My goodness, Eli. Waiting to evaluate until there is more evidence. How progressive is that?

Actually, I think there’s plenty of evidence for any one of the negative scenarios you deail.

Like I said, I lean that way. But I still think it’s possible that he plans to make the Republicans look like idiots. Of course, it could probably still backfire.

Wyden’s on Rachel trying to sybillantly sound intelligent about the senate. C-A-N-’-T B-E D-O-N-E.

Ron Wyden just said that “If both sides get together we can defeat the special interests.” These people think we are rubes.

Of course it’s designed to make the Rs look like idiots. Doesn’t matter. Even if it does that. Voters want accomplishments. Doesn’t do that.

Now if O had set out to destroy R HCR… Oh wait.

It’s a one-sided battle.

Until we have people who are actually affected by these bills, it’s going to be more hopey-changey monologues from snake oil salesmen like Ron Wyden.

Um, no. We people think they are rubes.

Wyden:

“…all options on the table..”

Thanks Ron.

Obama Administration mission statement:

Run Ruin the table.

But like Eli, I remain optimistic.

OMG. Next up on Rachel is Ezra Klein as the gold seal in editorials.

Knowing Obama, he’s probably going to take the middle route and take a even more water down version of the bill while having bipartisan republican support. By doing this, Obama will be able to achieve political victory by working across the isle with republicans. The only thing blocking Obama from doing this is House progressives blocking the current senate wealthcare bill.

He really doesn’t have many choices left at this route. I guess we’ll known by the end of the month.

Heh!

Way back when I lived in Oregon (’88 – ’92) he was quite the dude. He was in the House then.

The senate has some corrosive air about it; that’s for damn sure. It ain’t the same Ron Wyden anymore.

I think that it’s Lucy and the football again. What will it take for our “leadership” to come to the realization that they will never ever ever negoitiate in good faith?

…hopey-changey monologues

How’s that working for ya…? ;-)

Yeah, his plan probably is to the Look at the Wookie strategy where he engages in misdirection so that people wont see his corporate whoredom.

Guess he hasn’t learmed to curb the sibilant s in the interim.

All snark aside, it takes more corp $$ to get elected to the senate than to the house. If it’s more complicated, let me know.

My hopeful side surpised me today with the thought that Obama may be getting ready to support some type of reconciliation bill. Republicans will squeal like stuck pigs, but Obama will be able to say I tried and you weren’t willing to work with us. Recent history gives me no reason to be this optimistic, but one never knows.

Don’t you mean more like what the Droid said? Let the Wookie win?

The other factor here is the House progressives who have said they won’t vote for the public option. Obama’s choices are to either steamroller them (which would beg the question of why he didn’t steamroller Nelson & Lieberman to get the bill he claimed he wanted), or to push for reconciliation to restore the public option, which 51 Democratic senators have expressed support for.

BTW Eli, faboo image on the post! Love MC Escher, and this parody is great.

“When we open the box, will it be a LIVE kitteh or a DEAD kitteh?”

Thanks! I wasn’t sure if there would even *be* an image for Schrodinger’s Cat.

At this point, unless he’s willing to do serious arm-twisting and ass-stomping, the results are going to be negative.
And I don’t think he’s quite grasped that not only will all the Rs vote against anything he proposes, but so will at least a half-dozen Ds. (I wonder what Rahm keeps telling him?)

Wyden sounds more like one than most of the people here.

Of course, if he pushes for reconciliation, those half-dozen Dems won’t matter.

I suppose it’s a hopeful sign that he didn’t agree to take reconciliation off the table to bring the Republicans to it.

‘Seal’ as in the decorative applique on a certificate, or ‘seal’ as in the animal in zoos and circuses?

especially if Obama’s finally starting to realize how much political trouble he’s in

Maybe it doesn’t matter to them. Maybe the corporations know that it doesn’t matter what sock puppet is in the Oval Office, they get their way? You cannot get any more different than the contrast between Obama and Bush. Bush was a complete buffoon. Obama seems intelligent. Yet both seem to be set in almost exactly the same policies. Bush just did it. Obama blames the Rethug minority, while giving them whatever they (?) want. It isn’t looking like the Dems are wussies, or inept, or shell shocked any more. Looks more like they are members of the same team. And THEY are winning.

PR spin aside, I wonder how grievously harmed Rahm is. If he is weakened, his ability to neutralize House Progs may have waned.

Which is why I remain optimistic.

He’s going to have to work a lot harder to get reconciliation to work.

Good evening Eli. Love the graphic and the concept.

Evening egreg. Thanks!

(I wonder what Rahm keeps telling him?)
reply

I keep wondering just what in the hell he is doing as COS. I have disliked him ever since he claimed credit for the work of the netroots in 06. Which worked despite of him.
I have this bad habit of leaving off my s’s

If you’ve ever seen a film based on a Peter Benchley novel, you know how this will end.

And no, Obama’s not the one with the big teeth.

M.C. Escher meets “Mars Attacks”. This time, can they put all the branches of government in the same room? They can work it out on their own. There are 450 of you in the house. You have a real advantage, the other branches of government and your rivals in the senate are hated worse than you are. Use it.

Here’s the thing…I have been hearing from my conservative republican friends that they can’t stand Obama because all he did during the state of the union is “yelled at us”. “We are sick of him yelling at us”.

They need to be victims and they will always find it. That’s what the authoritarian does. It never about them, it’s always about the Pres. There is nothing the Pres can say logically or otherwise to make it different. The more he presses, the more angry they will get. It’s the way it works. Now what this will do is cause a split. Those that “hate” him…and the rest of us.

Methinks Emanuel believes himself to be bullet proof, figuratively speaking.

whiny bitches

If anyone missed Stephen Colbert’s Death of Satire piece last night, you can watch it here — Hindenburg approaches the mooring tower

It’s what jittery Progressives believe that is of more interest to me. If they can give back as good as they get, and perhaps better, we have us a game.

Rachel seems to have thrown Klein some fishes.

Great concept, but the picture make my head hurt. But, I’m not egregious. Or you.

We’re gonna find out.

Felis Carrollis, not Schroedingerensis

When this box is opened, KC, we’ll find a PR campaign press release touting the benefits of bringing the country together to bailout Big Insurance, Pharma & Wall Street.

Fat cat smiles all around

I’m not much into games. Y’all let me know.

Obama talks the talk once in a very rare while. He walks the walk, well, never. So, he wags his finger at the ‘pukes now and then, while boning the base, and we’re supposed to be etstatic, as Mike Tyson may or may not have said?

Feggedabowdit.

This administration is the Ain’ts, not last Sunday’s Saints.

Zing!

From 2001 A Space Odyssey?

“It’s beautiful.”

“But I don’t think it’s a slam-dunk, especially if Obama’s finally starting to realize how much political trouble he’s in.” He doesn’t think he’s in any trouble from what I can see. He’s surrounded himself in a hermetically sealed Yes bubble.

He’s not alone.

Nice read, I like your takes, and I like your close . . . wait to see how it plays out in real time.

I fear what EVER form the actual forum takes, it’s just kabuki for a further watered down HCR effort that’s designed to impose a mandate without any reforms or benefits for the general public.

I just don’t see Obama and The Dem’s finding any real reform in their hearts when their wallets are fattened to favor the corporate oligarchy.

I remember when he was fun to read before he was WAPO’d.

Cheshire cat smiles all around

Incidentally, the trailer for Tim Burton’s new Alice looked like must see entertainment. A live action Corpse Bride with all of the usual suspects.

The allusion to Schrödinger’s cat is flawed. It is our observation which influences the wave functions to collapse to one state or the other but as we all know progressives never influence anything.

This is not the wookie you are looking for.

;-)

A lot depends on how he views the House progressives, and whether his overriding goal is to pass something, *anything* called healthcare reform, or to deliver for corporate masters.

OMG. Next up on Rachel is Ezra Klein as the gold seal in editorials

More like the leaden ass of. Still it would be fun to see him clap his flippers and balance a ball on his nose.

Obama is “adamant about passing comprehensive reform similar to the bills passed by the House and the Senate.” The WH believes that they have found a new way to put Republicans on the spot. The president will use the forum to try to explain — One. More. Time. Very Slowly — that this approach is the only one that will work. This is the basic disconnect that will make agreement so difficult. Republicans would never agree, nor should they, to plugging a few of their ideas into the monstrous bill the White House and congressional leaders have devised. This legislation cannot be redeemed.

OK people, bite down and resist…

but as we all know progressives never influence anything

I think we need to be more precise with language. For instance, I personally feel I have influenced at least a few voters, and definitely made impressions upon my House critter, DeGette.

Have I influenced policy? Nope, no influence. But incremental voices, choices? Yes indeedy.

I think we should draw a line between the progressive electorate and Allegedly Progressive Representatives.

The whole process from day one to today has been about delivering for the corporations. Why would that change? Yes, Obama is trying to avoid a replay of 1993 but the problem is that in buying into a corp dominated bill he has repeated the central error of the Clinton effort.

I guess another way to phrase the question would be whether Obama would rather admit total defeat than sign a bill that is at all less than ideal for the PhRMA and insurance industries.

The problem is that Obama and the Democrats are trying to set the Republicans up for the failure of healthcare. This fundamentally misunderstands the perspective of the electorate who want real action and not excuses for why it did not occur.

Found this over at Crooks & Liars. Now I know some enterprising Firepup can edit this to change “911″ down in the corner to “whine 11.”

I think we should draw a line between the progressive electorate and Allegedly Progressive Representatives

Absolutely but sometimes the demands of snark limit my expression.

yeah, but I doubt we’re going get help from anyone, with or with the fingernails-on-chalkboard self-announcement.

…or just give in to your baser urges and play Troll Bingo.

the people who have been saying “NO!” to health care reform and every other fuckin’ thing for the past year.

Fixed it.

I agree that this is nothing more than political scapegoating but it will not work.

The Republicans have nothing to lose by attending the summit, presenting their plans and advocating for a step-by-step approach to reform.

“Mr. Bush has reacted by railing against Democrats for obstruction — as if Democrats are duty-bound to breathe life into his agenda and, even sillier, as if opposing a plan that the people do not want is an illegitimate tactic for an opposition party. ” –NYT editorial, 6/23/05

The Republicans have nothing to lose by attending the summit, presenting their plans and advocating for a step-by-step approach to reform.

The problem here is that you’re assuming they actually have plans and want reform.
We’ve seen enough of their plans and policies that we don’t believe them.

Or just call this guy. He’s not picky.

Or we can hope it’s a drive-by shooting…! ;-)

Otherwise, can I roll first…?

That’s why it’s Big Insurance, Pharma, & Wall Street’s Cheshire cat smiles all around, Hugh

Hi, Eli. Your description of this meeting, for some reason, brings to mind a scene from a recent movie, Inglorious Basterds. Where all the ‘real’ basterds are all in one place. It would be too good to ever be true, but I can fantasize, can’t I?

Roll first, roll often.

OT: The answer is no.

Well of course progressives are not going to like any GOP plan. That’s the basic philosophical difference between progressives and conservatives. However a majority of Americans self-identify themselves as conservative.

The debate we have before us is not IF we need reform but in which direction reform should move. Towards government run, single payer or a system where we ultimately end employer based insurance in favor of a true individual insurance market.

Progressives and conservatives want to move in roughly opposite directions. That’s why the offer of moving in the Left’s direction but not quite as far or quite as fast as the Left would ideally like isn’t really very attractive to conservatives. It’s why the individual pieces of their bills that the Democrats try to point to as incorporating Republican ideas don’t really win any Republicans — because the question is which direction are you moving the system in on the whole?

troll bridge

Well of course Conservatives are not going to like any progressive plan. That’s the basic philosophical difference between progressives and conservatives. However a majority of Americans self-identify themselves as progressive.

The debate we have before us is not IF we need reform but in which direction reform should move. Towards government run, single payer or a system where we ultimately end employer based insurance in favor of a individual insurance market that favors insurers.

Progressives and conservatives want to move in roughly opposite directions. That’s why the offer of moving in the Right’s direction but not quite as far or quite as fast as the Right would ideally like isn’t really very attractive to real people. It’s why the individual pieces of their bills that the Democrats try to point to as incorporating Republican ideas don’t really win anybody — because the question is which direction are you moving the system in on the whole?

The beauty of assertions, quod est demonstrata

The country voted for the guy who said he wanted a national HC plan.
The country voted for the guy who said he would straighten out the DOJ.
The country voted for the guy who said he wanted to end wars.

The country voted for the guy who was not a Republican.

Hey Suz, didja see Token got front paged today? Congrats to you both.

It’s a good benchmark for Ultimate Fail, though.

hi Suz

Yet the country got stuck with a Republican.

Oh, yeah, that’s right! Suz, he’s just flat out drop dead adorable.

Which burnishes Indie’s point how?

He is adorable, might very well get my vote in 2012.

“However a majority of Americans self-identify themselves as conservative.”

A poll run by Focus On The Family? The RNC? AEI?

ANY proof of this?

Um, let’s see, standard of living for the middle class past 40 years of Republican Dominated Conservative Politics.

Fewer jobs, lower wages, lower standards of living, less buying power, higher costs for housing, food, education, healthcare . . . for the FIRST time in our country’s history a generation of 20 something’s that will NEVER earn what their parents earned . . . .

Nice work, conservatives . . . . you boosted the corporate oligarchy start to finish and it’s killing our country top to bottom.

Lisa Derrick is upstairs!
UR Doin It Wrong: Fighting Terrorism with Bureaucracy

Wasn’t trying to burnish anything.

I found Indie’s comment a little unclear. Seems not to distinguish between progressive voters and pols who market themselves as progressive but are actually conservatives. I don’t believe anyone in Washington has the best interest of average Americans at heart.

One corporatist party with two marketing departments.

SWEET!

*G*

Wow, I missed that graphic! Thanks Rat, what a GOOD looking pic, Suz!!!! He’s smiling!

My chrystal ball is cloudier than most folks who comment here.

Plus, as we all should know, the damnedest things do sometimes happen.

If nothing else, this summit offers the possibility of good theatre.

“Two parties, equal opportunity hypocrites.” — Bill Moyers

However a majority of Americans self-identify themselves as progressive.

I don’t think so. In a recent Gallup Poll 21% self-identified as liberal, 35% self-identified as moderate and 40% self-identified as conservative.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125579/Asian-Americans-Lean-Left-Politically.aspx

You missed the point. Look to what I was responding.

True – searching for progressive influence has been as fruitful as the search for dark matter or dark energy or Higgs.

Perhaps the cat image might better be a very fat cat as Obama does love the Fat Cats-

and keeping with the math thought – mathematician Charles Dodgson (Lewis Carroll) did use that fat cat – the Cheshire Cat and its smile – in Alice’s Wonderland – which is what Obama land is feeling like these days.

I think “majority” of country in Indie @ 75 comment referred to the Gallup poll that found the largest group to be conservatives with 40% of voters self identifying with the term – much larger than those calling themselves “liberal”.

Of course right wing media and right leaning major media have made “liberal” a swear word – and Gallup does not define any word in the question asked – leaving it to the responder to guess what the word means.

I believe on actual policy we are a large majority liberal/progressive nation, but we on the left suck at selling slogans or single word identities.

The national mood has changed since the president was elected.

With the burst of the housing bubble and near total collapse of the financial system Americans are not in a chance-taking mood. They’re not in a spending mood, not after the unprecedented spending of the past year, from the end of the Bush era through the first year of Obama.

The final bill, is a huge, expensive monstrosity corrupted by carve outs for cronies and flat out bribes.

Everything Americans dislike, even despise about Washington has been magnified by this president and his administration, flying in the face of his campaign promises about “changing the way we do business in Washington”, fiscal responsibility, transparency, no lobbyists, blah, blah, blah.

Gallup does not define “conservative” to the responder so what the Gallup poll 40% means as to particular policies is unknown.

It’s NOT the slogan or single word identity that is the problem…it is the substance of the policies and the core belief that the government is always the best solution to our problems.

If we were truly a center left country Blue Dogs would not exist. Blue Dog “centrists” fell off the fiscal conservative bandwagon on which they rode into office. Not just on HCR — but on the monstrous stimulus plan and corporate bailouts as well.

The so-called moderates never demonstrated any real moderation or inclination to restrain the Reid-Pelosi-Obama agenda. If they had, they could have stopped HCR months ago. But they could not dare go against their party and the new president. When confronted with legislation their conservative constituents hated, they got an earful back home for talking a conservative game, making speeches on fiscal sobriety to get elected, only to roll over for liberal leadership when it comes to actual votes.

In taking Medicare for All off the table, he’s repeated their central error. If he’d proposed that back last February, he’d be a hero now and it’d be going into effect by this June. I don’t think the lesson of ’93-’94 and now 2009 – 2010 is more complicated than that.

I knew Obama would be bad. But I’m damned if I thought he’d bring the Republicans back to life.

My Only God is Rahm