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Graphic by Superpoop
Kos summarizes the findings of the poll he commissioned on the Republican base:
Their base are conspiracy mongers who don’t believe Obama was born in the United States, that he is the second coming of Lenin, and that he is racist against white people. They already want to impeach him despite the glaringly obvious lack of high crimes or misdemeanors.
Republicans – and most of the media – act as if these anti-science, homophobic paranoids are perfectly reasonable people whose well-developed ideas should be respected and carefully listened to. At worst, they might consider them lovably cantankerous, like an eccentric uncle who blurts out wacky unpredictable things.
Meanwhile, Obama and the Democrats – and most of the media – act as if their base are unclean, raving lunatics whose nonsensical fringe notions must be watered down or repudiated so they don’t scare the rest of America away. Instead of an eccentric uncle, we’re treated more like a deformed freak who has to be kept chained in the basement so the neighbors won’t see.
Okay, I understand that the Republicans should listen to their base because, well, they’re their base and they can’t win without them. Plus they’re probably a little scared of them – I know I would be.
But if only one political party’s base gets to be taken seriously, does it really have to be the one that parades around with pictures of the President Of The United States dressed as a witch doctor? When did crazy become sane and sane become crazy?
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their base are unclean, raving lunatics whose nonsensical fringe notions must be watered down or repudiated so they don’t scare the rest of America away
You are correct on the right and its base and the above is correct on the left and its base.
Oh Eli… right out of the box.
I am so sorry.
I’m thrilled to report that the Tennessee Speaker of the Senate, Ron Ramsey, is a birther. Apparently we get another Scopes trial when he gets elected governor later this year.
November 19, 2000 at the Brooks Brothers Revolution, subsequently affirmed by SCOTUS.
The day the Supreme Court ruled on Bush v. Gore.
Hard to tell, but I think it was around the time teh Clenis was killing Vince Foster.
Welcome to the Lake. Perhaps you need a dip to clean up a bit.
There’s one more thing, too, Eli: We, the Democratic base, are always asked, “well, where are you going to go?” when we get down to the lesser-of-two-evils point in the voting booth. But you never hear the talibangelicals asked that question. Who are they gonna vote for, if they don’t get abortion made illegal and premarital sex outlawed? Democrats?
It doesn’t usually come up…
Welcome to the Lake. Perhaps you need a dip…
hey, goddammit, I swim in that thing….
“Plus they’re probably a little scared of them”
And the democrats are not scared of the left? Nothing like a good pointed question to frighten the powerful.
Such as: “What happened to HCR single payer?” or
“Why no torture prosecutions”? and
“How can you prosecute crime if you always look forward and not back?”
Not particularly, no. I sure do wish they were.
This is true, but it is also a distraction. The elephant in the room is the corporate takeover of the US. With either party, multi-national (erstwhile American) corporations do their bidding and have their way over the citizenry.
The cure is: Public financing of elections.
The Democratic party is only halfway corrupt. The R Party is entirely corrupt. The two together are entirely corrupt.
Nationally, I’d argue it was November 11, 1979.
Out here in CA the day Reagan was voted in as Governor.
Those are the dates our species degeneration was hastened in a quantum manner.
Everyone should read the link on this post the GOPers are even stranger than even I thought they were.
Now THAT was effin funny . . . *G*
Although, the ‘. . . right out of the box . . ‘ was spot on spittle drippin hilarious.
*G*
No no no flee dip
Hey Eli! A nutshell for the nutcases!!
As went California, so went the nation. I believe you win the prize. Although the day Richard Nixon was elected to Congress could also qualify.
This is how Eli deserves to be treated.
Thanks I needed that suggestion.
In Illinois Primary we have to declare on whether we want a Dem or Repub. ballot in order to vote. Since I wanted to vote for one of the two Sheriff candidates I had to take a Repub. ballot.
When I got to the point where the ballot was read it said I did not vote for all candidates. I told the Election Judge that was correct that I only voted for one candidate of all the Repubs. She said “hit the button for verification.” I did and walked out. I can imagine the conversation after I left.
Does any other state have this same rule about declaring your party preference?
This dip in the lake helped clean off the bad taste of Ill. voting procedures.
As it happens, I actually am a deformed freak who has to be kept chained in the basement so the neighbors won’t see.
And proud of it.
Hoping to be a Rethug presidential candidate someday. It’s a no-brainer.
I’m a wondering the same thing, Eli, particularly in Israel these days…!
Exactly. And look at Cenk Ugyur’s contribution a few down the page, where he rails against “clowns and madmen” on the right and left. As I wrote there, bullshit. This false equivalency is straight out of the corporate media playbook, and it’s complete bullshit. You can disagree with the far left (like myself), but you can’t argue that they’re batshit crazy and divorced from reality.
signed, punk ass draft dodging Georgia Senator Chambliss
Yup Larue is the Father of all the Party of the Corporations/NO. He destroyed California’s social services, schools, roads and on and on and ON. He was nothing but a front man right from the beginning and we all know it!!
No no no flee dip
well, if that’s what it takes for the troll to buzz off….
yup I’M not a crook..
We democrats, left or not, don’t apply pressure; why would anyone pay attention to us? If impeachment is discussed, we bare some of the responsibility. We dislikeed Clinton and didn’t really object too much. Now we have a guy, Obama, who is to the right of Clinton and suddenly we care. Too late.
How did he beat Max Cleland again…? ;-)
This is what I have to say about the two main parties:
The Democrats used to spend your money, but they didn’t tell you how to live.
The Republicans used to let you keep your money, but you had to follow their rules.
They both had it half right, and they both picked the wrong half.
That is a poll of all voters who identify Republican, a sample of perhaps 20% of the US population.
Yes you can!! Oh, sorry, that’s contradiction.
Argument is just down the hall ;).
Repub motto – “fuck it – fight dirty.”
You mean Tricky Dickie From Yorba Linda I Heart Joe McCarthy?
Yeah, another black day on CA’s slate.
But it was Reagan who did all the damage, here, and nationally.
Set the tone, began the decline, wrecked what we had, single handedly.
Hmmm… My linky failed…!
I used to think if we all breathe in their pain and breathe out my blessings to them to help them ease their pain, well, I’m happy to die so they can recover.
Funny thing is, the more I breathed in their pain the more I realized I was breathing in their joy, and all I was breathing out was my pain and suffering. Idiot compassion.
The thing about tonglen that they failed to understand when they started to teach it is that what seems to be their pain is their kind of masochistic joy. And what we often think of as our blessings is just our pain acting like it’s something that has healing qualities. And whenever you start to thing there’s nothing wrong with you, there most definitely is something wrong with you.
Idiot compassion. Forgiving the unforgivable thinking it’s all good.
If that doesn’t describe Democrats and Obama all to hell, I don’t know what does.
WHOA there hoss, that seems harsh, you speaking so poorly of Eli . . .
Maybe he was talkin’ about his good pal John Ensign having an affair with his subordinate. Chambliss probably knows that there’s something called Ensigns in the military so that’s all he needed to know. /s
The problem is illustrated by nyceve’s film on dailykos today. She was talking to a Dem rep about HCR and he said there would be no public option because the Senate wouldn’t go for it. She asked if he didn’t know that the base, such as herself, would not show up in 2010 and it would be a problem for Dems. You could see in his face that he knew she was bluffing. After some more talk about passing a reconciliation bill that might make exchanges national but not much else, she ended with “from your lips to God’s ear.” Right there, she confirmed his smirking assumption that she was just blowing smoke when she said she and other base members would stay home if there were no public option. And that is why the left does not fear its base. The righties might stay home or run a guy like they did in upstate NY. The left will moan and groan and cry and beg but will be grateful for whatever crumbs they get once they get to the ballot box. I love nyceve, by the way, she’s done amazing work getting out the word on what it’s like for the uninsured. But she’s no poker player and she’s no hardball player and it showed.
There’s a lesson there, though.
They may fight dirty, but they absolutely never stop fighting.
We’ve always had batshit crazy wingnutters. What’s different is that supposedly sane, realist politicians claim that their whims and rants represent moderate, mainstream thinking.
Why? Because the politicians find it expedient–right up until the moment when sane people can no longer vote for them and crazy people don’t want to. You can hide a lot of malfeasance behind catering to loons, but only if you can actually get elected.
And their politicians all reflect that.
Sorry, but in Israel it started in ’48 when the goons who formed Likud first carried out terrorism to murder, slaughter and displace Palistinean’s, while the UN, USA and the rest of the world turned the other way, out of guilt from not being there for the Jewish People, during Hitler’s scourage in the 30′s thru to his passing.
The forming of a Jewish State was a wonderous thing in principle, in reality it was an act of terror that continues today.
Never…! even across the pond…! 8-(
USA! USA! USA!
Get a brain you librul ‘Merica hatin’ Morans. And show us your Birth CertiFicT
Signed merica luvin’, jeezuz wershipin’, 50 caliber rifle totin’, tobaccy chewin’, red state merica
PS And pleese by us a copee of hooked on phonics /s
I might have that actual day of voting wrong there, the 11th popped in due to Veteran’s Day, formerly known as Armistice Day . . . I didn’t look up the actual day of the vote . . . thanks for the reply.
I’ve come to hate Reagan more than Nixon . . . over the years, as Reagan really did more damage to our country than Nixon EVER did . . .
As I’m sure you saw, Cornyn is worried about the teabaggers forming a 3rd party.
Then perhaps we need to wake them up a bit. July 4th marches?
The Republican and Democratic parties are in the service of our corporate masters. They all must be overthrown. If you are part of the base of either party you are part of the problem.
What???
Running joke.
Eli Delenda Est!
Hey guys.Been awhile for me. Good to be back. Been lurkin’ though.
I dunno, Eli. You think these dickheads are really taken seriously by anybody? Except FOX? I mean, even Mathews, who’s as mainstream as they come, loves to beat up on the birthers and thinks Bachman is a loon.
I agree that all this complaining is a bunch of smoke to Obama and company.
Let’s face it. The relationship is over and HE IS DEFINITELY NOT COMING HOME AGAIN. We all need to move on.
Jane, somewhere along the line the Democratic and Independent progressives need a direction or the movement will disappear. Obama has almost destroyed 8 years of activism.
I suggest that as the conservative movement has its legitimate Tea Party (not the GOP version, the original one), progressives, or whatever the name is these days, also need ANOTHER reform movement.
It needs an accurate description and allowances for concerns for fiscal irresponsibility, trade reform, real health reform and other newer issues that people identify with. It can’t get bogged down with the traditional “leaders” who have already compromised, such as labor, the Democratic party and the Obama gang.
Until work is done in this direction, we are going in circles and wasting time. The progressive caucus in Washington is falling apart with even some progressive incumbents in trouble (Feingold), as Obama forces them off a cliff. There really is no time to waste. We get Obama. He won’t change. OK?
A Tea Party for the left. Don’t waste any more time. True conservative Tea Partiers share many concerns (not the Beck gang). And don’t be co-opted by the DINOS and neolibs.
Something new has to be forged out of the progressive wasteland. All else is wasting time.
Isn’t Tejas some of the most fertile Tea Bagger turf…? ;-)
Good point.
Good to see ya, BFL.
Well, the other side of that coin is that Bachmann is an Elected Official. Palin was a Governor and a Republican VP candidate.
Their politicians are sympathetic to the crazies because a lot of their politicians are *from* the crazies.
You think these dickheads are really taken seriously by anybody?
does that really matter when 69% of R’s believe that Obama is a Socialist?
The day he decided to run for president, after having sworn off politics when he lost the election for governor of CA in 1962.
The Progressive Movement, per chance…? Nothing wrong with that now, right..? ;-)
Where ya been and why just lurking? Only if ya wanna share.
Hi.
July 4th?
How about Memorial Day, in remembrance of all those who died because of a lack of health care insurance and subsequent lack of access to health care?
Been busy, really. That’s about it. Working. getting home late. that kind of stuff.
how you been?
FTFY.
GREAT observation.
We progs either back them all up (dems and pugs alike), and stick to our guns, or we might as well admit we’re just kidding, ha ha . . . . .
Im doing just fine, but it’s real nice to hear your voice again. You!
I’m thinking a good showing, on July 4th, might wake up the dems.
There’s stuff on the board for March sometime, forget the date, or who’s behind the drive.
But we need bodies in the streets, to put muscle in our message, or we’ll be marginalized and dismissed forever, as is happening.
Oh, just didn’t sound like you, guess I missed the begging of the running . . . *G*
Hey, BFL. Good to see ya.
BREAKING from The City Beautiful:
Another Grayson challenger drops out.
He wants to focus on getting Orlando a major league baseball team. Great. We have no stadium, nobody interested in building one, just shot our wad (as Bachman would say) on a new arena and tehre’s a team in Tampa that hardly draws flies. No interest in it.
Pussy.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/0s-gutierrez-drops-out_3-20100202,0,3754022.story
you too, man. what it do ? (my daughter taught me that)
To our charming reichwing disruptors; here is the first lesson in radicalism:
You may take this lesson in Chinese –
Or Russki –
Try it! You might find it refreshing that many parts of this lesson refer to all persons, not just citizens! It’s groovy!
The Progressive Movement, per chance…? Nothing wrong with that now, right..? ;-)
Republicans have an overdeveloped herd instinct. This is a tremendous asset in politics.
Just hoping for some leadership and the link above is all I’ve seen. It’s wake-up time for the dems, for sure.
It’s hilarious how Alan Grayson is in such huge trouble because of his “die quickly” comments, but no one wants to run against him.
Until they lose power, and realize that we were the ones who took it from them, all the marching in the world won’t do a bit of good.
That’s why they’re not afraid of us. We haven’t done that yet.
To answer Teddy Partridge’s question @ 8, when the religious right aren’t getting what they want, they stay home. That’s been their pattern. (I prefer voting for someone else, but as a Plan B, that isn’t too bad.) That’s why the Republicans are scared of their base. If they’re not satisfied, they walk.
That’s nice of you to say. Know what else? I’m just getting too fucking old and can’t stay up late as I used to. So what did I miss? Are we getting more trolls? You see Miss America?
I love groovy. It’s what I live for.
Hi, Kell.
Yep, that’s pretty much all they care about. Can we hurt them or help them? And can we do so more than the corporations?
I haven’t been able to stay up for LN or LLN for a while.
Missed the Ms. America thing. Did it happen? Gawd, I’m bad.
The more Jane is on tv, the more exposure we have here. Thus, there might be more trolls. I try not to pay attention.
Hey Demi -
I disagree. I don’t distinguish between a march and a nationwide event. Just something to show our solidarity and our numbers.
Your last name is so athletic. You do that too?
I think we did in Massachusetts, but they still haven’t absorbed the lesson. The corporations can pay for their advertising, and they can use that money to hurt them, but we are the ones with the votes. (Reload to see the changes I made to the previous comment, so I don’t have to repeat myself.)
Anyway, staying home, voting for someone else, using primaries when we can, that’s what it’s going to have to be. I’m not saying we can do it, but that’s what we have to do, or they’ll never take us seriously.
Yeah. Conventional wisdom was he’s too liberal for around here. My rep in the next district is also a freshman democrat and Blue Dog wannabe. She isn’t an official member of the Blue Dogs but she might as well be. And she’s in trouble. Nobody will run against the “too liberal” guy. But they’re lining up to challenge the Blue Dog wannabe.
It’s what jane has been hammering home forever (others too). Democrats want real democrats and will vote for them. The whole “you gotta be centrist to win” is a load of shit. Or put another way, Rahm is a load of shit.
I wish they were too, they just believe they are the lesser of two evils, its time to either empower The Greens or clean out the Congress, I said it before, its hard, expensive work but it needs to be done and the Poll just basically reaffirms what we ALREADY knew, you only have to look at the imagines…
Are we getting more trolls?
yup.
Think quantity, not quality….
Heh. I “can field” a lot of questions.
As far as athletic is concerened, um, *LAUGHSOUTLOUD!*
Speaking of groovy… You’re from CA, right? Know what song I couldn’t get outta my head for days last week? Surfin’ USA.
Let’s just say that marches and so forth are really more for the marchers than they are for the politicians. Politicians care about power (most of them, at least). If you can deny them that power, they matter. When you can’t, all the demonstrating in the world won’t change their minds. It’s the power represented by those demonstrations that’s important.
Are you taking care of them? Politely showing them the door, I assume.
Ah just got here, seen th’ splelin’ on dat dere sing an’ figgered ah’d brtter reed Eli’s post afore ah got contageous.
Politicians care about power (most of them, at least).
Politicians carer about $. That’s true Alito.
Thanks Supreme Court.
This is, quite frankly, the best election to do that. We will probably never have a bigger cushion. On the other hand, they’d probably just write it off as “We’re just helpless victims of the economy, there was nothing we could have done.”
I’m going to ask what may be a stupid question, so apologies in advance if that’s what it proves to be.
Is there any list or group which ranks corporations on liberal values? Or by regressive values? I realize they are businesses, but some do seem to care more (or less) than others about the general welfare of their employees, customers, or the world at large. What I’m getting at here is this: would it be possible to use our patronage or boycotts of these businesses as one way to ratchet up some of the pressure on the politicians? If we are only patronizing companies that at least lean in our direction and keeping our money (insofar as is possible; we have no choice when it comes to insurance companies, for example) away from those who don’t, could it be a pressure that would move companies and the politicians those companies support in our direction? I’m sure I’m pie-in-the-sky here because I am guessing we wouldn’t have the numbers to make a difference, but then again, think about all the advertisers that pulled out of Fox after attention was brought to the situation.
there’s usually no need.
they tend to be self-damning.
I catch your drift. Same way here.
Who dat?
Fuck everybody. I’m takin’ the Saints. Don’t laugh. Anybody remember Beerfart’s Heart-Over-Head-Special 2 years ago? “Giants over Patriots straight up. Keep your points.”
I disagree with anyone who says bodies in the streets (MILLIONS OF BODIES), constantly, over a period of time are ineffective. That, and voices of dissent that threaten the DEM party with lack of votes, will have GREAT impact.
To you naysayers, LBJ did what he did because of unmitigated VIOLENCE in the streets, across the nation.
We don’t have to be violent, just MASSIVE, and repeatedly . . . and also at least once show it at the polls.
That’s how one imposes the will of the people upon the electeds, despite the grip of corporate feudalism over the masses and the electeds.
Course, work stoppages and boycotts will be required, also . . . any pages from Ghandi or the early 60′s thru the early 70′s in USA will do . . . it worked then, it always works. Bodies, millions of bodies, move and make movements, and create change. History proves it. Bodies and mass movements are political game changers, voting, not so much anymore.
How about April Fool’s Day? What could be more fitting?
There used to be Buy Blue, but they appear to be shut down.
Educated, middle class, politically active Democrats are supposed to be the brains of the left. The working class is the body. If you want to see your policies made law or if you simply want to restore the rule of law, You must enlist the aid of the working class. We are up for grabs. Sara knows this. Don’t make it all about unions. Many of us have been trained to hate unions. Make it about the dignity and virtue of labor. Make it about solidarity. Make it a LABOR PARTY.
Hey ya, jayt.
I know, we haven’t had a really good rag out, pile on, that I’ve been aware of. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, ’cause I’m just not here all that often. Good to see you, bub.
That’s the ‘we’re not an important city if we don’t have a pro sports franchise’ line. It would be more impressive if the sports involved actually allowed the public to own the team as well as the stadium.
Well, to get myself in all sorts of trouble here, there’s an expression from the old imperialist days of the British Empire that applies here:
Don’t worry about knowing the Oriental mind. Just make sure they understand yours.
We have to make clear to them what we’re doing and why. They can assume it’s the economy, as long as we don’t tell them otherwise. And by “we”, I mean all of us, not just Jane, Markos, or some of our other leaders. That might be where the demonstrations can be useful.
Dat true Larue!! It has been down hill for labor every since and GREED was the NEW GOD! It was OK to screw the middle class and so on the fucker!
*smooch*
Voting for someone else, good. Staying home for now, bad.
Takes time to prop up new candidates who are truly progressive and can win.
In the meantime, bodies, in the masses, in the streets.
And work local, and vote as prog as possible, never stay home and never vote for rethug over a dem, never.
But for QUICK impact and change with those we have elected, and the system as it is?
Bodies, massive bodies, and often, repeatedly, in the streets in a peaceful manner.
That’s pressure that even our votes, letters and email’s don’t bring to bear.
That’s visual displeasure our electeds can’t ignore . . . coupled with our threat we WILL vote them out one way or another.
But staying home is not a good thing.
WHEN IN DOUBT MARGINALIZE…….Beginning in the early 1990′s the process of marginalization became the base strategy for both parties. Party politics were changed by the never ending campaign cycle, by the need for huge bankrolls, and by modern media/communication that put everyone at the center of political action whenever they wanted to be.
Several strategic pundits identified the need to create a solid, immovable base which party leaders could count on for money, for crowds and to serve as surrogates. Behind the scenes political moxie required alliances with BIG LABOR, BIG BUSINESS, BIG LOBBY, BIG SPECIAL INTEREST.
The creation of the immovable core meant different things for each party. For the Dems it meant a big umbrella, embracing philosophies that were moderately conservative to downright liberal, a broad geography (excepting the South), multi racial/post racial alliances, and religious tolerance/acceptance. In other words open the doors very wide.
The GOP took a different tack. A small but strong umbrella, a narrower and narrower conservative political philosophy, focus on the South/rural America, appeal to the traditional American (i.e. white, Christian) and a presumption that Christianity is essentially triumphant.
An intriguing development has been one of style. The in-your-face, loud, dramatic, protest/rally/demonstration at one time belonged to the Democratic Party and its supporters. Today it seems to be more at home with the GOP and their supporters.
The result: these poll/survey outcomes are not in the least bit surprising.
Some decent exit polling might help too.
I think they mostly care about money as a means to gain power, though there may be equal cause to think it’s the reverse.
So, one of O’Keefe and company’s M.O.’s when they were in college was to take a liberal position and then extrapolate it to a ridiculous level and try to use it to make publicity (like trying to give donations to Planned Parenthood that could only be used to abort black fetuses). Such an approach would be impossible for the positions in the Kos poll–they’re already so outrageous that trying to go beyond them would land someone in jail or an insane asylum.
Well done.
Yeah, and without the demonstrations there IS no demonstration, and no power.
Yer splitting pubic hairs I don’t get . . . the demonstrations ARE the power.
They are effective, if big enough, and often enough. Coupled with work stoppages and boycotts, that’s some serious public clout when matched with the message we WILL vote you out!!! We WILL primary you!
“Who Dat…!” Indeed…! Fuck the NFL…! Nawlins will have an extra special Fat Tuesday, come next Tuesday…! ;-)
That DFA poll should have been a wakeup call. It was a decent poll. Some folks felt like the questions about the mandate were leading questions, but I don’t think so, particularly given that MA voters were already familiar with the idea. Do polls like that after every loss, and Democrats will get the point sooner or later. Either that, or they’ll lose office.
Man, you got that right. Gettin’ close to the bottom of the barrel.
Remember all those demonstrations at the end of 2002 and the beginning of 2003, that shut down DC?
Yeah, they got a lot of attention, didn’t they? /s
Most of us can’t afford to be out in the streets demonstrating. We need the jobs more than we need what little attention the media might deign to give us.
Alas, O’Keefe was given the veneer of respectability via the NPR interview with Breitbart today.
Of course, NPR failed to mentioned the ACORN tapes were doctored.
Crazy or not the Republicans look to do well in November. I wrote a seminal/oxdown diary back on July 29, 2009, six months ago:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/6783
saying we should think about putting together an alternative party to the Democrats. The truth is those Republican gains should have been progressive ones if we had set ourselves up to primary Democrats with grassroots progressives running on an anti-Washington populist platform. Yes, the incumbents would be better financed but they have a shit record to run on. Rather than cede these races to the Republicans we should have run a bunch of Mr. (and Ms.) Smiths to go to Washington.
Murph The Surf . . . what a DJ he was.
And he’d have said, the stuff you speak of began WHOLE HEARTEDLY under Reagon, in 1980. And that’s how he WAS elected.
Yer off by a a few presidents . . . it started with Reagan, all of what you describe.
Nice handle though, where’d you pick it up?
Yeah, yeah, I’m waitin’ for the positions 1 and 2 players to show up later this month.
People marched a lot before the Iraq War began, and a lot of people marched. It didn’t change anything. Marching in and of itself changes nothing, any more than staying home or voting for the other guy does if no one knows why. It’s the directed exercise of power that matters. If marching means a change in voting patterns, politicians will worry. Otherwise, I don’t think they will, based on recent experience.
UPDATE: Hence the nasty imperialist quote in an earlier comment.
Yeah. Right. Like you and I should meet at Devonshire and Balboa and Bring Down the city. Ha! ((PJ))
Gee, what a novel idea.
MY Old Man Favre was only ONE 10 yard scramble of being in the Stupor Bowl . . . and he threw it.
Sigh.
Go Manning.
Yep – for some reason it works for teabaggers in the hundreds, but not for lefties in the thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Weird.
Even if they don’t win, third party candidates are a great way of showing why you didn’t vote for someone else, particularly if those candidates have a clear platform. If they’re something like the Greens, then Democrats will know they lost votes.
He’ll lose some of that veneer when he goes to prison. I can’t wait for the weeping and gnashing of teeth on FauxNews when he is convicted and sentenced.
Liberal activist judges!
Not so weird when ya think that Fox et al are primed and ready for the small, loud tea party stuff and AWOL when there are thousands of hippies in the streets. That’s called rigged.
I was thinking on the way to work today; why not register the domain name
BuyMyVote.com
You know, if political speech is free, why can’t I say my vote is for sale? Why can’t, in the free marketplace of ideas, CAN’T I sell my vote? And to the highest bidder?
If, repeat if, he’s convicted, Federal time is easier than state time.
I know! I should have given an atrios style
Weird! or
WEEEEEEEEEEEE!
They didn’t shut down DC, and they were too few in numbers across the nation, and too few over a period of time.
I can appreciate the need for a job, really, but weekends and nights?
A blue flu sick day? A day off of vacation time accrued?
Boycotts?
If you can’t do that, within your needs for the job, then you don’t really want to fight for change.
Thruout history, people risked all they had, their lives, for change.
You risk, you demand, you protest.
If you can’t do that within a job you have, yer not really fully committed to change.
And I can appreciate that . . . but others thruout history, in the 60′s, and now even, risk much for change.
I appreciate your need for the job . . . we’re MANY of us one paycheck from being homeless.
But to do nothing but write lettters and send emails? Not to be in the street in your time off? Not to take a blu flu sick day or vacation time?
IMHO, Nader had a clearer vision and platform in ’00 and ’04…! Much more distinct than Gore or Kerry presented…!
OT
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Top-Vermont-Yankee-official-apf-75556395.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
Obama’s Nuclear Plans might be over any pups in Vermont should worry.
We expect no less from corporate owned NPR . . .
There’s actually prolly a state law prohibiting the selling of one’s vote. Prolly been on the books since after the Civil War but still there.
if you’re still about, you have mail
Good Evenin’ Eli and Firedogs – just passing though – catch y’all tomorrow
good to see you on the threads JayT
Catchers and pitchers report soon!!!!
Anybody can win! Any one can make the team, make it to the big show!
The Cubs might win!
“Ma, I’ll be home soon, they’re beginning to curve me.”
*G*
Looks like the domain is still available…
Could be a good satirical site in the right hands. Not mine, for instance.
Nixon deserves more credit than what you are giving him. I always think of him as the guy that made it clear we were being ruled by men of low character and no honor, and it turned people off to the pointn where they stopped watching because they no longer had any high expectations of their government officials.
That set the stage for everything that followed, IMO.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Top-Vermont-Yankee-official-apf-75556395.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
Governors can’t fire power executives unless maybe something criminal happened?
UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!11!!1!
If one can PURCHASE political speech, surely one may SELL it, neh?
My point is, turning the argument on it’s head should certainly awaken some people.
Maybe my domain name is wrong. Is e-votebay.com better? :)
They were not ENOUGH, in numbers, nor in frequency, nor in cities . .
NOT what I’m talking about, see the 60′s and 70′s for what I mean.
Course, back then, the African Americans were showing their displeasure with things, and that added flames to the hippie masses in the streets . . and added pressure to all the causes social . . .
No pressure of sufficient largess, no change. Big pressure, more change.
You use that which has been ineffective to dismiss the strategy and ignore that which has been effective, because of execution, and largesse.
I don’t buy it, hoss.
I thought so in ’00. Didn’t pay much attention in ’04. Kept hearing about how my vote was wasted, but if all the folks who’d been inclined to vote for Nader did, I suspect it would have gotten the Democrats’ attention. Five percent of the vote is tough to do without in any national election.
You only have power if you’re willing to exercise it. Make the Democrats feel like they’ll have your vote no matter what, and they’ll assume they’ll have it no matter what they’ll do.
Critical Nuclear Weapon Design Information (CNWDI) – in some weapons tritium gas fills the pit of the pill to boost the yield of the device.
Yeah but coakley proved independents like me will indeed stay home.
The only kind of march/demonstration that means anything is the kind that is so big and so prolonged that it shuts down all commerce in the area.
That menas you have to be ready to withstand violence from the police when they tell you to “Move along” and you refuse to move.
It’s hard for me to believe that many of our comfortably pacifistic comrades would join in for anything so uncomfortable.
Lisa Derrick is upstairs!
Late Night: Valentine’ Day Warm Up: Pork, not Palin
Kelly my clicky friend, it worked with millions.
It always works with millions.
Less, and less often, won’t work.
This is not the demonstration of convenience we require, it’s the demonstration of DEMAND, we need.
It’s the demonstration of DESPERATION, that’s required, to succeed. So far, and I have NO idea why, that desperation is not there, like it was in the 60′s and early 70′s.
Until the desperation is there, we get squat with letters, emails, calls.
It’s all good to do, I support it. I called Rep Matsui today about signing the Pignee letter to Reid.
But without bodies, mass amounts and over and over and over again, every weekend, without social unrest in large amounts and reoccurring, in a peaceful way of course, not much will change.
evenin’ all-
Does protest work? it does.
Nothing would please me more than to see O’Keefe and his minions do time, and the Feds to go after Breaitbart as an accessory, or a leader. *G*
*LQQSROUND*
Where?!?!?!?!?!?
I think this is an interesting idea, give some power back to the people. And it does turn the ruling on its head. HMMM.
Did anyone hear DN the other day when Amy was interviewing someone who had put an ad on Craig’s list to try to recruit a candidate to run against their bad congressman? Another idea, I am hoping one of the front pagers here will pick it up.
‘Tis an incarceration devoutly to be wished.
It’s the demonstration of DESPERATION, that’s required, to succeed. So far, and I have NO idea why, that desperation is not there, like it was in the 60’s and early 70’s.
Desperation? Well, 500 Americans who were mostly drafted were dying every week in VN, so well, that was a bit more of a desperate time than now, AFAIR.
The hatred directed at Obama by the right wing is the same kind of hatred that was directed at JFK.
work stoppages and boycotts are more important that marches. So are blockades. Like a blockade of wall street would be nice.
Yes, but it’s actually here.
There is no predicament in the scenario you describe, but it is just incomplete.
The Democrats have their base but you misidentify it if you beleive that those on the left are that base. The Democratic party base is a group of people still convinced of the benevolence of the US government and it’s basic fairness and goodness. It continues to have faith that the country can be set straight if we only try harder while leaving the basic structure of things as they are. In a word they believe in Obama’s rhetoric.
We on the left tend to see the US for what it is. An ordinary country in need of basic change in the way it treats its people and those around the world.
Whether the left is despised makes no difference and what is needed is not the adoration of the media but rather a clear demarcation between the left and the Democratic party. We have our beliefs and the Democrats have theirs. It is up to the left to makes its case which by the way is much more akin to the way the majority of the people feel than that of the Democrats.
I can appreciate your POV.
By the age of 10 (’63) I had already heard from my prog parents about Nixon as CA Senator, his run against JFK, his horrid history as a McCarthyite.
His comeback as President boggled me, it was my first election, I voted for McGovern.
I was shocked, defeated, chagrined.
But I was already hardened to him and his kind.
I was already hip and hep to government betrayals, corporate abuse of the masses, and more.
And then, Nixon went down in flames.
Beautiful.
Sadly, pardoned, and then, 4 years later, we had Reagan, who REALLY did the damage across the board, not just to the psyches of liberals.
So, IMO, Nixon was merely an emotional reaction, wheras Reagan made us bleed, die, and suffer in ways no other has since both Bushes.
Ok, then, I want a cool $Million for mine.
And that’s not negotiable, RNC, ya heah me?!?!?!?
NOT NEGOTIABLE!
(I don’t expect the DNC or DLCC to want my vote, for any price)
/s
As do I. Even the disturbances in Seattle during the WTO were a few jerks getting out of hand, followed by the police getting out of hand. Most everyone else was just trying to stay out of the way. Not that I blame them, mind you.
Still, with something like 100 million of us effectively not having our health care needs met already, the tipping point will arrive, I think.
¥eah, look at what ya got, and tell me in a year how happy you are for enabling Brown . . . *G*
Alas, there’s a large element of truth in what you say . . . still, I know folks in their 50′s-70′s who HAVE turned out for anti war and more during Shrub’s Reign Of Terror.
That’s a great read Ron, thanks.
And if you go back to the ’20′s for labor movements, activists were beat, killed, labeled commies, and more for advocating for workers rights (coal miners were a part of it all). Antiwar folks pre WW1 and WW2 were also beaten and labeled and savaged in many ways.
But large, ongoing and continuous mass protests are effective. History proves it.
Less is NOT more in this struggle and strife.
Well, in 1972 I was riing around with a big sign that read, “IMPEACHMENT WITH HONOR” on the back of my car, so Nixon will always have a very special place in my hall of villains.
I deliberately started ignoring the news after he got re-elected, for me that was when the snae really got replaced by the insane.
But, I will concede that Reagan deserves to be burning right alongside him in Hell, even if we can’t agree as to which should be subjected to the higher temperature. (“Ketchup is a vegetable,” for purposes of feeding poor children, was pretty roastworthy.)
We are the same age.
I have an OT question that seems like it could go at this time of day. I have been curious about the FB fan pictures on the front page of FDL. Since there are so many FDL fans, I find it odd that I always know people whose pictures are posted. How does it work? Does everyone see the same pictures I see of FDL fans, or does the blog or FB have the capability of providing photos of some of my personal FB friends (and does it do this linking for others) every time?
I mean, I don’t have THAT many friends and not THAT many are also FDL fans.
Wassup? Anyone know?
The reason is that the center of the Democratic party is closer to the center of the political spectrum than the center of the Republican party is to the center of the political spectrum.
As a cosequence the Republican party is closer to their right-wing than the Democratic party is to their left-wing
The econ sitch is the swing factor in this day and age hoss . . . say what you will, back then the antiwar protests were coupled with streets and cities in flames from the ghetto riots due to income class wars, along with the women’s rights efforts.
Back then, there was a culmination of minority economic disparity, civil rights, minority rights, women’s rights, and anti war protestations and anti corporate protestations (as makers of chems and the MIC weapons industry) that combined to bring MILLIONS to the streets, across the country.
So far, the minorities are not burning the cities and streets for some reason.
So far, the rest of the middle class and lower classes are NOT demonstrating their dissatisfaction with the problems at hand, which are two wars, loss of jobs, and basically a class war perpetuated by our corporate oligarchy that has bought and ruled our electoral process, from top to bottom.
And that, I can only ascribe to either fear, or a lack of understanding of what’s going on.
But the tempest IS simmering, and increasingly boils hotter and longer.
At some point, something is gonna give, with or without any of us or our ideals.
Unfortunately, and I would love to be proved wrong on this, I think only us oldies (I’m 58) still know how to get angry with focus and purpose. The numbers needed require participation by the young. The only way I know to get them motivated politically is, maybe, to take away their video games. SO, we may have to wait until they can’t pay their electric bills.
I’ve been disciplined here recently for being too openly, let’s say “active” in my thoughts, and I’m trying to be good now, so I’ll just say that the Declaration of Independence comes to mind when I have discussions like this. Nobody would say that the Founders were wussies.
I think it is beyond obvious that we won’t get change unless we can dish out some major discomfort. And that means we’ll have to absorb plenty of that in response.
Um, that’s a stretch although vague enough to be made.
Tell me the party’s, issues and participants on all sides that substantiate the JFK/Obama parallel you posit?
I don’t see it . . . apples and oranges.
JFK’s FIRST problem was his Catholic heritage!!!
I’m really curious why you’d make this comparison.
Also, I must assume those oldies who turned out were restricted to the Free Speech Zones (what an oxymoron that is!!!), right? From the govt POV, any demonstrators that are willing to accept that need not be taken seriously, by definition.
I respectfully disagree.
Blockaids are not non violent.
History has ample evidence to show massive protests can be peaceful (aside from the ruling class response which is often violent, not to mention paid ‘anarchists’ to foil the best laid plans of peaceniks).
And work stoppages (aka blue flu) and boycotts impact profits, immediately. If on a massive scale, nationally.
Fucks up Wall Street FAR much more worse, fucks up CORPORATE interests FAR much more than any violent ending blockaids.
I’m with you.
That tipping point, hoss, is the elephant in the room everyone ignores, left, center, and right.
That tipping point, is gonna shake this country like never before, since the riots of the 60′s and 70′s in the ghetto’s.
On that, I’m in complete agreement with ya . . .
One might attribute it to:
1.surveillance tecchnology that makes widespread organization and preparation impossible;
2.the knowledge that they now have weapons that can lay a whole crowd down at once; and
3.the knowledge, after Kent State, that they are willing to kill us for protesting.
Many of the factors that I list were at work in the Reagan years, but the difference between then and 1990 is the use of the word “strategy.” From 1981 to 1989 the Reagan Revolution served as a laboratory for the emerging GOP. By 1990 the GOP brain trust developed a set of specific strategies that would institutionalize the organic development witnessed under Reagan. The single term of George HW Bush demonstrated the importance of the Southern Strategy, the NeoConservative Movement, and Identification with “Traditional” Americans in the creation of a solid core of party faithful. By the end of the Clinton years, that core was hard at work to elect Mr. Bush, and despite terrible national conditions to reelect him. It wasn’t enough to transfer power to McCain (a weak choice with a weaker VP nominee) but it proved to be enough to launch an immediate counterattack upon the administration.
My handle: a take off on my name; allusion to a a former jewel thief (and very sadly murderer) who has redeemed his life and life of a lot of convicts as the head of a prison ministry; and lastly…friends gave me the name because of my love of snorkeling and scuba.
Yes, you are right. Those were the days huh?
But the masses in the streets came from the universities, and there were a lot of other currents.
The class situation is more egregious now, yet there has been a lot of change around the issues we were all raising back in the day.
Education and access to media have really changed the nature of our cities, and certainly there has been a big change in the face of culture, sports, and politics (among others) since then.
But it was a fantastic dynamic.
If we want to win, we have to make sure we know what the platform is. We then have to know what we’re fighting to accomplish. We need to know that the enemy is not other citizens, but bad ideas and bad policies. We need to be BETTER than Democrats and Republicans alike. No bullshit capitulation to protect our image. No political halfspeak and vague semantic deception. No obfuscation of our own responsibilities or abdication of responsibility for our failures to anyone else. We have to work harder, be stronger, be better, and NEVER give up the fight. If you want to get more voters to vote progressive, get out there and change minds. Give them information, show them how progressive policies benefit everyone, strengthen the nation, and advance democracy. Elevate the electorate.
The politics of triangulation, lying, focus grouping, ‘message management’, professional deception has to be eschewed by progressives if you want to get real about winning.
I know it’s fun to sit around and make fun of conservatives and moderates and corporate shills, but if you want to DEFEAT them instead of just sit in a sandbox and throw sand back and forth at each other forever, create a world that deflates their argument. Like, I don’t know, let’s say Sweden/Denmark/Finland are all wildly successful liberal nations. Under what circumstance would a conservative movement be able to dismantle that society?
Want to know why we can win? Because our ideas are better. Our governments function better. Our ideas work better in practice. They accomplish the most good for everyone, instead of concentrating benefit in the hands of the few.
It’s time to stop being timid about being liberal or progressive. Get out there and let the ideas speak for us.
Shit, that’s some good scholarly analysis, in a short form, no less.
Nice comment, hoss . . . really nice.
All of the above tactics, simultaneously and prolonged, but the prerequiste is to get the minds focused on just who the enemy is.
PEOPLE v. BIG CORPORATIONS.
Night, all.
Isn’t that the Bill Murray monologue from STRIPES? lol
Seriously, you are right on target, but it’s hard to do. It’s much easier to do what the corporatists do.
Politically, the young turned out in HUGE numbers for Obama, and got him elected.
Many of them are quite disenchanted with him at this point, from what I read.
Many of them are gonna stay home, one way or another, as they are beat down after all that hope they shed at the alter of Obama.
But man, they were ROUSED, animated, and turned out to vote for something, they ain’t getting.
Anyone who can reach THEM, is gonna have a leg up on it ALL.
As much as we 50+ boomers are suffering from lack of jobs, income, loss of savings, loss of healthcare, homes and housing, the younger one’s have NO hope of what we once had, and are likely quite jaded and retreating to more local endeavors of survival, forming their own local connections to trade, share and compile means to survive, eat, live, and such . . . and most of it underground and untraceable tax wise.
They are much fucking wiser than I am, and much more well connected, in their coping and adapting.’
As it always is, at some point, a generation gives up it’s hold on and becomes at the mercy of the climes and times, while the younger one’s cope and deal with it in ways we wouldn’t.
My hope is, if it all goes to hell, I can cook and sustain for younger folks who have ‘deals’ in place for products.
That and some music, and me and my wife might survive with better quality of life in our end times than what it looks like so far.
Course, there’s the old communal thang, but too many are too old to sustain it, we need the younger folks, no matter WHAT the scenerio is . . . we need them, in our aging years, badly.
And they have become alienated from many of us, due to the systemic shit that drowns us all.
Make friends and cook for your local young folks!!! We’ll need them! *G*
Nice trading comments with ya, thanks . . .
And giving up before you begin is exactly why the corporatists win. They’re banking on your inaction. The choice is difficult, but failing to make the choice and back it up with action only enables them to continue business as usual.
Yes there IS that more recent issue to deal with, protest wise . . . WTO in Seattle certainly points that out, as someone pointed out.
Yes, impediments to taking it to the streets, that were not there before . . granted.
Still, what price freedom? What cost, freedom?
Hell, what cost of existing under that which is?
What’s worse? Being, or fighting for better?
I don’t know yet.
Still, what cost the price of freedom?
Others have laid down more for less in our nations history.
Strategy? That’s a quibble. Reagan had HUGE strategy, and was guided by a GOP machine that worked him for all it was worth.
Where I would agree with you is simply, that after Reagan, and NEWT, it got more and more complex and sophisticated, but that’s an evolutionary given, so it’s NOT the raison d’etre for the being.
As to murphthesurf, google him up, you might find it entertaining to learn of his exploits as a DJ and mover and shaker . . . *G*
Thanks for the reply and comment . . .
Thanks for your pithy remarks. Much truth and wisdom in there. It’s not beyond hope that we can cobble the necessary elements together, it’s just goona take a lot more work and sacrifice than mot seem willing to consider right now. However, I am convinced the market is going down again, and will take the economy with it. Might be an interesting summer . . .
My bottom line is to comfort myself with the thought that, worst comes to worst, I have a tent and a kayak and a gun and a fishing rod, and dying in the woods was good enough for most of our forebears. ;)
To bed, my computer just turned into a pumki . . .
My friend and admired ally, don’t EVER think I’m giving up. I just want a plan that will be effective. Sweet dreams.
What fascinates me hoss is that given more and more educated and the time that’s passed to show history for what it was, and the internet, and greater access to info . . .
Why the apparent lethargy?
It’s pure human lethargy . . . and I don’t get it . . . not even from the progs who know what works and what worked before.
Hell, the progs refuse to use the past to set the present action much less plan for future actions.
I just don’t get it . . . I can only explain it as you and others have suggested, that it’s from fear due to repressive climes for surveillance, retribution and violence in the streets from the status quo.
Fear, is the only way I can suggest why we haven’t made prog gains in the light of such repression, across the board.
Glad to hear it. And don’t worry. The fight is and will continue to be hard, but it is the right fight. It is the necessary fight. It is the righteous fight.
Anytime you lose hope and feel the world is unchangeable, remember people like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., or Ghandhi. These people faced overwhelming and ugly adversity. It was hard, it hurt, and even they at times lost their will, but they realized to give in was to accept and consent to the world around them.
And yet we remember them far more for the way they changed the world than we remember their enemies that fought to keep it as it was.
Reading comments coming from the left, you would think that liberals have lost faith in their leader and his message. The Congress hasn’t helped since they’ve pulled out every big spending program since the “Great Society” and tried to stuff it down our throats. Hopefully, we can get some balance and reason back in Congress after the November elections. During the Clinton years, liberals were crying about the deficit, now that BO is president and spending trillions, liberals don’t seem to care!
That’s a blessing of a comment . . . as a prog, thanks . . ;-)
Heh, know yer sandman bound and gone, but we got camping gear . .
We ain’t survivalists, but we got SOME worst case buffer . . . and we can cook!
And make music . . . a welcome to any tribe, we hope . . . ;-)
~~~Friendly reminder – flaming or insulting other commenters is ‘strongly discouraged‘ here.~~~
You must be somewhat mistaken, the ‘GREAT SOCIETY’ and most of LBJ’s work was in light of a country and nation blazing and on fire in the ghetto’s from economic and minority rights inequality, in light of pressure from antiwar factions (liberals and university kids) and a fear from the corporate state that they’d lose workers and productivity.
Not too long after that, corporate powers began to ensure that the middle class and lower class could NEVER hold them hostage again and begin to dismantle the masses issue after issue, thanks to Reagan, Clinton, and the two Bushes, and now Obama.
So, I don’t get what jive yer selling, YOU don’t make it clear what you stand for, and well, you completely mis represent history as it’s known, so I assume yer a Rovian construct!
Good luck with that in here . . . *G*
Que? Moi?
And you copped the 200, scoundrel!!! ;-)
Just that it was in the chain of my comments . . .
Tell me it ain’t so, Mo?
*G*
Revising history makes it better, eh? Corporatons and small business owners are the locamotive that make this country great. The Government employs more that 2.5 million and the majority of those are Union members that vote Democrat. The Government is taking over car companies, banks, trying to take over health care, all great liberal ideas….hard work is scoffed at, handouts and entitlements are the mantra of liberalism. Keep talking like a liberal and watch as our country, fed up with mortgaging our childrens future, wakes up and votes in candidates that are fiscally responsible.
Nonsense. The locomotive that makes the country great are its people, not imaginary legal constructs that can be declared as people. Your understanding of liberalism is weak at best.
Fiscally responsible like cutting taxes? Which increases the deficit?
Fiscally responsible like cutting Social Security, which boosts the economy?
Nice try. But try again.
don’t feed.
giving it arguments (oxygen) only keeps it coming back.
True, newtonusr, incoherence is a tactic, not an argument.
Do progressives really go around in their daily duties thinking the are always right? All other people are wrong and stupid,while I, as a progressive, am the one to tell them stupid people what is good for them. What a pathetic way too look at other people. Thank God progressives are the minority think tank in this country.
FYI, my right wing friends are always convinced that they are right about everything. And not because they have evidence supporting them, but just because they feel it or want it to be a certain way.
The big diff with progressives is that, when confronted with new evidence that undermines our previous views, we revise our views. By contrast, righties prefer to simply reject the new evidence, while attacking the messenger that brought it or the venue where it was presented. Ad hominem ad nauseum ad absurdum.