[Welcome John Perkins, and Host Marcy Wheeler.] [As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]
The title of John Perkins’ latest book, Hoodwinked: An Economic Hit Man Reveals Why the World Financial Markets Imploded–and What We Need to Do to Remake Them, comes from a conversation the author had with Panama’s populist head of government, Omar Torrijos, in the late 1970s. Perkins describes that he was trying to convince Panama to assume huge World Bank loans, which would bankrupt Panama, and thereby ensure that the US retained control over the Canal. But Torrijos wasn’t interested.
“I don’t need your damn money, Juanito.”
[snip]
He went on to tell me that his goal was to set his people free from “Yankee shackles” to make sure his country controlled the canal, and help Latin America liberate itself from the very thing I represented and he referred to as “predatory capitalism.”
“You know,” he added, “what I’m suggesting will ultimately benefit your children too.” He explained that the system I was promoting where a few exploited the many was doomed. “The same as the old Spanish Empire–it will implode.” He took a drag off his Cuban cigar and exhaled the smoke slowly, like a man blowing a kiss. “Unless you and I and all our friends fight the predatory capitalists,” he warned, “the global economy will go into shock.” He glanced across the water at the sandy beach and palm trees of Contadora and then back at me. “No permitas que te engañen,” he said, (“Don’t allow yourself to be hoodwinked”).
Perkins discussed his relationship with Torrijos in his two earlier books on the means by which the US has exercised power over the developing world, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man and The Secret American Empire. In both, he described Torrijos’ ill-fated attempt to free his country from taking on debt that the US would use to dominate Panama (Torrijos’ efforts may have led to his assassination). In this latest book, Perkins uses the incidence of the financial crash to demonstrate how Torrijos’ prediction has come true: the means by which corporations have ruled the world for decades is hurting the children not just of the developing world, but also the developed world, including the United States.
We have been hoodwinked.
Starting with the example of Iceland–what he calls the first “hit” on a developed country–Perkins explains how the process applied to developing nations like Panama has increasingly been applied in the developed world.
Iceland, along with the United States and much of the world, had suffered from a specific type of capitalism, a deviant that my business school professors had foreseen and railed against in the late 1960s.
[snip]
The guiding philosophy for this particular form of capitalism is an uncompromising belief in the privatization of resources, the granting of unfettered powers to corporate executives, and the encouragement of debt so extreme that it results in contemporary modes of enslavement–for countries and individuals alike. Based on the assumption that the CEOs running our most powerful corporations constitute a special class of royalty who, unlike normal people, do not need to be governed by regulations, it totally altered geopolitics. Now we have entered a time not unlike that when city-states were replaced by nations–except that today the nations have been usurped by giant corporations.
Much later in the book, Perkins describes how the nexus of this form of capitalism is losing its national–American–face.
For a while, a single country dominated: the United States. That is now ending. The planet’s geopolitics have changed. We have entered a time of realignment not unlike the one that occurred when city-states joined together to form nations. Except this time it is global; nations are becoming less relevant. The emerging rulers are not presidents, dictators, government officials, or politicians.
The rulers are corporate CEOs, members of the corporatocracy. Like huge clouds swirling the globe, their conglomerates reach every continent, country, and village. They are unrestricted by national borders or any particular sets of law. Although many are headquartered in the United States and call upon the U.S. military to protect their interests, they feel no sense of loyalty to any one country.
Perkins illustrates the progression from US-based contracting and extraction companies using debt to control developing nations to corporations using debt and other tools to control people. Perkins presents that progression by providing a list of the problems–the outsized role of CEOs, deregulation, fake accounting, and our hollowed out economy, followed by a list of solutions–using the power of consumer choice, fostering more productive models for capitalism, and New Age prescriptions like “honoring your passion.”
As with all his books, Perkins writes in a fluid anecdotal style, which makes the book an enjoyable read. But that same style prevents him, here, from focusing closely (either narratively or chronologically) on the precise circumstances that have brought about this crisis moment. Rather than discussing how the former CEO of a military contractor, Dick Cheney, schemed to bring the country and its contractors to war in an oil-rich nation and in the process bankrupt the country, Perkin’s chapter on our “militarized, paper economy” focuses on a prediction a colleague made 30 years ago and on the garbage we currently make. Rather than laying out clearly how the mortgage and credit card industries–backed before and still by the power and resources of the federal government–have decimated the American way of life, Perkins focuses chiefly on Ecuador’s historic plight, with just four pages applying that to the American experience. In his solutions section, Perkins offers some good, pointed solutions, but many of those, too, are situated historically rather than in the present. At that level then, this book merely lays the foundation for further work that must be done to expose the debt-based system by which the corporatocracy rules.
But this book (along with Perkins’ other work) does lay a necessary foundation. Perkins’ first book on these issues, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, provided an absolutely crucial missing piece to our understanding of globalization: the way debt was used to compromise the sovereignty of developing nations. In showing that the same process has been used to dismantle US sovereignty–to subject Americans (and people from other developed nations) to the rule of corporations–Hoodwinked shows how Torrijos’ prediction has come true. We have been hoodwinked by the corporations dominating the world.



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John, Welcome to the Lake.
Marcy, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Welcome John, thanks for joining us.
I want to thank you for writing this book and your two earlier ones on being an EHM.
Its great to be with you
John, thanks for joining FDL today.
Marcy, I appreciate you taking this on and inviting me to join you.
My pleasure.
Good afternoon John and welcome to FDL this afternoon.
I have not had an opportunity to read your book but have to say that this from Marcy’s intro:
comes as no surprise to I’d think anyone who paid attention to how the US has operated in Latin America over the years.
How do we rein in the multi-national corporations? We all hear about how they need to be competitive in the global market and how doggone it, we just have to suck it up and let the jobs go where labor is cheapest. Who is going to be around to purchase any goods and services anywhere in the world if the corporations are allowed to steal from everyone at all levels?
I found your first book fascinating and deeply troubling that our foreign policy in South America has lead to large resentment down there. It often catches Americans by surprise down there when visiting.
What’s your opinion on the White Houses’ response to Honduras?
I wanted to ask you about this passage in your book:
I think the really important part of that quote is that this stuff remains “legal” (at least to the extent that it falls under either US or international law).
At the same time, I think we need to lay out how these networks work, so people understand how this power, legally works.
And I am, still, struck by how this all came to a climax when Dick Cheney ascended to power. In so many ways he exemplifies so much of what you write about, from the large contractor to the brutal exercise of power to the embrace of a lifestyle dependent on extraction.
John includes a section on Honduras in this book–so it’s up to date to cover that coup.
As a technical note, there is a “Reply” button in the lower right of each comment. By pressing the “Reply” it will pre-fill the name and number of the comment(er) you are replying to and makes it easier for all to follow the conversation. (Note: if you’ve had to refresh your browser, you may have to wait for the page to totally complete the loading or the reply may not work correctly)
Thanks…
I think Dick Cheney is further proof that Public Office for some people is a revolving door.
Thank you, John, for not only joining us today, but for sticking your neck out and pulling back the veil with your books. I’ve recommended your first book hundreds of times as a necessary text, which when paired with Naomi Klein’s Shock Doctrine, make an essential curriculum to beginning a turn-around.
As a business major I am extremely concerned that while many of us can now see the toxic fruits of a long-rigged system, our business schools are continuing to pump out indoctrinated progeny, ready to carry on with predatory capitalism.
Do you have any suggestions on how we change this pipeline?
Welcome John. Still reading your very fascinating book. Have you been tracking the “reform” efforts in Congress, and do you seen anything approaching what you see as needed?
Here’s an excerpt:
The paper economy covers a lot of territory, all of which contributed to the meltdown: the gearing, capture, the exotic instruments, and securitization. I don’t want to downplay the role of debt but the financial industry basically blew itself up and it wasn’t debt but its political connections which saved it from its own self-created disasters.
We need to recognize that the market place is democratic. Refuse to buy from companies that are not committed to social and environmental responsibility and send them emails telling them so. We as consumers can have a huge impact
True. Thanks for adding that. I was trying to keep the write-up fairly simple.
We’ve focused closely here on political battles to prevent consumers from being forced into a captive consumer role–such as the health insurance reform would do (we pushed for a public option).
Given that the government is increasingly pushing such crony capitalist solutions to real problems, how do we get corporations from running our government?
I should add, too, that these fights seem to be preventing Congress from passing the Volcker reforms.
White House response to Honduras was terrible — but expected given that the coup was organized by Chiquita and Eric Holder, Obama’s Attorney General was once Chiquita’s lawyer.
It isn’t just business schools but economics departments are still dominated by what can only be called quacks.
I agree
Thanks “Wheel” it gives a new meaning to Banana Republic doesn’t it?
Have you see the Frontline World Story about how companies like GM are buying up Rain Forest in Brazil.
How come I’m not shocked that root of most of this is that Zelaya wanted to increase the Min Wage (not the sole point but one of the reasons). How come when Jean-Bertrand Aristide wants to raise the Min Wage, he gets ousted?
Strike Breaking in America? I see a common theme here…
Do you see a role for regulation passed by Congress, or do you put your faith entirely in grass roots revolt?
A reader emailed this question:
It’s a great question. The earthquake is a terrible disaster, but even after the immediate recovery it will either make things much worse or actually let them start to get better.
Love your work and causes John (current not former). Your books are a real eye-opener! Also, interested if you have written or spoken any on current events in Haiti and the region. Seems like there are many things going on aside from (or in connection with) 20k troops. Thanks for what you are doing! Joe
Yes, as I discuss in HOODWINKED we have to leave behind the predatory capitalism espoused by Milton Friedman which has guided US and G9 policies since 1980 and embrace a more environ and soc responsible form.
By way of partial response, from his chapter on “New Rules for Business and Government:”
I think all the media focus which might go away with our “liberal” media, places like RT and Democracy Now! will continue to follow the money and ask the questions that need to be asked, look at how the IMF retracted their plans after public outcry mainly from the internet.
I think one of the most important things we need to keep is Net Neutrality!
How much blame do you think the UK has for Iceland? It looks like they used it as an offshore adjunct to London and then when it went splat the UK demanded that Iceland pay off its banks, the ones that the UK government had refused to regulate effectively.
Only buy from corporations that commit to not running the govt and sent lots of emails to corp telling them this — also do everything you can to push for a reversal of the recent Supreme Court ruling.
No question that we will use Haiti’s tragedy as a way to can even greater control and another Lat Am military base — I’m thinking of going there in a few months to monitor the impacts of upcoming programs.
Some of the talk coming out of Davos wasn’t exactly positive…
Did Manuel Noreiga ever talk about his being a CIA agent or George Bush who was the head of the CIA at the time?
I agree — fight fight fight for net neutrality!
John as I mentioned earlier, I have not had an opportunity to read your book so forgive me if you cover this but what is your perspective on the so-called “invisible hand” with regards to the global economy (question triggered by this Floyd Norris column in today’s NY Times)
Aned, of course, we need those new regulations to be inforced.
But with people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in charge of the Financial Services Committees in Congress, the likelihood of real reform is zero.
Noriega has talked about it — and published in the book written about him with many interviews with him.
Have there been any shareholder revolts which you can recall which may have put a crimp in the efforts of EHM?
The UK certainly shoulders some blame, but the real culprits are Alcoa and the other aluminum companies that sent in their private EHMs
Yes, but consider who goes to Davos. Nothing positive is ever going to come from that group.
And if they didn’t kill it, Joe Lieberman and Bad Nelson would finish their work.
I’m hoping the FDIC gets to do its thing.
I remember when you went on Mark Thompson’s show on Sirius (with your first book) and frankly none the listeners were deeply shocked by how far down the rabbit hole goes. All you really have to do is look how we’ve treated Poor People in the country and how our politicians like to focus on the Middle Class and never mention Poor People like its a bad word.
John, thanks for joining FDL today, and for your work against the EHM. Wish we’d had (edit: all of) your books when we tried to shut down the IMF/WB ten years ago this April, but I’m grateful for them now.
If it would not be intrusive, might you comment on whether/how what you learned from your experience with the Shuar helped change your perspective on global capitalism’s deadly effects?
For the first 100 years that the US was a country, now corp could receive a charter unless it showed it served the public interest. After 10 years — on average — it had to renew that charter, We new new sets of regulations that assure that corps serve the public interest and not just their stockholders. Let’s fight for that. People, WE — you and — must do it!
Actually some positives voices were there, they just aren’t the majority, they get shouted down…
Ditto.
Including sending your earlier books and CDs as gifts.
‘Globalization’ seems to be driving urgent needs for corporate reform, and I thank you for making it all easy to follow.
Especially **love** the section on bogus accounting and how externalities are completely neglected in most current pricing structures.
—————-
Question: Do you see FCA (Full Cost Accounting) being raised more and more widely as a topic? Because I swear that it hardly ever turns up at Financial Times, only occasionally in the Economist articles that I still read, and in the NYT… seldom.
Do you see evidence that this type of accounting is being more widely embraced globally, with — I assume — EU in the lead?
So is the response to Citizens United one that should be aimed at political donations, or corporate personhood?
I saw that the Shuar and other indig people were being destroyed by “development” projects. Also the Shuar taught me that “the world is as we dream it ” and by changing the dream — our intent — and taking action on the new dream — we can change the world,
Wanted to say how shocked I was about aluminum with regards to the impact that industry had on Iceland; I had not read enough about the underlying causes of Iceland’s economic problems, believing them merely to be part of the larger global economic crisis.
I think what shocked me most was realizing how bloody close we are to these EHMs. At one point a senior executive I worked for at one Fortune 100 company left to take a position at Alcoa in a similar capacity. They’re right there among us.
Thanks for opening my eyes a little wider.
We — you and I — must push push push for FCA. It really is up to us to insist on change — to force it. It is how we got corp to clean up rivers, stop supporting apartheid in S Africa, etc etc. WE have power, but we must exercise it.
I often write about the failure of our elites: political, economic, academic, professional and their resulting delegitimization. I have written too how the only activity which they remain effective at is looting. There are many good ideas out there for how to fix our economic and financial problems, but there is no interest in our elites to do any of them. So in a situation where effective action must be taken and no effective action is being taken where do you see all this leading?
Agree–I was also unaware of ALCOA’s role in the Iceland crisis.
Alcoa is quite proud of the plants they built in Iceland… I had any idea of the overall impact but not that Iceland was on the hook for it.
Now that your eyes are open, open those of everyone you know. We must keep informing each other and ACTing!
The elites won’t take action because they are getting richer and richer off the status quo. We must be the ones to turn it around!
Of course, Alcoa is proud — they are cash cows for Alcoa — but the pasture is being destroyed and the pasture is Iceland.
You talk in your book about the Pentagon’s ballooning black budget ($50 billion–and I just saw an estimate that was several billion higher).
There are two things that–it seems to me–heightens this problem. We know that the Bush Admin, at least, would put through programs on the appropriations budget, but not get them approved by the Intell Committees. So these are blacker than they’re supposed to be by law.
But at the same time, we’re using contractors like Blackwater to give one more degree of plausible deniability for these ops. (Or contractors like AT&T, in the case of surveillance.)
How do we reign this in, particularly if this kind of raw power is one of the things the US is still serving corporations with?
The Elites who run are Corporations, Government, Press seem to have an attitude of I want to be rich and I don’t care how/maybe I prefer to hurt people getting rich attitude which they all deny publicly.
However a billions for Wars for oil not a cent for healthcare attitude suggests otherwise.
Can you explain why they have this worldview?
Thanks for your work in helping us all to more clearly see a nightmare and change our dreams accordingly. Me, I’m intending to live to see corporate capitalism shattered.
What I find surprising is all the people that know AT&T has been helping the NSA spy on Americans but they are so eager to stand in line for the Iphone 3GS and now the Ipad with AT&T 3G….
I have the sense that this is going to come via handheld devices and iPhones as people shop, where they can access information that provides comparative information while they are shopping.
Do you see any evidence that people within government — even people like the retired military commander (Norris?) — really grasp the paradigm of FCA accounting rules?
Is this a topic that you see coming up more frequently, as opposed to even a year ago?
You have an interesting chapter on China in this book, in which you describe some of the good things China has been able to do, but then describe being challenged about our system versus theirs. Having done business in China, I’m less optimistic about them than you but still awed by their ability to deal with their huge population. (My first trip there, my Chinese business colleague made a point of showing me that statue in the Bund on Shanghai and talking about how engineers make the decisions in China and how that makes for different kinds of decisions).
It seems like success or failure in the future is going to come down to how the pressure between us and China is resolved (and our mutual entanglement). Aside from being smart consumers on that front, too, any thoughts on how we can affect the resulution fo this tension?
Who is more powerful in terms of being able to change the world the CEO of GM in the 50′s when GM was at its peak or the CEO of GM or any American company CEO before the bank bailout who was paid way more money?
And the guy who got Congress to give him retroactive immunity is now in charge of the people’s car company, GM.
Are we still on?
We must be the ones to turn it around!
But we aren’t. In November, there will be a massacre of corporatist Democrats at the polls. They will be replaced not by progressives but by corporatist Republicans. Given the underlying weaknesses in the economy in terms of debt, foreclosures, mispriced assets, misallocated resources, and high unemployment, I see us going over the cliff into depression in 2011.
The same GM CEO who recently let its Chinese partner take majority ownership of their joint venture, and–I strongly suspect–plans on importing cars made in China to the US in the next several years?
You mean Ed Whitacre Jr?
But they didn’t appoint, GM brass did, right?
Because they are getting richer and more powerful off it.
Think EW and I are both on the same page that Ed Whitacre was “appointed” to the permanent slot at the top of GM in the same way that Cheney was “selected” to be the VP on the Bush/Cheney ticket.
As in, Whitacre took it and the board merely rubber stamped.
They being Obama’s auto team? Supposedly not, and supposedly they gave Henderson a year. But I’m pretty sure they gave him pretty big support. He’s gonna pay off their loan (before he imports the cars from China), so they’ll be off the hook for buying a car company, even if (as with the banks) it is too early to pay back the loan.
In the 70′s we toppled governments now Hugo seems to be spreading an anticapitalist revolution what kind of pressure are the banks, corporations and our government putting on him.
Are the Anti Commie groups the Moonies, Jon McCain and the Bush Family planning stuff or are they to involved in the failure of Iraq?
We the people claimed alot of power in the 50s — we have allowed the corps like GM to co-op that power in recent years, we have been lulled into complacency by American Idol, Super Bowls, etc. Let’s get off our butts!
Thats not power thats being owned:)
Hey, Brother John, do you remember falling for a Zen knock-knock joke in Seattle after CoaEHM came out? It was at Seattle’s UW Medical Center.
I’m stealing time from a cash-paying handyman job, plz pardon my brevity.
KNOCK-KNOCK
(who’s there?)
BUDDHA!
(buddha who?)
KNOW! BUDDHA U!
At which point you looked up from signing my copy, paused, and said, ruefully as hell, “I fell for it!” Remember?
If it wasn’t for your seeing of the Light, I might not see any Light at all.
I bow in your virtual direction (Coriolis correction requested; not responsible for lost or stolen salutations; this representation self-voids upon reading.)
Don’t know if my question got hidden as the site grew slow–
How can we add pressure to use the Chinese-US tensions as a lever to get out of, rather than further into–this kind of corrupt capitalism?
John – What are your ideas for fighting the power?
I think email campaigns are fine, but getting America to do wide ranging boycotts or strike is unlikely, many just don’t see what’s wrong and if they do, they feel powerless to do anything.
Personally, I thought that your explanation of how Jack Welch, who is publicly sanctified as a great CEO, basically laid off 1/4 of the GM workforce in the 1990s, along with turning GM from a manufacturing outfit into a seller of financial services.
That single anecdote is, in my mind, extremely powerful because that one person has been so ‘honored’ for what is — from a long term, sustainable perspective, utterly amoral conduct.
I really had not realized that GM went so far into financial services in just ONE decade (!).
And again, it was not clear to me whether GM adopted new accounting rules to help it make that change.
But once the inequalities become so stark, it is really, really going to need some ‘powerful dreaming’ to change things.
(The ‘dreaming’ is totally consistent with what I know of psych research, and I think also well explained in the anecdote about the neuroscientist talking about all the things that have to happen in the brain simply to pick up a glass of water ;-))
If the war in Iraq was for oil why didn’t American oil companies get all the oil contracts? I think I read France and Russia just got some oil contracts.
John, thank you for joining FDL for this chat. I see that Marcy focused a little on Iceland in the introduction and so have a few commenters. In kind of a corollary vein I was wondering if you could describe how what you see, observe and have written about pertains to the once ballyhooed Celtic Tiger economy of Ireland that has, shall we say, fallen a wee bit.
Our growing military presence in Haiti is a direct threat to Chavez and all the other 9 Lat leaders who are standing up to the coporatocracy! As are the 7 new military bases planned for Colombia.
Ah, now there’s an opportunity I had not spotted before!
I was in China a few months ago speaking to university students there and greatly impressed by their desire to become GREEN leaders. I’m hoping they — and a new wave of US students — will set up a strong competition for who will be the greenest. Let’s all encourage that!!
Oh, Ireland set itself up as a little America, making a huge profit off of being the US footprint in Europe. It’s one of the world’s top biggest exporters of software bc it is the Microsoft base in Europe. But it had the same kind of stupid housing bubble as we did, only worse.
(Neutron Jack was GE not GM)
Can US entrepreneurs do it on their own, though, without the kind of mercantilist investment that China makes available for its companies?
Pffftttt… If 80% of the US Senators and House members up for reelection went down to defeat, DC might start creaking in a different direction within 48 hours.
And if suddenly no one was showing up at GM car lots, or all of a sudden 60% of BofA’s customers pulled their money, well then you’d see change.
Since a friend of mine keeps threatening to move there, I thought I better ask…..
Arghhhh!
Thanks, dakine01
I dunno Chile just elected an elite again, got any opinions on Sebastian Pinera? I hear he’s quite connected…
Speaking of Latin America, I noted that one key thing shared among several of them is their attitude towards information. At least two of the countries treat information as a fundamental human right and have established laws making proprietary software illegal for use in government applications which face the public.
I also note that several countries which have solid but mixed economies were among those to have the earliest Freedom of Information laws — the Nordic states. They’re often demonized by predatory capitalists, but their people are healthy and happy.
This may be something we need to focus on more carefully: how do we move to a society in which information moves freely?
Cripes we can’t afford anymore wars our Elite Class is too inbred mentally to plan a war and to greedy to spend what it takes to win a war.
Troops lacking bullet proof vests, armored humvees and KBR being to cheap to pay Union Electricians to build showers for our troops still pisses me off.
seems slow again.
Yes. Nike, Microsoft, Google and so many more were started by an entrepreneurs. Let’s get the GREEN ones out there!
SOOOOOO true! Do it!
That’s why I support Move Your Money.info, BofA should loose market share, so should Chase which I’m sure most of the public doesn’t connect to JP Morgan.
Is there anything on a GM lot you MUST have?
I’m all for boycotts! Its getting the majority of the public to do it.
Jack Welch was the CEO of GE. GE ran into similar problems becoming a financial company. Cerberus bought Chrysler for its financial arm. In the runup to the bubble burst and the financial meltdown, many companies that the public thought of as straight manufacturing derived huge profits from financial arms they set up. These same arms created huge exposures for them when everything went south.
THe corporatocracy went to work big time in Chile and the progressives had grown complacent and discouraged. A real shame. Something similar to what’s happening right now in the US.
You and rOTL might want to read this article at WaPo about credit unions encouraging saving.
I think this is a pretty good move.
Make no mistake — the elites make $$$$$ off wars! We lose — they gain!
My neocon twin brother thinks Colombia is smart and savvy and just needs support from USA to reach its heights. Thoughts?
Right. We must recognize that for the FIRST time in history we are all — in every corener of the planet — communicating with eachother. We must keep the communications flowing!
D’oh! My question is, plz tell us about your understanding of the role of what Papa Bush, in 1988, famously called “the vision thing,” the power of propaganda, “manipulating the media narrative,” as Scott McClellan calls it, in making way for the hit jobs of the EHMs,
Or, to put it another way, is the proposed free trade deal with Colombia simply pay off for Uribe’s success at remaining the beachhead of corporatocracy in Latin American and a geographical check on Chavez?
Aha ;-))
So part of the work ahead lies in helping people **visualize** their own role in making change, eh?
Colombia and Uribe are US puppets. Also the 4th largest reciipents of US military aid in the world — after Iraq, Israel, and Egypt. Afghanistan is about to step in there too.
Well put — and now an all out atack on Ecuadorian President Correa has begun!
Your ability to state things with such clarity always makes me smile. thanks.
True but they gain more when we are at peace, the stockmarket is strong, the currency stable etc. Their economic policies seem intent on creating South America with the crime and economic inequality here.
The author has more experience (1971 to 1981 he worked for the international consulting firm of Chas T. Main) in this area of finance than I (1991-1998), but I do have a bit of albeit second and third hand knowledge of our international activities, and of the “legal” (define “legal” as something “unlikely to get caught and if caught unlikely to cost as much as is saved in taxes”) world of international finance (in my case as head of the US Tax Dept for Sun Life of Canada, followed by “financial engineering” for the Met for 2 years (noting that the MET and Sun Life play an extremely clean game – but they do get interesting offers).
Placing economists at private companies in order to increase the debt of foreign countries is not an NSA job – and control/influencing of foreign countries and their corporations is CIA. I understand and agree that World Bank and IMF loans have done harm. And if true that forgiving Third World debt requires them to privatize their health, education, electric, water and other public services, discontinue subsidies and trade restrictions that support local business, and accept the continued direct (and indirect via trade barriers) subsidization of certain G8 businesses by the US and other G8 countries, then that is a continuation of Dulles/Ike CIA objective of putting security of American companies as equivalent to security of America (actually this attitude was a necessity since other countries – even close Allies – view their own countries the same way). But I do not know if the assertion is true or false.
This book “Hoodwinked” focuses on “predatory capitalism” and again I agree with his central thought. But the idea that that the IMF and World Banks are trying to keep people in poverty lacks logic and truth – I know folks in both organizations – and they do their best to help. CIA influencing the World Bank and IMF is possible and likely – but the loans on offer start out as ways to help people. The CIA has not done the type of “wet-work” actions described – but it has allowed others whom it could have stopped do those actions – but Perkins assumes his sources (Noriega) give him truth and from what little I have heard, they do not.
There is a book to be written about how the rich control governments and avoid taxes (avoid taxes already has many books but the international rules used by the Billion + folks could be explored), and how nation states are being replaced by uncontrolled international companies. This book was an interesting read – but I do not believe its assertions as to intent of others are proven, even as I agree with its analysis of the current situation.
hello
Can you talk about some of the legal challenges Latin Americans are taking against US companies you discuss in the book?
Plus I’m sure the CIA wants a cut of the pro government right wing drug gang’s coke.
Always pleased to be reminded that our monetary support of Israel helps them give health care to their citizens. Wish we had someone sending us support!
Yes, if we can’t visualize what the future should look like for ourselves and others, we can’t begin to articulate it.
If we can’t articulate it, we can’t build the steps to get there.
This is why I worry about the lack of change in the education pipeline; as long as the education system remains unchanged, teaching (indoctrinating) in the corporatists’ world view, we cannot expect children to emerge as adults prepared to build an alternate and better future.
How do we stop the money train to Afghanistan?
We’ve spent BILLIONS rebuilding the Middle East when our infrastructure has fallen into Class D status if not worst in some cases/areas.
This “Jobs” bill will be a disappointment if not 100% focused on infrastructure and renewable technologies IMHO. If not just give all Americans $10,000 and that would stimulate the Economy and more than likely much cheaper….
The scheming that has been going on around Chavez for years is pretty transparent–I think it’s the one place where all of this is most plan, most exposed.
And you add in the Chiquita case that John referenced earlier–in which Chiquita was not only funding right wing militias for protection, but reportedly bringing their coke back on the banana freighers. Chiquita got off, at least partly, because Michael Chertoff had reportedly told them if they cooperated on counter-terrorism issues, they could go free.
So if you’re a big banana company, you can get off for supporting terrorism. But if you’re a Muslim who donated money believing your were engaging in charity, you go to jail forever.
That’s what I’m saying, the power of the shared narrative with which we re-present our respective idiosyncratic takes on reality, that has been used to jack us into this Waste Land, if we turn it around, can be used to see us through this man-made hell into a more perfect Union.
theere are many good people and well intended at the World Bank, IMF, who know little abot what is really going on there, but at the top they are puppets of the big corporations, essentially vehicles for EHMs to use for exploiting countries.
This is a long discussion but to summarize the $27 billion case against Chevron/Texaco is monumental — and probably also one of the reasons an all out character assassination has just be launched against Ecuador and its prsident, Correa.
So can we go back to that passage on conspiracy I quoted from way back at the beginning of this thread?
At what point do those puppets become knowledgeable about the whole EHM/intent to dominate thing?
You knew what you were doing–up to a point–but how many of the people you dealt with did? Did the engineers doing technical work?
And to what degree is the conventional wisdom–the apparently blindness from otherwise intelligent people that, for example, teh housing bubble was a house of cards–what keeps the elite on this path?
I love bananas — every day — but will not buy Chiquita or Dole. Once in a while Whole foods has organic ones from the ag school in Cent Am.I buy as many as I can!!!
Oh, BTW Brother John, no worries if you don’t remember meeting a Zen poet on the road, that’s the way it should be.
Because if it succeeds it’ll start more of the same? It’ll establish the legal precedent? Because it’ll show that corporations can be held liable? Or just because of the $$?
In my experience a lot of people in the trenches do NOT know, do not even see that they are in the trenches. Shame on them and us for not knowing. Odd that a person with an MBA or PhD can be less informed than an illiterate peasant in Bolivia. Odd but true. We must change that. It is why we are on this blog, why I write books. WE must turn it around, educate our friends an neighbors.
Fortunately I meeet a few Zen poets on the road — and I do remember you, I think.
One more question emailed from a reader:
Once upon a time I worked for a Fortune 100 company. It seemed like it was making progress toward become a greener organization, but every time the leadership made moves in that direction, the greener guys got forced out of the way.
The board made noises about shareholders and returns and so on, all the predictable crap generated by analysts being used to excuse their actions. But that’s how it happens, how they operate. They knocked off the guys who were making decisions which ran counter to more and deeper profits; they knocked them off even faster if they were making decisions to the benefit of employees and not shareholders (among which some of the biggest individual shareholders were board members).
As Ian Fleming wrote in Goldfinger, “Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.” The corporate boards of U.S. corporations are writing the playbooks, and the IMF is following their scripts.
I can’t help but wonder about some of the other casualties I met along the way at that Fortune 100 company. Like the guy who was asked how he was going to differentiate himself from a notebook of 60 other people; at the time I simply thought of him as one among a sheaf of potential corporate leaders, but knowing what I know now, I know he was being “bred” to be an EHM, and he was terminated because he didn’t get it, didn’t grok that his role was to be discreet and do what it took to win-win-win profits.
You buy from Whole Foods after what the CEO said about EFCA and Health Care Reform?
I thought you would be the first to boycott his stores (I kid because I care) – :)
Is it possible they actually do not know……or that they are being paid well and don’t want to know. I think that is more likely.
The lawyers on that case have worked dilignetly without pay for about 15 years. They hope to make some very good $ when they win — not because they are in it for the $ but because they want to start a snow ball rolling — if they make $ then other lawyers will file cases against oil companies in Iraq, Congo, Indonesia. . .
It was a long process. Too much to summarize here but the story is in HOODWINKED.
Yes, when you are paid so well, it is easy to turn a blind eye. The HR folks at NIKE and Halliburton make it easy to not know!
Speaking as a former engineer, the engineers likely know what the purpose of the project – economic dependecy or devastation – is. To become an engineer, youhave to develop a rather ruthlessly objective habit of mind which enables one to cut through the bullshit and to play chess out to twenty or more moves in advance. SOme of the best lawyers, FWIW, are former engineers precisely because of that objective, analytical habit of mind.
But, these engineers continue to do the work for two reasons: you become an engineer because you want to build* and you can either build the project or go home, and second, they have student loans, mortgages, and kids’ braces to pay for.
* OR, as Tom Wolfe’s book said: “no bucks, no Buck Rogers”.
In interrupted before you could answer about Ireland.
But for a long time I believed that the EU might be able to foster a more responsible kind of capitalism, both with more controls on corporations and with a better balance of priorities.
But with the Greek crisis challenging the union, what direction do you think the EU will head?
NO one is perfect, but Whole Foods really opened the door to organics and has forced Publix and many other chains to step up to the organics plate. We need to encorage that and at the same time demand that they change their attidues in the areas you point to.
Interested readers could find a quick, easy video clip about the ‘externality’ of oil pollution — and Trudie Styler, who you introduce in the chapter on Fake Accounting — in a very unexpected place; a new yoga DVD by Trudie Styler.
The DVD includes an interview with Styler, including some video shot in Ecuador that show kids pulling sticks covered with toxic oil ooze. It’s interesting how information can flow from completely unexpected places; your book and a yoga DVD converge to mention the problems with Ecuador’s environment.
Some of the DVD profits are to be sent to the communities in Ecuador hit by toxic externalities from Texaco (now Chevron).
So, completely unexpectedly, many more people who may not have cared two hoots about Ecuador will now have pictures of kids playing in oil ooze, and may not simply believe whatever corporatist-government hysteria is blathered about Correa (not Chavez, as I first typed).
I expect Frank McGaffney would blow an artery should it happen that a bunch of middle-aged yoga moms don’t believe the neocon nonsense because they’ve seen the damage of toxic wastes on a yoga DVD.
I think that may almost qualify an a ‘black swan’ — totally unexpected information from a completely unforeseen source.
Or, the bright side of globalisation?
Yes, student loans are shackles — and they are intended to perform that function. Fight them.
Great point. Go Trudie!!
The EU is facing a huge challenge. Not sure what turn it will take but that turn will tell us a great deal about the future of globalization.
What was question RE Ireland. sorry i missed it.
From 83, above:
Either a lull in the flow of info — or the NSA listener got mesmerized. . .
John in living color on RT – http://www.youtube.com/user/russiatoday?blend=1&ob=4&rclk=cti#p/search/1/MPjMUg9bt_I
Link often…
I just wanna jump in to say that there is enough brain power on this blog to solve all the World’s problems.
And that’s no joke !
Ah yes, I have to say that i like to talk from personal experience, not conjecture. I spent time in Iceland in 2009 and feel I understand it quite well, but do not have that experience in Ireland. Please buy me a ticked and I’ll be glad to learn and comment.
Well, listening to German radio all I’ve heard in their news for weeks on end has been about the political back and forth over “Steuerentlastungen”, which word means “tax cuts” or “tax relief”. That’s what their governing coalition is pushing as the formula for economic recovery, and the local governments and people are pushing back bitching about the services they’ll have to cut to balance out after the tax cuts.
So, one can see the dispositions of who’s in charge in Europe….
I’m totally with you on that whole ‘Go Trudie’ cheer ;-))
(For those who don’t know, she’s Sting’s wife, and there’s a great anecdote with her comments over dinner in the chapter about Fake Accounting. Clearly, Sting and Styler grasp the problems with ‘externalities’ and bogus book keeping.)
Only 1st nation in the world that requires students to go broke to get an education and allows hundreds of people to die because a few morons want to keep the Status Que.
Jessie Jackson had a campaign to re-tool the Student Loan System but it seems to not have gotten any traction.
Maybe that’s because the “liberal” media has told America Jessie is a non-factor in any social debate.
But brain power is not enough — we need heart, passion, action. People: you — we — must ACT. Take to the streets!!
I have to laugh…..you are one of the fastest responders I’ve read on one of these book salons…..I think people are thinking (and thinking of how to ask an intelligent question) and can’t always keep up with your speed. You are cool!
No, the server squirrels must be tired today. Server seems slowish.
I think bmaz, who asked the question, was tweaking me as much as anything else. It seems to me Iceland is a much more graphic example. Though as I said, between Greece and some of the other debt burdens of the EU, I’m not sure a bigger issue isn’t coming.
I’m not sure which is more dysfunctional. The nascent EU govt. Or our own country, particularly hte Senate. Though of course our Senate is dysfunctional precisely because so much money has been invested in making it so.
Sting told me over dinner one night “I always wondered why countries with so many resources were so poor. ‘Confessions’ gave me the answer.”
You mean the tax cuts that most of the public, including the Free Democrats and Green Party don’t want? But Merkel wants to push it through anyway despite her popularity numbers falling?
Sounds like Obama and the Senate Health Care Bill…
I’m a slow typist, my answers come from the heart. . .
Even given all our jokes about our NSA friends, yeah, I think this one today is due to the server squirrels. Unless maybe the snow in DC is slowing down the NSA work.
As we come to the end of this Book Salon,
John, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending your afternoon with us discussing your new book and economics.
Marcy, Thank you very much for Hosting this lively Book Salon.
Everyone, if you haven’t bought John’s book yet, here is a link.
Thanks all.
Actually, click on over to Financial Times today — I think the mention of Merkel bracing herself for pushback because the German gov’t is about to buy some stolen Swiss bank data, in order to hunt down tax cheats, may still be up.
(I only glanced at it, so I hope that I am informing you correctly. Made me smile just to think of it, though. And another country (UK?) also lining up to pay for the stolen files, as a means to hunt down tax cheats.)
True and sad — our congress is run by the big corps — and their 35,000 lobbyists in Wash DC.
BUT, the corps can not exist if we do not buy from them!!! Ah hah, that is power. Yours and mine!
Thanks, John, for sharing time with us…..and information. Thanks EW for hosting this interesting and informative discussion.
Thanks to all of you.
Pls catch me at http://www.johnperkins.org
twitter me at economic_hitman.
Let’s change the WORLD!
As I said, John’s book is very readable–and it’s a great way to apply what he talked about in Confessions to what we’ve just been through. So as Bev says, here’s the link.
Thanks John, Sunshine is the best disinfectant
Wow. What a wonderful ‘Sting’ story.
He’s clearly a smart guy.
I admit that when I first read EHM, it connected for me a lot of bits of conversation and quiet exchanges that hadn’t made sense to me previously.
EHM was, for me, like a huge giant magnet that collected all those little metal filings lingering about my brain and whomp! they all aligned in a fashion that was at once both horrifying and … well, kind of that odd sense of relief and almost euphoria that happens when you finally see the puzzle all in one big picture.
Your subsequent books have been equally wonderful and useful for me. (And I’ve had great feedback and thanks from those who received them as gifts, so it all kind of keeps cycling in odd ways.)
Thanks for another great Book Salon, Bev.
Thanks to emptywheel for hosting.
And thanks much to John for being here and for blazing the trail with his books.
Please buy them and spread them around, Firepups; they explain how we got into this mess, and the latest one, Hoodwinked, helps us begin to find ways out. It’s a start, more than we’ve had for the last decade.
Jim White’s diary is upstairs!
Preparing For Surge, US Plays Shell Game With Prisons in Afghanistan
Thanks much to EW, FDL, and John Perkins!
This was a treat.
The pushback she’s bracing for on that count is from the Swiss; the government is largely for it, though she let some of her ministers be out in front of that question until it was clear she could go ahead with it and not get her head handed to her domestically. She took the decision to go ahead around last Tuesday or so.
One has to remember that the theft of that bank data is a crime in Switzerland; German media are playing this as a repeat of the Liechtenstein tax avoidance scheme which came to the German tax authorities’ attention through a dime-dropper a couple years ago, and which sent more than a couple high-level people (CEO class) to jail. They have a wonderful word in German for them: “Steuersuender” – tax sinners.
But the pushback she’s really worried about (the bank data thing was all high drama kabuki) is over all the local services cuts that would have to be made to support the tax cuts. The media have not been shy about reporting “this theater or that museum shut down because of tax cuts cutting budgets”.
HA! But of course, how silly of me. Who could forget the Zen Inquisition? (No koan intended.)
Well, how very intriguing.
Seems like Merkel’s decision boils down to: do I shut down public services, or pay (to get stolen goods that will then enable Germany) to go after the a$$holes who have been treating us all like dirt?
Personally, I wouldn’t find that a tough call.
Looks like Merkel chose the public over the oligarchs.
Good on her ;-))
No, the two are independent issues. I don’t even think they were being sold along the lines you posited.
The tax cuts as a program are being rammed through – or at least they’re trying. The buying stolen bank data thing was a no-brainer; from a rulership perspective you give it as much thought as does a prosecutor deciding to immunize a snitch. The price (a couple million euros, apparently) was put out there to heighten the drama (but Demi Moore and Robert Redford made that movie years ago….). The point of the drama was to push the populace further down the road of getting used to the government having more access to data the people are used to having off-limits to government intrusion.
That may be the thing that’s not getting talked about on a large scale outside of Germany but might be inside Germany. I watch DW everyday so I know pretty much where at least the English speaking media in Germany is on these and other topics that only seem not to have a direct connection to the United States.
So you think the pay off for sensitive banking information is a ruse for the Government thinking its okay to buy general information on its citizens?
I don’t think so, I honestly think the people are not fans of the rich in Germany especially if they are avoiding paying their fair share of taxes.
Which I believe runs right into the reasons why they don’t support a tax cut because they see a direct relation to social services. Unlike much of the AstroTurf Tea Bagger movement which say things like “keep your hands off my medicare” but your docked out of your paycheck for it and is a Government run program – A nonsensical argument
quite an enlightening thread and sorry I missed it, tom hartmann rails against the american policy of lending into bankruptcy too
back to read the comments
Nooo. You’re not getting my point.
The EU and the Germans have had for many years pretty strong privacy protections built into their laws. Since 9/11, the German cops (of all flavors) have been pounding on trying to get through those privacy protections and getting the laws changed. Remotely implanting keystroke-logging programs and spoofing passwords on computers inside peoples’ houses so as to find out what they were writing and with whom was a big topic a year or two ago, and the cops have pretty much gotten their way on that.
So, what I’m saying is that the government is using that German public antipathy toward (a) rich people and (b) people who cheat on their taxes to support their drive to bulldoze more privacy protections. “IF we can get this confidential bank information, even if we pay a criminal for it, then we can get some more tax evaders and get you to cheer.” What this does is justify the use of criminal snitches, justify paying people to inform (informers and informing being a sore, sore subject, particularly in the former DDR, even 20 years after unification), justify further government delving into people’s private spheres, all this justification coming in a sugar-coated package.
The problem, as we all know, is that once the line is crossed, it is obliterated and never rebuilt. Their government is trying to get the populace to willingly, even gladly, embrace that.
FWIW, IMHO DW gives a happy, happy, joy, joy version of events. Their MSM – I follow ARD, FAZ and Suddeutsche Zeitung – is a little less sugar-coated, though their reporting standards and libel laws make them cautious to a fault. They get it right and they get it fast, but they don;t always get the really dirty until further down the road when they can better confirm it. I routinely get stories – particularly on events out of Afghanistan – days before it hits a US outlet. Those days, I believe, are devoted to US editors pre-digesting and removing the bitter from the news so it is either meaningless to the populace here, or reduced to jingoism.
Sorry– I’m joining late. I’d like to suggest, as a good companion piece to this discussion, Joseph Stiglitz’ book Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy, the subject of an FDL Book Salon a few weeks ago (see list of “Related posts” at the end of the introduction to the Salon up top). Stiglitz was also interviewed by Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch, about this book on CSPAN today in the “Afterwords” series.
Bob in AZ