Ailes: “The American people…don’t need 2,000 pages of lawyer…”
___

No, the 30-odd pages of HR 676 would suffice quite nicely.

This was a thing of beauty.

(Dunno why I have to keep logging in to post a comment, when I haven’t logged out.)

Jabba the Ailes is about the best depiction I think I’ve heard. Quite apt in all most al ways.

Sweet. Good to see Jabba smacked down. Too bad this will only be noticed on lefty blogs and possibly on KO & RM. It’ll be crickets from the right-wing, corporate-owned media. But a shout out to Krugman for telling Jabba the truth right to his fat, ugly, nasty face. Jabba is a blight, no doubt about it.

Yeah, I had to re-login on an earlier post (after I’d stepped away for a bit).

It does happen occasionally. No idea why; just another one of the mysteries of the Net.

Thanks for the video, it’s a joy to have Krugman on This Week, and watching him swat down Will and Ailes is a treat. It’s reassuring that he keeps being invited back, when his grasp of facts and the chutzpah to use it outshine most of the other pundits. Why do I suspect that Faux news will launch a campaign to get him off the air, along with another superior debater, Pres. O.?

Is he arguing that the freedom of speech includes freedom of lying?

It’s about damn time some high-profile media figures started calling the Faux propaganda machine just exactly what it is. Let’s see if anyone else has the stones to step up.

I didn’t watch the whole show. I wonder if anyone asked him how long he will subsidize the Money losing Glenn Beck show. I think I’ll ask his boss on Tuesday at the conference call, “Glenn Beck has lost over 80 advertisers. What impact did that have on the overall profitability of the division? We know you have patience for money losing entities but when do you expect advertisers to return to the show and overall revenues to increase?”

Maybe I could get permission from Jane or Gregg to ask the question for FDL.

They like to crow about the market, but if you are rich enough you can kep a money loser like Beck on because he serves your agenda. Just like the money losing Think Tanks push an agenda that eventually make money for their big bucks donors.

I watched part of that, but Ailes talking was making my head explode.

I saw the part where he felt free to just interrupt Arianna Huffington and keep talking. Didn’t see him do that to any of the men.
Disturbingly common occurrence.

This is one of the funniest (and most accurate) descriptions I’ve ever read:

He just ignores it, belches up a total non sequitur, then starts spewing Republican talking points.

That was an act of grace by Paul Krugman.

“Jabba the Ailes”

Heh-heh, in a rare treat for me I saw that show, and concluded that a regular diet of those things is probably very bad for us.

And Ailes instantly reminded me of Hank Quinlan, the Welles character pictured at the link. Partly it was a resemblance, but mostly it was Ailes whiney, sentimental way of smearing lies over the truth, much as Quinlan did it. Seeing that slime in person might have helped Krugman along, I’ll bet.

That happens to me a lot lately.

but after this beatdown by Krugman, I doubt he’ll be back.

More likely it will be Krugman who’s not invited back for exposing the emperor’s nakedness.

but I had a wry chuckle when he plugged his paper as a source of information. At one time I had the NYT as my home page, but dumped it when it allowed itself to be used as a conduit of lies in order to help foment the invasion of Iraq. Haven’t been back since.

Ailes resorts to an old standby trick. In the face of a spot-on critique, he tries to make it a critique of the audience. “The American people are not stupid…”

Taken to its logical conclusion, this absolves FoxNews and any other communications venue of any responsibility whatsoever for its content.

Hope you will do just that, and get the answer that of course, Ailes will go to the corporate welfare addicts that profit when the public, and even right wing fronts, lose money, for support – when it concerns keeping on the figures that will spew their talking points/propaganda for pay.

Right. The question is how does he talk about “The American people” when he is not in public. I’m guessing he refers to them as idiots. He probably really hates his viewers, but likes the money they bring to the table. Think of Casino croupiers and the gamblers who lose money every day. The croupiers often hate them (see the great movie Croupier with Clive Owen.)

Of course the “American people are not stupid”. But there are large sub-sets of the “American people” that are incredibly stupid.

It just depends on what sides of issues folks are on that lets you discover who is stupid or not. And the answer varies for all of us.

I’m trying to. I wrote all the NewsCorp financial analysts last quarter about the topic and none of them asked the question. This quarter I’ve been writing the press who attend the conference call, but I doubt they will ask the question. They have a tendency to just brush it off. “As long as he makes net money it’s none of our business.” yet this is an issue. As a massive media company they can lose millions a month for a long time because they want to keep it going. Yet the NewsCorp shareholders SHOULD be asking him, “This is a money losing show. What are you doing to get the revenue back? Can the ratings boost for this show be balanced out by the ad revenues on other shows? Can you prove that?” But if they ask those questions the CFO of NewsCorp just says, “We don’t break that out.”
This is the power of a Monopoly. According to regulations they don’t have to break this out.

I was trying to get the institutional investors to ask this question, but they didn’t because they didn’t see that it had a big enough impact and Fox News made net money. But they could have and should have made more. Beck’s show is being subsidized by the other shows. 81 advertisers left.
The NewsCorp is giving Fox slack but in another business someone who is costing the company money would not be given this long of a leash unless they articulated their long term goal. “We intend to lose money on Glenn Beck for 4 more quarters because we like the ratings and we think that the companies that have pulled their ads will come back.” That will tell you something about NewCorp. The have a history of keeping money losing outfits on the books because they want to drive other money MAKING companies out of business.

This is the power of consolidated media.

The Baron Vladamir Harkonnen from Dune is who I’m reminded of. “Some spittle, for your face…”

Yeah, it isn’t just now and then, it is frequent. It’s not a big deal since it seems to remember me so I can just click the button, but a little bit annoying nonetheless. Seems to have started about the time of FDL’s latest “revision.”

Okay, I am a little confused here.

Yes, Krugman is right. The GOP was spewing disinformation from the get-go.

But, the plan that emerged was worthy of being ripped apart. In fact, FDL is one of the main rallying areas for progressives like myself who thought the Senate plan was a pile of crap.

So, how are we supposed to defend Obama when the legislation he was trying to ram down our throats was nothing like the alleged ‘reform’ he made us believe he was seeking?

Can’t you take a hint? *g*

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Yes it was great to see Jabba the Ailes smacked down on national media and it was good for the soul ta see Obama workin’ over the congressional fascists for everyone to see but in fact this is all part of the problem…both things are an example of how the politics and political dialogue in this country gets twisted to project a dialectic with no antithesis and in so doing reinforces the mythology of free speech in our mass communications. First of all the Ailes “interview” was done on a network that supposidly competes with Fox thus giving the audience the idea that the bullshit Ailes represented was legitimate political speech and provided the non-Fox networks six degrees of separation from the swill that Ailes was forced to eat. Secondly, Obama apeared on national television debating the lunitic minority and pleading with them to be more reasonable so that Obama could get all the things their shared corporate masters wanted accomplished. This in fact reinforced the legitimacy of the fascist political opposition while avoiding the thesis to which the fascists are supposed to be reacting.

Ailes shouldn’t have even been interviewed and the topic of political disinformation through corporate media should instead have been discussed and analized by the panel using video examples of the use of corporate media to advance the political arguments of one political party. And Obama should be seen taking questiones from 140 Democratic House members justifying his advancment of fascist Republican policies.

ObamaRhama is being allowed to set up the Democratic Party to lose their majorities in both houses of congress while at the same time burying the antithesis of the corpoate politics and actions that have got us into this fuckin mess. Obama must be forced to debate his own party on national television, then the debacle he sets up for this November will only hurt the corporatists and his own poltical future while leavin the Democratic Party much more progressive and leaves the corporate fascists to argue amongst themselves.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE IS NO COMPROMISING WITH FASCISTS!!

I know you keep trying to bring out the irrationality of their behavior, unless it is all directed toward an eventual political rightwing goal, when the big money of taxpayer funds can be breached.

‘This is the power of consolidated media.’ – when it has corporate backing.

Ah, glad you saw that too. Ailes was bullying and rude in interrupting Arianna who challenged him as forcefully as Krugman, but Krugman was not interrupted. Barbara should have not let him talk over Arianna.

Here is Ailes this morning on “This Week” as to the business he is in.

AILES: FOX News is fair and balanced. We had Geraldine Ferraro on for 10 years as the only woman the Democrats ever nominated. Now we have the only woman that the Republicans nominated. I’m not in politics, I’m in ratings. We’re winning.

Well, at least he isn’t confused about being in the news business.

AILES: FOX News is fair and balanced.

…in the same sense that the ocean is arid and barren.

He invokes the “Founding Fathers” and the US Constitution for cover. The First amendement for practical purposes has been coopted by the Reich Wing press that spews disinformation in a calculated manner much like “British colonies in North America published “by authority,” that is” (wiki) in the early 1700s. See the similarity a need to tea party the faux tea partyers
So Paul busted them good work.

I’m not surprised to see Ailes, the “face” of Fox Propagana Channel, is fat, ugly and full of hot air, just like Fox. This man is so disgusting it makes any program he is on difficult to watch. He comes off to me as a liar, a deceiver, an unscrupulous propagandist who pushes his wing nut agenda on Fox. Anyone who deliberately distorts, twists and “changes” the real news to suit his extreme political agenda should not be given another platform to spew his venom. He is a disgusting old fool who is very harmful to what America, truth & justice stand for.

Beck is a great lead in to the evening shows that do make money—- O’Reilly being the big dog. Although I was pleased with Krugman’s challenge, I wanted more.

I have been watching Beck’s newest campaign. He tends to link a new book, in this case “Common Sense”, to programming on his radio and tv shows, and articles in his magazine. Throughout it all he pushes his newest book- so advertisement essentially.

On Friday he claimed that he was going to provide a primer on the progressive movement in the USA. Apparently he needs a new target for his venom as cries of socialist, communist, marxist and fascist have grown passe’.

Early on during his Friday show, he spoke of the federal income tax as a device used by progressive to subvert the American economy. He looked into the camera and made the point that the tax was even called “a progressive tax.” He smirked and nodded his head. AHA! Evil progressives decide to name their evil tax for themselves! EVIL and STUPID.

The term is in fact a technical one used by economists. A progressive tax is a tax by which the tax rate increases as the taxable base amount increases
Reading the writing published under his name, it appears that he favors the flat tax. A flat tax only helps the rich while being extremely hurtful to the rest of Americans. A flat tax assumes that a dollar’s worth means the same among all income levels. A dollar is worth more to a person who is middle class or lower class.

MOST OF THE FOX AUDIENCE WOULD BE TERRIBLY HURT BY A FLAT TAX BUT THAT AUDIENCE DOES NOT PAY THE BILLS. THE AUDIENCE IS SOLD TO THE ADVERTISERS. SO FOX PROMOTES IDEAS THAT HURT THE AUDIENCE ITS ADVERTISERS WANT. SHAMEFUL.

AILES: FOX News is fair and balanced.

…in the same sense that the ocean is arid and barren.

I LOVE THIS.
Fox is to Fair as Ocean is to Arid.

Well, it’s no coincidence that public education is far from to top of the right wing agenda. It’s the first thing they’d like to drown in Norquists’ bathtub.

The Right has never believed “the people” really deserve a seat at the decision table. As Richard Posner has written (Law, Pragmatism and Democracy) — god I wish he wouldn’t try to coopt authentic American pragmatism — the people are good to have there in reserve, just in case. But voting is largely irrelevant to the Right, who think Elites should be in charge because it’s all over the heads of regular folk anyway.

I think there is wisdom in the broad public, regardless of education level. However — a big however — the disinformation spread by Aisles et al does tend to make its fans, well, rather stupid.

A flat tax assumes that a dollar’s worth means the same among all income levels. A dollar is worth more to a person who is middle class or lower class.

This is a great simple take down of the flat tax. Could you please help me with an example for completion of this? When I teach people to tell their stories I ask them to create metaphors and analogies because those help people learn and remember. An example that follow the analogy is really helpful too.

I also want a response to the comment, “But I’m taxed at 38 percent now! A flat tax of 15 percent will be less!”

I thought Huffington’s stance was a lot closer to the posters here than Krugman’s. She was also the first to contest Ailes’ decision to cut away from the Obama-thug Q and A, which was ignored by Jabba, but noticed by anyone looking in.

When Ailes made excuses for Beck’s wanton recklessness, he admitted there was “one comment” that should not have been made, but whined, “that kind of thing happens in live TV.” That line should have been pounced upon, but wasn’t.

Reading the writing published under his name, it appears that he favors the flat tax. A flat tax only helps the rich while being extremely hurtful to the rest of Americans. A flat tax assumes that a dollar’s worth means the same among all income levels. A dollar is worth more to a person who is middle class or lower class. A 10 percent flat tax on one million dollars provides $100,000 in revenue for the federal government. That same tax on $30,000 provides $3000. It would seem that the tax has the same result for both taxpayer sets. Not so. For the millionaire $900,000 is left for other personal spending which will certainly cover all of the necessities (and a good many luxuries). For the middle class earner the tax left the individual with $27,000 and a significantly greater challenge. That 10 percent has a far greater impact on the lower end income earner than the higher end.

True, and Ailes’s comment is further discredited as a non sequitur because Krugman never said anything about any American people being stupid. He said they were misinformed.

I know MSNBC has made some attempts to counter Fox (Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews at times), but unfortunately a lot of times they come off as overly partisan, i.e., stooping to the same level as Fox.

What I wish we had was a true counter-Fox network. Something like a TV version of Newshounds.

Beyond that, I think it isn’t stupidity but affiliation – once on board, lots of people bond philosophically with Fox and can’t be persuaded to switch back to reality. But maybe a counter-Fox network could reduce the Fox News indoctrination rate.

Yes, yes I suppose so but you’d be better off listening to Jack Klugman over Paul Krugman.
Listen, I know I’ve not always agreed with you people on each and every issue but I’d like to ask for your help. Today is the last day for nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize. If you can see your way to do so I’d appreciate it if you would nominate me. I realize I’ve not done all that much for humanity but I think I’ve done more than last year’s winner.
I realize I have some stiff competition. Debra Lafave has often been mentioned for her work in education and Rodell Vereen is another name that comes up a lot for his break through work with animals.
I thank you in advance for your consideration.
Mail your nominations to Oslo, Norway.

“He just ignores it, belches up a total non sequitur, then starts spewing Republican talking points.” this of course is what he (and yes, i too chuckled over jabba the ailes) and all the republicans do. they can’t pass a purity test if they can not master this skill.

“the normal journalistic mandate is to undertake critical investigations and objectively report findings to the readers and/or watchers.” the msm, now no more than theater critics, have never met a gop talking point they don’t like. this started during the campaign, when mccain starting losing and has only intensified during this past year. once rush came on the scene and announced the gop strategy of “we want him to fail,” and glenn became more paranoid to such success, the media knew they were on the right track.

of course, stephanpolous is definitely no barack, but what a difference between the president and the republican representatives retreat.

I hope that this is the answer you are looking for.

A flat tax only helps the rich while being extremely hurtful to the rest of Americans. A flat tax assumes that a dollar’s worth means the same among all income levels. A dollar is worth more to a person who is middle class or lower class. A 10 percent flat tax on one million dollars provides $100,000 in revenue for the federal government. That same tax on $30,000 provides $3000. It would seem that the tax has the same result for both taxpayer sets.

Not so. For the millionaire $900,000 is left for other personal spending which will certainly cover all of the necessities (and a good many luxuries). For the middle class earner the tax left the individual with $27,000 and a significantly greater challenge. That 10 percent has a far greater impact on the lower end income earner than the higher end.

Unfortunately Obama has ceded all the ground to right and he has no defense other than college debate theatre.

at least the right does not pretend to act for the people…
they want tax cuts for the rich
and whatever turns on the male caucasian voter

The democrats are vulnerable because they made an excellent case for change and proved to be a collection of ponzi schemers, tax cheats, duplicitous wannabee elitists etc.

Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs with Dotty Oliver’s Mistress of the Misunderstood hosted by Warwick Sabin

That’s exactly what he is arguing. Several years ago FOX won a law suit with that very arguement. Does anyone out there remember the specifics?

Excellent! Thank you!

I mark the beginning of the great decline of American politics as when Fox News went on the air. They really have done a disservice to the country.

You are welcome. You should see how this analysis is viewed on other blog sites. Socialist, communist, Marxist, fascist. Just labels, no thought. The sad thing is that many of those who are barking are, I suspect, the very people who will be decimated by such a tax structure. Those who are leading them know this and do not hesitate to use them. ALA Mr. Beck.

To the author: “beat down” Please – he gave as good as he got.

And Jabba the Ailes? Childish.

Thanks for dropping by, Mrs. Ailes.

Right on.

Nonsense

I, for one, think the Jabba analogy entirely appropriate, except, in this case he was on the defensive. Take some time-out and review Jabba in Return of the Jedi; childish? Would be nice if not so true.

Beck has the highest ratings of all time at five pm. His revenues are highest of all time. Facts people.

BT- You said “I have no idea why Jabba the Ailes decided to appear on “This Week”…” My guess is that he accepted an invitation from the guest host.

Oh yeah. You put your finger on the real tragedy. Obama’s plan is a Republican plan. It’s Mitt Romney’s plan. (Per Krugman and I think Krugman is right.) Where does that leave Progressives? It leaves us speechless and leaderless. Does it matter much if Krugman scores points or Jabba scores points when we have no advocate for change in our corner? None?

I’m thinking Ailes was there to spin why FOX cut the broadcast of BO’s Q&A with the Republicans in Baltimore. Or even to prevent its’ discussion being broached.

Isn’t it interesting that an intellectual economist can take on a conservative with clear simple English and blunt facts, while it seems beyond most Democratic leaders to do so, as if it were all too complicated and scary?

The whole “Progressive” tax that Beck uses is just the kind of BS nonsense that is very very damaging to our country. People who don’t know that they aren’t really taxed on the first X percent of their income don’t get it, but of course it’s not until I did my own taxes and figured out the charts did I understand this.

Please state your sources WITH links to the revenue claim.

If you try and point to the 2010 Q1 earnings statement please note that they do not break out revenue by program.

Yes. I think of it as: taxation means to the wealthy, if it means anything at all, that third yacht or 5th vacation home. To the middle class, it involves paying for their children’s college education, and to the lower income and poor it means food, shelter and health care.

It’s called the diminishing marginal utility of income/wealth. Wherein the marginal utility of the last Dollar accrued isn’t worth as much as the one before it. It’s the same principle as consumption. Consider buying a car, and then another, and another. You can only drive one at a time, the first one will accomplish meeting your needs of transportation, etc. Each additional car you buy provides you less utility than the one before it.

Progressive taxation is fundamentally justifiable because of the combined effects of diminishing marginal utility of income and the fundamental regressiveness of cost-of-living.

The stupidest thing about flat-tax advocacy is that almost nobody argues for a condition of no-exemptions. Meaning they are willing to allow people below a certain level of income to claim a kind of hardship exemption. Now all of a sudden the “flat-tax” is really just a progressive tax that only has two levels of gradation; 0% and X%.

How does one get this rather basic thought through to those who rally against the kind of income tax reform we need? In the Bush years everyone got a tax break (put those wars and that medicare increase on the old national credit card). But the folks at the top got BIG, BIG Breaks. and the folks in the middle got LITTLE Breaks. Now, it is time to pay for the “party” and the wealthy have line up the middle and the lower classes to protest TAXES! Dick Armey and his minions are quite happy to live the lives of millionaires on the backs of those who are just getting by.

Here is where the progressives (the Dems generally and Obama specifically) are not doing what the must do…..education as propaganda (the other side is doing miseducation as propaganda). We need a Beck (only caring, honest and legit).

Ailes says, “wait a minute, the people are not stupid.” Actually, they are thanks to the lies and propaganda of FOX NEWS. The goal of FOX is to misinform, incite and scare the public into not engaging in any critical thinking or reading. Ailes would not have an audience if people were not stupid.

You said it!

I like the college debate theater tie in.. like perhaps GE College Bowl with Obama as team captain.

If Ronald Reagan ended the “Fairness Doctrine” with a stroke of the pen, Why can’t Obama bring it back in the same way?

most urban americans think money is more important than food. i am certain
mr ailes shares that belief.

how stupid is that?

peas!

Krugman actually deserved his Nobel Prize and did something :)

2 reasons, but only 1 counts: At time of Reagan nearly all homes received TV from “broadcasters” that were over the public airwaves. Today only 14% of homes rely upon over the air signal, 86% are cable or satellite.

Key word is “public airwaves.” Cable and Satellite are considered private and therefore minimally controlled by FCC. Cable shows are effectively unregulated.

I was working on proposal for kids’ educational TV series when Reagan did this. It literally gutted kids shows, replacing them with undisguised toy promotion shows like Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers.

The reich-winger Allies:”..the american people aren’t stupid”. Krugman should have interrupted him and told him that he was being disingenuous right there. Krugman never said stupid, he said misinformed, and Allies is acting like he doesn’t know the difference. Krugman should have said fox news is serially disingenuous – this is still a very meager attack compared to what the reich-wing leadership should be getting.

You don’t have to ‘take it to it’s conclusion’ – a court of law has already decided. Search ‘fox news florida’ or something for recent case where it was ruled that fox news does not actually have to tell the truth. According to this ruling, no one does.

Why should Alies care if his stock goes down? As long as the propaganda goes out..

Also, history shows (per thom hartmann) that when you have a top tax bracket over 50 percent, you never have bubbles, but below 50, you always do. During Eisenhower years, top bracket got a 90 percent haircut. It also helps prevent too much power accumulating in too few hands. The top earners benefit significantly more from the ‘commons’ that others, and so should contribute more.

We can’t let propaganda go unanswered, cable or air, it’s still bandwidth and it still the public ‘commons’ – it belongs (or should belong) to us all in some way. Maybe outright ownership or not, we (the people) must have some control.

example of why i dislike our side….

it’s NOT a thing of beauty. it was a mild poke of reality.

these fuckers need a giant sized enema dose of reality. i want the truth forced up the asses of these corrupt, greedy son of a bitches.

that would be a thing of beauty.

this is just another meaningless moment in the life of status quo.

No disagreement from me that communications are a commons. Thom Hartman and I are in strong agreement. But that was the law that was passed and how Reagan managed to eviscerate it.

I should like to add something I missed yesterday: “Deliberate misinformation” has a name – disinformation. This is what the Soviets did, creating false information specifically to disinform the public.

FauxNoise isn’t doing this by accident. It is planned, premeditated and false.