Comments on: Late Night: Remind Me Who The “Barbarians” at the Gate Are Again? http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 06:02:53 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: robspierre http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2078229 robspierre Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:19:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2078229 Please don't refer to barbarians at the gate in a pejorative sense. As a trained medieval history scholar, I would argue that the barbarians were the solution to an earlier fat-cat problem. The German barbarians were greeted as liberators by the suffering workers and tax-payers of the Roman Empire. Not so much by the banksters and aristocrats inside "the gates". The Germans were honest, down-to-earth looters who preyed on the big estates, the wealthy temples, and the palaces of financiers and tax-farmers. Not perfect perhaps. But pretty darn good by coparison. So now that Wall Street has had its fling, I say, let the real, honest, old-fashioned kind of looting begin! To the gated communities! Please don’t refer to barbarians at the gate in a pejorative sense. As a trained medieval history scholar, I would argue that the barbarians were the solution to an earlier fat-cat problem.

The German barbarians were greeted as liberators by the suffering workers and tax-payers of the Roman Empire. Not so much by the banksters and aristocrats inside “the gates”. The Germans were honest, down-to-earth looters who preyed on the big estates, the wealthy temples, and the palaces of financiers and tax-farmers. Not perfect perhaps. But pretty darn good by coparison.

So now that Wall Street has had its fling, I say, let the real, honest, old-fashioned kind of looting begin! To the gated communities!

]]> By: transparait http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2078077 transparait Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:53:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2078077 Found one, looks like. More, please, Al. "Sen. Al Franken ripped into White House senior adviser David Axelrod this week during a tense, closed-door session with Senate Democrats." http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/32561.html Found one, looks like. More, please, Al.

“Sen. Al Franken ripped into White House senior adviser David Axelrod this week during a tense, closed-door session with Senate Democrats.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/32561.html

]]> By: transparait http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077950 transparait Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:16:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077950 Franken also voted for the senate health insurance CEO golden parachute funding requirement that Obama wanted all along bill. Find some balls, Al. Franken also voted for the senate health insurance CEO golden parachute funding requirement that Obama wanted all along bill.

Find some balls, Al.

]]> By: Suzanne http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077926 Suzanne Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:02:01 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077926 aardvark -- this is probably where that came from. aardvark — this is probably where that came from.

]]> By: aardvark http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077874 aardvark Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:38:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077874 Where in the world do you get the idea that in any way I have tried to shame you? Please, I would really like to understand how you can construe anything I have said as trying to shame you. Shame is a powerful word. Where in the world do you get the idea that in any way I have tried to shame you? Please, I would really like to understand how you can construe anything I have said as trying to shame you. Shame is a powerful word.

]]> By: Kelly Canfield http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077853 Kelly Canfield Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:27:44 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077853 That's a fine tribute on your part. And I'm glad you have done so. However, I shall not be shamed by you. In the least. Your experience is yours, my experience is mine. That’s a fine tribute on your part. And I’m glad you have done so.

However, I shall not be shamed by you. In the least.

Your experience is yours, my experience is mine.

]]> By: Suzanne http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077845 Suzanne Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:24:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077845 hey aardvak -- folks are upstairs on the late late nite thread now hey aardvak — folks are upstairs on the late late nite thread now

]]> By: aardvark http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077835 aardvark Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:19:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077835 Thought about this for a bit, and I want to know, Kelly, how you have put your butt out there on the line for gay and lesbian rights, as well as abortion rights as I have? I think that is a fair and reasonable question, given you snipes at me. Thought about this for a bit, and I want to know, Kelly, how you have put your butt out there on the line for gay and lesbian rights, as well as abortion rights as I have? I think that is a fair and reasonable question, given you snipes at me.

]]> By: Cujo359 http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077816 Cujo359 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:07:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077816 In order: 1. Agreed. Unfortunately, they're the wars we're in at the moment. They occupy a substantial portion of the Army and the Marines. That's a problem that's above Gates' level. 2. No one's saying no, either. Expecting a department head to do anything but ask for the Moon when he can get it is like asking for a unicorn on your birthday. What's really needed is for someone above his level to say "Your budget's going to be cut by XX percent by FY 2014. Here are our defense concerns. Figure out how to do this." 3. Another problem that, practically speaking, is above his level. Congress has to want to change things, and so does the President. Neither seems willing, since it's part of what keeps their gravy trains going. 4. Yes, this makes no sense to me. I suspect part of the issue is Congress, but in this case I don't see why that is a problem. BMD isn't that important a program yet. 5. We wouldn't if we had a sane procurement system. We're flying thirty year old tactical aircraft. Sooner or later, age alone is going to be a problem, even if they're not obsolete. Gates could help this by recommending changes, but beyond that I'm not sure what he can do. And the F-35 probably does have a big constituency in Congress. The rot in the military industrial complex is pretty deep. It really is going to take determined effort, not to mention some sacrifice by politicians, to change that. 6. I've seen no such thing. What little I've read indicates that's either going to stay the same or get bigger, depending on what we're actually talking about... In order:

1. Agreed. Unfortunately, they’re the wars we’re in at the moment. They occupy a substantial portion of the Army and the Marines. That’s a problem that’s above Gates’ level.

2. No one’s saying no, either. Expecting a department head to do anything but ask for the Moon when he can get it is like asking for a unicorn on your birthday. What’s really needed is for someone above his level to say “Your budget’s going to be cut by XX percent by FY 2014. Here are our defense concerns. Figure out how to do this.”

3. Another problem that, practically speaking, is above his level. Congress has to want to change things, and so does the President. Neither seems willing, since it’s part of what keeps their gravy trains going.

4. Yes, this makes no sense to me. I suspect part of the issue is Congress, but in this case I don’t see why that is a problem. BMD isn’t that important a program yet.

5. We wouldn’t if we had a sane procurement system. We’re flying thirty year old tactical aircraft. Sooner or later, age alone is going to be a problem, even if they’re not obsolete. Gates could help this by recommending changes, but beyond that I’m not sure what he can do. And the F-35 probably does have a big constituency in Congress.

The rot in the military industrial complex is pretty deep. It really is going to take determined effort, not to mention some sacrifice by politicians, to change that.

6. I’ve seen no such thing. What little I’ve read indicates that’s either going to stay the same or get bigger, depending on what we’re actually talking about…

]]> By: aardvark http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/04/late-night-remind-me-who-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-are-again/#comment-2077808 aardvark Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:03:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/?p=65167#comment-2077808 Well, Kelly, if that was a sort-of apology to me, I will accept it. My best friend in high school, one of the toughest men I have ever known, was gay. He was a small college all American offensive tackle. My oldest son, soon to be seventeen was named after him. He died of AIDs, but he live long enough that I have a picture of him and my oldest as a one year-old sitting on his lap. Well, Kelly, if that was a sort-of apology to me, I will accept it. My best friend in high school, one of the toughest men I have ever known, was gay. He was a small college all American offensive tackle. My oldest son, soon to be seventeen was named after him. He died of AIDs, but he live long enough that I have a picture of him and my oldest as a one year-old sitting on his lap.

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