More evidence, if any more be needed, that Obama not only is NOT a progressive, he’s not even a Democrat. He’s essentially a Rockefeller Republican: give Wall St. and the banks all they want, continue the expansion of the American empire through wars, stoke the profits of the military industrial complex, and screw average Americans.

Obama never supported or fought for the public option as president and he talked not of “health care reform” but of “insurance reform”. He wants to help out the profits of the insurance companies by mandating coverage and he wants those companies to kick back money to his administration and the Democratic party. Is this much different than what Rod Blagoyovich was doing and what he is under indictment for?

Obama is part of the problem, not part of the solution. A real Democrat (Feingold, Howard Dean) should primary him in 2012.

Lately when I hear about reconciliation, I can’t help but think of that song by “Pain of Salvation”

Can someone remind me again WHY Rahm Emanuel has this rep as a saavy political operative?

Sorry, but I just ain’t seein’ it.

The Democratic Party is not progressive. The Democratic Party is part of the problem, not part of the solution. A real progressive should break from the Democrats and run on their own ticket in 2012. As long as the left’s vote is taken by the D party for granted, nothing will ever change, and there’s much more evidence that this is by design than by accident.

So let me get this straight: Obama wants the Senate to take the drastic measure of ramming a sidecar through reconciliation …

I don’t think he really does. And will find a reason why that is impossible.

Really nice (and depressing) takedown.

Is it possible that he left his brains in his other pants?

This is really simple.

The Senate bill was crafted in such a way as to get 60 votes for cloture from Senate Democrats and those who caucus with them. The Senate bill sucks and is unpopular. So now that we’re talking about using reconciliation to pass a bill through the Senate, we should be getting a far better deal than the crap that is the Senate bill.

This isn’t complicated at all.

Is it Reid who doesn’t get it?

Is it Rahm who doesn’t get it?

Is it Obama who doesn’t get it?

If they don’t fight for real reform (fight for more on behalf of the American people), they should expect the American people not to bother supporting or voting for them.

He seems to be okay with reconciliation as long as it doesn’t result in any meaningful improvement.

So now that we’re talking about using reconciliation to pass a bill through the Senate

I think all the talk is pure bullshit. Obama is not intending to use reconciliation at all.

At this point, I’m so disgusted with it all that the only way I’ll EVER vote for another Democrat at the national level is if Howard Dean primaries Obama.

DEAN/KUCINICH 2012!

Reconciliation is when the minority’s bill is passed by majority rule… or something…

The difference between no reconciliation and trivial reconciliation is, well, trivial. Except for the Republican reaction. Although I suppose he could consider the firestorm a good thing, a sign that he really *is* able to stand up to the Republicans.

I think it’s a bluff — all of it — to bring the Republicans to the table. Same old strategy. But I could be wrong.

Exactly.

If Obama’s proposal is the starting point to be compromised *from*, then why even bother at all? What’s half of Very Little?

Listening to Schakowski discuss the Stupak Amendment with Rachel, leaves me wondering how many people Stupak’s willing to allow to die so he can further hijack or hamstring healthcare reform.

C’mon, Stupak, what’s your magic daily number?

Because people are dying while Washington fiddles around.

There doesn’t appear to be any other way to get to a bill that he can sign. So you’re saying that Obama’s willing to let it die? I don’t think so. What’s bullshit is using reconciliation in order to get shit.

I think the real objective here is to exert pressure for some Republicans to cross over. And the optics of him being in the lead for once and being bipartisan. I really don’t see him resorting to reconciliation. Especially if the Republicans show up with reasonable demands.

But I could be missing something.

Rs do not make reasonable demands and the Dems have caved in to every demand the Rs have already made. What’s left?

Tort reform. Getting rid of the mandate. Getting rid of the Cadillac tax. All things that are pure bullshit but might appeal to the public.

I’m probably all wet on this but I think their (Rs) objective will be to make a reasonable case that Congress should start all over.

You aren’t all wet, IMHO.
The Democrats have been making that case for months.

It hit me today why Obama is REALLY blowing off the PO:

Next up in his bag of tricks is “entitlement reform”…

How could he possibly expand Medicare (or Medicare’s clone) if he is in fact about to gut it?

That is really what’s going on here… selling out to phrma and insurance is obvious… but that alone is not reason enough to blow off the PO.

Preparing to gut Medicare is the cause.

A) The Republicans are irresponsible and infantile and have made themselves largely irrelevant.

B) The Republicans know better than to set making a reasonable case as one of their objectives. They’re not good at “reasonable” and being reasonable doesn’t get them too far with their base.

The issue here is that too many Democrats are sellouts and too many are weaklings.

Yes! A handful of Republicans will cross over and fall on the sword to help drag this bill across the finish line for their corporate masters. They’ll be richly rewarded when they’re voted out of office, and Obama will claim a “bipartisan” victory.

Next up in his bag of tricks is “entitlement reform”…

I’ve always seen this as the real cost of passing the shit Senate bill. It would validate and encourage use of a strategy that would spell disaster for entitlement programs. That’s why, when fellow dems say the bill is better than nothing — “millions will be saved” — I don’t buy it.

This guy — and the slimy crew around him — are a fucking disaster and can’t be trusted with anything that is important to us.

This was looking like a possibility about a week ago, but the rhetoric of the Republican leadership suggests that we can expect them to fight to the end and obstruct the way they did when the bills passed in the House in Nov and the Senate in Dec.

LOL, the ads on this page are all discounts for tires.

Rs do not make reasonable demands and the Dems have caved in to every demand the Rs have already made. What’s left?

Mandate to pay insurance companies. No insurance. No coverage.

“Remind Me What Reconciliation Is For Again?”

Reconciliation is for pulling a rabbit out of your hat when your political career is going down in flames (along with the careers of countless other Democrats) and you face the prospect of spending your fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties explaining why you sucked as the President of the United States.

Except Obama is pulling his rabbit out of Rahm’s ass and he will end up spending his fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties explaining why he sucked as President of the United States.

goodeve ELI

Here are some important points to consider and repeat:

* Prior to 2001, good or bad bills aside – every single bill passed through reconciliation REDUCED the deficit;
* Not one, but two of the major Bush tax DEFICIT BALLOONING cuts were passed under reconciliation;
* The combined addition to the deficit of JUST THESE 2 tax cuts were over $2.3 TRILLION over a ten year period.

And how close were these two votes? The 2003 budget busting tax cuts were passed 51-49 and the 2001 budget busting tax cuts passed with less than 60 votes (58-33), and not one single Republican voted against the bill.

Also, the ANWR oil drilling bill was passed under reconciliation by a vote of 52-47 and yet another tax bill in 2005 was passed in reconciliation, by a 54-44 vote, with only 3 Republicans voting against it. This one decreased the capital gains tax rate, just to give one big “highlight”.

So not only should progressives, as blue aardvark notes, be ready to ram this down the throats of Republicans, conservatives and teabaggers, but let’s be clear just how (1) partisan the Bush era budget busting tax cut votes were – USED IN RECONCILIATION, (2) how much they crushed the deficit, (3) how much they were skewed toward the fat cats who needed them the least and (4) WERE USED IN RECONCILIATION.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

the problem with passing obama’s version isn’t that it isn’t an improvement, it’s that it’ll mandate paying the depraved insurance companies. i hope his version goes down in flames. ditto the senate version.

Are the paid staffers of the WH and the DNC still lurking about? I prefer to call them Quislings. Willing to sell out the people to insure corporate profits. No matter how hard they try they just can’t spin it.

Social Security is NOT an entitlement…………it was sweat equity of workers,ask any congresscritter if they would reduce THEIR MOTHERS SS!!!

The issue here is that too many Democrats are sellouts and too many are weaklings.

I agree completely. But the Rs just need to show up and question various aspects of the Senate bill that are very unpopular. They don’t have to offer reasonable alternatives, just make reasonable demands that certain unpopular components be reconsidered. At least, if I were writing their script, that is what I would tell them to do. Make it extremely unpalatable for Obama to even consider reconciliation — because the bill had so many unpopular features, unpopular even with his own supporters.

But, hey, maybe they’re stupid and will fall into the trap.

Did I say it was?

That’s essentially what has already been proposed.

Oddly enough, during the campaign Obama actually promised to turn middle class Americans into a giant ATM for big insurance companies but his mind control ray made us hear “hope” and “change.”

The Democratic Party may well have to be destroyed in order to save it. That may necessitate a primary challenge for Mr. Bipartisan in 2012 and the end of the Blue Dog tyranny in 2010. They should be made to suffer politically the way they have forced the American people to suffer through their dithering, spineless and duplicitous “leadership.”

Obama is playing 9 dimensional chess alright. He’s playing it against his base. He’s already in agreement with the Republicans. The public “oppostion” is merely political cover.

As long as Democrats convince themselves that every loss is the result of being too liberal and every victory is the result of being sensibly centrist, things will just get worse and worse.

ugh
What do you think Evan Bayh has in mind?
again, ugh…

Then they really are clueless and are deserving of defeat in 2010 and 2012.

things will just get worse and worse for us, but not for them.

Fixed!

A primary challenge by Bayh will fizzle within weeks. The American people are far more liberal and progressive than the media and the politicians give them credit for. They demand real change, not some phony appeal for “bipartisanship” and centrism. The answers to America’s problems do not lie in the center.

Mork Romney rides to the rescue.

Unless there is a way we can make it worse for them.

What, Bayh is going to try to run to Obama’s right? Good luck with that…

Bayh will just run in circles and say it’s a new paradigm.

Maybe someone else remembers this besides me, as my google-fu fails on this one…

Way back, Apple had a policy for a while, of having a shadow HR minder on their management staff, who would prod the manager about “Were you good to that employee? Did you get the most out of her/his creativity?” Stuff like that.

Well, I think all the congress critters should have a constituent minder around their neck at all times; these days, preferably an unemployed and healthcare-free minder.

No, no…
I would love to see a primary, but I don’t see anyone worth considering for the job. So we get a few weeks or months of Mr. Excitement.

Obama doesn’t care if this leads to catastrophe for the party. He’s set to become a rich man if he pushes through an agenda friendly to Wall Street and big business, like Bill Clinton did. As of 2007, Clinton had collected almost $40 million in speaking fees after he left office.

Former president Bill Clinton, who came to the White House with modest means and left deeply in debt, has collected nearly $40 million in speaking fees over the past six years…

His paid speeches included $150,000 appearances before landlord groups, biotechnology firms and food distributors, as well as speeches in England, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia that together netted him more than $1.6 million.

Bernie Sanders. He’s an outsider/independent but if he announced he was going to run it would have the same effect Eugene McCarthy had on LBJ and the Democratic establishment. It would be galvanizing and trans-formative.

The American people are far more liberal and progressive than the media and the politicians give them credit for. They demand real change, not some phony appeal for “bipartisanship” and centrism.

Of course, what they demand and what they get are often two different things :-)

Dr.Dean!

Thank you. My best laugh all day.

Hubris is such a good spectator sport.

I’m not saying there aren’t people I would like to see go after him.
I’m saying that of the possibilities (Dr. Dean and Liz Warren and Bernie are waaaaaay too smart to do that), none are attractive. Some just make me want to crawl into a bottle of bourbon and set up shop (that would be Bayh).

And cage fighter.

No no, that would never work – I’m only interested in practical solutions, not wild-eyed immature fantasies We might need it. Now give me some help here, unless you want a good paddling. [Spends eight hours kludging together the world's most half-assed tire out of tree bark and roadside debris] Now that is how it’s done. I rule

Fixed.

Ah, the magical Dry Powder, the stem cells of Democratic politics.

Dean vs Mork!

I don’t think we need passing the shit bill to validate their plans to gut Medicare and SS.

It is clearly in the works… and I’m sure the bipartisans won’t have any trouble at all passing it.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

I had a convo today with my Senator’s healthcare aide… and he sincerely believes that the protests for the public option are being caused/stoke by the MEDIA!!

I couldn’t fucking believe it.

I had to calmly say that, no, this was truly my opinion… that sending billions more to criminal private insurers and not allowing us to have an option is the problem.

He truly didn’t get it… he was so consumed with how “good” the bill is… Medicaid, more insured, help for kids, etc etc.

They may be well and good… but when I asked why insurance co. stock went up when the Senate bill was passed… he had no answer.

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees…!

But sadly, the epiphany I had is that the reason there’s no PO is because Obama is getting ready to gut Medicare… therefore he could not possibly expand it… that has to be the real reason, nothing else makes sense.

wanna throw up?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik24-2010feb24,0,5865964.column

Yeah – “most Americans” were also at town hall meetings in August to express their support for the public option… NOT What “most Americans” are you talking to? The other liberals at your university? Most Americans definitely DO NOT want the public option – to the tune of 80% of us at least.
The other 20% are people who are already being parasites on the working class.

Read “Perfectly Legal” for a complete blow-by-blow on this issue… as perfected by Bill Gates’ accountant to the stars.

It will boggle your mind.

That is such a strange experience. I never get that from DeGette’s office.

Her staff is always “Yep – we know!” She told me herself (Townhall) that the bill wouldn’t get out of the House without the PO, but the Senate was going to be a turd and then who knows?

That was in August, she didn’t lie to me, and was correct. Weird but true experience with a congress critter!

scroll

I couldn’t agree more. I hope in 2012 people vote for “REAL” change and not another corporate candidate.

And Specter seems to believe that the 65% of Americans who said they want the public option don’t really mean it.

S
C
R
O
L
L

MAKES ME HURL

My Senator… “supports” the PO… what I was trying to communicate to the aide was that talk is cheap… I want to see some fire and some action… instead he just presented an historical summary of how many ways my Senator has supported HCR. I said that’s in the past… we have one last chance… will he vote for it in reconciliation…

I was assured he would… but then had to listen over and over to how many things are SO WONDERFUL about this bill… and how this bill is “written for me”… as a self-employed person.

When I pointed out that the “written for me” parts would not go into effect for 4 yrs, he had to agree with that.

He is POSITIVE that there are plenty of controls and regulations to rein in the criminal insurance companies.

I asked him to email the parts of the bill that show there will be strong regulatory oversight that will in fact protect me…. in 2014…

Strangely I have not heard back from him.

в
ы
д
е
л
и
т
е
!

OK, that is so not fair.

Be glad I didn’t tell a Pravda joke. *g*

I’ve been a Deaniac from the beginning. One problem though, the corporate owned media will NEVER let him get anywhere. They screwed him once, they’ll do it again.

Obama and the dems are totally owned at this point with the exceptions of Bernie Sanders, Al Franken and hhhmmmmmm, can’t think of any others.

The rethugs keep throwing the fascist word around. If they knew what it meant they would realize that we’ve been there for a while. It doesn’t matter who is in the WH or the leadership—it’s all being run by the corporations. We’re just pawns.

Or, the Snowflake Babies of democratic politics.

Times:

Anthem Blue Cross plans to go ahead with rate hikes in California
Executives at the health insurer and its parent firm, WellPoint, defend increases of as much as 39% in a hearing before an Assembly panel.

we are wiser now grasshopper!

“We’re just pawns.”
____

Sure looks that way.

wish it were prawns……..g

Karen bin al Ignagni and the executive cohort for whom she pimps are economic terrorists. There is no other conclusion.

As in “District 9″?

LOL

I knew a long time ago—before the election—that Obama would disappoint. I said so here lots and got flamed for it. But I have to say I didn’t think he’d be THIS bad.

It’s much easier now to see how it all happened in Germany in the 1930′s.

Didn’t have lots of hope last year. Now I’ve got none.

LOL!

Citizen RevDeb:

I think that this fight over the “public option”, now that ObamaRahma have cleverly pushed themselves way out in front of their potential allies in triangulation,… this fight has the potential to sow seeds of insurection among elected Democrats and Howard Dean can do what he did in 2005-08 and take over the DNC with the support of House and Senate progressives and Democratic governors. This gives Dean more positive face time on the national corporate media and his credibilty as a policy as well as a political leader gets solidified as it was in 05-08. I’m convinced that by takin the national party aparatus away from the White House and with the leadership in legislation taken over by progressive leadership in the congress, we won’t need to primary Obama’s skinny little butt, he will fall into line or retire to Honolulu.

Is anyone here aware of the deal Obama made last summer with the for-profit hospital lobby? He promised that there would be no public option. The NY Times wrote about it. I guess he still supports the deal. There is a good post on this on another site today.

I expected a wishy-washy centrist, but not an actual Republican.

He almost seriously lost me at FISA. I was fucking apoplectic. Then there were two overriding words: “Sarah Palin.”

He’s an amazing political operative. It just depends on which side you think
he’s playing for. (Hint: it ain’t our side).

yup

That’s been common knowledge here since last summer!

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/the-baucus-caucus-phrma-insurance-hospitals-and-rahm/

It’s much easier now to see how it all happened in Germany in the 1930’s.

One of the most outrageous and unfortunate statements I have ever read here.

very depressed today,i cant figure him out,but he teh sukketh

Dean for America in 2012!!

Nice scenario. Makes a great dream. Don’t see it happening. I don’t see the progressives banding together to take over anything. At least I have yet to see them do so about anything.

As of this moment, I have no desire or intention of showing up to vote for anyone. Why bother? And If I feel that way, the jig is up.

The biggest concern I had after the election was him letting down the young enthusiastic voters and turning them off to the democratic party. Little did I know that he would do it not just to the young voters but to his base.

total empty suit,and codpiece……….sigh

I’m convinced that by takin the national party aparatus away from the White House…

You realize that this is not possible. The Prez is the head of the party and owns the apparatus, and in fact is the actual guy that threw Dean out.

There’s no taking the apparatus. No chance whatsoever, until the party is out of power. At that point, the party elects a new National Chairperson.

You’ve got my vote!

Most Americans like the public option and hate the Senate bill because it doesn’t have the public option.

Actually, most Americans don’t even know what the “public option” is.

Is there one shred of evidence that Americans “hate the Senate bill because it doesn’t have the public option”?

Read Milton Mayer’s They Thought They Were Free. It is rather frightening. Read Sinclair Lewis’ It Can’t Happen Here. Read it 3 years ago and I still have nightmares.

There are similarities between the Weimar Republic and the U.S. today. Democracy is very fragile here and the social fabric is being torn asunder and trust between citizens has to be at an all time low since the Civil War. In such an environment the people are susceptible to demagogues and we all know who the demagogues are. Obama may be a brilliant law scholar but his grasp of U.S. and world history is quite one dimensional.

OK, pups I am taking advantage of the forum to raise an off-topic issue. Note Elliot Spitzer’s piece over on HP, regarding high income tax suppressing GDP.
Spitzer is correct, a correlation does not prove causation; HOWEVER, THE FAILURE OF A CORRELATION TO EXIST DOES PROVE LACK OF CAUSATION. This is a technical point often over-looked. If high taxes suppressed GDP, an assertion of causation, than the lack of GDP rising in the face of taxes falling necessarily disproves the assertion that high taxes suppress GDP. The logic is air-tight unless one can demonstrate clearly an intervening variable.

Damn it. You’re right. That’s it.

Nice post Eli, thanks again for all you do.

As to the rest? It’s all been said.

Keep the pressure on them all . . . but I don’t see the PO happening and if it does, it will be watered down, not rubust.

Not much to do but call your electeds, hope THEY pressure Reid and Senate for a ROBUST PO, and then see what transpires in a few weeks.

I’d be THRILLED if House Progs defeat any votes for the POS developed and being developed and sold by WH/Senate . . . . . and stall it all!!!

*G*

That said, I DO fear Obama gutting SS and Medicare before his term is up.

Sigh.

Could someone perhaps pull out the polls showing 65% of the general public supporting a public option, and not liking the Senate bill because it sucks, and LACKS a PO?

I’m tired of saying the same old things to the same old trollers and their Rahmian Talking Points.

I need a nap or something . . .

Depressingly true. And Dr. Dean has no appetite for electoral politics anymore.
Some possibilities are:

• The Democratic Party utterly collapses and Obama finally reaches a point where he exerts himself, backs up a Brinks truck to Dean’s door and persuades him to take charge of the DNC again.

or

• The party gets killed in ’10 and ’12, and Dean, as the last man standing, graces us once again with some vision.

I am not offering odds either way.

You do realize that Jane is sponsoring and searching for Single Payer Candidates, complete with funding mechanism, don’t you?

The issue here is our government has been bought & paid for by the multi-national corporations. Period.

Citizen oldgold:

Take a deep breath, suck down a shot of Johnny Walker Black Lable and read some history about the last 5 years of the Weimar Republic before ya go spoutin off outrageous and unfortunate statements about what you think are outrageous and unfortunate statements. We have indeed reached a point that can be seen as analogous to Germany 1931-33. The German ruling class and the industrial oligarchy and old aristocracy had to find a way to break the unions and the communists and get rid of electoral politics and republican government so they threw their weight behind the National Socialists and the little paperhanger, thinkin of course that he wouldn’t be hard to control. Look at the corporate oligarchy today, control of the Republican Party is threatened by the little lunatic from Texas and the Teabaggers while the usually docile and centerist Democrats can’t get out of their own way because they’re carryin’ too much cash from the bosses. The end of representative government is certainly possible in this environment especially if the oligarchy throws in with Mr. Paul thinkin’ they can control the little fascist.

You know, Corrente is right over there.
If you want to push this meme, they are listening. And hiring.

Lisa Derrick is upstairs!
Late Night: About a Guy

“Next up in his bag of tricks is “entitlement reform””
___

Read “means-test it.”

Whereupon all political support evaporates. Turn it into penurious spend-down-to-indigiency “welfare.” I am 64. I have 351 days now to Medicare eligibility. I’ve paid in my whole working life. Now, there will be this relentless push to disenfranchise people like me.

That is good to know. Thanks for the information.

However, monetary support alone is not enough; on a progressive blog there ought to be consistent editorial support for some form of national health insurance, which has been sorely lacking here.

Al Franken is also teh brillant

Do you have any answer to the question? Is there a shred of evidence?

Actually it’s more like Germany in WW I.

Thanks. I started reading this site recently and love it. But I am also still learning. A lot. Thanks for the link.

Don’t you get it? Jane is operating on more than one time frame:

Today’s political action
Tomorrow’s political action

And she’s seeking CANDIDATES, not just operating a funding mechanism! So why don’t you sponsor and send over a Single Payer Candidate from YOUR district?

Citizen Kelly Canfield:

Where is it written that the President owns the aparatus of the national party…it’s been done that way since FDR but if the President loses control of his party in congress and faces insurection from the states it is not only possible but probable. The only reason that it didn’t happen when Rahm blew up the Democratic Party in 1994 was because there wasn’t a Howard Dean, the internet or a faction in the elected party membership that was capable of standin up to Clinton…they all whimped out and were left holdin the bag for 6 years while Clinton played Monopoly with the Republicans.

When asked if they would like a competitor for private insurance companies, they are overwhelmingly in favor.

I’m not spending an evening in google for your implacable stance. As I said, Corrente is hiring.

Sorry for asking for evidence. My mistake.

Absolutely loved the going-to-grandma’s bit. Way, way funny and I need a funny. ‘deed I do.

The candidates and the monetary support are good. I will definitely check it out.

“on a progressive blog there ought to be consistent editorial support for some form of national health insurance, which has been sorely lacking here.”

I’m sorry, but you must have a trojan (not a condom) in your computer. It’s been pointing you to redstate.com for a while. I suggest you fix your computer. Turn it off, and leave it that way. Then the trouble you having will be fixed.

I was going to write, What? Are you fucking stupid? Can’t you read? Single payers been all over this site. But, that would be an inapppropriate personal attack.

It’s not worth it…
Next, we will be castigated for not backing Hillary.
It’s old hat and not worth our time.

It’s written here [PDF]:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/58e635582dc516dd52_5wsmvyn09.pdf

If you can come to the conclusion that the Executive and National committees <are not controlled by the nominal head of the party, the President at the time, please show me.

Reconciliation: n. a coming together to overcome differences.

Differences: n. pl. rubes.

YDMV (Your dictionary may vary)

Hope this helps, Eli.

What differences?

Given Bill’s record and that Rahm is one of Bill’s boys (oh that sounds bad), Hillary would be different?

Hey, I was for her until I got up one morning and simply could not maintain it any longer.

McCain/Palin ‘whenever…

Not consistently, just sporadically. I have been here for long enough and seen a large enough sampling of the posts to know that the overwhelming focus has been the “public option” and other small reforms like biologics. Are you really claiming otherwise?

By the way, I was going to add some outrageous comment responding to your insults, but unlike you, decided against doing so.

This is what I would call the sensible paradox. If Obama and the Democrats were sensible enough to use reconciliation to fix this bill, they would have been sensible enough to craft a solid bill that did not need reconciliation. Their failure to craft a good bill without reconciliation guarantees they will not come up with a good bill with reconciliation. So the differences they have are not among themselves but with us, the rubes, and the object of the exercise is to flimflam us and overcome or at least confuse our objections.

Hillary doesn’t strike me as quite the ridiculous corporate ass licker that Obama is. She would be less embarassing at least. Maybe less dead people too.

The thought had occurred to me.
On the other hand, no matter how corporatist an administration may be, how does it make sense to act in contravention of your own best political interests?

Democrats are simply unable to turn down an opportunity to fail. They seek them out, in fact.

I was wondering how many of the measures in the current Obama version of the sidecar couldn’t have been passed with the original Senate bill. Other than maybe stripping out the Cornhusker Kickback, I didn’t see anything that made me say, “Oh yeah, *that’s* what made Lieberman bail! Nice to see it back in there again!”

Bernie Sanders is a REAL LEADER, a Progressive,and a truly good man. I would vote for him for any office and I’m the world’s biggest cynic when it comes to politicians.

My unfounded view is that the HCR fiasco is already over. This last little drama is a performance by Obama to make sure the corps know he reely reely tried reely hard, even though he failed to sell us to them. I don’t see any of this mess making it through congress now, but what do I know?

she was surrounded by toxic people. Sadly, I don’t think anyone would have been/will be any different. They are all slaves to the corporations now. Red or blue no longer seems to matter other than the fact that the reds are batshit crazy.

Agreed.

which is exactly why he won’t go anywhere higher than he is in the Senate. The Masters of the Universe will keep him right where he is.

If it does (and I’m still not totally convinced it can’t, depending on how politically aware the Dems in Congress are, and how much they want to keep their seats), it will be despite Obama and not because of him. I don’t think even Obama would be stupid enough to veto a HCR bill with a public option, although if he did I’m sure his explanation would be fascinating.

Folks, let’s yell the correct things at Doughbama, “You don’t want the public option because you want to suck up to the insurance industsry and PhRMA for their big bucks. We the people, the voters are chicken pellets to you when it comes to campaign dough. You don’t care about anyone in the House or Senate (except for the Blue Dogs and ConservaDems like Max Bauchus and Ben Nelson). You want the Oval Office for eight years, not four! So, you kiss the backsides of all in the insurance industry and PhRMA, you kiss us off, and then, when your campaign chest if FULL, you will come out and say that you are new latter day prophet come to save the country and the world–you know, just like you said in 2007 and 2008. Go, Doughbama, Go!”

That, folks, is what our savior is doing and that’s what we should be saying to him. This ConservaPrez should take his pitchfork, lift his tail, and go where he balongs!

I was worried about this kind of thing as soon as I saw Bush’s coup the night of the 2000 election. It’s one of the reasons I was so concerned about Blackwater, our “private army.” When Air America was still broadcasting older
people from Eastern Europe used to call in and say they had seen this all before. This is a serious issue.

Think it can’t happen here? Think again. The entire Cheney Administration was spent repealing parts of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The American public doesn’t seem all that concerned about people being tortured and their rights taken away. That only happens to other people and certainly not to American citizens, right? I wonder how many people are aware that the
President can decide that ANYONE ( U.S. citizen or not) is an enemy combatant and therefore has no Constitutional rights?

I said the same thing re Germany over at dk one night… don’t post much there anymore.

I said, because of the idolatrous Obama worshippers who refuse to believe he might not be what he wants to be… that I could see how th German people followed Hitler for the first time.

Boy did that garner a bunch o’ HRs from the Obamamaniacs… cus don’t you know I was calling Obama Hitler!!

I had to explain to them that no, rather, I was saying that I understood for the first time how people could blindly follow a leader, no matter what.

Remind me where we get 50 votes again???……The public option received 3 “no” votes (out of 12 total) from dems in Senate Finance committee (Schumer’s plan)…It received a full 6 “no” votes for the public option tied to medicare rates (Rockefellers plan)…The House squeaked thru a “watered down public option” after nearly making an abortion a “cash only” option in this country!…For all of the Lieberman bashing and “Kill the Senate bill” talk; there’s NEVER been 50 guaranteed votes for the PO in the Senate. Never. Ever. That’s the reality that the FDL crowd refuses to accept. Beyond the “politics”, anyone who’s looked at the PO that passed the House should concede that it has a very real possibility of doing more “harm” than “good”. It would have attracted the least healthy folks and probably become a dumping ground for insurers who don’t want these people in their plans…There’s no real “competition” when MOST Americans are excluded from participating. The public option outrage is the biggest misplaced emotional rant in political history. Once you could not get the votes for a PO tied to Medicare rates (and that happened in the House!), the whole thing should have been squashed. Those “polls” that the fdl crowd like to reference, don’t flush out the fact that this “public option” does not extend to anyone who currently HAS insurance!

Without a public option there is no cost control. Obama is selling us out to for-profit corporations whose profits are increased at their discretion by increasing our premiums and denying us care. Do you understand this?

Please note extremely unpopular and Un-American individual mandates is so popular in the senate. Do you get the picture?
If any bill goes with individual mandates you will never get any form of cost-controls in future with senators taking turn in the blame chair on behalf of Insurance companies and stopping the bill. It will be like dealing with nine-headed hydra Hercules dealt with in Greek Mythology.

There ought to be one day– just one– when there is open season on senators.

Will Rogers

How do you get “cost control” from the watered down House bill? The public option will be “limited” to those without insurance…The insurers won’t even COMPETE for those who have the highest risk within that group…You’re talking aboout a concept that loses it’s value without the competitive advantage of rates tied to Medicare….It loses MORE value because it will only apply to a small % of population total. Look at the house bill. There’s no “cost control” there. The Dems couldn’t get a real PO thru the House. They’re spinning the House bill as if it’s some kind of bill-savior. It’s too small…too limited and has no real bargaining advantage over private plans.

It would have attracted the least healthy folks and probably become a dumping ground for insurers who don’t want these people in their plans…

That sounds like the current Medicare — for the old and sick only. I’ve never seen anyone on our side point out that providing Medicare to every American would save taxpayers tons of money since young and healthy people would be offsetting the cost of providing health care for the elderly.

I hate to say it, but we libs aren’t as smart as the cons when it to packaging and phrasing our ideas appealingly. Instead of offering Medicare for every American, we sell something called a public option which no one can even define. .

Republicants sell shit sandwiches like they were cotton candy while Democrats sell cotton candy like it was a shit sandwich.

Of course, libs also suffer under the disadvantage of of being dependent upon a party to enact our agenda (actually its own platform) which sees us as no more than cattle to be herded to the polls on election days, and our values (actually their own platform) as just a bloody nuisance to be barely paid lip service to.

This recent post by Nate Silver at 538 supports the “politcs” aspect of your comment.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/few-final-thoughts-on-ublicpay.html

We are asking for robust public option if it has Mandates in it. Drop the mandates. With mandates there is neither liberty to make a choice nor expendable income left to spend on one’s personal responsiblities which varies from person to person. How come super unpopular mandate always stays in the bill and everything good for the middle class keeps dropping out from the bill. If the bill with mandates go in there will be no further healthcare reform and so kill the bill.

I’ll take it as a cost control measure that can be expanded to cut into the insurance companies market share if they get too greedy. The whole bill is too little, but without the public option it’s a rape. You sure have a lot of excuses, but as you’ve seen excuses are not enough, and they won’t be in November or in 2012 either.

So your principles regarding an individual mandate do not apply if there’s a watered down, public option that will not impact an overwhelming percentage of those who HAVE the mandate?…That’s not “liberty”, it’s an overused FDL talking point. The public option debate should have been settled once the House could not get a SIMPLE MAJORITY to pass the PO that was tied to Medicare rates. The author here is talking about a “catastrophe” w/o a plan that will probably NOT enhance competition. In fact, the insurers would be smart to NOT compete with the PO in most cases. They can cede the field and “cherry pick” those who are the most healthy. In the long run, this plan would probably be bankrupt because it will have such a high rate of “sicker” patients (see CBO scoring of the public option)..It’s a solid option if it applied to those who currently HAVE insurance. It’s a strong option if it also included rates tied to Medicare…As it stands (in the House bill), it has NEITHER of those qualities. The REAL “catastrophe” would become evident when Americans realize that the Public Option that polls so well, would not apply to them while they’re held captive by their insurers.

“The REAL “catastrophe” would become evident when Americans realize that the Public Option that polls so well, would not apply to them while they’re held captive by their insurers.”

Precisely. In a few years you’ll become better at politics.

You know, Corrente is right over there.
If you want to push this meme, they are listening. And hiring.

newt, unpleasant as it is, all the evidence i’ve seen supports khin’s comment @99.

surely pointing out what appears to be true, even if unpleasant, is no cause for your message of unwelcome? if there is contradicting evidence why not just offer it (i haven’t seen any and would be very interested to know if any exists).

unless the point is really to purge the site of single payer advocates who actually, you know, advocate? if that is the case, please keep at it. i may be a slow learner, but i’ll get the point eventually.

I was going to write, What? Are you fucking stupid? Can’t you read? Single payers been all over this site. But, that would be an inapppropriate personal attack.

i can read and guess that means i must be fucking stupid. because single payer has not been all over the site, except in the comments and diaries (and there have been unwelcome comments, to put it mildly, even for that). a few posts putting us advocates down isn’t actually active support.

The Public Option is what we’re left with after Obama took single payer off the table.

Our elected leaders will not even discuss single payer. Personally, I believe the “Public Option” to be weak and ineffectual. You need to do the research on this site about single payer.

“Remind Me What Reconciliation Is For Again?”

Seems GOP Senator claims and enough Democratic Senators agree that Feingold regulation is not a budget item and can not be part of recon bill -

funny how cost saving PO can be part of recon, but regulation can not.

But then that is the point of the story about the car with a bad tire and a spare that Obama refuses to use.

Does Obama really think that after repeated versions of suggest replacment of left idea (like carbon tax – easily passed in recon bill) with what can not be passed (cap and trade – or in this case regulation), we will not catch on to the game of protect rich and corporate from American left that is being played?

hi eli!

i wish reconciliation was for stark’s americare bill (public option on steriods) and a carbon tax. if beowulf is right that’s what the dems could be doing if only they had 50 votes to provide decent health insurance (still not healthcare, but better than anything i’ve seen short of single payer as in hr 676) and saving the planet’s climate.

small things, i guess, to the politicians we’ve elected to represent us.

The Public Option is what we’re left with after Obama took single payer off the table.

Our elected leaders will not even discuss single payer. Personally, I believe the “Public Option” to be weak and ineffectual. You need to do the research on this site about single payer.

this site took single payer off the table before obama was even elected. i wouldn’t have to keep repeating that and would be happy to never mention it again if there weren’t false narratives to correct.

Even if the Senate bill becomes our new health bill, we will have accomplished so much. You people need a little perspective. Without getting into a big thing about the classlessness of using the death of the President’s family as a metaphor, let me say that I grow weary of my fellow lefties. You expect miracles. You forget that we knew Obama was a moderate from the get-go. You forget or ignore the solid wall of “no” that he faces from the Republicans. This is eerily remeniscent of the Chicago City Council resistance to one of my heroes, the independent, black, Mayor Harold Washington. The Republicans blindly oppose anything proposed by Obama or the Democrats,in order to bring Obama down, with no concern for the populace or the country.

I have a favorite Norse myth, involving a contest in which the Gods challenge a mortal to drink from a chalice until it is empty. He drinks and drinks and drinks, and after many hours the liquid in the cup is lowered only an inch. It turns out that the Gods attached that chalice to the ocean. So he appeared to have accomplished nothing, but he in fact had lowered the level of an entire ocean by one inch. This is a splendid metaphor for Obama’s accomplishments, given that he faces unreasoning, hateful opposition from the Republicans in Congress and the Tea Party freaks.

Moderate yes, but Obama brings a new paradigm to our universe. He thinks outside of the box (his address to the Muslims of the world had unimaginably positive consequences for the long run); and above all he is patient and methodical. We might not have liked the extent to which he bent over backwards to give the Republicans a chance to join in his plans. But the end result, with the Republicans’ crude and transparent opposition, is that he can go forward with an unprecedented, nearly universal health coverage plan, though far from perfect, and tell the American people that regretfully, he received no Republican help. He has an excuse for ramming health care through with the reconciliation/sidecar process, if passing it by a simple majority vote can really be called “ramming.”

Meanwhile the Republicans are tearing themselves apart, and the American public, 76 percent of them, are sickened by the spectacle. Look how Republicans have already turned on Senator Brown, torn down from his pedestal and cast aside, because he dared to vote for a modest jobs bill. Does anyone else see the possibility of turning the senator into a Democrate if these Republican attacks on him persist? This would assure the senator’s reelection and give us back our 60 votes in the Senate.

The Congressional Budget Office, an independent and serious body has just announced that Obama’s economic actions saved us from losing over 2 million jobs. It is hard to prove a negative, and even harder to use it to bolster your support, but serious-minded people will recognize what an accomplishment this is.

Iraq is no longer an issue; we are well on course for withdrawing the bulk of our forces. We have seen some astonishing gains in Afghanistan. The cypher remains the will of the locals, but we cannot be faulted for a bad plan, as we justifiably were in Iraq.

Sure Obama can do better, and we should continue to demand more. But please think back to the miserable reign of George Bush and adopt a little perspective. Get ready for it; Obama in 2012!

America, my hat is off! You have demonstrated that a man of color is every bit as capable of being a promise-breaking prevaricator as a white guy! The Dream has come true!

(But, even with Obama’s many faults, I still think it’s cool that you elected him!)

Is anyone still out there? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?