as a litmus test when in fact it was always a bogus political construct. I think Kucinich made a calculation and realized that falling on his sword for a bogus political construct rather than the real thing, single payer, didn’t make sense. The whole notion of increasing “choice” in healthcare is misleading and a cop-out of instituting either national basic health insurance or making health insurers essentially non-profit public-good corporations with strict regulation.

So the DK bashing here I think is a little overblown.

Also, O’Donnell and Mole-itsus slobbering for O.

I don’t understand how most of you can justify throwing DK under the bus for his switch. This is complete giveaway to the Insurance Companies, just like the Bail-Out didn’t do shhh for Main Street and wasn’t designed too.

This is watered down nonsense that’s “better than nothing”, “the alternative is worst” and any other excuse the left uses to console itself when it fails.

Listen, its about Local Politics. This is where the Modern Republican Party started; with Dog Catcher and low level circuit judges. You need to first turn your Red State into a Purple State if you can’t make it Blue. Then you need to force Progressive changes in law (locally) because most Governors can’t afford to play partisan bullsh*ht you see at the Federal Level.

What this fight for Health Care has done is expose many people, now its going to take hard work to get these morons out of office, but that’s just what has to happen. The country is polarized, instead of trying to find middle ground, we need a purity test on our side because this country is in too much trouble to be f’ing around with bi-partisanship. If there are Conservatives willing to go along on certain policy issues, that’s fine, but we need to move and become the HARD LEFT not the FAR LEFT.

They use dirty tricks and tactics so can we. Being civil has gotten us nothing but watered down legislation that we’ll have to re-visit in 5-10 years because it doesn’t do what its suppose to do.

If the Republicans can talks about forever Republican Rule, how come we’re not talking on a grand scale? Has 30-40 years of Social Democracy in Western Europe been a complete failure?

HARDLY!

Then its time to stop bitching about this lost cause of health care and move right into crunch time.

Its time for the Corporatist Democrats to PAY THE PIPER

You said it, I totally agree with the last point. I’m just not going to define any aspect of my life as warfare.

Whence the idea of life as war? How will stepping into that mythos do anything but concede defeat to TPTB? And if we become TPTB, how will our imperium be any different, if it’s a product of yet another battlefield? Victor’s history, and the peace of the aftermath of slaughter, is not my idea of progress.

Too nebulous, you say? Let’s get real. Who or what do you think you, and all humans, are? How is the cosmos composed, how does it function, and what does that imply about our proper human role in it?

What is life: a fluky construct of blind mechanical forces, or the private property of a ruler-maker-god-king, a political master endowed with limitless kinetic power? Is the cosmos, and us along with it, the construct of god’s own justice-dispensing machine: eg., the economy as conceived by the Prosperity Gospel; or is it, and us along with it, the construct of Newton’s mechanism, nothing divine or special — in any sense — about it or us? Are we god’s own private property, or no one’s own mechanisms?

These are the two dominant myths of the West (broadly defined as the world west of Persia/Iran). They are equally patrirachal and phallocentric: kinetic power, leverage, is the central idol. They’re equally feudal in their historical roots. Dicking with Mother Nature, in either version, is the epitome of the Good Life.

There are other ways of being human. Other, much older ways. Ways that are seen, more and more, to be perfectly metaphorical of, eg, quantum mechanics.

So who or what are you, what are we, how does the cosmos function, how do we effect political change, how are you hearing these unspoken words I’m typing?

Real enough for ya?

Great, thanks for this.

Kucinich got his creds by proposing impeachment of Cheney, pulling out of Afghanistan TOMORROW, feats like that, where he can stand in the shadow of the gigantic majority of reps who are ignoring him, looking tiny and harmless, a “lovable kook” as one here referred to him. The things he takes a stand on will never catch on with his “colleagues” and he knows it, so he feels safe doing it. First time he found himself not in shadow, but the BLINDING SPOTLIGHT, where his stand was going to make THE DIFFERENCE, he blanched like a man falling ill before our eyes, and scurried to be one of the rat pack as fast as he could go.

I don’t see how voting against the bill would be “falling on his sword,” either. Sad how all this in the end is about what’s good for the politician, and we accept that, and adopt its language, like fangirls and fanboys.

I wish Kucinich had been as “similar” to Ron Paul as he’s often given credit for being. Can you imagine Ron Paul ever capitulating or compromising? Shux, he named his kid Rand. L-O-L.

@ michaelsfb: d’oh, I confused your comment with that of veganrevolution. Sorry, pal, I bow in your virtual direction.

Righteous Indignation Screed #123456, Take 2: veganrevolution, I’m looking at you.

Whence the idea of life as war? How will stepping into that mythos do anything but concede defeat to TPTB? And if we become TPTB, how will our imperium be any different, if it’s a product of yet another battlefield? Victor’s history, and the peace of the aftermath of slaughter, is not my idea of progress.

Too nebulous, you say? Let’s get real. Who or what do you think you, and all humans, are? How is the cosmos composed, how does it function, and what does that imply about our proper human role in it?

What is life: a fluky construct of blind mechanical forces, or the private property of a ruler-maker-god-king, a political master endowed with limitless kinetic power? Is the cosmos, and us along with it, the construct of god’s own justice-dispensing machine: eg., the economy as conceived by the Prosperity Gospel; or is it, and us along with it, the construct of Newton’s mechanism, nothing divine or special — in any sense — about it or us? Are we god’s own private property, or no one’s own mechanisms?

These are the two dominant myths of the West (broadly defined as the world west of Persia/Iran). They are equally patrirachal and phallocentric: kinetic power, leverage, is the central idol. They’re equally feudal in their historical roots. Dicking with Mother Nature, in either version, is the epitome of the Good Life.

There are other ways of being human. Other, much older ways. Ways that are seen, more and more, to be perfectly metaphorical of, eg, quantum mechanics.

So who or what are you, what are we, how does the cosmos function, how do we effect political change, how are you hearing these unspoken words I’m typing?

Real enough for ya?

Also: how do you reconcile being vegan and advocating class warfare? Is it ok to kill other animals, as long as it’s For the Right Cause, and you can’t legally have one as a pet? Or as long as we don’t plan on eating them? What are the horizons of your empathic compassion?

Obama is a political actor just like at minimum: RayGun, likely Clinton, and Bush II.

I actually respected DK for two nights – when he attacked Obama and H Clinton for tripping over themselves to say they would nuke Iran & the night he lied and said he was still a no-vote. He was never going to be prez anyway.

Well we can remove Kucinich from any further consideration for higher elected office if the backing of the left has anything to say about it . Dump him along with Pelosi and the rest of these vile cowards.

I guess they assume that the left can be placated wbow lavishly before Obamaith cheap talk, well I guess these would be liberals or progressives or whatever the they claim to be will try to talk their heads off when it comes to asking for campaign support from the left.

This Kucinich is as either a sell out or a monumental idiot. If his support among the left was real then why the fuck bow slavishly before Obama and get nothing in return for his wimpish and self denigrating efforts.

The public should take the measure of this ashole; Kucinich like the rest can simply not be taken seriously. Like the political class from top to bottom they all have no notion of principle. The public should rebuke this sham and rotten attempt at HCR legislation that has been written by and for the health industry. The people geenrally should be convinced once and for all that they have no one to defend their interests in government.

It is long past time to look for alternatives to this decrepit den of thieves, shylocks and servile whores who mascarade as public servants. What a putrid spectacle we are made to endure.

Agreed that the prop is flowing thick. Too bad KO is not around at least.

But it has been interesting looking at how actual left media sells things. I do not agree that media is controlled by the “left”, but there are some sources. You know what they choose to cover, how, etc.

Lawrence is a sack of poop insider, at least from what I can gather. I watched a bit 2 days ago to see DK waffle. Then I realized I had not been watching because I am sick of it, and also because KO has not been there.

They fed the threat to Obama and he acted it out. I would guess it was a full out primary against him with about 10000x more effort than the MA Croakly disaster.

Markos appears to be head of the cheerleading squad for the Admin and DLC. Is that what it means to be a Progressive. I can’t tell.

Just like Stupidpack aborition stuff was to distract from the sucky bill. It will fail though – its like wow what brave Dems, the decided to roll back rights 20 years rather than 35.

Or the powder v crack sentencing… they decided to make the penelty for being African American drug addict only 18x more than white rather than keep it at 100x.

Just like we need to study if its OK to give gays civil rights.

I think they are telling everyone to f-off pretty clearly.

Agreed, R’s can’t call it Socialist and Fascist for very long at the same time. But once its passed they will start to call it fascist for the most part. Small chance that they wont since they are also fascist and really love it deep down.

If people will kill for a crust of bread, or a fancy new sneakers… they sure will kill for a Trill-ion.

Haha – hope that was snark… it sure ain’t logic even if you use the word “premise” or whatever.