“Whaaaa. . . ?”

“Secondly, and just as importantly, now President Obama is free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted to all along”

That must be snark, right?

now President Obama is free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted to all along.

He is not FREE to do any such thing. He is OBLIGATED to investigate and prosecute the war criminals of the prior administration, unless he wants to become a war criminal himself.

Please read the fine print!

That must be snark, right?

Don’t see why. We didn’t have 60 real votes in the first place. This is a wake up call and changes nothing.

I agree with Texan

and yes I know he doesn’t really mean it, but I do. Coakley losing was a win for us.

That great thinker, Evan Bayh, is already saying we need to move to the center. What do we do with people like him? I know what I would like to do, but it’s not nice.

I would like to think you are right, but how do you support the following comment, “Now they’ll have no choice but to give us everything we want, including free universal health care?” What has given you any reason to believe that?

Additionally, where do you get the impression that Obama is not in league with the Blue Cross Democrats. This bill seems to be exactly what Rahmbama wanted. Did someone else engineer the sweetheart deals that resulted in the obscene defeat of the drug re-importation bill. AND the early dismissal of a public option?

I may read you wrong, but it almost appears that your scenario is based on Obama the campaigner, not Obama the president.

“….now President Obama is free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted to all along.”

Very funny.

Over at TPM Josh Marshall is licking his chops and crowing that the Dems need to pass the Senate health care reform as it is, ASAP. And I don’t doubt that Blue Texan would agree wholeheartedly.

“Brown’s achievement is not novel. His type of Republican has been elected governor in Massachusetts three or four times in the last 18 years by the real “majority party” –which is the “unenrolled” independents who are 1 and 1/2 times the size of Democrats in number among registered voters and tower over the Republicans of whom less than 12 per cent are registered as such.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/

The backlash is against Rubinomics 2.0, which has goyt nothing to do with Obama, even though he’s Rubin’s acolyte (puppet).

These morans in the Senate have no idea what “the center” is. The center is not huge handouts to big business and no accountability for banks, if they think that is the center they are really misguided. The center supported the public option and more supports the house bill than the senate bill, so maybe the takeaway is a move to the center, too bad bayh and others thing the center is to the right and not the left.

Man, you scared me.

lovely, BT. still putting down MA voters who don’t think exactly like you do i see.

i don’t know which is worse. “grow the fuck up” or this post.

don’t be surprised if MA voters don’t all take kindly to your put downs. this one (me) certainly doesn’t.

As one of those who thought ‘we won!‘ when Nixon resigned, and ‘we won!!’ when Clinton was elected, I was more cautious when Obama was elected.

I settled for ‘maybe we have a chance’.

Although I believe that FDL represents the best concentration of minds that could be applied to developing effective tactical opposition to our corporatist politicians, I think I’ll wait a while before declaring victory.

Pssst!! The Declaration of Independence. Pass it on.

Why did 22% of the Dems vote for Brown?

We’ll just split the party! Hey – it worked well for the Teabaggers in upstate NY…

Pull this ridiculous post down before you demean your wonderful website. You write: now President Obama is free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted to all along.

Obama hated Coakley because she didn’t support his surge. Obama=Neocon. Obama=Stan McChrystal.

He’s free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted all along? In other words, he likes to kill babies with drone missiles but he really also wants health care for the rest of humanity.

You are hurting your credibility. Pull this post down now.

Obama is shielding the war criminals from the prior administration. Per the Geneva Convention, covering up war crimes is itself a war crime.

I assume they won’t take too kindly to it. It wasn’t intended to be kind.

Yes this article is stupid, but not entirely devoid of some plusses. While it is always a bad thing to lose an election, if only because of the “democrats in disarray!” meme that will always follow, there can be some bonuses too. First, there is no need to hold together all 60 votes in order to pass things, instead you are forced to go into reconciliation. Second, it at least partially adds to the credibility of calling republicans obstructionists and means that you can inject more politics into debates. It also can be a wake up call that pissing off the base or maybe just the lack of action is not a winning strategy, in effect it allows for a course change.

The problem is that the wrong lessons can also be taken away from this, and it also can mean that the GOP is the new winning team and bandwagon voters will go there. It would be stupid to say that this was all gravy but it would also be dumb to dismiss some possible benefits.

As spacefish up @4 said, ‘READ THE FINE PRINT’. This is a parody of a RedState post.

Check out what now requires moderator approval. What has happened to FDL?

Your snark is disingenuous, and cloaks unfair criticism of Obama. Don’t you know that the dems are unable to pass his glorious progressive agenda without 100% control of both houses of Congress?

True, ‘pug administrations are always able to enact their agendas, even with a 50/50 split, but it is unfair to compare them to our heroic Democrats, because ‘pugs play dirty! The enlightened ranks of the Corporate Democratic Party are committed to the Queensbury rules (Rahm is the most honorable COS evah!), and if Harry and Nancy need to perform obscene contortions of rhetoric to prevent the enactment of even the weakest left-of-center agenda, whose fault is that?

The Marine helicopters having been flying over the house between D.C and Camp David all day – the most since the election.

Looks like the shit’s really hit the fan in Obamaland.

“Get to de Choppas!”

Love the variety here. It’s a Rorschach inkblot of a post. You see whatever you want to see.

Sen Reid stated minutes ago that there would be no rush in the Senate to pass any bill.

It’s important to remember that this was a special election. All those young liberals and fierce progressives who stayed home were (historically-statistically) never going to vote under any circumstances, and that was generally planned for. That’s why there’s always a huge rightward tack after Presidential cycles, because the Congresscritters know the lefty masses won’t be buggered to vote in the midterms even if they get every unicorn they ask for.
You don’t change people’s opinion of you by meeting their expectations.

Well put! Obama is becoming complicit in the crimes committed by the Bush administration and should be impeached if not tried in criminal court. There are no excuses in our international treaties that allow the current government not to prosecute the Bush War Crimes. How much longer are we going to allow the political elite to get away with their crimes?

Hey, razorbrain, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is. Get your own microphone.

I think the Lieberman bill is exactly what Obama wanted all along. But I agree that lessor evilism is dead. Those whiny crybaby liberals proved they will no longer be disrespected. Congratulations.

Actually, the post (With the exception of the “now Obama can be Obama” line) makes a hell of a lot of sense.

The Democrats in and seeking office can go left, or go home defeated.

As to the “now Obama can be Obama” part, the core problem is that he is indisposed to conflict. What he refuses to accept, even when we present it to him (again and again and again…) is that this is a partisan age. He won because of partisanship and not bipartisanship. No matter how much they smile, they are Republicans and they are not your friends.

For a guy who graduated Columbia and Harvard, he’s not showing up as all that f’g bright.

Looks like Brown is learning from Obama:

“I never said I was going to do everything I can to stop health care. I believe everybody should have health care, it’s just a question of how we do it,” said Brown.

Heh.

I think this account is a good place to start understanding.

I agree. We never had 60 votes because of the Blue Dog philosophy pushed incessantly by Rahm. And, yes, Obama can pursue the agenda he has wanted all along–big money for the military and medical industrial complexes. HE’S A BLUE DOG you guys. Wake up. We were snookered and will continue to be for the next 3 years (hopefully he will be out in 2012). I am most angry because I stupidly believed he would really bring HOPE and CHANGE, but I have only myself to blame for that vote. Now, however, I can justifiably blame Obama & Co. for revealing what conservative snakes they are. My mantra now: look for 3rd party or primary opponents who will really know we mean business or they, too, are goners; or, stay home in 2010 and let this administration squirm, as they should.

Don’t take it so hard selise, I think being lectured by a “progressive” from TX is pretty hilarious. God knows Texas is the seat of liberalism in this country, so such a person must know best. I mean BT has successfully remade Texas in his own image, so we better take notes, don’t you think?

What was it Howard Dean said last night, the message from MA has been heard loud and clear. Just like the message from Texas.

Now those DLC types will all run to the left, or run away

.

Obama is those DLC types, has one in the person of Rahlm E. to guide him in the true faith and has the HCB he wants.

Mmmm… Satire-y!

But being from Cali, I am free to take the slant of this post as a broadside at non-MA residents who advocated that you MA people abandon your responsibilities, shirk your duties, and stay home.

Civics, people. If you can not be bothered to participate, you are not entitled to moan afterward.

That is my takeaway. But I vote every time. Without exception.

Look carefully at the bottom…

“Free Universal Health Care”? You are [removed by moderator]. You should be banned.

“First, the Democrats in Congress now must recognize they will either lose without progressives or will win with progressives.”

They must? You don’t know them like I do. At this very minute the WH and Senate leaders are planning their tack to starboard.

What’s that slang the kids use nowadays? “WATB” or something like that?

Blue Texan, I’m sorry your candidate lost*. But you’re acting like a WATB.

* [not actually sorry]

You, madam, have no sense of irony or humor, and should be slapped.

[Mod Note: please no advocacy of violence, even the cartoon type.]

Unfortunately, there was no downside for progressive here. Whether or not Coakley won or lost progressives where going to get nothing of what we wanted. If you want to get people to vote/support you, something has to be in it for them, it’s that simple.

Yes that is the problem Obama and Coakley are being to progressive and they should have gone after the right in the midterm elections. Let see how that philosophy works in the midterms. Lieberman and the other conservadems will lead us to the promise lands. Please!!

Ya didn’t read the fine print, did ya . . . .

Its real easy to see who reads the whole post before commenting and who does not…

Not voting is as much a vote as going and voting. I would argue that not voting for a crap candidate – and Coakley was a crap candidate and would have been a crappier senator, make no mistake – is as important, if not more important, as any other vote.

To put it another way, if you are presented with a bottle of arsenic and a bottle of cyanide, choosing to take neither is the rational choice.

Democrats have to go left, or go home defeated.

Oh really? Is this your own microphone?

I have read, commented on, and promoted this blog endlessly for at least four years (albeit sometimes under a different screen name). At least 90% of my online reading and participation has been right here. I’ve signed petitions, letters, etc., right here.

Are you telling me I don’t belong here anymore, or are you just saying I should walk in lockstep with you? Please advise, exalted mistress.

I think the Declaration of Independence is a great document, containing a singularly powerful idea, that may well be pertinent to our times. I resent being CENSORED for having that belief. If you don’t like it, go munch on a scorpion (being nice).

Obama isn’t one of the good guys.

I think you have grossly misjudged Obama. He is a corporate politician, just look at who were is major contributors and who he has surrounded himself with in the White House. He is no more going to deliver on change the Left wants to see than Tom Delay is likely to become a socialist. Nothing is going to change after yesterday.

It is time the Left started our own party and left the Democrats behind. It’s been over 40 years since they had any spine and that isn’t going to change between now and November. After 36 years of party membership, I became an independent in November when I realized that real health care reform was dead and another corporate welfare plan was all that was going to pass the Senate and the middle class would once again be stuck paying the bill.

Why is FDL sporting a big advertisement for CareFirst in the middle of this page?

BT, I’m curious, why would you post such snarky insanity?

Just to rile things up a bit?

Cuz while it seems clever to many, I kinda find it an insult to the regular Pups who have real strong feelings about those topics . . . . kinda like Conon O’B making gay jokes . . . .

Just curious what your motivation for doing it was . . .

dude…
read the fine print at the bottom.
Please.

Obama said that as president he would indeed ask his new Attorney General and his deputies to “immediately review the information that’s already there” and determine if an inquiry is warranted.

Well?

What an offensive post. Yesterday you were telling all of us who wanted Coakley to lose to “Grow the fuck up,” and now you’re calling us stupid for putting the Dems on notice this November. It would appear to me that you want the status quo over change.

Just to piss you off a little more, here’s my email this morning to Barbara Boxer;

Dear Barbara Boxer,

Have a nice day.

By putting pressure on the Dems at this very moment, thanks to the loss by Coakley, we have the perfect opportunity to move our representatives to the left. This would not have been possible if Coakley won. Tell me again why I’m so stupid …

We can totally take over the party just by staying home.

I agreed with Big Texan up to this point. We don’t take over the party by staying home, we take over the party by fighting for it. A long, hard fight. We can’t passively leave ourselves in the position of hoping events drive the Democratic leadership to do what we want them to do.

This is why I’ve been promoting the Full Court Press. It calls for running a progressive who supports the following:

WPA-style jobs program
Medicare for all
Repeal the Hyde amendment, oppose Nelson/Stupak
Repeal DOMA, DADT, support gay marriage
U.S. out of Iraq and Afghanistan

In all 435 Democratic primaries in 2012, as many as we can in 2010.

It doesn’t require trying to win. It requires filing. that means:

$588,081 filing fees
298,488 signatures

Split 435 ways, that comes to:

$1,358 filing fee
693 signatures

Some states are really easy, some much harder. But the above can be accomplished by ordinary citizens who do not have the approval of the party machine. The impact comes not in winning a few seats, but in the spread. Death by 435 cuts. 71 of our Democratic incumbents ran unopposed in their primaries. They hate primaries. They especially hate primaries where the opposition takes positions that appeal to the Democratic base (as above) which their political “realism” doesn’t allow them to touch.

The Full Court Press …

http://www.antemedius.com/content/full-court-press-435-democratic-congressional-primaries

is a plan to build infrastructure, around a few core principles, one that the rank-and-file can own.

No more empty throats, like the drunk staggering out of the bar after he’s been cut off, snarling, “I’ll kill you next time!” And the bartender smiles because “next time” never comes and the drunk will be back tomorrow night. Next time is now.

I assume they won’t take too kindly to it. It wasn’t intended to be kind.

gotcha.

silly me, i took jane seriously when she told me just a few minutes ago that you all were going to try to “calm things down today and be respectful of people’s decisions” today.

not that i don’t appreciate diversity of views, i just think it unreasonable to expect that commenters won’t respond in kind to posts like this one and “grow the fuck up.”

i wonder if you really care about electing dems at all because if you did i’d expect you to attempt persuasion rather than bullying. guess this is just another example of what john emerson says: republican populism is fake but democratic elitism is real.

Indeed it is all things to all people

I had been given to understand previously that despite all the fine regularly posted snark and satire on the front page at FDL, it’s always a good idea to post a giant “WARNING: SATIRE… Click link to Get Joke!!!” disclaimer. Now I see why.

“just look at who were is major contributors”

I seem to remember the The People contributing record amounts to his campaign. But that was a long time ago. What have they done for him lately?

Seriously, you’re South-bashing? I’m sure that’s not a sign that you’re completely out of reasoned arguments.

Yeah, the more I review it, and think about it, it fails the good snark test completely.

Ergo, it seems a bit like flipping the bird at some Pups who took BT to task in previe threads he authored.

I’d like to know the motivation for this one, as stated by the author . . . not looking for a fight, BT is a Pup, thru and thru . . . but this one, hoss . . . . I dunno . . . . not really funny.

You’re not stupid that I am aware of, but I have not talked to your friends. You’re right we did not lose anything with a Coakley loss.

[Mod Note: please refrain from insinuating that other commenters are stupid, regardless of how clever the ploy]

By putting pressure on the Dems at this very moment, thanks to the loss by Coakley, we have the perfect opportunity to move our representatives to the left.

See my post #58.

Good snark deserves good counter-snark.

Repeat after me: ‘liberals’ You are liberals, not progressives. Don’t be afraid to say it.

And exactly what is the fascination with men’s scrotums? ‘Teabaggers’??? Really, what grade are you in?

Actually, Selise, a lot of folks think that people like you = Blue Texan and the rest of FDL. For example, “the farmer” over at the Corrente Stay Behind Lounge (which was formed when the other Correnteites hived off to form their own pro-Clinton blog which takes shots at FDL for being pro-Obama) has this to say:

And don’t forget to thank Jane Hamsher and her Firedog Lake HCR Kill The Bill fail-tards for their tireless disinformation and negative messaging campaign effort on behalf of scuttling the HCR bill.

During the Bush years Democrats were absolutely timid… no balls at all.

Now people elected them for change and expected with all this power they would have some balls like in the past (FDR/LBJ) … NOPE.. they are even bigger wussies than before.

Who is standing up and fighting during this time? The people out of power… Republicans. In office or out the Republicans have the balls to LEAD… the Democrats never do… it isnt a Limbaugh lie… the Dems are totally weak.

No. I was BT-bashing. I thought that was obvious. Regrettably, there is a great deal that I find obvious that evidently is not.

“…purifying the party.”

Should start at the top!

WPA-style jobs program?

I’m not sure the youth of America would be as receptive to that as their elders.

I did, before I wrote any comments.

What the people who are all hue-and-crying about is the death of the idea in their heads that some sort of bipartisan kumbayah Elysium will magically appear if only Obama moves left.

I have no expectation that he will, though I will admit the possibility of being surprised.

What people have to grasp is this – any Democrat who wants to survive this election will have to move left. Crying and whining in impotence is a guarantee that they will get rolled.

I’ve been saying this for months – the Democrats will lose the House this fall, and when the Republicans take over Obama will be impeached for not being a native-born citizen. To that, I’ll add the chance that they’ll add a charge of aiding and giving comfort to the terrorists.

Go left, or go home.

I am not the deciding factor here, since I don’t pay for the site, but I graciously accept the rules of the site set forth by those that do pay for the site. Anyone who has been here for years, as I have, knows this is not Huffpo or Dkos or anywhere that they can advocate the violent overthrow of the government whenever they want. We don’t like the war; we don’t do violence or advocate anyone to be subjected to violence or torture.

brilliant, eg.

Repeat after me: ‘liberals’ You are liberals, not progressives. Don’t be afraid to say it.

I’ve taught myself to use the terms interchangeably since they mean the same thing.

I just wish we’d all start referring to “conservatives” as REGRESSIVES since that’s what they really are.

“Punch the Dirty F*cking Hippie” is a game some people enjoy more than they will admit, regardless of their voter affiliation.

thanks phred.

i don’t think it’s texas though. i used to live in texas. knew a lot of liberals and dems, but never saw this kind of authoritarian, self-righteous elitism from them. just the bat shit crazy right wingers.

oh well, tx is a big state. i probably missed a lot.

The ones who wanted jobs would.

Almost gave me a heart attack until I read the fine print at the bottom.

Loved it.

Yep, as fucked up as shit is for we the people a vote is the ONE thing I can still count on doing.

Staying home is NEVER an option.

Hell, at the very least going to the polls is a chance to get out and talk shit outside to the loonz!

*G*

I agree, IT’S ALL MY FAULT, and ObamaRahma shouldn’t forget it. I have the power to destroy their little corporate whoredom game. I have the power to nullify their backroom deals with Big PHaRMA and AHIP. I now have the power to veto their sweetheart deal with Wall Street they call “financial regulatory reform”. And I now have the power to defeat their corporate shill candidates in even the blueist of states.

But will ObamaRahma listen to me? Probably not. Why? Because Obama is an empty suit just waiting to be stuffed full of corporate dollars. Because he is not a fighter for anything except mendacity. Because he thinks I’m stupid enough to eat a shit sandwich just because he says it’ll taste good later on. Because he believes in nothing.

Can ObamaRahma prove me wrong and take away my power? Sure, and it’s easy. All he has to do is:
1. Investigate and prosecute the Bush Crime Family for invading Iraq without reason, for torturing both the innocent and guilty with sadistic glee, and for turning the DOJ into an extension of the GOP.
2. Fire Summers, Geithner, and Bernake right now, with no golden parachutes.
3. Change positions on executive authority and secrecy to restore the constitution.
4. Pass a true public health insurance option or Medicare buy-in, and pay for it by taxing the rich.
5. Impose punitive fees on banks that will confiscate ALL of their income once they grow to “too large to fail” size. Force all derivatives trading to be done on public exchanges. Impose a $1 trillion dollar annual “restoration tax” on the financial sector to pay for the deficit.
6. Pass mortgage cramdown immediately. Immediately pass a foreclosure moratorium. Pass new usury laws preventing credit card interest rates over 10%.
7. Pass legislation making the Federal Reserve’s primary function the protection of the broad economy and consumers, not the health of the banking sector.
8. Introduce legislation that removes “corporate personhood” and the right of corporations to interfere in politics through donations or public statements and restricting their legal rights in court.
9. Sign on to the International Criminal Court in order to make US officials accountable for their actions on the world stage.
10. Get the US military out of Afghanistan and Iraq.
11. Borrow a set of balls from Alan Grayson so people won’t find out you’ve been castrated by Goldman Sachs and joe Lieberman.

That’s all it would take. See how easy it is to defeat me and take away my power?

Actually, what I’d like to do is to take the people who think this is a good game plan and put them in a room with some people like this guy and see if there would be a matter-antimatter reaction.

Thanks for the chuckle.

yep

I’m almost hopeful that we can really affect some change now.

For the record, people can have one screen name here. Registering under a different name without a good reason is a bannable offense.

Registering under a new name, and then complaining because we don’t treat you right as an old, valued, special FDL contributor is kind of odd. Pick one: keep your name and your reputation and your history; or if you have a valid reason for shifting your name, let us know.

Otherwise all we see is some new guy coming in here raving about the need for violent overthrow of the government. Not good.

i have no idea how your comment has any relevance to this post or my comments. besides, hasn’t goodwin’s law kicked in yet?

Who they callin’ “failtards”?

You can’t possibly believe that with Coakley’s record as AG, and Brown’s record in office, that Brown will be the better Senator for the people of MA that he will serve?

You don’t want to protect women’s right to choose, do you?
You don’t want support social programs, do you?
You want to cut entitlement programs, don’t you?

War, domestic surveillence, and on and on and on is what Brown will bring you.

The people of MA will have buyer’s remorse in, 3, 2, 1.

My guess, less than 6 months after he’s sworn in.

In the context of things, this is polite and respectful.

People in the blogs and elsewhere have, for a full year now, been politely telling Obama and his admin that they were (a) going down the wrong road, (b) not fulfilling (or deliberately breaking) both their campaign promises and the Democratic party’s principles, (c) acting like pussies when confronted by raving lunatics dressed as Republicans, (d) pissing off, de-energizing and alienating their base and (e) going to get their heads handed to them come the next election.

Of course, being DFH, we were dismissed, especially when we were right.

In such a context, sitting on one’s butt and watching the predictions come true is the rational course. Going to vote for a clown like Coakley would have been as much a ratification of bad conduct as was Obama’s letting Lieberman keep both the committee chairmanships and seniority – not just dumb, but also counterproductive.

appreciate your comment and attempt at calm, but BT @20 made it clear how he meant the post to be taken.

What I find interesting is that among the first people to start going into full-tilt screeching kill-the-messenger mode against FDL were the Hillary fans over at Corrente, which suffered a huge split when the non-Hillary fans such as “the farmer” split off from them. Now “the farmer” has started singing a variant of that same kill-the-messenger song, even as his former buddies back at Corrente are still calling FDL a bunch of Obama worshipers.

Plus, Brown is two sandwiches short of a picnic.
In other words, Palin in trousers.

Happy Senate’in.

Democrats in Congress now must recognize they will either lose without progressives or will win with progressives. Polls show that many progressives sat home instead of voting for Martha Coakley. Whoever thinks the country can’t be made more progressive by sitting at home was proven wrong last night.

BT ~

This is certainly a different take on the MA special election from the one you had the other day. Honestly, I think it’s great that we’re coming back together to move forward from here.

BT no more represents TX than you and I represent MA. We just happen to live in our respective states. There are a few people around here who thought taking pot shots at us over the past few days was going to somehow magically make the majority of voters in MA (that’s the independents for those not paying attention) less pissed off. They were mistaken and they don’t like it.

The leadership of the Democratic Party has a choice, they can deliver on their campaign promises from the past two election cycles or not. To do so requires them to move left. Presumably that’s what all of us want, but it isn’t entirely evident based on the comments here of late.

If the Dem leadership insists on moving right, following the sage advice of Rahm and Lanny and their ilk, then they will in fact prove that Rahm is not only the Rove-of-the-left, but that Rahm is actually way more talented than Rove, because he managed to drive the party over a cliff in a year. It took Rove 6 years, he must be burning with shame.

Hey, ya never know what will get folks to vote for a candidate. Back in the day in ’72, I was out for McGovern (trying to get folks to vote “straight Democratic”). One of my fellow precinct campaigners said that she and her folks were all voting for McGovern because “Nixon had gone Commie by going to Red China.”

Oh, the relevance is this: The Farmer and a number of other people think that you and BT and everyone else at FDL are the same person, even though your opinions and BT’s are at wide and massive variance.

In the context of things, this is polite and respectful.

it probably wouldn’t have bothered me quite so much if the previous thread’s conversation hadn’t just taken place — where the opposite pov was told to knock it off (my interpretation) because we were all going to calm things down today (better read it for yourself than take my interpretation as fact, i’m just trying to describe where i’m coming from).

Having to live on the street with an empty belly usually enables the transformation from no support to being very grateful.

nominated for best comment.

you are a genius.

Next up: neoliberal austerity in the form of privatizing Soc Sec and trashing Medicare. You know, “entitlement” reform. Must slash the deficit in this time of high unemployment. Jeebus is this country stupid.

I think the loss is no big deal. Why is it 60 votes anyway?

The rest of the piece sounds like “Dump the Hump” (1968)

That’s part of the tell that for people who claim and may even believe they are making pragmatic, rational arguments when in fact their response is much better understood in emotional terms. I don’t mean in any way to denigrate emotional responses, but there’s a big problem when people with not much self-awareness or insight are unable to distinguish the difference between the two in themselves. What they know is that the feeling they get from FDL and other administration critics is one that is very uncomfortable – what’s missing is the level of self-examination that makes one think about just why that’s so. Doing so will inexorably lead to the realization that perhaps it isn’t the messenger creating the feelings of anxiety they’re trying to quell.

Or they could get Congress to pass 26 more weeks of unemployment funds.

Picking up rocks in the nations National Parks interfers with X-Box.

very well said. thanks.

catch you all later. i need to go get some advil. *g*

Coakley may not have been great nor run a credible campaign. She would have voted for some things we like and would have been a “good soldier” on others. Most likely Brown will be first and foremost a “good soldier” for his commanders on the right. Maybe he can be defeated in 2012, maybe he will be re-elected.

The really important issue is not who voted against Coakley by staying home but why independents and democrats voted FOR Brown.

I think you are correct in believing the people of Massachusetts will have buyer’s remorse about Brown in a few months, which will be just in time for the 2012 elections.

As to Coakley, I hold no brief for her. She’s another Blue Dog crime warrior who would do nothing – nothing – for civil liberties (Except maybe gut them some more). She would have talked a good game about Choice, and given lip service to all the other liberal issues (kind of the way NARAL deals with antichoice pols and nominees, seeing them as a way to raise funds and avoid doing anything about them).

I have to say, I agree wholeheartedly with this post by Jeralyn Merritt over at TalkLeft, and encourage you to read it with an open mind. Brown will be a nuisance and an ass, but lkely ineffectual. Coakley would have been poison. We are better off without her.

Ewwww . . . that’s just ugly, PW . . . . . *G*

The link, I mean . . . your thought about the anti Coakley is spot on . . . NOTHING is as bad as a Repub like Brown, in any Senate seat . . . . and she would serve a lousy two years, be a junior member . . . and get primaried all to hell and back in ’12.

Sigh, how they didn’t get that, I don’t know . . . . .

Revolutions are fought by those whose ribs are easily counted.

Of course, I’ve seen people call FDL names similar to “authoritarian” and “self-righteous” (today’s current favorites are “sneering cynical bitterender true progressives and independents” and “the Cenk Doctrine purity pony”) because they want to pretend that people who hold your views run FDL in lockstep arrogant fashion.

Oldest troll practice in the world . . . at one site back in ’01 or so, one or two would assume several identies, and flamewar back and forth at each other, and then at the regulars.

And that was a RADIO station site! *G*

ISP Addy’s tell all . . . *G*

I am not advocating the violent overthrow of the government. I don’t even know if I would want to see that. There are lots of factors to weigh and consider. Very complex.

What I am advocating is that a blog like this one should allow discussion of all relevant and pertinent issues and topics, and considering various extra-legal tactics is not itelf illegal, and may well be the only rational thing to do when confronted with the absolute reality that the system as currently constituted is rigged to constsantly frustrate and defeat the will of the people. I said “considering,” not “fomenting,” not “advocating.” Appreciate the difference, please.

This is not a new concept, Ann. The Founding Fathers confronted the same issue, and wrote the Declaration of Independence in response, and we were all taught to revere them for their courage and principles.

How have we arrived at a time and place where this website, which I have always regarded as a bastion of freedom, can blithely refuse to allow any discussion at all about the ideas contained in the Declaration of Independence? It just seems so wrong to me, and it also seems that without considering all options, at least for the purposes of hypothetical discussion, then all we are accomplishing here is mental masturbation. And the results to date would really seem to support that argument, don’t they?

I want to be able to discuss all that is within legal limits. I should not have to educate you or anyone here about the arguments for that.

Oh, exactly. They want to view FDL as a monolith when they would never make that mistake with, say, Daily Kos. Never confuse diarists, even popular ones, with front pagers — and don’t assume that all the front pagers march in lockstep.

But his daughters are available!!!!

For what, I wonder . . . . sick fuck, talk about family abuse.

Ummm.. Hate to tell you Blue Texan but the Scott Brown win is a total rejection of the progressive agenda, a rejection of lies from Obama, Pelosi, and Reid and rejection of Washington DC and the complicit liberal media totally ignoring the voices of the people of the United States.

Can you hear us now???

[Mod Note: edited to remove the all caps, it's considered shouting]

If the Democrats move any further away from the left, they’ll fall off the right.

It isn’t the names you may call me–it’s the one I choose to answer to that counts.

I do want to calm things down today, and appreciate people being sensitive to the fact that people in Massachusetts (such as yourself) made a variety of decisions yesterday and people are all trying to sort through this stuff at a time when feelings are running high. People will take that counsel or not as they see fit, but I’ve given it to everyone.

timr: This whole post is actually a sarcastic rewrite of the first time it was written – a post written by Red State’s Erick Erickson after the GOP, thanks to outside involvement by the far right, caused New York’s 23rd Congressional District to fall into Democratic hands for the first time since the latter half of the 19th century.

The anti-FDL putsch has all but evaporated as of this morning. I was expecting more bitter denunciation, especially since it was the “base not showing up” that caused the shocking result. Guess we’ll have to await another scolding column from Paul (fake scandal) Krugman.

FOX is the liberal media?

Let’s face it. Barack Obama is Timothy Geithner’s sock puppet. Timothy pulls his hand out and Obama collapses.

True Story.

That was my first election! *G*

And yeah, even in San Mateo, CA, a bastion of Bay Area liberalism, I know people who said the same thing, Nixon was a commie! So, the DFH’s were commies, but Nixon was too . . . I’d also ask them how they felt about the draft, ending the war . . . did they think those were commie practices? Crickets.

Great story, thanks for sharing!

Nah, all I think Blue Texan needs is a special T-Shirt:

“Vote DINO Democrat or DIE”

or –

“We’re Doomed Doomed I tell you if you Don’t Vote DINO”

“TOTAL REJECTION OF THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA, A REJECTION OF LIES FROM OBAMA”

The progressive agenda and Obama stand in oppo. to one another.

Making sense of BS is hard work.

WTF? First FDL tells us to support Coakley. Now they tell us her defeat is a big victory. This goes beyond absurd. What kind of bizzaro world are we living in anyway?

You mean they’re evacuating the white house becuase the right won? Similar to the fall of Saigon? O’bama’s running away from the white wing crazies?

There’s a liberal media?

What I love is that the same people who used to scream at Krugman for “being a PUMA” when he defended the mandates in Hillary’s health care plan are suddenly citing Krugman as the gold standard now that he’s defending the mandates in Obama’s plan.

allow me to pour some gasoline on the fire:

Research 2000 poll after polls closed yesterday

VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION

•82% of Obama voters who voted for Brown
•86% of Obama voters who stayed home

there’s lots on this page

Consider the source. Bayh is just plain greedy and is in the pocket of insurance industry – or any others who will pay.

FOX is very liberal. With the truth.

I will ignore BT’s pouting.

The truth is that Obama and the Democratic party have not only not delivered on their message of change they have gone about as far as possible in the other direction as they could. It isn’t just progressives who have noticed but mainstream Democrats and independents who have as well. Nor is it just MA. We have already seen this reaction in the NJ and Virginia races. We are seeing it in the poll numbers. We are seeing it in retirements and even one case of a pseudo-Democrat jumping ship.

Actions have consequences. MA is just the latest example. In theory, the Democrats should have been able to run a ham sandwich there and won with the support of their base and progressives. It didn’t happen. November will be much worse.

It can not be said enough times. This is something that Obama and the Democrats did to themselves. The blame goes to them as well as the responsibility to make things right by the voters they have ignored and taken for granted. No voter owes his or her vote to any politician. If politicians are not willing to work for our votes they don’t deserve them.

Nice to know that ‘establishment’ Veal pen ‘Emily’s List’ was pimping for Coakley in the primaries too.

Egregious, when FDL re-organized the page some months back, I was required to go through a re-registration process. I have trouble keeping track of screeen names and passwords used in diferent places sometimes. It was simpler for me at that moment to choose a new one of each. No deceptions intended, I am proud of my record on here and my associations with this site. I believe my former handle was megafeet, or it may have been my actual name, Toby, or maybe something else.

Just know that I am a sincere supporter of this site and what I have always thought that it stood for. Censorship is repugnant to me, and all the more so unnecessary censorship. I would fight to the death for your right to speak your mind, even when I disagree. I think that is the proper attitude for all of us.

In any event, we will inevitably be allies in any real fight that comes along ;).

Kafka: It’s satire. (More to the point, it’s a rewrite of this Red State post that similarly claimed victory in defeat when the GOP lost NY-23 as a direct result of hard-right outside “purity” conservative activism.)

Isn’t it great that we don’t have to deal with the “commie” thing any more? Now we have brown people,
Muslims, etc. to be afraid of forever.

{{{selise}}}

Thanks.

A-yep.

Actually, Obama, Lawrence and Geithner are all Rubin’s acolytes.
Rubinomics 2.0 is a real and imminent danger to all wage earners in America.

All well and good, but it didn’t stop me from being modded when I suggested the deserved “tar and Feathers.” You’re not the only one; you just whine more than I when I’m asked to observe house rules.

In my opinion, Obama’s problem doesn’t have to do with being too right or too left, it has to do with an amatuerish style of managing congress. He let the health care debate turn into a year long congressional clusterfuck and paid the penalty.

The truth is that Obama and the Democratic party have not only not delivered on their message of change they have gone about as far as possible in the other direction as they could.

I agree with you 100%. I just think helping elect a total wingnut like Scott Brown to the US Senate isn’t going to move them — or the country — in the right direction.

It’s magical thinking.

How is this true? “The Scott Brown win is a TOTAL REJECTION OF THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA,” when this agenda was already rejected by Obama wher he stated “we have ot look forward, not backwards”?

So my heart transplant is rejected twice? I should care about the second rejection from my corpse, when the first rejection was effective at killing me?

trolly goodness…………..ignore

Is there a link to the “daughter giveaway” that I can see w/o having to watch the whole thing?

Unemployment funding short term is not gonna cut it . . . no matter how far out you extend it.

If young people are hungry and homeless, they’ll work, it’s human nature.

The WPA proved it, and MHO is that we need WPA like pieces put into place immediately.

I can’t find a job, been a long while now . . . . and I got SOME skills and education.

I’d pick up rocks or dig with a shovel if I could get paid . . . well, I’d prefer to be part of the administration of that work, at my age and in my condition . . . but my point is clear.

We want jobs, there aren’t any, and many that were lost will NEVER be coming back.

And we likely can’t create enough NEW jobs to put all of us out of work which means, continued homelessness and more.

Govt. has to intervene, or be responsible for killing the middle class, and the poor and unemployed.

And I doubt we the people will be as silent about it all as we have been, as it all gets worse, much worse.

Bodies in the street, marches, demonstrations, work stoppages, boycotts.

All that and pitchforks and torches, likely primed and getting MORE primed day by day.

A slight shift has occurred, though not about the mandates yet. But read the latest Nate Silver screed and note how he’s now holding up the public option in a good light again. I count Silver as one who went way, way over the top as a supporter of the emerging, corporate-friendly shape of HCR and basher of progressives.

Actually, Obama, Lawrence and Geithner are all Rubin’s acolytes bitches.

Fixed it.

I just accepted the vote as a positive and didn’t take it any further.

As it was, Kentucky had a lot of split ticket voters that year as the Dem senate candidate, Dee Huddleston, won the race by about the same percentage as Nixon did. And he beat the former governor, Louie B. Nunn, who was one of the few candidates that Nixon actually campaigned for that year. (Dee wound up losing to Mitch McConnell in ’84)

Aljezeera?

I thought Rubin was Summers’ sock puppet. Do we have a case of nested sock pupperts here?

Coakley would have been a junior member, powerless, and primaried in 2 years.

I completely disagree with you about Brown being the better choice.

And I’ll let the voters of MA prove me wrong or right in about 6 months.

*G*

hehehehhe

I appreciate the snark, got a chuckle out of it myself even thought we don’t agree. But you need to learn to deal with being disappointed. You can either convince a majority of Democrats and Independents that they *have* to vote and vote Democrat *or* you can make snarky comments with much hand-waving and righteous indignation. So far your strategy isn’t working. We have a stand off between “purists” (or “I’m-sick-of-this-crap-ists”) and the party loyalist. If you can’t convince the rest of the Democratic party to start following their platform then you’re hosed. If you continue to let your elected leaders lie through their teeth to you without repercussions you’re hosed. We’re all hosed, maybe not equally but together.

Yes, Palin as POTUS is a scary thought, but that’s not a very good sales job. Doesn’t exactly make me want to vote for McCain. I appreciate its good enough for you. Honestly, I just think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. It didn’t work for Gore, or Kerry, and only by a electing a pathological liar has it worked in recent memory. If you can’t clean up your party (not an easy undertaking) consider joining all those crazy Nader people. All they lack are numbers and organization… Or you can blame them for not compromising their principles so you’ll feel better under what ever regime comes with the Palin Presidency. Your choice.

Unfortunately, the mainstream press is spinning this “voters rejecting Obama’s leftism”. Go and quiz your neighbors and coworkers — people who have no idea that blogs exist — and ask them why Coakley lost. Chances are good that, unless you live in or near a college campus, a non-trivial number will say that it was because Obama pushed too far to the left.

So guess what? This won’t move Obama leftward. If anything, it’ll scare him to the right, just as Clinton was scared rightward in 1994.

Same place as the liberal government. France?

go to the headof the class…….highwaymen…extroidinaire

“This is not change we can believe in. Not if Robert Rubin or his protégé, Lawrence Summers, get to call the shots on the economy in President-elect Barack Obama’s incoming administration. Both Clinton-era treasury secretaries deserve a great deal of the blame for the radical deregulation of the financial industry that has derailed the world economy.”

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081201/scheer

Oh, I know. But I can’t resist tweaking people who think that a corporate-owned and GOP-friendly media is somehow “liberal”.

When I was a young boy of 10 or so, living overseas and being a voracious reader, my father gave me a paperback called “To Beat A Tiger, One Needs A Brother’s Help”.

It chronicled in a fiction way, the struggles of young boys in Nanking, during the Japanese occupation. Their hunger, their methods of survival (stealing), being bayoneted for theft of bread or rice, and such.

Being hungry does indeed, provide a willingness to forgo previous attitudes and behaviors.

And thanks for your reply.

“..helping elect a total wingnut like Scott Brown..”

The progressives did this all by themselves did they… now that really is pathetic analysis.

If you continue to let your elected leaders lie through their teeth to you without repercussions you’re hosed. We’re all hosed, maybe not equally but together.

See, I don’t see how I’m doing that. I think you have to get better elected leaders, but you don’t do that by helping elect Republicans.

Yep. Fox is definitely part of the “liberal media.” In fact, I’m pretty sure they’re straight-up Communists, wired directly into Moscow.

Oh, so you think the Soviet Union collapsed? Clearly, that was just a ruse. Next thing coming: Fluoridation of water…

“Mandrake. Get over here and feed me that belt, boy…”

Brilliant. Do you mind if my letter to Boxer is a variation of yours? She and Feinstein have already received reams of my communications, and all I get back is the same vague and evasive claptrap.

Are you a dirty commie socialist or are you a rightwing nut of a loon?

I can’t tell, all them caps and such . . . what was your message again?

And who’s it aimed at?

thanks for the fix, it was needed.

I hope that people understand this post is snark — it’s a word-for-word Erick Erickson post from RedState.

a rightwing nut of a loon?

Pretty sure that’s redundant.

As for the all caps thing? Probably a broken keyboard.

Uh, not to fan these flames TOO much further along, but, as Selise DID effectively point out, BT’s replies made it clear he meant it . . . . as a slap. Snark or not. That was made clear, I think.

So, the INTENT and MOTIVATION of the thread by BT remains unclear, and unexplained by BT.

Other than his replies to Selise . . . which then seem pretty spiteful.

Just my 2 cents.

Appears that a whole lot of people missed the joke.

Hey Peeps: It’s just a regular joke. It won’t hurt you…

when you can point to 40 years of Democrats failure to represent the voters, you do what you can to effect change. Status quo is no longer an option.

LOL. I’m trying to get the house rules to be a bit more rational, that’s all. I’m lawyer, I’m used to rules. But I like them to be rational. And to have a political discussion delimited by the system’s’ guidelines does not strike me as being very rational. If the system is indeed intended to be rigged against the people, how can the people ever win by playing strictly according to the system’s rules? ‘Tis a conundrum, n’est-ce pas?

The Declaration of Independence attempted to deal with that conundrum.

Hey…I’m just here to help.

It sure as shit is, hoss . . . . ;-)

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Brother Azure Tex, you are half right…progressives win if they turn out in the primaries and in the county Democratic caucuses and party meetings and on the ground for re-election of progressive candidates and stay home in the general elections between corporate fascists and corporate Nazis.

This takes discipline and organization and motivation and the internet…all things that progressives have in abundance. Fix the healthcare bill or kill it but do it quickly and then ram a jobs bill and bankin reform down ObamaRahma’s throat. Obama is NOT stupid but neither is he a progressive…he is an ambitious, smart and totally Machiavellian politician who will put whatever power he has behind savin’ his own political ass at the expense of Rahm Emmanuel or any number of American citizens OR soldiers!

Now is time for powerful activists like Sister Jane Hamsher to put the whip to elected progressives and stop playin footsie with powerless lunatics like Ron Paul who have only noise and money behind them.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND DON’T BE AFRAID TO LOSE OR YOU’VE ALREADY BOUGHT IT!!!

Obama now saying that the senate will not consider health care until Brown is seated. Senate is saying that they won’t consider health care AT ALL.

I think this thing is over.

with this post I can save precious time in my life by ignoring all future posts by “Blue Texan”. bye, bye BT

…and why did BT put it up because with a limited mind we are supposed to be so so like the republican base…?

The saddest thing about the ObamaRahma administration is that they had it all and threw it away – a 60-seat majority in the Senate, an overwhelming majority in the House, and a personal popularity level for Obama that gave him more power than any president since Jimmy Carter and FDR. But instead of going carpe diem and pushing hard for a progressive agenda encompassing Democratic ideals, he went DLC-Clintonish and began screwing the base. How dumb was that?

He could have been another FDR, a “contender”, a “somebody” in American history. Instead, he chose to seek “bipartisanship” in the face of an insanely hostile GOP. Instead of fighting, he gave in; instead of dancing with the ones who brought him, he whored himself out to the very corporations and malignant interests that caused the problems he was elected to solve. He chose mendacity over honesty, compromise over courage, and sold out both the people who supported him and the country as a whole.

It’s now obvious Obama isn’t who he claimed to be or who progressives hoped he would be. He’s not even smart, because a smart politician would have seen the handwriting on the wall and avoided the calamity that Obama now owns. Frankly, in my entire life I have never seen anyone, outside of sports figures, who has thrown away such a huge opportunity for lasting success in return for so little. Both sad and disgusting at the same time.

Voters also turned out to the tune of some 2.2 million, out of roughly 4.5 million Eligible voters, double the turnout for the primary.

So if all them people stayed home, Obama voters, PO option fans, some NEW voters showed up in HUGE numbers . .

I don’t get the math . . . . who is this huge group of new people who showed up to vote for Brown, aside from 23% of the Dems who voted for him (boy are they gonna regret that shit)?

The only answer to my question is, a TON of independents who didn’t vote before turned out, for SOME reason. And THOSE numbers balance the stay at home libs/progs/Obama/PO fans.

Why? Why did independents that have NOT voted recently turn out so hugely?

Ok, that pretty much answers why in my previe comment about voter turnout . . thanks!

What topcat said.

Plus ce change . . . eh? (don’t know how to do the little accents)

oh yea, go win on the grounds of sheer purity of your minority. Naderites and Paulites keep off my grass!?

In charge of the charge of the light brigade, – aren’t we brilliant.

I think it’s more like Slim Pickens riding the bomb and whooping it up. Just give Obama a cowboy hat, because he’s got himself strapped down tight to the electoral bomb coming in November. We will soon see if he’s got enough sense to jump off the suicide train.

*ouch*

What I find inexcusable is how the Rahm approach to policy and politics has been designed to turn the left against itself. Up until today it was working just fine; now not so much.

I know it’s snark. But, that doesn’t change my opinion that the Democratic base sitting home rather than voting for a crappy Blue Dog was the rational choice and a solid message to TPTB. I have litle expectation that Obama will change, but I’m hoping that at least some Dems will.

Dems: Go left, or go home beaten.

FWIW, one of the better takes (among many) is Topcat’s @183.

I am with you on this, yesterday BT was telling us to grow the fuck up and today he is either with us on this or being sarcastic, which one is it? Obama and the dems have no one to blame but themselves for this. Only a fool crps on the people who elected them in order to win over the people who will NEVER vote for him.

So guess what? This won’t move Obama leftward. If anything, it’ll scare him to the right, just as Clinton was scared rightward in 1994.

I have been saying this for a quite a while now. I think you mistake the dynamic. When Obama and the Democrats win, it’s taken as proof that they were correct to move center-right. When they lose, that’s evidence that they didn’t move far enough right. The point here is that Obama and the Democrats are going to govern as conservatives no matter what we do. And they will draw exactly the wrong lesson from their defeats.

Unless we see a real and substantive turnaround in their thinking very soon, we can assume they will continue as they have. We meanwhile should be thinking about primarying as many Democrats as we can.

It’s sad when you realize that Arundhati Roy’s voice would be banned from FDL.

Try Huffpo . . . I don’t know . . . he came off sounding REALLY bad to me, but maybe we wanted to sound like a Southern Gentleman announcing his daughter’s being old enough now to date . . . pretty paternalistic shit, no matter HOW you slice it in this day and age . . . funny on the farm, maybe still, not so funny on TV, for millions to view.

Hugh, Robert Scheer over at Truthdig and Huff Po has a pull no punches piece. Straight to the point…and the heart.

If he wasn’t prepared to make a breakthrough in health care, and that meant a reform program that would begin sooner rather than later, he should have put it on a back burner. The furor over a very unsatisfactory plan drew attention from the far bigger crisis concerning the meltdown of the nation’s economy. By accepting and indeed expanding the Bush administration’s strategy of throwing money at Wall Street, Obama ceded the populist label to the Tea Party Republicans who now pretend that a banking mess brought about by their radical deregulatory philosophy is not of their making.

It is the economy, stupid, and the sooner Obama grasps that, the better for his and the nation’s prospects. A new Wall Street Journal/NBC poll finds that “Americans ranked job creation and economic growth as their clear top priority for the federal government, well above national security and deficit reduction. Health care, Mr. Obama’s top domestic priority in 2009, now ranks fourth, closely trailing the deficit and government spending.”

Of course, the public is right. In the midst of the worst economic crisis in 70 years, why waste enormous political capital battling to pass a health care plan that is modeled on a proven failure in Massachusetts, as voters there clearly registered? Meanwhile, the president has dropped the ball in the effort to make bankers act responsibly by forcing them to forego outrageous bonuses and help homeowners stay in their homes.

“What Massachusetts Got Right”,Robert Scheer ,Truthdig

Wh–aaa-t?

Nate strikes me as a Villager Wannabe.

But Rasmussen, Zogby, and all the other Village Pollsters won’t let him in the clubhouse.

*G*

Well “you” do it by not making them responsible for their statements. If Obama has seen a backlash on his FISA reversal, it would have been a good start. On not closing Gitmo, etc. etc. I agree that its hard to reform a party (elect better Dems) when people are leaving because they feel they have been betrayed. But how do you get them back? You only solution so far is for everyone to vote Democrat and we’ll take care of the details later. Well, We did that already and during one of the worst eras in our history. The “Details” step got skipped. Kind of a chicken and an egg problem. Eventually, it comes down to neither one of us controls the party apparatus so when they do something stupid there’s not a whole lot we can do about it. Neither can the people in MA. They can vote or not vote and that’s all the power they have. Worst still, they’re desperate so probably not in a position to do your political calculus.
I don’t have answers. I think more emphasis needs to be placed on better Democrats than more Democrats. People want someone to fight for them, an FDR. So at least they know if they vote Dem, they can rely on those people to do what they said they would. I don’t think politely asking Rahm to step down is going to work. The Bush years were a great time to clean things up, if not then, then when?

@#196

Robert Scheer: What Massachusetts Got RightJan 20, 2010 … The president got creamed in Massachusetts. No amount of blaming this disastrous outcome on the weaknesses of the local Democratic candidate …
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/what-massachusetts-got-ri_b_429298.html – 10 hours ago

well, here we are and it is like old times when we gathered in the face of the latest Bush idiocy, war or suck up to the rich and it was reinforced by the voters.
it is nice to have a refuge.
and here is some food, rather, numbers for thought:

MA Election results
2010 election
1,168,000 brown
1,059,000 coakley
20,000 others
2,247,000

2008 election
1,109,000 mccain
1,904,000 obama

100,000 others
3,113,000 total

Brown wins with about the same vote as McCain got.
Where were the 900k or so voters that didnt show up at all and who just a year ago gave Obama the win. Brown ran identical numbers to McCain, but Coakley drew 900k fewer.

There are about 1.5 million Dems, .5 million Goopers, and 2 million no party in MA.

There are no quick fixes. Building long-term infrastructure around core principles is the only way. Doing so, however, requires putting the building ahead of winning. Targeting only the worst is simply a way to inject a little new blood into a dying system. Full Court Press is one tactic, not the only one. But it’s a start.

I noticed in mighty small font that there was a link to some “stupid” writing the first time, but didn’t quite get the joke. Several of us who are regulars did not, as there was no reason to take this as a joke.

I could give a shit less what Erick Erickson has to say.

Apparently, BT thinks he’s done a fine job proving his point: “we’re stupid.”

“Probably a broken keyboard.”

Drool?

The problem is that the rest of us can’t exactly wait for them to “come around” if it means that we get more Scott Browns in both Houses.

You thought the subpoenas were flying fast and furious after the Republican Revolution? You ain’t seen nothing yet if Republicans retake the House in November.

And yeah, you say, let’s kill the filibuster. It’d be a nice plan, if there was any chance that we’d never end up back in the minority and actually NEED the blasted thing.

At best, we have gridlock. At worst, complete and utter dysfunction.

But how do you get them back?

1) Work like hell and donate to progressive Democrats during the primary.
2) Vote Democrat in the general.
3) Agitate and organize like hell afterwards.

Abstaining from the process by giving a teabagger a Senate seat is not going to get you where you want to go.

Thanks, I guess I have to try to stomach the whole thing.

WRT the math of the vote, I have read two things about ballots in MA yesterday. First that some voters received ballots already marked for Brown. Second, I read that where there were paper/hand-counted ballots that Coakley won.

It would be fine by me if he would just stick to analyzing poll results. Instead he became an angry, petty shill for Rahmcare. Thus, we have the absurd spectacle of online debates featuring Nate v FDl while the tea party crowd gains the upper hand.

I respectfully disagree with your 99%.

If anything, I think it will make Dems in office and candidates more conservative. Dems are wienies and for some reason don’t like a good fight. I am soooo frustrated with my party.

Just look at Bayh’s comments on the Mass. election today.

Bayh can be primaried, right?

“We have allowed non-violent resistance to atrophy into feel-good political theatre, which at its most successful is a photo opportunity for the media, and at its least successful, simply ignored.

We need to look up and urgently discuss strategies of resistance, wage real battles and inflict real damage. ” — A.R.

I choose to interpret this as needing more teeth.

It might not get us where we want to go, but WILL prevent us from going where we do not want to go, i.e. the DLC-Clinton model.

Right now the ball is in The House, and they have NOT committed yet to their move.

Everything else is kabuki, be it intentional or insane . . . the media is having a shark frenzy feeding at this trough now that MA has been decided . . . and the WH and dem’s in general are spinning all they can to play the blame game as to WHY Coakley lost . . . pure kabuki, methinks.

Keep your eye on The House final outcome, and THEN we’ll see what the WH and The Senate will do.

Way too early to buy into kabuki memes . . . . *G*

I think what you maintain is wrong on every count.

Firstly and most importantly there is absolutely no reason to believe that Obama is anything other than committed to the Senate version of HCR. He has shown time and again that he wants the insurance companies and Pharma to stay right where they are and continue to make profits. He does not believe in the overhaul of the health care system, or any other system for that matter.

Therefore we will not see Obama move away from Republicans on HCR but rather try to find a way to pass the Senate bill as is. For that reason Obama is a failed president and we should not look to him as an ally but rather as someone we have to deal with and try to replace in 2012.

It goes without saying that he has learned nothing from the Coakley affair and the struggle to obtain meaningful reform on any front is left to renewed and increased effort from the left. And that effort should begin right away and is only hampered by this wildly misplaced confidence on Obama suddenly seeing the light and becoming useful in any way.

Yep, Obama was/is at one of those cusps of history where he could have remade this country, single handedly, and gone down in history as one of the greats of ANY millenium, a true champion of the people.

And then he let the corporate feudalist overlords drive him.

The whole notion of voting for the “viable” candidate has to go out the window. It has created a sterile political landscape. A monoculture.

So many political options are lost because we focus on Red and Blue only.

I will never vote for my gun-toting Bluedog Democratic congressperson ever again, I don’t care who runs against him. He doesn’t stand for what I believe in.

Yes. It is all yours. I wish it were Feinstein on the line this November instead of Boxer. That would have felt great. This is going to feel depressing, but necessary.

Hard to argue with the idea that we need to be less like pussycats and more like lions. Otherwise, it’s just mental masturbation.

Have NO idea who that is . . .

Needing more teeth…in addition to more backbone.

It as though there is an epidemic of spine flu among the electorate.

Wishin’ and hopin’ for real change?

The change must begin within ourselves………

WHEN will people FINALLY realize that one cannot substitute a wishbone for a backbone?

A third party may never win, but you need one, a strong one, to make the Dems see that if they screw with the left, there will be hell to pay. A young charismatic candidate may be the ticket. That was the problem with Nader. Good man, but came off as angry.

Had you been a CT voter in 2006 and Lieberman won the primary, you would have gone out to vote for Lieberman?

Even if your answer is “yes,” are you saying that, given what we’ve seen Obama and the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate do and/or fail to do since Jan 2009, we’re supposed to put the Democratic Party having majorities before all other considerations?

Arundhati Roy

Yep, that Village Drive To Belong is a powerful force . . .

and we need to write our congresspeople and let them know why Coakley lost instead of waiting to see what the media settles on as its major takeaway. We can prevent the media from spinning this the wrong way if we all write to our local newspapers as well. This is our moment. We need to seize it.

Well, if we look at the data rather than our navels we find out that the Coakley loss was really about Obama voters saying the Dems are selling out. (Which they are)

The Dems will look at the data once they get past the knee jerk reactions ad realize they will have to change or loose more.

Sounds much more violent oriented than marches, bodies in the streets, work stoppages, massive boycotts, and such.

And frankly, you put a million folks on the streets of DC angry and telling about it, the pols HAVE to listen.

Then, you get that million in every major city . . . . you’ll get results, fast.

So, I kinda discount his . . . . whoops, her comment thru and thru.

… And what will progressives have to show for all that work? Absolutely nothing. That is what we always have. The center drift that all political candidates have after the primaries kills any progressive movement. Appealing to the widest base means taking the fewest stances as possible.

Obama was a master of that. That is why we foolishly pinned all of our hopes and dreams on him.

You’re a fool to believe that the actions progressives in Ma. took last night by staying home was wrong. The Democrats have turned their back on us, so how long do we want to continue to act like an abused spouse?

Let the Democrats keep going right. There is no difference between them and the Republicans. In the end, it will mean the rise of a 3rd party. Let it happen. Is it going to suck in the meantime? You bet.

What you propose is for us to continue to compromise our values and allow us to continue to be led down the prim rose path.

Enough is enough.

Personally I think it would useful if we took the time to see what happened during the MA primaries… E.g. how much the organized establishment spent both in time and money organizing their GOTV machinery and propaganda for their chosen republican-lite candidate.

Also, again [from an OpenLeft comment] interesting that Emily’s List seemed right there with Coakley… [no doubt knowing full well she had no intention of voting against a Stupak or Nelson amendment], and then look @ MoveON — only coming in only after the primaries? Stinks.

All the while the the DNC [since Dean leaving] not continuing the plan for us to organize our own precinct officers — [vs. the republican Nat. Precinct organization that I'm sure isn't funded by the grassroots].

Arianna over at Huffingtonpost says this loss might be a blessing… is BT going to have a go at her too?

Also, I haven’t much about Obama’s IL seat… where is MoveOn there or Actblue there? I before we get to the primaries that the establishment has already mapped out? Especially when we look at the opposition who is already getting funded by the same pro-Israel and corporates funding Lieberman and Ford — of course “…Massachusetts is a trial run for the 2010 midterms..”

Forwarned is forarmed… the corporate devotion demands from posters like BT is wearing really thin.

I concur with your every word, in the meantime, we HAVE to pressure him to limit the damage he wants to do.

WHEN will people FINALLY realize that one cannot substitute a wishbone for a backbone?

I’m going to remember this

Obama is trying to surf the wave of anger today:

“Here’s my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country: the same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office,” Mr. Obama said, according to excerpts released by the network. “People are angry, they are frustrated. Not just because of what’s happened in the last year or two years, but what’s happened over the last eight years.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/obama-seat-brown-before-moving-ahead-on-health-care-bill/?hp

Right now the response is being debated and the safest thing for any pol to do is go with the conventional wisdom. However, the data is proving CW false (big surprise). We have yet to see what the real response is and if we want a good reaction we need to be active in making sure our reps and senators know what we expect.

And she was blogging here, and advocated stronger measures than peaceful protests? A woman activist who has as a model one of the GREATEST peaceful advocates in history from her country?

Wierd.

I sincerely hope that Obama Pelosi and Reid double down. It’s suicide.

Amen. Obama is a worthless tool of the corporate elite. I didn’t like him in the primaries, he was the lesser of two evils in the general election and now he has handed 2012 over to the Republicans. It is sad that change is going to come from the right, but it is a non-issue on the left. Change is just election year hype.

Also, if I hear one more politician talk about the power and influence of the health care companies I am going to spit. Why do we elect you time and time again if you aren’t going to change anything? It isn’t enough to just bring it up (Bernie Sanders), do something.

The idea that the Democrats have moved to the right is comical. You are on the fringe of the fringe. Enjoy your time in the wilderness.

MA revolted not because Obama overreached in pursuit of liberal and progressive policies, rather because Obama UNDERREACHED in pursuit of liberal and progressive policies.

I only stopped in to view the bloodletting that always occurs when an inflammatory post leads to impassioned comments. Since the post was meant as an not-so-subtle attack on a position that Blue Texan is unwilling to accept the laugh potential is pretty much nonexistent. Not even a “I’m laughing with you” to hide behind.

Funny thing is that almost everyone here agrees on the problem and some of the solutions. Of course a small number of folks are certain that only their position is correct. Blaming any single person, for voting for or against Coakley, and claiming that one decision is the reason the Democrats will fail is a non-starter. People have to make individual decisions on how they are going to convince the politicians to respond to their self-identified grievances. No matter which way any individual decides to play it, the decision is still, in the final analysis just one person and a single vote did not determine the outcome. The outcome was determined by a generalized dissatisfaction with the way things are going. When a group of people that do not know each other vote then it is usually more useful to figure out why they did it than it is to attempt to prove that they don’t know what they are doing. Once someone thinks they’re smarter and better informed than a random group of people they are almost certainly wrong.

It’s obvious that voting for either Coakley or Brown was not a solution to the bigger problem. Coakley being elected would have made Obama’s team even more complacent and Brown will give energy to Republicans. The real problem is that nobody has the slightest idea how to get Obama and those within his administration to act according to our expectations. Less still how to get the Congress to get their hands out of the cookie jar. Liberals and progressives thought they would be courted like Bush did with his base instead of being insulted and marginalized.

All these things are obvious. The other thing that is obvious is that if instead of trying persuade someone you attack them and just make fun of their ideals you will only succeed in forcing them to respond in kind. In that case, the people that want progressives and liberals to divide and fail will win the day.

The idea that the Democrats have moved to the right is comical. You are on the fringe of the fringe. Enjoy your time in the wilderness.

Supporting a health care bill that shifts as many costs as possible onto the individual from business and government is a regressive, conservative approach to health reform.

The public at large through polling supports government finance of health care. Obama is governing to the right of public opinion and the voters of MA punished him for it yesterday.

Taxation on premiums = conservative.
Individual mandate = conservative.
Deal with pharma = conservative.

Either that, or MA suddenly turned into TX.

Absolutely.

Sadly, the MSM spin and kabuki are not PUSHING that meme, ergo teabaggers and Rethugs will CONTINUE to have a field day with it.

Lesigh.

Sadly, the MSM spin and kabuki are not PUSHING that meme, ergo teabaggers and Rethugs will have a field day with it.

No, that is good, because when our opponents ensconce themselves upon politically shaky ground based on false readings of the political terrain, they tend towards error upon which we can capitalize.

“Whoever thinks the country can’t be made more progressive by sitting at home was proven wrong last night.
I have said all along that the goal of activists must be to defeat Coakley. We did exactly what we set out to do — crush the establishment backed Democratic candidate, thereby purifying the party. Mission accomplished.”

This is such utter fatuous fantasy bullshit.

Great! I love it. I live in Jane Harmon’s district and I would love to see Harmon, Boxer, and DiFi all walk the election plank.

In the same way that the sun *can* be snuffed out, yes. It is allowable within the realm of physics as we understand it today.

I don’t see it happening though. Indiana votes for Bayh the same way a trained rat presses the food lever.

You’d porbably be more happy in Cuba or North Korea. They have no Corporations. No jobs, no future, no freedom. You are WAY out there.

Putting what has turned out to be BT’s totally unnecessary [moderated] with this post aside, I’d say you’re exactly right.

Brown won yesterday by running as an outsider. He ran an insider/outsider campaign, rather than a Democrat/Republican campaign.

Sound familiar, Jane?

Looks like he put Kilgore’s take to work effectively, getting voters – all those independents and all those people who are generally pissed off because of all the shady collusion that the Democrats have embraced with the gusto of Republicans – to vote for “change” (regardless of right or left, so long as it’s perceived as outsider and not insider).

He was actually making some sense until the second last paragraph (“Now Obama is free …”). Well, that bit about voters who stay home, but if you just substitute “progressives”, then you’d be close to right, at least in a story-telling “based on real events” kind of way.

Shoulda known he was kidding.

“YOU WILL VOTE FOR LIEBERMAN AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!”

That’s what they said in 2000 and their party hasn’t gotten any better.

In fact, it’s become even more indistinguishable from the other wing of the Corporate War Party.

Please, Blue Texan, all true Progressives beg you to keep giving us reasons to watch your Party die painfully.

Speaking as someone who would like nothing better than to see such a surge, I have to agree.

From what I understand of Coakly, the Primary process didn’t happen (as in a Progressive candidate was put forward). Rahm has no interest in Step 1 and the voters know it. Even if I believed you that we’d get back to step one after 2 we both know step 3 sends him into fits of giggles. He doesn’t care, why should he? All he needs from you is Step 2. All Obama needs is a majority in 2012. He has no reason to care after that point. The Organization (should be Syndicate) has no reason to perform Steps 1 and 3 and every reason to be against it. Step 2 is all that matters and they know which buttons to push to get it, they’ve made a career out of making you do step 2 without 1 and 3. If they don’t have to why should they? Moral responsibility? not likely. In any negotiation you need and angle, the only one you have is your vote. Its your carrot and your stick. If you are not willing to use it, you have nothing to bargain with. I don’t fault others for using their only remaining bargaining chip. Maybe it will help, maybe it won’t. It certainly has your attention, even if you think its dumb you now know what the possibilities are. Hopefully you and others see that berating people isn’t the solution.

*Donning a Flak Jacket and entering FDL just long enough to leave this*

FDL Meditation: [may also be used by those who are not fans of FDL]

Take 10 calming breaths, inhaling and exhaling fully and visualize stress and toxins leaving your body.

Then, take 10 calming breaths, inhaling and exhaling fully and visualize pure, healing energy filling your entire being.

(If you do this with your eyes closed, take 5 calming breaths and s-l-o-w-l-y open your eyes)

This was premium snark by Blue Texan. As with great comedy, it shows the clear division in society. There is a lot of fighting among those on the Left.

Calm down and discuss how we can unite and bring progressive change to America. Our future depends on it.

I think two things went on simultaneously – one is that Coakley was put in the position of either having to support the Senate health care bill, particularly the Nelson (anti-abortion) amendment, thus honking off progressives and more than a few working stiffs, and many others fell for Brown’s personality (and where have seen that before?) Coakley lost a twenty-plus point lead inside of three weeks. I don’t think there’s any one thing that explains that sudden a change, assuming she didn’t set fire to Boston Harbor.

If she’d spoken out against that bill, she might have won, but she probably would have had to do it without the support of the national party apparatus. If she had run an aggressive campaign from the start, she might have won. If Brown hadn’t had such good handlers, she might have won. But, she didn’t do any of those things, and Brown had good handlers.

This was snark. Fine.

What was the point?

My intelligence being limited according to the likes of BT, it looks like the point was that those of us who don’t agree with BT are “stupid.”

See my comment @ 203.

This was low quality, totally unnecessary, assholish snark, intended to stir up division rather than bring us together.

You’d porbably be more happy in Cuba or North Korea. They have no Corporations. No jobs, no future, no freedom. You are WAY out there.

Are you suggesting that having gargantuan corporations, no jobs, no future, no freedom is any better? You are WAY out there.

If only the LIBS would move farther to the left. They could start ramming stuff through!!
Progressive means Marxist. Pure and simple.

The idea that the Democrats have moved to the right is comical. You are on the fringe of the fringe. Enjoy your time in the wilderness.

Well, I do have a cabin in Montana but of course it’s not in Lincoln.
When Nixon(!) was President among the laws he signed included price controls and other wildly socialist measures. When Carter was President he pushed for massive consumer protections, emission controls and pollution regulation. When Clinton was President he signed Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act and NAFTA. When Obama was President he spent trillions taxpayer dollars to bailout out massively insolvent banks.

Kind of feels like I’ve been in the wilderness for a while now.

Hey, now you’re just being overly optimistic.

Me thinks thou art a Troll. Now, if I could just find my troll-away spray.

go pound the streets for Marcy!

If only the LIBS would move farther to the left. They could start ramming stuff through!!
Progressive means Marxist. Pure and simple.

Please, continue to labor under the misapprehension that last night’s electoral outcome is a sign that MA has turned into TX.

People want Obama to follow through on his progressive and liberal promises and to end the corporate welfare and coddling of Wall Street and the Health Insurers.

There is no popular support for prioritizing debt control over Keynesianism to respond to the depression and prime the pump of the economy to create jobs. That is, folks are not going to side with free market economic sharia and allow more than 1/2 of all businesses to go bankrupt because of Wall Streets’ errors. So aside from fundamentalist cleansing through bankruptcies without any safety net for innocents caught up in that, and aside from the only other presently viable alternative, Keynesiansim, do conservative economists have any other ideas? If not, shut up.

No jobs, no future,

So where are those jobs in the US again? I’d sure like to find one.

I am breathing deeply right now.

Thanks for that.

“…put in the position of…”? You don’t think she had to give her loyalty to the Health Bill as soon as she was nominated? — that initially she was doing a typical ‘bait and switch’ campaign… and after the primaries — conventional DINO wisdom clicked in whereby we were told the liberals/progressives have no where else to go?

As soon as she was ‘put in the position’ of not speaking out against the bill — when the HCR negative polls should have been hitting her in the face — speaks volumes how much of an insider flak she was. It was then easy for Brown to come in and say he was the ‘independent’ MA Senator of the people not the party.’ arghh… and people like BT talk of ideological purity…

So where are those jobs in the US again? I’d sure like to find one.

TO be fair, it was the Democrabs like Clinton who united with Republicans like Gingrich to fuck over American workers in 1994 by bowing down before the altar of free market economic fundamentalist sharia by passing NAFTA. That has done so much to, over the past 30 years, cut the number of good middle class jobs in half while doubling the population.

I don’t think anyone, left or right, who is not a fundamentalist wants to live in a country with an economy like that.

I’m suggesting that you are a [moderated]. America wasn’t built on Marxism. Cuba was. I’m suggeting that until LIBERALS interfered in the free market and the MORTGAGE and banking systems, we had virtual full employment. I’m also suggesting that you have no idea what you are talking about.
I’m suggesting that our standard of living is unparalleled in the world and that most “progessives” are government dependant or juvenile.
Lastly I’m suggesting that you love the fruits of capitalism, but pine for a way of life that does not work. Maybe you’d be happier in Haiti. All of the Communist nations are helping out there. Good Luck friend.

BT – I respectfully disagree. Obama’s PR administration will swing further right, not become more progressive, as it elevates this Kabuki suicide pact with bipartisanship to toxic new levels.

My note to whitehouse.gov:

From the Department of NO LESSONS LEARNED: This is your brain on drugs

Thanks for squandering your presidency & betraying the independents & progressives who elected you to put an end to eight years of kleptocracy and catastrophe.

As of today, you’ve lost working majorities in both houses of congress even before November’s mid-terms because democratic representatives and senators are too scared of losing their seats to support anything that the bottom 95% of the country needs. Congratulations, Rahm.

Somebody in charge better read this post now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-westen/obama-finally-gets-his-vi_b_429232.html

And then they need to read this document:

http://www.milestonedocuments.com/document_detail.php?id=10&more=fulltext

Any questions?

How interesting, you didn’t have the brains to refute me. Why is that?

I appreciate that. There is only so much you can do to steer a community at a time like this. People are upset, there’s a lot of tension, and you have to let them express themselves. But it’s a time for us to be active in the comments (egregious, PW, etc.) and try to let people know that we’re here and we very much care, even if we have a variety of opinions.

so exactly where has Obama been marxist? Most everything I see has been government operating as if it were one with corporation for the benefit of corporations rather than “the working class.”

I am breathing deeply right now.

I’m kinda hyperventilating right now at the scope of the rebuke by progressives and liberals on the neoliberal Obama and Emmanuel administration.

I didn’t think we had it in us, and that this means that the spell is being broken right before our eyes.

Where did I say they were being too progressive? My point was that all the progressive voters who did a protest non-vote yesterday were an expected, planned for quantity and didn’t surprise anyone in the Party leadership. And they will stay home in 2010, not quite as many of them but a predictable amount nonetheless; it is unknowable what reason will motivate their protest or which individuals will participate but the protest non-vote will manifest the same way it always does. Obama should be more progressive, from an effective governance calculus; but electorally it would make no difference one way or the other, not for the midterms anyway. There are three general poles to the American electorate–the Right always votes, the Center is always persuadable, and the Left always protests. You want change, that needs to change.

I’m sorry, Jane. Speaking as someone who very much wants to calm things down and move forward, this post was a totally unnecessary, assholish, failed-effort-at-snark post.

My response to Petrocelli @ 254 was much more correct.

The burden is on all of us to try to find ways to come together, and BT decided it was the right time to fling what has turned out to be garbage, an apparent effort to once again call those of us who don’t agree with BT “stupid.”

corporate communism (bailouts, subsidies), unbeknownst to guss, is a bipartisan affliction.

the Left always protests.

Only because no matter who gets elected, the left always gets screwed even if our ideas are broadly supported.

There is nothing wrong with protesting when you get screwed. The way to stop that is for power to give the left some consideration rather than none at all.

The GOP gives the right wing base more that just some consideration and they always vote. The Democrabs could learn from that but they will not.

corporate communism (bailouts, subsidies), unbeknownst to guss, is a bipartisan affliction.

Don’t see this as left/right any more, its more of contemporary feudalism laced through and through with corruption.

“Obama urges Dems not to ‘jam’ health care past GOP (AP)
AP – President Barack Obama advised fellow Democrats against trying to jam a health care bill through Congress after taking a devastating hit from the loss of a Senate seat. He said Wednesday it’s time to come together around a bill that can draw Republican support, too.”

How is this a win for Progressives???? Obama says it’s time to come together with Republicans? So he wants to further corporatize the bill. Sick or what?

Scrolling through the thread — I’m in agreement with Hugh on how the administration will swing in response to yesterday’s result.

That said, there’s no reason to attack divergent views in this site, which is one of the most constructive forums for public policy discourse on the web — thanks to Jane, Christy, Marcy, etal. as well as everyone who comes here to contribute their ideas and commitments.

It’s not left/right, but the right still does an effective job of spreading the hogwash that Barney Frank and the Community Re-investment act caused the banking system to collapse.

How is this a win for Progressives???? Obama says it’s time to come together with Republicans? So he wants to further corporatize the bill. Sick or what?

Political death wish.

“YOU HAVE MEDDLED WITH THE FUNDAMENTAL FORCES OF NATURE, MR. BEALE — AND YOU WILL ATONE!”

What we need is a whole lot more meddlers.

It’s not left/right, but the right still does an effective job of spreading the hogwash that Barney Frank and the Community Re-investment act caused the banking system to collapse.

And that progressives have been secretly been running the show since 1914. But that is extremist fundamentalism that is nowhere near mainstream sentiment amongst the general voting public any more than 9/11 conspiracy theories are on the left.

Principled and honest conservatives are coming to realize, like progressives, that we’re being played against one another with intent to keep the political system in stasis, not solving any problems, so entrenched power can enrich itself before finally driving us off a cliff.

Sybil the Soothsayer!

I think you have all have done an impressive job at FDL. I just like conversations that avoid making people overly angry. Disagreement is always fun but anger can make people stop talking.

The left/right dichotomy is being diluted within the ranks of Independents who, I believe will find agreement as to the state of affairs, and might find a positive compromise with regards to solutions.

The Green party values platform would need a bit of rephrasing/massaging to help Independents come together on ways to move forward against both parties.

If she’d spoken out against that bill, she might would have won, but she probably definitely would have had to do it without the support of the national party apparatus.

Sorry! Felt the need to make a couple of changes. ;^>

Well, we are all finally being allowed a peek behind the curtain at the “Wizard”.

No matter how many times we may click the heels of our ruby slippers, we will never be back in Kansas again…and to some ..that’s a GOOD thing.

Amen. Except “assholish” is too mild.

Calling this post “snark” or “satire” doesn’t justify it.

My pleasure … thanks for all that you continue to do !

it’s not left/right…agreed..it’s the leftout that are making their voices in the wilderness being heard loud and clear.

I predict its the first of many such messages.

The mainstream sentiment isn’t about a specific narrative, true. It’s a generalized outrage at the bailouts, and the open corruption that accompanies them. But the right has done a good job of capitalizing on it, and the “Barney Frank forcing banks to make loans to poor people and minorities” line is NOT limited to right wing fringe websites or talk radio; it’s the “mainstream right” view trotted out in the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post and elsewhere in editorial-land whenever the subject comes up. It’s far more mainstream on the right than 9/11 conspiracies are on the left.

Obama’s center sets forth the acceptance of Rubinomics 2.0 as the leading economic ideology.

BT needs to accept that he approves and supports Rubinomics to make his position be understood as an informed choice on his part.

It seems to me that one could argue that Obama is dancing with the one that brought him. All that campaign money came with a price. This is the trade-mark of the new DLC/Clinton fashioned Democratic party. It is why the single greatest issue in this country is campaign-finance/election reform. And really no one is talking about that.

You an I are simply taking different positions on whether the chicken or the egg came first; I think we can agree on the process itself. In any case, the more I hear from people in MA, the more I’m understanding that Coakley’s loss has nothing whatsoever to do with policy. She ran a campaign that would have embarrassed a highschooler running for school board.

And make no mistake, despite the Beltway spin, we know for certain based on statements from the local Democratic parties, that they chose Coakley based on advice from the Washington crowd, instead of listening to the kind of people who sit at home during special elections.

So we have demonstrated to the Democratic Party that it must not take progressives for granted. The Democrats spent millions on a weak candidate who wasn’t left-wing enough. Had we had a true progressive, the Democrats would’ve held the seat. Now they’ll have no choice but to give us everything we want, including free universal health care.

Secondly, and just as importantly, now President Obama is free to pursue the agenda he’s wanted to all along.

So much specious reasoning it hurts.

The beltway drives the media. The Dems spend their time looking for excuses for why they don’t have to follow the public’s interest. We didn’t do anything before the magic number, we got the magic number, now we don’t have the magic number again. Guess what, nothing happened during all that time!

Now, we’re back to courting Snowe, and when we fail to get her (quelle surprise!) we’ll have another excuse for why nothing is happening.

What FDL is endorsing will not make progressive legislation get passed. It will not make the mainstream respect our goals. It sure as fuck won’t get the media to report our interest and numbers realistically.

Convincing people to defund the DLC, DNC, and all similar central “centrist” groups and properly target local progressive politicians would be much more effective. It’ll at least make it easier to primary broke conservaDems.

.

No worries. What you’re commenting on is supposed to be snark. It’s a failure as snark and serves no productive purpose at FDL, but it’s supposedly snark nonetheless.

The question is how to press for progressive reform when the media won’t report our interests and will spin Obama’s agenda as “progressive,” though it is not.

On this point, I agree 100%:

Convincing people to defund the DLC, DNC, and all similar central “centrist” groups and properly target local progressive politicians would be much more effective. It’ll at least make it easier to primary broke conservaDems.

I stopped contributing to the DNC, the DSCC, the DCCC, HCAN, etc about 5 or 6 months ago and have only contributed to FDL, Marcy Wheeler, Derrick Crowe, the Prop 8 coverage, and several progressive candidates via ActBlue.

Targeting lets the party off the hook. When the House dems voted for the Stupak-laden bill, it was an act of the Democratic Party, not just an accumulation of individuals. When Pelosi thinks it’s okay to ram the Senate bill through the House, that’s the party speaking. That’s why the Full Court Press advocates primarying all 435 Democratic House primaries. It’s a message to the entire party, it’s a tactic accessible to “non-credible” candidates, who haven’t built their credibility through years of kissing party-hack ass.

If Coakley loss was a win for Democrats… what would it have been if she had won??

We can stop Republican filibusters. For more actions see http://www.democratz.org

Please spread the word.

Brown-Forman, the distributor of Jack Daniels Whiskey and Southern Comfort has given Mitch McConnell money for his campaigns.

CALL Brown-Forman of Kentucky AT 502-585-1100 and tell the person who answers to get their CEO to GET Mitch McConnell to execute no Republican filibusters and enact the Employee free choice act into law and until then you will not buy Jack Daniel’s whiskey and Southern Comfort anymore!

Call Mitch McConnell’s office and tell the person who answers that you will boycott all Kentucky products until Mitch McConnell holds a press conference announcing he will stop every Republican filibuster.

A loss. Obama is now calling for scaling back the bill, keeping the good parts like banning not giving coverage for pre-existing conditions. This is what the approach should have been from the beginning.

If Coakley had won, the Titanic would have kept on cruising towards the 2010 iceberg.

WHAT DID LAST NIGHT SAY?

Badly run campaigns lose, well run campaigns win.

States don’t want to pay twice for the same health care.

The politicians have not provided a health care/ health insurance bill that is understandable.

The way of doing legislation GOP blockades (which would be Democrat blockades if the roles were reversed), Democrat deals (which would be GOP deals if the roles were reversed), the sausage making process overall smells to high heaven.

Emotional and often irrational appeals created big crowds (as both Tea Party and Obama Campaign Organizers know), and esoteric arguments and emotional distance lead to low voter turnout.

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE?

Option A: Pass the Senate bill in the house, send it to the White House. Work out the kinks using subsequent legislation including the reconciliation process.

Option B: Wait until the Senate has Mr. Brown in it and then see if there is any real interest in creating a reconciled bill.

Option C: Dissemble the bill into its key elements (health insurance reform, health care cost control, pharmaceutical cost control, tort reform etc.) and pass the legislation piecemeal.

Given the climate. Given the calendar. We need to move. The longer it drags out the worse it gets. So I favor Option A with a more transparent reconciliation process. If we had time, I would go for Option C as the best course. Why not Option B? Because the GOP is going to blockade, as the Democrats would do if the roles were reversed. It works to their advantage.

If she had won, a messy bill would have gotten even messier.

If she had won, the Democratic cultural complacency would have remained in place.

If she had won, the culture of wheeling and dealing would have been endorsed.

If she had won, the foolish effort to create the 60 vote super majority (which is a phantom) would have continued.

If she had won, the possibility of a GOP House and Senate would have been set aside rather than faced.

If she had won, we would have had a very poor campaigner with little instinct for the public conversation in the Senate.

I think its an interesting article as far as “lets get the so called” Dems like Nelson, Lincoln and Lieberman (so called independant) out of the health care bill once and for all. And its a positive article…in a twisted way. And that is what we need right now, positive. We also need desparately to UNITE against the right wing onslaught. We must get some fire in our bellies and scream and yell at their meetings like they do at ours and stand up for what we, as progressives, believe in. Get angry…then get even I say !!! Lets stand toe to toe with these so called leaders in the Republican party that have done thing for us and only complained against what our party proposes to fix this country and make it better for everyone.. Unite Unite Unite !!!

Obama is supporting Option C. I guess he failed to read your comment in time.

I agree we need to unite. We need to unite on my terms:

WPA-style jobs program
Medicare for all
Repeal the Hyde amendment, oppose Nelson/Stupak
Repeal DOMA, DADT, support gay marriage
U.S. out of Iraq and Afghanistan

If you disagree, you are a wrecker and a splitter.

If she had won, a messy bill would have gotten even messier.

If she had won, the Democratic cultural complacency would have remained in place.

If she had won, the culture of wheeling and dealing would have been endorsed.

If she had won, the foolish effort to create the 60 vote super majority (which is a phantom) would have continued.

If she had won, the possibility of a GOP House and Senate would have been set aside rather than faced.

So what’s changed, with all this grandstanding?

If she had won, we would have had a very poor campaigner with little instinct for the public conversation in the Senate.

Oh, this. What a huuuuuuuuuuuge win.

You are truly delusional. Disclaimer: I am not a Republican or Democrat and have no party affiliation. That said, I find it interesting that Obama True Believers think he has been fighting valiantly to get Real Reform through a recalcitrant Congress. Hardly. He’s gotten exactly the bill he’s wanted. Why else would single-payer have been kept out of the discussion from the beginning and not one representative for that position allowed in the discussions? The litany is endless, from the pharma deal, to the still-born public option, Medicare buy-in dropped, drug re-importation torpedoed. This was the plan all along. There is absolutely no evidence of a strong fight of any kind for any progressive measure and plenty of evidence of actively working against them. Wake up. You, and the country, have been had.

Roughly 12% of Massachusetts’ registered voters are Repubs…

Dems and Obama deserve this loss,because they did not stick to the promises,
Health care reform for insurers,no jobs,bla,bla,bla…etc.i’m pretty sure that half progressives did not not vote in mAsschussets.Virginia,New Jersey
and Massachussets losses in a row.Any way Obama will continue with his false
bipartisanship,2010 will be a debacle for dems.

I think you have the right idea,but it does come down to money does it not. I offer JANE this idea that she should and could not wait for OBAMA to do what is needed. Here is my plan I told her all she needed was 1 million willing progressives/liberals/independents to fork over ten dollars a month for the entire year of 2010 that is ten million dollars a month and total amount of 120 miillion for the year. At the same take out those who have sold us out and replace them who are true progressives and who will fight back. I also told her sparate herself from ACTBLUE and form own separate action group. At the same time start looking for a replacement for OBAMA period. I never got a reponse and while I can appreciate what she does it not enough. The campaign of NED LAMONT is also simliar in nature to what happen in MA. We have five DEM senators and blue dogs and REP to be removed from office. With the right plan and organization in place it can be done what we want to do. By the way we do not need OBAMA HELP and we can do this without him period. I will admit I drank the KOOL AIDE,but not anymore.He is not what he claims to be,but he keeps saying what he going do,but it never gets done. So MA elected a REP so what he is not any different from those in House or Senate in fact he maybe worst what fools are those independents who elected him.

I think you may be right. But, I am beginning to have some doubts about the man’s learning curve. I suspect that he might be thinking that he can take back the last six months. He can’t. That is the route that should have been taken.

We are now in the Fall campaign season. This has to pass quickly or not pass at all. Distance from this bill will give Dems a chance to either sell it or get away from it. The GOP will welcome any chance to further delay the game in order to keep the mess in front of the voters.

I wish Obama would pay attention to thinking outside of his worldview. I worked for his election and I am still please that he is our President, but he needs to get a lot tougher and a lot more realistic.

“Massachusetts Senate Loss to Republicans A BIG WIN for Progressive Dems” – good one, Blue Texan! Really, I wuz hoping there’d be all kinds of good stuff in your commentary. Sad to say, MONEY is STILL the mother’s milk, the life’s blood, the Alpha & Omega of modern politics (at least as DC “Democrats” still practice it) and expecting genuine “leadership” out of the likes of John Kerry, Barack Obama, the two Clintons, and most of the other Senate- and Congress- critters is asking a bit much… especially with one of the GOOD ONES, Senator Dorgan, announcing his retirement… and even the despicable Chris Dodd, also announcing his retirment, trying to SCUTTLE, SABOTAGE a Financial Consumer Affairs Office on his way out the door (to the awaiting REVOLVING DOOR Tom Daschle-esque “not a lobbyist” uber-Lobbyist job.)

The GOOD NEWS is that PROGRESSIVES _ARE_ getting the word out – on the SERIAL BETRAYAL of “liberal” & Democratic voters’ needs – by the Lieberman/Emanuel/Baucus wing of the “Democrat” Party.

The BAD news is, “the word” is still SCATTERED over DOZENS of websites, with NOT ONE major newspaper RELIABLY touting the genuinely progressive, “democratic” vision.

FDL is one of the very best, I like to think that Act-Blue SAVED election 2006
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/11/how-rahm-emanuel-lost-house-for.html
…but we still have a LONG way to go, Obama will probably keep his Emanuel(Rubin/Goldmans-Sachs) Summers “economic team” right up through the impeachment of 2011. (which is increasingly likely, IF Obama DOESN’T DITCH his “of, by, and for Goldman Sachs” gangsters, quick.)

Just as I warned in another thread yesterday, the memes are all lining up toward a push for “moderateness.” The narratives are coalescing (bipartisan deficit commission, no more health bill, lanny davis, evan bayh squawking).

I guess this is where I get to say I told ya so.

There are irreconcilable differences between progressives and centrist dems. There is NO WAY progressives will get their version through Congress. Blue Dogs MUST fulfill their duty to their constituents and represent THE PEOPLE, regardless of their party affiliation. If Indiana or Nebraska voters don’t want a public option, or individual mandates or universal coverage, creating an expensive entitlement that will be a fiscal disaster for our country, if they thwart THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE they will lose their jobs. Do you think a progressive of your ilk could EVER be elected in Indiana or Nebraska?

Of the 11 states likely to have competitive Senate races in November: Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio and Pennsylvania support for health reform varies in these states from a low of 33% in North Dakota to a high of 48% in Nevada. Democrats trail Republicans in six of the states; three are toss-ups; and in two, Democrats have a solid lead.

It’s the health-reform bill that’s to blame for the low poll numbers for Democratic Senate candidates and not just that these are more conservative states. It’s the health-reform bill that’s to blame for the low poll numbers for Democratic Senate candidates and not just that these are more conservative states. The higher the level of opposition to health reform, the greater the likelihood that the state’s voters supported Republicans.

When incumbent Senate and House Democrats return home to campaign this fall, they will be explaining why they voted for a bill that so many of their constituents oppose. Politicians who ignore the wishes of their constituencies will find themselves out of office.

You embarrass yourself.

Interesting.

At the same take out those who have sold us out and replace them who are true progressives and who will fight back.

Where we differ is on the focus on winning races soon. I, of course, am nobody with no money, and Jane could raise big bucks easily. But I don’t think it reduces to that. Once you start talking about winning, you start looking for a credible candidate. Unfortunately, what it takes to be credible is long service in the Democratic Party machine. To win as a progressive, the goal then becomes to calculate just how much to the left of your opponent you have to be IN THE PRIMARY. And it goes downhill from there. You can’t beat this!

Electing younger, slightly more progressive candidates, who then have to continue sliding once in office, is what has kept the Democratic Party functioning at all for so many years. In the absence of infrastructure, there is no way out of this.

But here’s the key. NO AMOUNT OF MONEY translates immediately into infrastructure. Thus my approach appears to be much weaker, but I believe lays a sounder foundation in the long haul.

There is a subjective element here. What would motivate people to carry out the long, slow haul around the 5 points?

WPA-style jobs program
Medicare for all
Repeal the Hyde amendment, oppose Nelson/Stupak
Repeal DOMA, DADT, support gay marriage
U.S. out of Iraq and Afghanistan

Belief. Belief that the above points (or something closely along those lines) are right and necessary, and belief that the American people will ulltimately respond when given the chance.

Wow, enlightening post. About the same measure of petulant arrogance we’ve come to expect from the President. Then there are things like emotional maturity and self awareness, useful qualities to have in a leader. Obama of today is way right of DLC in the 90s, and after yesterday he’ll move further right. But maybe that’s the plan, because as a lifelong minority liberal I still don’t really understand what being a “progressive” means – beyond being an Obama supporter.

There are irreconcilable differences between progressives and centrist dems

typically, thats grounds for divorce, then.

but who even remembers the arranged marriage between the Donkey Party and folks who believe in social justice?

was it after a hot date with John F. Kennedy or something? that was a long time ago.

Good point about Obama. My concern is that the Stupak/Nelson riddled bill is dead for awhile, and we have time to re-group rather than our frenzied racing like hamsters on a treadmill.

It’s interesting to watch those who are screaming how the House has to pass the Senate version NOW even as Obama has yanked the rug out from under them.

Well, I guess it does send a message to the all-too confident Democrats in Congress not to alienate their base anymore – look what happened in the bluest state.

“Well, I guess it does send a message to the all-too confident Democrats in Congress not to alienate their base anymore – look what happened in the bluest state.”

Rahm sez: Fuck ‘em, who else they gonna vote fer? beat beat beat D-oh!

Checking in with various “dem” sites. Lots of talk about “not playing the blame game”, (followed by calls to ram through the Senate HC bill). I love how people rush to say that when they’ve clearly, epically fucked up.

Truly hilarious, especially since their hero Obama is now saying:

Well, here’s , here’s one thing I know and I just want to make sure that this is off the table. The Senate certainly shouldn’t try to jam anything through until Scott Brown is seated. People in Massachusetts spoke. He’s got to be part of that …

I would advise that we try to move quickly to coalesce around those elements of the package that people agree on.

He may be a Wall Street tool, but he’s not as stupid as his followers.

BlueTexan. Not that anything is bad with your post (it’s actually well written, seriously) but the problem with the entire election results is summed up in your first sentence, and then I lost focus :-(

The race for Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat was won

THAT my friend was the problem. They all assumed that it was Dem permanently and now don’t know what to do after the warning shot fired at them.

Please see Ek Hornbeck’s piece over at Docudharma:

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/18716/the-numbers-dont-lie

Also please see the piece I saw Monday:

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/18668/some-anathema-with-which-to-pass-the-time

The idea of letting Brown win was not bereft of strategy, unlike what Blue Texan seems to think.

Wait until people ACT — remember that what progressives say and what they do carry two different appearances, and that the difference is bridged through progressive ideology.

Critical Mass: Dem Agenda Opens Right-Wing Doors‎ – 11 hours ago

The loss, we’re told, is a blow to Barack Obama’s political agenda, and so it is. They say it’s a shame that yet another rightwing zealot who advocates …
Empire Burlesque (blog) – 12 related articles »

Critical Mass: Dem Agenda Opens Right-Wing DoorsJan 20, 2010 … Critical Mass: Dem Agenda Opens Right-Wing Doors · PDF · Print · E-mail … And what is Barack Obama’s agenda? What is his political program …
http://www.chris-floyd.com/…/1907-critical-mass-dem-agenda-opens-right-wing-doors.html – 11 hours ago

You CLEARLY do not live in Massachusetts. Speaking as someone who’s well-versed in the “establishment” democrats, most of them backed Capuano… who would have been a far superior candidate. Some certain supported Coakley, but that’s not why she won the primary. She won the primary because she was the statewide candidate who democratic primary voters were more familiar with. That’s it.

I don’t see how her losing will “help” us, because I don’t think it’s possible for Blue Dogs to learn the critical lesson of which you speak. They’re delusional and/or corporate hacks.

Disclosure: I did not support Coakley in the primary and thought she was a terrible candidate. Her general election campaign only confirmed that. So I’m not exactly a Coakley fanboi… I just don’t think this “helps” us. That’s delusional.

“The idea of letting Brown win was not bereft of strategy, unlike what Blue Texan seems to think.”

there was hope expressed by the more activist left that Brown would win, but as for a strategy, i don’t think there was one. People just voted spontaneously and instinctively against more of the same old DLC bull. If Obama Democrats don’t adjust (i doubt they will forsake Rubinomics 2.0) the next spontaneous expression of peoples disapproval will be in the form of street protests. Rubinomics 2.0 cannot fix the unemployment problem because Rubinomics 1.0 caused it and their 2% base still likes the effects of NAFTA very much. The midterms will be fascinating; we need to seek out and run progressive candidates!

great link, Gitchegumee, my fellow dissident – that is some good samizdat you link to. I especially like the quote:

But there comes a time when you must face the truth – or be lost to truth forever. There comes a time to recognize that the Democratic Party and Republican Party are part of the same corrupted entity. There comes a time to recognize that the Democratic Party’s agenda is not only ruinous in itself, unworthy of the support of anyone who cares about justice, peace, liberty and the pursuit of happiness – it is also empowering those very same loathsome and dangerous Republicans. There comes a time for even the most partisan tribalist (and I have been one) to accept the hard judgment of reality: that the Democratic Party is part of the problem, not the solution.

this is right around the same time that you are ever so strongly tempted to . . . kick and ban all the truthtellers who are disturbing the faithful, being disruptive in the church!

Nice fantasy. But from what I have observed the Democrats have learned nothing in the last 25 years. Last night means they will surrender more, not less. They will capitulate, oh excuse me-compromise on everything. The Republicans win because there are no Democrats left. We can not win anything without representation. Do we have any? Brown is not it. Coakley was not it. So where are we?

Here’s how it helps. We were stuck with a terrible healthcare bill, and it looked like it might pass, if only they could agree on how much women’s abortion rights should be trampled.

Now it’s been whacked, at least for a while, and while the Obamacrats are screaming how the Senate bill has to be rammed down the House’s throat in one bite, Obama himself is saying:

Well, here’s , here’s one thing I know and I just want to make sure that this is off the table. The Senate certainly shouldn’t try to jam anything through until Scott Brown is seated. People in Massachusetts spoke. He’s got to be part of that …

I would advise that we try to move quickly to coalesce around those elements of the package that people agree on.

Particularly the progressive parts. Proving that he is not as stupid as his cheerleaders. This should have been the approach from the gitgo. An evil bill is killed, something better might be passed (no bar on pre-existing conditions, that kind of thing), and we don’t have to keep putting more and more lipstick on the healthcare pig.

BT, inquiring minds want to know, what is the reason for this post? Is that you just want to scold those who didn’t agree with you here, or those awful MA voters? IMHO, it’s their state, so at the end of the day they have the right to decide.

I guess you just didn’t work hard enough to convince people, or Coakley would have won. After all, FDL is so powerful, it contols practically half of the free world. FDL could have swung the MA voters in her favor, you think?

But it’s a time for us to be active in the comments (egregious, PW, etc.) and try to let people know that we’re here and we very much care, even if we have a variety of opinions.

jane, please, comparing MA voters to communists who empowered hitler is not helping and it’s not caring.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/24884

my comment last thread was not an exaggeration.