The recent decision of the UK High Court to release a seven paragraph summary of the torture perpetrated by U.S. agents upon Binyam Mohammed in April and early May 2002 is welcome news. The summary, written by a British court, was derived from 42 classified CIA documents delivered to the British legal authorities as part of an investigation into the actions of MI5 in the torture and interrogation of Binyam Mohamed and other prisoners held by Pakistan. These documents purportedly describe the torture of Mohamed, and indicate the collusion of U.S., British, and Pakistani authorities in the torture.
The seven paragraph summary was enlightening on a number of points, though the information that Mohamed had been tortured in a fashion similar to Abu Zubaydah, was first reported in a book by Mohamed attorney Clive Stafford Smith in 2006. In Britain, outrage is focused upon the actions of British intelligence agency MI5, which, despite an effort by the government to censor a damning portion of the seven paragraphs, focused, according to the UK Guardian, on the charge “that MI5 had treated basic rights with contempt and had lied to the parliamentary watchdog which provides its only oversight.”
In the United States, John F. Burns at the New York Times noted:
What was starkly new, however, was the Foreign Office’s conclusion that the treatment Mr. Mohamed endured, had it been carried out under the authority of British officials, would have breached international treaties banning torture. It was the first time that Britain has been so blunt about its disapproval of the interrogation techniques approved by former President George W. Bush and curtailed last year by President Obama.
“Although it is not necessary for us to categorize the treatment reported, it could readily be contended to be at the very least cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment by the United States authorities,” the document posted on the Foreign Office Web site said.
Burns failed to note that the summary paragraphs stated that Mohamed’s sleep deprivation had been “carefully observed” for its “effects.” The UK Guardian did not miss this point, noting:
It is also clear that the CIA, on whose behalf the Pakistanis were holding Mohamed, was monitoring the effects upon Mohamed.
The NYT story also buried the significance of the timeline in the torture case. As both blogger-investigative journalist Marcy Wheeler and blogger-psychologist-activist Stephen Soldz have pointed out in articles Wednesday, the use of CIA-style “enhanced interrogation” torture was directly “conducted by the United States authorities prior to 17 May 2002 as part of a new strategy designed by an expert interviewer.” This puts the use of these techniques approximately ten weeks or more before the John Yoo-drafted Bybee memo on August 1, 2002, supposedly authorizing such abuse.
What about the 42 Classified CIA Documents?
Lost in all the hullabaloo around the struggle to release the seven paragraph summary of Binyam’s torture is the fact that there has long been a battle over the 42 classified CIA documents themselves. Originally only seven of the 42 documents, heavily redacted, were released to Binyam Mohamed’s attorneys. After a legal battle, they finally obtained the full set. The British High Court then took in October 2008 what Clare Algar at Reprieve called “the unusual step of inviting the press to make an application for the publication of details of Binyam’s mistreatment which had been removed from its original judgment at the request of the Government.”
The press made their application, and also asked for the secret documents themselves, i.e., not just the redacted summary. In response, British Foreign Secretary David Milbrand shocked everyone by claiming that the U.S. had threatened to cut intelligence-sharing ties with Great Britain if the summarized information or the documents themselves were released. Evidently, this threat on behalf of the U.S. continued over from the Bush to the Obama administration.
The case was then duly litigated, leading to the release on February 10 of the seven paragraph summary. But the 42 classified documents, with all the possible information they hold on the process of the interrogation, on its planning, on the personnel involved, on the collaboration with British authorities, and on any possible experimentation based on the monitoring of the torture, remain classified and unavailable.
It is important to remember that what the documents call “sleep deprivation,” was really a set of joined techniques. As I described it in an article last June, “sleep deprivation” included standing sleep deprivation, shackling in forced positions, nudity (save for a diaper!), a near-starvation diet, suspension, and, initially at least, up to 240 hours of continuous sleep deprivation. They weren’t monitoring only sleep deprivation, they were monitoring a full torture program!
Is it possible they were using newly developed telemetric devices developed under a research program funded by the Army’s Ft. Detrick, whose association with the CIA in the development of biological and chemical weapons, including for use in interrogations, goes back to the 1950s? Such a study was underway in 2002, studying how to measure the physiological effects of “uncontrollable stress” on subjects who underwent SERE torture as part of the military’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape program. The study was entitled The Warfighter’s Stress Response: Telemetric and Noninvasive Assessment. While formulated for use on predicting “military performance” and assessing selection procedures for personnel, this research — and this remains speculative — could have been used to assess an individual’s response to real-life, and not just simulated torture. One of the researchers is linked to the CIA and its Science and Technology directorate, and was also an “expert” on the Intelligence Science Board panel that produced the “Educing Information” document upon which the Obama administration is relying for a purported reform of interrogation policy.
While it was important to fight for the release of the court’s summary, the fight to release the documents in this case must not end here. The 42 classified CIA documents represent a keystone in the U.S. government’s contemporary torture program. It is my hope that the UK Guardian, the New York Times, and other press interests will not leave off their legal battle to receive these documents, and that the UK High Court itself will see that a full disclosure of this evidence is in the best interests of justice.
It’s just possible that the release of the seven paragraphs themselves could augur a release of the full set of CIA documents. The U.S. will do everything it can to avoid this possibility. On the other hand, the summary in and of itself can represent a limited hangout of the torture program information, tantalizing, but without crucial follow-up. American citizens must call for a full, independent, open investigation into the torture program here, with complete access to records and right to subpoena, and refer the necessary cases for prosecution under due process of law.
The media narrative surrounding the release of the latest revelations on the Binyam Mohamed case is being devised even as I write. It is crucial that the demand for the release of the full set of CIA documents be made a primary component of that narrative.




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Thank you, Jeff.
The media “narrative” has been being ‘sexed down’ for some time …
And you are correct, American citizens must insist, as the Political Cla$$, including the punditry, is largely complicit.
The larger issue of secrecy must be engaged as well.
It does not become us unless we, the citizens, the “people”, allow it.
DW
Thanks for this Jeff.
Once again, I weep for what my country has become.
You mean that once bright and shining star of freedom?
Cuz, we certainly have our work cut out for us as we try to return to anywhere close to that point in time.
Jeff, as always, nicely done.
the golden rule- we cant even live up to a very simple and moral rule we teach our children
I was so accepting myself with how the narrative had come down that it took me almost a full day, and musing upon the revelations in the summary itself, to realize that we had too easily accepted the British courts decision to suppress the documents themselves.
It’s as if only the right knows how to operate the Overton window. Still, the summary revelations and the opinions of the British court should be political dynamite on this side of the pond. The fact it apparently has only fizzled can only be attributed in part to the failure of the MSM. One wonders if psychologically the population is worn down.
Nice article Jeff, but I would like to point out, that it isn’t just the last few years that “torture” and atrocities by US soldiers have been going on. This has been going on for decades, so the US hasn’t really become anything more than it already was..except it was hidden better before. Verified atrocities have occured everywhere US soldiers have went to uphold democracy, etc, etc, etc. The oldest I remember being told about, was mass murdering of civilians during the Korean War. And the civilians just happened to be allies! It’s just the past 30 years that elected officials really don’t care about hiding it any more.
Thanks for covering this.
Between this story and reading about Dr. Aafia Siddiqui in a piece by Paul Craig Roberts today news has been a bit dispiriting. The things that change are rarely for the better any more. The more we learn the better able we will be to hold on to our sense of injustice and perhaps find ways to address this. This is not how I expected things to turn out for our country when I was young and read about the Nuremberg Trials.
Like other major “failures’ today, that of the media is deliberate and intentional.
Related: Francis Boyle has filed a complaint with the ICC against Bush Administration officials for their illegal renditions.
Excellent post, Jeff. Thank you.
Unfortunately, the only positive practical consequence of documenting this abysmal period in America will be reaped by future PhD students writing dissertations on the moral corruption of the US circa 2002. More nefariously, these writings will be cited approvingly by future apologists for future horrors that will also go unpunished.
The problem is, if they really do start investigating and find guilt for anything, then they technically would have to for all sorts of years, and not just the Bush Admin. That would be suicide for either party, so they won’t do it. That simple. If CIA “torture” was illegal and wrong, how is that any different than bombing runs on sovereign nations? Both parties leaders have done this.
Absolutely right. And I’ll add: As authorized by Congress. No one who has the opportunity to publicly ask a Member of Congress a question [particularly powerful conmmittee chairs like Carl Levin, Dianne Feinstein (whatever happened to her secret "six-month" investigation of the CIA's conduct in this arena, anyway?), John Kerry, Patrick Leahy, or their House counterparts] should fail to ask them when the Congressional hearings on upholding America’s Convention Against Torture treaty obligations will begin…
If seems more and more evident that if and when the U.S. government ever gets around to facing its obligations under international law and our Constitution, concerning what our Congress (and media) let the Executive Branch get away with, scot-free, over the last decade, what will finally be publicly exposed will be of a magnitude to demolish whatever credibility and respect our Executive Branch and Congress still retain in the eyes of the American people. What those powers-that-be don’t realize or refuse to accept is that it’s only going to get worse for them, the longer they dishonor their public offices by obstinately refusing to do their duty.
We’re so obviously still being lied to and “shielded” by Those Who Know What’s Good For Us, as this statement by Binyam Mohamed attorney Clive Stafford Smith yesterday further evidences:
You’re absolutely right, canadianbeaver. I’ve written on this very subject numerous times, and if somehow I presented this material inferring there was no previous history, then that was my error.
And an error all the more ironic, as I’ve written an article with H.P. Albarelli that directly looks at a well-documented but little remarked case of rendition and torture by the CIA in the 1950s, and tie that in to the current situation. So believe me when I say I agree with you. I’ll let FDL readers know when the article comes out, and where.
That’s a great piece by Roberts, entitled “It’s Official: America is a Police State”. Meant to be provocative, this is IMO the money quote:
I’m going to channel George Orwell and call this “futurethink”, wherein we predict a dire future and look to the present with hopelessness. I know this is not your intention, but we must be on guard against pessimism, while not, of course, succumbing to bland ameliorism or panglossian pragmatism.
Well, somehow we got around this conundrum in the 1970s with the Church committee and other investigations. I agree that it would be somewhat tumultuous. But sooner or later the tumult will come. The question for those who run this society is, how tumultuous will it become? Will the pressure be let out, ultimately, as some kind of social explosion? After the U.S. finally completely oversteps its bounds and either suffers military defeat, or more likely, the kind of economic collapse we apparently barely skirted and remain dangling close to now?
Thanks for elucidating that the seemingly benign description of “sleep deprivation” – who hasn’t worked or studied or been kept awake all night by a sick spouse, friend or baby? – is much more than a little lost sleep. It bears as close a relationship to that as to Donald Rumsfeld mockingly claiming that he stands up all day, so why is that a problem for a few inmates.
A cabby or truck driver, a medical intern or a soldier, might work two or three days without sleep. Even then, they normally move about freely and compensate for lack of sleep with food, drink and other distractions.
What Jeff describes is prolonged and severely debilitating forced loss of sleep – ten days or more – combined with other high-stress induced behavior: lack of food, forced standing, muscle cramping and circulation limited stress positions, lights and noises, ad nauseum.
That is a study in torture in order to induce desired behavior, starting with the mental breakdown of the victim. When that happens, and often long before, the victim will say whatever is desired in order to make the pain stop. True or not, complete or not, timely or not.
In that mental state, the victim can’t discern fact from fantasy. S/he can only tell that talking sometimes makes the pain go away. That’s a one-line joke when the subject is Sarah Palin or Newt Gingrich speaking. It is a side-effect of criminal behavior when induced through torture by a government throwing out 200 years of legal history by claiming that something “new” has happened that requires us to act like animals in order to protect ourselves from other, alleged animals.
It is hard to determine just what civilization or culture such behavior is meant to protect. It’s not simply for the utilitarian reason that torture is produces false information. It’s because such behavior is as wrong and illegal as the behavior the government claims to be protecting us from. That behavior quickly institutionalizes itself and requires ever more bizarre denials and cover-ups, more euphemisms, more bald-faced exclamations of “So?” by ever higher authority figures. And it induces the suspension of normal prosecutorial standards of inquiry when the probability that crimes have been committed come to the attention of senior government lawyers.
It’s time the people told their public leaders to just say no to torture. For those guilty of having committed it, for those who make a paying business out of defending it, doing so may be as hard as giving up crack. We put people in jail who can’t do that. We should do the same for those not strong enough to stop torturing and covering up torture.
Jeff, any idea who (which senator or congressman) might feel even slightly compelled to do their duty if we the little people demanded they do so?
This is an important question, one worthy of doing some research and thought, rather than give an impressionistic answer. Perhaps there is someone out there like that. I’ll put my thinking cap on for this important question.
To earlofhuntington @18: well put!
Brilliantly and powerfully well said, powwow.
DW
I fear you are absolutely correct. Complete economic collapse is what seems to be on the horizon. If America were to do the just and moral thing with regards to this torture, the political turmoil would be staggering. Dem leaders and Rep leaders are guilty of commiting many of these atrocities. One big can of worms for sure. Even the current Prez and his predator preferences would be open to scrutiny. Sigh. Like that would happen. Civil war would break out first because people don’t want to believe their elected leaders are corrupt murderous thugs. They’d wave the flag and sing the national anthem first. Look at 9/11 and how quickly a response was wanted, without caring or knowing why it happened.
You is droll, Jeff, but wonderfully so.
“Panglossian pragmatism” indeed.
DW
Dick Cheney, Chief of the Shadow Government, where no one is elected stated on FOX Press of Freedom that the CIA’s actions will be judged by the history he will write. Any investigation of said torture will show weakness to the enemy and we will be less safe.
Too true, and most likely, canadianbeaver.
As well, Jeff, @ 17 you have divined our likely trajectory.
DW
We’re now putting up with the second pro-torture U.S. president. How ’bout we stop this bullshit before we get to the third?
Justice is coming, it has to.
Thanks for staying on this like a rat terrier.
Either we rip out the cancer or the cancer consumes us.
This is the end game of a military society the ability to take out, torture, indefinitely detain, experiment on, target with a drone and light up a city like Baghdad with the attendent death and destruction to applause of the citizens.
It’s the legitimization of dehumanization in deference to the state, big mistake.
What our country was and what it’s become can be defined as TORTURE/ MURDER/ TREASON. There will be no leaders to lead us out of this other than Marcy, Mary, Jeff and a multitude of little people waiting to be called.
We’ve a ways to go before reaching the worst of all possible worlds, firedoglike, but we’re almost there.
DW
Just two?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
“It is hard to determine just what civilization or culture such behavior is meant to protect.”
Ok, I’ll bite.
Its fairly clear that any civilization of culture that practices such behavior is hardly worth protecting.
I do think you need some bigger picture and smaller picture items to make it all more coherent.
First off is the way the 42 docs, much less the 7 paragraphs, came to be at issue. All of this originally happened before BM was released from GITMO and while he was looking at military commissions for being – with uncharged Jose Padilla – a “dirty bomb” plotter, based on the lap top documented visits Mohamed and/or Padilla had made to a satirical site that described how you could make a nuclear weapon by swinging a bucket around your head.
As more and more info became available publically about BMs case, Cheneyco tried to get a plea deal in place before Bush left office – some of which is outlined here:
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/mohamed-judgment3-annexe-230309.pdf
So BMs lawyers were trying to get access to the evidence on which charges against him were going to be based and ALSO exculpatory evidence (like info that confessions were based on torture). The GITMO prosecutor was stating over and over in writing that BMs claims of torture were “demonstrably false” and the US would not make info available and where BM was during a missing 2 year period (Pakistan and Morocco).
So BMs lawyers had the pretty good idea that they should go to Britain and see what info IT had, under the argument that if it had exclupatory (like torture info)info then a court there could order that it be made available to the lawyers confidentially, so that they could use that info in the defense of their client in the US proceedings.
Pretty astonishingly, given all the pressure he was under and what had happened to him before, BM refused to take the plea deal, even though as a part of the plea deal negotiations the GITMO prosecutor spelled out that even if BM was acquitted at the military commission then the US would still follow the “Capn Jack” doctrine and continue to hold him as an enemy combatant, forever blackholed at GITMO.
So when this case was getting geared up in Summer of 08, the real issue was whether or not BMs lawyers could get a British court to direct that Britain’s intel crew make info and docs available to BM for his defense use during the GITMO commissions.
MEanwhile, back in the US, the DOJ was being pressed by Judge Sullivan to make documents avaialable to defense counsel as well. A part of the reasoning of the High Court (lower court in this instance) in Britain – and what well may have become a US court issue too if the BM case had proceeded – was that whatever the agreements of confidentiality between intel services under a public immunity or control principle agreement, when there was a criminal or civil suit at issue where the info was required by a litigant, then the confidentiality would fail. Also, but secondarily, at issue was the concept of whether the British gov could claim secrecy of info that was info about the commissions of crimes generically – separate and apart from the “use for litigation” issue. The court was less certain on that issue than it was on the issue of need for the info in a piece of criminal litigation. In connection with the litigation against BM, the court had no trouble finding that his counsel should be given access to the info (and might have gone on to a more general publication issue later)
This is where Obamaco decided to also suppress the docs, but to try to do an end run around the litigation issue that the British court was focused on by dismissing charges and sending BM home after releasing (in response to requests by Judge Sullivan here) only 7 heavily redacted docs. At this point they thought they’d disenfranchised Judge Sullivan from pushing harder by getting BM turned over to Britain and dismissing US charges. They also though they’d cut the strongest argument for the info getting “out” off at the knees – no more pending criminal litigation.
It’s against that backdrop that you have the high court’s actions of inviting the press to pursue a turnover of the info – very much unprecedented. It’s also agains that backdrop that you have the appellate court’s decision that focused on the Control Principle. What is still up in the air is what if BM or Scotland (Baroness Scotland, the AG) either or both decide that the litigation issue is going to be on the plate again.
A criminal case or CAT victim suit in Britain might give rise to whole different set of rulings on the 42 docs.
There is also the issue of how much of the 42 docs is really “US” info, given the use of the “Muslim 007″ aka Informant A, who was sent to meet with BM in Morocco – Informant A was a British citizen and also was supposedly trying to get BM to talk to BRITISH, not US, intel as a ticket out of Morocco – although supposedly Informant A was earlier captured and turned by the US. That’s some pretty murky stuff and if Informant A had British ties, then some of the info in the 42 docs (or other docs) may be deemed non-US info after all, such that the control principle doesn’t even apply, much less trump.
What was really interesting was that there was almost no reaction to Judge Kessler’s decision in December when it was declassified even though it details much more info than is in the 7 paragraphs, and yet there has been a WH explosion on the 7 paragraphs front. I think the difference is that with just US courts involved, Obamaco know that no one is going to be charged with anything in a US court bc the prosecution is owned by the torturers. Once you get beyond the US courts, though, and especially with the High Court noises that it made about litigation and the Scotland investigation – things become less controllable.
And the the US ends up unavoidably dragging Morocco into the mess as well – as if Morocco doesn’t have enough problems of its own. And its with a CIA file full of info about what happens to detainees in Morocco that the US shipped Errachidi from GITMO to Morocco, hoping to have him disappeared into the “Moroccan Treatment” once it was clear that he had been held and tortured for years and for – - – making souffles in Mayfair. Morocco refused to be a party to the plan in the end, when too much press got wind of where Errachidi ended up – but how would that shipment comply with CAT when we have the BM file? And of course, no one is looking into that, either – who set up Errachidi for shipment to Morocco even while we have direct knowledge of the BM torture in that custody.
‘Tis treason most foul, tjbs.
But the price of it will be paid by all, our victims and ourselves.
As a people, we must find the courage to speak to it … and even contemplate a fitting punishment, else we lose everything. It will not a pleasant thing, the howls of rage will echo through the meager “philosophy” of “exceptionalism” and “doing God’s work” with devastating affect, and the timid will shrink away. But all our principles and the rule of law itself, hang in the balance.
And we have few friends in this world … our ability to produce wealth is gutted and all our “systems” corrupted.
The stench will not go away, but will become stronger and more noisome every.single.day.
“Right or wrong”, “drunk or sober”, the day of our nation’s reckoning draws ever closer.
Start at the top, fine everyone directly involved in the decision to torture, each $1,000,000 per count of torture. ( KSM = 182 million, etc ) Suspended sentences for the rest. Give Jane the money. I am sure it will be well spent. I know that will never happen. What would be just, without destroying our ability to move forward?
You are too kind in your “consequence”, but then, MONEY is where they live … when they are not usurping power, so perhaps that will be deemed “sufficient” by most.
Some forgiveness is necessary. Forgiveness is not permission to repeat the offense. It is to heal the wounded.
After a full and fair trail anyone found guilty should be stripped of their citizenship and all their worldly possessions.
No hanging, but locked up for life in Baghdad with no public notice of their passing.
Forgiveness without any admission of wrong doing?
Forgivness with no effort at even token atonement?
When Bush was President, I knew some “spiritual” folks who declared that they had forgiven Bush, when he was still killing people (I know ole Bush never hurt a fly).
The purpose of such forgiveness appeared to me to be simply so that the forgivers didn’t have to think about the killing … for a while.
Isn’t the purpose of the forgiveness you advocate premised on the notion that we really don’t want to look very deeply at our “leaders” or ourselves?
Enlighten me, please, WVMJ.
DW
Why burden Baghdad?
Afterall, they are OUR depraved thugs, and we have bedevilled Irak quite enough.
Other than that, tjbs, you’ve got the spirit of the thing well in hand.
Would you dare to talk to your friends and family about this?
That is the next step …
DW
Jeff,
Thanks for seeing through the noise around the 7 paragraphs to focus our attention on the underlying 42 documents. That is a tremendous approach to take in continuing to pull on the threads that now begin to be exposed. I would suggest that you also pass the idea along to the ACLU and/or CCR to see if they would join with the media groups in pursuing release of the documents.
Thanks, Mary, for wading through the weeds to put the fight over the 42 docs into historical perspective, and indicate what issues may lie ahead regarding them.
I deliberately have left the call for release of the CIA docs opaque, i.e., I don’t indicate who should release them, the U.S. or Britain.
I wished to make the point (which also answers the question as to why the U.S. is in a snit over the summary release) that there was something in the summary that was very bad. In fact, it is what I predicted it would be some time ago, i.e., evidence of medical experimentation on prisoners, a war crime under every definition of torture and war crime, something for which there is no defense.
Now, noting that there was carefully observing the “sleep deprivation” (which I’ve pretty clearly made clear was much more than sleep deprivation, but a full torture program) is not absolute proof of experimentation, but it points in a very definite direction.
The leopard does not change his spots: this homely cliche is nevertheless true, and is especially so when it comes to societal institutions. The entire history of the CIA points to ongoing and pervasive illegal human experimentation. I too thought it was a thing of the past, and was only convinced by empirical evidence as it has gathered over the last nine years or so.
The charge of illegal medical experimentation opens a new door into the torture issue, one which irrevocably leads to the need for full investigation and accountability, or a green light to the worst kinds of abuses a society can endure.
To Jim @39, this is a good point. I could see what they think. Thanks.
And re the various comments on forgiveness… I am not against it. When the time comes, it will be an important discussion. For now, we are battling to get out the truth, and as earlofhuntington implies, to fight for our civilization. That may sound grandiose or melodramatic, but that is where we are. I didn’t invent the situation. Either we face it now, or something worse in the future.
Thanks, Jeff, and thanks powwow and Mary for providing additional insight. A small critique on where to focus energy at this point:
It is not enough to have the statement,
We desperately need a completed piece of litigation in this area, and it doesn’t matter whether it comes from U.S. courts, British courts, the ECHR, or anyone else. The perpetrators of these actions were doing so explicitly with the belief that they could get away with it under U.S. and international law precisely because there had been no decision by a court that it was torture and not cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. The lack of case law was cited repeatedly by the perpetrators as to why this would work, and while it is to be expected that a reporter, John F. Burns for example, wouldn’t understand the significance of a final decision on whether or not it was torture, the significance in light of the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear Rasul v. Myers is the following: If it is CIDT, then it is legal for U.S. personnel to have carried it out on foreign soil by the current U.S. reading of the law. Under international law, which those who put the program together are well aware, it is only banned to used the results in a court of law under CAT if it is torture, not if it is CIDT. While it is banned, and is as well a crime to have both committed CIDT on prisoners in armed conflict and to use the results in court under international humanitarian law, that obviously won’t work right now because the U.S. courts aren’t admitting that the MCA can’t be allowed to forbid them from considering IHL. So we have the Torture Act, the TVPA and the CAT. And it is a huge threshold that the perpetrators were actively using to avoid prosecution to determine whether a court will rule this torture or CIDT. That’s why they bothered with telemetric measures of stress and associated techniques at all. If they can get a court to agree that they went up to the dividing line and stayed on the CIDT side, the information becomes good in U.S. courts and the perpetrators get off.
There needs to be a judgment in some court somewhere as to what the described treatment is. That’s where all the effort needs to focus, on getting a verdict that says that this stuff is indeed torture. Otherwise, the U.S. and Britain can continue to use the precedent of the “five techniques”, use Principle of Origination and Control, use the MCA, and use the Rasul v. Myers verdict to get off completely and make these techniques, and the information derived, legal.
Thanks Jeff for this post, and thanks to the commenters as well.
This is a sorry business that needs lots of air and sunlight.
Bob in AZ
These are excellent points, and I will try to take mind of them. Let me ask you, if there is evidence of illegal medical experiments on prisoners, is this not torture under both U S and Int’l law?
Either way I totally agree with you re the need for some court somewhere to stop the torture and CIDT.
You wrote, “it is only banned to used the results in a court of law under CAT if it is torture, not if it is CIDT”. I didn’t k ow that. Can you refer me to further reading on that? Thanks for all your great work and writing.
My friends know where I stand ( they say they like me but not my politics). I have left my religion and the weekly vigil I was at for five years because I’m vocal.
Firedoglake leaves out a key fact here: Mohammed claimed that his penis was sliced and filled with a hot liquid by interrogators. Is that one of the redacted parts? The fact that the paragraph is being hidden is proof in itself that something horrible was done to Mohamed’s body.
“Biological experiments” on prisoners, or on sick and wounded soldiers or on sailors, or on civilians, are banned under the Geneva Conventions, and in fact a grave breach (serious war crime) under all four of the Geneva Conventions of 1949. That would make them also illegal under the War Crimes Act when committed by civilians. But both of those deal only with situations of armed conflict, which arguably is how the prisoners are being held. Not sure how that would work out in court in the U.S. but elsewhere it holds water.
As to your question about the CAT, information taken by torture is banned in Article 15. Article 16 is the article that extends prohibitions from torture to CIDT, and the one that the U.S. wrote its famous reservations about. It extends Articles 10,11,12,13 (and defines itself in terms of Article 1), but it doesn’t extend Article 15, which I’m sure the lawyers for the intel users and perpetrators will note whenever they have to.
Something that also might help you would be to look at (I haven’t yet) any work being done elsewhere on the IPPCED, and what they say. When the “five techniques” trial happened, there was a whole lot less forensic and other psychological and neurological/neuroscientific information available about deprivation tortures like sleep deprivation and extreme isolation. It’s possible that verdict would be decided differently now, and it’s obvious that Yoo&Co. relied heavily on that verdict, given all their worries about the effects of multiple techniques. Off hand, I can’t remember whether that verdict was British or ECHR, I don’t have my copy of Rejali handy.
Much thanks for your help. Re IPPCED, I believe they labeled the five techniques as CIDT, but not torture. And yes, possibly that would be different now. It was a terrible verdict and a setback, IMO, for anti-torture forces.
That’s very enlightening re Article 15 and the Reservations. The lawyers poured over CAT with a fine tooth comb to try and foresee every contingency and create every loophole they could.
Re experiments: I think they know it’s very illegal, and have less loopholes to get them out of that crime, hence they’ll do all they can to cover it up.