Eli!

Elliott!

*waves weakly*

Hey there Eli!

but he’s still not ready to leave his comfort zone by cutting loose corporatist enablers

Yep, ‘fraid that’s the deal. That Corp Bubble Zone is pretty damn comfy yanno. Private planes, ultra-BlackBerry, personal security detail, list goes on. He can RELATE to them now.

Still, when *Rahm Emanuel* is your security blanket, it’s time to re-evaluate your priorities in life.

It would sure be nice to think somebody is getting the right message.

I must say, it ought to be obvious to the densest Dem by now that if Bayh, Lieberman, McCaskill, and god-help-me, Landrieu are for something, they need to be against it,a nd vice versa.
I used to like McCaskill, too, in the Bush era. Now, she seems to be digging in her heels and pulling the wrong direction on everything.

I absolutely do not understand why Obama wanted to be president if he was just going to sit back and let Congress destroy do everything by themselves.
I signed the petition Jane emailed; now, how can we get rid of Rahm and the Goldman Sachs gang?

The spin war over the lost election, I believe, is about the figures atop the national Democratic Party trying to protect the future of their anti-populist, pro-plutocrat, pro-corporate agenda. These figures want to have a specific narrative dominate in the media. They want the narrative to distract from what they have been doing, and its consequences. They want mass media to tend to maintain in media consumers a sense of internalized denial about the sources of anger at the national government and the faction currently in charge.

Lanny Davis doesn’t want anyone to remember what the current crop of Democratic officials were voted into office claiming in light of what some of these figures are doing now. Lanny Davis doesn’t want the mass media broadcasting the well-grounded anger of the broad public at what has transpired – the ongoing banker’s party/bailout, the ineffectual and deliberately stingy stimulus, the health insurance and pharmaceutical looting of the treasury … Lanny Davis doesn’t want people in the public who feel uncertain or undecided or disconnected to hear the message coming from the angry people who are aware of what’s happening to some real degree. He doesn’t want the anger spreading. He wants the mass media to work as an anesthetic.

That is the spin war in a nutshell – a handful of figures who are pointing out reality, and a larger handful of figures with deep pockets and high-level media connections trying to create in media an artificial and deeply incorrect picture of the national sentiment and what is behind that sentiment.

I suppose there’s a slim chance Rahm could get taken down by some kind of Fannie/Freddie dirt, but I certainly wouldn’t bet money on it.

I suspect that Obama will be a little less of a corporate dick if Rahm goes and is replaced by someone who isn’t the DLC’s avatar.

(And it is appalling to me that Burston-Marsteller er Mark Penn, Republican, is being presented as a Democratic consultant and allowed to advance his agenda in mass media. This is the guy who even as cynical a figure as Hillary Clinton had to toss in the river because of his nakedly anti-populist agenda. He is a snake and the grass and shouldn’t be on TV.)

Obama was in my state today doing what he does best TALKING. We will know if he really got the message when certain cabinet members start looking for other things to do. I dont think Obama understands that HE is part of the prblm. I believe he thinks he just needs to do a better job of communicating to us what he is doing and everything will be ok. It is step 4 time for Obama, he needs to do personal inventory and understand that saying one thing and doing another is not good politics it just makes people not trust you. One of his biggest problems is he is not trustworthy and all the railing about Wall Street doesnt change this. Pointing fingers at Wall Street is fine but Obama appears to lack core convictions for anything other than getting elected and getting a bill to sign. His lack of convictions is no match for the intensity of those who want him to fail, they will beat him everytime. So unless the other night was a road to Damascus event I dont expect him to change I just expect him to talk about it. Which is something he does real well.

Bayh, McCaskill, and Landrieu are only nominal Democrats. Leiberman, of course, isn’t even that. Thank heaven for very small favors. If anyone knows whether any of the dubious Dems can be dislodged, I’d love to hear it. Landrieu is from a political family, BTW.

True dat. “Tiny Dancer” is all “hold me closer.”

Blergh.

‘Evening, Eli;

“Maybe he’ll start firing people next December.”

That sounds very hopeful and change we can definitely believe in. (Yes we can).

Gosh golly, gee whiz, and delightfully animated horse feathers, this is great news … but Eli are ya sure? This guy has the reputation of being a cheap date and a no-show, but that’s prolly just an unfounded rumor arising from some simple, innocent misunderstanding.

Doncha think?

Always good to see you, Eli.

DW

“Someone left his cakewalk out in the rain.” That’s the kind of line that makes being an internet shut-in worthwhile. The foxhole conversions are getting pretty thick these days…..

Absolutely. The problem is that the outcome of the spin war has absolutely zero effect on the underlying reality; only whether the Democrats make it better or worse.

You know the cliche about the young idealistic politician who finds that he sometimes has to do the bidding of the corporations to stay in office so he can help the people? The Democrats have to sometimes do the bidding of the people if they want to stay in office so they can keep helping the corporations.

Message? They ain’t reading no stinkin’ message. Obama et al don’t care what MA voters were saying. We are acting like our votes or needs matter.

Everything changed with the SC ruling on “not so free speech”. We all knew it was coming but only the Villagers were really ready.

Mark Penn was probably at least 50-60% of the reason why I slightly favored Obama over Hillary.

They sound an awful lot like us, and I can’t remember the last time anyone at FDL said that Obama was too liberal and needed to compromise more.

Obama has been too liberal and needs to compromise more. (Just had to provoke ya.)

I landed on CSPAN, saw Obama and kept going. Channel “Change” I can believe in.

If his *only* core conviction were getting re-elected, he’d be acting a lot more forceful and a lot more progressive.

And while I certainly *prefer* a politician who is a genuine progressive at heart, I am willing to settle for one who pretends to be for their electoral survival (Kirsten Gillibrand may be a good example of this).

So if Obama makes that calculation and starts acting accordingly, I’m fine with that. The problem is that as soon as the pressure’s off, they start to backslide again.

I agree completely that, eventually, the Democrats are actually going to have to represent for real the people they wish to continue to construe as their “base” if they want to continue to have our votes. This utterly stupid faction has made the mistake of directly attacking its own voter base in deep ways, openly, and with impunity. I suspect the concept was that media spin and lesser-evilism would give them the 2010 elections somehow.

” … The problem is that the outcome of the spin war has absolutely zero effect on the underlying reality; only whether the Democrats make it better or worse …”

I think of it like this: the law of gravity doesn’t just apply to rocks tossed in the air or airplanes that suddenly lose power. It applies also to politics, economics – the Democrats can try to rely on media spin, or ten-cent sops to their base in legislation that is really about economic rape and the continued domination of a plutocracy fused with the political class. But it won’t work forever. The law of gravity applies to them and if as conditions faced by the middle class worsen, as the affronts to their base voters worsen, they will fall faster and faster earthwards.

Heh. You’re probably not the one who’ll get me to bite on that one.

Did any other than moi see the rabid Chris Matthews choking on his own saliva try to do a thing on Alan Grayson? Tacky Tacky. Delusions of grandeur do not begin to cover his ameboid ego.

Why did I watch? Because I am an idiot also. (sigh)

I was repelled by Hillary Clinton – she and her husband are nakedly cynical and self-serving politicians – but placing myself aside, it is certainly true that a snake-in-the-grass like Mark Penn probably didn’t help her play well with people who were open to supporting her candidacy.

As a ballet lover, I am highly incensed at that photoshop. :-)

Ha!

Right. You can make the most convincing and eloquent case imaginable that gravity works in reverse, but it still won’t make anything fall upward.

Hiya, DW! Long time no see!

Well that, plus I couldn’t let the comment stand for an instant with anyone thinking it was sincere. Some author might call me a wingnut troll.

Hey, I’m just glad he’s not an opera singer.

The perfidy, it BURNS!

Well, it’s not like I had a super-high opinion of Obama either. They both looked like lukewarm centrists to me; Obama had an edge on charisma, but he hasn’t really used it to anyone’s benefit but his own.

Hee. And the rest of us would have laughed our asses off.

I’ll match you and raise you one ballet dancer.

Loved being the butt of that joke. Another 15 seconds of fame.

You’re just a natural contrarian, aint’cha, eCAHN?

His voice has charisma but his demeanor is flat.

OK, I’ll match you one Callas, and raise you a Baryszhnikov!

(This is high stakes, people; stand clear!)

Claire McCaskill is, for my money, by far the most ridiculous senator in the democratic caucus. I’m sure that’s debatable, but everything about her, from her always insipid TV appearances, her moronic “tweets” and her predictable but still infuriating notion that Obama is too liberal – put it all together and you have a walking punch line.

And that is precisely what Lanny Davis wants you to believe – that things are falling upwards.

I think that it’s time for the Democrats – a party I’ve voted for repeatedly, and all the rest – to have their chickens come home to roost.

After 8 years of George Walker Bush’s abuses, the public needed to feel hope. The public needed to believe that there would be a clean break from the status quo.

Then along came a legion of operators – too many to name all of, but certainly including the infamous Rahm … Obama himself, without a doubt … Approximately half of the Senate … probably an equal proportion in the House … and a coterie of pawns including many Lanny Davises (Lannies Davis? I don’t know, you tell me how to pluralize him) and we got a message of hope.

Followed by this message: “Bend over and take it in the keister. This is the politically possible thing, you need to believe that, besides we’re being paid now just like the Republicans were to stick it to you and HARD. K Street became D Street. Oh yeah – vote for us in 2010″.

There are so many straws that can break the camel’s back. But a law that is so objectively tyrannical that we are suddenly required to buy the products of a well-connected and deep-pocketed industry, with no alternative, with no meaningful regulation of their prices, and upon pain of government retribution against us if we don’t … well, man that is one hell of a big straw, I tell you!

You wingnut troll!

The SC ruling changed the world again. The loss of the 60th vote also changed the world. Sometimes I think we don’t know it. There is nothing you can get past the senate today in health care in the new reality. You take what you already got in the house or forget it for this year. And next year won’t be any better with the SC ruling and the teabaggers out there. No leadership can change those new realities. If you don’t take Bernanke who will you take and do you really think the repugs will agree with you? Nah no chance Duke. And tell me what the poor stiffs(Bernanke or Obama)did on his own? They were trapped from day one, believe it. Take Bernanke, take the bill in the house and come out of this a winner and not a whining loser. Then man the barricades. Obama is likely a one termer followed by Palin, especially if we have NOTHING to say was accomplished.

In Tim Dickenson’s Oct. 2008 Rolling Stone article Make-Believe Maverick he described McCain and Baby Bush as having “failed upward.” It is a phrase that seems to accurately describe many in our ruling class.

Maybe the law of gravity can’t be repealed by you can obtain a waiver if you are well connected.

You can say that again -

Good God, man. The last thing I want to do is tell anyone is how to pluralize Lanny Davis.

I’ve been saying this from the beginning.

THE PUBLIC WANTS LIBERAL POLICY.

They’re not getting it, so Democrats are going to be massacred in the next election because they refuse to provide it.

I’m amazed it’s taken this long for the Democrats in power to actually learn this.

A MALE wingnut troll at that…

Odd that Rick felt it necessary to include a gender descriptor.

Didn’t particulary salivate over Baryshinikov. I saw Nureyev perform twice, goosebumps all over. Best ever, in my lifetime. Peter Martins is second. Didn’t do much opera, but I did see one of the two top tenors (can’t remember which) in Aida. He was over-the-hill, and I was not impressed.

Are you an author? I don’t accept insults from just anyone, ya know.

And still not all of them. And it remains to be seen just how well.

That was before my sex- and politcal-change operations. Betcha didn’t know that about me.

dayam, my saying something nice was for naught…

Remember good people! Pitchforks! Torches! Sally forth!! No, not the old comic strip, the act! The action! Vote Pitchfork Party in 2010!!!

Well I have written some things but if you mean “author” in the sense greater than your typical dive bar restroom graffiti maker I may have to be sniffed at by you …

… though let me tell you scrawling “For a good time, call .. []” does take a certain imprimatur that your average bastard just doesn’t have.

Alert – Bill Moyers talking w/ Melissa Harris-Lacewell and a man I don’t recognize about the ridiculous meme that Obama is too liberal, and that that’s why Coakley lost in Mass.

If you’re referring to my diary, I left you a reply. I accept compliments from everyone, but I’m pickier about insults.

i read it shortly after you wrote it — sorry i was unable to continue the conversation. got busy backstage…

Nice one.

Relenting. Insult accepted. :-)

Yep. Probably not by enough, sadly. They’re GOING to lose. There’s only one thing they as a party could do to stop the bleeding come the next election cycle, but it would take some HUGE BALLS that they aren’t willing to have.

not a question of balls — tis a question of having the spine and the guts to do it

Speaking of balls.

Have a look at these balls… Heh.

OK, what’s your beverage of choice this evening? *g*

We had opposite reactions – I was put off by various Obama statements and actions and inactions, and found Hillary to be the effective progressive liberal that I could trust (as part of the ins co exec’s that monitored our lobbying in 93 I knew her to be the only single payer advocate in the room – and the only one who fought Bill to get more liberal positions- sadly losing – - Bill rejected single payer as noted in her book- even before Bill gave her the job of chairing the Reform effort.

No matter – agree on Mark Penn – although he is good at his polling work.

But the crowing by the media is all about 2 things PROVE the left is rejected – the Brown result – and the Air America bankrupcy

What the major media does not seem to want to understand is that a drop in Dem votes by 9000000 relative to Nov 08 while the GOP vote remained the same means the base stayed home for some reason

And as to Air America, the bankruptcy’s land station effect on left wing radio – what little there is of it – always on the weaker signal stations because they are 15 years late to the party relative to the right – is limited to Air America’s Ron Reagan Jr. who was carried by most. Most of the other shows that fill the airtime on land stations and on XM’s America left are not via Air America hosts — Bill Press and Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann and Randi Rhodes are distributed by other companies.

I swear our media is determined to believe only GOP PR handouts.

eCAHN – I’m with you on Nureyeve v. Baryshnikov — at my 2nd Nureyev performance, I found myself standing near the front of the stage iwthout quite remembering how I got there. Swooooonnnnnn…

Is the diary Suze referred to up now?

I fell asleep. That’s where I am these days, falling asleep to that sputtering and twitching. No wonder I have bad dreams.

Missed by THAT much!

Evidently post-op eCAHN is more aerodynamic.

well, as long as we’re talking about body parts, i’ll see your spine and guts and raise you a conscience and a heart. yes, i know, we’re all talking about science fiction.

She’s slick!

Hi greenwarrior.

I hope there has been some improvement for your neighbor’s son.

Having spine and guts is a matter of choice, not a matter of inborn quality. There are incredibly practical strategies for getting single-payer pushed through SUCCESSFULLY, but they’d require DIRECTLY opposing the corporate donors that contribute, and they’re not willing to make that CHOICE.

Into scotch. Make it a single malt. As Hugh said, it’s a virtual bar. You can afford to be generous.

Or they just need to be more afraid of the voters than they are of the corporations, media, and Republicans.

You’re going to need tape to stay competitive, Kelly.

Not after KC’s drink offering.

* slides a La Phroaig down the bar eCAHN’s way…*

Ah booze… is there ANYTHING it can’t do?

Eli @ 72

Which would be great. If we could get them to be. But they know as well as anybody that voters will not choose to vote for third parties instead of them. And they know that liberals and progressives are too scared of Republicans in power to jeopardize Democrats in power.

In short, they don’t have anything to be worried about, and they know it.

So how do you make pols be afraid of voters after SCOTUS ruling? There are enough low info voters around to cast their ballots in the direction of the TV ads. This is a serious Q. Looking around for ideas on how to do it.

*sipping* Thanks.

I’m not a guy. I wouldn’t know.

It’s killed quite a few of my friends right there in C-U.

Obama is likely a one termer

Any chance we’ll see someone wanting to primary Obama?

thanks for asking, he was released to a rehab unit. he’s been sitting, standing a bit, talking some, sometimes coherently. sleeping a lot, which the docs say is good to heal his brain. for those who don’t know what i’m talking about the next door neighbor’s 16 year old had a bad fall/concussion from falling with his new skateboard. dad had said to wear a helmet, but…. in any case, he’s improving.

The truth is, the only message that came out of MA was a voice of anger…the same pretense that got Obama elected. All that has to happen is for employment to drop a couple points, he can change the entire message.

The “Brown Revolution” has nothing to do with a conservative message. The people came together because they had a common enemy.

The SCOTUS ruling might be the most frustratingly nefarious act of government I have ever witnessed, since with their lifetime appointments the Supremes are essentially untouchable.

That’s my biggest worry. We were fucked enough even without Citizens United.

But right now the dissatisfaction is so deep that it’s hard to imagine any amount of campaign cash being enough to smooth it over – or redirect it.

(((greenwarrior’s friend))) I hope it turns out well.

I’d pretty much lost the desire to imbibe even before my prescription meds made it a necessity.

That’s Eric Alterman.

I’m thinking along the lines of how to influence the low-info voter, but not coming up with anything. My country house is in a small town, and I can see door-to-door working there. But any larger community, citizen action cannot be powerful enough to overcome advertising.

If I had an answer, I’d be screaming it from the rooftops.

Addendum. There’s also Hugh’s prerevolution meme which comes up on many threads because there are so many provocations for it. But while that may happen, I see it much later. (Hugh & I seem to disagree consistently on how soon things can happen.)

Yeah – and with the “instant disclosure” piece (have yet to see how transparently that’s going to work) I wonder how many Corps want their brand associated with specific legislation/parties?

For instance at my work we were talking about getting a celebrity sports endorsement. I brought up “Look, that sport is notorious for bad behavior. What happens when the guy beets a girlfriend, gets a DUI, etc?”

So we decided no. ANd I can see the same thing happening wrt this decision. But it depends how “loop-hole-y” the transparency piece really is.

Need to find pols who aren’t interested in careers in Congress, but only want to make an impact during a single term. They can use the corporate $$$ to get elected, then eff thier sponsors and vote on the people’s behalf.

Sounds very encouraging. Best wishes to all.

If I had even a lame idea, I’d be typing it in FDL comments.

when i saw it yesterday, the only thing that came out of my mouth was “BASTARDS”. this was why in 2000 i worked for a presidential election for the first time. there were going to be those supreme court vacancies. and roberts was one of those lawyers down in florida fixing the results. then came the supreme court selection of bush. one good turn deserved another. roberts became chief justice and here we are. greenwarrior synopsis of recent history.

Yea, it was so central to my life for so long and when it was gone I realized it didn’t mean shit. Another corporate scam pulled on people IMHO.

The answer is to hold your own party to higher standards than you hold your enemies.

If your party says that they want health care reform for all Americans, you make them fight for it. If they say they want to be more transparent, you bitchslap them when they are not. If they say they’re going to provide jobs, you force them to do so. If they say they’re going to stand up to the big banks, you MAKE them do it.

Republicans DON’T MATTER. Honestly, I tell people this and nobody gets it. We can’t control Republicans, we don’t vote for Republicans, we don’t CARE about Republican ideas and ideology. We need to stop worrying about how bad they are and worry more about how good WE can be.

A LOVE LETTER TO CONGRESS

As Dickens said through Marley’s Ghost, “Mankind was my business.”

Mankind IS our business.

We have a Government, it does not have us.

The Government is unique in that it is charged with giving more rights, rather than taking away rights of the people.

“Promote the general welfare” commands action for the common good.

The safety of the Nation is the First duty of the federal Government.

Any Disaster be it natural, economic, military, or unsustainable costs of health care or energy,
Only the Federal Government can act effectively.
It is big enough to get the job done.
If we have an enemy we will defeat them.
We will give our sons and daughters and treasure to be free.
If we have a natural disaster we will be better prepared for it if possible.
If our economy should become dysfunctional, only the Federal Government can spend enough to stimulate the recovery.
This is the time to be bold.
A dysfunctional economy is as large a threat to our country as any Military we have ever faced.
A broken health care system not accessible to all kills 45,000 a year unnecessarily.
Another 200,000 die every year from largely preventable Hospital infections and errors.

Countless become impoverished due to illness, an obscene recurrence in a country with enormous wealth.

You serve the American People, all of them. All the time.
NO FOOLING
As Fred Sanford used to say to Lamont.”I brought you into this world and I can take you out.
Now stop all this childish bickering and get to work.
NO FOOLING
Love,
JQP

ask Mary Jane….

you make them fight for it

How? Not a rhetorical or snarky Q. Looking for techniques, processes.

Can’t wait to read the history books on this and the prior SCOTUS. Oh wait. They’ll be written after I’m dead.

If they refuse to listen to liberals or progressives, STOP VOTING FOR THEM. It’s really simple. Form another party. Make them piss their pants and fall all over themselves trying to win disaffected voters back.

you might be grateful you missed it.

I altered my consciousness in nearly every way possible but most of the really stupid shit happened when I was drinking.

Evidently it was just an environmental thing for me because when my setting changed I gradually lost any desire to drink.

We have a Government, it does not have us.

Links?

Yes, there’s always that. Sigh.

Eli, every time I refresh, I study the picture. After Kelly’s contribution, I think I’m beginning to be able to read the handwriting on the wall.

I’d about concluded they’d never legalize it in my lifetime but with so many states feeling the budget crunch…

Mark Penn is EXTREMELY unattractive,even standing on top of all his money

Possibly my favorite Woody Allen quote: “I don’t want to be remembered for my work, I want to be remembered for not dying.”

You know what the original “handwriting on the wall” is?

From the book of Daniel in the Bible. “Mene mene tekel, upharshin.”

Translated it means: “It has been counted and counted, weighed and divided.”

Very apt for this post.

Well, that’s the way Jammy wrote it. http://www.billofrights.gov

Didn’t know that. Thanks.

plus ca change

Smarty pants.

I think Jane has already started the process. Have candidates sign a vow of office stating clearly what they will or won’t do. I would think her goal is to have the document signed before the election in the future. If they lie, carpet bomb the news, especially as they campaign.

The Constitution and amendments are piece of paper. I’m asking for evidence that that pols pay any attention, or that voters can make them, or in the absence of that, techniques of processes that we can try to pressure pols to do what we want.

ca change you can believe in?

It’s a remnant of my Jebbie education, and there’s hardly any more ancient Aramaic I know anymore, except for 2 things I pull out on wingnuts and fundies.

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthani? which are Jesus’ next to last words.

And then Jesus’ actual name in his own language would be “Yeshua bar Yussuf.” So I often ask wingnuts about that terrorist Yeshua bar Yussuf and that he should be on a no-fly list, right? THey always agree, then I pull the punch.

Rude, I know, but effective at exposing ignorance.

Stop voting for Democrats that cave on what you want. Tell them it’s all or nothing with you. I know you think that that’s excessive, but NOTHING ELSE YOU DO will get through to the party or the elected officials.

Love Jane. Follow her like a puppy in every thing she tries. More & better Ds looked like a great plan until most candidates ActBlue supported turned their backs on us once they were elected. I’ll tie into whatever Jane tries. Lord knows, she has more ideas than a faculty-full of Harvard profs. But success doesn’t seem to be happening. Every big announcement makes it worse. (Scuse my more-than-normal pessimism; it’s been a bad week.)

You underestimate your own power.
Just try to sleep with but a single mosquito in your chamber.
Are you greater than an insect?
I have no doubt that you are.

Turning lemons into lemonade (or lemon meringue pie) I see. Jebbie ed indeed.

I’d about concluded they’d never legalize it in my lifetime but with so many states feeling the budget crunch…

yeah all the legislators got the munchies….

A nice metaphor, but I’ll note for the record that you didn’t answer the Q. Not to mention all the human deaths caused by mosquitos, despite the greater power of humans.

Aloha, Eli and Pups…! ;-)

Aloha, CTut!

This week sucks. One of the main reasons the process hasn’t produced optimal results is because it is so novel, and because the representative is already seated. That process may yield fruit yet, possibly in November.

I believe new candidates may take the vow more seriously than the 10-year criminal in senator’s garb. I really think it can be done and if the people are ever to retrieve their collective power, it will be this kind of effort and pressure exerted that begins the reversal. If it has the right wind behind it, faster than we might think.

So many complications with your simplistic solution. Voters, myself included, behave in complicated ways. Pols react in complicated ways. The subject of this post is the ultimate example of that. Voters in MA, irrefutable poll evidence, shows that they want more progressive policies. Villagers insist that the MA results mean they must move farther to the right. How does the MA result (assuming that you could get enough people to do what you propose) show that voting against Ds who disappoint, or abstaining, advances your agenda? It could have the opposite outcome.

One of the main reasons the process hasn’t produced optimal results is because it is so novel, and because the representative is already seated. That process may yield fruit yet, possibly in November.

Are you saying that ActBlue candidates will behave better in the future than they have in the past? If so, why?

Just a few ideas, some from experience.

There are neighborhoods. Look at what the monster Christians described by Bruce have done. There are also various community organizations that while not openly political they are good places to network and as well just demonstrate you way of thinking.

Right now I live in a small community — all red — but just showing up at the commissioners meetings and advocating for poor or minority people, or asking the election board what provision do they have to accomodate non-English speaking citizens, etc has an impact.

Gregg Levine is upstairs!
Late Night: The Purple Presidency of Doom

You are not rude, Kelly

Rather, you are a warrior possesed of appropriate “weapons” (a facile mind and a ready wit) and the sense of timing to know when to use them.

Have much appreciated and enjoyed your comments, I’ve not been commenting for a couple of months, but I’ve been appreciating and your presence here is definitely noteworthy.

DW

Yeah – another way to say that is that the Conventional Wisdom works like a spreadsheet, in two dimensions, Rows and Columns. Tote up some numbers and, voila, answer.

The reality is more of a cube, 3 dimensional, vectoring through real space, not just through 2 dimensions, and since that is way more difficult for most people, the easier 2D answer is preferred.

Voters in MA, irrefutable poll evidence, shows that they want more progressive policies.

Villagers insist that the MA results mean they must move farther to the right.

The villagers are either ignorant or lying. And WHY should you worry about them if that’s all they are?

How does the MA result (assuming that you could get enough people to do what you propose) show that voting against Ds who disappoint, or abstaining, advances your agenda?

Alright, I want you to suspend your own personal mind for a second. Put yourself in the shoes of an elected politician, regardless of party. You know that if you want to get re-elected you need a few things. You need money (usually) and you need votes. You more often than not CANNOT accomplish anything without these two things. Now money is often gotten from people with lots of it, for example, corporations (there are others, but for the sake of this instance let’s just use them.) You COURT corporations and tell them that in exchange for their money you’re going to do certain things for them with the powers of your office. BUT you realize that this might not go over so well with the OTHER group you have to court, voters. Now sometimes corporations can sway voters to vote for you but more often than not voters are stubborn creatures that think of themselves first. You get voters in a few different ways. By having a ‘D’ or an ‘R’ after your name. (Come on, I know you can tell me that you’ve voted for a Democrat in the past in a local election without knowing ANYTHING about him or her other than that they’re Democrats) By promising people that, once elected, you’ll do things for them (remember this is the same strategy you used on the corporations to get money, just with a different tit-for-tat) You can also get votes by knowing people personally, meeting people personally, etc.

If you’re a politician and the interests of the money donors and the interest of the VOTERS line up, then you’re in hog heaven. You simply get the best of both worlds.

But when the interests of the corporation and the interests of the voters are diametrically opposed, you’re in a pickle. You HAVE to choose one over the other. And most politicians will choose the money because they assume it can help them buy more voters down the road.

Does this make sense, to begin with?

Another excellent post, Eli…!

Thanks, CTut!

Well thank you. That is very nice of you.

Yeppers, Eli always provides a good time and attracts interesting people, CTut.

Good to see you, BTW.

:~DW

As I typed in an earlier comment, I think individuals can have an influence in small communities. But that model does would not seem to be scalable, as in large communities, advertising overpowers community activism, which does not reach the low-info voters.

OK, I’ll tell you exactly who made power listen, and how they did it.

You did with your desire to make things better for your self and your family.
You did with your salient remarks.
You did when you complained about a dangerous intersection.
You did when you drove your drunken friend home.
You did when you stopped a fight over nothing.
You did when you studied for the love of it.
You did it …….
Please don’t quit

But when the interests of the corporation and the interests of the voters are diametrically opposed, you’re in a pickle. You HAVE to choose one over the other. And most politicians will choose the money because they assume it can help them buy more voters down the road

That’s precisely the issue. I didn’t see anything in your prior comment to counter that.

Can’t remember a single instance when my desires to make things better made a shit load of difference for any pol.

For one thing, being a new rep and being bombarded with the intimidation techniques not only of Rahm but by the titanic specters of the insurance or financial lobbies would have an effect on most freshmen. I’m sure some wanted to do what’s right, but got cold feet. There are very few Graysons out there. But he would be a perfect ally in this venture. Just as we are done listening and want to see actions, so do these freshmen. At least there is SOMEONE walking the walk.

I suspect there are some reps who are pissed off by the WH treatment and would love a little retribution, as well.

An alliance of Grayson and Dean would be a good start. Let them write the precepts for the document. And update the vows in accordance with the issues by election.

For starters.

Gotcha. But that is not enough.

Moving upstairs for anyone who has a reply to my prior comments.

Yes, yes I know!

I just wanted to make sure you understood the basics.

ALRIGHT. Now. Let’s see. Continuing on. So let’s say a politician chooses the moneyed interests over the voters. Well, the moneyed interests by and large cannot vote in large enough numbers to get their ‘investment’ elected. Only voters can. Like it or not, that’s how democracy works, and thankfully so.

If a politician legislates on behalf of the moneyed interests, it pisses off the voters. And rightfully so. BUT this is the crucial moment where the voters have control over the situation. If enough of them say ‘you’re not getting my vote’, the elected official falls from power. And not only do the moneyed interests then lose the investment they made, the official is no longer able to make legislation on behalf of the moneyed interests and against the voters.

You see? UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU EVER VOTE FOR SOMEONE THAT IS NOT UPHOLDING YOUR PERSONAL INTERESTS AS A VOTER. Don’t vote for what they represent, don’t vote based on race, gender, religion, don’t vote based on Democrat or Republican, don’t vote based on handsomeness or intelligence or origin or anything, ONLY VOTE BASED ON WHAT POLICY THE PERSON WILL ADVANCE THAT BENEFITS YOU.

This is the second thing I want to make sure is clear. Any question so far, because I’ve got more.

Still so pissed, I’m cross-eyed, and now I’ve lost all my originality, so I’ll just rip off Jon Stewart circa the evening of 1/18/10:

“It’s not like the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are playing checkers. It’s more like the Republicans are playing chess, and the Democrats are IN THE NURSE’S OFFICE BECAUSE THEY HAVE, ONCE AGAIN, TAPED THEIR BALLS TO THEIR THIGHS!!!!!!!”

What she should have done that I said was say no to the help from WH, that would have turned out the vote for her.

Always vote on their record, what they say they will do and if they do it. Don’t vote based on race, religion, etc.

Voted for Democrat Pat Leahy, Independent Bernie Sanders and yes republican Jim Jeffords. They voted for the people of Vermont not for their party but their conscience.

Good on ya. Keep it up.

Maybe, maybe not. It’s pretty fresh. Holding up signed documents as the signer begins to back out is a powerful visual and has consequences. of course, I’m only speculating on Jane’s game plan, but if I’m wrong I still like the notion.

When a pathetic corporate hack like Carly Fiorina polls within three points of Barbara Boxer it’s time for the Democrats to fish or cut bait. If you promise change you can believe in and then give everyone the same old crap, then you get change of party representation. I’m old enough to see time after time that when you need a liberal, even radical change and you get Republican-lite, voters are going to go with the real deal.

I remember a poster here on FDL referencing a president that said something like ‘Why vote Republican-lite when you can have the real deal’ and it’s SO true.

Democrats should become MORE liberal and get MORE liberal policy pushed through if they want to survive. Otherwise, they’ll be out in the next election.

It is rare that a person can cut through the fog of indifference.
It has happened in a small way before, I saw it.
I know it will happen again, and again.
Until it either becomes unnecessary or impossible.
They hate it when you succeed.
Take their money.
If all you can do is to complain, then do that!
Tom Lehrer:”There are people in this world who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that”

‘

Illigamate non carborundum

Even if Dems don’t become more Liberal, keeping Republicans (Landreau, Bad-Nelson, Lincoln) and traitors (Lieberman) out of the party and out of the policy caucuses would be a good start.

Bureau of Republican Affairs

Okay, that’s KIND of the right thinking, but not entirely. I don’t care particularly about Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, Lincoln, etc, they honestly don’t matter. Only their votes do. If we keep them around and Democrats decide to muscle them into BEING FORCED TO VOTE FOR LIBERAL POLICY, what does it matter if they’re Republicans or DINOs or anything?

I’d much rather put the Fear of God into them and make them never hold up legislation again (ala Ben Nelson) than I would to simply throw them out.

They all have weaknesses, and those weaknesses can be very easily exploited.

My point being that jettisoning these 4 miscreants would give the Democrats 56, assuming they all were gone the day Obama took office.

There is plenty to suggest that if the White House starts with around 55, instead of the vaporous 60, they begin the term knowing damned well that they have to fight.

Bureau of Republican Affairs
Reservations suggested
That is.

In 2012 he will be a stark raving mad progressive, trust me. His rhetoric will make Kucinich look like a teabagger. It is going to be fun to watch.

I see. I failed to note your focus on low info voters.

Much of my work, certainly in the early years, was serving “low information” people (voters). I think my actions alone had an influence, if in an indirect way. The great gift it gave me was a comfort level and understanding in communicating with that group. I never fail to try to make some points with workmen and women who come to the house.

Do you think part of the hold up is a lot of us just don’t feel at home on a personal basis with people who have a differing life situation?

I had not really reflected until now but I realize when I hear my peers talking about recruiting among those folks, my first advice is go work in the thrift shops and food banks and get to know their church leaders etc.

And then in 2013…

Love yer thread Eli, and I’m all for a new battle cry.

“Dump Rahm, Timmy, Larry, and more, pissed haste!”

Can’t stay and tweak at trolls, but I’m sure you are earning your fair share.

The more and more you and FDL picks the scab of reality that infects the masses, the more the entrenched fucks will attack you and your threatening thoughts, means and ways.

Attack!

Sure, you could do that. Or you could simply use the ones you have now…

I would say take the shortest path from A to B. They can fight with the numbers they have NOW. And they can fight by strong-arming the four you mentioned (and more) into doing what they want.

It’s pointless to throw them out and then fight unless throwing them out is your last resort.

Thanks, Larue! Sounds good to me. They may reflect Obama’s own proclivities, but that’s part of the problem. He needs someone to tell him that he needs to change course, not someone who keeps telling him to stay it.

How many Teabaggers does it take to change a light bulb?

A. 20, 19 to curse the darkness and one to go to Wallmart in the middle of the night to buy a multipac of bulbs only to return to discover it was the light switch all along.

Aw Mary, say it ain’t so . . . you NEVER give up, and I won’t let ya give up now

-Bluto

“You know, I’ve only been here a week or so, but frankly, I’ve been treated by the regulars, the commies, the Marxist Hamshers, as if I was the worst incarnation of Hitler or Mussolini. I’m just trying to bring some SENSE into all this left wing provocation and hate that’s ruining our country. You people need to look deep into that mirror and decide, are you FOR America, or are you AGAINST it. And hating me is a telling tool as you gaze into that pool of silvered glass.”

/s

Barishakov, Bancroft, Turning Point, where does relevé right up onto demi pointe and hold our centre tight live when there’s no where to go . . . *G*

Huh, Opera v Ballet?

Big ladies in Viking Armor and Breastplated, against tutu’s?

I’m worried about ya . . . . ;-)

Yeah it’s BEEN 7 years or more but we’ve finally outed her.

Wonder who’s payin her, n if it’s by the word or comment . .

*G*

That meme has been at The Lake for years . . .

It’s not new, it’s not yours.

Catch up Young Sis . . . *G*

Young Sir, actually ;p

It may not be new, but WE seem to forget that more often than not. There are so many people that tell me that the country is right of center or totally moderate or other political myths. WE need to realize that the public is behind the policies we advance.

This is FDL and we should never forget the mission that FDL was built on. We didn’t come this far to lose.

But it won’t work forever. The law of gravity applies to them and if as conditions faced by the middle class worsen, as the affronts to their base voters worsen, they will fall faster and faster earthwards.

well, the law of gravity can be revoked if you simply yell at it, and try to guilt trip it, and subject to moderation orders those who mention it. right?

Here’s an email I wrote to Dennis Kucinich. I’m wondering if any of you kill-the-bill folks care more about people like me than you hate compromise with the insurance co.s and so forth.

Please Rep. Kucinich,

Please, Please, Please! I understand your anti-corporate insurance stance. I dream of single-payer. I’m extremely mad at the Senate for its ridiculous capitulations to self-serving jerks, and at Pres. Obama for failing to really lead.

But PLEASE vote for the Senate version, as is, now. We need to change the momentum fast or the chance for any change will totally disappear. Then we can work hard to make the necessary changes, maybe even get a real public option through reconciliation. If not, it’s all over, and the worst repubs will get power back.

I always appreciate your willingness to tell the truth and fight. But please fight for me on this! I am a 33 year-old with a wife and son. I have a rare form of muscular dystrophy. If I can’t get a job in the next couple of years I may lose my health insurance. The Senate bill would keep that from happening. Please, please, please don’t say no just to make a point. Thank you.

I think it’s really miserable that people like you are the people taken hostage in this whole debate, and your ability to make a democratic choice is taken away from you because you’re desperate for health coverage. If it were up to me, you’d have the health care you need right now.

But, I’m going to be entirely honest with you, and if I hurt your feelings, I take full responsibility for it. I can’t support the current bills as they are because your pain and suffering are merely being used as pretexts to truly advance someone else’s agenda. I’m sorry you’re in the situation you’re in, and I’m going to continue to fight to make it better, but I simply cannot capitulate to the people that want to utilize your misery and despair as a means to enrich themselves. You shouldn’t have to be a hostage in this whole process, and it is for that very reason I’m fighting for something better.

My deepest condolences.

And if that doesn’t work you can always find a congresscritter to pass a law!

Great post. I feel the deal should at least be Geithner (and maybe Summers) goes, in exchange for Ben Bernanke being reappointed. Maybe Volcker would be willing to come out of retirement and do a year or two as Treasury Secretary.

What comes around goes around you know. I remember as a teenager how badly Paul Volcker was vilified for deepening the 1980-82 Recession. (The “Great Recession” of that day.)

Now he looks like the Wise Old King compared to three or four know-it-all boobs that Obama seems to have inherited last January.

If I know the Dems, they will use their humiliation in Massachusetts as an excuse to turn right.

Bad Democrats use everything as an excuse to turn right.

“My Only God Is Rahm,” A Satyre:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/comedy/watch/v19698461hFAdRCea

Exactly right! But be prepared for the angry criticisms of the self-deluded true believers who will excoriate you and your third party candidate for allowing the greater of the two evils to win.

Well said Eli. I think this poll has yet to sink in. there’s a lot of interesting stuff there.

If you look at this from the perspective that corporations own both parties, everything seems to be right on schedule. They tell you what you want to hear to get elected then they proceed with the corporate plan once elected.
I think that to succeed and become one of the greatest presidents this nation has known, all President Obama had to do was fight for what he campaigned on. If congress and others who work for corporate interests instead of their constituents refused to follow they should have been forced into the open, like the traitorous corporate puppet leiberman. Forcing the corrupt politicians into the open by their votes against the public interest in favor of corporate profit. This would have allowed us to remove the rest of the trash in the next election. We needed but did not require results NOW. We only needed a champion to try to do what was right, expose the corrupt corporate puppets then struggle on till the next election and beyond.
Instead we got more lies. This health care bill, which is total garbage, is rejected by the people as demonstrated by the Mass rebellion against this disastrous attempted handover of national wealth to private corporate interests. The white house is spewing disinformation, propaganda and lies regarding this message from Mass. They infer that Obama is too far to the left. This is an outrageous fabrication by people who know better. Fact is people are pissed that President Obama has surrounded himself with the same criminals running the show when bush was destroying the fabric of the country. We’re pissed cus NOTHING has changed, except the fact we replaced a spoiled disillusioned retard with a Harvard grade intelligence. Where’s the change? Nothing pisses me off more than being lied to by an elected official.
It is pretty clear, we cannot trust either party at this point. We need patriots to take back our govt. We don’t need more lies, promises and excuses, we need results. At this point more than ever it’s us, the people vs the corporations and the congress they own. We need a revolt at the polls. We need someone like dennis kusinich. We need to flush out the corrupt puppets of the corporations that are getting fat on our dime in congress.
I’ll still give President Obama 3 more years, but the hope is gone, replaced by the images of corporate profits, ceo bonuses, the gang of FED, wars that have nothing to do with protecting America, govt spying on Americans, a shredded broken constitution and dying hungry sick Americans.
Three years seems like a terribly long time.

Well done, dreams, and my condolences as well to you, emptyfull.

That Moyers program with Eric Alterman and Melissa Harris B. was a joke.
Melissa was basically the female counterpart of Obama with all the fancy talk, analysis, rationalizations, No Substance. Alterman was more of the same. Neither came to grips with the Obama’s betrayal of his campaign promises and his weak kneed approach to issues such as health care, jobs, financial reform. Both these people were an embarrassment to Progressives whom they claimed to speak for. Moyers looked non plused and troubled.

Obama has lied so much this past year, double talked, struck back room deals with insalubrious industry principles, that who is to trust his so called populist awakening. When you know someone is a proven liar, anything else he says, is not to be trusted. That Elyria appearance was just another charade, and I am surprised there were no hecklers in the crowd, or protesters.
Obama went to Ohio to convince himself that he had a bunch of people sitting behind him, who were staring at him in adoration. It won’t sell across the country when it counts at the ballot box.

Why not find real PROGRESSIVES who will stand up to and confront Obama with his deception, to primary in 2010 elections. Instead of having the Republicans storm in as the so called populist wave, why not work on finding insurgents without the DEM party label who will go to work for the people.

I agree.

In 2008, only one in ten voters polled mentioned healthcare reform as a priority. In 2009, voters showed up at townhalls throughout America, and voiced their dislike for healthcare reform. Then later in 2009 – after politicians ignored those voters – the Democrat Party loss races in Virginia and New Jersey, again showing that healthcare reform is not as popular as some polls might suggest. In Massachusetts, Brown ran against healthcare reform, and won…in Massachusetts! Personally,IMHO, election results trump all polls.

My letter to Barbara Boxer
Dear Senator Boxer,

I am a registered Democrat but I am strongly considering a switch to Independent due to
what has transpired in Congress during the past year.

The Health Care Reform legislation has NOTHING to do with reforming health care. The bill in the Senate is essentially a gift to the insurance and pharma industries. Please know that Americans realize what’s up and are not happy and will register their discontent at the ballot box. You may be the next congressional casualty after Coakley.

Obama and Congress have IGNORED the PEOPLE. Both have shut down the public option and the expanded medicare proposal because of rogues Lieberman, Ben Nelson and a bunch of other Corporate Blue Dog Dems including Lincoln and Landrieu. You, Senator Boxer are supposed to be cut of a different cloth but you went along with the sheep herd and did NOT stand up for those who put you in office. What a shame!

The drug reimportation bill once supported by Obama and put forth by Byron Dorgan was
demolished. The Senate and House bill force mandates on Americans to prop up and support
the INSURANCE industry and their lobbyists.

It is becoming increasingly clear that
Senators are in the main answerable to their big insurance fundraisers and lobbyists and not the PEOPLE. Unless you come out strongly for a robust public option, oppose taxing so called Cadillac insurance plans, support expanded medicare for 55 to 64 year old Americans, I cannot and will not support your re-election in 2010. Having spoken to many other friends who voted for you term after term they feel the same way as I do. It would be wise for the President and members of Congress to glean the real message sent by Mass. voters. They were fed up with big talk, and no do–with back room deals struck with Insurance companies–lack of transparency and accountability.. phony promises about the public option and easy sellouts. We are all waiting for the C-span coverage of the back room dealings.. or back stabbings.

Why not find real PROGRESSIVES who will stand up to and confront Obama with his deception, to primary in 2010 elections. Instead of having the Republicans storm in as the so called populist wave, why not work on finding insurgents without the DEM party label who will go to work for the people.

You are asking to find someone who has a modicum of interest in serving and advocating for the needs of others. In a land where Greed is Good and love of others the unforgivable sin that is hard to do.

Cynically yours,