Two very revealing snapshots from CPAC yesterday.
Ron Paul wins CPAC strawpoll. Crowd apparently booed the result when it was announced.
And later,
Even Ann Coulter, who drew a huge crowd herself, felt compelled to give a shout out to Paul-mania, saying she agreed with everything he stands for outside of foreign policy — a statement met with cheers.
Despite Coulter’s attempt to make foreign policy a mere trivial disagreement, her statement — and the CPAC crowd’s response — is absurd.
The United States currently has troops in 140 countries around the world. We are actively involved in shooting wars in three countries, going on a decade now. We will spend nearly $700B on defense in 2010 — almost as much as the “generational theft” stimulus bill — and this doesn’t count the billions we spend on Homeland Security. And all for a single year of “defense.”
So Ann Coulter agrees with everything Ron Paul says, except for that trillion or so a year she wants to keep spending to maintain a US Empire. Or, put another way — Coulter and the neoconservatives that have taken over the Republican Party want Ron Paul’s pre-WWI, pre-Fed, pre-Social Security, pre-IRS federal government — to go with LBJ’s Great Society military.
This notion that you can have “small government” while maintaining a global empire and fighting a “Global War on Terror” is obviously nonsense, and even William F. Buckley recognized that. Here’s Buckley, arguing during the Cold War that conservatives had to embrace “Big Government” (from Julian Zelizer’s Arsenal of Democracy):
Buckley wrote that conservatives had to “accept Big Government for the duration–for neither an offensive nor a defensive war can be waged…except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores.” He explained that Republicans “will have to support large armies and air forces…central intelligence…and the attendant centralization of power in Washington–even with Truman at the reins of it all.“
If Buckley had said this at CPAC about the “War on Terror” and Obama he’d have been booed off the stage.
But whoever the GOP nominee is in 2012 will have to embrace this paradox wholeheartedly. The GOP isn’t ready to give up it’s small government, low tax, Pax Americana neocon fantasyland — anytime soon.



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Coulter, Paul and all the people who went to CPAC should be banished to Canada – to keep the rest of us from having to move there.
The Last Straw
(satire)
Ron Paul is substantially different on another issue, Civil liberties from Decriminalization of drugs to the Patriot Act to renditions to habeas,domestic spying ect ect Ron Paul is different from Both Parties-Thank heavens-JOIN THE REVOLUTION
love ya blue but we need to stop using that phrase, American security, national security, etc
but no fascist referances should be heard from progressives
What dweebs these Ref*cks are! They don’t knowif they are coming or going!
‘We’re sorry, Canada’s full up on ‘rock stars‘ at the moment – please try to complete your banishment later.’
;>)
we are a war mongering nation and will self destruct all on our own but not until we create and have created massive suffering in the world and now in our own land.
thank the universe for karma.
few americans understand that they are imperialist to the core. very few.
capitalism by its very nature is designed to create a society of war mongers for corp profits and a very selfish society.
how selfish and even evil is a nation that makes mega profits off the sick and needy. selfish to the core.
I have a simulation that I do at seminars that shows how a system can influence the behaviour of people in an organization and a country by as much as 90%.
until we see the evils of capitalism we will continue to self destruct.
there is no turning back because we americans think capitalism and patrotism are synonyms. the end is near thank goodness the world will have less suffering with our self destruction.
one only has to look at history to see how imperialism plays out for a nation but then how few americans even know anything about history. most dont even know where their state capital is located in their state.
during the nam war 90% of americans did not even know who the viet cong were. the price of being dumbed down? we are living it now just look around for the results.
we killed one million vietnamese in the war for profits and did not bat an eye for the vietnamese. oh their protests but only due to the draft. where are the protests now without the draft?
Maybe Palin is their best bet–she’s stupid enough to contain all manner of self-contradictory nonsense.
We have been told by the Masters of The Universe that we are a center right nation. Because of this, or because NPR is a bunch of Media Whore Stenographers for the Lockstep Party, NPR has dutifully reported (all day long) the CPAC Ron Paul poll results (and that Glen Beck was the keynote speaker who called for more bigger and more better bootstraps along with the failure of big banks).
My initial reaction was that the Republicans are so desperate not to fail with Sarah Palin that they are willing to drink the Crazy Paul Tea if they must.
hear, hear!
Ron Paul gave a great speech; unfortunately mass unemployment will become a national security issue unless the government does something about it. Were he to address that issue in a logic and non-ideological way he would make a great President.
Back to the land perhaps? Organic farms combined with solar/wind energy and the internet?
Idle hands are the devil’s workshop.
It’s fairly easy to see what the rich and favored at CPAC stand for -”it’s mine, all mine.” But the people in the seats who voted don’t seem to have any notion about what they believe. The majority voted for Paul (iirc he is pro-choice) and he was booed. And Sarah barely finished in the money. Don’t think the movement can hold together with this going on.
Logic does not impress the incoherent especially when faith in miracles is fundamental to their belief system.
Ron Paul is most definitely anti-choice.
Thanks. I thought I read that he was pro. Oh, well, it’s the first time I’ve been wrong today. Many more to come, I’m sure.
Relax.
For a while is true… but the young people are the ones that voted FOR him… and the old are the ones that booed. With a small amount of variation either way.
P.S. Ron Paul is personally against abortion true. And so are lots of good people. He is NOT however for the federal government to use the threat of force to stop it.
He has said many times abortion has always existed and will continue to do so. Because it is such a personal matter that has no clear lines that it should stay out of the hands of the federal government so that the people are free to fight that battle out among the states to find the correct balance.
He is correct. The federal government cannot answer exactly when a zygote is a human being and so it cannot know when that human being begins having Constitutionally protected rights. We all know that abortion at the 8th month is wrong. That should not be federally allowed any more than total prohibition should be federally enforced. As long as this power to decide is in the hands of the central government… there is always the threat that some day the religious zealots will get their hands on the power and outlaw it all together.. that would not be possible if the power to make this decision was seperated out among the states… it would never happen that all states out law it at once.
There is no need to carry this out to some crazy end and say things like “What if we did this for slavery!!!” It is clear that born people have Constitutionally protected rights and no State has any right to violate that.
I would not wish these dysfunctional fools on our friends up north—banish them to Somalia, where they have no big (or small) Gubmint to tell these authoritarian lords what to do.
NPR=Never Provoke Republicans.
You do realize of course that if you removed the objects from your sentences you would sound identical to Neo Conservatives….
Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs with Dean Baker’s False Profits: Recovering from the Bubble Economy hosted by David Dayen
ahh, 3 million Viets died during America’s first war for oil.
It is funny, I mean isn’t that what the Neo Cons said during the Bush Years? Laughable! oh and that is Progressive? Act like the idiots that were in Charge during the last admistration? Funny! To lump Ron Paul in with Anne “The Man” Coulter, is like lumping Gandi in with Hitler and Stalin, Man why do some many people fear a man that is honest as the day is long? I call him the “Serpico” of Government!
Ron Paul 2012
What did the Canadians ever do to us that you should call that down on their heads? I’m not sure WHERE we should send them… Dark side of the moon work for you?
Nope. I’ve loathed the “homeland” shit from when it first started. To me it smacks of “The Fatherland.” National security, not the other phrase that I detest.
Yeah isn’t that ironic, Kick people out of the Country that don’t agree with you? Isn’t that what the Neo Cons said about the anti War movement?
really funny! Sad that you have become what you hated about the last Admistration! LMAO! game set match!
Ron Paul 2012
End the Wars, and bring all our troops home!
Where should I send the 10 internets you won with that? (I am also SO going to steal it!)
Yup, thats right, You sound just like Chenney and his ilk! Kick them out!
Funny and you call yourself a progressive? I guess you have become what you hated about the last Admistration! Funny!
Ron Paul 2012
Rotsa ruck with that Ron Paul 2012 shit. I’ve got a better chance of being elected Pope, what with being a woman and not Roman Catholic and all…
CPAC the loonies convention was covered as it it has our seats of power in this Country.
If one really listens to Ron Paul one would see that all He preaches is not gold, but well plated retoric. If He ever was to become president we would be praying we could get Bush back.
The fact that Ann Coulter agree’s or disagee’s with anyone lends one to think She has the smarts to make those decisions. She has nothing to give Her any credibility to even comment on what others think. Yet she gets the spots all the time to do it.
The pure fact that people really listened and cared what was said at this convention is proof of how bad off this country really is. It was like covering the inhabitants of a zoo, and respecting what they said. Yet it was covered and reported on as if it was the future of the Country.
The Abortion thing is what really makes me laugh, No one is pro Abortion, and if you are you are a sick puppy, It is a choice, my choice is Life, but that does not mean I have the right to choose what is right for you and your family, Ron Paul is against the Federal Government involvment in something that should be between a women and her Doctor! He is for letting the States decide the Law in there respective boundaries! Personal Responsibilty, Educations would reduce abortions as a Choice of contraseption! Rape and incest, ahh Duh, a Women should have that right to decide!
Really some of you seem to hate everything that does not fall into your narrow view of what is right! Personal Liberty be damned! if you don’t think like I do Get out of the Country! You sound just like Chenney!
Rememeber Minds are like Parachutes they only work when they are open!
Ron Paul 2012
Oh Marion are you saying that women are not on the same level as a Man?
Wow you got me there didn’t you! Howz the “Change” Working out for you!
Lame, Silly, and just as bad as the Neo Con swine that ran this country into a ditch! Good luck with that!
End the Wars!
Ron Paul 2012
Although NPR reported that Paul won a majority…he actually only won a plurality (31%). The booing is indicative of a deeply split Tea Party/CPAC movement. In fact, it’s hard to even see where Romney even fits within this movement…as he is a corporatist, Janus-faced machiavellian. Oh wait, that explains why he WAS willing to show up.
To use an example of what I am talking about, Look at history and the Warsaw Getto and how the Jews were treated by the Nazi’s, flash forward, to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, Hmmm But hell there only Palestinain’s right! See what I am talking about when you become what you hate!
Sorry…here is a listing of Ron Pauls positions on abortion. One cannot reasonably squeeze a “Pro-Choice” libertarian position out of this.
“Abortion is murder.” (Apr 2008); “Roe v. Wade decision was harmful to the Constitution” (Apr 2008);
“Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement” (Feb 2008); “Protecting the life of the unborn is protecting liberty” (Feb 2008); “Get the federal government (i.e. ban at State level since Roe v. Wade impedes banning abortion at Federal level)) out of abortion decision” (Nov 2007); “Sanctity of Life Act: remove federal jurisdiction” (Sep 2007); Nominate only judges who refuse to legislate from the bench. (Sep 2007); Save “snowflake babies”: no experiments on frozen embryos. (Sep 2007); No tax funding for organizations that promote abortion. (Sep 2007); Embryonic stem cell programs not constitionally authorized. (May 2007); Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007); Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005); Voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005); Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted NO on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003); Voted YES on funding for health providers who don’t provide abortion info. (Sep 2002); Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001); Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
No federal funding of abortion, and pro-life. (Dec 2000); Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003); Rated 56% by the National Right to Life Committee, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006); Report on Medicaid payments to abortion providers. (Apr 2009)
Conservatives are always going to be terrible on economics, I think that’s a given.
But if Ron Paul drives neocons out of the Republican party then god bless him.
Ron Paul has zero chance of becoming president. When he talks about getting our military out of Germany, Japan, & the rest of the 140 or so countries we are in, the media & political establishment get very nervous, ridicule him, & change the subject fast. They call him isolationist, when he really is more of a non-interventionist. They would never, never let him get close to the nomination.
We are a country of 300 million people – made up of immigrants & descendants of immigrants from practically every nation. Yet we have 2 major parties whose leaderships both serve Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, & corporate America. Why can’t we discuss a broad range of views (including Ron Paul’s & the Green Party’s)? What’s wrong with healthy debate?
OT But here’s an interesting article about Joe “The Tax Protestor” Stack and his difficulties in California and the sorts of tax avoidance efforts he was involved in out in the Golden State.
Joe Stack and His Religious Exemption
A…those bills you are refering to were bills that gave federal Monies to each said bill, Correct? another silly argument, He votes No on almost any bill that comes into conflict with the Constitution, He believe’s that it is not the federal government responsiblity to fund pet projects with tax dollars. I mean nice try but I never said he was Pro Choice, He will not vote for anything that raises taxes, Check his voting record he has voted against things that he would personally support! I think you need to re read the Constitution and then maybe you would understand where this man is coming from. Like I said above, He is for letting the State decide without federal governement intervention!
You are about Paul. But the thing about his win is the right wing took a shot that they may not recover from. For the last year they have been basking in there tea bags. Now it shows the Republican party is as out of sink as it was in Nov. 08.
The number I remember is 3 millions if you count Laos and Cambodia. A minor blemish on a good rant. Oh. And 58,000 of our own. Oh. And the inflation that paid for it all wiped out my fathers (and all the other fathers) pension. And it was all for nothing. The Viet Nam war is the answer to the question “how dumb can you get?” The current wars are equally ginormously wrong and stupid. Talk about incoherence! The only one sane enough to oppose these wars is Ron Paul. And they boo. Boooooooooooo Booooooooo
You may have hit on the precise reason they’re acting so wacky these days — they have to since they have so many contradictory positions to uphold.
I think that as a society grows up and become super powerful, as America has, there’s a tendency to use that power and it can become a real problem for all of the other nations of the world.
We have to learn to use our power for good and some of that good is to simply refrain from interfering in other people’s lives except to help them when they need help.
Of course, we still have our self-interests to primarily work toward, but sometimes that will coincide with other nation’s interests.
Practically, it means we may want to pull back on many of our military bases, but there will still be some we want to keep and that a host nation would want us to keep. Where they specifically ask us to leave we should seriously consider it. Our own interests of a military kind certainly don’t extend to having a presence everywhere.
For a long time the Establishment Republican Party could count on the factions to have unappealing leaders (at least in a political candidacy way), but now there is Sarah Palin in all her “you betcha” perkiness and they have a problem.
Sure sure, they can applaud Ron Paul for bringing voters to the Repub party, but what about Sarah? She might bring voters, but they certainly don’t want her to be their “leader”. Their leaders all have big wads of cash and their hired hand politicians all look good, talk good and follow orders. Sarah…maybe not.
If I were her I’d have some body guards and be very careful of small aircraft which might suddenly decide to crash into a building she just happens to be in.
This article represents extremely incompetent reporting. Ann Coulter spoke on Friday, BEFORE the straw poll results were tabilated and announced on Saturday.
The Paul win was cheered louder than it was booed; just as the Paulistas, libertarians and others had shouted down anti-gay speakers throughout CPAC.
For actual blogging from CPAC and many video interviews with the people there go to coverage at:
http://teapartiers.blogspot.com
their, there, they’re
public skrewl?
This article represents extremely incompetent reporting. Ann Coulter spoke on Friday, BEFORE the straw poll results were tabilated and announced on Saturday.
The Paul win was cheered louder than it was booed; just as the Paulistas, libertarians and others had shouted down anti-gay speakers throughout CPAC.
For actual blogging from CPAC and many video interviews with the people there go to coverage at:
http://teapartiers.blogspot.com
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The 5 dancing Israelis arrested on 9/11 in NYC
were very proud of the work of the Mossad.
(no more Twin Tower asbestos problem)
Ventura USN Sheehan Perot Paul OathKeeper NamVet
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Choate Carter Baldwin Anderson
Yes it was a good rant… My father never came home from VietNam… and I support Ron Paul 100%