Democrats capitulating?

Whoever could have etc etc etc.

LOL!

You’ve got to know when to hold ‘em
Know when to fold ‘em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

Who is reeling? Why are they reeling?

Brown said it himself..he was elected by a vast majority of .. Independants…Lieberman is an independant.

Last time I checked there was an independant or two in Congress, alot of republicans…and a “BoatLoad” of Democrats…who happen to be the vast majority. They were elected by people..that elected them to do a couple of things, fix the economy, fix the war, fix human rights and FIX HEALTHCARE.

Or at least do .. do everything, everything they possibly could to fix health care and at the very, very minimum that means to pass something, pass something. Not talk about it, think about it, debate it, talk about it, stall it, ponder it. Thats over. Now Pass it !!!! Just Pass it and sign it into law. It dont take rocket science. It takes leadership. So write your congressman and woman and tell em to get it done, Now.

“Get it done”

what is this ‘it’ you refer to?

could it be the Senate Bill?

because, some say

The Senate bill is a travesty for a variety of reasons, but anyone who thinks that passing some shitty bill is going to help the Dems in 2010 is dreaming.

and those folks who voted for Obama thinking they would get real health care reform have already had a wake up call they won’t soon forget.

Breakin’ up the banksters … Pati labelle – “Stir It Up” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIb00Sj7Ru4)

Yeah, that’s the ticket. Pass a piece of shit bill just to declare victory no matter how many folks already know that it is a POS and that it will ultimately do nothing but enrich the insurance companies.

Talk about yer re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

“Get it done.”

And while you’re at it, tell the Republicans to go fuck themselves. Because that’s what they’ve been telling you, Mr. President.

Don’t do it unless you’re going to do it right. Eat a well-deserved hunk of humble pie, and start over.

As I wrote back in June:

We seem to be headed toward an inscrutably hyper-complex re-jiggering of our no-value-adding “health care” paper-pushing industry. I hope I’m wrong.

I have yet to see anything to allay that skepticism. In fact, things looks to have gotten worse.

Get what done? What’s cooking in Congress now after a yr. is a big smelly Corporatist Turd that was part of your losses in Nov. in Va., & Nj and Mass the other day. People don’t want these Corp. bail outs sell-outs and give aways and they are especially repulsed by the attempt to sell them as anything but.. using BV$H / Orwellian speech techniques while continuing to use Progressive framing is just enraging your base and driving away the Indies. Kill the Senate bill , go for PO taxes on the RICH to pay for it etc. and let the party of NO kill it. At least u could then say you tried to get something real done even if u lose. To pass the Shit taco in the Senate is political suicide.

For the old-timers, it now appears the U.S. elected some unnatural combination of Zelig and Mr. Peepers.

It will be just a matter of time before people start laughing at Obama’s finger wagging at the sky, and the tough talk out of the side of his mouth.

Perhaps, if TV had integrated a little earlier, an Obama like character would have been chosen to play Deputy Barney Fife.

The U.S. went from an All-hat and No Cattle president, to a No Hat and No Cattle president. Is this the best America can do ? Sad, sad, sad.

The dust does need to settle a little bit so that the panic doesn’t cloud better judgment (Yeah I know, what better judgment). But they could do lot worse; lot worse.

But Dodd’s six weeks is just asking for failure to do anything. Ten days is sufficient. After the SOTU.

Then we will see if the folks who took the big lobbying bucks have wised up.

They were getting worse until the House was emboldened by having read the loss of a MA Senate seat correctly. The Senate bill sucks. It looks like it’s dead.

As I understand it, they’re still going to pass the insurance regulations. And they’re going to use other means to incentivize states to do more to expand coverage.

I’d like to point out that Howard Dean has been saying for months that, if they don’t get a public option or a Medicare buy-in, they should do exactly what they are now talking about doing.

I am becoming concerned that the Supreme Court will simply strike down whatever bill is eventually passed. The Roberts Majority clearly has no hesitation about legislating from the bench and is probably ideologically opposed to health care reform. In addition, yesterday showed us that they don’t respect precedents but they do respect corporations. If this bill is even remotely protective of patients/consumers, my bet is they’ll find some reason to strike it down even if that means reversing settled law.

For the old-timers, it now appears the U.S. elected some unnatural combination of Zelig and Mr. Peepers.

It will be just a matter of time before people start laughing at Obama’s finger wagging at the sky, and the tough talk out of the side of his mouth.

Perhaps, if TV had integrated a little earlier, an Obama like character would have been chosen to play Deputy Barney Fife.

The U.S. went from an All-hat and No Cattle president, to a No Hat and No Cattle president. Is this the best America can do ? Sad, sad, sad.

The Dems know all of this they got their own polls. The problems are Rahm can’t admit he is wrong publicly so the Dems can’t change gears.
The Dems want this bill this bill bails out the insurance companies who I suspect are broke and lying about their numbers.
The Dems are still arguing how to respond publicly to this disaster their is no strong leadership to decide on a course of action good or bad.

See, in addition to making it the cornerstone of the Democratic agenda this year, there was something called the “2008 Presidential Election” — and people who voted for Obama, according to exit polls, thought health care reform was the single most important issue of the election.

You’re reading the chart wrong.

53% of 63% of total voters > 73% of 9% of total voters

There’s 98% listed, so 2% is either rounding our in “other” areas.

Let’s say there were 100 Voters.

63 of them thought the Economy was the #1 issue. 53% of them voted for Obama. That’s 33.39 voters.

9 of them thought Healthcare was the #1 issue. 73% voted for Obama. That’s 6.57 voters.

33.39 > 6.57

Granted, there are other issues in the chart, likely from rounding but possible others. “Economy” adds up to 97%, while Energy hits 96% and the others are 98-99%. It seems unlikely the 3rd Party candidates were going in for those two issues, but perhaps.

Anyway, the chart says exactly what anyone back in November knew:

* The #1 issue in the election was overwhelmingly the Economy

* The #1 issue in the election for Obama Voters was overwhelmingly the Economy

Just because we’re progressives and cheesed off about what’s happened to healthcare doesn’t mean we should be cooking the books on what the polling is showing.

John

What he just said.

You read the chart wrong, BT.

all the way to Ohio…

Kurtz at TPM: I’m not sure I’ve ever heard Obama say anything as dissonant as his remarks just now in Ohio where he dismissed Washington as being “all in a tizzy” about health care reform after Tuesday’s election in Massachusetts. Compare that with everything Obama has been saying about health care reform for the last year, when reform was the centerpiece of his agenda.

Now I can agree with “Puravida”

So many of us have waited ..so many years for health care reform. Older Dems know that the opportunity..only comes around once…once every twenty years or more to have “any chance” of passing health care reform. The forces of darkness are strong and the winds of change … change direction in a hurry. This aint hollywood.

I respect young purists that know in their heart that this bill is flawed. I understand the hurt. But I also know the hurt and the anger that shall be felt by millions.. millions if the Democrats blow this chance to pass a health care bill. Now. And I also know how much it will litterally make big insurance and t-baggers and all the right wingers cry like babies as Our President signs it into law. Trust me, the presidents/democrats numbers will rise once that bill is signed into law and just like voting rights and medicare…republican supporters will come out of the closet and the momemtum will swing back to our side and believe me, the right dont want that. Lets not let them win…lets not let them win. Our time, is Now. Seize the moment to seize history my friends. Gitterdone…

Yep, you’re absolutely right. It was the economy, followed by health care for Obama voters.

Break the filibuster

I listened to a few moments of his message while waiting in the doctor’s office. Disclaimer: I have Medicare, so I don’t have a dog in this particular fight, but a do have dogs in several other fights, namely imperial wars, civil liberties and the rule of law, the “bipartisan” efforts to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, among others.

I have never seen a President more afraid of a fight than this one. It’s shameful, disgusting.

There is an honorable way out of the hole the Democrats have dug for themselves. Instead of changing the subject, force the Republicans to stage their damned filibuster. Devote a month or so to meeting the filibuster challenge head on; the way a courageous party willing to fight for its constituents would. Make the Republicans force the Senate into a real dog and pony show. Break their filibuster the way the UAW broke the will of General Motors during the 1936-37 Flint Sit-Down Strike, or the way Reagan broke the Flight Controller’s union.

Believe me, if the Democrats would do that, it would turn the tables on the Republicans and it would be another generation before they could show their faces in public. Breaking the filibuster would expose it as an empty threat in future fights: There wouldn’t be a problem getting Wall Street reform through, getting climate change legislation passed, repealing DOMA, DADT and strengthening gay marriage, weakening the pro-life … The path to all these victories would be lubricated by this one act, the head-on breaking of the Republican filibuster.

I’m not knowledgeable about Senate rules and regulations, but I do know it would take a lot of hustle to get Reid to sign on to such a battle plan. Are there forty or so progressive Senators willing to pressure the leadership into engaging in this fight, and would forty be enough? Perhaps one or two of you folks in the comment space would like to weigh in on the Nuts and Bolts of such a battle plan. I would appreciate your views.

“Can’t run away from health care”

To paraphrase Hal to Fallstaff:

“I can–I will”

Scott Brown is Obama’s new best friend, I expect.

Affordable, quality, timely healthcare should be a right of all Americans. Having said this, may I ask a small question? Why this dog and pony show at all? People are losing their homes. People are barely scraping to survive. Is there not something more important Obama and Congress should have been doing in the last year, instead of this completely bogus “reform”? Are they not just doing EXACTLY what Bush did with his screams of “terrists everywhere” to distract everyone from the shitty economy and how they’ve done nothing to change it? We had trillions for Wall Street, billions for the Big 3, Trillions for the banks, but the rest of the population, let’s take a year and discuss health insurance reform? WTF? Give the poor people decent paying jobs, and get insurance corporations right out of healthcare. There. Done. Now move onto fixing the damn economy. Whether anyone likes it or not, the next election WILL BE it’s the economy stupid! People with no food, no housing and no jobs, could care less about mandated insurance premiums. Employers not selling any of their products, really don’t care about health insurance premiums for their layed off employees. Rome continues to burn, while everyone fiddles. /sorry end of rant

The Dems know all of this they got their own polls. The problems are Rahm can’t admit he is wrong publicly so the Dems can’t change gears.

Suppose for a speculative minute that Rahm Israel Emanuel was a Republican or some foreign enterprise’s mole in the Democratic Party.

How would the debacles he has been associated with through-out his career be any different if he were?

How typical is Rahm Israel Emanuel’s behavior compared to ALL the other Democrats? Totally different one must conclude.

Then examine, how typical is Rahm Israel Emanuel’s behavior to ALL the current Republicans? Totally similar one must likewise conclude.

Of course, I have no proof of any of these speculations, but, sometime in the face of the inexplicable, one might find answers in the shortest, most coherent, most logical pathway.

Stated another way, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may INDEED be a duck.

NO ON THE SENATE HCR. If any member had no doubts about the HCR BEFORE Mass, think again. If you had no doubts BEFORE the SCOTUS ruled that corporate money = speech think again. If you had no doubt BEFORE the White House claimed the Coakley loss “did not have to do with health care” think again. NO on HCR (as is)

You are dead right: Obama can’t ignore healthcare.

Saying that the economy is the reason for the MA loss is just more not-my-fault spin, as if the state of the economy is a natural thing like the weather that owes nothing to Presidential and Congressional action.

Healthcareis an economic issue. A generous, comprehensive, single-payer national health would have been one of the biggest and easiest economic stimulus measures that Congress could have enacted.

Think about the chunk that healthcare takes out of a typical family budget and add the amount that people hold back in order to cover unanticipated out-of-pocket expesnes. I’m fairly well-off and have good insurance. Yet when Madame was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, we were out-of-pocket about $12,000. Under some scenarios, it could have been lots more.

What if we freed ever person in the US from the need to worry about coming up with an extra $12K at short notice? Wouldn’t people spend at least a little more, go into debt at least a little less, and generate demand for goods and employees?

The war, banking reform, corporate re-regulation, workers rights, bankruptcy reform, and environmental protection are also economic issues that can only be handled by doing what the President promised the voters last year. Each failure to keep his word is another failure to fix the economy–and another nail in his party’s electoral coffin.

I could be wrong, but I can’t help but interpret this as capitulation.

Agree, but I think there’s more to it than that. Capitulation, yes, but also combined with a strategy to blame Congress. This guy could destroy our party.

Blue Texan

I admire your enthusiam, but your posts leave a lot to be desired. Picking that statistic (7 out of 10 for economy, 1 out of 10 HC) and interpreting it wrong is kind of a blunder.

I would retract, or at least have someone pull it from the front page.
.

“Saying that the economy is the reason for the MA loss is just more not-my-fault spin, as if the state of the economy is a natural thing like the weather that owes nothing to Presidential and Congressional action”

that appears to be the spin game plan. double down on blaming bush. But knowing obmama now they will try to do that without blaming republicans.
sheesh what a bunch of sellouts and sad sacks.

…and if people lost their jobs… next thing they would be freaking out about would be Health Insurance — makes sense.

Chill. The error was corrected.

Health care finished 2nd with Obama voters, and 66% of Obama voters were “very worried” about health care costs.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p3

The point stands.

Yes. And health care costs and worries about “the economy” are also interconnected.

But knowing obmama now they will try to do that without blaming republicans.

This is Barry trying to square the circle: reconcile likability and effectiveness. Don’t blame Bush, you own the problem, Barry. Folks still like you, but they vote your supporters out.

You next.

I agree with you.

Rahm stupid idea of calling the Insurance Bailout Program Health Care Reform has become a complete disaster.

The WHITE HOUSE mis-calculated the anger toward Bush and Neo-Liberal ideas.

Robert Gibbs and David Axelrod, are the ones telling Obama to run from Health Care and conserverdems.

Obama is going to have to get rid of the Clinton People and create his own team. The Clinton team gave people NAFTA and played a huge role in collapse of Wall-Street

Howard Dean should have played a major role in this white house, I am certain that David Axelrod can’t wait for Rahm to leave. For example, Howard Dean predicted that once you took the Public Option and Medicare Buy In out of the healthcare bill everyone would call this an Insurance Bailout.

Obama internal Polls probably show that his conserverdem approach to governing the USA after Bush is a Disaster!

Obama probably told Nancy don’t pass the toxic Senate HCR Bill. Nancy wasn’t going to pass it anyway.

During the 8 years of Bush Hell, the left became more radical and combative. This is not the Left that Clinton abused during the 90′s

Obama and David Axelrod know that Larry Summers is a complete disaster.

As I see it, most people probably fall into one of three groups regarding healthcare. There are the progressives like us who have been paying WAY too much attention to the healthcare bill (to the detriment of our own health) and already know what it will and will not do. Most of us are going to be disappointed immediately if the Senate bill passes without major improvements. Then there are the teabaggers and the rightwingers who oppose it for the exact opposite reasons we do, but oppose it nonetheless. They will be disappointed immediately if it passes. And then there’s everyone else, who may be somewhat for or against it but aren’t really sure and are too busy worrying about their jobs and their mortgages and if they hear that something has passed, they may feel slightly better or slightly worse but won’t think too much about it until they actually need healthcare, or they see some reductions in their benefit packages or their paychecks (if they still have them). Then they will also be disappointed. So it’s just a matter of timing — eventually EVERYONE will be disappointed. It may not happen between now and November but it will certainly happen between now and 2012.

He is not going to give up on HCR. He is not going to give up the fight for the everyday person. Obama had a pretty bad first year. But, it was only a year. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. We will have some form a HCR. It won’t be the exact bill that the American people need or that liberals want, but it is a start. That is the most important thing; we just need to get the ball rolling. Obama will course correct. Just have a little faith.

The Senate bill rolls the ball completely into the court of private insurance companies, forces us to tithe a portion of our income to them and makes the IRS their enforcer. I have absolute faith that the insurance companies, emboldened and enriched by this congress and this president and this Supreme Court, will spend whatever it takes to keep any course corrections from happening.

I had the same thought.

My impression is that if this bill passes, the insurance companies will cry all the way to the banks. The deals were cut a year ago. This is a win-win for private health insurance companies: they make money if it fails, they make more money if it passes.

I was thinking along those lines tonight. Rahm is someone who makes choices entirely based on where he wants to go. I don’t think party matters to Rahm except as a vehicle for his ambitions. In Chicago politics, that’s Democratic. Elsewhere, it might have been Republican. I also think many politicians are similarly dispositioned: whatever it takes to get where they want to go.

Nice Rovian Rant, who pays you for this, and is it by the word or the comment?

Yer dismissed among progs.

NEXT! (so MANY of them lately)

Rahm is someone who makes choices entirely based on where he wants to go.

So how does Obama’s choice of Emanuel represent a consistent choice? By that I mean why would a person wanting to change the “tone” in Washington pick a Pit-Bull like Emanuel? Be nice with your Republican haters, and have a junk-yard dog to deal with your own party? No logic there.

But suppose Emanuel was placed there to be the guiding hand in the sock-puppet that is Barack Obama? That would make sense. To push an agenda Obama campaigned against. And that is exactly how Obama’s admin started from the get-go. Either Obama planned it all along with cunning and incredible deviousness, or he is a hapless talking, finger-waving sock-puppet.

Either Obama is playing good-cop, bad-cop with his chief of staff, or Obama is being by by Emanuel and whoever or whatever drives him.

It’s really classic good cop bad cop. Any company head knows s/he has to be seen as above the fray, decisive, certainly, but humane. The good guy. Every one of them has a so-called hatchet man, the bad guy. Who does all the crappy stuff, and nobody likes him. Somehow, the bad guy crappy stuff never gets tied back to the good guy head of the company. But it does get done. At the direction, of course, of the head of the company. Everybody who’s worked for any length of time knows this about bosses and bosses’ henchmen.

So, why does Obama get a pass on his hatchet man? Rahm is doing what he was brought into the administration to do. Bully people so his boss can look like the good guy–who, we’re supposed to believe, has no idea what meanie Rahm is doing. Obama has known Rahm Emanual for years and brought Rahm into the administration to do his number on Obama’s behalf.

I think it is worse.. It looks like bad cop, bad cop. Obama knows who his daddy is.

Darcy Burner has a post on DKOS that sums up the HCR mess

So does President Obama want a healthcare bill? This is how he gets it.

Senator Tom Harkin has been saying for months that there are 52 solid votes in the Senate for a bill with a public option. The President has the opportunity to wrangle those 52 votes and get this done. He can make it happen so long as he’s willing to keep his promises to the American people by breaking his promises to the insurance companies and the drug companies. He gets to choose. Let’s see where his priorities lie.

great idea