Drive by from my iPhone! And zed!

McLame: Can’t have no spending freeze on warz.

Van Hollen on WashJournal; “majority is 40 votes, that is Bernie Madoff math’

Gibbs on Early news; “now they have 41 votes, the republicans have to take responsibility for running the country’

While the rethugs are in their feeding frenzy over the red meat he’s throwing them, he can dismantle the CIA and JSOC while they aren’t watching.

Who is giving the GOP response to the State of the Union?

Bank Fee to get bank bailout money back we need more Press on this.

Obama and his team of political advisors are participating in a piece of kabuki theater here to appease voters who are concerned about the explosion of government spending and a federal deficit that will burden taxpayers for generations. The irresponsibility of the Bush years has been dwarfed by the actions of this administration.

This ‘freeze’ is a cynical, purely political move that yet again shows how this administration is deaf to the concerns of the large majority of Americans who want fewer government services and less government interference in our social and economic lives.

The economic policies of President Obama are not working. They are no good. But instead of taking the the people who oppose Obamanomics seriously, this administration and its supporters continue to believe that they are all opportunistic Republicans or mis-informed voters bamboozled by special interests.

Our country is stuck in a long-term recession whose causes are largely the result of rotten government policies (inflating the housing bubble, showering the economy with cheap money, etc.) and whose length has been prolonged by rotten government responses that have kept markets from finding their true bottom while scaring businessess away from getting on with random acts of recovery.

The true state of the union is not one of anger but one of fear of “What will Obama do next?”

Banks are not lending, companies are not hiring, because they are afraid of what Obama will do next. The private sector, the job and wealth creators of this country are paralyzed with fear. Fear of onerous taxes, new health care burdens, and the consequences of the recently declared war on ‘fat cat’ bankers by the president.

Seniors are afraid they will be deprived of medical treatment. Young voters are afraid they are going to be forced to buy health insurance they don’t think they need. Everywhere, Americans are afraid they’re not going to find work, and won’t be able to afford a house.

This so-called ‘spending freeze’ is a short-term fix for a long-term drop in popularity for the President’s agenda that will not ally our fears and will do little to win back the trust of political independents who placed Obama in office 14 months ago.

That’s the best part.

Morning all.
New Virginia governer McDonald will give the response

Mornin’, BT, pups

Chain Gang Charlie Crist gave corporations in FL another tax break yesterday, saying it would promote job creation. Yeah, right. FL has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. Corporations aren’t going to hire more people, they’re gonna pay their executives more money. It won’t be long and the only tax revenue FL will have will be sales taxes, which have exemptions on stuff like ostrich feed for one guy who wanted to raise ostriches and went bust, property taxes and the tax tourists pay on hotel rooms. If it’s tourist season, why cain’t we shoot ‘em?

The White House needs to adopt the “George Castanza Rule”. Whatever they think they should do, do the opposite.

From an economic illiterate, it seems to me that Obama has again failed at MESSAGING. Interesting read at Gooznews this morning that explain what might be good about a freeze. http://www.gooznews.com For example, Here’s Two Agencies That Could Stand a Temporary Freeze
by GoozNews ~ 26 Jan 2010 07:17pm
The Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health.

Regulatory agencies (FDA,NIH) [might benefit by pausing] to catch it’s breath, train the new people who’ve come on board, and evaluate the new programs put in place.

Rachel did a good job defending her position . . . but if the administration had done a better messaging job (NOT calling their proposal a freeze) this particular ‘shiny object’ might have been moved to the back burner.

The ostriches or the tourists?
Good Morning.

Aren’t you leaving out the boost drug traffickers give to the FL economy?

Mornin’ demi. It’s not widely known, but ostrich meat is the tastiest thing going.

Obama will also ‘freeze’ the pay of roughly 1200 WH employees who make $100,000 or more. More kabuki.

The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.

Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession’s first 18 months — and that’s before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.

Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.

Silliness.

Do you really think Americans don’t want protection from lethal food, water, air, products, and protection from wives and daughters being raped every time they leave home?

And No Social Security ?

Good luck with the that looney sales pitch.

The real problems are that Americans want everything, they just want someone else to pay for it AND the politicians fight each other to get Americans as much as they want, but don’t have the collective courage to ask someone to foot the bills.

Care must be exercised if ’tis ostriches, as word has it that the entire Democratic Party is behaving like the ostriches of legend, you know, with their heads buried in the sand and their but-but-butts in the air, as they wait for the danger to pass them by.

Good morning, all.

DW

Thank you

Heh, I know quite a few of the smugglers from the 70s. Most of ‘em learned from the experience of the Steinhatchee Seven and didn’t blow their dust on extravagance. My friend BK, a former fisherman, never worked a day after he quit smuggling. Lived a simple life and gave money to a lot of causes. Ever been in a closet filled with stacks of hundred dollar bills?

Ostrich meat in FL was a loser.

McDonnell’s 1989 thesis for Regent University[36] was a 93-page document titled The Republican Party’s Vision for the Family: The Compelling Issue of The Decade. The document explored the rise in the numbers of divorces and illegitimate births, and examined public policies that may have contributed to that increase and proposed solutions.
The document gained attention in the campaign because it outlined a 15-point conservative agenda, including 10 points McDonnell pursued during his years in the General Assembly, according to press analysis.[37] This agenda includes opposition to abortion and support for school vouchers, and tax policies that favor heterosexual families. In the work, McDonnell argues for covenant marriage, a “legally distinct type of marriage intended to make it more difficult to obtain a divorce”.[38]
In his thesis, McDonnell said “government policy should favor married couples over ‘cohabitators, homosexuals or fornicators.’”[39] McDonnell also “described working women and feminists as ‘detrimental’ to the family.”[39] McDonnell also “criticized a landmark 1965 Supreme Court decision” which legalized the use of contraceptives by married couples. In the thesis, McDonnell argued for the use of government intervention on societal issues, writing that “man’s basic nature is inclined towards evil, and when the exercise of liberty takes the shape of pornography, drug abuse, or homosexuality, the government must restrain, punish, and deter.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

The bad economy is the GOP’s best issue but they put up a Family Values person? Are the GOP and the Dems trying to throw the next election?

You are very clever this am. I haven’t had my coffee yet.

Michael Steele called, he needs your SSN for the 1099.

Do not be ridiculous. Where do I advocate for NO government services or protections?

You negate the validity for your arguments when you engage in absolutes.

Try again.

Again, ignore libertarian leaning and independents at your own peril.

Democrats must take the American people seriously, by acknowledging that their differences of opinion on economic policy spring from a genuine place.

And he wasn’t asked by the defense to testify as an Expert in the Prop 8 case?

This ‘revelation’ will help the Obama as much as it helped Deeds.

If they could have come up with a clever gimmick to include it in the McDonald’s menu, it might have done well.

Well, that’s a little misleading. What you’re seeing in terms of federal employment is that the upper level employees are hanging on to their jobs, while the lower level employees are being cut. I’ve seen this in state and federal agencies. In general the ones I’ve seen are woefully understaffed and it’s hard to get anything done when you have “too many chiefs and not enough Indians.”

“man’s basic nature is inclined towards evil, and when the exercise of liberty takes the shape of pornography, drug abuse, or homosexuality, the government must restrain, punish, and deter.”

Is that what they are teaching at Catholic Universities these days? I think a Notre Dame Grad would be better informed…that JC died for our sins how can man be inclined to evil then?
Any of the Theologians at the Lake awake yet this level of Crazy is beyond me. I’m pretty sure this is not Catholic thought.

That twisted notion popped unbiden into my wee brain late last evening, demi, as Eli explained that the Dims couldn’t hear us because they are all in a tunnel (which explains why the Squirrel Hill Tunnel is always backed up), but then, I got to thinking what those Dims would all be doing, they wouldn’t be comparing notes, they’d just each feel personally abused by the unappreciative public, so rather than sulk, I imagine they would just zone out and rest their exhausted little heads.

It takes a lot of work to ignore reality even if your never personally encounter it – you still know its out there … somewhere … and who knows, it just might bite.

DW

Your right that is weird normally any politician loves the chance to make headlines. And just how many GOPers did a thesis on this subject Bob might be the best Academic the GOP has on this subject.

You’ll love this guy. His grasp of reality is tenuous at best. Local dude, calls into the community radio station on almost every talk show. Never has an opinion of his own, just repeats what others say and is hawt for Alex Jones.

Family Values as embodied by the Great Republic Leader Limpy Limbaugh?

Most of these people have no clue. I had a bunch of buddies working the rigs off Louisiana and you know what that meant.

Same is true here. They fire all the low wage maintenance folks and clerks so one spends the day at county/state offices trying to get something simple accomplished.

MSNBC reporting O’Keeffe is twittering the truth will set him free. The reporter said no, I think it was the bail that set him free.

Keep on twitterin’, O’Keeffe…

The real problems are that Americans want everything, they just want someone else to pay for it AND the politicians fight each other to get Americans as much as they want, but don’t have the collective courage to ask someone to foot the bills.

Are you truly ignorant to the FACT that virtually all individual income tax is paid by top half of income earners?

A majority of Americans want the federal, state and local governments to do the exact same thing that they have had to do during this recession: reduce their bureaucracies and learn to live within their means.

No theologian and I’m not up on Catholicism at all, but that sounds very Fundamentalist to me. But, I think that there are loonies in all the denominations.
I also think that repression creates some weird twisty behavior…ie. diapers and wide stances and such things.

Made enough money to buy Miami
But I pissed it away so fast

never meant to last

I find it interesting that you cannot address my points, but rather engage in deflection.

Can’t you debate SouthernDragon?

We all ready had Libertarian no regulation government of the banking sector under Bush. That is until the Free Markets can regulate themselves theory guys suddenly all became Corporate Welfare Socialism (but only for for the Rich types ) over night.
Now that Obama wants the banks to pay it back the Libertarians suddenly are all no new taxes. Face it we want the money back Obama will have more trouble from our side if he does not get that money back.

Back in the early 70′s when I was an authentic hippie, I either heard or read Alan Watts describing a mindset where a person would turn seeing bags in the road to seeing dead cats. Similar something?

Here’s hoping he looks every bit as ridiculous tonight as what his wiki shows him to be. I have to miss the live SOTU because I’ll be at work. But, I bet it’ll be talked about when I get home.

The Pet Shop

“I’d like to register a complaint.”

“A complaint?”

“Yes. I bought this donkey not half an hour ago in this very boutique.”

“What’s wrong with it?”

“It’s dead.”

“It’s not dead, it’s resting.”

“It’s not resting, it’s dead.”

“See there, it moved.”

“You kicked it.”

“Beautiful donkey your Cheyenne Gray. Lovely pelt.”

“The pelt don’t enter into it. You sold me a dead donkey.”

“He’s pining.”

“Pining? He’s not pining. He’s dead. He is no more. He’s slipped this mortal coil. He’s joined the great invisible. This is an ex-donkey.”

“He’s pining.”

“What’s he pining about?”

“He used to be the majority, no more. Was 60, now 59″

“But the opposition only has 41.”

(Pointing at the supine donkey) “Tell that to him.”

The donkey suddenly raises his head, regards the two men, then slumps back onto the floor.

“See, he’s not dead.”

“He thinks he is.”

“Tell you what he needs, a spending freeze! That’ll put some life back in him.”

“A spending freeze in the middle of a recession? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.”

“Tell you what, I’ve got a dead elephant that thinks it’s alive. What do you say?”

“Does it talk?”

“Not exactly. Makes a lot of noise though.”

“Hmmm. Let me think about it”

I have no intention of “debating” you. I disagree with almost all of your “points,” have read them since you came here and am not going to waste my time with them. xin loi

This so-called ’spending freeze’ is a short-term fix for a long-term drop in popularity for the President’s agenda that will not ally our fears and will do little to win back the trust of political independents who placed Obama in office 14 months ago.

Obama is reading the public the way an enabler reads an addict. They ask for cocaine? Give it to them. Still craving something? How about a little Meth? The government is too big? Fine. Let’s cut off your social security.

Any parent will tell you that you don’t give the child the toy from the grocery store. You take him home and feed him… the hunger that was making him restless.

Some leaders have an understanding of what the country needs from its government. FDR, Kennedy, Lincoln etc. This bunch hasn’t a clue.

Didn’t FDR tax like 90% of income for the rich and that got us out of the Great Depression, won us WW2 and set the stage for the Post war boom? Government apparently can manage the economy better than Private Enterprise:)
Bush deregulated and cut taxes but couldn’t beat Iraq and Afghanistan while FDR beat Germany and Japan in less time.
The Libertarian case rests on what facts exactly besides the Mantras you repeat?

That’s what I’m talkin bout! Lima Charlie big dude!

Again, ignore libertarian leaning and independents at your own peril.

Nothing personal .Libertarians should be jailed, or if not that shunned. What they have ingested is corruption.

Where did you read that BS?

His mother, Emma, worked at Mount Vernon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

McDonnell also “described working women and feminists as ‘detrimental’ to the family.

Folks I think this begs allot of questions.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4,374

US KIA Afghanistan: 972

Iraki and Afghan casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2010: 3,224

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

I remember several WWII vets telling me that when they liberated the concentration camps the ” … bodies were stacked like firewood, in fact that’s what some of us thought they were, at first …”

Shock of that magnitude is one thing, deliberate and continuing unwillingness to confront human suffering and despair is pathological.

And that is precisely where we are at.

Let us turn catastrophe into full-fledged disaster.

Thus: Disaster Politics.

Beautifully well done davidd.

Python would be proud of ya.

DW

Namaste, SD

I think I like the image of SD’s friends closet with stacks of 100 dollar bills better.
If things get much worse, I might have to dig a hole in my back yard.

Catholics believe that man is born with the stain of ‘original sin’, a stain that cannot be removed from humanity…but forgiven. Man is also born with a ‘free will’ to choose to live life as one sees fit.

All civilized societies seek to put limits on behavior.

Most excellent.

page 33: “The [Family Protection Act of 1981] provided for a variety of traditional family support measures such as a restriction of federal funds for abortion, a restraint of federal interference with state statutes pertaining to child abuse,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bob_McDonnell

My bols This is from the discussion section of the Wiki page. Why *cough* how is restraining federal interference with state statutes pertaining to child abuse, a family value?

J.C died for our sins I remember that much from Sunday School. Do you have a link?

Don’t dig too deeply or you’ll end up in China.

Sorry my imagery is darkly today,demi, must be anticipation of a rousing speech this evening.

Someone, somewhere, said that we are all going to be surprised.

I’m getting a distinct sinking feeling.

Again, I am not advocating that banks do not need to be regulated, only that the populist tone he has chosen to adopt for political gain has created a climate of fear that does little to alleviate the fearful, paralyzed private sector that is responsible for creating jobs and wealth.

The government cannot create prosperity, at best it can only enable it. How? IMO mostly by establishing a set of simple rules and getting the hell out of the way.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

It’s all rather simple, isn’t it?

No link just a lifetime of basic Catholic teaching.

“For example, every level of government should statutorily and procedurally prefer married couples over cohabitators, homosexuals, or fornicators. The cost of sin should fall on the sinner not the taxpayer.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bob_McDonnell

He is pro discrimination based on non straight married people? He knows his is the party of fornicators who wear diapers, go to the Dominican Republic with Viagra, pick up Cops in Bathrooms, Rush and Newt between them have more EX’s than I can recall right now.
Never mind Mark Sanford and Sen Ensign.

That’s exactly the image I was going for. Trying to be an ostrich and then waking up in a life run by the Chinese.
I can’t decide if I rather be surprised by the speech or hear what I expect him to say. I don’t want to be afraid, butt, butt, butt it’s difficult not to be.

I’ll take FDR over any other President we ever had in an economic crisis.

In another article, Van Jones, an administrator has stated, “Many of us held positions as college students that we don’t hold as adults. I certainly did. If everyone who was a communist in college were still a communist, then the Communist Party would have stood a good chance of winning the last election.” as a justification for keeping content out of said article. Is this “it was such a long time ago that it doesn’t matter” policy being applied fairly? If so, any and all references to a university thesis need to be removed, or conversely, the Van Jones article needs more content added. Take your pick administrators. You are compelled to act one way or another, and are not above NPOV standards. 68.84.6.98 (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Mr. McDonnell wasn’t really “in college” when he wrote this, which might imply some youthful academic flight of fancy; rather, he was in his mid-thirties, already had two degrees, one from Notre Dame and another from Boston University, and was just beginning his political career when he wrote this thesis in partial fulfillment of his Master’s and law degree at what was then the Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) University (now Regent).–

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bob_McDonnell

My bold

Please, I am not a ‘Libertarian’ but ‘libertarian leaning’. Again, I find attacks on the messengers a very ineffective debating technique that does little to inform or persuade.

I know that many American share my viewpoint and to dismiss them, demean or demonize them will do little to collectively solve the problems we face. The far-right and far-left will never become the middle, where all politics are possible, without tolerance and respect for the ideas and opinions of others. Wasn’t that Obama’s message?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

Jeri Thompson, wife of former senator Fred Thompson, speaks with Virginia Attorney Gen Bob McDonnell

No photo of the wife or anyone else but himself of course except for a photo of him with Law and Order’s Fred Thompson’s wife talking?

snark.

I read the blogs and comments here at FDL because I happen to agree with much of what they say re: TARP, bailouts and the corruption of DC/Wall Street corridor. I share your disappointment with Obama over the wars as well.

I think Obama is little more than an opportunistic politician who is more concerned with consolidating and centralizing power in DC for the benefit of himself and his special brand of Chicago-style ‘crony captialism’

I just do not have faith in the technocratic Keynesian central planners who seek greater control over the private sector for the ‘common good.’

Show links and polls to show how big you support is on certain issues. State your arguments and give examples do not expect a new idea to win instant friends, do not expect that your ideas are a lightning rod for discussion/argument.
Make a case and take your time doing it.

From an ABC News/Washington Post poll of a 1,083 American adults taken over January 12-15:

The poll asked: “Generally speaking, would you say you favor smaller government with fewer services, or larger government with more services?”

Fifty-eight percent said they favor a smaller government with fewer services, and only 38 percent said they favor a larger government with more services.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_011610.html

A majority of Americans oppose the economic stimulus program, according to a new national poll.

Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Sunday say they oppose the stimulus package, with 42 percent supporting it.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/24/cnn-poll-56-percent-oppose-stimulus-program/

:-)

Do you really think that trying to demonize and smear Bob McDonnell is going to help advance and increase support for progressive Dem policies? This has been tried at every opportunity and it is not working with anyone outside of the most devoted MSNBC viewers.

P.S. Even my elementary school age daughter knows wikipedia is not an accurate source of information. Most schools do not recognize it as credible and will not allow it as a legitimate source for assignments.

Again, I am not advocating that banks do not need to be regulated, only that the populist tone he has chosen to adopt for political gain has created a climate of fear that does little to alleviate the fearful, paralyzed private sector that is responsible for creating jobs and wealth.

Many of the folks here think Obama has not gone Left enough and thats why we are mad at him. The Private sector creates jobs but living standards for workers have been dropping since the 70′s even as the number of billionaires increased society has to make choices about wealth.
We can turn into Mexico a country with no middle class high crime and a few very rich people Carlos Slim third richest guy in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim

Or we can return to the FDR based prosperity that turned America after WW 2 into the greatest economy in the world.
The less we tax the rich the more we deregulate the poorer the average person gets.

Better:)

I’m no political guru–and I haven’t read all the comments in this section, but my general opinion is that the administration is doing this spending freeze for two reasons.

1. To appeases all the deficit hawks and

2. In the name of bipartisianship.

What the Administration is failing to do is, again, is read the tea leaves correctly. In the last 8 years–there was ABSOLUTELY no bipartisianship–that I could speak of–so the Right made that much MORE headway on THEIR agenda. Now that we have a new administration, they are still giving AWAY TOO MUCH on their compromises in the name of “bipartisianship”.

The administration is still gonna get slammed by the right, and Obama’s still gonna get slammed by the Lefties. But he is GIVING AWAY TOO much of what little ground the left still has. A better compromise on a spending freeze would have been to freeze $125 billion in military spending (not veterans, or their health/welfare) and $125 billion in domestic spending freezes.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not for ANY spending freeze in domestic programs, but what are the pro-war, pro-right, military industrial fanantics throwing into the pot for this compromise? Obama is too weak to take any heat from the military industrial complex. He can take it from both sides, but not them. This is where he needs to lead.

Sorry, OT. Things, someone was looking for you on one of the late night threads (which I read this morning). Said they hadn’t “seen” you around much. I see you a lot on the morning threads, but it was too late to respond to whomever was looking for you.

One of the all time great songs – and often stated by the man as his favorite of his songs.

I know, I just happen to be of a more moderate ilk.

Capitalism is not perfect and as I said government does play a role, but it is widely known that that a dollar increase in government spending results in no more (and almost certainly less) than a dollar increase in economic activity. Finding a balance is key, but it is most difficult when power is centralized in DC and the government props up and favors ‘too big too fail corporations’.

http://reason.com/archives/2009/10/19/the-myth-of-the-multiplier

My Mom worked he seems to have no problem demonizing her. And yes it works everytime we show a GOPer doing demonizing working Women, Gays, dark People in order to get votes it gets our base motivated why do you think Obama who never attacks the GOP has such high approval ratings.
1) he doesn’t go negative much
2) We tell our side what the GOP is saying

There will be no more lies about Reagan’s imaginary Caddy Driving Welfare Queen from Chicago buying steaks with Welfare checks without the Left fact checking and spreading the results of that story nation wide.

Think George Allen and the word Macaca

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(U.S._politician)

Well and good, indie.

You might be surprised to learn that I agree with your cogent assessments of some things, particularly your concern that right and left too quickly dismiss each other as beyond the pale.

It works both ways.

But your solutions, indie, suggest you are a simple Randian whose world view requires that John Galt sweep us all off our feet and greed is to be unfettered as the ultimate Capitalistic good.

Your belief in the unseen hand is touching, but surely you know that Adam Smith himself spoke aqgainst the notion of “devil take the hindmost”

Perhaps you subscribe to the Puritan Ethic?

What, in your world view, constrains the sociopath or violence generally when the clever corrupt a system utterly and it all falls to ruin.

Why do you imagine societies fail?

As a rugged individualist, do you even care?

Is it about you?

Or about ALL of US?

Political controversy ensued following remarks Lott made on December 5, 2002 at the 100th birthday party of Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina. Thurmond ran for President of the United States in 1948 on the Dixiecrat (or States’ Rights) ticket. Lott said: “When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over the years, either.”[3]
Thurmond had based his presidential campaign largely on an explicit racial segregation platform. Lott had attracted controversy before in issues relating to civil rights. As a Congressman, he voted against renewal of the Voting Rights Act, voted against the continuation of the Civil Rights Act and opposed making Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday a federal holiday.[4] The Washington Post reported that Lott had made similar comments about Thurmond’s candidacy in a 1980 rally.[5] Lott gave an interview with Black Entertainment Television explaining himself and repudiating Thurmond’s former views.[6]
Lott resigned as Senate Republican Leader on December 20, 2002. Bill Frist of Tennessee was later elected to the leadership position. In the book Free Culture, Lawrence Lessig argues that Lott’s resignation would not have occurred had it not been for the effect of Internet blogs. He says that though the story “disappear[ed] from the mainstream press within forty-eight hours”, “bloggers kept researching the story” until, “[f]inally, the story broke back into the mainstream press.” [7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Lott#Resignation

My bold Ex Senate Leader trent Lott gave us Lefty Bloggers the Cred for his scalp.

Krugman definitely is discouraged…

A Tale of Two SOTUs

I am feeling the same way…

Can someone please comment on 79. I’m just interested inwhat everybody thinks. I think.

Who was it msmolly should I check the late late nite thread or just late nite?

I think I agree, archiebird. Except I would call it unnecessary appeasement. He should be strong and decisive and make the case for what probably will be some unpopular decisions. Instead, he is continuing the “no guts, no glory” approach, and littering the terrain with bright shiny objects he hopes will distract from his woeful performance to date.

Sorry, I don’t remember. I was skimming through both. I think Late Night, and it was early in whichever one it was, because I didn’t read all the way through either one.

Whoever it was didn’t have anything necessarily specific, just that he/she hadn’t seen you around much.

Do you really think that trying to demonize and smear Bob McDonnell is going to help advance and increase support for progressive Dem policies?

Bob picked his college thesis I didn’t am I lying in my reporting on his thesis? Are not Family Values a concern for a politician? Should I tell my Sister to burn her thesis for shame?

Thanks I’ll get a smoke and check late nite msmolly :)

I agree, unnecessary appeasement, all the way. And for what? Why can’t the USIMC give a little? Those people, the contractors, the generals, the defense suppliers,everybody in that sector of government needs to get looked at and replaced.

1. To appeases all the deficit hawks and

Its in the Name only ending the war that would really help the deficit, raising taxes would help, cutting Social Security and Medicare ok maybe they might be planning that.

2. In the name of bipartisianship.

Agreed but no matter what they do the GOP won’t shine on them

but what are the pro-war, pro-right, military industrial fanantics throwing into the pot for this compromise? Obama is too weak to take any heat from the military industrial complex. He can take it from both sides, but not them. This is where he needs to lead.

Are you saying that Obama can’t take on the military industrial complex but that is where he needs to lead?
If so I agree and if he would charge I would follow.

I agree with your assessment of the reasons behind the ‘freeze’ but you have to convince the centrists in your own party to support such an agenda.

Republicans are less of an obstruction than the moderates in your own party.

Obama won the nomination because he convinced progressives that he was ‘one of them.’ But then in the general election he ran as a ‘moderate’ a pragmatist who ran on a promise to enact a “net spending cut” in federal outlays. Something fiscal conservatives were eager to believe after the brazen irresponsibility of the Bush years. We thought he was ‘one of us’ too.

Now the these sides of Obama’s political persona are in conflict. Add in the exposure of Chicago machine-style ‘crony capitalism’ that this administration has engaged in and it is no surprise that the electorate is angry, and disappointed.

Obama has fallen prey to the old political adage, by none other than the president he most admires: “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

Leaving now for real:)

McDonnell was still elected after this was exposed.

Go for, but in this political climate, I do not think it will work.

Lighten up. Jailing was a bit of hyperbole. Shunning not so much.

I confess to hypocrisy in not showing honor to all view points. I do honor your right to hold them.

Taking seriously and making concrete the corruption of Randian libertarianism has driven us to the brink if not over into Galt’s despicable gulch. We have become not only impoverished as to gold but more sadly spirit and civility.

Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, and Lawrence O’Donnel, now there is “Fair and Unbiased” News Reporting???

Lott left, George Allen went from Presidential Contender to losing an election McDonnel well his voters chose him. But in a National race this will hurt him.
The political climate is more about the economy agreed but in a close National race even a few percentage points loss from working moms could hurt him if he were to run for office.
Working Moms are suffering in this economy too and McDonnel’s views are a micotarget negative message aimed right at them.

MsMolly Thanks good to see my friends miss me and if one guy who’s views I agree with most of the time doesn’t get my comments well we do need everybody we can get in this fight.
I think I’ll live if he doesn’t think I’m a great commentor.

FDR locked up 250,000 thousand Japanese Americans. Not sure I want him to be president again. The best I have seen of Maddow is the sour puss face she had when she had to report that Brown won. All progressive policies are going bankrupt. That is why only 15% of Americans say they are progressive. Just a bit of reality to the party that loved eugenics in the twenties.

We are graced with the attendance of several exotic viewpoints, today.

A sign, no doubt, that the site is gaining both notoriety and INFLUENCE.

We welcome the civil, those willing to engage, we tolerate the confused, and seek to comfort the stricken, the rest are treated as their behavior deserves …

I expect we shall have many “guests” in the difficult days ahead.

DW

The Bush family were Democrats in the 20′s?

Just a bit of reality to the party that loved eugenics in the twenties.

Errrrrrrrrr. Check your facts. It was the GOP that were aficionados of selective breeding Herbert Hoover certainly went to great extremes to assure the world he was. Here Then there was the Corporatist GOP John D. Rockefeller,Jr. who exported and supported the eugenics establishment in Germany right up until 1939. There’s a lot more.

Eugenics was not attractive only to GOPers for sure but certainly not the Roosevelts. Recall the Marian Anderson story? for example.

To all appearances it yet thrives among some GOPers at least in South Carolina, still are. See theLt.Gov. comments. Here

Prescott Bush was a progressive. Eugenics was started by Sir Francis Galton.Half cousin of Darwin. Started in USA anyway. Has been around for a long time before then. Progressive Margaret Sanger, along with progressives Marie Stopes, H. G. Wells, Emile Zola and George Bernard Shaw were early pioneers. Woodrow Wilson was also into eugenics. Rockefeller was a progressive , who along with others, started Kaiser Wilhelm Inst. In Mein Kampf, Hitler praised the sterilization of defectives pioneered by progressives. Woodrow Wilson sterilized 60,000 people before program was stopped. Oliver Wendell Holmes is on a twenties era film, advocating a humane gas to rid the country of undesirables. Theodore Roosevelt was a progressive who also bought into this system. Wilson and Roosevelt were both progressives who ran against Taft. Wilson won. History is readily available. Progressives should learn the history of the name they call themselves. Wilson then locked up over 100.000 americans that spoke out against WW1. Not a good history. Eugenics was practiced up until 1975 by social democrats in Sweden. It was the second largest of all time.Read war against the week by Edwin Black.

I see any GOPers who are embarrassing are now called “Progressive.”

Lt. Governor Bauer in SC is a Progressive too?

No one has claimed that only the GOP supported and made policy on the basis of Eugenics. It is a sad tragic story that should not be made light of. Many well intentioned people were caught up with it.

For the right wing to distort the history in the service of politics is frankly reprehensible.

Glad you are here perhaps you can learn the truth of what current progressives believe.

You might check out my diary
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/26378

By rhe way, From the demise of the abolitionist (northern) Whigs until the Kennedys and Lyndon Johnson the major political parties were replete with racists.

Modern day Liberal Progressive Democrats and a few, now non-existent,progressive/liberal Republicans did something about it.

Woodrow Wilson would be called a Blue Dog today.

I do not think progressives of today are into Eugenics. I am saying a name change, perhaps. Progressives today rely on govt. to get their agenda across. I am here to tell you govt. will always let you down. I believe in the American people to bring us out of the fiasco govt. has put us in. Hardly a right wing idea. I could start up a cacer inst. that does great things with great motives. If I called it the kkk cancer inst. I would lose all credibility and rightfully so.

Racist is rare in this country. We are a nation of bigots. Racism is when you think you are superior, bigot not liking a particular thing or set of things. I think we dislike peoples actions more than the people themselves. All countries are bigoted for one reason or another.

I thought we, Americans, were supposed to be exceptional?

Now you are saying we are bigoted, just like everybody else?

Are we special or not?

To steve P
Your focus on the government always letting the people down is I think misplaced.

You will find that most here believe the government should represent the interests of the people as individuals while acting for us collectively (as in the military) when confronted by issues requiring it.

Our concern is that the government has not for years(Reagan,Bush,Clinton, Bush at the least)been fulfilling that obligation. Instead it has been sold to corporate interests to the neglect of the people, individually and as groups.

The constitution is what makes our country special.

Agreed.

Let’s go from there.

Why is the Constitution special to you?

The federal govt. has grown to powerful. The fed. is probably the entity that run the people in charge. The fed. is something else the progressives gave us. If we limit our federal govt. with the tenth amendment, the federal govt. would have less power and less money. In that sense, business would go back to lobbying the people instead of our politicians. Govt. has the power to regulate business, not get in bed with them.

The constitution is the document that is the corner stone. Even if you are not religious, your rights can not be taken away. They are from our creator. The constitution is the document, even after many stupid decisions made by man. freed the slaves. The slave issue was the big holdup at the convention.That is why the compromise was made on the words property and liberty. Madison and others argued the words pursuit of property would enslave the blacks for a longer time. Hence the word liberty. The idea that the people rule is one of the greatest accomplishments ever taken.The idea came from John Locke in England. While the constitution does not make us perfect, it makes for a great nation.If we would stick to it as written, we would not have our brave troops all over the world. Our forefathers wanted our foreign policy to be more like Switzerland, not the Roman empire.

So the Constitution, built on the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, ennumerates the rights of the people.

It also establishes government, for it recognized that men (and women) need to constitute the means of their protection of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,

We go from the very specific and personal; life, to the deliberately vague and personal; the pursuit of happiness.

I agree our government is in a bad way.

Can you think of any single factor or “reason” why that might be so?

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams feared that MONEY, concentrated in the hands of a few, was the largest single threat to the American people and the Constitution itself.

Do you think they had reason for such concern?

Do you agree with them?

115
The federal govt. has grown to powerful.

Yeah we can’t pass healthcare a jobs bill or end 2 wars nobody wants. I think you mean to say the rich have grown to powerful.

You are correct as is indie. Americans…especially progressives…want everything provided for them. Of course they want to pay for none of it themselves. Let those evil corps pay or those mean wealthy people.
The main theme of the progressive movement is to get others to pay for their personal expenses. Aren’t they all “entitlements?”

Jefferson had two worries. Big central govt. and big banks. He warned the two would get in bed with each other. Bush and Obama should have let them fail. The fed was tried in Jefferson and Madisons time. Hamilton wanted a big central bank. Others were violently opposed. I contend they were right. Jefferson wanted community banks that could not loan out more than 10% of the peoples money. Our military becoming nation builders and getting into wars that did not directly impede on our freedoms is another thing we need to address. Madison wrote the banks keeping 90% of the money would insure the peoples confidence to invest. If a bank were to fail, the peoples investment would not fail with them. Notice how Jefferson did not join,nor a little later, Madison, in the wars of Bonaparte across Europe. They did every thing they could to stay out.

You’re not leading up to “redistributing the wealth” are you?
A government is best that governs least.

Good points.

That “redistributuion” you speak to has already occurred.

Don’t you think, tinman?

So you and I agree that foreign “adventures” and “entanglements” are best avoided if possible, rather than gratutitously engaged in?

I will give you a small clue, you are making 1/2 arguments – which is great for you, but people will liekly not engage since it appears you have your own set of facts and no links. I say appears, I am sure some of what you say is valid.

Take taxes for instance, it would be easy to get a link on those numbers. But do you think perhaps most income taxes are paid by rich people because they have the most income (coupled with a progressive income tax)? I understand you may rail against this injustice… but do you really think someone is going to give up income because they are paying to much taxes? No, they will not. As a somewhat libertarian I am sure you will agree that if they do not want the income they can leave the job and try to get a better deal.

A poll, this is the kind of thing that is great. However… most readers here are experienced enough to know polls are misleading.

“Keep your damn gub’ment hands off my medicare.”

There are other polls where people ask about specific things (e.g., social security) and the response is quite different.

Your argument, if applied to political stragey, is correct – if applied to policy then its an entirely different conversation/debate.

Conn Yankee ones too likely.

They loved them some anti-life then… oh wait, they still do.

You are correct as is indie. Americans…especially progressives…want everything provided for them. Of course they want to pay for none of it themselves. Let those evil corps pay or those mean wealthy people.
The main theme of the progressive movement is to get others to pay for their personal expenses. Aren’t they all “entitlements?”

Where in the world did you get such bizarre ideas? Do you have links to polls etc?

So what are non-progressives – people that want all the bombs to be made and dropped for free for them?

I am pretty sure most progressives pay their taxes.

Gold Sachs had a 1% effective tax rate last year – wonder if they specified that it should pitch in for their bail-out. Cry babies.

Here’s a pretty good description from George Lakhoff’s blog on HP

Democracy is The Issue

The majority vote campaign gives us a chance to talk not only about this particular issue, but about democracy as it affects all issues. The clearest articulator of what democracy is about has been Barack Obama — the campaigner we cheered for, campaigned hard for, and voted for.

Democracy, he has observed, is based on empathy — on citizens caring about one another. That’s why we have principles like freedom and fairness, for everybody, not just for the rich and powerful. True empathy requires responsibility, not just for oneself, but also for others. And since we, as individuals and as a nation, are far from perfect, empathy demands an ethic of excellence, of making oneself better, one’s family and community better, and one’s nation better.

That view of citizenship in a democracy comes with a view of government. Government has two sacred moral missions: protection and empowerment.

Protection goes well beyond police and the military and the fire department to consumer protection, environmental protection, worker protection, health care, investor protection, social security, and other safety nets.

Empowerment is what the stimulus package was about: building and maintaining roads, bridges, public transportation, and public buildings; systems for communication, electricity, water; education, from pre-school through graduate and professional schools; scientific research and technological development; a banking system that works; a stock market that works; and a judicial system that works.

No one earns a living or lives well without protection and empowerment by the government. That is what taxes pay for. And the more you make from what the government gives you, the more you should contribute to keeping it going.

The more you make from what the govt gives you? What is that? The govt. earns nor produces wealth. We go to work and earn money. Then the govt. takes. The stimulus is loaded with fraud and waste. Our children are going to be paying that back. The progressives look at the govt. owning 100% of the money we make. Then they give us what THEY think we deserve. That is not how Capitalism works. We will give the govt. what we feel they need. Our services are supposed to be paid in local taxes. The federal govt. needs to protect our freedoms and maybe take care of our roads as in highways. States can do most of this.Our states created the federal govt. not the other way around.

You misread Lakoff’s somewhat poorly written statement. What is “given” is not MONEY, per se, but “protection” and “empowerment”.

But, to put it in somewhat different terms; suppose you are a “defense” contractor and the nation is at the end of a long, costly, war, both in terms of human treasure AND money, and you, good patriot that you are, appreciating the Constitution and all, made lots of war widgets, for which a grateful nation paid you rather handsomely – a lot of money. Would you then feel justified in paying no taxes if your attorney could talk to your accountant who had some really clever ideas as to how not only how you could pay NO TAXES, but also, that the Government(in the person of Senator Bigbucks) would also reward you further by giving you an even more lucrative “no bid” contract, but only if you could see your way clear to share just a little of this new money with the good Senator by paying his wife to decorate your office?

Now, would this situation be a problem for you?