Remember how the neocons and torture lovers were trying to justify waterboarding by saying that it saved lives because it got a high-level icky terrorist, Abu Zubaydah, to provide “actionable intelligence”? Just like they’d claimed with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
We already knew it was horsepucky in Mohammed’s case, but now it’s been confirmed well beyond any reasonable doubt in Zubaydah’s — and by the very man, John Kiriakou, who had made the initial, much-trumpeted claim to ABC News that it worked on Zubaydah:
Well, it’s official now: John Kiriakou, the former CIA operative who affirmed claims that waterboarding quickly unloosed the tongues of hard-core terrorists, says he didn’t know what he was talking about.
[...]
On the next-to-last page of a new memoir, The Reluctant Spy: My Secret Life in the CIA’s War on Terror (written with Michael Ruby), Kiriakou now rather off handedly admits that he basically made it all up.
“What I told Brian Ross in late 2007 was wrong on a couple counts,” he writes. “I suggested that Abu Zubaydah had lasted only thirty or thirty-five seconds during his waterboarding before he begged his interrogators to stop; after that, I said he opened up and gave the agency actionable intelligence.”
But never mind, he says now.
“I wasn’t there when the interrogation took place; instead, I relied on what I’d heard and read inside the agency at the time.”
In a word, it was hearsay, water-cooler talk.
“Now we know,” Kiriakou goes on, “that Zubaydah was waterboarded eighty-three times in a single month, raising questions about how much useful information he actually supplied.”
Indeed we do now know that Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times — and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times — in the space of a single month, thanks to a certain Marcy Wheeler. In both cases, the “need” to endlessly repeat the torture raised questions about its effectiveness in providing genuinely accurate, much less useful, information; as US Navy veteran Jesse Ventura, who underwent the procedure as part of his SEAL training, said on Larry King Live: “You give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney, and one hour, and I’ll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.” But I digress:
… Kiriakou adds that he didn’t have any first hand knowledge of anything relating to CIA torture routines, and still doesn’t. And he claims that the disinformation he helped spread was a CIA dirty trick: “In retrospect, it was a valuable lesson in how the CIA uses the fine arts of deception even among its own.”
And an equally valuable lesson in how the conservative media operates.



51 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
What have we become?
A nation of liars…run by liars…
Sadly true…as if telling the truth is not really a value, or even expected, anymore. How sad.
So why would anyone ever believe the CIA? Even before this particular “deception.” WMDs anyone? Can’t count the number of lies the CIA has originated in the name of awful U.S. foreign policy. Twas ever thus.
Ever? That’s a long time…..
So can the Press get a comment from Dick Cheney or one of his daughters? Or will they only appear on tv if No Tough Questions are asked?
Talk about liars….Wow.
Any bets who ordered this guy to lie? Lies like this do not come about because your funnin somebody this lie had a purpose. I’m betting Dick or Karl.
I wonder if the British will ask Tony about this?
Monica Crowley is such a Reichwing tool…!
I wonder if Jon Yoo knew this supposedly he had access to all the torture information when he wrote to justify torture. I wonder what he thinks now in light of this evidence.
What did she do now? Isn’t she getting to old to be a blond on Fox?
Definitely, Tricky Dick… He handled the true dark side affairs, Turd Blossom handled the political side…!
That last link had Monica spouting off on McLaughlin Group that KLM’s waterboarding provided actionable intel…!
*heh* How about since it’s very inception…! ;-)
http://mediamatters.org/research/201001100010
We argue all the time all the GOPers however all have the same answer for the tough questions. Coincidence I think not collusion Yes and its time we did something about it.
Americans are not served by a propaganda network lets pull some FCC licenses.
I used to like the McLaughlin Group then I found blogs.
McLame always talks like we should have waterboarded the underpants bomber. “He sang like a bird until we let him lawyer up.” Does he have some idea of what more could we have learned from this low-level guy than what was obtained by civil authorities?
I suppose they have been using OBL’s latest to discredit global warming? Where he says “no more bombing?”
…all the GOPers however all have the same answer for the tough questions.
Which is not to say that those answers have anything to do with the truth….
Of course they don’t need answers/lies when things are going well.
Aloha, jay…! How’s your son doing…?
Of course we’ve always know that it doesn’t work, but it doesn’t matter to them. They like the very idea of torture. Especially dark-skinned Muslims.
Hiya CTut!
He’s doing great. Called earlier this week to say that he’d been transferred to First Cav; then he called back and said No, it’s gonna be 3rd ACR; then he texted that his Battalion Commander put the kibosh on all of that. He’s staying where he is, with the (informal) order to just get his academic stuff going.
He got a Letter of Assurance for West Point – but he’s probably gonna end up at Cornell.
makes dad happy.
I’ll bet…! Safe and sound Stateside…! 3rd ACR and 1st Cav are probably working on their 5th or 6th rotations through Iraq…!
good old jesse ventura – I remember him on The View talking about water boarding, which he had experienced in some way or another during his Navy SEAL stuff – ‘give me a waterboard, 1 hour, and dick cheney, and I’ll have him confess to anything’ or something close — oh, by the way, he was making a point that the United States should NOT torture, cuz we have to be better than ‘them’, or, what do we stand for?
while ventura definitely has some screws lose, compared to the pathetic sell out pieces of DC shit AND, the fascists … I’d vote for him, I’m so goddam fed up.
like it would be worse?
rmm.
Given the latest revelation from John Kiriakou the GOP should back away from torture now unless they want people to start thinking they enjoy torturing dark skinned Muslims.
So here’s a simple Q. Why did Brian Ross not ask Kiriakou whether he had witnessed the waterboarding first hand?
That is wonderful. Bet there’s a big smile on Dad’s face. Congrats.
yep – a big part of him wants to go downrange, but Cornell sounds a lot safer to me. He’s going up to visit West Point in about a week – Cornell two or three weeks after.
thank you.
Here’s a good shot of Gemini firing off the laser…!
I’d like for you all to do a little thought experiment. You’re a terrorist and you know where the big bomb is hidden. It will kill a 100,000 people. Unfortunately you’re captured by the US. Dick Cheney comes in with a couple CIA agents and tells you you are going to be waterboarded if you don’t spill the beans in the next 15 minutes and then they leave the room.
What are you going to do?
Personally I’d tell them what they want to know before they even got out of the room and I’m sure most of you would too. A true terrorist might hold out a bit, but not for very long.
Torture is dirty business. No question about it. But to simply send these detainees back to their original country to start plotting against us all over again doesn’t make a lot of sense either.
Being nice guys to these people doesn’t work.
PS-A recent poll showed 78% of Americans favor waterboarding terrorists.
With any luck, in 4 years time we’ll be outta Iraq and Afghanistan…! ;-)
Such good news…you must be very proud. Good luck to your son.
You need to seriously stop watching 24, dood…! There’s never been a ‘ticking time bomb’ scenario… Except in some Hollywood writer’s head…! Get a grip on reality…!
you’re ridiculous. trying to put yourself into the mind of someone who wants to kill innocent people is as f’king DUMB as trying to put yourself into the mind of someone who likes banging heroin or the mind of someone who wants to commit suicide –
IF you thought like them, THEN you’d be trying to kill innocents / banging dope / trying to kill yourself.
turn off “24″ , take off your jack bauer cape, and unload some of the 30 round magazines.
rmm.
Actually in the ticking bomb scenario described, all the incentive is for the potential torturee to tell them the wrong info to get them running around like headless chickens until the bomb goes off. So he doesn’t get tortured then, and there is no ticking bomb excuse to torture him later. Of couse, torture is not about getting info, except false info like there’s a link between SH & AQ, or SH has WMDs. Torture is mostly about revenge. So the protagonist in the ticking bomb scenario is gonna get tortured now or later, probably both, no matter what he sez.
Just how in a ticking time bomb scenario do you verify the information is true before the bomb goes off?
Better answer than mine I like it:)
You might check out how to do the ticking bomb interrogation right, as on the award winning episode of Criminal Minds.
The main principles of torture are pretty simple. It was easy to learn about it when it was revealed that the U.S. is doing it.
I never did leave nothing to the Tinman.
-G
By the way, you are applying logic to what your side always calls evil terrorists without regard for humanity and a desire to die for their cause.
You know the saddest part about this whole torture thing? It’s been going on for decades, and it takes a brash corrupt Rethuglican administration to wake people the hell up. That’s the saddest part. This crap under different names has been going on forever. Except it was called different things, and people ignored it. Under Clinton, it was called Extraordinary Rendition, and under Obama, it continues unabated. Does anyone scream? Why not? There are calls for justice rightfully on the Bush Admin., but when it comes to Obama, or even back to Clinton? Nothing. Anti-war demonstrations were everywhere while Bush was Prez. Where are they now? Nowhere. Guess now that there is a D in the Whitehouse, those surgical predator drone strikes are all justified as well, yes? How about Gitmo? Oh ya, it isn’t closed down either. How about all those other torture bases in the MidEast? Oh ya, none of them are closed down either. But barely a mention anymore online, as people are stuck on the health insurance carrot and stick scam, and the latest on Michelle’s gracious fashion stylings. It’s sad. Even the daily killings and bombings in Iraq are now delegated to the back pages, a footnote that is not important. Know why there will be no torture prosecutions? Because it would implicate Presidents, probably all presidents, from the past, and in the future.
The trial of KSM will be held in a military tribunal.
I think they realize his brain is mush. Guess all that waterboarding
isn’t quite as harmless as they swore it was. A “minor” side effect from a lack of oxygen oourtesy of our goosestepping caretakers. Probably shouldn’t be advertised in the heart of NYC.
The stupid excuse about not giving him a platform is similar to a totalitarian state. There’s always something to hide. The ramped up secrecy and flagrant corruption has destroyed us. It’s also given
THEM the platform to lie about everything. Starting with Cheney’s Secret Energy policy; they shrugged it off and jumped on board. Once again we can thank our New World Order, Bilderberg, Bohemian Grove, Trilateral Commission underworld for infiltrating our judicial system. Since then, secrecy and lies have gone into overdrive.
Shit, I’ll bet KSM can’t even put together a full sentence without losing his train of thought. Was it after the 57th or 145th waterboarding that he confessed? Or, hearing the screams of his children being raped? Naturally, the ugly truth can’t be used in our courts since torture is illegal in the US, which makes any trial for KSM legal blasphemy.
More to the point, Holder already announced they’re gonna make sure he’s found guilty. OK, fine. Then save the money and spare us the high profile bullshit.
“24″ fans approve of waterboarding. The show isn’t that popular.
Talk to any war veteran about America waterboarding people and they’re aghast.
Polls are bullshit. And I’m not buying that one for a second.
“Indeed we do now know that Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times — and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times — in the space of a single month, thanks to a certain Marcy Wheeler. ” Our dear Marcy’s the actual over-the-top torturer who did this?!? But, but…
I know, PW, you meant “Thanks to a certain Marcy Wheeler, we do now know that Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times — and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times — in the space of a single month.” Just re-ordering for clarification.
And yes, “24″ fans are bogus; armchair voyeur “let’s pretend we’re True Patriots with Urgency” vigilantes. Common sense, repercussions, context and follow-through are not on the menu.
Wall there ya gots it, is iz proof we ain’t no notsies rait? RAIT? lol
Did anyone hear Susan Collins’s “response” to Obama’s weekly address? All about how unconscionable that the DOJ extended Miranda rights to the Christmas day bomber. Guess she didn’t take anything away from Obama’s Q&A yesterday. Or maybe she just agrees with the SC that only foreign corporations should have the rights of American citizens.
If Jesse had a little less ego and a little more empathy and bravery (he already has the moral compass, he just has to be more courageous in using it), he would not only still be Minnesota’s governor, he’d be ranked up there with Floyd Olson as the greatest governor our state ever had.
Thanks! That was a sentence I’d been rewriting about twenty-odd times. Should have gone for a twenty-first.