The biggest problem with 21st Century Conservatism isn’t so much that so many 21st Century are running around like absolute morons. No, the problem is that they are proud to be running around like absolute morons. Examples, of course, abound. But few spectacles illustrate the point more luridly than the Utah House of Representatives deciding to, essentially, stick an ostrich feather up its collective ass and wiggle it around in what it fondly imagines to be an insulting manner at Science.
Carbon dioxide is “essentially harmless” to human beings and good for plants. So now will you stop worrying about global warming?
Utah’s House of Representatives apparently has at least. Officially the most Republican state in America, its political masters have adopted a resolution condemning “climate alarmists”, and disputing any scientific basis for global warming.
The measure, which passed by 56-17, has no legal force, though it was predictably claimed by climate change sceptics as a great victory….
Meaning, imbeciles like Don Surber (pictured here) are gurgling about how the Utah Representatives are trying to “protect their economy” from the perfidy of the United Nations (!): “Not that the UN has no stake in the matter; it hopes to turn global warming fears into a global tax to fund the UN.” Surber also believes evil UN-funded leprechauns are conspiring to tighten the backflap of his trap-door long johns so as to give him a Socialist Wedgie.
But it certainly is true that Utah’s fine Representatives are deeply interested in their local economy. For instance:
With respect to Utah, coal holds a firm grip on the state since close to 90 percent of their electricity comes from coal. Understandably, many in Utah are strongly opposed to cap-and-trade. Utah coal mines produced 26 million tons of coal in 2006, making Utah the 12th biggest coal-producing state in the country. Its coal fired plants emit approximately 41 million tons of CO2, 34,000 tons of sulfur dioxide and 68,000 tons of nitrogen dioxide. This results in Utah coal plants producing 66 percent of the state’s total carbon emissions.
Not that this means that everyone with a stake in the Utah economy is delighted with the recent yahoo-ism. Some indeed have excellent reason to be alarmed, as unchecked climate change will, er, convert Utah from an inhabitable desert to an uninhabitable desert. Maybe the Utah House of Representatives is working on a way to make coal edible, however, so the loss of the snowpack and of arable land won’t come as too much of a blow. That’s probably the case.
After all, you couldn’t hardly accuse the Utah House of Representatives of grotesque irresponsibility, just because “There are very few (if any) scientifically legitimate statements located in the text of the resolution,” which there aren’t. After all, the House was so kind as to take out the kookier language from the resolution, such as that climate change is a “conspiracy” concocted by scientists who wish to remain on the governmental “gravy train.” No, the Utah reps have behaved admirably, except when they’ve behaved like comical pigs. For instance:
Rep. Noel: “Are you stating on record that CO2 is a pollutant? Are you saying that CO2, carbon dioxide, is a pollutant, are you saying that?”
Professor Andrade: “I’m saying that carbon dioxide has a unique molecular structure which absorbs infrared radiation, and that that is in part responsible for the effects that you’re concerned with, Representative Gibson is concerned with, and Representative ….”
Noel: “I want to get this on the record, ok? Are you saying that we have to rid the planet of carbon dioxide?”
Andrade: “Of course not!”
Noel: “It’s not a pollutant then, it’s not going to kill you. It’s not going to kill plants. Is that correct? I also have a degree too, professor. So I want to get this straight. Is it a pollutant?”
(The conversation becomes a verbal skirmish, and the committee chairman breaks it up.)
A rebuttal of the absurd “scientific claims” in the resolution may be found here. But really, this is about as embarrassing a performance by a state government in a while — and it’s a pretty accurate foreshadowing of what will happen if the GOP regains control of the federal legislature. Which is why I’m so irritated at the Democrats for helping them do this by acting like such goddamn cowards. My kids, you know, just can’t afford whining in the face of lunacy.



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SaTHERSday Night LIVE!
I must say that the prospect of turning Utah into a desolate waste that makes Death Valley look like paradise has a certain appeal.
Pig-ignorant, YAHOO!
saTHERSday nite — pigs are gonna protest being compared to those utah yahoos dood
Been there, have you?
I feel bad for the BYU scientists who wrote the rebuttal… always nice to see some cogent sanity in the face of lunacy, but ye gods.
It’s 8:13 and I get the Zed?
I like when pigs protest, in the form of a sizzle and pop as the bacon gets crispy…
I was a few mins late, again… Sat nights are getting tricky…
hmmmmmm bacon
In fairness to the Utah Leg, if you can believe in Joseph Smith and the whole Book of Mormon thing, you will swallow just about any counterfactual horse shit someone tosses your way.
I have to say that I find it predictable, but somewhat alarming with the speed with which the crazy on the right came out. Black helicopters, one world government and the Obama death lists will be back in style. The way the right is going, there might be witch burnings too.
Yes, but mostly it is the thought of toasting all those freaking Mormons the gives me a thrill up my leg.
Watch Alabama, Mississippi, and Utah for breaking news.
Dunno, I bet a lot of the BYU scientists are Mormon, and they seem appropriately horrified.
The wider point is that 21st century “conservatism” really is becoming another new American “religion,” complete with loony “prophets” like, oh, Glenn Beck.
I was laughing at InstaDope last week for saying the Tea Party Baggers were the “third Great Awakening,” but the more I think of it, the more true and frightening that seems.
When all the snow melts, will it raise the level of the lake? Enough to take out some of the more obnoxious residents?
When scientists find it impossible to reason with legislators, I think the only responsible course is to go on a rampage and really bust up the place.
“Congressmen, say hello to Professor Rocko and Chancellor Knuckles…”
OK, now I am going to have nightmares for a week. Better keep my fire extinguisher handy, just in case.
When scientists find it
impossible to reason with legislators, pigs will fly.Mormon scientists are actually pretty rational. It doesn’t stop some Mormon people from being irrational, unfortunately. But doctrinally, Mormons can believe in evolution, climate change and all kinds of things that some religions would throw you out for. For some crazy reason, I think it has to do with having fallen in with the evangelicals and all in the abortion and gay marriage fights that made the Republican party what it is today, they just don’t. Joseph Smith actually taught that a socialist/communist program was the divinely intended economic system under which we should live, for heaven’s sake! It’s really a sad state of affairs how Mormons ended up so staunchly Republican and eating up the economic in addition to the social crap there.
I guess Utah’s coal industry trumps its ski industry. Best skiing in the world.
Link?
I live on 65.30 Rd. and to the un-initiated means I’m 65.3 miles east of the Zion Curtain. With the stoopid happening in OOtah and the stoopid directly to the east of me (CO. Springs) I’m right in the middle of a vortex of STOOPID!!.
P.S. That doesn’t even take into account the stoopid that surrounds me locally!
Mormon Church around here (and we have a lot of them) is pretty staunchly Creationist.
Haven’t you been paying any attention at all? There have been huge snowstorms lately that prove that global warming is a hoax so you can have your coal and your skiing too! I saw it on Fox News clips so it must be true.
I think I’m right, though. At any rate I bet there’d be a great dissertation in a comparison of the teabaggers with American religious movements…
May I politely inquire why you live there? I’m sure you must have a good reason.
Which just brings to mind the Upton Sinclar quote that I’m sure all of us know by heart now.
On the brighter side, Utah is really one of the least likely places on earth to be negatively impacted by radical climate change. It’s at least a century behind in every possible way.
That is what is going to give me nightmares.
You mean the one I have on my office door?
Sure. And you could say the same about some Catholic scientists (now allowed to believe in evolution!)
Quick! Move.
Just not the church hierarchy in either case.
Oh, Utah’s pretty vulnerable, as is the whole region. Deserts are already kind of on the edge…
“And still, it moves.”
Montrose, CO. And for the life of me I cannot think of a good reason. An aging mother is the only reason and a not altogether good one.
Oh, and the west-enders in the county want to open a uranium mill so all of us downwinders can have some interesting cancers in few years.
room to move
Afraid I’m stuck here for a while.(sigh)
Hiya firegods
Born and raised Mormon, undergrad and law degrees from BYU. No longer a believer, but willing to give credit where credit is due. I was at BYU when there was a huge debate going on about whether believers in the Bible could believe in evolution. My bishop at the time, a professor at BYU, gave an excellent talk in Sacrament Meeting about religion and science. I have no doubt if he had given a talk on the Equal Rights Amendment, I would have hated it, but I loved his talk about evolution. Having been raised in the socialist and godless state of California, the science department at BYU was one of the few things that gave me hope that I could survive my years at BYU in the heart of Utah Mormondom.
“…Gang of Pig-Ignorant Yahoos!”
First time I’ve seen that particular appellation handed out…! ;-)
There was a point in time when the best scientists were priests. Of course that was back in the days of Galileo. He wasn’t tried so much for heresy, but for calling the pope an idiot while writing under a pseudonym.
Mormonism doesn’t require you to believe in a literal Bible. Many choose to believe that, my mother among them. Many do not, my father among them. The scientists at BYU should not be confused with the lay people at any ward near you. For that matter, if Church meetings were confined to actual doctrine instead of so much folk Mormonism, I might still go every once in a while.
That would be because they were pretty much the only people with any kind of education.
If Representative Noel really wants to be sure that CO2 is harmless, perhaps he could utilize his academic training to perform an experiment that would help him find out. For instance, he could lock himself in a small airtight room for 72 hours or so.
OK. I’m sure you don’t need my advice, but perhaps you could convince your aging Mom to move into an easier place to live, where you could live nearby in a nicer part of the country. I went thru this with my parents and it didn’t happen until they were too infirm to live in their house, but give it a try anyhow.
As for downwind, my late husband & I once drove to Quebec City from NYC. We purposely took smaller roads once we got into Quebec. He was driving, I was navigating (yes, the usual cliche). We drove into a town with a huge pile of tailings, so I scoured the map to find the name of the town was Asbestos. Yep. And sure ‘nuf there was a hole in the ground bigger than the pile of tailings. Don’t think it was still active, though my memory shows itsy bitsy trucks at the bottom of the hole (have to find those pics from early 1980s). Houses rundown. Still peeps lived there. Wonder what their lungs looked like.
This is not just the laity, but the church leadership as well. They are teaching Creationism at the Mormon student center just off campus. Some of our graduate students are also Mormon and have had issues with evolution (including two of my TAs), which can be kind of a problem when you are in an anthropology department.
I once read somewhere that at all the ancient universities (Oxford,etc..) everyone was trained in mathematics before studying any other discipline.
Religion and science are compatible only by partition, as belief and evidence are opposites.
The residue from asbestos mining is everywhere in the community and remains in the area forever. Ask the folks in Libby, here in Montana.
A plastic bag and a rubber band would suffice.
i would see how that would be a great advantage — math is so logical and orderly and precise
The Church hierarchy is a bunch of hundred year old men because you get there by working your way up the chain through so many people that you have to be old to get to the top. I grew up thinking that everyone in the church was a true believer in everything the prophets have said because that’s what they teach you from birth. But I found out down the line that what they say outside of Church is very different. There have been times that some things could get you excommunicated if you said them in public even if outside of Church, but that has been most dangerous when it comes to women’s issues, not scientific issues.
*gentle reminder* fantasy violence…. slippery slope… yada yada yada
Once she reaches an un-defined state of insanity the plan between my brother, sister and I is to ship her to my oldest brother who has had the good fortune to not have lived near her for 40 years!!
“Church of Christ, Scientist” wins First Prize for Most Ironically Named Institution.
I’m sure. I do have pics somewhere. It was an amazing sight, as you might imagine since I have such a vivid memory 2 decades later. We only drove thru, so spent maybe 10 minutes there.
LOL! Payback is a Mofo.
Sounds like an appropriate plan.
Kinda makes one wonder why they would choose anthropology as a field to begin with. Like having a problem with Newton and Einstein but studying physics.
‘evenin’, all.
Educated people weren’t all that uncommon in those times. However, priests were a class of people that had both education and the leisure to pursue things like science.
That would make anthropology a lot easier. Why read all those texts and journal articles when it’s all right there in the Bible? I’m not saying that there aren’t a lot of crazies among the Mormons, just that BYU scientists aren’t required to be among them and, in my experience, were not. You can’t really judge on the local clergy, either, because it is a lay clergy. I was once in Sunday School when a counselor in the Bishopric made a long comment about the mark of Cain during a lesson about Noah’s ark. Most of the clergy don’t even know the history of the unauthorized and error ridden book called Mormon Doctrine, not even the parts that the author himself repudiated in later years. It’s called Mormon Doctrine, so… Must be why so many of my family members in Utah love Fox News. They call it fair and balanced, so…
Hiya Suz
There are some places in NE Oklahoma, east of where I grew up with similar huge piles of tailings, but from zinc and lead mines. Equally toxic. Tar Creek is near the top of the Superfund list.
heya ppd how ya doing
Don’t know any personally, so I can’t say how many there might be. But you can wiki Dr. Steven Jones, a BYU physics prof. He had some interesting and reasoned argument about the WTC collapse (hint: his analysis suggested it wasn’t jet fuel).
That is not the Mormons. But they are surely not scientific in the usual sense either. Don’t know how they got their name. Here’s their official website, which I haven’t read.
the mormon blues
In fairness, neither is a physical anthropologist, so it is not as much of a direct conflict.
I used to have a kitty named Montrose. Pure white with one green eye and one blue. Loved the time he pounced on the Thanksgiving turkey at about two months old!
We women sure are important, aren’t we? Dang.
Wait, I meant to say “important to keep down.”
There is a teaching in Mormon doctrine that God works according to natural law. That has made other Christians mad at times because it sounds like God isn’t omnipotent, but it does allow for the belief that God created the earth, but that evolution can explain how it was done. I think Skousen was a six thousand year old earther, but he was considered crazy by the Mormons I knew growing up. I hear he has had a resurgence with the Glen Beck crowd, unfortunately.
The best part is that he is an Am. Spectator reading neocon wingnut type and his siblings are socialist(leaning towards anarchist), me. Gay, my brother and liberal, my sister. there is a little of the twisting of the knife in that plan!
Oh geez.
Yet, right here on my property, at one of the prettiest spots, a steep slope into a stream, is a giantic dump. Stoves, refigerators, tons of barbed wire, miscellaneous broken kitchen ware. Old farms are a lesson in pollution.
Rhetoric, not math…
There are two parts of Utah that I consider to still be in the United States – Salt Lake City (the city proper), and Moab. Move to one of those two if you can.
http://open.salon.com/blog/david_brin/2010/02/09/the_real_struggle_behind_climate_change_-_a_war_on_expertise
I am not anti-Mormon (I like the two students in question), as long as the Church stays the hell out of politics (but that also goes for the Catholics, Baptists, and everybody else).
My understanding of Church of Christ, Scientist is that only the well-healed need apply.
Medieval education: trivium, then quadrivium.
That about sums it up.
logical
Church stay out of politics, Monty?
No one expects the Inquisition
Only thing I know is that they have several impressive builings, including churches, in Manhattan, but the latter are pretty empty. Christian Science Monitor newspaper still has some respectable reporting, one of the few remaining.
Should also point out that the priest and monks were pretty much the only people who were even literate. Event the nobility were largely illiterate.
Seriously, there are wonderful places in Tijuana that will care for elders (even with Alzheimers) for $950 per month. (Some English, but clean and compassionate.)
Still true? In a meaningful sense.
Their central tenet is the rejection of science and the embrace of faith healing and quack diets.
Hey, RonD!
Good preparation for becoming a Democrat in adulthood. Hi there, Stupak and Nelson, and the Barbara Boxers who go along with you!
It used to drive me crazy to sit in church hearing men say how important women were and how they were naturally more spiritual than men, etc. while knowing that we could never have any say in how the Church was run. Because it makes so much sense that the more spiritual ones should be shut out of spiritual guidance, right? The weird explanations about being given the honor of bearing children and the sacred responsibility of raising them, etc. and men needing the service and experience to increase their spirituality, etc. sounded like bullshit to me even as a very young girl. Yet I ended up married to a man who agreed he was horrible at budgeting and I was good at it, yet he should make all the financial decisions for the two of us because he was the man, the priesthood holder and therefore the God-ordained head of the family. At least being indoctrinated Mormon didn’t keep me from telling him that if it made him feel better to think that, he could go right ahead but if he knew what was good for him, he’d never say anything so stupid again because it made absolutely no sense that God would require people to screw up their finances in order to stroke a man’s ego when even fallible humans could figure out that it made more sense to have whoever was better at the particular task handle it. Our marriage didn’t last, oddly enough. ;)
Thank you. I like that there are so many smart people here at the lake. the only drawback is that I sometimes feel almost a stupid as the Stoopid that surrounds me. Iiieeee!
Faith healing appears to be a central theme in their beliefs. They tend to eschew doctors and modern medicine.
Not sure what you are asking here. I was referring, in response to Thers’ comment on Medieval education, that almost nobody in the Middle ages could read and write.
Drink slidin’ your way. Some variety of micro-brewery ale okay?
Sent them the following Q: What is scientific about your church? From what I have observed, your church is against medical science. Please explain.
Relax, despite appearances, it is not contagious.
See my 94.
That would be wonderful. 8-)
took me 4 months of daily reading before i finally worked up the nerve to make what i hoped was an intelligent enough comment — was scared that i wasn’t gonna be smart enough — and was warmly welcomed by mrs k8 and others. i always learn something here — is part of what i love about the lake
I’ve heard this too.
What ever happened to mrsk8?
I’m referring to the evidence that most modern U.S. pols, including alleged Harvard educated constitutional rights profs, behave as though they are illiterate.
I agree. One of the things that I have a huge problem with is the Church’s involvement in the gay marriage fight. It is especially galling because it is hypocritical. The Mormon Church does not believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. Polygamy is still the law of eternal marriage, just not practiced on earth because it was a problem for statehood and pooh-poohed in public because it gives Mormons a bad image. When I divorced my husband, we were still considered married for eternity because of our temple wedding. I was told I couldn’t even ask for a temple divorce unless I was ready to remarry in the temple to someone else (because a woman’s salvation is dependent on the man, basically), but my ex could remarry in the temple any time. They would not grant a temple divorce to him, either, they just seal him to an extra woman. And there I would be in a marriage between one man and two women. I guess the man makes the two women okay. Infuriating!
Sadly, one does wonder at time.
Hey hon! How’s your SaThersday?
last i heard she was still lurking. been a while since she surfaced and iirc, she’s more of a daytime person who isn’t around much at night.
You have to look forward to the fact that you will grow out of Mormonism. You are well on your way.
Hey Paula, good for you!
thanks Suz.
Hah!
I was married to a man and his mother gave me “The Total Woman” as a present.
(Cue foreboding music.)
What do you do if the husband is driving recklessly? Don’t nag him and tell him to drive responsibly, oh no. The answer is “Pray for a policeman!”
Do you know anything about K8?
To be fair I have rather mixed feelings about medical science. Well, not the science so much as the often deceptive marketing.
I still consider it preferable in most instances to so-called faith healing, although if the latter ever works, kudos to the practitioners.
I suppose they deserve some credit for controlling cost. Most people who tithe would be spending a smaller percentage of their annual income than the Senate would have them fork over to private insurance companies.
Same here-I lurked for almost a year. Looseheadprop greeted me very warmly, and put me at ease, when I finally dared say something.
Cheers!
Yeah, our Mormons here are tad touchy about that whole polygyny thing. I had a picture of a modern polygynist Mormon up when I was lecturing about marriage and mentioned we had a colony of them just south of here. My Mormon TA got up in my face about it after class (apparently there were some other Mormons in the class who gave him grief), insisting that they were not Mormons and that I should not call them that. I explained to him, that while they did not belong to his branch of the church, they were in fact Mormons and called themselves such and that as an anthropologist I was obligated to call them what they called themselves. Did concede that I would emphasize that they were schismatic Mormons in the future.
last i heard lhp was off to tend her garden … i think our experiences are not unique
OK, sleepy. Niters all.
Would be interesting to see the stats on the cost of life expectancy of Christian Scientists vs. the rest of us. Bet they beat us by a country mile.
As I have already lived long enough, I no longer care about medical science. I can distinguish between the marketing and the reality, but my life is no longer worth multiple hundred thousand $$, and it seems that if you are really sick, you can’t get away with much less.
g’nite thers — sleep well dood
Night.
What ever happend to lhp?
No one will be surprised to hear that I jumped in with both feet as soon as I found the site.
Reminds me of a Sunni I heard say one time, “These Shi’ites, they’re not really Muslims…”
Paula, you should write a diary explaining how all of this works. It’s fascinating! I was able to visit the temple in La Jolla while it was open to the public. (They changed all of the carpets and cleaned up after the riff-raff were excluded.) But it was amazing to see how many local supervisors and councilfolk were Mormans.
Both feet? Not you eCAHN.
Under the Banner of Heaven.
This would suggest that their system is not very effective.
i agree — it would be a great diary to read
Could be worse. When Utah got too damn liberal, Ol’ Brigham sent the true faithful up to southeast Idaho. So we’re surrounded by their heirs and trapped between Cheney-land in the east and the Idaho Values Alliance to the west.
I don’t know. I miss her, and wish her well.
A lot of the old timers aren’t around anymore. Whatever happened to Christy? I went away for awhile and when I came back she was gone. TRex shuttered his blog and I really miss his brand of snark.
I so miss LHP. Where’s she gone? I love Cynthia though.
I am known for my pointed Qs. I tried to be gentle with you because your situation is personal.
I remember seeing something on TV several years ago about a 123-year old French woman, at that time the oldest known person (not surprisingly). She appeared to still have her marbles. She said her doctor had gotten her to substitute wine for her daily brandy and quit smoking, although she still sneaked one occasionally.
Conclusion, there’s simply no substitute for good genes and WTF was her doctor thinking, urging a 120+ person to alter their lifestyle?
christy took a break due to family obligations — i see trex every now and then on facebook — not the same though
*surfacing – wifi had me down for a bit*
Hello firepeeps!
That just sez that they died younger, but, in the summary, not how much younger. And there was no word about cost. It’s the cost thingy that’s the economic killer.
Think I will toddle off. Take care all.
(Hi & Bye, Kelly!)
Bye DrDick!
front paging takes a lot of work and time both in preparation of the post and the back and forth in the comments.
we hope that those who have taken a break or gone on hiatus will return at some point — when real life stuff allows them to do so
gnite DrDick, Thers, anyone I might have missed..
scroll up to 115 or so — right before thers said g’nite
g’nite dr dick
Pointed Q’s, finely-tuned bullshit detector, and endless patience with we economic laypeople.
(((eCAHN)))
Loo Hoo
Jesus’ General has some very good posts in his archives on those subjects.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
Dang – you didn’t….pause…
‘night, Dr.Dick.
I wish her the best and I hope the peanut is thriving.
dont wanna dilute its impact when i do :)
Christy had to “retire” owing to personal health & family issues. Here’s here archives. She was on PUAC last Saturday.
trex has his own blog.
Most Mormons can’t even go in the temples after they are dedicated. I was not allowed in to see my older brother get married even though I was a Mormon in excellent standing because I was too young to have gone through the endowment ceremony, though I could have at that age if, you guessed it, I had got married that young. I stayed outside with everyone’s kids.
There are a lot of Mormons in California. Since the time of Brigham Young there has been a Mormon contingent. They used to call BYU the University of California at Provo. When I was growing up, there were more Mormons by sheer number in CA than in UT. The percentage was a lot lower, though, because of how many more people there are in CA period. I was always struck by how different my family was than my relatives who had stayed in Utah. I think it helps to be diluted.
What RonD said.
((((RonD)))
I try my bestest. Luv me some FDL.
They turned my dad Mormon. He was from a protestant family (from Canada and Missouri) but the whole small town was staunch Mormon and ended up converting him. He, in turn, converted his mom. The younger brothers and sisters all converted, too, but I’m not sure if that was because of their friends or their mom.
Did you ever read that book by Deb Laake?
She was a very popular writer in alternative press in Phoenix way back when. I wonder if you two share the same experience.
When I worked for Goldman Sachs (mid-1970s to mid-1980s), the SoCal salespeeps were all Mormons.
Wow, that’s kind of amazing. I don’t think any member of my family ever changed another member’s mind about anything.
yup — lotsa mormon families in the sf bay area back in the 60′s and 70′s…. when i was a teen i considered them to be just another church. they had a great looking temple in the oakland hills that was lit up at night and was considered a local landmark
I’m on the rolls but I refuse to participate. My best friend insists that if I die first he will have me dipped in absentia. Worst curse ever!
Kinda another world, where peeps can be converted by irrational “reasoning.” OTOH, when was anyone ever convinced (as opposed to converted) by rational reasoning?
Mormon returned missionaries are recruited for sales jobs because they have spent two years knocking on doors trying to convince strangers to join their religion. One of my friends at BYU wanted to be an investment banker. Wonder what ever happened to him. He was a nice guy so I kind of hope he didn’t end up in investment banking!
I have noticed that between Cynthia and LisaD they more than make-up for lhp’s spelling errors. :)
lisa in particular (laughing) neither one has come up with anything to top a ‘bright shiny thong’ tho — that one will live on….
I have occasionally heard second hand accounts of it happening, usually to a friend of a friend. Appears to run counter to human nature.
Think I will call it a night. Sweet dreams to all.
Never read it. Was she one of the Sunstone crowd? I was outraged when they started excommunicating them. I had been proud of the previous prophets’ ability to tolerate discussion beyond the party line. The prophet who went all reactionary on everyone’s ass and started excommunicating left and right had got under my skin when he was just one of the many General Authorities. Didn’t surprise me that he turned out to be a jerk. I think he was the same one who was responsible for the Proclamation on the Family, the original of which was far worse than even the piece of crap that they adopted as the official version.
Although it definitely IS another world, music, there was a time when composers did convince each other to move in rational directions.
Mozart Haydn and Beethoven pretty much agreed on an intellectual basis about a new delivery of music, resulting in new ideas of beauty and proportion.
It’s not generally meaningful to real life, but it is at least an example. Funny how it still works out to be emotional.
g’nite rat
Soft landings to you, ratfood.
Thanks.
I vaguely remember that. Do you have it handy?
I am also still on the rolls. It would hurt my father, who I very much respect, horribly for me to have my name removed. He worries enough about my eternal salvation just from my not attending religiously, so to speak. I don’t believe it any more so even though I don’t expect I’ll ever have much to do with them, it’s easier for me to keep that tie than for him as a believer to deal with what it would mean to him if I broke it.
Dec. 3rd was TRex’ last post…
The only time I was ever sexually harrassed was after a La Jolla dinner with high clients. All the sales folk were Mormons. And as I and my male co-presenter had to do a breakfast meeting in Portland after the dinner in La Jolla, and as we had missed the only commercial flight owing to client misbehavior, it is the only time I’ve flown on a private jet. Too late at night to appreciate any benefits.
not a link to it offhand — iirc she was trying to call something a bright shiny thing of distraction and it came out thong…. i’m sure a google search of fdl and bright shiny thong and looseheadprop would find it
TRex was back for a few days just recently until the Rooskie spammers hit. Again. (sigh)
on edit: god it was that long ago. My bad.
Nice example. Thanks. How often one forgets the critically important creative arts, if one is trying to be intellectual.
It’s not reasoning. You are supposed to pray about it and God will let you know. OTOH, it is supposed to make sense, which makes it all the more crazy when it doesn’t and they tell you to take it on faith. It’s funny to me how much Mormons pride themselves on not being crazy like Pentecostals or something, when they really are just as odd ball when it comes right down to it. They so desperately want to be accepted and told they are okay. They should have more compassion for Obama.
everyone got their jammmies and popcorn ready for tonights lln cartoon?
But endearing spelling errors! Mind much faster than fingers.
Well, it only lasted for a brief period.
Essentially, Beethoven broke ranks and invented “Music Default Obligations” and wrecked the music market for a while.
Took some time and innovation for mere mortals to reclaim it. :)
Sweet Valentine dreams!
Maybe I gave up on him too soon. I stopped droping by his site last summer when he hadn’t posted anything for three months. Looks like he is going to be on and off. I guess I won’t remove him from my bookmarks quite yet.
Does me bathrobe count? *g*
jammmies?
Yeeeesss
I was raised R.C. and intended to become a nun until I discovered atheism at age 13, more than half a century ago. So I understand the discrepancy between reason and belief. And how it makes you crazy.
Turning in. Gnite all.
g’nite ecahn
cartoon upstairs
Paid speeches…
stop smoking weed
They’re trying to make Romney okay.
Night, eCAHN.
I agree. I just hope he get his juice back. He’s brilliant.
Most Mormons would love to see Romney as president. My dad thinks he will never be elected, though, because the evangelicals are willing to work with Mormons against gay marriage and whatnot, but they don’t really like Mormons, insist they are not Christian and would never stand for one in the White House. I think he’s probably right. I live in an area with a lot of Mormons, outnumbered by far by evangelicals. It’s an interesting environment. Very Republican and I think most liberals would see it as homogenous, but very splintered religiously which would splinter politically if Romney got close to being nominated.
What’s not to like about Romney? If you find anything, he’ll change it for you!
Freedom is like a valentine. you wish it onsome other yet you dont live it.
Some will be content with a quoted thought . real valentines come from the freedom to think for yourself. If your afraid to think for yourself then send flowers. Or cook dinner.
“Understandably, many in Utah are strongly opposed to cap-and-trade”
Understandably, the majority of the world is opposed to cap-and-trade, once they pass the talk line and begin to discuss action.
I’m disappointed to see the educated class so taken by the Anthropogenic Global Warming hysteria. The Global Warming (and yes I do mean global warming as opposed to climate change – not fair play to change the parameters once you begin to lose the argument) discussion will be reduced to nothing more than responsible environmental stewardship in relatively short order. Obama will certainly attempt to legislate his EPA mandates, but they’ll go nowhere either.
This isn’t just about the money and power grab, it’s also about the stupidity of the AGW argument(s), and what’s left of them.
I remember you! You were in here a few nights ago. You are the dude who got challenged to produce verifiable, scholarly documentation and you never returned.
We were sad to see you go, and await any sign of, you know, evidence (we don’t count fiction writers and industry hacks).
Links would be a good start.
…probably was me, as FDL is one of my last stops before getting away from this stuff and signing off for the day.
Typically, I will preface my remarks if they are an opinion as opposed to commentary regarding what I’ve studied or read.
I do find your request for “verifiable, scholarly documentation” a bit ironic since there is little, if any, in support of AGW. And I would guess one person’s expert could very likely be another person’s hack.
Philip Jones admission this week that the debate has now not been settled over whether the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the current period refutes Michael Mann’s hockey stick proposition; the IPCC can’t produce locations for 42 (rural) of the 84 weather stations located in eastern China, half of which were urban and half rural, so this brings discredit to IPCC’s claims of the severity of the heat island effect; in January the IPCC admitted it had made a mistake in asserting that Himalayan glaciers could disappear by 2035, stating 5 major faults with the report including the fact the report was based soley on a college student’s paper and an article written by an environmentalist in the 90s; a report by the United Nations climate watchdog that global warming might wipe out 40% of the Amazon rainforest was based on an unsubstantiated claim by green campaigners who had little scientific expertise
And this doesn’t even address the corruption involved between big business and politics with regards to Cap and Trade. It’s frightening how little these guys know of the issues and only see the money and power that will be available to them. You are a very good guy, so you earn carbon credits. I am a very bad guy and cause a great deal of pollution. I have to either 1) correct my situation at great cost or 2) buy your good guy carbon credits. Net effect = zero. Except for the $$$ earned by carbon traders, of which IPCC Chairman Rajendra Pachauri is one of the world’s largest investors.
Being an engineer for 40+ years and dedicated to sustainability since the 80s (I am a member of USGBC as a LEED AP and teach sustainabilty), I do take responsible stewardship of the environment very seriously. I’m not going to change your opinion and you are not going to change mine and we both can find plenty of information in support of our position. But, please, don’t summarily write us off as right-wing hack deniers simply because we become suspect when a handful of scientists withhold their data that can likely change the global financial environment.
That’s right—nobody’s state will outhustle them for the crown of most ignorant. You just wait and see, morans.
its a damn shame, but the US is fast devolving into a sad case of the lunatics running the asylum. You’d think at some point even the plutocrats orchestrating the permanent plundering of US wealth for their little band of thieves would get concerned that the whole thing is careening out of control with the Big Stupid in charge of everything. But they don’t appear to feel that their overwhelming psychotic greed is threatened by the wreck of the US and emergence of repug nation.
You’re a [edited by mod].
Philip Jones admission this week that the debate has now not been settled over whether the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the current period refutes Michael Mann’s hockey stick proposition
No. It doesn’t. This wasn’t an “admission.” Nothing he said to the BBC is “news” or remotely surprising. That you believe otherwise shows that you just don’t care about understanding anything.
And that’s just for openers for the stuff you don’t know anything about — like the slander against Pachauri, which you don’t even know is slander.
The fact that you’re an engineer and bragging on it is drearily predictable. Self-identified engineers love flaunting their credentials in comments sections; it’s like you’re holding up a flag saying “I’m a crackpot and proud of it.”
You’re right though that trying to “debate” you is pointless, because you’re a self-described [edited by mod], so I’ll content myself with suggesting that you [edited by mod].
[modnote: please demolish the arguments, not the commenter, thank you.]
Utah…I don’t know much about Utah. Everyone one in Utah are mostly related..right? Mostly everybody belong to a cult invented by a man with ‘Magic’ glasses who found a ‘Magic’ book etc…Right? But what the heck they have one heck of a great choir!
THERS seems to be the problem. The more he spews his hot air, the colder our planet will be.
Any scientist will tell you that CO2 absorbs heat, the more CO2 the less heat, less heat equals cooling. Not only that, but more CO2 means less UV radiation reaching the planet, thus cooling. Plants thrive on CO2.
Humans exhale CO2 and plants convert CO2 to pure oxygen, just perfect together. By the way, if the Copenhagen treaty went through, Americans would have been limited as to how many children they could have.
THERS are those that have made Global Warming (Climate Change) into some kind of religious cult and we must all submit to the United Nations junk science that have proven to be fraudulent back in Dec 09.
Follow the money. Wall Street and Swiss banks will issue carbon credits and bundle your carbon taxes into leveraged derivatives and when these derivatives fail THE FED issues credit to the banks and we get to pay for these bad investments.
Al Gore is alleged to have interests in corporations that trade in energy and carbon credits. This is based on the ENRON/Ken Lea business model. So, if Al Gore is your Global Warming cult leader and you will submit to Al Gore and pay your carbon taxes to him and his billionaire bankster buddies, go ahead, you are a [edited by mod] or a community college professor with over 300 children.
“Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon. And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.”
I made a comment on Jones interview. If this is now a matter of greater dispute as admitted and not “settled science”, it certainly does raise doubt about Mann’s hockey stick curve taken entirely from Jones data – which has now been “lost”
“And that’s just for openers for the stuff you don’t know anything about — like the slander against Pachauri, which you don’t even know is slander.”
Slander?!? If you are fine with Pachauri – the fox – overseeing IPCC – the henhouse – and see no conflict of interest, then I suppose you believe Gore is all about the environment.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html
“The fact that you’re an engineer and bragging on it is drearily predictable. Self-identified engineers love flaunting their credentials in comments sections; it’s like you’re holding up a flag saying “I’m a crackpot and proud of it.”
Disagree with me as you please, but I am and always have been proud of the work I’ve done, albeit as a “crackpot”!
1. None of that is true. Again, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.
2. Yep, slander. He doesn’t personally profit from these deals, which aren’t really a problem anyhow.
3. I don’t give a shit about the “work you’ve done.” Whatever it is, it hardly gives you a license to talk crap on the Internet, though “engineers” often pretend it does.
4. You can’t even manage to [edited by mod] properly.
So sorry, I neglected to add that I am a concealed carry, right-wing Christian engineer and USGBC LEED AP!
…now go and take your meds!
…the gift that just keeps on giving
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61C1V420100213
…and giving
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6991177.ece
…it doesn’t stop!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/global-warming/Now-IPCC-claims-on-Amazon-fall-flat/articleshow/5502902.cms
With regards to slander, I suppose:
Bush = big oil = fact
Cheney = Haliburton = fact
Pachauri = documented carbon trading conflicts of interest = slander
Interesting progressive analysis. Have you [Edited by Moderator. You can slow down with the personal attacks]? I’m a bit concerned.
“You’re a [edited by mod].”
“Philip Jones admission this week that the debate has now not been settled over whether the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the current period refutes Michael Mann’s hockey stick proposition.”
“No. It doesn’t. This wasn’t an “admission.” Nothing he said to the BBC is “news” or remotely surprising. That you believe otherwise shows that you just don’t care about understanding anything.”
“None of that is true. Again, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025591.php
I reckon I don’t.
“Concealed carry”…? Uh-huh.
And a PowerTools link. Heh.