[Welcome H.P. Albarelli, Jr, and Host Jeff Kaye.] [As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]
A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA’s Secret Cold War Experiments
Of all the ghosts that haunt U.S. history, few have more persistently stalked the conscience of this country than that of Frank Olson.
The subject of a sensational 1975 scandal, Olson has been the subject of numerous newspaper articles, essays, books, documentaries, and even an opera. Beginning with revelations from the Rockefeller Commission, Olson was identified as a civilian scientist working for the Department of Defense in the early 1950s, who had been secretly dosed by the CIA with LSD. The drug apparently resulted in disturbed behavior and his subsequent supposed suicide.
The government has stood by this story ever since, even though it was subsequently found to be riddled with inconsistencies and improbabilities. Investigative reporter and writer, H.P. Albarelli Jr., explores these in his terrific new book, “A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA’s Cold War Experiments.” In the process, he provides a convincing solution to the mystery of Olson’s death.
Albarelli spent nine years researching his book. He carefully takes the reader on a long, twisting and fascinating voyage through the landscape in which Frank Olson moved. Olson’s journey, whose final chapter began at a CIA retreat at rural Maryland’s Deep Creek Lake, and ended with a push or plunge out the tenth floor window of a Manhattan hotel room on November 28, 1953, is also a map illuminating a carefully hidden part of this nation’s history.
As the book’s title suggests, Olson’s death was intricately tied up with the history of U.S. interrogation, torture, and mind control experiments. Many readers are no doubt familiar with the acronym MKULTRA. This CIA program, and others like it – Project Bluebird, Operation Artichoke, MKNAOMI, MKSEARCH, among others – were launched in part in reaction to fears within the government that communist countries were outstripping the West in their ability to manipulate prisoners’ minds, and even create, via hypnosis and drugs, Manchurian Candidate assassins. Hysteria over “brainwashing” was later discovered to be whipped up by CIA-linked journalists.
The CIA worked closely with academic and military researchers, including many doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists. The scientists’ results were later operationalized in the CIA’s 1960s KUBARK and other interrogation manuals.
Olson may have been typical of the many Americans swept up in this mammoth endeavor, which in the end spent untold millions of dollars and caused an unknown number of deaths and psychiatric casualties.
One of the many revelations in this well-researched and documented book, and a key element in the Olson murder mystery, is the LSD dosing of an entire small French town, Pont-St.-Esprit, in August 1951. Four people died, and hundreds were afflicted. It may have been an incautious slip regarding the Pont-St.-Esprit episode that constituted what Frank Olson explained to his wife before his death was “a terrible mistake.”
From the book (p. 690):
According to Albert and Neal [two CIA informants], several weeks before the meeting at Deep Creek Lake, Frank Olson had “broken security” and talked about the French experiment on at least two occasions. He had been specifically cautioned by [CIA agent] Vincent Ruwet and [Ft. Detrick Special Operations Division chief] John Schwab about the “high level of security and sensitivity involving the experiment”….
The question was posed to the two sources: “Was this, the incident in France at Pont-St.-Esprit, the ‘un-American activity’ referred to in the papers given to the Olsons by [CIA Director] William Colby?”
Not surprisingly, the answer was, “Yes.”
Was Pont-St.Esprit solely a SOD operation?
No. It was a pre-ARTICHOKE joint operation between SOD [Ft. Detrick's Special Operations Division] and CIA’s security branch.
Did it involve any other intelligence agency such as the French?
Silence.
Albarelli’s book also chronicles the wrenching story of Frank’s wife and three children, how devastated they were by his death, how they were kept in the dark for decades over its circumstances, and how they fought to get the truth out, at great emotional cost. Albarelli himself describes how he was swept up into an investigation of the case by the New York District Attorney’s office in the late 1990s.
Implicitly the book also asks, who was Frank Olson, this emblem of Cold War skulduggery, the first known American to die an LSD-related death? The son of Swedish immigrants, he was called to duty during World War II and quickly recruited into the Army’s Chemical Warfare Service, where he worked at the Edgewood Arsenal. Criticized by some as “conceited” and a problem drinker, no one doubted he was a good husband and family man.
Despite any concerns about his character, Olson was considered reliable and promoted to the military’s new bio-weapons research center at Ft. Detrick, Maryland, where he joined the then-newly formed Special Operations Division in 1950. And thus began his association with the CIA, and most particularly Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, a top official with the CIA’s Technical Services Staff, the precursor to today’s CIA Office of Technical Services. (The OTS was identified by the recent CIA Inspector General Report as having been central to the vetting of SERE torture techniques for the attorneys working on the torture memos for the Bush-era Office of Legal Counsel).
No short summary can do justice to the amount of research and narrative substance Mr. Albarelli brings to his book. My hope is that readers here will be intrigued and read the book themselves, as it is one of the most amazing works of American history in recent memory.
Author’s Bio:
H.P. Albarelli Jr. divides his time between Vermont, Florida, and London, England. He is a graduate of Antioch Law School, and worked in President Jimmy Carter’s White House. He also worked for the U.S. Department of Treasury, the National Consumer Cooperative Bank, and was on the senior policy staff of the Service Employees International Union, AFL-CIO. He has traveled widely throughout Asia, Europe, and Africa, and has written numerous newspaper and magazine articles on biological warfare and intelligence affairs. His novel The Heap was published in 2005. His biography of George Hunter White will be published by Trine Day in 2011. He can be contacted through his website: www.albarelli.net.



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I want to thank Henry Albarelli for being here, and for the prodigious amount of research and time put into this book. It’s quite amazing. Thanks also to Bev and the whole FDL crew for making this possible.
There is so much in your book, Hank, it’s hard to know where to start. I’m sure readers will have plenty of questions.
But let me begin here. In the conclusion of “A Terrible Mistake” you wrote that you’d started out writing an “historical account about a perplexing mystery.” In the end, “It became an account of a nation whose best and brightest scientists and physicians, in their quest to preserve democracy and combat Communism, were willing to sacrifice virtually everything that was good about America, not to mention the lives and well being of innocent people.”
Do you have any other thoughts about that, or reflections upon parallels to events today?
Hank, Welcome to the Lake.
Jeff, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
I’m here. Thank you very much.
And if any of you haven’t seen the link to Hank’s book, it’s here:
A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA’s Secret Cold War Experiments
I was quite surprised through all of my research to discover some many top
scientists involved w/out concern in the CIA experiments.
Yes, the amount of well-known doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists involved was impressive, and disheartening, given the lack of ethical regard for human subjects.
A lot of people will want to know this up front, because of rumors and articles published over he years, but how important were the actions of Dick Cheney in the Olson cover-up? Rumsfeld, too? What can you say about that?
H.P.,
I’m guessing you don’t believe the Olson case to be an aberration but rather part of a much larger pattern.
Thanks for being here.
The conclusion I came to was that many physicians were quite patriotic,
and the CIA was offering a lot of money for research. During the cold war government funding for medical and psychological research increased by nearly 100%.
I’m not sure it is part of a pattern, however, the CIA has killed a good number of people over the years.
Did you interview James S Ketchum for your book or Linda Hunt?
I echo Jeff’s words and am still attempting to process all the connections in your book. The history and the extensive documentation you have provided are critical to our historical archives. You made me an instant fan.
Do you have any information on the injuries or illnesses of the seven plaintiffs in the ruling on the CIA/MKULTRA/Vietnam Vets case that was released this week?
Trudy Bond
Hank, went to pick up the book at my local bookstore two days ago and they were out, so I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. From Jeff’s description, it sounds valuable and fascinating and I’m looking forward to reading it.
Related to Jeff’s question… I’m sure you’ve followed Scott Horton’s investigative reporting of the three Guantanamo “suicides,” who, the evidence suggests, were in fact tortured to death. Given your exceptional familiarity with government lawlessness and coverups, I wonder what perspective you have on the Guantanamo episode?
Cheney and Rumsfeld did not know the entire story about Olson until
Rockefeller Commission staffers provided them with secret information.
I do wish that some of those physicians and psychologists who are still around from those days, well-known individuals like Robert Jay Lifton (who has publicly spoken out against torture), Edgar Schein, Leo Goldberger, and others, would speak out or write, memoir-style, what they remember about those days. All three of those mentioned above had some contact early on with these programs, or people who they knew worked in them.
Did you discover how many of the doctors even knew that Sidney Gottlieb was providing the funding thru the SOD office at Fort Detrick? Ot was the fact of the CIA invovlement hidden from them?
On the Gitmo episode: it’s extremely sad and upsetting that this happened.
But it is nothing new; the CIA has maintained safe houses and black sites for decades and people have died as a resul of interrogations.
I don’t know what Hank will remark, but the fact that unethical and harmful experimentations on humans continued at Edgewood long after, say, Olson was there, i.e., for decades, shows the power of institutional links. It’s one reason I’ve emphasized the role of OTS (TSS in the Olson book) in the vetting stage (or more) of the recent SERE torture described in the OLC torture memos.
My conclusion was that at least half, if not more, knew of CIA funding. Gottlieb visited many of the sites on a regular basis.
this ruling only menas that the veterans get to face the government in court and attempt to make the DOD, Army and CIA answer questions about what really happened from 1955 thru 1975. I know all of the plaintiffs and about 45 more of the Edgewood veterans. We have an online group that we communicate thru
Yes, Linda Hunt as a huge help to me… I did not interview Ketchum.
I ‘d like to know more about that group… men and woman that enlist in the military basically give up all of rights as citizens.
Hank, a particular interest of mine…
How much did you delve into the chemical and bioweapons research programs by the U.S. government, which Olson and others were involved with? How difficult was it getting any of that material?
I certainly would understand the need for protection and confidentiality. Is that listserv closed to the public?
Dr. Lifton read my book and said he was quite impressed. However, Lifton’s story in the brainwashing saga of the Cold War remains to be fully revealed.
Good afternoon Hank and welcome to FDL this afternoon.
I have not had a chance to read your book but do recall this story when it first break way back when. No real question but as a comment, I have to say as someone who used a few hallucinogens back then, that it is quite unconscionable for anyone to dose someone unawares. Just not a good idea in any way shape or form, no matter what justification may have been used.
It was fairly difficult getting info and data on Army experiments…
FOIA requests to the military are handles slowly… some requests took 18 to 24 months for a reply…
Re my question on the bioweapons research. I believed you spoke to Canadian historian Stephen Endicott about the germ warfare in China angle. I also know you believe that it wasn’t an indiscretion on Olson’s part about that that did him in (as Frank’s son, Eric, thought). But did you come to a conclusion yourself about the truth or falisity regarding U.S. bioweapon attacks in North Korea and China?
is there anything truly shocking you learned thru your investigation? Were you surprised to learn that the government refuses to help the veterans that were used in the experiments even now more than 4 decades later, that it is a matter of routine to deny anything wrong happened during the Cold War experiments..despite the fact that Edgewood Arsenal has one of the most contaminated aquifers in the nation and it was not capped until 1978, so the military and civilains drank and bathed in this toxic soup until then, actually it is amazing that more men and women are not dead or ill, the last time I saw the EPA superfund report it showed 77 toxic substances in the water and soil.
It is NOT a good idea at all to give someone LSD w/out their willingness or knowledge… Olson however well knew the dangers of LSD.
I think the LSD was mixed with another drug used in interrogations… Meretron? or something. What do you know about that?
I have been in e mail contact with Jeff for quite awhile now, the group is not an open group it is a close kept private e mail list
Welcome testvet, glad you’re here.
I was shocked to learn of the Pont St. Esprit experiment. I did not expect that at the beginning of my work. It is not in my book, but I was also shocked to learn that the CIA performed tests at high schools in my home state and that one of them was my school… these were not LSD experiments, but instead were personality testing.
I have to admit that I haven’t yet read your book, Mr. Albarelli, but I shall get to it soon. The CIA has been of special interest to me ever since I read The Invisible Government by David Wise and Tom Ross in 1964. I graduated from high school then and it was a year of awakenings on many fronts. So, thank you in advance for what I am sure will be an enlightening read.
A very important point, and it’s amazing that many, many doctors (psychiatrists) and psychologists did exactly this. Even Dr. Beecher, who later helped promote a stronger ethics and human subjects code, did such experiments himself in the 1950s. (Al McCoy has written an essay on this for the Journal of the History of Behavioral Science.)
Yes, the CIA mixed meretron into its LSD so as to make the experinence more
speedy… more intense… they also on occasion used Metrazol in interrogation, which is a very damaging drug…
Hi MB, testvet! So nice to see some of the DKos crowd coming over here.
wow so many “friends” here hey MB
Do you know if any of those drugs ever made it to the “street”, as LSD did?
Mr. Albarelli, thank you for your time today and your excellent work on Frank Olson. Both Marcy Wheeler an I have written extensively about the case of Bruce Ivins and Amerithrax (if you want cites or link, let Jeff know and I’ll make sure you get them) and the Ivins matter seems to have some striking parallels to Olson. Do you have any really brief thoughts on Ivins and have you given any thought to delving into that as a followup project subsequent to Olson and A Terrible Mistake?
I did not study the issue as much as I would have liked, but I came to the conclusion that we did not use biological weapons in Korea… that conclusion was based primarily on interviews with former Camp Detrick scientists.
Yes, I’d love to see the links on Ivins. I am very curious about that case. There are lots of things that make no sense.
jeff I think you had a “good idea” I would be here today given this subject as my shrink says I have OCD duh use me as a human guinea pig then spend decades lying about it to me about me tell congressman and senators I am a “lunatic” yea I have OCD over it…..who wouldn’t
Good afternoon gentleman.
I had read elsewhere that much funding in this time frame was through Sloan Kettering.
I recntly ran across an Alternatives Future Project at University of Illionois from back in early ’70′s.
Are you familiar with this?
Here is a link to some interesting info germane to issues at hand.
Scientists on Acid: The Story Behind “Changing Images of Man”Scientists on Acid: The Story Behind “Changing Images of Man” 2007 07 27. From: skilluminati.com. Sometimes it can take months for the meaning of a sentence …
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=1507 – Cached – Similar
Were there times during your research and writing that you were particularly frightened for your own safety? I’m thinking, of course, of the phone call from the CIA detective that you mention in the prologue.
bmaz and Hank, here’s one of those links: Bruce Ivins Rips the FBI’s Anthrax Case to Shreds in His Will, and this, FBI’s Robert Mueller Still Engaging in an Anthrax Cover-Up
Besides LSD, not many of the CIA’s drugs made it to the street, except, of course, for heroin…the agency hired many people, and still do today, who traffick in heroin. They claim that they have to deal with “unsavory characters.”
Thank you very much for the link…
HI,
I was wondering about any connections that you know of to the German scientists from Operation Paperclip and the involvement of the Pentagon through military intelligence. I know that most of them were rocket scientists, but perhaps you know something we don’t about that.
It seems that there was a lot of overlap between the CIA and MI contractors during the period. Could you comment on that as well? What was the relationship? What would cause a contractor to go back and forth between CIA and Mil Intel? What was MIl Intel working on? The same things, or did the CIA do all of this kind of work?
Not enough people know the price the Olson family paid for having the husband and father work for the CIA and then he made a bad career choice by trying to get out to become a dentist it made the wrong people mad, British Intelligence and the CIA i.e Sidney Gottlieb
I am not familiar with the Alternatives Future funding project… but I’d like to learn more…
Glad to see you here. Make sure you take care of yourself, as those who were victims of this kind of thing, even great talks like this can bring back unpleasant feelings and memories. That said, I am glad to “see” you here.
On Project Paperclip: they were at least 25-35 biochemists, former Nazis, that were brought to Detrick and other sites in the U.S. I have a list of over 600 names of former Nazis that were brought to the U.S. to work on medical and biochemical projects.Paperclip was far more expansive than people think.
I see in Hank’s book that Werner Braun was involved in Artichoke (p. 790 in the notes). I assume that’s Werner von Braun of V-2 fame, later with NASA.
For at least his first 5-6 years with Detrick and his first 2 years with the CIA projects Olson was content and happy… after a while he grew tired of the work and wanted to move on…
Linda Hunt documented that 8 German doctors were employed at Edgewood Arsenal in human research after WW2 thru the mid 60s and they helped establish the protocols and parameters for the testing on American soldiers, I feel that is part of the informed consent they never told us about if they had told me 8 Nazis were there I would have never volunteered to participate and I doubt the other 7119 other men and women would have either they lied to us by not telling us
One only has to read of the seduction of the Nazi doctors to understand. I have been a passionate activist in the service of medical ethics since doing some research in that area. I am an admirer of Jay Lifton. He does have many stories yet to tell.
The CIA has not that I can tell changed much except to expand their belief in entitlement and mission beyond the chain of commamd. We know of the corruption of the medical, psychological, even theological professionals in facilitating torture today.
Anecdotally I did have some relationship with one of the uninformed subjects of the LSD experiments of the 50s.
Yes, correct. Von Braun was the spokesperson for Walt Disney and had nothing to do with biological warfare.
I’m sure you’re full of projects. I believe your book says you’re working on a biography of Bureau of Narcotics agent (also worked for CIA on Artichoke and MKULTRA, running safehouses) George White. But maybe you can squeeze out an article on Paperclip someday, because that sounds important and fascinating.
I agree. The Army alone tested LSD on nearly 6,500 servicemen. No women were included, so they say…
I think all told there were about 2200 Germans brought into the US thru Paperclip they went to military bases all across the us a lot of Air Force bases and Army and many on CIA projects…..
I don’t think the CIA has changed much at all except to become much, much better at hiding things and keeping projects secret… but they still use LSD in interrogations both here in the U.S. and at Gitmo.
That number sounds right to me.
Yes, an article on Paperclip would be helpful for a lot of people.
H.P they did not use LSD on women but they admitted women to the “med vol” program in 1974 and then they were forced to stop in 1975 so there were not many women used in total in all they tested 254 different substances LSD was but one of them
Do you have any documentation that you can share about experimentation at Gitmo? If you do, I’m certainly comfortable if you just shared it with Jeff who would forward (I assume, Jeff??).
If you at all know Dr. Lifton — whose book The Nazi Doctors is a must read for all — then tell him that his mentor Erik Erikson would want him to write the history of all he knows from that time. He’s an old man now, and before he dies, we need his testimony as a survivor from that time. Dr. Lifton, who has written of mass social amnesia and denial when it comes to horrific events (like Hiroshima) knows better than most the price of silence on these things.
Well women were a minute fraction of military up until the ’70s and ’80s and beyond.
Yes, I was surprised to discover that Dr. Beecher was a covert operative for the CIA. He interacted often with the Sandoz chemical company.
Trudy, of course! You need ask? (Unless sent to me with a pledge of non-disclosure or confidentiality issues arose.)
I became totally disabled in Oct 2002 I have had plenty of time to research Edgewood Arsenal and Sidney Gottlieb my shrinks says it’s an obsession I say it is what caused my disabilities……
Eric Olson is very close to Dr. Lifton: I’ll pass the suggestion on to Eric for sure.
Thanks for being so responsive to questions, Hank?
Here’s another one: Do you totally believe the story given by the two CIA informants, Albert and Neal? What was their motivation in coming to you?
Were you a test subject at Edgewood?
I didn’t mean to put a question mark after the sentence on responsivity to questions. The typo made the sentence read totally wrong.
Well, I can’t say a whole lot, but Albert and Neal did not really come to me; I’d known one of them through my family for over 35 years and trusted him because I knew him well and I knew his personal story so well…
he was very much a part of our family… the other man was also very close to my father.
I’m confused. Did the famous Werner Von Braun work with Artichoke or not? Was there more than one Werner Braun?
Yes I am one of the 7120 men my number is 6778A I was there from June 25 – August 22 1974 I got to see Nixon quit and leave
Yes, that is correct about women in the service, but the Pentagon had a specific policy against experimenting with women in the 50s and 60s.
yes my screen name is a result of those 2 months I am not a veternarian rofl
Also, any thought re Trudy’s question as to whether you ever felt endangered yourself when doing all this work?
People often say to me, watch out, don’t fly in any small planes, etc. I think that fear over speaking out is a real thing, even in 21st century America. So her asking that question may be something a lot of people are wondering about.
I’m trying to research Operation Paperclip and the Germans and American contractors who worked with Von Braun from 1945 through to NASA.
Any suggestions? Authors? Scientists or others still alive? Did FOIA requests on personnel or programs get you any info from CIA or the Pentagon or did your research require mostly other methods? If I do FOIA requests on specific people how should I phrase that in the requests?
Thanks so much for your comments and/or suggestions!
No Von Braun the rocket scientist was not a part of Artichoke. There was a former Nazi doctor who had a name that was similar that was, can’t recall his name right now…
I have some files I can share with you on Paperclip.E-mail me at my website.
Your personal knowledge of these two men calls to mind thoughts I’d had about the role of coincidence in this story. I think you pointed to it at one point in the book.
Your relationship with Armond Pastore, for instance, the Statler asst manager, appears to be crucial to uncovering what happened to Olson on Nov. 28. The info on Jean Martin aka Lafitte appears to have come via a chance discussion with him. Were there a lot of these coincidental finds during your research?
FYI for those interested, H.P. Albarelli’s website link.
Yes, Armond was very helpful in all. At that point in time when he revealed the info about Martin I was pretty sure that Martin/Lafitte had been employed by the hotel. Pastore put the nail in that coffin. He was a fine and decent man and I was really saddened by his death.
I have read the Nazi doctors and keep it as a text book. I do not know him personally but do know those who do. I know he has been urged.
Also I actually have some of my own amateur interpretations form the viewpoint of a practicing physician online and am planning to try to get them together for a diary in the next few days.
The Nazi Doctors is a classic. Everyone should read it.
The program linked between the biomedic community and researchers at University of Illinois. It can easily be googled. But the link I gave you above provides some truly startling information.
(Excerpt)
“When you look for a formal program by that name, you’re led not to the Stanford Research Institute, but the University of Illinois, where Charles Osgood and Stuart Umpleby wrote a report entitled “A Computer-based Exploration of Alternative Futures for Mankind 2000 a computer program about the future had a lot of time and money invested in it.The Alternative Futures project at the University of Illinois was funded by the same people who paid for Stanford Research Institutes’s work: the Charles F. Kettering Foundation. ”
(redice creations,link above)
As do I. It would be difficult to read the entire thing through as a regular book, in part because of length, in part because of mass of detail, in part because it’s so awful to read content-wise. But a truly great book.
Hank, this has been fascinating. Thank you for your time. Gotta run now, but will read the rest of the thread when I’m back at my computer, and am looking forward to the book even more than I was before. There’s some great material here for my next novel, which hopefully will a little bring more attention to Olsen, Artichoke, etc., and by extension to what continues to go on in secret today.
Thank you again and all the best,
Barry
Fascinating. I will dig into this. A great deal of CIA research went on at the Stanford Institute. And still goes on today.
This is an important book; I’m in the middle of it and find I must set it aside sometimes, as it is really quite scary. Thank you for writing it, though, as it’s a story that needed to be told.
Because I haven’t finished it, I need to ask: did you ever come across a Dr Lay in your research? He would have been a CIA employee/manager, at or near the center of the LSD experimentation from the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties.
Thanks for the wonderful introduction, Jeff, and thanks to both of you for chatting today.
Thank you, Barry. I do believe I’ve read a couple of your books!
The name Lay sounds very familiar… where was he employed?
Thanks for dropping by, Barry. For those who don’t know, Barry Eisler has written a novel which is a thinly veiled history of the recent Bush-era torture scandal and destroyed videotapes issue, entitled Inside Out. There’s a character named Marcy Wheeler in it. Hmmmmmmm.
Oh, yes, the book isn’t due out until June 29.
I do look forward to reading this book thank you for writing it the more sunshine poured on this the better
I can’t believe no one’s asked this yet, but any reaction about your book from official Washington, Congress, the executive branch or military, especially the CIA?
Anybody remember this Anthrax letter?
“Death to America
Death to Israel
Allah is Great”
Sounds like the Lavon Affair
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/frameup.html
Last week there was an inquiry from the French DGSE to the State Dept. about the Pont St. Esprit incident as layed out in the book. I was contacted by a couple French reporters who are digging into the story in France. I think that’s great.
By any chance does your book mention the work of Dr. Cornelius Rhoads?
He was closely affilaited with one the Rockefeller Research Insitutes ,way back in the ’30′s. Did a lot of cancer research in Puerto Rico-to great controversy,some say.
BTW, he became the Director of Sloan Kettering in later years.
Washington is very, very slow to respond to books or reports that they don’t want out. The CIA will most likely stick to its old line that Olson killed himself and that’s all they know, but that will be a lot harder now.
An interesting thought worth pursuing. Here’s a link for info on the Lavon Affair.
“Jewish microbiologist Dr. Philip M. Zack may be behind the deadly anthrax contaminated letters that were mailed to NBC’s Tom Brokaw, Senator Tom Daschle and others, according to FBI sources. In a rapidly unravelling investigation by the FBI, it appears that the “Arab-hating-Jew” was behind a vile conspiracy to frame a colleague who was born in Egypt and who worked, along with Dr. Zack, at the U.S. Army’s Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases in Fort Detrick, Md.”
http://aztlan.net/zack.htm
“In 1991 Dr. Assaad discovered the eight-page poem in his mailbox. The poem was lewd and mocked Dr. Assaad. The poem also referred to the rubber camel that was passed around. It was outfitted with all manner of sexually explicit appendages. The poem in part read: “In Assaad’s honor we created this beast; it represents life lower than yeast.” The bigots noted that the rubber camel will be given each week “to who did the least.””
Thanks so much Jeff, and thank you Hank for being here today.
Why were they testing your high school?
Wow, that’s great. Too bad it’s just French reporters contacting you. The U.S. press, with some exceptions, have been comatose on this story and others like it. Your book is like a Xmas gift chock full of possible scoops and article angles, but the U.S. MSM are too busy chasing puff pieces, or reciting politicians’ spin stories to really serve this country the was a free press should.
I know all about Rhodes. He was something. Rockefeller’s fingerprints are all over the MK/ULTRA story and the CIA’s nefarious doings. It was no coincidence that he headed up Ford’s commission to look at CIA abuses. The cancer and eugenics research done and underwrtten by Rockefeller is scary. A book by William Engdahl covers a lot of this quite well.
Wow. I’d like to learn more about that.I really dislike it when religion comes into these matters.
I haven’t time to look into this new info now, but will later.
If you are not acquainted with this ’70′s SRI paper , please do so.A brief mention is made in the earlier post about the Alternatives Future Project, but this is a distinct and different research paper.
I have posted this many times on Jeff’s threads,and I hope he does’t mind .
A must,imho.
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Yes, that’s a very interesting question. I’d never heard of CIA testing at high schools before.
The U.S. press is comatose on nearly everything today.
They basically don’t care. My theory is that most media people
want to be stars not reporters… they have become seduced by
television… and, of course, the CIA has a stronger and heavier hand
in the media– more so than ever.
Cui bono should always be the first question when terror strikes.
CIA testing in high schools was done primarily through a D.C. front
operated by John Gittinger. He worked for CIA-TSS under Gottlieb for years; in fact, he helped hire Gottlieb. I have just learned about this testing through a woman who was confined to the Waterbury State Hospital in Vermont.
(Mentioned briefly in my book.) She had files on her case that revealed the testing at high schools in Vermont.
I have read some of this material, but it’s not convincing to me. When I read paragraph after paragraph about amazing events and predictions and conspiracies, but very little of real content, then I figure it’s mostly smoke, and no real fire.
But thanks for the links, and readers can certainly take a look and make up their own minds.
Can you send more on this to me e-mail address?
One look at cable news certainly seals that.
I will travel to SF for the trial this summer I wonder who the alphabet agencies have there for it I have friends there but after all of this I could hardly miss the trial could I?
“She had files on her case that revealed the testing at high schools in Vermont.”
I’ll have to look into that. I know they had a big eugenics program in Vermont.
Yes, they are a real herd of individuals.
H.P., have you heard any of the rumors that Jonestown Guyana was part of MKUltra or something similar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HULqx4SP46Y
Yes, eugenics was huge in the past in Vermont.
After I considered it, I thought, Vermont a perfect place to get away with just about anything. Dr, Hyde, a CIA contractor in Boston, ended up in Vermont at the State hospital there.
I am not sure what you are referring to,Jeff.
Yes, Ive heard a great number of rumors and stories about Jonestown.
A producer at ABC in NYC told me about 7 years ago that she was warned off
doing any show on it by the CIA. Warned off to the point that she became very frightened. The whole Jonestown thing really stinks. Something more was goin on there. There were CIA officials there the day Cong. Ryan was murdered. Why?
I have several ancestors who were treated at that Waterbury mental hospital.
Ah, yes, Gittenger. He used the Wechsler IQ tests as the basis of a character assessment instrument of his own, meant to classify subjects and how they might respond to various forms of interrogation (the Personality Assessment System, PAS). He testified before Ted Kennedy at hearings in the 1970s. His followers, even today, see Gittinger as a kind of god, have even written poems about him.
Here’s a chapter on John Gittinger, online, from John Marks’ classic book, the Search for the Manchurian Candidate.
Gittinger was one of the CIA’s top psychologists. His PAS is still taught, and those interested can check out the Personality Assessment System Foundation, no doubt CIA-linked.
Also very interesting to note given the recent news, is that Haiti was a favorite place for drug experiments for several decades… this for the drug companies and the CIA… an agency official said they liked using Haiti because they could get away with anything there…
Links such as this, which you posted above. I don’t find it convincing. Not that events it documents don’t happen, but in my mind, its more about psyops than any real “plan.”
Gittinger: yes, the files speak of PAS testing…not only that, however, this woman’s medical files were also sent to Gittenger; she was given electro shock therapy a number of time. How this connects to PAS testing is beyond me.
I would really love to watch a big budget Hollywood fictionalized account of Jim Jones and the CIA mind control theory.
It would be a huge blockbuster.
Really? Are they still alive? can you speak with them?
I worked with his daughter in the eighties; I believe he worked in the DC area for the CIA. I was surprised not to see his name in your index, but I think there’s still a lot we don’t know about all of this, things that have not yet been made public.
Just a hunch, but y’know, I grew up in McLean Virginia where we all thought that nice Mr James J Angleton was retired and grew African violets.
I agree but nobody would believe it. They’d think it was science fiction.
Hank, if there is an aspect of the CIA and other clandestine interrogation/drug/mind control work that doesn’t get much coverage today, or isn’t well-known, and which deserves more scrutiny, what would that be? Where should the reader start in trying to put together what is most important in the welter of all this information and data?
Angleton was rare orchid himself. Many people think he was a mole for the Russians.
Hank, I just wanted to stop in and thank you for writing this book and to Jeff for hosting this fascinating discussion. Hank, on your point about the CIA’s involvement with the media would you mind expanding upon that a bit and describe what you see that raises red flags?
I believe they would have wanted to correlate the receptivity or response to whatever they were doing with the electric shocks (brain depatterning?) to personality type. MKULTRA had important concerns with identifying types when going into interrogation, the better to formulate an interrogation plan to the individual, figure out who would “break”, who would not.
There’s actually a discussion around this in the KUBARK manual.
Even today, I believe some of the experiments around interrogation conducted by the CIA, DIA/DHS and others, upon Abu Zubaydah, at Camp No at Gitmo, and elsewhere, were in part meant to determine how subjects would respond to various pressures and techniques, the better to fine tune their “science” of matching prisoner to interrogation type, and then, supposedly know if the intel was good, or who they could “turn” as a double agent, or make “confess”.
There is a tremendous amount of disinformation and just bad info out there on mind control and interrogation.A good place to start is my book and that of John Marks. There is also another book that came out about the same time as Marks’ that is very good, The Mind Manipulators.
Interrogation is a subject that cries out for a good book— on both the history and current practices; melding Artichoke and MKULTRA into the overall history.
a little bit of everyone drops by here
Hollywood fictionalized account of Jim Jones and the CIA mind control theory:
Young Jones is horribly abused by father
Young Jones tortures animals and dreams of becoming a preacher
Jones’ childhood friend starts working with the CIA
Jones himself gets involved with the CIA, they train him in Brazil
Jones comes back to America, and starts Utopian church with substantial funding and guidance from CIA
Jones becomes an important political figure, turning out cheerful, rainbow colored crowds to support any politician who plays ball with Jones
Jones hangs out with Jimmy Carter’s wife
Jones sexually abuses his flock, especially the male ones
Jonestown is established, and mind control experiments are carried out on the homeless and mental patients who make up Jones’ flock. 90% are women, and most of them black.
Jones descends into a drug induced haze, while his voice is blasted 24/7 on loudspeakers, per the CIAs instructions
Congressman Ryan starts causing a storm, culminating in a visit to Jonestown, a shootout at the airport, and the slaughter of hundreds of victims, in part by Green Berets who hunt the victims down in the jungle over the course of two-three days
Thank you for the reply.
The Online piece provides an essay, an opinion piece with link to the actual study.
For those who do not wish to read the original report it provides some abbreviated info,and an option to study further.
All opinions are subjective, but I don’t recall any such objection regarding this piece from you,in the past ,when I posted it.
if LSD was a great drugs for interrogation then why did they destroy the DVDs of the interrogations of the “dirty bomber” they did at Charleston Naval Brig? They destroyed them and then never charged him with trying to get a nuclear weapon Padilla was charged with everything but that
On red flags and the media: I encounter a lot of journalists who simply won’t touch anything that they think the CIA would not like… some even go so far as to say that they don’t want to offend or disrupt the agency… Why? I suspect that every major media outlet in the U.S., and most likely overseas, has at least one or two covert CIA employees working for them… Carl Bernstien wrote about that years ago, and I don’t think the situation has changes except for becoming more wide spread…
Now-Congresswoman Jackie Speier was Congressman Ryan’s staffer; she lay on the airport tarmac left for dead for 24 hours in Guyana.
Oh, yes, and figure out who might be a good hypnosis subject, and possibly a dissociation-prone individual, the better to fashion hypnotic Manuchurian Candidate types. I know it sounds crazy, and sci-fi, but there’s plenty of documentation that the CIA at least tried to do this, and had some minor successes. Whether they really were able to program an assassin remains undocumented, to my knowledge.
George Orwell:
“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
Well, Carl Bernstein oughta know about CIA plants among newsmen, considering who he got his first big scoop with.
Yes, I agree, Jeff. I think Gitmo in many ways is a laboratory for refining
techniques for multiple agencies. That most likely is one of the reasons they don’t want to close it. I was upset to see today on the news that Gitmo may not close for another 2 years.
Great question.
Carl Bernstein writing, in Rolling Stone about the CIA and Operation Mockingbird infiltrating the press:
http://danwismar.com/uploads/Bernstein%20-%20CIA%20and%20Media.htm
That is a very good quote.
Frankly, I hadn’t had time to read it. But I’ll look more into it later, i.e., the other links, and see what I make of it. In part, I was thinking of other things people send me about one world conspiracies, how Rockefeller ran the world, etc. These are either reflections of how powerful certain elites really are (like that represented in action by the CIA), or fantasies, or psyop material put out to mislead people from the real stories and criminals in government, Pentagon, military contractors and defense-linked corporations, etc.
H.P., I’ll read your book and spread the word. You seem really cool, and the story itself should be such a good mystery that even the conspiracy theory averse might enjoy it.
Yes, I’ve tried to make some notice of those destroyed tapes, but not much was ever said by many about it. We can thank the MSM for reporting it, though, but probably only because it came up in the court docs.
Bob Woodward. Yes, author Len Colodny who lives down the road from me is absolutely convinced that Woodward is CIA. And he has convinced me of the same. His book Silent Coup is a must read for anyone that wants to really understand Watergate.
CIA Director William Casey:
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
Thank you very much, Bill. Greatly appreciated.
Linda Hunt has written about Paperclip in The Secret Agenda
Two years! Jesus. I can’t believe that Obama didn’t know this from the beginning, or not long after making his “promise.” Their strategy is evidently to keep everyone dancing around, while they pull the strings.
that could explain the reason for the u.s. government to kidnap and forcibly remove aristede from haiti. and also why the u.s. is so intent on implanting all its soldiers and creating a tent city for escapees at gitmo.
instead of, say, creating tent cities in haiti for the displaced. or letting aid flights land, etc.
At some point the media must begin to care about these issues or we are simply in serious trouble as a country.
Great article. Reading it along with Hank’s book, and you’ll feel you live in an entirely different country than the one you think you grew up in. In fact, we did.
That’s a new one on me, but the Casey quote says it all. We are pawns in a giant game that we don’t understand fully.
Russ Baker’s “Family of Secrets” goes into great detail on Bob Woodward being CIA.
Woodward was a young Navy Intelligence guy (and sheep dipped CIA agent) who was recommended to the Washington Post by a high level White House aide.
Since Woodward had no experience or education in journalism, the Post sent him to a smaller paper to groom him for a year.
As soon as the Post brought Woodward up to the big leagues, what do you know?
Papa and Baby Doc made a huge amount of $$$$$ by looking the other way on drug testing in their country.
I’ll be ordering this from Amazon.
With the recent Supremes’ decision and the media consolidation that occurred in the late 90s, the meida isn’t going to tell us anything they don’t want us to know.
As it is, if a book is too dangerous for mere mortals, it is pulled almost immediately and then becomes hard to find and if found prohibitively expensive on the second-hand market.
Yes, Russ bakers book is also a must read.It’s very, very good, but on Woodward it mostly repeats Colodny’s book, which has a tremendous amount of shocking info on Watergate.
Yes, that is exactly right. Look what happened to the book on Katherine Graham.
Any sources on this, as readers might be interested.
Silent Coup, duly noted.
There are a number of good books about Operation Paperclip.
Klaus Barbie escaped France after WWII using the same network that Dulles used to get other Nazis out of Germany, the Vatican.
My father who died 2 weeks ago was very upset about what has happened to America. He fought in 2 wars and was wounded 4 times, yet fought because he felt that it was his duty. (WWII and Korea) But before he died he questioned what was becoming of his country. It made him quite sad. He hated what was going on in Gitmo.
This is pure speculation, but if the CIA was interested in mind control and had access to lots of drugs, Jonestown would have been a very interesting place to them. “Here, Jim, have some more drugs. Mind if my friend hangs around for a while and listens to your sermons? He’s very interested in your church.” A laboratory of humans that they aren’t responsible for. It would be a wet-dream for some of those people.
I hope your book has been selling decently, and this is a discreet reminder that if readers haven’t yet purchased Hank’s book, A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson, a link to Amazon.com’s store is only a clickthrough away.
As we come to the end of this lively Book Salon,
Hank, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and Frank Olson.
Jeff, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.
Everyone, if you haven’t bought Hank’s book yet, here is a link.
Thanks all.
Are we on the same wave length- Iwas just going to post that and ask Mr.Albarelli what effect that may have on the mercenary grups and MIC-not to mention bio Pharma.
Our condolences for your father’s death, Hank. He must have been a special man.
Yes, Linda Hunts book is great. I only wish it were twice as long, which it could have been. Linda got a lot of grief for writing that book. A lot. All of it undeserved. She is a fine and wonderful person and writer.
Thank you ever so much for this wonderful opportunity. I have really enjoyed it.
Thanks to all who made this afternoon at the Lake so informative …and thank you for your years in service and research,Mr.A.-and- Mr. K.
My thanks to Hank Albarelli for a great book, and to all for a great discussion on this fascinating and important topic. I hope everyone buys Hank’s book… What a read!!
Also thanks to Bev and the FDL tech people for providing this forum. They are a treasure.
H.P., the U.S. robber barons relationship with the Nazis would be another great topic for a book.
The U.S. Ambassador in Germany, William Dodd, wrote FDR from Berlin on October 19, 1936 (three years after Hitler came to power), concerning American industrialists and their aid to the Nazis:
“At the present moment more than a hundred American corporations have subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings. The DuPonts have three allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief ally is the I. G. Farben Company, a part of the Government which gives 200,000 marks a year to one propaganda organization operating on American opinion. Standard Oil Company (New Jersey sub-company) sent $2,000,000 here in December 1933 and has made $500,000 a year helping Germans make Ersatz gas for war purposes; but Standard Oil cannot take any of its earnings out of the country except in goods. They do little of this, report their earnings at home, but do not explain the facts. The International Harvester Company president told me their business here, in Germany rose 33% a year (arms manufacture, I believe), but they could take nothing out. Even our airplanes people have secret arrangement with Krupps. General Motor Company and Ford do enormous businesses [sic] here through their subsidiaries and take no profits out. I mention these facts because they complicate things and add to war dangers.”
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090708092549AAlwOnY
Thank you very much, Jeff. For all. My dad, like all dad’s, was a great guy.
Hank, thanks for coming here today and doing such a great job trying to answer us all. And for all the work you’ve done over the years now. Just amazing.
Keep up your great work also, Jeff. You were a real inspiration for me in writing the book. Thanks everyone. Great questions.
Thanks Hank!
FYI, there was a book recently that caused a lot of controversy on IBM and the Holocaust, by Edwin Black
Signing off, thanks everyone! I very much enjoyed the past couple of hours, and learned a lot.
Michael Whitney is upstairs!
Progressive Caucus Whip Diane Watson Will “Hold Her Nose” and Vote for Senate Bill
Thanks, Hank. I’ll be getting your book this week and the one on White when it’s done.
Condolences on your dad. I was in Vietnam and like many others I cannot believe where we are in this country and how it’s all been done, a lot of it, with the complicity of many “good” people.
Jeff, much thanks to you as well.
Thank you for a wonderful Book Salon, one and all.
And that only scratches the surface.
I actually believe had Germany not declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor it would have been a crap shoot as to whether FDR could have got a declaration of war against them. The renewal of the draft in Nov. 1941 passed against GOP opposition by one vote.
btw you know IG Farben was owned by the Mengle family.
This is true of nations on the African continent also. Nigeria one of them is now having some cases of Polio type 2. This type is not naturally occurring and only used in live polio vaccine testing in the 50s and 60s. Not it is not related to AIDs but has had its own consequences.
This was another fantastic FDL Book Salon. You guys are great.
So hard to believe that I do not buy “arab-hating jew frames nice arab for 9/11 anthrax followup”
There were only 30 with the ability to make the packages – nationwide – 26 as I recall suggested only one of their colleagues as a “likely” (does not prove guilt but it kills the nonsense of ONE “arab hating jew” – Dr. Philip M. Zack – who was causing the problem the Arab fellow had).
Sorry to kill a “Jews are the problem” post like this – but afraid the info available in the public arena kills this nonsense. Why White House workers, including President Bush, began taking the drug to prevent reactions to anthrax nearly a month before anthrax was detected on Capitol Hill might be a more interesting story.
Bruce Edwards Ivins committed suicide when informed the investigation re anthrax had ended and he was the sole person who would be indited. But Bruce doesn’t have a Jewish name does he.
Len Colodny’s Silent Coup would be a Watergate bombshell if true – but it has been shown to be a few truths mixed with a lot of lies mixed with the standard GOP sex hangup ideas – like Dean’s wife to be a whore who Dean needed to protect. Good Grief – EU scandal media rejected the book as a bunch of lies – the BBC actually budgeted a series based on the book which after it investigated the allegations the BBC had to eat the money because they found the assertions to be unfounded or unprovable and indeed with near zero even low grade circumstantial provable events to back it up.
But he still sells a few copies every year – so you do have a successful author down the street from you.
I’m not fond of the Colodny book myself. However, it’s tale of Haig spying on Nixon, whether true or not, reminded me of a huge forgotten scandal from the 1970s (though not well known).
From a Counterpunch article by Joan Hoff, but here, Haig was spied upon (unless he was playing a double role) (emphasis is added):
Another reason they went after Anderson, too.
“Sorry to kill a “Jews are the problem” post like this”
Why are you getting defensive and concluding my motive to be anti-Semitism and not a search for the truth?
It’s charges like that which make people censor themselves when a culprit or suspect is Jewish. Did you react the same way during the Jack Abramoff and Bernie Madoff scandals? Would you prefer that Jews never faced the spotlight of inquiry?
“Why White House workers, including President Bush, began taking the drug to prevent reactions to anthrax nearly a month before anthrax was detected on Capitol Hill might be a more interesting story.”
More interesting than who mailed the Anthrax? If you say so.
Who was appointed by Bush to investigate the Anthrax attacks for the National Institute of Health? Jerome Hauer.
Why didn’t Hauer ask the White House who warned them to stop taking Cipro? Why did Hauer conclude that Al Queda was responsible for the Anthrax attacks?
Jerome Hauer was/is very prominent in the NYC Zionist community.
Jerome Hauer was the managing director of Kroll, which put him in charge of security for the World Trade Center on 9/11.
Jerome Hauer hired John O’Neill to run security at the WTC. 9/11 was John O’Neill’s first day on the job. John O’Neill was the head of the Bin Laden Unit at the FBI before quitting in disgust.
“Bruce Edwards Ivins committed suicide when informed the investigation re anthrax had ended and he was the sole person who would be indited. But Bruce doesn’t have a Jewish name does he.”
Bruce Ivins was a Catholic and a highly active Democratic voter. Why would he try to kill Leahy and Daschle, both Catholic Democrats, and why would he try to lay the blame on Muslims, like Jerome Hauer did?
Ivins’ therapist was under house arrest during her last sessions with Ivins, when she petitioned to have Ivins hospitalized. She also had multiple DUIs, and was pressured by the FBI to record her calls with Ivins after she sent him to the nut house. She claims he harassed her in these recorded phone calls, but he did no such thing.
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/archives/display_detail.htm?StoryID=100532
***MODNOTE: edited to remove flaming and statements intended to provoke
Jeff, did you just delete my lengthy rebuttal to papau’s accusation of Jew hating?
Listen to the Bruce Ivins phone messages left for his therapist, who had him committed to a mental hospital while she was under house arrest:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/archives/display_detail.htm?StoryID=100532
Chilling.
The only thing the FBI was ever sure of was that the Anthrax attacks were carried out by a lone nut. Of that they were always certain.
as moderator i moderated it
Please explain what section caused you to censor me, Suzanne. Censorship without explanation is even less cool. China comes to mind.
I know there is a general taboo against accusing Jewish individuals of anything, given the long history of anti-Semitism in the world.
Several Senators are highly suspicious of the FBI’s conclusion of the Anthrax investigations.
Sadly, none of them have the courage to hold a real investigation.
Have you ever moderated a comment that accused somebody of anti-Semitism?
I suppose I should have refrained from linking to the Israeli admission of organ harvesting. That was just to push his accusatory, tribal, wagon circling buttons.
read the modnote on your comment (scroll up to see it)
I’m fine with that Suzanne. It was intended to provoke, true and under-reported though it may be.
I’m sure I would have moderated it too, if them’s the rules.
China no longer comes to mind:)
:) thank you
The possibility of getting wacked was an aspect of the life which monsters like Frank Olson chose to lead.
How many of Korean War Era Vets *chose* to be subjects of the biological weapons testing which monsters like Olson subjected them to?
How many of the wives of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects chose to have to care for their debilitated young husbands and children in abject poverty?
How many of the children of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects chose to be born with birth defects owing to being sired by
a Korean War Era Biological Weapons Test Subject?
How many of the children of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects chose to be the captive audience of their debilitated young father rants about the Biological Weapons Tests the USG subjected him to?
How many of the children of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Testing chose to have to bear witness to their debilitated young father being hauled a way by the “Men in White Coats” for ranting about being the subject of Biological Weapons Testing?
How many of the children of Korean War Biological Weapons Testing chose to have to wonder whether their young father died of what the hospital claimed he died of, or, was murdered for ranting about being the involuntary subject of Korean War Era Biological Weapons Testing a decade or so before the USG acknowledged it’s Korean War Era Biological Weapons Tests on US Army Officers?
How many of the children of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects chose to wake up hungry, go to school hungry and go to bed hungry, whilst everyone else in America was pigging out during the Great Society?
How many of the grown-up children of Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects became the targets of the sinister activities of the corrupt USG precisely because their heritage had made them open-minded about the murder and mayhem which employees of the US are capable of?
How many of the grandchildren of the Korean War Era Biological Weapons Test Subjects grew up in abject poverty, because the grown up children of the Korean Era War Biological Weapons Test Subjects became the targets of the sinister activities of the corrupt USG because their heritage had made the children of Korean War Era Biological Weapons Test Subjects open-minded about the murder and mayhem which Frank Olson and other MONSTERS employed by the corrupt USG are capable of perpetrating against innocent people?
How many of the great-granchildren of the Korean War Era Biological Weapons Test Subjects…..
How many of the readers of this board give a rat’s arse about all the American families who have endured little other than pain, misery, hunger, humiliation, extreme hardship and abject poverty for four generations because of Monsters like Frank Olson?
“The conclusion I came to was that many physicians were quite patriotic”
Utter nonsense.
Every Post-WWII educated American, US Army Korean War Era Officer or otherwise, was the recipient of the same exact proposition.
Either, they participate in the nefarious activities of the fascist faction of the US Military-Industrial Complex, or, they risk becoming the crime victim of the nefarious activities being engaged in by the fascist faction of the US Military-Industrial Complex.
America’s Patriots were the educated Americans, US Army’s Korean War Era Oficers or otherwise, who become the crime victims of the fascist fact of the US Military-Industry Complex not merely because of their unwillingness to participate in it’s nefarious activities, but, as a direct result of the willingness of willingness of gutless, spineless, yellow-bellied, cowardly, monsters like Frank Olson to participate in the nefarious activities of the fascist faction of the post WWII US Military-Industrial Complex.
Have you any idea of the depth of the contempt which the children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren of the true 50′s era American Patriots have for you for trying to make big $$$ off the pain, suffering, misery, hunger, degradation, humiliation, and abject poverty which four generations of American families have endured as a result of the dastardly deeds of gutless, spineless, yellow-bellied, cowardly, monsters like Frank Olson?
Your reply is posted as you can see –
You do not address the “colleagues point finger at” point where those colleagues do not point to the Jew you tried to smear.
You do not address the fact that the Arab world tried to sell Jews did 9/11 – and your nonsense was part of that selling effort.
You do not address the fact you have no facts – nothing other than assertions. –
As to body part harvesting – rather than than “Israeli dead – and some Palestinian dead- used for transplants without proper family permission in some cases but practice of not always getting permission ended more than a decade ago” – you tried to imply the horrible in order to sell your hate of the Jew via your hate of the Israeli.
It is not “free speech” you appear to want – it is inaccurate speech
On this point we agree – given the word “sure” is very flexible.
Serial killers are not sane – so logic goes out the window. There were only 30 with the ability to be the anthrax person – only 2 likely at Detrick, Md.
Pick one.
Bond,
I read your open-letter to the individual who owes her presidency of the APA to being amonng the plethora of nefarious New Yorkers who have been being elevated to powerful positions since the sinister events took place in NY on 9/11/01.
Being you’re a psychologist, I assume you’ve read the publications of RD Laing.
If so, then you know that all social identities are complimentary in nature.
If so, then you know existence of a socalled criminal underworld isn’t a possibility in the absence of the existence of a criminal overworld.
Ergo, the criminal overworld is just as much a part of YOUR/OUR world as the criminal underworld is.
Think long and hard about the fact that the criminal underworld could’nt possibly exist in the absence of a criminal overworld before Goodheart or any other member of the criminal overworld ever goads you into ciphering an open letter to a member of the criminal overworld, again.
“You do not address the fact you have no facts – nothing other than assertions.”
“Dr. Philip Zack had the means, access to weaponized anthrax, exhibited hostile behaviours towards Dr. Ayaad Assaad, his colleague, and was caught on a security video two months after being fired entering without authorization a lab where anthrax samples went missing. The FBI knew of Zack and his unauthorized access to the lab, and Assaad had been questioned by the FBI in connection with the attacks.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zack
“You do not address the fact you have no facts – nothing other than assertions.”
You seem to have zero curiosity as to why Jerome Hauer never asked the White House why the started taking Cipro, and why he then blamed Al Queda for the Anthrax attacks.
You’d prefer to lay all blame at the guy who was committed and accused of harassment by a therapist who was under house arrest and working with the FBI who had already been viciously harassing the scientist.
“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”
-Albert Einstein
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/anthraxsuspect.html