There are a number of untrue things that serious people have to believe about financial matters. One is that this country needs giant banks to stay competitive in the modern world. This bizarre notion was the central argument made by Goldman Sachs brain boy, Robert Rubin, but that doesn’t make it true. Thanks to reader dosido, we have someone besides our usual targets, Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon, to explain things to us peasants: His Most Excellent CEOness, Robert Kelly of BNY Mellon.
Paul Solman, the interviewer, gives Kelly the opportunity to explain why banks should be allowed to grow to gargantuan size. Kelly offers two reasons. He notes that many large US corporations need money in large amounts.
Many of them, say, want to raise money in China to be able to be more successful over the long term. Wouldn’t you rather that business go to American banks than to foreign banks?
This is a direct appeal to US chauvinism, particularly delightful because it comes from a Canadian: Kelly is from Nova Scotia and spent most of his career at Toronto Dominion Bank. Kelly doesn’t even try to explain why banks need to be big to make big loans. When banks make big loans, they lay them off on other banks, through syndications, or recently, by securitizing and selling them. One of the big problems of Lehman Brothers was its inability to lay off some of its more bubbly private equity and other loans.
For decades, large stock and bond transactions were syndicated among big underwriters, each taking a piece of the transaction and allocating it among their customers. The cover of the prospectus would list the lead and main underwriters, and in larger deals, more would be listed elsewhere. Similarly, groups of banks would get together to fund giant loans. For customers, the transaction is with one entity, and they don’t really care exactly who is providing the money.
I can’t think of any reason that one bank should make a specific loan, other than keeping all the fees, and making more money laying off the loan in a securitized package, and more money managing the securitized package of loans, and who knows, more money off the bankruptcy.
Then Kelly says that there are economies of scale for giant banks. Solman replies that economists like Simon Johnson say there are no economies of scale once a bank has reached $100 billion in assets. Kelly assures Solman that BNY Mellon was much better off than it would have been as a smaller institution.
Solman asks about the losses in 2008 of $1.5 billion. He might have added that Kelly’s bank wrote off $4.8bn in the third quarter of 2009 alone, trying to put its failed securities investments in some kind of order. 10-Q, third quarter 2009, page 5. Kelly explains how this blunder happened on his watch:
We have to do something with those deposits. And you could buy treasuries that are essentially riskless, or you could buy very high-quality securities, for example. The equities are fairly risky, so we don’t buy stocks. But we do buy bonds.
And we [sic] AAA-rated bonds, which turned — which turned which turned out to be not AAA. If we want to be kind about it, perhaps they were CCC.
Let’s run that through the Bizspeak Translator: We bought a bunch of toxic waste, but it’s really not our fault, those foul rating companies misled us.
Solman displays good form by not laughing out loud. This was a double win for him: Kelly failed to explain why banks need to grow to enormous size; and Solman points out that he failed at managing his bank’s principal job. Of course, Solman can’t spike the mike in celebration of his win. The conventions of business media require him to nod in acquiescence to whatever nonsense Kelly spouts. It has to be enough to let the emperor parade around, clothed only in his moth-eaten mythos (H/T reader knowbuddhau).




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Thank you once again masaccio for cutting through the fog of babbling bull shit that spews from the mouths of banksters.
doG help us, but the supposed “best and brightest” in banking are truly the idiots that walk amongst us.
It’s astonishing that you could lose that much money when your expertise is supposed to be investment advice.
Greed. Greed is the problem.
As long as any money still exists anywhere in the world, there will always be someone willing to step into the temporary vacuum resulting from a big bank failure and volunteer to be the new banker. It has always been thus, and always will be.
Negative consequences of a big bank failure would justifiably be borne by all those who took the risk of dealing with them without proper due diligence. That’s capitalism, baby, the GOOD kind of capitalism.
The real reason banks need to be gargantuan-sized is that squeezing a $100mil bonus for the CEO out of a smaller bank is much more difficult than squeezing it out of a big bank. Simple greed explains all in this case.
…those foul rating companies misled us.
well, that’s pretty much true, isn’t it?
Yeah, these guys are all alike. Eric Cartman with a death grip on the cookie jar.
I love his selling points:
1) Big US Banks are great at exporting American jobs to China.
virtues
2) Big US Banks are the only ones capable of efficiently allocating the nations capital into worthless toxic waste.
Ahhh, but what would have happened if someone else were running the show? Maybe instead of just losing ~10bn they would have lost eleventy bajillion dollars! That man should get a bonus bonus!
And for that half-assed defense of their ineptitude- despite employing an army of lawyers and risk managers golly somehow them slick talking bond dealers conned BNYM into buying a whole bunch of worthless crap- I think Kelley should get a bonus bonus bonus!
Businesses need big loans to invest in China? So they can build factories there, use Chinese labor, and then import the Chinese-made goods to America to help make the current accounts balance worse while increasing the profits for another transnational corporation?
Screw them all including whoever is behind the sabotage going on in Toyota plants at a very convenient time for American auto manufacturers.
That’s right, I said it. Shit like this doesn’t “just happen” in Japanese manufacturing. Americans might accept the fact that we could have a quality assurance fiasco like this, but something is definitely fishy with this whole thing. All it takes is someone screwing around with a couple of robots, they wouldn’t even have to pay that many people off.
Maybe, but you’d think if you were investing hundreds of millions, you’d want to look for yourself, particularly if investment management was your line of work.
masaccio
Off-topic but would call your attention to this for a new column or comment.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/16435/All_Hell_Could_Beak_Loose_in_Europe_This_Week;_CDS_Counter-Party_Risks_Again.html
Plausible deniablity… The criminal that run the country for their and thier’s alone benefit, cloak themselves in plausible deniablity. This is why Bernie Maddof mad-off with bazillions… this is why the 911 money-trail was never exposed… this why the Bankster and the bought of Regulators ignore fraud. The problem is not a lack of regulation or understanding of an increasingly global economy. The problem is criminals in our midst whom are NEVER HELD TO ACCOUNT! Heads need to roll
Yes, you could buy treasuries, if could manage to be content with a modest return. But a ‘modest return’ is not what these guys are after, so it won’t work for them.
As for the AAA-rated bonds?
I note with contempt and derision that Mr.
Oh, I’m Such A Genius of FinanceGutless Deep in Denial can’t bring himself to say publicly that the reason those bonds were rated AAA is because banks like his paid the ratings agencies to provide AAA ratings.Evidently, he doesn’t have the guts to be honest about a widely known fact.
And I note with contempt and derision that neither Chris Dodd, nor Barney Frank seem to be forcing events toward a state of transparency that would force this man (and his high flying pals) to confront the web of lies that protect both his ego and his wealth.
I wouldn’t trust this guy with a dime, myself; I’ve never found cowards to be all that trustworthy.
I understand that Kelly has to cling to this belief system, in order to justify his wealth and extravagance, but that failure of imagination; Kelly’s inability to see more broadly and accurately in view of all the information released about the Meltdown, is at this point a symptom of an odd mix of cowardice and arrogance. Kelly and his cohorts must be scared sh!tless at some level, as the nature of the house of cards they’ve created becomes weekly more obvious.
And as dosido pointed out, this has absolutely nothing to do with the US or patriotic motives. These bankers think they’ve outgrown nation states; our mortgages are basically the ‘commodities’ off which they make money, much as the old railroad barons made money off steel and rail lines.
We’re just one more commodity for them, as long as they can keep the myth in place. And since so many of our electeds are still captured, it must appear to them that they’re shoring up the cracks in the walls and the facade will hold.
I simply don’t think that things built on sand are sustainable.
But I’m sure he is too socialized within the banking system he’s been a part of, and too well compensated, to seriously question why the distant rumbling seems to be coming at increasing intervals.
Thank heavens for you, and Yves Smith, and Dylan Ratigan, (and DNI Dennis Blair) and everyone else who refuses to buy into the destructive mythology these bankers seem to think they can somehow sustain.
I really think at this point they’re all delusional.
And to me, that’s an act of cowardice after what we’ve all seen the past 18 months.
If these guys were REALLY smart, and actually had guts, they’d be the first people insist on reform. The fact that they aren’t shows they are still too arrogant and afraid to deal with the harsh realities that seem to be fairly obvious to the rest of us.
Sheesh, what a pack of weenies (!).
AT this point, I think it’s more fear than greed.
Any bank that either wants to fail or manages to find a good way to fail should be allowed the privilege. Free market, right? Either that or nationalize the bastards. Socialism, some call it. Sounds better with every passing day.
I don’t mind rich people, but man, when their greed starts showing — well, tax ‘em to death and then screw ‘em. Or maybe let them eat cake.
Capitalism is failing fast, folks. Best stand back, plant a garden, then avoid the dust implicit in the final crumble.
“The equities are fairly risky, so we don’t buy stocks. But we do buy bonds.
And we [sic] AAA-rated bonds, which turned — which turned which turned out to be not AAA. If we want to be kind about it, perhaps they were CCC.”
Uh huh. And what do you supposed would have happened if the guy who was in charge of the bond portfolio had come to them and said “look, there is a lot of toxic junk in these bond portfolios, and we and the clients whose portfolios we manage are ‘way, ‘way exposed.” Suppose he’d been telling them that for more than a year — what do you think BNY Mellon would have done?
They would have told him “STFU!!!!!! Don’t you know that if we know those assets aren’t good, then we have a fiduciary requirement to get our clients out of them? Don’t ever say that again!”
And if he persisted and said, “look, when the bubble starts to deflate, it’s going to become obvious and a lot of this AAA stuff we’ve bought (and packaged up and sold ourselves) is going to turn out to be junk, and there isn’t enough insurance money to cover everything that’s going to tank.” What do you think the bosses at BNY Mellon would have said?
They would have said “well, if that happens, everybody’s fucked. So at least we won’t be blamed. But as for you, just keep quiet and don’t rock the boat!”
And what would they have done if the head of that group said, “no, we’re lying to ourselves and we’re lying to our clients,” and kept bringing it back up? They would have suddenly made it in his favor to take early retirement.
And how do I know? Because the person who was head of their bond group and who warned them until they called him Cassandra and forced him out is my brother. In August 2006, he told me what was going to happen — that was when I first heard of Credit Default Swaps and the securitization of bubble mortgages. When I asked him what they said when he warned them, I got the “in that case, we’re all fucked” answer.
I’d love to see the BNY Mellon chief called to testify.
The Canadian Banks did sell their toxic assets, and are relatively unharmed.
Good analysis. I’d love to find the person who got this one right and ask a few public questions myself.
Perhaps your brother has other insights he would like to share? We’re listening…
And I’d love to see masaccio ask those questions.
Thank you, Ducktape1.